Answers to questions I never knew to answer for 40 years. Intuitive and in common practice as industry standards no one has known why mic placements are so sensitive to proximity. Now I finally know why what I've been doing for so long is how I do it. Thanks!
@@AudioUniversity Theory and practice are not two points of view, two ways of knowing, if you will. In fact, there are hundreds of different types of microphone designs and dozens of ways to use them. But in "small music" the ones described by you are used more often.
Some more points: 1. The effect doesn't just affect wanted sounds, it applies to the whole lot, INCLUDING handling noise. If you look at old video clips of professional singers in the 1960s or earlier, you will see that those who handhold are mostly using omnis. And they were trained how to use them properly. Singers nowadays rarely (if ever) have any idea! The old guard of band singers would've expected to be given an omni stick of some sort in the TV studio (or on stage) and there's a range of classic mics that were made just for that, such as the CK2 capsule for AKG C451-series modular mics, and (particularly in the USA) the EV635A, originally a 1960s design (I think - I"m not that old!!!), which is an excellent mic for vocalists. It doesn't have an extremely wide frequency response, and nowadays doesn't look very nice, but it's omni, doesn't distort much when yelled into, and has very little handling noise. They'd wrap the cable in their mic-holding hand, too, to reduce noise further, but I digress: trained singers would help the balance engineer by changing mic distance ("vocal mic technique") to manage their own volume - "fff" bits with the mic around 12-18" away, but quieter bits with the mic a lot closer. Nowadays we have compressors, obviously, but they don't solve the basic problem, and exaggerate bass tip-up (proximity effect) unless you put EQ in the side chain, which gets really messy, needs a decent rehearsal (wot are they?), and is time consuming to get right. Note that you shouldn't actually need a cardioid mic for PA in this context, as the polar pattern doesn't help feedback or colouration (because it's essentially close micing a loud source, you shouldn't have enough gain in the channel to be anywhere close to feedback!), but being omni really does help. It also helps things like p-blasting - you don't get the 'plosive consonants as badly with an omni. Modern, head-worn mics are, or should be omni, too. Again there's no advantage to cardioids in this context, it just increases unwanted noise (my least favourite is beard rustling with those things!). These days singers are mostly used to an SM58 on a stand, and that's OK if they do keep a constant distance and don't take it off to handhold it. If they do take it off the stand, all bets are off. If you work regularly with the same lead singer, and they like to handhold, try a decent omni and see if he/she gets on with it. 2. STC/Coles 4104 "lip ribbon" mics are the gold standard for commentary work (worldwide) at sporting events and anywhere there's extreme amounts background noise. I've seen them used by a presenter standing next to a running jet engine. They were designed to take full advantage of the proximity effect. There's a spring-mounted robust ribbon inside, with external pop shields and a bar to be held against the face above the upper lip. The mic has extreme EQ built-in to make the 'in front of lip' position sound normal, but it dramatically attenuates distant loud sound and handling noise. Although it's a ribbon it's not an exact figure-of-eight, as there's filtering material and the magnet makes a physical barrier on the 'unwanted' side of the ribbon. It's originally a BBC design, and the early ones had a variable equalizer in a wooden case, but this has been greatly simplified and the current design simply has an XLR at the end of the handle - no adjustments needed. There's more to this subject, but this is a too-long comment already. :-)
Cant believe this content which is much more digestable and explained with so much ease, no fillers, and no fat - entirely better explained than a 9 month audio school is… on youtube for free.
Very nice! Thanks brother! I have NT1 mic, and I always had boomy vocals, having better distance between mic got better results, but make sure you don't get too much of room if you increase distance :)
Nice explanation of how proximity effect works. One nitpick. You say at the end that an omnidirectional microphone won't separate a signal from surrounding noise. While it won't separate sounds from a certain direction, it separates close sounds from distant ones in the same way as any other microphone, with distant sounds reduced by the square of the distance - and (as you demonstrate so well) you can place an omnidirectional very close to a sound source without the sound being coloured by proximity effect. The ability to mic so closely can make an omni very good at separating signal from background noise.
Bro, few weeks back i subscribed your channel. I am completely blown away by your Beautiful explanation with awesome diagrams ❤️👌. I read lot on Proximity Effect, but never understood it even 1% of it. Your video made me 100% clear of what actually proximity effect is and why it happens . You are not only knowledgeable but a Great Teacher as well 🙏. World needs more beautiful teachers like you 🙏
I have some doubt about the explanation, but maybe I'm wrong. You say that sound pressure on front of the diaphragm generate positive voltage and negative on the back. You say that a sound coming middle cancels out since it arrives on both at the same time. This is right and indicates that you are adding the front to the back (with back being the front with a change of sign). In my opinion you either: 1) sum the 2 sound pressures/voltages doing the change of sign for the back. 2) subtract the 2 sound pressures/voltages without change of sign. Mathematically it is the same. If you consider what you say at 4:00 with the change of sign you should clearly see that subtracting the low frequency sound, being it pretty much the same front to back, you are doubling it: x-(-x) = 2x. Further more 0.5ms of a delay is really unfortunate being half the period of a 1 khz sound, considering that sin(x+pi) = - sin(x), the sound will cancel out. For what I have seen in another article the delay has to be inferior to half the period of the highest frequency sound or anything could happen. In the same article they talk about difference in sound pressure front to back (they call it pressure gradient) but without the change of the sign and to me it seems right. EDIT: "change of sign", not "change in sign"... sorry english is not my native language (I'm italian).
In an anechoic chamber, the goal is to eliminate all reflections. A studio is usually treated to enhance the sound at a specific position with a blend of absorption and diffusion.
hi, thank you for sharing. Since it seems you are using a cardioid pattern small diaphragm condenser microphone for your speech, may I ask a question? do you think a small diaphragm condenser microphone with cardioid pattern is the best choice for a not acoustically treated room?
For a room with poor acoustics, the best choice is probably a cardioid dynamic mic at close range or a shotgun mic just outside the camera frame. It depends on if you want a microphone on camera or not. I’ve been using a small diaphragm condenser in cardioid just outside the camera frame. However, the echo and reverb in my room is an issue, so I’m currently shopping for a shotgun mic. If I had a better-treated room, I might switch the small diaphragm mic to omni.
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Answers to questions I never knew to answer for 40 years. Intuitive and in common practice as industry standards no one has known why mic placements are so sensitive to proximity. Now I finally know why what I've been doing for so long is how I do it. Thanks!
I’m glad you found it useful, Jon. And thank you for pointing this out - there are two perspectives that are each important, theory and practice!
you didnt know that? ok 40years are a long time but when i started in 2000 screwing with music, EVERY youtuber had a video about that topic allready
@@AudioUniversity Theory and practice are not two points of view, two ways of knowing, if you will. In fact, there are hundreds of different types of microphone designs and dozens of ways to use them. But in "small music" the ones described by you are used more often.
this is the best Proximity Effect video on TH-cam. Trust me, I've looked
Some more points:
1. The effect doesn't just affect wanted sounds, it applies to the whole lot, INCLUDING handling noise. If you look at old video clips of professional singers in the 1960s or earlier, you will see that those who handhold are mostly using omnis. And they were trained how to use them properly. Singers nowadays rarely (if ever) have any idea!
The old guard of band singers would've expected to be given an omni stick of some sort in the TV studio (or on stage) and there's a range of classic mics that were made just for that, such as the CK2 capsule for AKG C451-series modular mics, and (particularly in the USA) the EV635A, originally a 1960s design (I think - I"m not that old!!!), which is an excellent mic for vocalists. It doesn't have an extremely wide frequency response, and nowadays doesn't look very nice, but it's omni, doesn't distort much when yelled into, and has very little handling noise.
They'd wrap the cable in their mic-holding hand, too, to reduce noise further, but I digress: trained singers would help the balance engineer by changing mic distance ("vocal mic technique") to manage their own volume - "fff" bits with the mic around 12-18" away, but quieter bits with the mic a lot closer.
Nowadays we have compressors, obviously, but they don't solve the basic problem, and exaggerate bass tip-up (proximity effect) unless you put EQ in the side chain, which gets really messy, needs a decent rehearsal (wot are they?), and is time consuming to get right.
Note that you shouldn't actually need a cardioid mic for PA in this context, as the polar pattern doesn't help feedback or colouration (because it's essentially close micing a loud source, you shouldn't have enough gain in the channel to be anywhere close to feedback!), but being omni really does help. It also helps things like p-blasting - you don't get the 'plosive consonants as badly with an omni. Modern, head-worn mics are, or should be omni, too. Again there's no advantage to cardioids in this context, it just increases unwanted noise (my least favourite is beard rustling with those things!).
These days singers are mostly used to an SM58 on a stand, and that's OK if they do keep a constant distance and don't take it off to handhold it. If they do take it off the stand, all bets are off. If you work regularly with the same lead singer, and they like to handhold, try a decent omni and see if he/she gets on with it.
2. STC/Coles 4104 "lip ribbon" mics are the gold standard for commentary work (worldwide) at sporting events and anywhere there's extreme amounts background noise. I've seen them used by a presenter standing next to a running jet engine.
They were designed to take full advantage of the proximity effect. There's a spring-mounted robust ribbon inside, with external pop shields and a bar to be held against the face above the upper lip. The mic has extreme EQ built-in to make the 'in front of lip' position sound normal, but it dramatically attenuates distant loud sound and handling noise. Although it's a ribbon it's not an exact figure-of-eight, as there's filtering material and the magnet makes a physical barrier on the 'unwanted' side of the ribbon. It's originally a BBC design, and the early ones had a variable equalizer in a wooden case, but this has been greatly simplified and the current design simply has an XLR at the end of the handle - no adjustments needed.
There's more to this subject, but this is a too-long comment already. :-)
Long, and very informative, thank you.
Cant believe this content which is much more digestable and explained with so much ease, no fillers, and no fat - entirely better explained than a 9 month audio school is… on youtube for free.
Wow! Thanks for the kind words, Avec Plaisir! I’m glad you’re enjoying the content!
Very nice! Thanks brother! I have NT1 mic, and I always had boomy vocals, having better distance between mic got better results, but make sure you don't get too much of room if you increase distance :)
Nice explanation of how proximity effect works. One nitpick. You say at the end that an omnidirectional microphone won't separate a signal from surrounding noise. While it won't separate sounds from a certain direction, it separates close sounds from distant ones in the same way as any other microphone, with distant sounds reduced by the square of the distance - and (as you demonstrate so well) you can place an omnidirectional very close to a sound source without the sound being coloured by proximity effect. The ability to mic so closely can make an omni very good at separating signal from background noise.
You really know what you're saying. I keep watching your video's over, and over again. Thanks Kyle!
This is the 4th video I found on the Proximity Effect, and the first that actually features a demonstration of how it sounds. Thank you!
Bro, few weeks back i subscribed your channel. I am completely blown away by your Beautiful explanation with awesome diagrams ❤️👌. I read lot on Proximity Effect, but never understood it even 1% of it. Your video made me 100% clear of what actually proximity effect is and why it happens . You are not only knowledgeable but a Great Teacher as well 🙏. World needs more beautiful teachers like you 🙏
Awesome video. You have a gift for taking complex subjects and explaining them in simple terms.
you don't always want to avoid it. PE can be very useful in emphasizing low end instead of applying equalization. @6:44
What a very well thought out video. Thank you.
Great info. Well explained. Thank you.
Kyle your Video are super informative and interesting, your way of teaching and visual represaentation are admirable !
Thanks, @Gal Niss! Glad you enjoyed it.
good explanation. The phase shift and frequency cancellation jogged my physics memory lol
Great presentation style and articulation. Hi from Melbourne Australia.
Thanks, Anthony!
Nicely explained
I actually knew today about this so deeply
As usual, great video! Thanx for sharing ur knowledges with us.
Most informative and direct video. Great video
I have some doubt about the explanation, but maybe I'm wrong.
You say that sound pressure on front of the diaphragm generate positive voltage and negative on the back.
You say that a sound coming middle cancels out since it arrives on both at the same time.
This is right and indicates that you are adding the front to the back (with back being the front with a change of sign).
In my opinion you either:
1) sum the 2 sound pressures/voltages doing the change of sign for the back.
2) subtract the 2 sound pressures/voltages without change of sign.
Mathematically it is the same.
If you consider what you say at 4:00 with the change of sign you should clearly see that subtracting the low frequency sound, being it pretty much the same front to back, you are doubling it: x-(-x) = 2x.
Further more 0.5ms of a delay is really unfortunate being half the period of a 1 khz sound, considering that sin(x+pi) = - sin(x), the sound will cancel out.
For what I have seen in another article the delay has to be inferior to half the period of the highest frequency sound or anything could happen.
In the same article they talk about difference in sound pressure front to back (they call it pressure gradient) but without the change of the sign and to me it seems right.
EDIT: "change of sign", not "change in sign"... sorry english is not my native language (I'm italian).
good explaination, thank you 👍👍👍
you need more views like millions.
Thanks, @gxtsbyomo! Please help make that happen by sharing videos with friends and groups!
Thank you for your keen knowledge.
Another great video - you are a really good presenter
Thanks!
Great explanation brother thanks for the tips
Thanks for the video. Pls does applying a high pass filter on a mixer remove or reduce this effect ?
Great explanation. Thank you. 🙂
I like it because there is not a loving option. And subscribed, of course.
Thanks, Javier!
Very useful full
Please explain different between anachoic chamber recording and studio recording.
In an anechoic chamber, the goal is to eliminate all reflections. A studio is usually treated to enhance the sound at a specific position with a blend of absorption and diffusion.
hi, thank you for sharing. Since it seems you are using a cardioid pattern small diaphragm condenser microphone for your speech, may I ask a question? do you think a small diaphragm condenser microphone with cardioid pattern is the best choice for a not acoustically treated room?
For a room with poor acoustics, the best choice is probably a cardioid dynamic mic at close range or a shotgun mic just outside the camera frame. It depends on if you want a microphone on camera or not.
I’ve been using a small diaphragm condenser in cardioid just outside the camera frame. However, the echo and reverb in my room is an issue, so I’m currently shopping for a shotgun mic. If I had a better-treated room, I might switch the small diaphragm mic to omni.
@@AudioUniversity thank you
Very informative Thx
Nice
That's why I don't like a vocal mic with 20 20 response 80 20 vocal works better
What mics do you use for your sound sources?