The railroads and ferry system should have been a regional goal but independence requires a certain and unique education that Caribbean were not prepared for because their colonial education prepared them to be colonial subjects of Britain for the sole agrandicement of the British empire we must understand this fundamentally
Talk about how the slaves were sold by our African chiefs into slavery , now a class that is privilege and benefitted begging for reparation, having recieving grants, loans and gifts. Slavery was an global industry and Africa was involved
Thank you for joining the conversation and adding a different perspective. This is why the conversation have to be a public one and not in a boardroom by political leaders, we all have to be apart of the conversation
@pedrojemmott6120. Well said couldn’t have put it better myself. The ugly truth black People want to avoid is the complicity of black people involved in chattel slavery. Those who were not only instrumental in selling other black people but the unspoken subject of how other black people were also chattel slave owners. There is much talk about the white Colonisers of the past, but those white Colonisers have now been replaced with the black Colonisers who run the Caribbean countries. It would be interesting to see whether any of the CARICOM Pan Africanist’s reach out to you and provide transparency on the Reparations issue.
Happy New Year!!! Two cannot walk together if they don't agree! Brother I listened to some pros & cons concerning "reparation", I must say nothing is imposible with God, however from some of the argument I was privilege to hear, the case for reparation is a very challenging one if not imposible, but I have to admire your determination, all I can say is all the best. There are things that are worth fighting for, I don't know if reparation is one of them, however once there is life there is hope!!!leaders can make a difference as well as they can be the downfall.... & the majority off our leaders are really "mis-leaders".. thats just the reality....
My father who is from and currently back in Barbados 🇧🇧, does firmly put the blame of the break up of the West Indian Federation on Jamaica 🇯🇲. Jamaican politicians sold out their own people when they didn’t build schools for compulsory education after receiving money from the world bank. That is another story. The federation was not a reparations program. It was the usual sloppy British withdrawal from the region. If they wanted to give reparations, they would have given it to the individual islands.
From what i heard the elders said, was the larger islands was just badminded. Jamaica Prime minister at the time N OTHERS looked down on the smaller countries because they didnt really had any Natural resources like them. So the 4 big countries squash everything concerning the Federation. That why all the smaller islands joined together n created one CURRENCY ( THE EC DOLLAR$$)
My elders told me different. The jamaican government and leaders were all for the federation because it made sense. It was the jamaican people who were against it. Jamaica at that time was the richest of the Caribbean islands. Not Trinidad. Trinidad didn't pop off until the 1970s gas crisis. Up until 1972, the jamaican dollar was equal to the US dollar. Jamaicans thought if they joined the Federation, small island people would migrate to Jamaica and take all the jobs. Imagine if all the Caribbean had one military and one currency? How powerful ee would of been.Jamaican people didn't want that. Now it's the reverse they are migrating in large numbers to the small islands they once despised. Life is funny like that, isn't it??
Thank you very much for adding to the conversation. Base on my information Bustamante and the now Jamaican Leader Party was the one that called for a referendum to have the Jamaican people vote on it because the Jamaican politicians felt insulted that Jamaica 🇯🇲 was the largest island 🏝️ but did not get to be a part of leadership because the first Prime Minister was chosen from Barbados 🇧🇧 and the West Indies head office in Port Of Spain Trinidad 🇹🇹. That’s the information that I gathered.
WI Federation Institutions - West Indies Central Bank - British West Indies dollar, UWI, Interisland Ferry (Federal Maple and Federal Palm) sailed from JA to T&T, Federal Supreme Court , political union with Canada proposed in 1882 in JA but was voted down in the JA legislative council. West Indies cricket preceded the Federation by some 3 decades so it does not technically qualify as a Federal institution. The OECS is also a remnant of the failed Federation, St. Kitts, Nevis, St. Vincent, Grenada , St Lucia and Antigua is de facto confederation with a common Central Bank and Currency EC dollar, free movement of people (no work permits or immigration control between islands) goods and services.
Thank you very much for joining the conversation with your wealth of knowledge. We don’t have all the information so I’m really happy to have people like you adding value to the conversation.
@@carib21network There is a book by Sir John Mordecai titled The West Indies, The Federal Negotiations. This is a gold mine of info on that era, John Mordecai's father was one of the British negotiators between the crown and the Federation. It is out of print now but can get a 2nd hand copy online or on Google books
Great points. Thanks for reminding us of the ideas for Federation and the legacies of us not seeing it through. Is it possible for this work still to be done, in the future?
A lot your listeners have a colonial subject mindset and education they don't understand the transatlantic slave trade and what happened to the various ethnicities in Africa
Why speak of the indegenous people of the Caribbean they no longer exist they have been long gone let's speak of those of us of African descent we are here today
Reconstruction is only a part of reparations. So building West Indies universities, clubs, committees, etc. as you have described are merely attempts at what I think is reconstruction. The British and others saw it fit to pay monies to former slave owners that lost slaves after emancipation. Also billions/trillions were made from slavery ... so reparations should also include financial compensation, amongst other things. So I don't think it was an attempt at reparations ... more likely just trying to clear their conscience for all the damage they did.
@carib21network jamaica is not too badly documented based on genealogy .... a simple search at RGD could develop family trees, etc. I think from there we'd not only be able to identify families to be compensated ... but also properly come up with monetary estimates. The money would be given to every one of adult age ... however the government as well as financial institutions should have educational programmes in place to show people how to invest and create generational wealth ... prior to the payouts. There's no other way ... the complete sum cannot be given to government agencies because we already see what's happening to IMF loans, investments, profits, etc. I can only imagine what they'd do with billions ... money will vanish and the people still be in poverty. Education and direct compensation to each affected families is the only way. If after all that... they squander it ... then it's on them.
Not true, their freedom was paid for by British tax payers and that payment did not end until 2015. Tens of thousands of British sailors died in the fight to end slavery. African tribes sold their enemy tribe members into the slave trade, it's a myth that Africans were rounded up by the Brits, they were already enslaved by other Africans. It is most unreasonable to expect people who were never slave owners to pay reparations to those who were never slaves. Also, white slaves were also brought to the Caribbean from Ireland and Scotland to work on plantations. Look into the Barbary slave trade where north Africans would abduct and enslave whole villages off the west coast of England (Cornwall etc), way before the Atlantic slave trade started. Look at the Vikings, the Romans, the French, the Spanish, they were all slave owners. There is slavery going on in Africa today, why not address this problem rather than one that ended centuries ago?
@sunnyonion3461 I really don't remember any battles to end slavery by the British. I know that after slavery ended ... British had to enforce the decision because illegal slave trade/shipments were being conducted. I'm not aware of thousands being killed to enforce that decision. Also, if you understand the proceeds of crime act ... which is law in many countries... called by many names, I think RICO in the USA ... then you'll understand that if slavery was a crime ... then all proceeds from that crime is also illegal. This means that you are benefitting from the criminal activities of your ancestors. The victims of the crime (slaves and their descendants) need to be compensated. Regarding Taxpayers paying the former slave owners ... that's true ... but it's still your people that's benefitting from that deal ... the monies paid out, would be spent within the British economy. Additionally, many caribbean nationals (descendants of slaves) ... migrated to Britain so they eneded up ... paying the descendants of slave owners for enslaving their ancestors through taxes. I wonder why ... if you thought that slavery was in the past ... that you and your countrymen didn't object to the continued payments made to former slave owners until 2015???
@@TomoC_2023 Sigh, there are plenty of records that show how the British Navy fought long hard battles to end the transatlantic slave trade, I'm not going to spoon feed you, you can investigate very easily for yourself as it's well documented. Slavery was not illegal in the era we're discussion here, and is still happening today - so your illegal argument doesn't really stack up does it. In fact on Barbados, Chinese construction workers are being used today, living in shipping containers, paid a pittance and not being allowed out into 'society' but shipped from living quarters to site and back again. You fail to address the African tribe leaders who sold the slaves in your argument, why don't you pursue their descendants if you say it was illegal? How about those slaves that ended up on Spanish, Dutch or French Caribbean islands? Why don't you point some of your anger towards those countries? If West Indians chose to live in UK more recently, then that was their free choice, so they bought into that themselves. Most Brits were either down the mines, in mills, or working the land back in the days of slavery, and it was the 'peasant' class that ended up paying the debt to the slave owners who were the landed gentry, and as in these times, the so called 'elite'. Do you really think that the little tax payer has any say as to where their taxes go? They didn't then as they don't today.
@@carib21network I think it won’t be given. We have to demand it and be strategic. I just visited The Legacy Museum in Montgomery Alabama and was fixated on the exhibit that showed where the more than 12 million African were taken from and brought to Slaves built the wealth that are still benefiting today. Black peoples are the only ones not given reparations. Anything given is crumbs compared to what was created. We need bold leaders.
No. Our reparations will come about by refusing Europeans and colonizers the right to steal our resources. If Africa or the Caribbean REFUSE to do trade with the west for a week they will crumble and that’s a fact. The west cannot survive a winter without stolen or undervalued oil, gold, lithium, copper etc. They will freeze to death.
We the people have power when we act in the interest of the collective and not just our focus. We now have trump because he focused on fear and racism because that’s what they cared about and not the greater collective. I believe in the power of the people when they’re educated and have understanding.
I dont think we having a joint army was a way to repair wrong.. the joint army would have been wonderful it ,woud have bring us closer but if we ought to do something it ought to ocme from is because they hardly give us anything ,yet they are behind the scene dictating our lives.. what if they had really given us something in truth? Until we learn to assert ourselves snd demand our space then we will forever be pawns. If we are to unite it must happen among and within us. We have to see the need. I think we should.. possibly Jamaica saw the gtsme they played, why they withdraw , i dont know.. but those things you aforementioned wasn't going to occur on the account of benevolence on their part.
Date of creation Great Britain : 1707. Transatlantic slave trade : 1505 to 1834. Per Google. So, which exact past and current countries would pay what portion of reparations ? The situation of various Caribbean Islands are and were not the same over time. So, different compensations for different islands within the same countries ? Consequences ? What plans are foreseen for All British Overseas Territories ? Several are not in the Caribbean. The Caribbean islands also changed hands over time, (and what about BVI) and so did European borders, which begs the question how one would deal with such a shifting situation. How to Apportion wins and losses over time ? Start with calculating compensations for all wars that took place since just to exclude them from the effects of the slave trade ? As seen from the Caribbean, European countries look like a whole, a bloc. Nothing is less true. What about all the Scottish, Channel, etc UK islands, Ireland etc ? The slave trade was in the hands of families and specific trades, enriching only part of a country whilst the rest remained poor often at quite extreme levels and at best sent out the ‘extra sons’ as deck hands who often did not even return home (wars, drowned, killed during a voyage). The descendants of those that were and stayed dirt poor would also be paying for the compensations at country level. Therefore, first determine who gained what - at a much lower level than that of a country. Take into account remittances of Caribbean emigrants to the UK which would probably not have existed without the historical links ? What about Windrush ? Another thing : till this day, criminally acquired property, if not reclaimed, is still part of a person’s estate, no ? So, how many such estates have been validated over the years ? Will those be included in or excluded from the calculations ? I would love to hear how all or any of this would be considered. The intellectual exercise itself is surely worth it.
@TheBantuIsraelite Britain wants to cut ties so they can form CANZUK without being call racist. They can't, because these islands really don't want to stop sucking off the nipple of their mother country.
Big up my brodda, doing well in bringing the important information. Big up to my cousin bringing her research to the channel!!!
Thank you 🙏🏿
The railroads and ferry system should have been a regional goal but independence requires a certain and unique education that Caribbean were not prepared for because their colonial education prepared them to be colonial subjects of Britain for the sole agrandicement of the British empire we must understand this fundamentally
Talk about how the slaves were sold by our African chiefs into slavery , now a class that is privilege and benefitted begging for reparation, having recieving grants, loans and gifts. Slavery was an global industry and Africa was involved
Thank you for joining the conversation and adding a different perspective. This is why the conversation have to be a public one and not in a boardroom by political leaders, we all have to be apart of the conversation
Agreed 👍.
@pedrojemmott6120. Well said couldn’t have put it better myself. The ugly truth black People want to avoid is the complicity of black people involved in chattel slavery. Those who were not only instrumental in selling other black people but the unspoken subject of how other black people were also chattel slave owners. There is much talk about the white Colonisers of the past, but those white Colonisers have now been replaced with the black Colonisers who run the Caribbean countries. It would be interesting to see whether any of the CARICOM Pan Africanist’s reach out to you and provide transparency on the Reparations issue.
Happy New Year!!! Two cannot walk together if they don't agree! Brother I listened to some pros & cons concerning "reparation", I must say nothing is imposible with God, however from some of the argument I was privilege to hear, the case for reparation is a very challenging one if not imposible, but I have to admire your determination, all I can say is all the best. There are things that are worth fighting for, I don't know if reparation is one of them, however once there is life there is hope!!!leaders can make a difference as well as they can be the downfall.... & the majority off our leaders are really "mis-leaders".. thats just the reality....
Thank you for watching and you made some great points
Am I to understand that we are asking people who bought our enslaved forebears their freedom to pay us Reparations
My father who is from and currently back in Barbados 🇧🇧, does firmly put the blame of the break up of the West Indian Federation on Jamaica 🇯🇲. Jamaican politicians sold out their own people when they didn’t build schools for compulsory education after receiving money from the world bank. That is another story. The federation was not a reparations program. It was the usual sloppy British withdrawal from the region. If they wanted to give reparations, they would have given it to the individual islands.
Thank you for sharing and you made some great points
From what i heard the elders said, was the larger islands was just badminded. Jamaica Prime minister at the time N OTHERS looked down on the smaller countries because they didnt really had any Natural resources like them. So the 4 big countries squash everything concerning the Federation. That why all the smaller islands joined together n created one CURRENCY ( THE EC DOLLAR$$)
Thank you for that information
My elders told me different. The jamaican government and leaders were all for the federation because it made sense. It was the jamaican people who were against it. Jamaica at that time was the richest of the Caribbean islands. Not Trinidad. Trinidad didn't pop off until the 1970s gas crisis. Up until 1972, the jamaican dollar was equal to the US dollar. Jamaicans thought if they joined the Federation, small island people would migrate to Jamaica and take all the jobs. Imagine if all the Caribbean had one military and one currency? How powerful ee would of been.Jamaican people didn't want that. Now it's the reverse they are migrating in large numbers to the small islands they once despised. Life is funny like that, isn't it??
Thank you very much for adding to the conversation. Base on my information Bustamante and the now Jamaican Leader Party was the one that called for a referendum to have the Jamaican people vote on it because the Jamaican politicians felt insulted that Jamaica 🇯🇲 was the largest island 🏝️ but did not get to be a part of leadership because the first Prime Minister was chosen from Barbados 🇧🇧 and the West Indies head office in Port Of Spain Trinidad 🇹🇹. That’s the information that I gathered.
@@carib21network In your research did you discover why the Prime Minister of Barbados was chosen, and not Jamaica?.
Another example of why unity is the only way forward.
Happy New Year. 🎉
Happy new year 🥳 to you and your family
WI Federation Institutions - West Indies Central Bank - British West Indies dollar, UWI, Interisland Ferry (Federal Maple and Federal Palm) sailed from JA to T&T, Federal Supreme Court , political union with Canada proposed in 1882 in JA but was voted down in the JA legislative council. West Indies cricket preceded the Federation by some 3 decades so it does not technically qualify as a Federal institution. The OECS is also a remnant of the failed Federation, St. Kitts, Nevis, St. Vincent, Grenada , St Lucia and Antigua is de facto confederation with a common Central Bank and Currency EC dollar, free movement of people (no work permits or immigration control between islands) goods and services.
Thank you very much for joining the conversation with your wealth of knowledge. We don’t have all the information so I’m really happy to have people like you adding value to the conversation.
@@carib21network There is a book by Sir John Mordecai titled The West Indies, The Federal Negotiations. This is a gold mine of info on that era, John Mordecai's father was one of the British negotiators between the crown and the Federation. It is out of print now but can get a 2nd hand copy online or on Google books
Great points. Thanks for reminding us of the ideas for Federation and the legacies of us not seeing it through. Is it possible for this work still to be done, in the future?
I believe that CARICOM can achieve what the West Indies wasn’t able to achieve but we need all the islands to work together.
It's hard to tell if the Caribbean will get reparations. I'm not sure about that. Maybe, maybe not.🤔
Thank you for sharing
they won't
A lot your listeners have a colonial subject mindset and education they don't understand the transatlantic slave trade and what happened to the various ethnicities in Africa
Thank you for sharing
Why speak of the indegenous people of the Caribbean they no longer exist they have been long gone let's speak of those of us of African descent we are here today
Lol not me.
Reconstruction is only a part of reparations. So building West Indies universities, clubs, committees, etc. as you have described are merely attempts at what I think is reconstruction. The British and others saw it fit to pay monies to former slave owners that lost slaves after emancipation. Also billions/trillions were made from slavery ... so reparations should also include financial compensation, amongst other things. So I don't think it was an attempt at reparations ... more likely just trying to clear their conscience for all the damage they did.
Thank you for sharing and I can agree with your point but how would it be payed out and who would receive it?
@carib21network jamaica is not too badly documented based on genealogy .... a simple search at RGD could develop family trees, etc. I think from there we'd not only be able to identify families to be compensated ... but also properly come up with monetary estimates. The money would be given to every one of adult age ... however the government as well as financial institutions should have educational programmes in place to show people how to invest and create generational wealth ... prior to the payouts. There's no other way ... the complete sum cannot be given to government agencies because we already see what's happening to IMF loans, investments, profits, etc. I can only imagine what they'd do with billions ... money will vanish and the people still be in poverty. Education and direct compensation to each affected families is the only way. If after all that... they squander it ... then it's on them.
Not true, their freedom was paid for by British tax payers and that payment did not end until 2015. Tens of thousands of British sailors died in the fight to end slavery. African tribes sold their enemy tribe members into the slave trade, it's a myth that Africans were rounded up by the Brits, they were already enslaved by other Africans. It is most unreasonable to expect people who were never slave owners to pay reparations to those who were never slaves. Also, white slaves were also brought to the Caribbean from Ireland and Scotland to work on plantations. Look into the Barbary slave trade where north Africans would abduct and enslave whole villages off the west coast of England (Cornwall etc), way before the Atlantic slave trade started. Look at the Vikings, the Romans, the French, the Spanish, they were all slave owners. There is slavery going on in Africa today, why not address this problem rather than one that ended centuries ago?
@sunnyonion3461 I really don't remember any battles to end slavery by the British. I know that after slavery ended ... British had to enforce the decision because illegal slave trade/shipments were being conducted. I'm not aware of thousands being killed to enforce that decision. Also, if you understand the proceeds of crime act ... which is law in many countries... called by many names, I think RICO in the USA ... then you'll understand that if slavery was a crime ... then all proceeds from that crime is also illegal. This means that you are benefitting from the criminal activities of your ancestors. The victims of the crime (slaves and their descendants) need to be compensated. Regarding Taxpayers paying the former slave owners ... that's true ... but it's still your people that's benefitting from that deal ... the monies paid out, would be spent within the British economy. Additionally, many caribbean nationals (descendants of slaves) ... migrated to Britain so they eneded up ... paying the descendants of slave owners for enslaving their ancestors through taxes. I wonder why ... if you thought that slavery was in the past ... that you and your countrymen didn't object to the continued payments made to former slave owners until 2015???
@@TomoC_2023 Sigh, there are plenty of records that show how the British Navy fought long hard battles to end the transatlantic slave trade, I'm not going to spoon feed you, you can investigate very easily for yourself as it's well documented. Slavery was not illegal in the era we're discussion here, and is still happening today - so your illegal argument doesn't really stack up does it. In fact on Barbados, Chinese construction workers are being used today, living in shipping containers, paid a pittance and not being allowed out into 'society' but shipped from living quarters to site and back again. You fail to address the African tribe leaders who sold the slaves in your argument, why don't you pursue their descendants if you say it was illegal? How about those slaves that ended up on Spanish, Dutch or French Caribbean islands? Why don't you point some of your anger towards those countries? If West Indians chose to live in UK more recently, then that was their free choice, so they bought into that themselves. Most Brits were either down the mines, in mills, or working the land back in the days of slavery, and it was the 'peasant' class that ended up paying the debt to the slave owners who were the landed gentry, and as in these times, the so called 'elite'. Do you really think that the little tax payer has any say as to where their taxes go? They didn't then as they don't today.
Slave owners received reparations.
It’s not a waste of time It’s essential for healing.
Do you think the Caribbean will receive it one day ?
@@carib21network I think it won’t be given. We have to demand it and be strategic. I just visited The Legacy Museum in Montgomery Alabama and was fixated on the exhibit that showed where the more than 12 million African were taken from and brought to
Slaves built the wealth that are still benefiting today.
Black peoples are the only ones not given reparations.
Anything given is crumbs compared to what was created.
We need bold leaders.
No. Our reparations will come about by refusing Europeans and colonizers the right to steal our resources. If Africa or the Caribbean REFUSE to do trade with the west for a week they will crumble and that’s a fact. The west cannot survive a winter without stolen or undervalued oil, gold, lithium, copper etc. They will freeze to death.
they don't care
We the people have power when we act in the interest of the collective and not just our focus. We now have trump because he focused on fear and racism because that’s what they cared about and not the greater collective.
I believe in the power of the people when they’re educated and have understanding.
I dont think we having a joint army was a way to repair wrong.. the joint army would have been wonderful it ,woud have bring us closer but if we ought to do something it ought to ocme from is because they hardly give us anything ,yet they are behind the scene dictating our lives.. what if they had really given us something in truth? Until we learn to assert ourselves snd demand our space then we will forever be pawns. If we are to unite it must happen among and within us. We have to see the need. I think we should.. possibly Jamaica saw the gtsme they played, why they withdraw , i dont know.. but those things you aforementioned wasn't going to occur on the account of benevolence on their part.
Thank you very much for your perspective. Let’s continue this public conversation and force the leaders in the Caribbean to work together.
You keep repeating yourself...Cut to the chase man !!!...
Date of creation Great Britain : 1707. Transatlantic slave trade : 1505 to 1834. Per Google. So, which exact past and current countries would pay what portion of reparations ?
The situation of various Caribbean Islands are and were not the same over time. So, different compensations for different islands within the same countries ? Consequences ?
What plans are foreseen for All British Overseas Territories ? Several are not in the Caribbean. The Caribbean islands also changed hands over time, (and what about BVI) and so did European borders, which begs the question how one would deal with such a shifting situation. How to Apportion wins and losses over time ? Start with calculating compensations for all wars that took place since just to exclude them from the effects of the slave trade ?
As seen from the Caribbean, European countries look like a whole, a bloc. Nothing is less true. What about all the Scottish, Channel, etc UK islands, Ireland etc ?
The slave trade was in the hands of families and specific trades, enriching only part of a country whilst the rest remained poor often at quite extreme levels and at best sent out the ‘extra sons’ as deck hands who often did not even return home (wars, drowned, killed during a voyage). The descendants of those that were and stayed dirt poor would also be paying for the compensations at country level. Therefore, first determine who gained what - at a much lower level than that of a country.
Take into account remittances of Caribbean emigrants to the UK which would probably not have existed without the historical links ? What about Windrush ?
Another thing : till this day, criminally acquired property, if not reclaimed, is still part of a person’s estate, no ? So, how many such estates have been validated over the years ? Will those be included in or excluded from the calculations ?
I would love to hear how all or any of this would be considered. The intellectual exercise itself is surely worth it.
Reparations is dead. At the last commonwealth meeting the King and UK PM said they won't pay reparations.
Yea most people don’t think it’s going to happen. My mindset is that I hope it happens but we should not sit down and wait.
Cut all ties then.
@TheBantuIsraelite Britain wants to cut ties so they can form CANZUK without being call racist. They can't, because these islands really don't want to stop sucking off the nipple of their mother country.