What I forgot to mention is how fast Framer is updating their platform compared to Webflow. Webflow at this point has a lot of pressure from investors to milk their customers and to think about implementing changes two, three, or four times. Every new development costs money and brings a risk of failure if not implemented properly. That's why Webflow is forced to play the safe game compared to a younger platform like Framer. What Webflow did not figure out until today is to give users a tool that really does not require to think like a developer. Webflow still relies on their users to understand HTML/CSS fu damentals like classes, box-model and even doubles down on that with the custom element feature. Pure designers will always have a hard time building in Webflow compared to Framer which feels basically like Figma.
I like how Framer users always mention “fast updates and new features”, yes that's true, but the reason is framer is a baby in terms of growth rate, while Webflow is more mature. That's why Framer is pushing updates like crazy, because basically, it's still growing, once matured, it won't push updates at the same rate.
I agree about Webflow University - I'm so impressed, educated, and entertained!!! Thank you for sharing your valuable experiences re Webflow vs. Framer.
Ha this had such a great pace to it, no fluff, well done Keegan. All points solid. What I'd add: both teams are solid, both feature rockstars in their respective skill set. Both have quality leadership too. So IMHO investing in either is a safe call (vs other platforms). Then on pricing: that $5/mo Framer Mini with custom domain is very underrated if you want to spin up an idea to get validation (while owning your marketing breadcrumbs, ie. not using a subdomain).
Webflow is the tool for complex tasks that other platforms like Framer struggled with. I've personally had to create multi-step forms and other detailed functionalities in Webflow, then export the code to use in Framer because it couldn't handle them. While both tools cater to different audiences, when it comes to building enterprise-grade websites with intricate features, Webflow is unmatched. If you need reliability and advanced capabilities, it's definitely the top choice in the market.
Love this video. I'm all Webflow but looking to learn Framer for specific clients. One key thing Framer offers which Webflow doesn't, is local pricing. So while the Mini plan may be $5 / month, in Turkiye it's 75 TRL = ~ $2.25 today.
The main reason Framer fails compared to Webflow is Webflow allows you to export your website code. Framer offers one of the best systems for developing a really beautiful website really fast. The problem is everything is locked down inside of Framer's native system. I can't export that code and use it anywhere else because a code export option doesn't exist in framer. From a professional use standpoint, this makes Framer useless.
interesting point! I don't use the export code option as much as I used to though we did just use it recently for a big client who uses a particular LMS. We built everything in Webflow and exported it. Was very useful!
Exactly, if a tool doesn't let you export you're work, your work is not truly yours. There's infinite amount reasons for importance of code export, if your business and needs grow.
Hi! Is using both platforms for different projects a good strategy? I’m more drawn to the UI of Framer, so I’m learning framer first, hoping to fast track a freelance career. But I’m also using Webflow to write my blog and hopefully slowly learn how to use it to build website too. What do you think? Thanks for the helpful video 😊
honestly use the tool that works for you! Better to build something than nothing at all! I like webflow because my clients live there :). I do see them making more enterprise bids (read "bigger wallets") which I appreciate as a freelancer. But that said, if you can deliver great stuff with Framer then go for it!
Awesome video. Thank you. I love Framer how easy it is to work with design wise and their ticker and carousel component that I use a lot. Webflow just feels clunky and "old", but also more flexible. I hate having to choose. :)
haha yea for me the major factor is that the client I want to work with (enterprise) are on Webflow (usually). Framer still a very cool tool. Intrigued by the ticker component you mentioned - going to look in to that. We've got big plans to bring a better carousel experience to Webflow at Finsweet!
I completely agree with you, great video! I still can’t get over the fact that you can only use pixels in Framer, not even REM units.. and don’t get me started on not being able to add a margin.. Framer is a great prototyping tool, not a development tool.
Actually, it’s exactly the opposite. You have much more firepower in Framer when you work with code components. You can create a text component that adjusts in size based on ‘em’ or ‘rem’ in just a few minutes if you want. The difference between Framer and Webflow is that its interface replicates exactly the way you create layouts in Figma.
@@CarlosGomesCabral I kindly disagree. Having to manually add the ability to choose REM/EM/VW/etc for a single component is impossible to build a big website project with. You should be able to choose all CSS units natively. Also, in no world am I going to reach out to custom code for a simple basic CSS feature such as adding margin to html elements. If I would want to do that, I would simply build a project in Next.js
Personally I can see why Framer is interesting for specific kind of users. And I like that they clearly are doing things their own way, which is only great for the whole no-code community. For me Framer's biggest drawback is seemingly lack of scalability and which type of website content it seems to be geared towards. For me i can't see any how any of my clients could have their needs filled by the current state of Framer. And as you mention yourself, you more often than not need to do some kind of custom coding. And for me the selling point about not needing to know code is doing their users a big disservice. Sure you can build faster, but as soon as you get more serious with your work, then you are properly going to need to learn some kind of coding anyways.
That's why Framer has an integrated coding environment, where you write React code for creating more complex components when necessary. From this perspective, Framer is even more advanced as it uses a more modern development ecosystem compared to Webflow, which is still based on jQuery.
@@CarlosGomesCabral I get your point, and sure React is more modern(newer) but saying that one is better than the other is to simplify the question a bit. They are to different tools which is built with different approaches in mind. Just like Framer and Webflow are. And just like any tools, you can build a lot of things with the same tools but some are more optimized for specific tasks. All in all as a Webflow user and a fan of the whole no code community, i'm more than happy that we have a serious competitor to Webflow. I think that in the end both Framer and Webflow will become stronger by pushing each other to do better.
@@and2good2 Of course! I'm not saying that one tool is better than the other. I was just answering your comment about not being able to add custom code. Since they don't promote this aspect of the tool much, it might seem like Framer is meant for kids, when in fact, it's an extremely modern tool. Competition is always good and ensures that all platforms continue to evolve. We are the ones who benefit 🙂
I zoom in on my recorded videos to try and make it better for the viewer. When I'm not recording it's zoomed out a bit so I think there's enough real estate... I just have always used a laptop though I don't know lol. I do have a second monitor but I don't use it very often.
I'm mostly curious about the class option not being included in Framer. Thats hard to believe. Building a section with multiple cards and reusing the cards in different pages quickly makes building and editing this a drag. Furthermore i am super curious to start using Framer and it might be more like a and/and relationship, instead of either/or.
Personally I love the managed hosting … I was self hosting a ghost blog for a long time and it was such a pain. Happy to pay for that these days but I can’t totally understand the desire to self host.
Your example of using classes to organize layouts in Framer is biased by the way you do it in Webflow. In Framer, you have something much more powerful: Components and variants. Moreover, it’s the same solution that a Figma designer (Framer’s target audience) would also use to solve this issue. If you still prefer to use classes to organize your layouts, you have Code Overrides as an alternative. To work with Framer, you need to adjust your mindset on how modern projects based on React are organized around components.
Using components is not even in the ballpark of being the same thing as using classes. Components are for reusable layouts, classes are for reusable styles. Imho you should be able to use both :)
@@corneromme But Framer allows you to reuse styles and variables to organize your layout, and each style can have a light and dark mode version. You are looking at the tool from the perspective of how things are traditionally done in code. However, the proposal of Framer is to be a Figma on steroids. The tool offers you resources to organize your layout as intuitively as the traditional model, and this has been evolving even more over time. There has been absolutely no scenario for me where I needed to use classes instead of creating styles, components, or variants. That's the beauty of Framer. And, as I've already said, you can easily use traditional classes through Code Overrides 🙂
There is a reason why Webflow offers both components AND classes. Webflow components are more powerful than framer components and they still offer both, why? Because they let you do different things. Classes let you share multiple styles for different elements that use the same class. It’s incredibly powerful. Components are meant to hold multiple elements to create reusable layouts, components have nothing to do with styles. Oh, and as far as code overrides in Framer: yes pretty cool, but you’d need to understand react first. Not beginner friendly at all.
@@corneromme Hmmmm, but then we end up mixing things up. Because Webflow is not at all beginner-friendly for those who don’t know much about coding. Framer addresses this by allowing a designer who is familiar with Figma to build complex websites without having to write ANY code. The coding part is for more advanced users who wish to extend the capabilities of the tool. In Framer, you can even create a component in code and allow a novice user to alter its parameters and visual aspects directly through the interface. This is VERY powerful and one of the main distinguishing features of Framer in my opinion.
Nice points guys - thanks for sharing! I think I should have shared a bit more about components and variants in the video so appreciate the nod to these.
Absolutely agree with you, Keegan! I love Webflow, and it is undeniably the best overall tool on the market. I find it kinda funny that even though Webflow claims that you don’t need to write code in their headline, they still use a lot of custom code on their homepage, lol.
lol yes at some point I'm assuming they must have deliberating chosen a very specific brand identify (did you read their blog article on motion design systems?) that required it.
Hello there. I started building a site in Tilda. I recently switched to Framer because Webflow seemed too complicated. But the CMS in the framer is very simple and has few filters. Where would you recommend learning Webflow? Edit: Do I need to know Html/Css to learn webflow again? if yes where can i study. Lately, the projects given by the clients are getting complicated and my lack of coding knowledge is showing up:( Thanks for answers!
Webflow University is my favorite resource, aside from my own Webflow 201 of course! You don't need to know HTML and CSS but some general knowledge would help for sure.
The first thing that puts me off from webflow is, where is the infinite canvas? Its such an obvious thing to have from a design point of view. Entering webflow, you are literally stuck on one screen in full 100% zoom. No room to move around. No freedom to ideate. Its feels so limiting and restrictive, and is really counter intuitive for a designer. Framer provides you the infinite canvas just like Figma, Sketch, and pretty much any other modern ui/ux tool. Where you can place things around your screen, move them freely, discard them, choose what to keep and what not, iterate etc. Webflow seems like when you have pretty much done everything in another tool, and just want to convert that design into a real website, knowing exactly what item to place where. There is no room for ideation.
good point ... I do really love an infinite canvas, esp. for iterating on designs. You are correct, Webflow does lock us into a Figma -> Webflow flow which could definitely be time consuming!
They append a unique id to make everything scoped, which can actually be pretty slick and is a great way to handle small apps and sites. It was all the rage with React scoped components for a long time until til tailwind caught its uh…. Tailwind :) now it’s all utility classes.
Hey, I really like your video but I think your knowledge on framer and the features it has to offer is limited. Framer does abstract a lot of it's complexity from the users but if you really dive into it, it has everything you need comparable to webflow and more. I think that framer offers a new way of doing things, a solution that you don't really need to learn HTML or have any coding knowledge in general to build websites as a designer. That said I am still going to learn Webflow because I think It is a great tool to add to my arsenal.
I’m sure there’s plenty for me to uncover but I tried to be comprehensive with niche things I like to do in Webflow and see how it’s possible in Framer. Thank you for the thoughtful comment!
Framer is a great tool, don't get me wrong. But compared to Webflow it lacks a ton of native features. Especially in the CMS department. When you talk about Framer having more features then Webflow, what are you talking about exactly?
I can't find a reason to disagree with you, because there isn't one. It is enough for them to upgrade two things - *cms and grid*. At least for a start. Funny P.S. After watching the video, TH-cam offered me a video called "Switching from Webflow to Framer" :) anyway, thanks for the content ✌🏼
Can you break down where we should start in Webflow University? The tutorials seem cluttered and there’s no clear process, so I'm unsure where to begin.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
Webflow needs to get the canvas like framer and figma with all breakpoints
What I forgot to mention is how fast Framer is updating their platform compared to Webflow.
Webflow at this point has a lot of pressure from investors to milk their customers and to think about implementing changes two, three, or four times. Every new development costs money and brings a risk of failure if not implemented properly.
That's why Webflow is forced to play the safe game compared to a younger platform like Framer.
What Webflow did not figure out until today is to give users a tool that really does not require to think like a developer. Webflow still relies on their users to understand HTML/CSS fu damentals like classes, box-model and even doubles down on that with the custom element feature.
Pure designers will always have a hard time building in Webflow compared to Framer which feels basically like Figma.
I know it was a typo, but I really like the sound of CSS-fu
I like how Framer users always mention “fast updates and new features”, yes that's true, but the reason is framer is a baby in terms of growth rate, while Webflow is more mature.
That's why Framer is pushing updates like crazy, because basically, it's still growing, once matured, it won't push updates at the same rate.
I agree about Webflow University - I'm so impressed, educated, and entertained!!! Thank you for sharing your valuable experiences re Webflow vs. Framer.
Glad it was helpful!
Ha this had such a great pace to it, no fluff, well done Keegan. All points solid. What I'd add: both teams are solid, both feature rockstars in their respective skill set. Both have quality leadership too. So IMHO investing in either is a safe call (vs other platforms). Then on pricing: that $5/mo Framer Mini with custom domain is very underrated if you want to spin up an idea to get validation (while owning your marketing breadcrumbs, ie. not using a subdomain).
well said 🤝
Webflow is the tool for complex tasks that other platforms like Framer struggled with. I've personally had to create multi-step forms and other detailed functionalities in Webflow, then export the code to use in Framer because it couldn't handle them. While both tools cater to different audiences, when it comes to building enterprise-grade websites with intricate features, Webflow is unmatched. If you need reliability and advanced capabilities, it's definitely the top choice in the market.
Love this video. I'm all Webflow but looking to learn Framer for specific clients. One key thing Framer offers which Webflow doesn't, is local pricing. So while the Mini plan may be $5 / month, in Turkiye it's 75 TRL = ~ $2.25 today.
good to know! I didn't know that.
All in Webflow, baby!
I couldn't agree with your conclusions more. Way to balance the scale on this topic!
The main reason Framer fails compared to Webflow is Webflow allows you to export your website code.
Framer offers one of the best systems for developing a really beautiful website really fast. The problem is everything is locked down inside of Framer's native system.
I can't export that code and use it anywhere else because a code export option doesn't exist in framer.
From a professional use standpoint, this makes Framer useless.
interesting point! I don't use the export code option as much as I used to though we did just use it recently for a big client who uses a particular LMS. We built everything in Webflow and exported it. Was very useful!
Exactly, if a tool doesn't let you export you're work, your work is not truly yours. There's infinite amount reasons for importance of code export, if your business and needs grow.
Hi! Is using both platforms for different projects a good strategy? I’m more drawn to the UI of Framer, so I’m learning framer first, hoping to fast track a freelance career.
But I’m also using Webflow to write my blog and hopefully slowly learn how to use it to build website too.
What do you think? Thanks for the helpful video 😊
honestly use the tool that works for you! Better to build something than nothing at all!
I like webflow because my clients live there :). I do see them making more enterprise bids (read "bigger wallets") which I appreciate as a freelancer. But that said, if you can deliver great stuff with Framer then go for it!
Awesome video. Thank you. I love Framer how easy it is to work with design wise and their ticker and carousel component that I use a lot. Webflow just feels clunky and "old", but also more flexible. I hate having to choose. :)
haha yea for me the major factor is that the client I want to work with (enterprise) are on Webflow (usually). Framer still a very cool tool.
Intrigued by the ticker component you mentioned - going to look in to that.
We've got big plans to bring a better carousel experience to Webflow at Finsweet!
Can you explain more about the Workspace plan of Webflow and show how that works?
I'll add it to video list thanks for the suggestion.
I completely agree with you, great video!
I still can’t get over the fact that you can only use pixels in Framer, not even REM units.. and don’t get me started on not being able to add a margin..
Framer is a great prototyping tool, not a development tool.
Actually, it’s exactly the opposite. You have much more firepower in Framer when you work with code components. You can create a text component that adjusts in size based on ‘em’ or ‘rem’ in just a few minutes if you want.
The difference between Framer and Webflow is that its interface replicates exactly the way you create layouts in Figma.
@@CarlosGomesCabral I kindly disagree. Having to manually add the ability to choose REM/EM/VW/etc for a single component is impossible to build a big website project with. You should be able to choose all CSS units natively.
Also, in no world am I going to reach out to custom code for a simple basic CSS feature such as adding margin to html elements. If I would want to do that, I would simply build a project in Next.js
The margin can actually be controlled in Framer by using the Padding option.
You actually can control the margin In Framer its called Padding function.
@@zoharmoyal nope, you can't. Paddings and margins are 2 completely different things.
Personally I can see why Framer is interesting for specific kind of users. And I like that they clearly are doing things their own way, which is only great for the whole no-code community. For me Framer's biggest drawback is seemingly lack of scalability and which type of website content it seems to be geared towards. For me i can't see any how any of my clients could have their needs filled by the current state of Framer.
And as you mention yourself, you more often than not need to do some kind of custom coding. And for me the selling point about not needing to know code is doing their users a big disservice. Sure you can build faster, but as soon as you get more serious with your work, then you are properly going to need to learn some kind of coding anyways.
That's why Framer has an integrated coding environment, where you write React code for creating more complex components when necessary. From this perspective, Framer is even more advanced as it uses a more modern development ecosystem compared to Webflow, which is still based on jQuery.
@@CarlosGomesCabral I get your point, and sure React is more modern(newer) but saying that one is better than the other is to simplify the question a bit. They are to different tools which is built with different approaches in mind. Just like Framer and Webflow are. And just like any tools, you can build a lot of things with the same tools but some are more optimized for specific tasks.
All in all as a Webflow user and a fan of the whole no code community, i'm more than happy that we have a serious competitor to Webflow. I think that in the end both Framer and Webflow will become stronger by pushing each other to do better.
@@and2good2 Of course! I'm not saying that one tool is better than the other. I was just answering your comment about not being able to add custom code. Since they don't promote this aspect of the tool much, it might seem like Framer is meant for kids, when in fact, it's an extremely modern tool.
Competition is always good and ensures that all platforms continue to evolve. We are the ones who benefit 🙂
Curious why you always record on a laptop, not a monitor. Doesn't the near tablet-width canvas get frustrating to work in?
I zoom in on my recorded videos to try and make it better for the viewer. When I'm not recording it's zoomed out a bit so I think there's enough real estate... I just have always used a laptop though I don't know lol. I do have a second monitor but I don't use it very often.
I'm mostly curious about the class option not being included in Framer. Thats hard to believe. Building a section with multiple cards and reusing the cards in different pages quickly makes building and editing this a drag. Furthermore i am super curious to start using Framer and it might be more like a and/and relationship, instead of either/or.
They use components and variants a la Figma as a way to create reusable elements
I adore webflow sites, but I just don't know if I can get behind not being able to self-host
Code export! But yea it does leave some to be desired.
Personally I love the managed hosting … I was self hosting a ghost blog for a long time and it was such a pain. Happy to pay for that these days but I can’t totally understand the desire to self host.
nice! but you didn't mention components and variables of Framer, absolutely important features of the platform
Yes, you are right
Your example of using classes to organize layouts in Framer is biased by the way you do it in Webflow. In Framer, you have something much more powerful: Components and variants. Moreover, it’s the same solution that a Figma designer (Framer’s target audience) would also use to solve this issue.
If you still prefer to use classes to organize your layouts, you have Code Overrides as an alternative.
To work with Framer, you need to adjust your mindset on how modern projects based on React are organized around components.
Using components is not even in the ballpark of being the same thing as using classes. Components are for reusable layouts, classes are for reusable styles.
Imho you should be able to use both :)
@@corneromme But Framer allows you to reuse styles and variables to organize your layout, and each style can have a light and dark mode version. You are looking at the tool from the perspective of how things are traditionally done in code. However, the proposal of Framer is to be a Figma on steroids. The tool offers you resources to organize your layout as intuitively as the traditional model, and this has been evolving even more over time. There has been absolutely no scenario for me where I needed to use classes instead of creating styles, components, or variants. That's the beauty of Framer.
And, as I've already said, you can easily use traditional classes through Code Overrides 🙂
There is a reason why Webflow offers both components AND classes. Webflow components are more powerful than framer components and they still offer both, why? Because they let you do different things.
Classes let you share multiple styles for different elements that use the same class. It’s incredibly powerful. Components are meant to hold multiple elements to create reusable layouts, components have nothing to do with styles.
Oh, and as far as code overrides in Framer: yes pretty cool, but you’d need to understand react first. Not beginner friendly at all.
@@corneromme Hmmmm, but then we end up mixing things up. Because Webflow is not at all beginner-friendly for those who don’t know much about coding. Framer addresses this by allowing a designer who is familiar with Figma to build complex websites without having to write ANY code. The coding part is for more advanced users who wish to extend the capabilities of the tool.
In Framer, you can even create a component in code and allow a novice user to alter its parameters and visual aspects directly through the interface. This is VERY powerful and one of the main distinguishing features of Framer in my opinion.
Nice points guys - thanks for sharing!
I think I should have shared a bit more about components and variants in the video so appreciate the nod to these.
Hello ! I liked the fighters images, where did you get it ?
I made it with midjourney!
Absolutely agree with you, Keegan! I love Webflow, and it is undeniably the best overall tool on the market.
I find it kinda funny that even though Webflow claims that you don’t need to write code in their headline, they still use a lot of custom code on their homepage, lol.
lol yes at some point I'm assuming they must have deliberating chosen a very specific brand identify (did you read their blog article on motion design systems?) that required it.
Hello there. I started building a site in Tilda. I recently switched to Framer because Webflow seemed too complicated. But the CMS in the framer is very simple and has few filters. Where would you recommend learning Webflow?
Edit: Do I need to know Html/Css to learn webflow again? if yes where can i study. Lately, the projects given by the clients are getting complicated and my lack of coding knowledge is showing up:(
Thanks for answers!
Webflow University is my favorite resource, aside from my own Webflow 201 of course!
You don't need to know HTML and CSS but some general knowledge would help for sure.
The first thing that puts me off from webflow is, where is the infinite canvas? Its such an obvious thing to have from a design point of view. Entering webflow, you are literally stuck on one screen in full 100% zoom. No room to move around. No freedom to ideate. Its feels so limiting and restrictive, and is really counter intuitive for a designer. Framer provides you the infinite canvas just like Figma, Sketch, and pretty much any other modern ui/ux tool. Where you can place things around your screen, move them freely, discard them, choose what to keep and what not, iterate etc. Webflow seems like when you have pretty much done everything in another tool, and just want to convert that design into a real website, knowing exactly what item to place where. There is no room for ideation.
good point ... I do really love an infinite canvas, esp. for iterating on designs. You are correct, Webflow does lock us into a Figma -> Webflow flow which could definitely be time consuming!
Been using Webflow since early 2022. I’m too neck deep to leave now
hahahaha same. honestly it's where my desired clients are these days too :)
Dang someone is STIRRING UP THE POT
👹
how its possible framer doesnt have class manager? omg
They append a unique id to make everything scoped, which can actually be pretty slick and is a great way to handle small apps and sites. It was all the rage with React scoped components for a long time until til tailwind caught its uh…. Tailwind :) now it’s all utility classes.
@@webbae I actually love working with scoped styles in combination with the power of CSS, but having the option to use classes is a must have imo..
Hey, I really like your video but I think your knowledge on framer and the features it has to offer is limited. Framer does abstract a lot of it's complexity from the users but if you really dive into it, it has everything you need comparable to webflow and more. I think that framer offers a new way of doing things, a solution that you don't really need to learn HTML or have any coding knowledge in general to build websites as a designer. That said I am still going to learn Webflow because I think It is a great tool to add to my arsenal.
I’m sure there’s plenty for me to uncover but I tried to be comprehensive with niche things I like to do in Webflow and see how it’s possible in Framer. Thank you for the thoughtful comment!
@@webbae yes
true
Framer is a great tool, don't get me wrong. But compared to Webflow it lacks a ton of native features. Especially in the CMS department.
When you talk about Framer having more features then Webflow, what are you talking about exactly?
I can't find a reason to disagree with you, because there isn't one. It is enough for them to upgrade two things - *cms and grid*. At least for a start.
Funny P.S. After watching the video, TH-cam offered me a video called "Switching from Webflow to Framer" :)
anyway, thanks for the content ✌🏼
glad you liked. its a wonderful tool but Webflow is where my ideal client's reside!
As a Framer user, i can say with confidence that the CMS is garbage. Other than that its pretty cool :)
Always glad to get some validation (regarding CMS)
It’s a cool tool and I can see why people love it for sure!
Imagine not knowing about Ryu. 6:31
😆
AVOID THE FOMO and GET OUTTA MOM'S BASEMENT! No rent, just bills is a sweet life tho!
No rent? Just bills?!? 😆
I tried Framer, didn't like it at all.
stuck in our ways 🤣
framer just sucks bad
lol it's a cool tool - just not the one I choose :)
Can you break down where we should start in Webflow University? The tutorials seem cluttered and there’s no clear process, so I'm unsure where to begin.
Howdy! 🤠 peep this!
www.patreon.com/posts/91794479?
@@webbae you got it 🤙🏻