Partimento - Training the Maestri
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- For the footnotes and other extra information see the following link:
www.earlymusicsources.com/you...
0:00 Introduction and history
4:23 The Neapolitan conservatories
6:30 The "regole" (rules)
10:41 Partimento realizations
19:55 Partimento-fugues
22:57 The legacy of the partimento tradition
Created by Elam Rotem and Sean Curtice, January 2022.
Special thanks to Peter van Tour, David Erzberger, Felix Diergarten, Peter Schubert, Iason Marmaras, Lisandro Abadie, and Anne Smith.
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Hardly anyone had heard of Partimento a few years ago: now everyone's talking about it, and there is a wealth of material - much of it complex. This is by far the best general introduction to Partimento that I've found. Many thanks - as always!
It really helped me hone in on my contapunctal writing.
@@MrPSaun Same here!
Just for fun, pepper your conversations with baffling references to both partimento and portamento.
Didn't expect Pachelbel to jump at me all of a sudden and yet 17:42
The fun thing is that I actually studied Partimento for years, but without naming it! °°
This is basically how we harmonize a bass in Composition course in Conservatories here in Italy*: while any instrumentalist/singer has basic Harmony exercise in which they just to add very simple voices over the bass, we composers had to actually build very complex contrapuntal 4-voice writing starting from the bass.
But yet, I graduated in 2012, and I swear I never heard the word Partimento until 4-5 six years ago.
[* there was a reform after I graduated, I', not sure they still do this way. I hope, thogh.]
Esatto! Non lo chiamavamo partimento ma bensi' basso.
@@locarnese5598 "Basso Imitato e Fugato", albeit with the Reform situation got more nebulous... Many Maestros still indeed use it to teach their students.
👏🏻
A masterpiece: you do justice to the 21st century Italian revival. In only 13 years, scholars like Gjerdingen, Sanguinetti, and Baragwanath have ignited a 2nd Renaissance ad fontes, resurrecting a rich tradition of pedagogy and composing, the nearly lost Musica Practica which informed the classical era. It is a revelation, truly. Thank you so much for all your work.
Your fascinating and beautiful presentation makes an arcane topic in performance practice come alive. When I wrote my doctoral thesis on Spiridion's "Nova instructio" (Stanford, 1980) I had little expectation that his work would have relevance some forty years later, let alone be introduced to thousands of viewers worldwide through a medium that had yet to be developed.
I realize that this video was the beginning of my journey. I can't thank you enough for this very informative video.
I studied composition at the Milan conservatory in the 80s and 90s--this was taught almost verbatim. The only exception is that it all had to be in 4 parts. From there, you later moved on to counterpoint (up to 8 parts) and to fugue. Perhaps you didn't get out as the most creative guy in the world, but the technical knowledge was invaluable. Fantastic video.
The art of Partimento book takes time to read and digest but the whole video gives the entire summary of how the idea of History , Theory and Practice.... was done at that point of time . Gracias💛
During my years of musical training and education, I've always felt like something was missing. My own speculation lead me to believe that improvisation was the missing link, but I didn't know where to start. I think that I was given an answer to my original pondering, today, after learning about partimenti. I think we should teach partimento along with solfeggio and the rules. It's the thing that's missing and that's holding great musicians back from improving even more.
This is just terrific. I'm falling short of words to praise it. This is must-watch for anyone trying to understand the structures and textures of Baroque music, or, as the French conservatory knew, _any_ music, and why the figured bass is (figuratively and literally!) the root of all, and worth understanding and studying. Thank you for this terrific offering, expectably great from this channel, and of such singular importance! Right up there with the tomes of Gjerdingen and Sanguinetti, in video form with links.
I feel it may be extended to any genre for improvisation to be practised upon! Thank you for a great presentation!
Excellent video! 👏👏
I only heard of partimento a few months ago and was fascinated to know that that was how Alma Deutscher and the Neapolitan children of hundreds of years ago were taught. Thanks for making this and for all the wonderful information and resources on your website.
This is now one of my favorite videos on TH-cam. I keep coming back to it. Baroque phrasing and classical improvisation is something I want to incorporate into my playing and compositions. Thank you.
Thank you sharing for the knowledge
I feel so inadequate after watching this.
Terrific video. Felt a bit at times like a reading straight out of Gjerdingen and Sanguinetti - glad to see their book covers at the end of the video but may have been appropriate to mention them by name.
Sailor Jupiter's hand has killed me! 😂😂 in Italy this learning method is in use until today, but usually we call them BASSI, the word partimenti it out of fashion
Never clicked faster
What is the name of this Solfeggi? 5:40 It sounds so familiar!
You put the party into partimento
You guys are the best! Hope more people will learn about this subject and start teaching other musicians about this practice and include it more in history and theory training at conservatory!
Love the intro for this one!! Cheers to everyone! Cheers to you, Elam!!
Wow, Rossini and Donizetti as pupils…not bad! A great episode as usual, Elam.
Praca, którą wykonujecie jest nieoceniona! Jestem pod ogromnym wrażeniem każdego detalu. Mam świadomość, że zrobienie tego materiału (opracowanie graficzne, montaż, itd) to bardzo dużo pracy i umiejętności. A do tego z humorem. Dzięki 👍💪
Never thought I would see Sailor Moon here… gorgeous
I wonder what many later German and Russian composers learned because I can't seem to find evidence of Beethoven, Schubert, and Tchaikovsky learning partimenti, just thoroughbass and counterpoint exercises based on the counterpoint presented in Fux's _Gradus Ad Parnassum_ , especially in Tchaikovsky's own harmony treatise.
Top notch :)... After seeing this episode I am one happy Maltese music fan - most of our great Maltese composers studied in the Naples conservatories - Gerlamo Abos, Benigno Zerafa, Francesco Azopardi, Paolo e Antonio Nani, Pietro Paolo e Vincenzo Bugeja, etc...! Fortunately most of their music is still preserved in archives 🙃
Usual brilliant video. Particularly appreciated by a musical ignorant like me is that here you are playing a bit more music, rather than relying on the ability of the viewer to "play written music in their head". Thank you, Elam and Sean.
ahaha i was wondering why the opening theme was different! I suppose y'all wrote a partimento of the bassline?
I was looking forward to this video!
thank you this was a great video
Genial!!!!!!! Thank you!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️Thanks !!
Thanks! Always inspiring!
Excellent video!
Thank’s for sharing this!
Thank you Elam, long time no see. In my youth, I hardly progressed to realize continuo when I tries many years ago. But eventually, about 20 years ago I heard about partimenti from my harpsichord mentor. I wanted to find a friendly method to learn how to realize continuo. He introduced me to the lessons of the 18th C Spanish organist Joseph de Torres, almost certain that he was Sephardic. Your masterful and entertaining video reminded me about my feeling that de Torres lessons, were a sort of instructions to fill a rich and diverse pantry where one could find all kind of ingredients to cook all kind of dishes. I loved your friend´s remarks on the Mozart piano concert.
Marvelous video!
Fascinating - thank you so much for this.
Thank you Elam
Amazing! Thank you! (AHHHH!!!!) 💐✨
Super interessante ! Grazie !
As always a great video. Congratulations.
Brilliantly presented, thank you.
Great video, thank you!
5:15 The knowing pain of being a classical period fan and having poor Cimarosa, Paisiello, Sacchini etc, being consigned to the Professor and Marry-Ann status. 😥
Thank you for the information ❗
wonderful video - great editing! I am very grateful.
Brilliant episode thankyou so much
What a lecture!!
Thank you, very useful.
Excellent 👏 More on partimento please!
I find this channel super interesting. The videos are very informative and well presented. Thank you.
Yet again, an absolute gem of a video! Great work!
Really nice video, as usual. Thanks for sharing!❤
Grazie Maestrini!!
Two of the books you highlighted at the end of the video were written by my current music theory teacher!
As a chamber music student, I have been made to do a lot of those partimento exercises you mentioned throughout the video. And I've found that they don't only teach cadences and counterpoint, but also ear training (the skill to be able to hear these cadences and adapt to them within the pieces of music you play or compose), which arguably is the most important skill a musician/composer can have. Great video, I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Yet another fine episode packed with information and humour -- thank you Elam et consortes!
OMG the theme song ♥️
This channel is a treasure chest..!
Absolutely fas - ci - nat - ing stuff‼
Thank you for your contribution to music education!
You are amazing
I feel blessed right know, blessed with knowledge, thank you, I sure enjoyed!
Thx a lot for sharing such precious topics very very very well done !!
Note to self:
2:56 (simple) descending bass realization (also 3:07)
9:11 Moti Del Basso
10:50 Durante's partimento example (12:50 - fragments)
14:45 Fenaroli's example
Wow!!! Such a bridge between the music of the past and the present. Thanks.
Bravo! This video is excellent. It is very well researched and all pieces done musically. Once more I learned a lot! What a jory!
Excellent introduction: clear, simple, great examples, pedagogically perfect. Amazing job!
Wow I haven't heard before about Partimenti, thanks for this video! I'm gonna study them on vacations.
The most expected episode for me :D
16:55 that false relation is so good
Muchas gracias Maestro, Lo mejor de la plataforma TH-cam. ❤
Es un material realmente valioso. Sin duda lo usaré en mis clases. Muchas gracias.
Your graphics are excellent and your explanations are so clear, concise & informative. You could probably do a few videos on HOW you create these phenomenal graphics!! Thank you making this extraordinary hot topic so easy to understand and enjoy!!!🌺💕😊🎶🌟
Really many thanks! Amazing video! In a letter to his mother, Puccini wrote that in the entrance exam at the Milan Conservatory he had, among other, to "accompany a bass, simple and one line long"
Your videos always enlighten. In all my studies of music and music history there was no mention of partimenti and this adds so much more to our understanding of music education in the past. BRAVO!
I especially like the part where the Neapolitan mice are singing.
SUPER as usual. Actually, It would be great to have an episode on Spiridionis (& Co.) and how to mix and match and assemble his patterns into intonations (perhaps using some "passaggi" from other treatises as well. Cheers!
The best ever ... But future will surely tell you can reach even higher !
Groovy! I wish modern life were more conducive (regarding the time and discipline needed) for students to thrive using more traditional instruction like this.
This is my favourite youtube channel, simply amazing!!! does anybody know which edition program he use? Thanks for everything!!
some months ago I was wondering why you didn't have a "partimento" option in the database. thanks!
Always so amazing, funny, deep and based on the sources : many thanks, danke et merci from a french and german FAN !
Wonderful as always! Maybe an episode on the know J.S.Bach method of composition ( going forward to the Beethoven essay on general bass and composition... ) to give us a comparison with the method of the Napolitan Master! :)
I just re-watched this video and am so happy that I finally understand everything you presented. It has been about 2 1/2 years since I first heard of partimento and through TH-cam videos, practicing, reading those books (plus using Job IJZERMAN’s book) and subscribing to Michael Koch, Leonard Schick, Sietze de Vries and Early Music Sources on Patreon, I’ve gained so much understanding of Baroque, Galant and even 19th century music. I never even knew how figured bass worked, never mind unfigured bass but now I’m so clued in when playing repertoire and absolutely love improvising. Thanks for this excellent channel!
Another great video. Where did you get the Kiwi?
Just saying in 15:53 happens something that reminds me of the 21th variation in Bach's Goldbergs. The reason it's similar just is cuz it descends chromatically and there is an identical figure really...
Following his studies in Italy, Froberger was enthusiastic about the Arca Musologica compositional device invented by Athanaseus Kircher. Is there a correlation with Partimento?
Thank you for your inspiring and informative site!
What's the name of the book at 9:31 ?
Thank you so much for this video!!
Im ready to start learning key of C on first line 🥂🥂😆🤗
Great work. A question: the Bach fughetta in d Major BWV 908 can be considered a partimento fugue?
Hi,great video !!! What Is the name of the composer of the Toccate that is played in 06:15?
What is the reason behind notating a piece in A major with two sharps and using an accidental for every G#? Is it to highlight the leading tone? Was this common practice back then? (Regarding the first realization example)
What an amazing voice at 5:40 ... what sort of gas did you inhale?
I'm a classical guitarist and composer. I play the piano at an intermediate level. Should I start practicing this or study more piano before?
As a beginning piano student this is an overwhelming subject. But slowly I'm beginning to understand what it means.
Hi Elam, which book did you use at 9:33? Thank you
0:08 😂Could you also ask Sean Curtice about rehearsed spontaneity?
This was a very good video! I have the impression that the most important compositional "schools" in the 18th century are the Partimenti tradion and the Fux "Gradus...." method. Many composers it seems studied both. Do you know if these two methods were complimentary in any way? Thanks for the great work you do!
They were not complementary. In Naples there was a different way to study counterpoint. On the Learn Partimento channel there's a nice video about this topic.
here is the video th-cam.com/video/8ZcxuwIDFHg/w-d-xo.html
In Italian conservatory composition students are trained this way until nowadays, the first four years we study partimenti (we call them bassi) from the simple to the mostly contrapuntally hard. Then for the next there years we study counterpoint and fugue on fux, cherubini, gedalge or other classical text book. The last three years are devoted to free compositions, sonatas quartets orchestral and vocal pieces... the first seven years you study also composition of more simple piano pieces. Last years there has been some program changes but the basic is more or less the same of the past centuries
Fantastic video as always!
In Italy partimenti is the standard way of teaching the principles of harmony and voice leading. The realization with a homorhythmic texture is required from every student of the conservatoire; composition students have to add fioriture and imitazioni, getting gradually close to the fugato style.
A question for you all: how do non-italians learn this, without partimenti? How can you learn the principles of harmony and voice leading without it? I can't think of anything
but you only compose it or have to play it too? I began studying harmony by imitating Bach chorales. I thought that was the standard
Thank you for the knowledge. Where can I find the material you mentioned at 9:32 ?
This is from Fenaroli's writings. You can find it all here: imslp.org/wiki/Partimenti_di_Fedele_Fenaroli_(Fenaroli%2C_Fedele)
[edition Florence & Milan: Giovanni Canti, c.1850]