Wonderful comparison video, Sir. As I'm shopping for my first e-bike battery pack. The included chargers are rated at 2 Amps. I'm still not sure, but it seems as though that's too high, unless the charge is divided by the Parallel number. Is that a good guess? "Panasonic 18650GA 3450 mAh Cells Configuration: 13S4P". It still seems high, especially for some of the batteries. I want them to have longevity more than quick charging.
Thank you for this. Now the real question is..which do I choose for an 8000w ebike? I mean in real world application, which is the best option. What are we really sacrificing by choosing one over the other? Power, range, life cycle?
@@digitalizations well im not going for 8kw im only going for 3kw, 70kmh is all im looking for, so im going for a 14s 9p pack from the Samsung 35e cells, which litterally arrived last night.
This is by no means my first go around, this my fourth build, i was more wondering which cells held up better in real world conditions, high drain at around 15°c, so i chose the 35e because of their higher end voltage, e.g. lower current for the same power on the low end,
Very little difference between any of these cells just a few % ... excellent results , they all deliver 11WHrs @ 5A the best and worst not separated by a 3% difference I guess these cells are the best there is in the 18650 world?
Depends on the best in what))) When you look at cycle life or max discharge rate they are far from being the best. Say a cheaper 3000mAh cell after some 300 cycles could have a higher capacity than one of those. So which one is better?
Thanks Chris! Unfortunately I don't have accurate enough equipment for measuring the internal resistance. I'll receive my new scale with 0.1g accuracy and i'll add weight info in future tests. Cycle life is impossible to test for me because of lack of time. Information about cycle life is usually (but not always) available in datasheets. I'll add links to them later. Thanks for useful feedback! It helps me to make my reviews better:)
NCR18650GA is the best, no matter made in China or Japan, but it would be costy to buy 1400 of them. Maybe you'd better to look at 3000mAh/3A batteries like QB18650-3000? It would save almost 50% of your money. Tell me what are your requirements for the cells.
the batteries are for me and a like minded friend. He wants about 500. Mine is for off grid storage for a 1kw pv array, to run lights, fridge, tools etc Currently using 16, 120ah lead acid 12v, arranged as 2 banks @ 24v. They need replacement. Fridge draws 1.1kw daily. Biggest tool takes 1.5kw.
You can easily use cheaper 3000mAh QB batteries arranged in series of 6 (6S pack) to provide 3.7x6=22.2V nominal voltage. The charge end voltage will be 4.2x6=25.2V in this case.
Be aware, Liitokala cells have higher internal resistance, higher self-discharge over time, and lower cycle life as compared to a genuine cell. The reviews on AliExpress using Liitokala charger may show the rated capacity, but this test is performed at very low discharge current and useless for determining capacity under typical usage. I purchased Liitokala 30Q cells in Apr 2019 to make a 14s5p ebike battery back. It is now Jul 2019. After only 4 months with an estimated 6-7 cycles a week, charging at 5.67 ampere and never discharging below 3.0 volt per cell, the capacity of the battery pack has suffered greatly. The pack voltage after charge is only 56.4 volt versus 58.8 volt when first built. The BMS stops charging prematurely because one of the cells reaches max voltage faster than the others. You get what you pay for, ultimately.
@@lxndrskv Assuming that you tested the cells individually before building the pack, to make sure they are compatible to use in the same battery pack. If not, 1 or more of the cells could perform too much different than the others & cause issues like this.
Hi mate what you think about molicel p28a cell and vapecell battery's i looking for flashlight use should I go fo the the highest amh or the highest amperage.
During the tests each battery did about 10-15 cycles. It's too little to talk about any capacity drop. All 4 are great cells but i'd prefer Sanyo/Panasonic
Thunderheart Reviews It appears that LG cells degrade less than Sanyo/Panasonic. I saw that in the datasheets it's several hundred cycles more on LG than S/P before reaching 80% of the original capacity. It'd be great to have some kind of test on such claims.
The thing is, the cells will degrade simply from age as well, so you would have to test a cell after 2 years of non-use and the same cell at different rates of usage. And copy those tests on other cells as well. Then you would have a somewhat accurate result.
There appears to be a problem with your numbers in regards to the Sanyo battery at the 10 amp discharge. I say this only because @5:07 it is clear by the graphical representation of the discharge curves that the 10 Amp discharge did not have more Mah than the 8 Amp discharge yet your numbers at the bottom of the page disagree. Also to support this, no battery makes more power as the load is increased mainly due to the greater heat losses incurred. Nonetheless great video it saves me a ton of R&D.
This is so great that you know what's the meaning of the code on the label means!! How do you know "L" means made by Sanyo Energy Higashiura and do you konw the maring D 75051W markings means made in Suzhou? I have another Sanyo battery UR18650ZY have "Z" marking on it and I would like to know where is the country of origin / manufacturing location means. Also, a Panasonic UR18650GA with C 09141W is means where manufactured? I've searched Panasonic for a while and cannot find what these marking means... Thanks!!
What is a normal internal resistance for the panasonic ncr18650ga, I ordered batteries and tested them. They have a 79-83 inter al resistance. Are they fake? They look exactly real, also with the ":" more right aligned next to "battery".
Myself, a known resistor and a MyDAQ. The method is reasonably accurate, so I don't think it could be 40mOhms of. But back to my question, if I would get the mentioned results with the perfect meter, would you say they are fake cells?
Nop, none of them, if you want a protected, look for the panasonic NCR18650b, just make sure that the one you buy has the protection, because it is sold both protected and unprotected
Dearest sir, I need your mercy. I need a greatest help from you. I found two different sellers who wanted to help me their lithium battery pack. And these are their specifications. I hope sir you can please read through and let me know which one is worth buying. Both are same price they offer me. Guy number one: LG cell, 60v, 40ah, 30a discharge. Guy number two: Samsung cell, 84v 28ah, 84a discharge. Which one In these two is best specifications and worth buying, please guide me, trillion thanks sir.
@@ThunderheartReviews your replied is as if you did not answer at all....... We are seeking great help from you and yet nevertheless, we are severely disappointed with your useless replied
@@snowy2875 There is an XXL size coat of black color and an XL size one of gray color. Which one should i buy? This is how your question sounds. How can i tell you what to buy without knowing your requirements?
@@snowy2875 i ca-n see that you are frustrated but that answer it’s ok . What is the battery for is more important than capacity but you seems that you don’t have any knowledge about discharge rate . How many amps drain is needed? If you need a better answer you must ask a proper question . Both batteries are good and depends on what application is use for . Nothing wrong about first answer with a bad question .
Yes I agree... Sanyo Made in Japan is world best 18650 battery Sanyo Enveloop Made in Japan is world best AA & AAA rechargeable Panasonic & Sanyo Made in China is Lower Standard
@@ThunderheartReviews of course prices differ from supplier to supplier but LG is consistently cheaper from every supplier. you have an answer for everything, sometimes you just gotta adjust the way you do your videos. good video anyways.
Bonjour Alain! Nkon is a good store but their prices are the highest i've ever seen:) So it's bizarre to hear that ordering from China is more expensive than buying at Nkon... Whatever, Nkon too sells genuine cells and that's the most important! Salut!
nope you need play more with cell. LG MJ1 3500mAh tested with Opus C3100 in test mode, resulting 3505mAh (46,75gr) & 3521mAh (46,85gr). but only great at lower than 5A cont discharge
![[SEOUL NAMSAN] Beautiful trail along Namsan to Myeongdong for 10km](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_dafC80CANY/mqdefault.jpg)
Intro & test equipment: 0:00
Sanyo NCR18650GA (Made in Japan): 3:30
Panasonic NCR18650GA (Made in China): 5:51
LG INR18650 MJ1: 8:04
Samsung INR18650-35E: 10:40
Comparison at 2, 5, 8 and 10A discharge rates: 13:57
Conclusion: 15:56
Wonderful comparison video, Sir. As I'm shopping for my first e-bike battery pack. The included chargers are rated at 2 Amps. I'm still not sure, but it seems as though that's too high, unless the charge is divided by the Parallel number. Is that a good guess?
"Panasonic 18650GA 3450 mAh Cells Configuration: 13S4P".
It still seems high, especially for some of the batteries. I want them to have longevity more than quick charging.
Great review! Curious to know... which 18650 has the best/lowest storage discharge rate(?)
Excellent video! Thank you. 👍
Subscribed. Useful and informational content from small TH-camr. Thanks again
Thanks Dan! :)
Love these videos when they take 10 minutes to unpack a battery.
And you don't love timetables located in the very first comment, right?))
Great video - I would have loved to see the Panasonic NCR18650B cells tested as well
That tool is pure engineering genius. I LOVE IT!
Me too:)
I enjoyed your review - even watched it twice. I feel like I know more about li-ion batteries in general having seen it. Thank you.
You even made the same comment twice :p ;-)
Worth to mention that Samsung 35E max discharge current is 8A (continuous)
Absolutely right. And 13A for non continuous discharge.
They are different generations. It's ild video. These are different 35es
got 100s of mj1 cells in our scrap yard....just a few were bad but the rest are brand new....thx for the info!
Congrats for the experiment and thank you very much for sharing! :-)
For 500watt 36v ebike wich is best
Want to charge Them with 2a charger
Thank you for this. Now the real question is..which do I choose for an 8000w ebike? I mean in real world application, which is the best option. What are we really sacrificing by choosing one over the other? Power, range, life cycle?
Hey this is a late reply but did you settle on a cell cause im in the same boat as you now?
@@a-aron2276 You will have to calculate the maximum drain of the motor and the battery setup ;-)
but look at k2 26650p (completely different battery but you will never have problems at high load)
@@digitalizations well im not going for 8kw im only going for 3kw, 70kmh is all im looking for, so im going for a 14s 9p pack from the Samsung 35e cells, which litterally arrived last night.
This is by no means my first go around, this my fourth build, i was more wondering which cells held up better in real world conditions, high drain at around 15°c, so i chose the 35e because of their higher end voltage, e.g. lower current for the same power on the low end,
Very informative testing. Thank you
excellent review and presentation.!!! thanks so much!
Very little difference between any of these cells just a few % ... excellent results , they all deliver 11WHrs @ 5A the best and worst not separated by a 3% difference
I guess these cells are the best there is in the 18650 world?
Depends on the best in what))) When you look at cycle life or max discharge rate they are far from being the best. Say a cheaper 3000mAh cell after some 300 cycles could have a higher capacity than one of those. So which one is better?
@@ThunderheartReviews ls there such option? A cheaper 3000mah cell that degrades slower than those in the video?
@@tnig take a look at Samsung 33J th-cam.com/video/7FMxgMmPeh4/w-d-xo.html
number of cycles is the most important for me.
is there a possibility to buy directly from the manufacturer?
wheres the links to the company you mentioned?
i like the scientific attitude and approach, well done. i wouldn't have minded internal resistance, weight and est cycle life information
Thanks Chris! Unfortunately I don't have accurate enough equipment for measuring the internal resistance. I'll receive my new scale with 0.1g accuracy and i'll add weight info in future tests. Cycle life is impossible to test for me because of lack of time. Information about cycle life is usually (but not always) available in datasheets. I'll add links to them later. Thanks for useful feedback! It helps me to make my reviews better:)
I'm looking to get 1400 hi capicity for off grid battery, what you recommend?
NCR18650GA is the best, no matter made in China or Japan, but it would be costy to buy 1400 of them. Maybe you'd better to look at 3000mAh/3A batteries like QB18650-3000? It would save almost 50% of your money.
Tell me what are your requirements for the cells.
the batteries are for me and a like minded friend. He wants about 500. Mine is for off grid storage for a 1kw pv array, to run lights, fridge, tools etc Currently using 16, 120ah lead acid 12v, arranged as 2 banks @ 24v. They need replacement. Fridge draws 1.1kw daily. Biggest tool takes 1.5kw.
You can easily use cheaper 3000mAh QB batteries arranged in series of 6 (6S pack) to provide 3.7x6=22.2V nominal voltage. The charge end voltage will be 4.2x6=25.2V in this case.
I am testing a very cheap version of the, Samsung INR18650-35E. branded as Liitokala INR18650-35E, So far so good :-)
Great))
Be aware, Liitokala cells have higher internal resistance, higher self-discharge over time, and lower cycle life as compared to a genuine cell. The reviews on AliExpress using Liitokala charger may show the rated capacity, but this test is performed at very low discharge current and useless for determining capacity under typical usage. I purchased Liitokala 30Q cells in Apr 2019 to make a 14s5p ebike battery back. It is now Jul 2019. After only 4 months with an estimated 6-7 cycles a week, charging at 5.67 ampere and never discharging below 3.0 volt per cell, the capacity of the battery pack has suffered greatly. The pack voltage after charge is only 56.4 volt versus 58.8 volt when first built. The BMS stops charging prematurely because one of the cells reaches max voltage faster than the others. You get what you pay for, ultimately.
@@lxndrskv balancing the cells would fix that
@@motohead077 hmm, I should try that.
@@lxndrskv Assuming that you tested the cells individually before building the pack, to make sure they are compatible to use in the same battery pack. If not, 1 or more of the cells could perform too much different than the others & cause issues like this.
Thanks for a great review. I will be building a battery bank. It will charge my cell, flashlights, and a ham radio.
I'm gonna test 3600mAh cells soon. So keep tuned ;)
Hi mate what you think about molicel p28a cell and vapecell battery's i looking for flashlight use should I go fo the the highest amh or the highest amperage.
Depends on your flashlight's power requirements
Very well done! Thank you! I love the Sanyo NCR18650GA cells!
How are the cells after a couple of cycles? What brand usually lasts longer? LG, Sanyo/Panasonic or Samsung?
During the tests each battery did about 10-15 cycles. It's too little to talk about any capacity drop. All 4 are great cells but i'd prefer Sanyo/Panasonic
Thunderheart Reviews It appears that LG cells degrade less than Sanyo/Panasonic. I saw that in the datasheets it's several hundred cycles more on LG than S/P before reaching 80% of the original capacity. It'd be great to have some kind of test on such claims.
Hi Mike! Unfortunately i can't test the cycle life to confirm or refute the official data
The thing is, the cells will degrade simply from age as well, so you would have to test a cell after 2 years of non-use and the same cell at different rates of usage. And copy those tests on other cells as well. Then you would have a somewhat accurate result.
There appears to be a problem with your numbers in regards to the Sanyo battery at the 10 amp discharge. I say this only because @5:07 it is clear by the graphical representation of the discharge curves that the 10 Amp discharge did not have more Mah than the 8 Amp discharge yet your numbers at the bottom of the page disagree. Also to support this, no battery makes more power as the load is increased mainly due to the greater heat losses incurred. Nonetheless great video it saves me a ton of R&D.
Hi Ron. Take a closer look.
@@ThunderheartReviews ohh, I see what you mean. Yep my bad. Thanks.
which one recommended I need is high capacity powerful and continuous please??
What discharge current you gonna apply?
Thunderheart Reviews I have a drone lipo battery is 7.4v 25C 1800mah I wan mod the battery
Try to make a 2S2P pack from Sony VTC4 cells. The test is on my chennel
Thunderheart Reviews sony vtc6 3000mah or panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah how about them?
NCR18650B is a low-drain cell
This is so great that you know what's the meaning of the code on the label means!! How do you know "L" means made by Sanyo Energy Higashiura and do you konw the maring D 75051W markings means made in Suzhou? I have another Sanyo battery UR18650ZY have "Z" marking on it and I would like to know where is the country of origin / manufacturing location means. Also, a Panasonic UR18650GA with C 09141W is means where manufactured? I've searched Panasonic for a while and cannot find what these marking means...
Thanks!!
I have NCR18650B made in Japan in green wrap with Panasonic style. I wonder if you said so then my battery must be Sanyo right?
No. Sanyo doesn't make batteries wrapped in Panasonic-style shrinks.
Thunderheart Reviews so it is a Panasonic I suppose. Thanks.
Yeah, it's a Panasonic cell made in Japan. Panasonic has its factories both in Japan and in China.
What is a normal internal resistance for the panasonic ncr18650ga, I ordered batteries and tested them. They have a 79-83 inter al resistance. Are they fake? They look exactly real, also with the ":" more right aligned next to "battery".
Which tester did you use?
Myself, a known resistor and a MyDAQ. The method is reasonably accurate, so I don't think it could be 40mOhms of. But back to my question, if I would get the mentioned results with the perfect meter, would you say they are fake cells?
Maybe not fake but used ones. 80mOhm is too much for a new cell.
Are these protected batteries ?
Nop, none of them, if you want a protected, look for the panasonic NCR18650b, just make sure that the one you buy has the protection, because it is sold both protected and unprotected
Thank You for video
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հարգեցի
Thanks for this
Hey I need help in design of BMS. Can you help?
What's your problem?
Great job!
Thanks Daniel!
good video. kinda feel like there was very little difference though.
Yeah, all the top manufacturers' technologies have almost reached the limit.
@@ThunderheartReviews thats fair. hey keep up the good work! mate, your channel is excellent. we need thoroughness like this and you're a champ.
Great job sir.
Thanks Miguel!
The NCR18650GA is no longer listed by queenbattery.
Inspironator I bought a couple.over the internet, hope they are authentic high drain and work in a vaporizer
Well done!
Thanks:)
discharge capacity okey but can you tell me charge capacity
Capacity is the amount of energy a cell gives at discharge. There is no "charge capacity".
@@ThunderheartReviews when finish the battery capacity after i will charge with usb tester what will be there different of discharge
Sorry, i don't understand your question
@@ThunderheartReviews for example i have powerbank when i charged this item whic takes 20000mah but gives just 13500
Its working %65
Hi, is Samsung 35e is for vaping? I use a coil with 0.81ohm, and 55 watt with 8 amper of discharging
8A is the limit for 35E. You can use 35E for vaping though i'd recommend to choose something which can provide higher discharge current like LG HG2
Thunderheart Reviews thanks, i already use HG2, but 3000mah is too small for me. Anyway thanks for tests
Then your choice must be Sanyo or Panasonic NCR18650GA. Japanese made NCR18650GAs are the best.
Thunderheart Reviews yes, but its with protection board, they are too big for boxmod
All four batteries in the test are without protection PCB
Dearest sir, I need your mercy. I need a greatest help from you. I found two different sellers who wanted to help me their lithium battery pack. And these are their specifications. I hope sir you can please read through and let me know which one is worth buying. Both are same price they offer me.
Guy number one: LG cell, 60v, 40ah, 30a discharge.
Guy number two: Samsung cell, 84v 28ah, 84a discharge.
Which one In these two is best specifications and worth buying, please guide me, trillion thanks sir.
Depends on what you need.
@@ThunderheartReviews your replied is as if you did not answer at all....... We are seeking great help from you and yet nevertheless, we are severely disappointed with your useless replied
@@snowy2875 There is an XXL size coat of black color and an XL size one of gray color. Which one should i buy? This is how your question sounds. How can i tell you what to buy without knowing your requirements?
@@snowy2875 i ca-n see that you are frustrated but that answer it’s ok . What is the battery for is more important than capacity but you seems that you don’t have any knowledge about discharge rate . How many amps drain is needed? If you need a better answer you must ask a proper question . Both batteries are good and depends on what application is use for . Nothing wrong about first answer with a bad question .
Yes I agree...
Sanyo Made in Japan is world best 18650 battery
Sanyo Enveloop Made in Japan is world best AA & AAA rechargeable Panasonic & Sanyo Made in China is Lower Standard
The battery pack is for my ebike, by the way.
Thunderheart Reviews а как обстоят дела на Li-free фронте?
Вы про Liquid-free?
Thunderheart Reviews про суперкондеры :)
Нормально обстоят:))
кстати, а toshiba в формате 18650 аккумы не делает? или они не из ряда доступных?
Я таких не встречал
lg costs half the price of others here.
Why not test American made batteries??? Just kiddin'. But, really a shame everything is off shore now.
A123 ones are American. Well, the technology at least)))
Practically meaningless differences when compared to designed in china made in china batteries.
Why not mention price ????? Lg are half the price .
Price differs from supplier to supplier. If i mention the prices some would come with "you lie! they are a whole dollar more expensive/cheap!"
@@ThunderheartReviews of course prices differ from supplier to supplier but LG is consistently cheaper from every supplier. you have an answer for everything, sometimes you just gotta adjust the way you do your videos. good video anyways.
Your voice is muffled. Try a better microphone.
Hi agressiv prices from QueenBattery Store vs nkon.nl, it's no use to command in China if it's for to pay anhigher price :/ Hi from France
Bonjour Alain! Nkon is a good store but their prices are the highest i've ever seen:) So it's bizarre to hear that ordering from China is more expensive than buying at Nkon... Whatever, Nkon too sells genuine cells and that's the most important! Salut!
3500mah batteries do not exist
Really?:)
nope you need play more with cell.
LG MJ1 3500mAh
tested with Opus C3100 in test mode, resulting 3505mAh (46,75gr) & 3521mAh (46,85gr).
but only great at lower than 5A cont discharge
I want
Really?!
Are you new battery God?
I enjoyed your review - even watched it twice. I feel like I know more about li-ion batteries in general having seen it. Thank you.
Hi John! Happy to read that! More reviews of new models are coming - stay tuned ;)