There's this weirdo trend, that some out of town transit tubers started, to badmouth BART. BART is actually a remarkably good system, especially for the US. A lot of out of towners simply can't believe that such an impressive system can exist in the US and instinctively try to badmouth it without looking at the actual properties of said system. BART transfers aren't "a hack," nor are they particularly confusing. They are a very normal transfer system fully compliant with international standards. I've lived in many places around the world that these same people claim "have very good transit." The reality is that in order to use any transit system you need to learn how it works. The system itself is a tool. People in other countries already have this culture of trying to figure out how to use the existing infrastructure to get to where they need to go. We sadly don't. In the US (except in NYC) people expect to just think of a transit mode and immediately teleport to their destination. And if this magical process does not meet their expectations they just drive there instead. This is not how this works in the real world. My European friends have zero issues navigating BART and figuring out how the transfers work. The wayfinding that BART uses is bog-standard EU-style wayfinding. The transfer stations are clearly marked. The clockface schedules are extremely easy to figure out. The only problem that we actually have here is with our local population not knowing how to use a pretty standard feature of their transit system. It's an education problem through and through.
I mean the biggest concerns with BART are that it’s unsafe without enough of a security presence. I myself hate that it took 48 years to build an extension from Fremont to Milpitas and San Jose. Not entirely the fault of BART itself, moreso a show of the political gridlock around here I think.
@@notisac3149 You're acting like BART actually took "48 years to build an extension from Fremont to Milpitas". BART was building other more important extensions every 5-10 years that whole time! There literally never was a longer than 10 year stretch when BART didn't expand! In fact, it's one of the most spectacular system growths ever! BART has literally tripled its original design capacity. I'm sorry, but BART has been crapped on for way too long by "edgy" online commentators and anti-transit locals. BART is an incredible system from a technical standpoint. It was and is extraordinarily bougie. We've let it become unsafe and dirty. That's fine. We'll force the BART Board to clean it up and bring it back to normal, even if they have to be dragged kicking and screaming! Cut out the doomerism and help if you want to help.
@@TohaBgood2 Yeah let’s just ignore the fact that the majority of riders don’t feel safe on BART according to a recent survey. Sure they’ve recently made a lot of improvements like increasing train frequency and doubling security presence, but for a lot of riders, they will never ride again because of those concerns. And again, I’m not trying to fault BART, I’m looking at the, and I quote myself, “political gridlock”. I fully understand that they have intentions to expand and make their service better, but they have had to fight countless political battles just to move forward.
Thanks for bringing up these points, but in order to get the full picture of Daly City station, there needs to be an understanding of how the station was originally designed - and thus, its limitations. Daly City station was the original eastern terminus of BART. It was designed to have turn backs on platform 1 (center) and platform 2 (southernmost track, East Bay direction). Platform 3 (northernmost, SFO/Millbrae direction), was used as the “going out of service” platform. This worked decently well but rather constrained for anything but turning back or a short term place to park a train. With multiple extensions south of Daly City, turn backs now happen most frequently at platform 1 (center track) or in the Daly City turnback (south of the station) - the middle track creates minimal impact compared to a “Spanish Solution” style wrong-way running, which would require either major changes in scheduling to account for very heavy number of diverging moves (and thus lower speed codes) or complete replacement of track 3/plaform 3. Basically, SFO/Millbrae - East Bay traffic would have to go from the W2 track to the M3 track at Daly City, then go the M2 track. With only one switch facing that direction between Colma and DC, it would be a weird single track operation for a stretch. I commuted for years from the East Bay to SFO - and used the walkway between platforms 1/2 and 3 every day. It wasn’t a problem - I knew what I was doing. Balboa works better for the airport passenger with luggage because you can basically stay put.
Thanks for sharing! I guess my point was more about scheduling, and I have to admit I've not actually tried playing around with the numbers so I have no idea if my "utopian" scenario of northbound transfers is actually feasible. Out of curiosity, do you know why Colma has a similar layout? Was there ever a time that the third abandoned platform in service?
@@tomo-tawa-linja BART scheduling is a very tough job. I've known a few of those involved in scheduling the system, and in short, it's almost a miracle it can run - it took decades (and a couple attempts) to replace an excel spreadsheet system with “modern” (highly modified) scheduling software. There are so many restrictions with the system (track layout, labor agreements, car maintenance cycles, etc.) One good example - the original system was designed with 20 minute single tracking headways between interlockings. They got this very well - but since the design reflects such headway, it’s a pain for trying a shorter headway. Example - there is an interlocking between Berkeley and North Berkeley, then the next one is outside Del Norte. No interlockings in between the two - and would require 4 miles worth of single tracking between the two interlockings. Colma station was not the first extension south from Daly City (the Daly City Turnback and Daly City Yard predate it). Colma came in a few years later, and was a bit strange to fit the space available. All three platforms were available for use in revenue service, and there was the interlocking and a short (long enough to fit a train) pair of tunnels south of the station (later, the tunnels were extended to SFO/Millbrae). Before SFO opening (1996-2003), my understanding is that SB “Colma” bound trains would enter the station, go out of service, and go south through the interlocking and into the tunnels. Then, they would turn back and dispatch north, going through the interlocking and back to Colma, thence to Daly City. With the opening of SFO, platform 3 was used for SB trains. It was shortly later closed due to the wash rack on the track just north of Colma station, and the track north of the station officially in yard jurisdiction. Platform 3 is used to park trains waiting to be dispatched south from the DC yard, or take trains deadheading from Millbrae/SFO and heading into the DC yard (and washed). The interlocking is still not optimized for SFO/Millbrae operations, since it’s always a diverging move heading south and heading north.
3:37 One time during labor day I had to transfer lines at bay fair and I had to wait 25 minutes out for my train. This wouldn't have been the end of the world if it wasn't 110 outside that day. I also had ran out of water. Little note: If you are transferring between orange/blue or green/blue if its not going super out of your way just transfer at Lake Merritt. Its underground so the weather won't be a problem and its a super easy transfer.
Thankfully, BART is moving to a homogenized schedule for the entire week on September 11 2023. So in a couple of weeks, these types of issues will be mostly eliminated.
More digital signage and audio announcements are coming to the FOTF passenger information system in December-2023. Would love to see you redo this post after the new options go into effect.
Bay Fair transfer isn't too bad, because blue line trains match up with green line trains. For example, if you are going from Dublin to San Jose you can do a cross platform, timed transfer at Bay Fair onto a train south.
@@CarlosMartinez-ig6nl Yep, that's why Bay Fair and Coliseum are marked with the white circles instead of the typical black circles. They're timed transfer stations.
my suggestion is to make San Leandro station into a massive MacArthur-esque station with two platforms to make timed-cross platform transfers between southbound orange and blue line trains and northbound orange and blue line trains and have bay fair be the transfer point for transferring from a northbound blue line train to a southbound green or orange line train and vice versa.
@@CarlosMartinez-ig6nl Bay Fair Station is probably better suited for this. San Leandro already has a ton of development planned close to the tracks that would impede the expansion of the station. Plus, Bay Fair already is the designated place for that transfer.
@@tomo-tawa-linja They used to do those announcements all the time before the new trains arrived. But they are now automated in the new trains so I think that some of the operators just forget to do the announcement when they're on an old train. This is further exacerbated by the awful audio quality of the announcements on the old trains. Thankfully, this issue will be eliminated starting September 11. All the trains will be the new fleet so the announcements will happen at every transfer automatically.
Actually the new tranis dont do the transfer annoucments (it writen on the screen but the train does not annouce it, operators still have too, unless thats changed im the last few months)
Try going to Antioch. Stay on at the Pittsburgh station, get off at the Pittsburgh transfer station less than a minute away, get on the shuttle train to Antioch.
@@tomo-tawa-linja Not really. You'd only wait for 25 minutes if your train were late and missed it's transfer window. Otherwise the transfer wait is only a few minutes long.
I think it does depend on if there are delays. I usually take the orange line to transfer at Bay Fair to take a SF bound train if for some reason the green lines are not running. One time though the Orange train I was supposed to take was 5 min late, and by the time I got to Bay Fair the SF bound train had already left. I ended up waiting another 15-20 min for the next SF bound train to come by
One thing I do wish is that if BARt has a delay on one line, I wish they could hold the other train to line up with when the first train is supposed to arrive to the transfer station.
Ayyy fellow Berkeley person. Waddup? I actually just presented my M.Arch thesis which involved expanding BART and creating a TOD based high speed rail stop at Dublin/Pleasanton. It’s pinned up in the lobby at Wurster Hall. I’d love some feedback/opinions! I just subbed btw. Keep posting these 👌
@@Alejandro-vn2si Wurster hall in the lobby. Go through the front entrance and it’s to the right of the stairs behind the first black movable wall. It has a giant BART diagram running down the middle.
Gob ears, just graduating with degree in urban planning, currently work at VTA (home to arguably the worst light rail system in the US in terms of land use)
@Gabe Abatecola Is really that bad? I know LA has light rail but I do not know how bad is VTA light rail compared to LA metro (green [C], blue [A], or expo [E])?
Cutting transit during ridership lulls only prevents the riders from returning when they're ready. The absolute worst thing that you can do during low ridership is to make the experience crappier and prevent the riders from returning. This is why this is called a "transit death loop".
There's this weirdo trend, that some out of town transit tubers started, to badmouth BART. BART is actually a remarkably good system, especially for the US. A lot of out of towners simply can't believe that such an impressive system can exist in the US and instinctively try to badmouth it without looking at the actual properties of said system.
BART transfers aren't "a hack," nor are they particularly confusing. They are a very normal transfer system fully compliant with international standards. I've lived in many places around the world that these same people claim "have very good transit." The reality is that in order to use any transit system you need to learn how it works. The system itself is a tool. People in other countries already have this culture of trying to figure out how to use the existing infrastructure to get to where they need to go. We sadly don't.
In the US (except in NYC) people expect to just think of a transit mode and immediately teleport to their destination. And if this magical process does not meet their expectations they just drive there instead. This is not how this works in the real world. My European friends have zero issues navigating BART and figuring out how the transfers work. The wayfinding that BART uses is bog-standard EU-style wayfinding. The transfer stations are clearly marked. The clockface schedules are extremely easy to figure out. The only problem that we actually have here is with our local population not knowing how to use a pretty standard feature of their transit system. It's an education problem through and through.
Yeah barts transfers are way better than those in the Seoul metro, you don't need to huff it down a massive underground tunnel lmao
kinda ghetto now though right
I mean the biggest concerns with BART are that it’s unsafe without enough of a security presence.
I myself hate that it took 48 years to build an extension from Fremont to Milpitas and San Jose. Not entirely the fault of BART itself, moreso a show of the political gridlock around here I think.
@@notisac3149 You're acting like BART actually took "48 years to build an extension from Fremont to Milpitas". BART was building other more important extensions every 5-10 years that whole time! There literally never was a longer than 10 year stretch when BART didn't expand! In fact, it's one of the most spectacular system growths ever! BART has literally tripled its original design capacity.
I'm sorry, but BART has been crapped on for way too long by "edgy" online commentators and anti-transit locals. BART is an incredible system from a technical standpoint. It was and is extraordinarily bougie. We've let it become unsafe and dirty. That's fine. We'll force the BART Board to clean it up and bring it back to normal, even if they have to be dragged kicking and screaming!
Cut out the doomerism and help if you want to help.
@@TohaBgood2 Yeah let’s just ignore the fact that the majority of riders don’t feel safe on BART according to a recent survey. Sure they’ve recently made a lot of improvements like increasing train frequency and doubling security presence, but for a lot of riders, they will never ride again because of those concerns.
And again, I’m not trying to fault BART, I’m looking at the, and I quote myself, “political gridlock”. I fully understand that they have intentions to expand and make their service better, but they have had to fight countless political battles just to move forward.
Thanks for bringing up these points, but in order to get the full picture of Daly City station, there needs to be an understanding of how the station was originally designed - and thus, its limitations. Daly City station was the original eastern terminus of BART. It was designed to have turn backs on platform 1 (center) and platform 2 (southernmost track, East Bay direction). Platform 3 (northernmost, SFO/Millbrae direction), was used as the “going out of service” platform. This worked decently well but rather constrained for anything but turning back or a short term place to park a train.
With multiple extensions south of Daly City, turn backs now happen most frequently at platform 1 (center track) or in the Daly City turnback (south of the station) - the middle track creates minimal impact compared to a “Spanish Solution” style wrong-way running, which would require either major changes in scheduling to account for very heavy number of diverging moves (and thus lower speed codes) or complete replacement of track 3/plaform 3. Basically, SFO/Millbrae - East Bay traffic would have to go from the W2 track to the M3 track at Daly City, then go the M2 track. With only one switch facing that direction between Colma and DC, it would be a weird single track operation for a stretch.
I commuted for years from the East Bay to SFO - and used the walkway between platforms 1/2 and 3 every day. It wasn’t a problem - I knew what I was doing. Balboa works better for the airport passenger with luggage because you can basically stay put.
Thanks for sharing! I guess my point was more about scheduling, and I have to admit I've not actually tried playing around with the numbers so I have no idea if my "utopian" scenario of northbound transfers is actually feasible.
Out of curiosity, do you know why Colma has a similar layout? Was there ever a time that the third abandoned platform in service?
@@tomo-tawa-linja BART scheduling is a very tough job. I've known a few of those involved in scheduling the system, and in short, it's almost a miracle it can run - it took decades (and a couple attempts) to replace an excel spreadsheet system with “modern” (highly modified) scheduling software. There are so many restrictions with the system (track layout, labor agreements, car maintenance cycles, etc.)
One good example - the original system was designed with 20 minute single tracking headways between interlockings. They got this very well - but since the design reflects such headway, it’s a pain for trying a shorter headway. Example - there is an interlocking between Berkeley and North Berkeley, then the next one is outside Del Norte. No interlockings in between the two - and would require 4 miles worth of single tracking between the two interlockings.
Colma station was not the first extension south from Daly City (the Daly City Turnback and Daly City Yard predate it). Colma came in a few years later, and was a bit strange to fit the space available. All three platforms were available for use in revenue service, and there was the interlocking and a short (long enough to fit a train) pair of tunnels south of the station (later, the tunnels were extended to SFO/Millbrae).
Before SFO opening (1996-2003), my understanding is that SB “Colma” bound trains would enter the station, go out of service, and go south through the interlocking and into the tunnels. Then, they would turn back and dispatch north, going through the interlocking and back to Colma, thence to Daly City.
With the opening of SFO, platform 3 was used for SB trains. It was shortly later closed due to the wash rack on the track just north of Colma station, and the track north of the station officially in yard jurisdiction. Platform 3 is used to park trains waiting to be dispatched south from the DC yard, or take trains deadheading from Millbrae/SFO and heading into the DC yard (and washed). The interlocking is still not optimized for SFO/Millbrae operations, since it’s always a diverging move heading south and heading north.
3:37 One time during labor day I had to transfer lines at bay fair and I had to wait 25 minutes out for my train. This wouldn't have been the end of the world if it wasn't 110 outside that day. I also had ran out of water. Little note: If you are transferring between orange/blue or green/blue if its not going super out of your way just transfer at Lake Merritt. Its underground so the weather won't be a problem and its a super easy transfer.
Thankfully, BART is moving to a homogenized schedule for the entire week on September 11 2023. So in a couple of weeks, these types of issues will be mostly eliminated.
More digital signage and audio announcements are coming to the FOTF passenger information system in December-2023. Would love to see you redo this post after the new options go into effect.
Oh for sure! I had a feeling they would take some time, this video was made way before the new schedule was designed let alone that.
Please, make more content about BART! I liked your video!
Bay Fair transfer isn't too bad, because blue line trains match up with green line trains. For example, if you are going from Dublin to San Jose you can do a cross platform, timed transfer at Bay Fair onto a train south.
Does it match with orange line during evenings?
@@CarlosMartinez-ig6nl I believe so
@@CarlosMartinez-ig6nl Yep, that's why Bay Fair and Coliseum are marked with the white circles instead of the typical black circles. They're timed transfer stations.
my suggestion is to make San Leandro station into a massive MacArthur-esque station with two platforms to make timed-cross platform transfers between southbound orange and blue line trains and northbound orange and blue line trains and have bay fair be the transfer point for transferring from a northbound blue line train to a southbound green or orange line train and vice versa.
@@CarlosMartinez-ig6nl Bay Fair Station is probably better suited for this. San Leandro already has a ton of development planned close to the tracks that would impede the expansion of the station. Plus, Bay Fair already is the designated place for that transfer.
Transfers at MacArthur and at 19th do show up on BART's trip planner.
Yeah they are, I was referring more to announcements at stations not mentioning them consistently.
@@tomo-tawa-linja They used to do those announcements all the time before the new trains arrived. But they are now automated in the new trains so I think that some of the operators just forget to do the announcement when they're on an old train. This is further exacerbated by the awful audio quality of the announcements on the old trains.
Thankfully, this issue will be eliminated starting September 11. All the trains will be the new fleet so the announcements will happen at every transfer automatically.
Actually the new tranis dont do the transfer annoucments (it writen on the screen but the train does not annouce it, operators still have too, unless thats changed im the last few months)
The layout of 19th will never not confuse me but it’s okay because the fun blue bricks make up for it
Thanks for the video. I also was confused transferring at Daly City heading south. Ended up taking the ECR to San Bruno.
Very interesting and detailed!
Try going to Antioch. Stay on at the Pittsburgh station, get off at the Pittsburgh transfer station less than a minute away, get on the shuttle train to Antioch.
Some diagrams would really help to make this video easier to understand.
Bay fair transfers are terrible? I use it all the time …. The wait’s usually aren’t that long, I think it’s fine!
Usually on the weekend you could be waiting for 25 minutes. I guess it's better during the week
@@tomo-tawa-linja Not really. You'd only wait for 25 minutes if your train were late and missed it's transfer window. Otherwise the transfer wait is only a few minutes long.
I think it does depend on if there are delays. I usually take the orange line to transfer at Bay Fair to take a SF bound train if for some reason the green lines are not running. One time though the Orange train I was supposed to take was 5 min late, and by the time I got to Bay Fair the SF bound train had already left. I ended up waiting another 15-20 min for the next SF bound train to come by
One thing I do wish is that if BARt has a delay on one line, I wish they could hold the other train to line up with when the first train is supposed to arrive to the transfer station.
Ayyy fellow Berkeley person. Waddup? I actually just presented my M.Arch thesis which involved expanding BART and creating a TOD based high speed rail stop at Dublin/Pleasanton. It’s pinned up in the lobby at Wurster Hall. I’d love some feedback/opinions!
I just subbed btw. Keep posting these 👌
Where is again? I am also interested in seeing it!I am also at Cal by the way!
@@Alejandro-vn2si Wurster hall in the lobby. Go through the front entrance and it’s to the right of the stairs behind the first black movable wall. It has a giant BART diagram running down the middle.
@@jyw0000 Go bears!
Gob ears, just graduating with degree in urban planning, currently work at VTA (home to arguably the worst light rail system in the US in terms of land use)
@Gabe Abatecola Is really that bad? I know LA has light rail but I do not know how bad is VTA light rail compared to LA metro (green [C], blue [A], or expo [E])?
keep it coming bro
idk im not too stoked on the new PIDs the text is too small and they try to cram too much info on a small screen
Nice😊
THE BART TRANSIT IS SOUNDS STRANGE
listen to the thameslink trains on third rail
?
Hairy gay
The green and red lines should be suspended till ridership returns. The orange line is good enough as the blue and yellow lines exist
Uh, no. That’s a terrible idea.
Cutting transit during ridership lulls only prevents the riders from returning when they're ready. The absolute worst thing that you can do during low ridership is to make the experience crappier and prevent the riders from returning. This is why this is called a "transit death loop".
elitist
Poor design.
Not really. This guy is just unfamiliar with how timed transfers work. He'll learn.