To watch all future "Best Of" videos, please check out my other channel, BlooperSphoof2. This will be where all the future videos are uploaded to. th-cam.com/channels/mnH4c0Cd4lcciN6YICwPFg.html
The way Razer celebrated its victories by raising its srimech wings to the crowd like a gladiator receiving the cheers of the people was always awesome.
The core weapons of Tornado have been destroyed. While the Raser did not get anything but a few minor scratches in some of the accessories. The game ended with Tornado putting it in the hole ... I think the Raser team is the winner
Tornado was not in the pit, it was suspended above the pit by Razer. If Razer simply released and backed away it would have won - but it didnt. Tornado also dominated the whole fight bar the last 30 seconds, which is why it won.
@@Garfie489 "dominated". You mean had their spinner absolutely destroyed and reduced to nothing but pushing because they had 0 backup weapons. Razor turned that piece of shit into nothing but a box with wheels in the end.
@@lizgayle14 a battering ram is also a very simple but effective design. and all that razor does is engage, push down, pull to pit win. an enemy told them also what they will do against it.. so i think it was fair. Razor is so low it can not be liftet from front, and its nimble so it cand be outrun easy. seems also like a very hard amour so blunt force (dead metals saw did not a scratch to the wing) so how u defeat such an enemy? only with something new... so it no cheating. and anti pit devise.. yes, but let him down there so he dont touch the ground with a wheel and he can not move and get a count out.....
The Razer Tornado fight is still one of big controversy... cause even though it was technically within the rule set, Tornado had lost its main weapon and had many dents and damage on its frame. Not to mention Razer could have easily left him there and it would have been dam near impossible for Tornado to get out. Which would have meant a count out, which sucks that it was not in consideration.
Honestly I don't understand why this debate has lasted so long. The last chance rumble judges decision (The closest equivalent I could think of) was controversial for like a year and then it died down but after nearly 2 decades people still argue about whether or not this was cheating and who should have won.
@@thomasleifNo, the commentator is Jonathan Pearce who is now a football commentator for the BBC. You're thinking of the host, Craig Charles, who plays Dave Lister in Red Dwarf. (I'm a RD fan!)
Nah fuck that, Tornado was in the pit. Anti-pit device? Give me a break, getting the opponent in the pit is a KO cuz it shows that you're just better than them, you can't just build a giant fence around the bot so it's literally impossible because of size lool
Blooper Sphoof It's not about tornado team, it's about judging. tornado's weapon was destroyed, and robot ended the fight immobilized over the pit. while razer's weapon was still functioning. for me - it's a heroic comeback, not a defeat. razor's fights in this video were thrilling unlike almost all other robot fights I've seen. Powerful though vulnerable. slow, but devastating weapon. one mistake - and inevitable painful death awaits. that was a great show! it was the most drama-filled robot competition I've ever seen! not just running around flipping one another until i die of boredom. not scratching each other with useless saws or toothpicks, ramming in walls without any visible effect. It was a fight with taking risks of being flipped to death - for the possibility of a spectacular destruction of a foe btw this robot is just beatiful!
I remember watching this and shouting at the TV about tornados frame unfortunately the legendary Razer lost what a shame we will never see anything like the original robot wars again.
Sarg ent they wouldve been able to be suspended over the pit, not that it ecen matters. Seriously why is an anti crusher cage not ok, but anti spinner configs, special upper armor, and the nuts gaurd a ok to you people. Double standards much?
Tornado was really well equipped, they were dominating the whole fight in-till the end. No matter how you look at it judges decision or not, Razer won by immobilising Tornado over the pit. Even If the fight carried on for indefinitely there was no way for Tornado to carry on fighting. All for the TV ratings!
Nah, Razor would have had to release Tornado and back off, and if Tornado stayed stuck over the pit then it was out. They couldn't release them though, they were just holding them in place. Tornado won fair and square, being a salty Razer fanboi won't change this I'm afraid :).
@@matthewrusshow was it cheating? It was approved by the judges and everyone else on set and the Razer team knew beforehand too, so they could make an anti-anti-Razer attachment attachment. It could very easily get stuck on top of the pit and get counted out, but that never happened so it’s fair. I’ve never seen anyone get mad about robots like Bombshell from Battlebots reboot, which had wildly differing attachments, which included a horizontal spinning blade that could adjust its height during a fight. If you’re comparing this to the bike rack Hydra used against Huge, this fight is different too. Tornado still used its primary weapon and them improvised when it broke. Hydra never once used its primary weapon. Oh yeah. And if it didn’t fit in the pit at all, how was it allowed if it broke the rules?
@@matthewruss This. Simple fact is judges shouldn't have allowed it. Shows you how desperate they were for a fight of equals, when nothing could touch Razer.
Sure razer got pounded but they would have put tornado in the pit if not for the frame. Which counts as a knockout if I'm not mistaken? In my book razer won :/
In that regards, whoever dreamt up the rules needs to be shot and hung. Seriously, Why not just create a robot that's a solid flat block with no weapons that stretches out over the pit, whos vitals are kept dead center of the entire bot. You'd never get disabled, you'd never get counted out, you'd never be able to be flipped, and you'd never be able to fit through the ring-out area. But hey, so long as it's regulation size right? So long as it's in the rules that it has to be within this size... If it can't fit in the pit, shouldn't be allowed.
Tornadoes ring weighed very little relative to the rest of the machine. It's not a question of rules, it's a question of sportsmanship, and the design is an unsporting adaption. Also, this series had rules that were also to improve the viewing spectacle.....that battle was frustrating.
Razer put all of its eggs into one basket. They knew the rules and knew that they could go up against someone with a "cage" around them at any point in time. Tornado was simply the first to pull it off effectively.
Razer was surgical targeting the wheels or other crucial internals and using all the arena hazards Plus it was nice of Terrorhurtz team to make it clear so we could see what Razer was doing XD
In the end Tornado was always a cheater. Just a pushing box with 0 ground clearence. Almost impossible to beat by other designs, cause it would always win by judges decision just because of the pushing power
@@stiemerrrsskino Ohh so they always cheated just because they built a bot with no design flaws to it. So your saying teams should build less than ideal robots with weaknesses just because they beat Razer.
@@wisewolftony well I can understand their choice for the design, cause it was efficient and within the rules, but I think it rendered a lot of other designs with cool weapons almost useless. I think Tornado's succes was actually the beginning of the end of the show.
@@stiemerrrsskino To me the end of the show was series 7 where they allowed in a bunch of robots that had no right being in the competition due to the fact that they had my heats than ever before. So it resulted in so many episodes where you would getting nothing but a bunch of shit fights with literally nothing at all interesting happening at all. I mean to me Razer was no different than Tornado just a machine that was built to take advantage of the rules and arena. I mean with the rules they were allowed to just get in one bite while keeping the opponent on their wedge when meant they couldn't escape and were allowed to pierce into machine let go for a second and pierce them again and do that for the entire fight if they wanted to or just hit the pit and dump them in their. So many of Razers fights were just that and nothing else. I mean Battlebots during the same period had tons and tons of four wheel drive wedge bots that were just like Tornado yet very few of them would actually win it all. Due to the fact that their were machines that had designs that were good enough to combat them. Either having spinners so powerful that it didn't matter like Ziggo and Hazard or just having a wedge in front of their own machine that could counter the other teams wedge. I mean Battlebots had Hazard a nasty spinner who for the first 4 seasons was undefeated 17-0 winning the first 4 middleweight championships. Until it met T-Minus which was a flipper who decided to add a few extra inches to their flipper arm which allowed them to get a flip in on Harzard and be the first and only robot ever to beat them. Which to me is no different than what Tornado did in this fight which was add on something to your machine that can help you counter the other team.
Difference being it was still able to go in the pit. Rules are one thing, but the spirit of robot wars is something else completely. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. To be frank, it's poor sportsmanship on tornadoes part, they deserve the hate.
DunkdaHunk theyd easily be able to be suspended over which counts as in for all tense and purposes. Honestly i dont get this whole thing though, anti crasher cage:no but special upper armor, nuts gaurd and anti spinner configurations are a ok?
Tornado rails should have counted as defensive.While its spinner attack.Both didnt do damage but Tornado rails were dent in like a motherfker.Thus Razer should have won.For more damage on Tornado since its spinner stopped also
7:44 - The sheer power of Growler's drivetrain here....pushes Cyrax and Razer around like they are nothing. I wish we'd have seen more of Growler at maximum attack... I recall one episode where I think it was Dominator 2 who went into a CPZ on the opposite side of the arena, and Growler came FLYING at it, smashed into the back of Dominator 2 and later they found the impact had split the chassis....
Tornado was cheating. Should not have been allowed to have that additional frame. Weapon switch is one thing but that frame was cheating not just against Razer but all the area tools like pit and grinders but also house robots.
For fairness, the front frame should have been allowed for weapon mounting, but not the whole side/rear. these frames served no other purpose than "anti-weapon system" which isn't a weapon switch whatsoever
@Joel WW the difference is you actually intend to use the mods as weapons. purely defensive measures were a different story, werent they? Can you really argue that the frame that is big enough to keep razer from getting close, with a completely ineffective weapon was TRULY made to be used as a weapon against razer?
Razer vs Tornado is about as entertaining as this type of thing gets. A dominant champion who rarely had any trouble suddenly getting pushed around by a robot designed specifically to stop them with its huge extra frame. Razor gets pushed around all fight but finally somehow gets enough grip to pick Tornado up and carry it to the pit only to find it's simply too big to fit in.
I'm from the states, but I went to a summer camp at my museum teaching kids about robotics in the 2000s and every day at lunch they put on VHS recordings of Robot Wars. It's been my favorite version of robot combat shows ever since.
Tornado should not have been allowed to make their frame so large that it wouldn't even fit in the pit! It caused an unfair advantage to have it that large and the crowd agreed, did you hear the booing? To improve Razer then should try finding ways to speed him up. Other, newer robots can run circles around him, but he will always be the best!
I just realized that if Razer had driven forward LITERALLY ONE MORE INCH, the corner of Tornado's body would have caught on the wall of the pit and it would have unhooked Razer's beak and Tornado would have been pitted. DAMMIT!!!
@@OneBiasedOpinion Asd ons again best robot!! because tornado is stupid as fuc*** ***** and cant win whitout chesting.. cant fint in the pit. Razer weapon was.still working.. Tornado weapon was broken.
SS irespawn no they were not. Suspended over the pit and done for. As for being anticrush what about special upper armor? Or nuts gaurd? Or anti spinner wedges? Or changing your blade?
Im a huge fan of razor but they fought like shit that round with tornado, they kept the hook in the air pretty much the whole fight when it shouldve been really low to try and snag that shitty frame of tornado and flip it over or drag it to the house bots like dead metal who could probably fuck that frame up with its claws
It is a difficult decision, but, throwing inside the pit is instant victory, which Razer made! It just dont dropped inside because of the robot size. I feel it was not fair.
Well, if you take a look, tornado's body is in the pit. This should be counted because he couldn't move. Nor was he stuck. He was technically in the pit. Also, they should create a rule so that you an ACTUALLY get in the pit. Lastly, when the judges were viewing the bots, (36:29) its almost as if Razor didn't have a scratch. Basically, I just think that Razor should of won.
Its not in the pit because Razer is still holding onto it - its suspending it above the pit. For example, Wild Thing done the same against Chaos 2 - the pit smoke even went off. But because Wild Thing was suspending Chaos 2 above the pit it wasnt in the pit. All Razer had to do was release Tornado and back away and itd have won.
Garfie489 well it was also stuck to the cage somehow, also he said anti pit device despite the fact that it really wasnt, and it sure as hell wasnt intended to be an apd
well.. in the pit or not: if the Razer team would have been smart and skilled enough they could have just placed Tornado right in the middle of the pit so all wheels are in the air -unable to move, it should be KO after the 10 sec?!
Thats some major BS. Even with a cheating mod, razer still managed to pit tornado. This fight is like watching a 10 yo playing tennis with a bigger racket than the rest of the kids. Loses by elimination, then ends up winning because daddy owns the sport club. Razer serves. Its a good one. Tornado returns....its into the nets. POINT TORNADO
I was lucky to see this live on 2 occasion and got to meet Craig Charles both times, that was amazing as I was such a big Red Dwarf as well, he was such a cool guy amazing with the fans, and getting to see the action live was so cool, just remember being in shock with how big the robots are in real life specially the house robots, fondly remember all the battles fantastic time 🤟🏻
Pros: - Scorpion like Design - Wedges to prevent immobile in sides - Scorpion Stinger that pierces Metal, Free Damage! - Felt the top of Competitive than other Wedge tankbot or Wedge flippers - House Robots felt concerned and threatened fighting this Cons: - Getting flipped - Needs to get closer range - Slow attacks - Hates spinners - Hates Nets
I do actually class Razer as a 2 time uk champion because tornado was 80% in the pit and because tornado added the frame they should be over the weight limit anyway
@Pope Leo X Refbot was supposed to free Razor. Razor wasn't immobilised, it was jammed in place. Being jammed against arena hazards or stuck by being wedges doesn't count. You have to be put in a position where your wheels can't gain purchase OR are actually, genuinely, immobilised. Refbot was actually designed specifically for checking the mobility of a robot via nudges and ensuring it's genuine and not because of arena's hazards "pinning" it. It also has the fire extinguisher for safety use as a number of robots burst into flames in the past and put the crew at risk.
I’m still mad about that final. If your robot didn’t fit in the pit, it should have been illegal and besides they had no mobility so should have been instant ko. I refuse to recognise tornado as champions
what tornado did with the frame is just BS. Razor won hands down, the moment Tornado was fully on the pit should have counted and they should have been DQ'd for it
I will never understand how tornado was able to have an extension that wouldn’t fit into the pit razor was all over them and ready to go into the pit but wouldn’t fall My favourite of all time the slow crunching crushing beak of destruction It’s a shame robot wars folded Battle bots could learn so much The commentator the in house bots I Miss puppy (growler) The Mel lay at the beginning the pit The battle bots just ordinary compared to robot wars The ref it’s just so much more polished Can’t someone resurrect it I know tombstone is suppose to be unbeatable with that massive bar at the front But I back razors driving skill and his crushing beak of doom Also notice no flippers in battle bots some of the flippers in robot wars were ferocious
Man. The bots in the reboot of Battlebots are way more powerful and interesting than almost any robot wars robots. Look at modern Chomp. A 500lb beast with a turret hammer and six legs with an AI targeting system. Dude, we even have a Battlebots equivalent to Razer in Quantum. Deep Six was insane, Huge is basically the ideal design of a Gabriel-type robot, Cobalt and Riptide are absolutely shredding everyone and everything. We’ve got bots like Fusion that are a combo of two different types of weapons. Really weird designs like Starchild and Horizon. We have an innovative design in Ripperoni that uses a counter rotating flywheel to counteract any gyro caused by their weapon, giving them insane maneuverability (see their fight against copperhead). There are even rumors of a fully autonomous robot coming to it in the form of Orbitron. Also, no flippers in Battlebots? Uh, Hydra and Banshee would beg to differ. And look at Blip. It’s basically a Robot Wars flipper, but on some serious steroids. Unlimited flips and can flip 250lbs 20 feet in the air with ease.
Blooper Sphoof 'Using the rules to your advantage' is just a much worse form of cheating, though. If you gotta pore through the rulebook to bullshit up a loophole you can use to win the match, it's a pretty good sign you lost at whatever the actual point of the contest was. Notice that the show isn't called Rules Lawyer Wars.
So explain to me how a "poorly designed" bot managed to shunt Razer around like a sack of confetti? I understand you've got a favorite, but sometimes even the best bots get bad breaks. And Tornado clearly had more raw power than Razer did regardless. Besides, it can't be cheating if the judges took a look at the thing BEFORE THE FIGHT and said "yeah, it's ok."
My view on it is that it's unsporting and against the spirit of the competition. The pit is a KO, end of. If you can somehow get out of the pit again that would be genius, but this is cheap and unimaginitive. Literally the moment I saw it all those years back I knew it was unsporting, even if it wasn't against the rules.
@@BlooperSphoof1 1 year later I see this xD I have no issues with it. The rules were made to be broken and while controversial; it was legit. Tornado beat the shit out of Razer the entire fight (but Razer had quite a few problems going off the now broken Razer website's battle report). All Razer had to do during the pitting was let go and they would have won. I do understand people's anger over it: the ruling was fixed for Series 7 (which is another ballpark altogether). I'm actually impressed how well Razer held up in all three matches vs a robot with a configuration designed to beat it. Should have won the Extreme Warriors match (Noel Sharkey called it the worst moment of his career), this final was down to a few inches and the Extreme 2 match was dominated by Razer despite burning its motors out. Based on damage, Razer probably won that decision, but Tornado was so dominant on aggression the judges could not have ignored it. It was a great final in spite of all the controversy.
I think they let tornado win on purpose because razor was undefeated for so long and they needed a new champion just to open up the series to newer contenders. Otherwise razor would have clearly won. Interchangeable weapons is one thing, welding a new frame to the hull is a whole other form of modification that should be illegal to the rules, especially if that frame prevents arena hazards from working. But even though they won, they lost all dignity to that victory, you could even hear the booing of the crowd, and people to this day hate the indignity of their victory. So in my opinion, razor lost the battle, but won the war.
The entire point of Robot Wars was to design and build a robot that could fight against others in a knockout tournament. Tornado went against the spirit of the competition. Razer are the people's champion and always will be!
Not a big Razer fan (moreso chaos 2) but I’m glad they reworked that troublesome tail in later years And it seems the air cadet controversy isn’t the only popularity killer
I remember watching Razer vs Tornado at the time, and even now I think it was complete BS. Tornado's weapon was non-functional and were basically stuck over the pit. Seemed like cheating then, and seems like it now.
That loss to Tornado is unfair. The cage around it was merely designed to block the machine from becoming disabled, yet Razor still managed to destroy its weapon, lift them up and toss them over the pit. The only reason Tornado wasn't disqualified was it's cage was designed larger than the pit itself. Machines larger than the pit shouldn't be allowed any more than machine exceeding 100 Kilograms should be allowed. If Razor had been defeated by Tornado fair and square, I wouldn't be angry. But this? THIS?! bullshit.
Bruh. It’s literally in the rules that it has to be able to get into the pit somehow. If it didn’t fit, how was it accepted by the people that look into that as well as the judges and the Razer team? They all knew about it beforehand. Thats right. It could easily still get immobilized by the pit. Also, are you blind to all the pushing and slamming that was being done to Razer? And their weapon getting bent sideways? Tornado was dominating the fight up until basically the last 10 seconds.
As a lifelong Razer fan, you can hold up that last match as an impetus for changes to the rules all you want, but Tornado fought for the win and deserved it. Interchangeable weaponry to suit the opponent at hand was always the point and greatest strength of Tornado's design, and you absolutely can't fault them for feeling the need for specific countermeasures against Razer of all opponents, dominant as Razer always was. If you don't think it should be allowed, then the rule should be that no modifications of any kind are allowed once a bot has been entered into the competition.
@@Jimmyfishthe3rd Which is exactly why one could argue that that sort of modification should be against the rules from that point forward, but it's not as if they pulled the wool over the judges' eyes at the time.
@@aeternusgaming8050 People saying they didn't fit in the pit....but you can clearly see that sections of Tornado (especially the frame) are IN the pit...below the floor level of the arena. That's it as far as the rules are concerned, the robot was unable to get out of the pit (all 4 wheels were off the ground) and sections were below the arena floor level...that's pitted. In terms of the rest of the fight. Razor was barely scratched while Tornado's weapon was damaged and unable to function and the frame was buckled in a number of places.
The different uninspired opening theme and Sgt Bash's absence for starters. The very first fight alone left such a poor first impression that the series lost it right to be a triumphant comeback for the franchise after 12 years. I didn't enjoy a moment after that. The returning veterans were very few in number, not to mention the other house robots were mostly sitting ducks, therefore much of the mechanical magic of the original was gone.
Blooper Sphoof não cara é só se inspirar nos veículos da área 51 nesse campeonato , e se não der certo , bota C4 no robô assim você se ferra , mas o adversário ( e todo mundo ) vai junto
i thought the opening theme was pretty damn good - dynamic and different. yes, it was a surprise for the first fight to go the way it did but that's the fun of it. you don't know what's gonna happen - and let's face it, would Razer have beaten Carbide? I really don't think so. yes the lack of house robot action was disappointing but Series 9 made up for it. though can understand the lack of house robots as fair play rules have been changed massively in 13 years
tornado was pretty much KO hanging over the pit. that's the only thing I'm mad about. Beside that, the frame specifically made for Razor ? Lame, but that's war.
To watch all future "Best Of" videos, please check out my other channel, BlooperSphoof2. This will be where all the future videos are uploaded to. th-cam.com/channels/mnH4c0Cd4lcciN6YICwPFg.html
Fun fact: Warhead & Razer are siblings
Razer will always be the people's champion and one of the best robots to grace robot wars
The way Razer celebrated its victories by raising its srimech wings to the crowd like a gladiator receiving the cheers of the people was always awesome.
Never mind Robot Wars. One of the all time greats of the whole sport.
I wish he fought Carbide.
Razer the all time champion 🏆
I was mad about that tornado decision back then and i'm still mad now.
I'm.still pissed off about it as well, Tornado are pussies, the fact that they were in the pit and yet they ignored it, piss take
Its like hydra used bull bar against huge, fckn coward tornado team
The fact that they did that is kind of sad to be honest.
You should be.. You have a point.. Regards from India..
skill issue
The core weapons of Tornado have been destroyed. While the Raser did not get anything but a few minor scratches in some of the accessories. The game ended with Tornado putting it in the hole ... I think the Raser team is the winner
Tornado was not in the pit, it was suspended above the pit by Razer. If Razer simply released and backed away it would have won - but it didnt. Tornado also dominated the whole fight bar the last 30 seconds, which is why it won.
@@Garfie489 because Stupid Lame Frame.. cant wi whitout it.. and cant fi in the pit. Tornado sux
@@vrlaite1916It was not cheating, they made sure with the judges beforehand. However, you are entitled to your opinion
@@Garfie489 "dominated". You mean had their spinner absolutely destroyed and reduced to nothing but pushing because they had 0 backup weapons. Razor turned that piece of shit into nothing but a box with wheels in the end.
@@lizgayle14 a battering ram is also a very simple but effective design. and all that razor does is engage, push down, pull to pit win. an enemy told them also what they will do against it.. so i think it was fair. Razor is so low it can not be liftet from front, and its nimble so it cand be outrun easy. seems also like a very hard amour so blunt force (dead metals saw did not a scratch to the wing) so how u defeat such an enemy? only with something new... so it no cheating. and anti pit devise.. yes, but let him down there so he dont touch the ground with a wheel and he can not move and get a count out.....
The Razer Tornado fight is still one of big controversy... cause even though it was technically within the rule set, Tornado had lost its main weapon and had many dents and damage on its frame. Not to mention Razer could have easily left him there and it would have been dam near impossible for Tornado to get out. Which would have meant a count out, which sucks that it was not in consideration.
Honestly I don't understand why this debate has lasted so long. The last chance rumble judges decision (The closest equivalent I could think of) was controversial for like a year and then it died down but after nearly 2 decades people still argue about whether or not this was cheating and who should have won.
@@joeandrews7329 deserved?? that's kinda based. Tell me you're affiliated with Tornado without telling me
Razor should have been made a house robot.
Just make him bigger and heavier and improve the crushing strength of his beak.
And paint him black
If u Double it, it would equal 18 tons of force
@Drago Don ;)
Black for loosers. Metal shine for Chad.
He'd be OP
Razer would get destroyed as a house robot. Couldnt even beat pussycat or Tazbot.
House robots : i am the strongest here!
Razor : I don’t remember asking your opinion
Razor is the only bot without a spinner, doing THIS MUCH DAMAGE! ... he literally tore them apart!
The commentator was absolutely A1. This dude was so hype every single match
If you want to see more of him, I highly recommend Red Dwarf, an amazing show which he stars in.
@@thomasleifNo, the commentator is Jonathan Pearce who is now a football commentator for the BBC. You're thinking of the host, Craig Charles, who plays Dave Lister in Red Dwarf. (I'm a RD fan!)
Good old Craig Charles, he was great on takeshis castle aswel
Robot wars season 6 grand final
Arguably one of the most controversial fights in the sports history
Nah fuck that, Tornado was in the pit. Anti-pit device? Give me a break, getting the opponent in the pit is a KO cuz it shows that you're just better than them, you can't just build a giant fence around the bot so it's literally impossible because of size lool
I agree complete bs
Blooper Sphoof It's not about tornado team, it's
about judging.
tornado's weapon was destroyed, and robot ended the fight immobilized over the pit.
while razer's weapon was still functioning.
for me - it's a heroic comeback, not a defeat.
razor's fights in this video were thrilling unlike almost all other robot fights I've seen.
Powerful though vulnerable. slow, but devastating weapon. one mistake - and inevitable painful death awaits. that was a great show!
it was the most drama-filled robot competition I've ever seen! not just running around flipping one another until i die of boredom. not scratching each other with useless saws or toothpicks, ramming in walls without any visible effect. It was a fight with taking risks of being flipped to death - for the possibility of a spectacular destruction of a foe
btw this robot is just beatiful!
Robot wars should ban "fences
Languge!!!
I agree, even if Tornado wasn't completely in the pit they wouldn't have been able to move so were immobilized
I remember watching this and shouting at the TV about tornados frame unfortunately the legendary Razer lost what a shame we will never see anything like the original robot wars again.
Still winds me up to this day about tornado
Sarg ent they should've been able to fit in the pit razor is still the best dawg
Sa
Sarg ent I don't mind the design, it's clever as fuck, I just hate that it couldn't fit in the pit.
Sarg ent they wouldve been able to be suspended over the pit, not that it ecen matters. Seriously why is an anti crusher cage not ok, but anti spinner configs, special upper armor, and the nuts gaurd a ok to you people. Double standards much?
Wtf? 35:49, clearly the outercage prevents the robot from falling in the pit...
Top tier sportsmanship from team razor. Holy hell, tip of the hat to them fellas. absolutely love to see that.
Tornado was really well equipped, they were dominating the whole fight in-till the end. No matter how you look at it judges decision or not, Razer won by immobilising Tornado over the pit. Even If the fight carried on for indefinitely there was no way for Tornado to carry on fighting.
All for the TV ratings!
Nah, Razor would have had to release Tornado and back off, and if Tornado stayed stuck over the pit then it was out. They couldn't release them though, they were just holding them in place. Tornado won fair and square, being a salty Razer fanboi won't change this I'm afraid :).
@@Al3xceptional tornado didnt wim fair though. Their cheat device ment they couldnt fit inside the pit and rules stated they had to be able to
@@matthewrusshow was it cheating? It was approved by the judges and everyone else on set and the Razer team knew beforehand too, so they could make an anti-anti-Razer attachment attachment. It could very easily get stuck on top of the pit and get counted out, but that never happened so it’s fair. I’ve never seen anyone get mad about robots like Bombshell from Battlebots reboot, which had wildly differing attachments, which included a horizontal spinning blade that could adjust its height during a fight.
If you’re comparing this to the bike rack Hydra used against Huge, this fight is different too. Tornado still used its primary weapon and them improvised when it broke. Hydra never once used its primary weapon.
Oh yeah. And if it didn’t fit in the pit at all, how was it allowed if it broke the rules?
Tornado was saved by the bell.
@@matthewruss This. Simple fact is judges shouldn't have allowed it. Shows you how desperate they were for a fight of equals, when nothing could touch Razer.
Sure razer got pounded but they would have put tornado in the pit if not for the frame. Which counts as a knockout if I'm not mistaken? In my book razer won :/
In that regards, whoever dreamt up the rules needs to be shot and hung. Seriously, Why not just create a robot that's a solid flat block with no weapons that stretches out over the pit, whos vitals are kept dead center of the entire bot. You'd never get disabled, you'd never get counted out, you'd never be able to be flipped, and you'd never be able to fit through the ring-out area. But hey, so long as it's regulation size right? So long as it's in the rules that it has to be within this size...
If it can't fit in the pit, shouldn't be allowed.
Blooper Sphoof basically you said what the judges should have done in this case. Man it's so obvious, this is bs.
Tornadoes ring weighed very little relative to the rest of the machine. It's not a question of rules, it's a question of sportsmanship, and the design is an unsporting adaption. Also, this series had rules that were also to improve the viewing spectacle.....that battle was frustrating.
Razer put all of its eggs into one basket. They knew the rules and knew that they could go up against someone with a "cage" around them at any point in time. Tornado was simply the first to pull it off effectively.
Yeah, Tornado was legit, so are the tax-saving mechanisms of big companies, so it's also OK when they do that, I guess :-/ (sry for my bad english)
Razer was surgical targeting the wheels or other crucial internals and using all the arena hazards
Plus it was nice of Terrorhurtz team to make it clear so we could see what Razer was doing XD
tornado's frame may have been in the rules but I would hardly say it's within sportsmanship
Doesn't fit into the pit..stupid really
In the end Tornado was always a cheater. Just a pushing box with 0 ground clearence. Almost impossible to beat by other designs, cause it would always win by judges decision just because of the pushing power
@@stiemerrrsskino Ohh so they always cheated just because they built a bot with no design flaws to it. So your saying teams should build less than ideal robots with weaknesses just because they beat Razer.
@@wisewolftony well I can understand their choice for the design, cause it was efficient and within the rules, but I think it rendered a lot of other designs with cool weapons almost useless. I think Tornado's succes was actually the beginning of the end of the show.
@@stiemerrrsskino To me the end of the show was series 7 where they allowed in a bunch of robots that had no right being in the competition due to the fact that they had my heats than ever before. So it resulted in so many episodes where you would getting nothing but a bunch of shit fights with literally nothing at all interesting happening at all. I mean to me Razer was no different than Tornado just a machine that was built to take advantage of the rules and arena. I mean with the rules they were allowed to just get in one bite while keeping the opponent on their wedge when meant they couldn't escape and were allowed to pierce into machine let go for a second and pierce them again and do that for the entire fight if they wanted to or just hit the pit and dump them in their. So many of Razers fights were just that and nothing else.
I mean Battlebots during the same period had tons and tons of four wheel drive wedge bots that were just like Tornado yet very few of them would actually win it all. Due to the fact that their were machines that had designs that were good enough to combat them. Either having spinners so powerful that it didn't matter like Ziggo and Hazard or just having a wedge in front of their own machine that could counter the other teams wedge. I mean Battlebots had Hazard a nasty spinner who for the first 4 seasons was undefeated 17-0 winning the first 4 middleweight championships. Until it met T-Minus which was a flipper who decided to add a few extra inches to their flipper arm which allowed them to get a flip in on Harzard and be the first and only robot ever to beat them. Which to me is no different than what Tornado did in this fight which was add on something to your machine that can help you counter the other team.
Not fitting into the pit should be cheating
Wheely Big Cheese was longer than the pit, and it was allowed. S3 was wider than the pit, and it was allowed. Tornado just did both at the same time.
Difference being it was still able to go in the pit. Rules are one thing, but the spirit of robot wars is something else completely. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. To be frank, it's poor sportsmanship on tornadoes part, they deserve the hate.
DunkdaHunk theyd easily be able to be suspended over which counts as in for all tense and purposes. Honestly i dont get this whole thing though, anti crasher cage:no but special upper armor, nuts gaurd and anti spinner configurations are a ok?
Noone deserves hate for following the rules. Sure you can say it may not have been in the spirit but noone "deserves hate".
I can't stand Tornado for their cheating ways and the mod should have not been allowed.
I think this was the golden era of robot wars. now everyone has spinning discs and drums.
Tornado rails should have counted as defensive.While its spinner attack.Both didnt do damage but Tornado rails were dent in like a motherfker.Thus Razer should have won.For more damage on Tornado since its spinner stopped also
Razor was one of the few bots that, can go up against the house robots What A Legacy 👏
Pushing raging reality into Matilda's spinning wheel was a good move for Razor, lots of damage, good stuff.
7:44 - The sheer power of Growler's drivetrain here....pushes Cyrax and Razer around like they are nothing. I wish we'd have seen more of Growler at maximum attack... I recall one episode where I think it was Dominator 2 who went into a CPZ on the opposite side of the arena, and Growler came FLYING at it, smashed into the back of Dominator 2 and later they found the impact had split the chassis....
one of a kind. really wish another would come in with a crusher like razor at some point.
Who does not love Razer's Victory pose. Looks so menecing
The best looking and performing robot in the history of the sport in my opinion
LOL watch Battle Bots on here ton see real Robots
Takes 20 people to make a battlebot though doesnt it. Then have kisses at the end like football fans.@@fishwhistler7224
Tornado was suspended above the pit with no tires touching the floor, so in my book they were immobile and out.
@dennistaft7868
One problem Razer didn’t let go of Tornado if he did he would have won.
Razor has always been my fav since the beginning of robot wars
Tornado was cheating. Should not have been allowed to have that additional frame. Weapon switch is one thing but that frame was cheating not just against Razer but all the area tools like pit and grinders but also house robots.
For fairness, the front frame should have been allowed for weapon mounting, but not the whole side/rear. these frames served no other purpose than "anti-weapon system" which isn't a weapon switch whatsoever
one of the robots i think would beat the frame is carbide and other spinner robots that can tare thru the cheater frame.
@Joel WW Its modifying thr function and design of the robot essentially mid fight. Changes how opponwnts can fight against it.
@Pope Leo X if the bot cant fit in the pit, the fight must be quit.
@Joel WW the difference is you actually intend to use the mods as weapons. purely defensive measures were a different story, werent they? Can you really argue that the frame that is big enough to keep razer from getting close, with a completely ineffective weapon was TRULY made to be used as a weapon against razer?
Razer vs Tornado is about as entertaining as this type of thing gets. A dominant champion who rarely had any trouble suddenly getting pushed around by a robot designed specifically to stop them with its huge extra frame. Razor gets pushed around all fight but finally somehow gets enough grip to pick Tornado up and carry it to the pit only to find it's simply too big to fit in.
Tornado was in the pit
That's kind of horse shit, a big ring around them? Might as well be that kid at the park with an everything proof shield.
would you rather a scrap of metal get launched into the audience?
I'm still mad about the Razer vs Tornado fight. If you can't fit into the pit, it can't be fair.
Mr Psycho looks like the Heavy from TF2.
I'm from the states, but I went to a summer camp at my museum teaching kids about robotics in the 2000s and every day at lunch they put on VHS recordings of Robot Wars. It's been my favorite version of robot combat shows ever since.
Tornado should not have been allowed to make their frame so large that it wouldn't even fit in the pit! It caused an unfair advantage to have it that large and the crowd agreed, did you hear the booing?
To improve Razer then should try finding ways to speed him up. Other, newer robots can run circles around him, but he will always be the best!
I just realized that if Razer had driven forward LITERALLY ONE MORE INCH, the corner of Tornado's body would have caught on the wall of the pit and it would have unhooked Razer's beak and Tornado would have been pitted. DAMMIT!!!
That's crap that they can change they're armor last second, they would have and should have lost to razor it's completely unfair
It's a listed add-on for the bot and is allowed within the rules. The judges checked it and everything.
@@OneBiasedOpinion Asd ons again best robot!! because tornado is stupid as fuc*** ***** and cant win whitout chesting.. cant fint in the pit. Razer weapon was.still working.. Tornado weapon was broken.
@@vrlaite1916 at least get your grammar right before insulting the series 6 champion.
Tornado is garbage .... those rails were bs
SS irespawn no they were not. Suspended over the pit and done for. As for being anticrush what about special upper armor? Or nuts gaurd? Or anti spinner wedges? Or changing your blade?
Im a huge fan of razor but they fought like shit that round with tornado, they kept the hook in the air pretty much the whole fight when it shouldve been really low to try and snag that shitty frame of tornado and flip it over or drag it to the house bots like dead metal who could probably fuck that frame up with its claws
It is a difficult decision, but, throwing inside the pit is instant victory, which Razer made!
It just dont dropped inside because of the robot size.
I feel it was not fair.
It never went in the pit because Razer never released Tornado.
Its the same rule that applies elsewhere - you need to release your opponent.
Well, if you take a look, tornado's body is in the pit. This should be counted because he couldn't move. Nor was he stuck. He was technically in the pit. Also, they should create a rule so that you an ACTUALLY get in the pit. Lastly, when the judges were viewing the bots, (36:29) its almost as if Razor didn't have a scratch. Basically, I just think that Razor should of won.
If its in the size limits then being too big to pit is aok
Its not in the pit because Razer is still holding onto it - its suspending it above the pit.
For example, Wild Thing done the same against Chaos 2 - the pit smoke even went off. But because Wild Thing was suspending Chaos 2 above the pit it wasnt in the pit.
All Razer had to do was release Tornado and back away and itd have won.
Garfie489 well it was also stuck to the cage somehow, also he said anti pit device despite the fact that it really wasnt, and it sure as hell wasnt intended to be an apd
well.. in the pit or not: if the Razer team would have been smart and skilled enough they could have just placed Tornado right in the middle of the pit so all wheels are in the air -unable to move, it should be KO after the 10 sec?!
DrJimbo theres also the fact that you saw it for 3 seconds and not even the whole thing
I will remember you, Razer-winner!
Thats some major BS. Even with a cheating mod, razer still managed to pit tornado. This fight is like watching a 10 yo playing tennis with a bigger racket than the rest of the kids. Loses by elimination, then ends up winning because daddy owns the sport club.
Razer serves. Its a good one.
Tornado returns....its into the nets.
POINT TORNADO
I was lucky to see this live on 2 occasion and got to meet Craig Charles both times, that was amazing as I was such a big Red Dwarf as well, he was such a cool guy amazing with the fans, and getting to see the action live was so cool, just remember being in shock with how big the robots are in real life specially the house robots, fondly remember all the battles fantastic time 🤟🏻
Pros:
- Scorpion like Design
- Wedges to prevent immobile in sides
- Scorpion Stinger that pierces Metal, Free Damage!
- Felt the top of Competitive than other Wedge tankbot or Wedge flippers
- House Robots felt concerned and threatened fighting this
Cons:
- Getting flipped
- Needs to get closer range
- Slow attacks
- Hates spinners
- Hates Nets
Reliability too for cons. Razer has a history of breaking down in fights.
I do actually class Razer as a 2 time uk champion because tornado was 80% in the pit and because tornado added the frame they should be over the weight limit anyway
Razor “at the time” was completely ahead of its time 😮
Even the house bots seemed more aggressive in targeting razor
@Pope Leo X true
they are only alowed to attack who's in the corner.
@Pope Leo X Refbot was supposed to free Razor. Razor wasn't immobilised, it was jammed in place. Being jammed against arena hazards or stuck by being wedges doesn't count. You have to be put in a position where your wheels can't gain purchase OR are actually, genuinely, immobilised.
Refbot was actually designed specifically for checking the mobility of a robot via nudges and ensuring it's genuine and not because of arena's hazards "pinning" it. It also has the fire extinguisher for safety use as a number of robots burst into flames in the past and put the crew at risk.
Would like to see the house robots to fight
Omg same
Same xd
shame it'll never happen though, it'd cost the BBC too much money :(
I’m still mad about that final. If your robot didn’t fit in the pit, it should have been illegal and besides they had no mobility so should have been instant ko. I refuse to recognise tornado as champions
what tornado did with the frame is just BS.
Razor won hands down, the moment Tornado was fully on the pit should have counted and they should have been DQ'd for it
Tornado was in the pit. Frame or not the body and gubbins were in the pit. Close to cheating by Tornado.
An absolute travesty, no bot should be too big to fit in the pit. Tornado's frame was excessive to the point that it should have been deemed illegal
2019 1004 still here!
Razor is the ture king in the world
Yes
Good to see something other than a spinner, which we've had too much of for a decade. I like the innovation on both sides
Holy shit is that Jeremy Clarkson?
Yeah, he presented the first series
Young-ish!
Tornado should’ve never been allowed to make those changes
Bs suspended in a pit without wheels should of been a loss period
Razor and Hypno Disc were by far the two best engineered bits back in the day.
I never thought I'd see Jeremy Clarkson on RobotWars
Razer is just damn awesome machine.
is it robot or just remote control car with cage..?!
Robot
show was pure energy and fun.
Well now we know what happens if you build a wooden robot. You'll end up like Brutus Maximus.
Razor beat Tornado. They were left suspended over the pit.
I will never understand how tornado was able to have an extension that wouldn’t fit into the pit razor was all over them and ready to go into the pit but wouldn’t fall My favourite of all time the slow crunching crushing beak of destruction
It’s a shame robot wars folded
Battle bots could learn so much
The commentator the in house bots
I Miss puppy (growler)
The Mel lay at the beginning the pit
The battle bots just ordinary compared to robot wars
The ref it’s just so much more polished
Can’t someone resurrect it
I know tombstone is suppose to be unbeatable with that massive bar at the front
But I back razors driving skill and his crushing beak of doom
Also notice no flippers in battle bots some of the flippers in robot wars were ferocious
Man. The bots in the reboot of Battlebots are way more powerful and interesting than almost any robot wars robots. Look at modern Chomp. A 500lb beast with a turret hammer and six legs with an AI targeting system.
Dude, we even have a Battlebots equivalent to Razer in Quantum. Deep Six was insane, Huge is basically the ideal design of a Gabriel-type robot, Cobalt and Riptide are absolutely shredding everyone and everything. We’ve got bots like Fusion that are a combo of two different types of weapons. Really weird designs like Starchild and Horizon. We have an innovative design in Ripperoni that uses a counter rotating flywheel to counteract any gyro caused by their weapon, giving them insane maneuverability (see their fight against copperhead). There are even rumors of a fully autonomous robot coming to it in the form of Orbitron.
Also, no flippers in Battlebots? Uh, Hydra and Banshee would beg to differ. And look at Blip. It’s basically a Robot Wars flipper, but on some serious steroids. Unlimited flips and can flip 250lbs 20 feet in the air with ease.
Tornado cheated. It is so poorly designed and Razer should be the champion.
Blooper Sphoof 'Using the rules to your advantage' is just a much worse form of cheating, though. If you gotta pore through the rulebook to bullshit up a loophole you can use to win the match, it's a pretty good sign you lost at whatever the actual point of the contest was. Notice that the show isn't called Rules Lawyer Wars.
Blooper Sphoof "Being too big for the pit isn't cheating" --> I'm done here.
Poorly designed my ass tornado is one of the most well engineered robots in robot wars because its so compact and quick
So explain to me how a "poorly designed" bot managed to shunt Razer around like a sack of confetti?
I understand you've got a favorite, but sometimes even the best bots get bad breaks. And Tornado clearly had more raw power than Razer did regardless. Besides, it can't be cheating if the judges took a look at the thing BEFORE THE FIGHT and said "yeah, it's ok."
Do you even read the rules before spouting off your ignorance here?
Razer outclassed almost every opponent by far. It's a great bot which wrote history
After 20 years, it was so epick
every show hosted by clarkson is very enjoyable to hear
Razer was my favorite robot. Great design and fiercely aggressive look. WTF I did not Jeremy Clarkson used to host robot wars?!
Razer is the GOAT
Oh look, the traditional Tornado hate every time a Razer video comes out. After 15 years.
My view on it is that it's unsporting and against the spirit of the competition. The pit is a KO, end of. If you can somehow get out of the pit again that would be genius, but this is cheap and unimaginitive. Literally the moment I saw it all those years back I knew it was unsporting, even if it wasn't against the rules.
@@BlooperSphoof1 1 year later I see this xD I have no issues with it. The rules were made to be broken and while controversial; it was legit. Tornado beat the shit out of Razer the entire fight (but Razer had quite a few problems going off the now broken Razer website's battle report). All Razer had to do during the pitting was let go and they would have won.
I do understand people's anger over it: the ruling was fixed for Series 7 (which is another ballpark altogether). I'm actually impressed how well Razer held up in all three matches vs a robot with a configuration designed to beat it. Should have won the Extreme Warriors match (Noel Sharkey called it the worst moment of his career), this final was down to a few inches and the Extreme 2 match was dominated by Razer despite burning its motors out. Based on damage, Razer probably won that decision, but Tornado was so dominant on aggression the judges could not have ignored it. It was a great final in spite of all the controversy.
Love the intro.
I was very surprised to see Jeremy Clarkson present this.
I think they let tornado win on purpose because razor was undefeated for so long and they needed a new champion just to open up the series to newer contenders. Otherwise razor would have clearly won. Interchangeable weapons is one thing, welding a new frame to the hull is a whole other form of modification that should be illegal to the rules, especially if that frame prevents arena hazards from working. But even though they won, they lost all dignity to that victory, you could even hear the booing of the crowd, and people to this day hate the indignity of their victory. So in my opinion, razor lost the battle, but won the war.
I love this little guy.
Tornadoes weapon broke and they were placed over the pit which if they couldn't drive off it should be considered a knock out.
The entire point of Robot Wars was to design and build a robot that could fight against others in a knockout tournament. Tornado went against the spirit of the competition. Razer are the people's champion and always will be!
F FAIL DECISION I WON'T EVER FORGET AND NEVER FORGIVE!!!!
RAZER F WON
Not a big Razer fan (moreso chaos 2) but I’m glad they reworked that troublesome tail in later years
And it seems the air cadet controversy isn’t the only popularity killer
That was pretty clever by Tornado to weld that scaffolding on prior to facing Razor, no way they could of won without that mod.
*Modify your bot to be too physically large with a frame to be pushed, dragged or dropped into the pit n you automatically win?... hmmm.....*
not only that, the tornado set the frame, so even when they put him in a hole he somehow won -_-
I remember watching Razer vs Tornado at the time, and even now I think it was complete BS. Tornado's weapon was non-functional and were basically stuck over the pit. Seemed like cheating then, and seems like it now.
Tornados win over Razer was the worst judges call since the heat final in war 1 between mortis and recyclops
That loss to Tornado is unfair. The cage around it was merely designed to block the machine from becoming disabled, yet Razor still managed to destroy its weapon, lift them up and toss them over the pit. The only reason Tornado wasn't disqualified was it's cage was designed larger than the pit itself. Machines larger than the pit shouldn't be allowed any more than machine exceeding 100 Kilograms should be allowed.
If Razor had been defeated by Tornado fair and square, I wouldn't be angry. But this? THIS?! bullshit.
Bruh. It’s literally in the rules that it has to be able to get into the pit somehow. If it didn’t fit, how was it accepted by the people that look into that as well as the judges and the Razer team? They all knew about it beforehand. Thats right. It could easily still get immobilized by the pit. Also, are you blind to all the pushing and slamming that was being done to Razer? And their weapon getting bent sideways? Tornado was dominating the fight up until basically the last 10 seconds.
When you manage to avoid razer's claw all battle then killalot sticks his drill into you and guts your internals
That last fight was cool. And worth it happening.
Lmao I love the house robots they have their own little personalities it seems 😂
An unjust judge is worse than a hundred crimes
As a lifelong Razer fan, you can hold up that last match as an impetus for changes to the rules all you want, but Tornado fought for the win and deserved it. Interchangeable weaponry to suit the opponent at hand was always the point and greatest strength of Tornado's design, and you absolutely can't fault them for feeling the need for specific countermeasures against Razer of all opponents, dominant as Razer always was.
If you don't think it should be allowed, then the rule should be that no modifications of any kind are allowed once a bot has been entered into the competition.
But they didn't even fit in the pit tho
@@Jimmyfishthe3rd Which is exactly why one could argue that that sort of modification should be against the rules from that point forward, but it's not as if they pulled the wool over the judges' eyes at the time.
@@aeternusgaming8050 People saying they didn't fit in the pit....but you can clearly see that sections of Tornado (especially the frame) are IN the pit...below the floor level of the arena. That's it as far as the rules are concerned, the robot was unable to get out of the pit (all 4 wheels were off the ground) and sections were below the arena floor level...that's pitted.
In terms of the rest of the fight. Razor was barely scratched while Tornado's weapon was damaged and unable to function and the frame was buckled in a number of places.
10:00 *Like a Phoenix rising from the ashes!* SPREAD YOUR WINGS AND FLY/ MAKE EM CRY!
Even if Razer did lose its title and Tornado garnered a lot of haters, Series 6 was still worth the time of many RW fans, was it not?
Is Series 6 your favourite RW series? Mine is Series 5. Series 8 filled me with hate.
The different uninspired opening theme and Sgt Bash's absence for starters. The very first fight alone left such a poor first impression that the series lost it right to be a triumphant comeback for the franchise after 12 years. I didn't enjoy a moment after that. The returning veterans were very few in number, not to mention the other house robots were mostly sitting ducks, therefore much of the mechanical magic of the original was gone.
Blooper Sphoof não cara é só se inspirar nos veículos da área 51 nesse campeonato , e se não der certo , bota C4 no robô assim você se ferra , mas o adversário ( e todo mundo ) vai junto
i thought the opening theme was pretty damn good - dynamic and different. yes, it was a surprise for the first fight to go the way it did but that's the fun of it. you don't know what's gonna happen - and let's face it, would Razer have beaten Carbide? I really don't think so.
yes the lack of house robot action was disappointing but Series 9 made up for it. though can understand the lack of house robots as fair play rules have been changed massively in 13 years
I still consider Series 6 my favorite series. Least favorite is Series 5.
Razer would make an epic house robot.
4:15 i love the way he just put em to barbeque
They were the world champions
They came back for more,
Making controversies
On robot wars, buh-bye
Cyrex should have pushed Razor into a corner instead of watching in awe as it righted itself...
Humble yet cheeky champs
tornado was pretty much KO hanging over the pit. that's the only thing I'm mad about. Beside that, the frame specifically made for Razor ? Lame, but that's war.