It's amazing how common sense has because such a rare commodity that a man like Jordan Peterson has become so huge so quickly. Great job reminding the world logic and reason is not quite dead. Thank you!
He has said that what he says isn't political at all. It's just rational thought relates more to conservatism, so the left hates him. He's definitely a favorite to listen to.
Jakob Littell you’re gonna be fine, if that didn’t trigger you (even though it was annoying), welcome to the liberal non-radical portion of his viewer base. We do fine here
Jakob Littell The problem with being a leftist right now is your party is hijacked. I voted Obama twice cause I was lied to and believed it. The left is the party of Islam apologists anti free speech anti guns and he rights to an abortion. All 4 of those things are atrocious. And I don’t think abortion should be illegal I just do not think it should be tax payer funded when it’s considered immoral by so many. That would be like taxpayer funded censorship. I strongly recommend you see he movie Death of a Nation. It will open your eyes. I consider myself a classical liberal but don’t ever say that to my friends cause I don’t wanna be associated with modern liberals because most people don’t really know what classical liberal means.
I appreciate the discussions you've had with Sam Harris. I started following his work 10+ yrs ago, around the time I was following Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennet and Richard Dawkins' work. I think it's important for all of us to get used to the idea that we can agree on many, many points with another person, while also having a few disagreements and it's admirable that you didn't throw Harris under the bus when asked about your differences of opinion. I'm getting a lot from the many viewpoints expressed by you and others in the 'Dark Web' and agree that we've been awfully shortchanged by the MSM because of their particular conflicts of interest and time constraints. I will, however, always appreciate the press in general as a crucial part of any healthy Democracy. Thanks for this discussion, Jordan; I hope you're feeling as well as you look and wish you much peace and health going forward.
That would be the goal and one I'm frankly not ready for yet. I'm a strong believer in Democracies and seeing it presently under attack by fascists who seem to care little for the 'common man', doesn't compel me to hear out anyone against it. Just being honest about myself, here. It's worthy of debate, but not at this time for me, whether it's from communists or anyone else.
Responsibility being the missing piece makes so much sense because that's the one thing kids haven't been raised with since the '70s. My parents loved me and encouraged me in my endeavors, but they never did much to instill a sense of responsibility in me. It took me decades of huge mistakes and a stint in the Navy to activate those circuits. So I think it makes sense that this generational malfunction is actually a developmental disorder.
6 months before finding Jordan Peterson, I began working on an educational intervention targeting kids (I am a martial arts teacher) that focuses on practical wisdom and developing a high-resolution lens through which to view and interact with the world - something quite obviously missing from the general education environment. This was precisely, as you mentioned because I started seeing disordered development manifest with increasing rapidity and scope. His lectures and talks have helped round out the program as have many of the books he recommends and tons of additional research into various scientific disciplines which, without discovering JP, I normally wouldn't have thought to investigate as thoroughly. It's nice to discover other people noticing that this domain needs some "awake and alert updating."
Raised in the 80's and 90's... I was taught plenty of responsibility and work ethic... But I was never taught Real, Useful, and Applicable lessons, or, the "How To's" of our social order. Mostly because my parents hadn't actually figured any of that out either. Instead of being taught "real methods" of managing personal finances, I was Occasionally "told" that I "should" save money... all the while, being "shown" that living in the moment and going to the beach were more important. And being told Regularly that "It's only money, you can't take it with you", and then at the moment of every financial hardship I would hear, "God has a plan", and "Everything happens for a reason"... Simply Useless Platitudes... Not only financial, but in terms of relationships, self-honesty, etc.. etc.. Fyi... No, there was no god that ever came through with any plan... My mother is still broke-ass-poor (nearly all of my family are poor and un-healthy for that matter), and I went through more than a decade of mistakes before finally figuring out what "I" was doing wrong because I was never taught real applicable methods for anything. I had been raised with "boundaries", "responsibility", "work ethic", "empathy", "compassion", "love", "respect", "humility".... and every bit of that seemed to always be coupled with "God", "Shame", "Fear", and "Wishful Thinking (prayer)"... Sounds good... right??? Turns out that all of that is useless with-out ALSO being taught "HOW" to navigate the various elements of our daily lives. To clarify, I agree with the first 8 items in my list... but the last four can ALL be replaced by Education. In any case, my point is that it's not "entirely" an issue of responsibility.
See my post above - what you've described captures the essence of what I've been working on and will be launching with my students this fall. Funny how well the descriptions almost match - the program/course/system is called "Aims, Games, and Fair Play" with a description like "Integrating the Fundamentals of Practical Life Wisdom and Behavior." For kids, it's the lessons. For adults, it's the "things to be aware of concerning childhood development and how to support, encourage, and teach this stuff to your kids." It seems to be that thing (or combination of things) that every parent wants for their kids and that is seldom if ever taught in school. Something which nobody seems to have really nailed down in a way that's digestible (communicable) to adolescents so that it is interesting/engaging (for it to actually stick).
Realist Well, the obvious disagreement would be based on Peterson being a strong individualist, and Jared being a strong identitarian. With that, Peterson's argument would most likely revolve around Jared Taylor's idea of voluntary segregation. To this Peterson would say something along the lines of Segregation leads to separation of peoples, along with ideals, values, culture etc. Geographical differences, as well as differences that arise as a consequence of the aforementioned would lead to tribalism among the races. This tribalism can erupt into violence if the circumstances are favourable. Segmentation of a given area has it's own problems, as we saw with the balkans.
Dr. Peterson, please consider discussing the situation in South Africa and more specifically of the Afrikaaner Boer peoples. They are starting to prepare for the seizure of Kulak land. My main question is; Do we have a moral obligation to resist this Marxist policy that would likely bring about the destruction of our economy and will cause famine and the possible creation of a totalitarian dictatorship. It seems that reason and diplomacy has and will continue to fail. Do we resist which would inevitably lead to bloodshed and civil war or do we call it a day and get out of the country? I am currently torn by this dilemma and currently in a state of inaction either way. I am not alone in this feeling.
While I have no easy answers: if your neighbor insists on shooting himself in the gut, will it ultimately solve things to take away his freedom to do so? I'm not sure also that the only alternative is to all leave. Independence on a limited part of the land should be considered as well. I don't like ideas of effective racial nationalism, but it may be a lesser evil if tensions do get that high. Finally, it is worth considering that white people still own most land in SA, and that ain't their personal merit, obviously. Generational land-ownership is something we should examine in seriousness, without just being idiotic marxists who smash the system and then fall into the lava themselves.
This was always going to happen sooner or later when apartheid ended. Surprising it took this long. I feel sorry for the Afrikaaners and from what I have seen they will likely die on their land rather than leave it. And when they are finally dispossessed then SA will starve and many more will die. As an Australian I can tell you that most on the centre and right are very sympathetic to the plight. But everybody on the left is quite happy to see Afrikaaners stripped of their land and left to die. The Afrikaaners are traditionally seen as oppressors by the left so they get what they deserve. Its like the far left literally hate white skin.
A big problem is that fact that there are a lot of sophists who push a lot of misinformation about the history of South Africa and the Afrikaner people. We are at a point where there is open and blatant racism towards Afrikaner's and whites in general. The expropriation machine is driven not by the desire to help the people of South Africa but a desire to break down and destroy Afrikaner spirit and their desires for self determination. For the most part Afrikaners just want to be left alone and to be happy but they are being painted as a people who are driven by racism and supremacy which is a lie. The only problem is that the Afrikaner spirit has not been broken in 360 years, not by the British, not But the Zulus, not by the desert or the farm attacks. If anything the flame grows larger and stronger. Which is a good thing but its also a bad thing because they will never submit. If their land is stolen they will undoubtedly go with the scorched earth policy and go down swinging.
Hello, I seem to have trouble finding up to date sources about this South African catastrophe. Google is not helping me. Does anybody have any useful primary sources?
@The Sunshine Group - Try Afriforum. Im not sure why your google isnt showing current SA news. Thats very suspicious. Just google "South Africa News" you should be presented with a myriad of current articles.
Great stuff from Peterson; and what a man for these times. I was living rough in my teens, had a very hard time as a young man, finally learned the basic elements of these lessons (which are very ancient, and to me function almost like natural law - transcending time and place) in my late 30s. Peterson helps us all by speaking to something that lays in all of us, directing us to a human heritage that - if we attend to it - gives way-markers to our best selves. And he does it with greater wisdom and sophistication than anyone I've ever seen or read. It must have been a tough but so rewarding journey through life for him, too.
For last couple of years I live in Russia. I’m so agree with dr.Peterson in everything he says, especially about the consequences of radical left revolution in Russia in 20th. Dear lefties, in here it echoes so terrifyingly painful even now hundred years from that events. If you really want to see what it’s like - your beloved equalization, come here, but not to Moscow or Saint Petersburg, any other city. This places are like wounded animals which are really really hard to heal. Thank you dr.Peterson for sharing your views and wisdom.
The current state of the Russian suburbs and small cities is caused ONLY by the USSR collapse. The "bloody" Soviets was the only thing that brought medicine, education, and manufactories to the small cities and villages. Now, of course, 27 years later, you can see the results. Don't blame the socialism for the sins of capitalism.
I'm so grateful that God has allowed you to be on a mountain top and to spread the knowledge you have with the humble spirit you show. I look forward to the continuation of your biblical series lectures, if you decide to continue it of course. I know you're awfully busy but perhaps once your next book is out you would consider it. Thank you JP!
Thank you for taking the time to help make a turn-around in our confused society. Screaming and yelling, destroying and hating only puts a barrier up for the hurting person. It's so difficult to listen, only to act out. I believe that some of your success in getting such an audience is your ability to stay in the present to make your conversation persuasive.
Incredibly eye opening discussion; I've been following JBP for some time now but this discussion pulled it together for me in a way he hasn't in the past. Thank you mister Peterson.
Jordan, You talk about "taking risk" by engaging in public discussion. I was at your Winnipeg show recently. I had the most up-voted question from the audience which implored you to address the criticism coming from the Majority Report with Sam Seder. This and many other politically controversial questions were deleted by Dave or some other person (censoring?). I believe some of the criticism from the left is well-founded. Nonetheless, I stand by you as a supporter and firmly believe in many of your ideas. Overall, your youtube work and published work has had a tremendously beneficial effect on many people. I ask you to once again consider in taking risk by inviting them to an open debate or addressing their constant and obsessive criticism of you on the youtube platform. Regards, A Fan
^ Ah yes, your average 21st century internet atheist. Tell me, are you in your Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris phase right now? Don't worry you will grow up like I did.
SKRRT SKRRT SKRRT lol... Hoping I can get your opinion on something, as you seem to have traversed the spectrum. How should one characterize oneself, who values both the atheistic views of Dawkins/Harris and the religious views of the Peterson/Shapiro pretty much equally?
Amanda J Tycer : The beholder of wisdom!, close to the top of the hill;) The city of god is the place where untruth has no place The city of god is the place where we all take total responsibility by speaking the truth and going our uniquest way. So, we contribute the best and the most meaningful to the city of god which is nothing less than the united souls being what they are and should be, all under the guidance of the most inner truth which is identical with the truth of god, the logos, the Christ. The untruth is the darkish, the divider, the separator, the EGO, which is twisting truth to a lie, whereas taking your personal burden in dignity means, to carry it against all temptations of the often easier ways of egoistic lies. The city of god is the place where untruth has no place and the ego is nonexistent. We all have a long way to go. For christians this means, don't talk about Christ with your lips only, speak it with the depth of your heart and more important, follow his example of truth and responsibility at all costs, like he did. He is waiting on that hill, to hug all sisters and brothers stumbling up to the top of truth, to the Logos, to God.
The dichotomy of being both the oppressor and the oppressed contained within each individual is the take away for me here. Extremely fascinating to contemplate. Thank you.
may i ask if mr peterson ever talked bout "coudenhove-kalergi, practical idealism" ? pls link if he did, if not pls mail him. thats quite important to understand whats going on in europe. for example. merkel got the kalergi award for her works. i hope itll help, keep educating guys.
Circa 14:30 David Fuller says that Sam Harris isn't arguing his atheist morality in good faith, that Harris is merely clinging on to his ideas because he's invested so much time and effort into arguing them in all these books. This is precisely what I don't like about the more _public_ fans of JBP: the ridiculous slanders that they come up with about JBP's ideological opponents and interlocutors. Can any of you who are making noise in Peterson's impressive wake, particularly the theists, be fair about the depth and integrity of some of these disagreements, instead of engaging in this SJW-like "psychologizing" of the people making the counterargument? :\
In every following there is going to be a vocal minority of possessed fans who respond to criticism defensively and reflexively. There's no way to completely stop it from happening but I do think those people are a minority and not representative of most Peterson, Harris, or IDW followers. I'd like to point out that neither "fan" nor "follower" are appropriate but I don't know what word would be a better fit. Fan implies a whimsical interest and our interest in this intellectual movement is anything but whimsical. Followers implies a blind loyalty that for the most part isn't present either. People generally seem to consider things very critically even from these public figures they greatly respect.
@bbattlemode I believe that "fan" comes from "fanatic", which is anything but a whimsical attraction. A fanatic adheres to the doctrine and considers unbelievers to have failed a moral test, which is about right for Fuller's critique of Sam Harris. In that moment, Fuller is being a fanatic of either theism or JPB, not a critic of Harris. I'd say that I'm a _fan_ of JBP's writing and speaking--I like it and seek out more--but not a _fanatic_ in any way that I can tell, so the words have clearly diverged in meaning for me.
"This is precisely what I don't like about the more public fans of JBP: the ridiculous slanders that they come up with about JBP's ideological opponents and interlocutors." There is a lot of that from some of the anti-Peterson crowd as well. I have no tolerance for anyone using such tactics on any side of an argument. It is painful having to wade through the noise generated by the crackpots to find legitimate discussion. I see much value, many strengths and some weaknesses in the ideas raised by both Peterson and Harris. I consider them both to be valuable resources for prompting me to think about issues for myself. I don't expect any public intellectual to be right about everything, to not have the odd idea that is a bit whiffy, or to have views that agree 100% with what I think I know or that perfectly match my education and life experience. They are useful sources of information to evaluate, compare with and challenge what I think I know, they point me to ideas I might want to explore next. As for the "fans", Harris and Peterson have huge followings. A small percentage of the general population exhibits personality disorders, suffers from mental illness and/or subscribes to crackpot ideas. Those individuals could number 100's or several thousand for any public figure that you could name. If they turn out to be more vocal than the majority on social media, they will seem to be representative, but this is an illusion. A public figure can have 10's of thousands of followers on Twitter, but for the most part only a dozen or so ever reply to their posts at any given time.
Has a point though. Would you after 10 years of work suddenly reject it because of what some new guy on the scene has to say? I mean Harris is esteemed as a rationalist but we all have our emotional defects, especially when it comes to work which we have poured sweat and tears into...I'm not saying Harris is failing to argue in good faith but Fuller makes a good point.
I agree - we can't ever truly know someone's intent unless they tell us specifically what it is. Even in that case it is quite possibly false - people lie to themselves all the time. It requires a lot of introspection or therapy to even know oneself well enough to make those conclusions. It is absolutely pretentious to prescribe concrete motives and intent to specific individuals. Theorizing can be another matter, particularity when we are discussing cause and effect (i.e. "could group or person X outward behavior be a result of policy Y enacted by such-and-such administration") but highly depends on the context. I've seen this behavior in every group/team/faction/party of people with a strongly held shared belief. It tends to be a human trait, rather than a political one. I think one of the most productive things we can do is to call this and other hypocrisies out within our own circles - it's something we might actually have the ability to impact on an individual level. We are often afraid of alienating ourselves from our peer groups, but we learn a lot when this happens. This can only be done, I think, once someone has spent some time contemplating their own motives and goals, as such criticism should be offered with the proper intent and thoughtfulness to have beneficial results.
What a fantastic discussion! I've taken away a great deal from this as well as lots to think about. This is precisely why freedom of speech is so important for the progression of thoughts and ideas
It seems to me when I was younger the time between commercials on television was longer. At some point years ago I remember people talking about viewers not having an attention span and More and more shows would keep jumping around to so-called keep the audience interested. Personally I kind of think that they just wanted to have more commercials, and they wanted people to be educated less. They wanted to train people’s attention spans to be shorter. I don’t know I could be wrong. It seems to me over 30 years ago we had more cerebral television. I’m talking about American television.
I think it was in the 70's that Sartre wrote a screenplay for the biographical film about Freud, the american Film company sent it back asking for it to be made shorter because it would amount to a 5 hour film. Sartre sent it back longer even asking wether the people in Texas have gone so dumb that they can't concentrate for longer than an hour. In the end the film makers shortened it themselves and Sartre refused his named be used for it.
My room was always a pigsty. But after watching a few Peterson videos I was literally compelled to clean my room better than I have in my life. It’s immaculate.
The attraction to Dr. Peterson's message is that it comes on a secular "plate", filled with non-ambiguous and non-judgmental sageness that is clearly laid out for maximum cognitive reception. It nicely fits into my belief system, Christian, which goes something like this: You are what you eat. Looking forward to his lecture, which I will be attending with my daughter, in September.
Someone who accepts the maximal amount of responsibility is much more able (and likely willing) to help others bare their burdens. It is a religious principal that is so often missed the connection is almost never made. Jordan's last answer shows this principal so succinctly that I believe it deserves a full video just unpacking that idea.
I really like what you said about Maslows Heirarchy of Needs here, but I think a clarification should be made. Yes, self actualization is not restricted to people who do not have all the needs below the peak met, and as you said this is obvious from the well known idea that privation builds character, but I think we should distinguish between what people are primarily motivated by, and what conditions are conducive to self actualization. Maslows heirarchy is a faulty tool for heuristically guessing what category of motivations a person might be pre-occupied with most if you know at what level other needs are being met, but it does not limit the capability of self actualization to any group. This is to say that the motivation to self actualize and the actual result of self actualization should be distinguished. It might even be the case that the two are at odds with one another, perhaps similar to the way in which aiming directly for happiness is not a good way to attain it. Maybe self actualization is more of a by-product of other processes.
The popularity of the 1981 Movie 'My Dinner with Andre' foreshadowed the phenomenon of the long form internet discussion.It was always there, that yearning for intelligent discussion.Sunday morning talk shows like The McLaughlin Group were a stopgap.
I appreciate you Dr. Peterson, but I have to point out that you didn’t give Maslow’s hierarchy of needs a fair shake. It’s specifically theory of human motivation not a theory of moral development which shouldn't be conflated. “Self Actualization” at the top of pyramid is not the same self empowerment or personal actualization as measured by social status. “The rich are morally superior” is a total misread of Maslow’s meaning of self actualization which has nothing to do with money, wealth or affluence. Its about being all you can be and realizing that potential according to one’s values sphere which may or may not include being rich.
My attention span is about three to four hours straight, with good speakers such as yourself. With bad ones several minutes. PS: I started listening to long talks on TH-cam in 2008 I think. Several hours of Terence McKenna workshops and Coast To Coast AM programs. I had a blast.
Brilliant man. 10 more people know about you than they did, I gave them your book. Dammit! Now I have to buy another one. The last one I gave away, my own, get the best response. Keep it up JP.
Every time I watch Peterson, he impresses me. It’s not just his intellect, though, which is incredibly impressive. It’s his integrity and honesty and humility. I don’t understand the political climate in which this man is controversial. It’s amazing.
There was something very chilling about the last answer he gave. I think it was the realisation of how far removed the attributes of my character are from those of the inhabitants of the City of God. Ideals and goals have always pulled and enticed me towards improvement, but the ideal Dr. Peterson presents here pushes as much as it pulls. Pulling by the obvious nobility of the ideal, aided by the push of what I now fully comprehend as the "unbearable present" (me, as I perceive myself now) he has mentioned before. It's such an unnerving, compelling mix of fear and admiration.
@@AllOtherNamesUsed he believes in God in his own way that nothing can become from nothing, but offcours I do believe that he doesn't believe in church nor the god image that church paints in it superficial way
JBP, wonderful interview, great insight, as always. Also, so glad to see you're figuring out how to keep your feet on the ground through the tidal wave. I've been afraid you'd get sucked into the vortex of ego and turn this wave into cult of personality. That's a temptation few can resist. Good to see you, looking so well.
And let me say this: Jordan Peterson is a torch of light for this world. I'm personally so grateful for everything he does. I admire the courage to go out and speak the truth, because truth shall never be feared. My excuse since 20 years was "I have a family, I can't risk to speak out". Seeing him gracefully deconstruct so many bad things in our society, makes me feel a bit ashamed of myself, and yet very glad, that there is one, who stood up, and, hopefully, at least more likeminded people to wake up and speak out as well. I predict, so many people's lifes will be filled with purpose again, simply by this cause.
Europeans, quit this identity game! No need to advocate for your own people or own culture, just steadfastly stick to individualism. But, you will be taken advantage of by immigrants and you WILL lose your society and everything you've fought for because those immigrants WILL and DO practise hardcore identity politics and they WILL and DO specifically advocate for THEIR group over YOUR group!! Enjoy your virtuous non-identity politics but lose your civilization. Jordan is DEAD WRONG on this issue. He talks about loving European civilization but he's essentially advocating against group identity even though whites are the ONLY group who aren't into group identity but the only group that NEEDS identity politics. Jordan, if European people follow your advice, you grandkids will never get to visit the Europe civilization you currently love but only a 3rd world shithole in its place. ps I still like a lot of what he says though in assessing the crazy left, indoctrinated media & academia, and the incompatibility of Islam
You step with empty of time tested backing to a fucking genius. Gutsy. Change your language dont do, absolutes. Dead wrong. Here is a destriction of that argument. Europeans are identified by more than borders. I think you are maybe assuming the british are europeans or finalizing with the brits as the final example for your results. They are not europeans, because they have so much more in contrast and so few in common with what europeans when comparing each other and the reverse is true too, like if any european compares it self to th british the all have less in common with england and this less in common is across the board. Not put england in the equation always, if you do the tearm european is not able to be solid because they individually are so significant 50% of what the term european will be changed to be correct and also include england. Traditional across the board is basically the same in meaning + 1or 2 uniquely odd addition to each usually quickly and turned into inhibition breakers they are used to joke about one another and also uniquely the joke can be insulting but at the same time, the insulted can let it slide, becaue they can take pride in the fact that, the one insulting at least he knew, what MY IDENTITI is and how we do it here. An example polka dots, quilts, wooden shoes…ect. This is also in foods, and go along these lines and u will see its identity without any comprise. England has absolutely no way to even get its foot in the door to resemble as part of europe, when they have all so much in common its even easy for the to have more in common with each other in their amount and the ways to go about life. So, europeans love and love to hate one another it best decribed as a bond that identiti is so imoortant and so inter woven that it may seem to many that its not important or even that its present, like hidden in plain sight. Ya ya spelling its the machines they suck and so do i, also u i don destroy yout argument but i do because i dent it and when absolute gets dent its destroyed. So i did destroy it.
Everyone murdered in the holocaust was an individual - so it's not wrong for individuals to band together against violent malevolence: and in Europe the public, political violence comes from Islamism. Britain, Holland, France, Italy and Denmark have each seen public writers murdered or attempts at murder made by Islamists (let alone other attacks such as bombings of trains and children's concerts, massacres in cafes, trucks ploughing through crowds, etc.). No other ideology is doing that in Europe. No other ideology is even coming close to _trying_ to do that.
Ethics aside: playing identity politics as whites in Europe is a lost game. Since Hitler, we have no such option, we paint a massive target on us. Better to stick to individualism, that is something we should still be able to carry politically. And I have no doubt that - given that we offer what you look for - you'll join those efforts when it comes to the voting booth. Just know that while we can stand for your rights... the second you do divide by race, we must take our distance, and the moment you engage in violence, we cannot protect you.
The liberal order must be maintained at all costs. The revolution is never over. Hail, the power formerly behind the one, is now behind the many. If you can tell me who the revolution is supposed to be against, good for you, I suppose.
Responsibility---Do you have the ability? How will you respond?---You responded you have the ability, faith in yourself and your skills to bring about a better outcome than would have been without you, giving you meaning and purpose.
Maslow cited material needs as the base necessity for human fulfilment, but then progressed to things like security and emotional support etc. It's not a strict material progression that he equated with self-actualisation. As far as I know
It's not just youtube, it's 100s of govt and ngo groups working with youtube/google. I did a lengthy eye-opening blogpost with all the reports and screenshots exposing how we're being overrun by bots, shills and spooks called Cyber Thuggery (blog link atop my channel). They can artificially boost or suppress the numbers thus pick the winners and losers. Everything is rigged beyond imagination. Although that may or may not be the case here.
Jordan B Peterson's ability to communicate concept and meaning is both hypnotic and brilliant ! I think he is a real healer. I am so grateful to be alive in his time.
Wish it wasn't so short, the last question needed a follow up for the "purpose of taking on life's burdens & traversing up the hill" is that it makes us stronger (more appealing people), straightens our steps & prepares us for life's obstacles. (Just my armchair philosophizing).
I can only speak on my own behalf but I don't think it's just long conversations I (the listener) am interested in, I just want to learn, develop and improve myself.
I am an ex-Christian. I'm reasonably intelligent (at least average I think), I read the Bible at 8 out of interest and I asked my parents take me to many Churches on Sundays. All my life my understanding of the Bible was that it was of a metaphorical nature. If I read a passage that sounded illogical, cruel or crude I read it over and over looking for a deeper meaning. My assumption was that truth and meaning was encapsulated in these stories, and I still think that. I didn't know what fundamentalism was until early puberty, and when I discovered it I despised it; A thoroughly corrupted and arrogantly oversimplified distortion of what I considered a divine source of wisdom. I came to the conclusion that it was more sophisticated than the average pundit would care to ponder, and that a deeper tribal sense of belonging to a simple dogmatic view continuously prevails over a humble enlightened reading. I like Jesus as a character, I think society has benefited from elevating him as a figure worth emulating the altruistic and egalitarian characteristics of, but I have to contend that from my life experience Harris's position is far more tenable. I think Peterson has predominantly been exposed to intelligent people in his academic and clinical professions, and he overestimates the ability of the modern common tribal fundamentalist and underestimates Christianity's propensity to encourage it. Either that, or he sees the core tenets of liberalism as a derivative of Christian philosophy, and that if we substitute fact-based rationality for that we might dissolve the foundations of liberalism as well. A conceivable assumption, but I would like him to take more swings against fundamentalism. Otherwise I'm totally on Harris's side.
And you would be correct. But it is not untainted; through 2000 yrs, translation after translation, corrupt keepers, corrupt organizations, contributions and understandings through hundreds of different cultures, what's left probably isn't too far from a Tony Robbins book or a comic book. And it was never divine, meaning any Truths that are in there are from the mind of a man.
Jordán please try to subtitle your videos in Spanish or other languages. A lot of people over the world would like to understand your reflections. Thanks ...
NO DOOT ABOOT IT! NO DOOT ABOOT IT! Good Ol Small town Albertan Boy accent coming through strong, Gotta love it 18:56 Much love to you from a guy born and raised in a small town in Alberta (Tofield) Keep up the good work Jordan! Sincerely David Martin
I think it would add definition to think of groups of hierarchies. Monetary wealth is a hierarchy, but there are some or many related hierarchies that contribute to the end result of monetary wealth.
Group identity is built on similarities and builds on that leverage to others or groups. Jordan I started following based on your ambition and your way to look for answers from others. It's interesting on how some get mad by not understanding you. Keep it up, I hope I get the opportunity to meet you one-day.
On the other hand, Dr. Peterson, one could argue that rich people (the ones that end up being rich starting from the bottom) are "morally" superior to those that remain poor BECAUSE the system that makes them rich, capitalism, is essentially a win-win situation (the ones that serve the needs of more people get to have more money). I used quotation marks around the word "morally" for some would say that "serving/meeting the needs of others" does not make you, automatically, a moral entity. But isn't that a proper definition?
Dr. Peterson, at the age of 56 am I to old to educated myself. The amount of books you suggest for reading would seem like a life time to read all that material. ? Have I missed my change at a real interpretation of the world by just learning a trade.
Don't be so humble Dr Peterson. When this all started I remember thinking it was great that someone was standing up for us, but the left would tear you down quickly and you'd apologise. They didn't, you didn't, and your subsequent story has been one of the most meaningful events of my life. (And I watched The Wall come down and Mandela walk free) Don't underestimate your bravery and don't underestimate what your stance means to all of us.
I'm slow-reading Twelve Rules. There has been so much fuckery happening around me. I was comforted by the knowledge that the book was being shipped to my bookstore - an antidote to chaos.
I think the long form discussion started a lot longer than TH-cam. I'd say it started with Howard Stern and long form sports radio shows like Mike and the Mad Dog where they'd be on for hours. And specifically when those shows started being broadcasted on TV, which was kind of unheard of. But I definitely remember watching Mike and the Mad Dog or Stern for hours. Granted their topics were much more low brow, but still Howard Stern was much more like Joe Rogan than he was like other DJs or even shock jocks. He really did try to have honest conversations, as opposed to the corporate shills like the Top 20 DJs
He is cuttig through to the important changes and the possibility of positive consequences of them every time I listen to him. The only way he can do that is to be on the right track! We need to see solutions not drown in despare! Thank you!
I've been listening to Jordan for almost 2 years, ever since the Bill 16-C discussion at UoT. I would love to hear something new from Dr. Peterson, is it safe to say that most of what he has said for the past year(?) in interviews of this format has been rehashed and repetition? Is anyone else also longing for JBP to share some fresh thoughts and insights on important matters? Perhaps take a short break from public appearance in order to investigate scientific papers and reports that he can share with us. I'm getting a bit tired from having to listen to the same "old" ideas over and over, any other long-time listeners chime in on this. :)
Professor Peterson, thank you for this interview! You gave a pretty profound answer there at the end, with The City of God, and I'm wondering, have you read St. Augustine's City of God?
Dear dr Peterson. I have a question. I know you're probably terribly busy, so if you don't find the time to answer, no harm done. I've been watching your lectures since day one, and bought Maps of Meaning several years ago. I found it greatly fascinating (not easy though, as English is my third language). That book (and your lectures) is the reason why i'm not as strident an atheist as i once was. You've talked a great deal about authoritarian threats. I tend to agree with you on most of that. But my question is: why do you focus so much on the left? Realistically, the right holds most of the power globally. Europe, the US, the UK, Russia. Most of the world's goverments are predominantly rightleaning (not saying full on extreme right, ofcourse). Why focus on those 16, 17 year old far left students? They have no real power. You yourself have said that this journey to the far left has been going on for thirty years, yet still our governments are predominantly right leaning. It would appear that in those 30 years, nothing of real substance has been achieved by far left students. Students grow up. And usually they grow out of their delusional worldviews. Have you read Madeleine Allbrights book on Fascism? It's not only about the dangers of the far right, also about the dangers of the left and ofcourse the failure to communicate. What it demonstrates though, is that we ought to be wary about the right as well as the left at all times, and both in equal amount. As i've said, most of the real power remains with the right. And projections illustrate that this isn't goinng to change anytime soon. On the contrary, even the far right is rising very quickly. With many people switching from central right to right or far right because of the perceived issues of immigration in a time where we actually have it better than most of the time. So, TLDR, why the focus on the left, while the left is actually weak and the right is almost as strong as it's ever been?
Mr. Peterson are you planing on doing second show in Helsinki, or perhaps a bigger venue? I think first venue was sold out in a day... (no ticket for me:'()
The downside of hierarchies are really a function of the limitations of humanity in terms of cultural and intellectual development. Peterson's perspectives on hierarchies add significant insights into these systems in modern societies, helping us to maximize their benefits while minimising their downsides, providing we are willing to let go of our tribal ideologies and practice much higher levels of objectivity.
I attempted to post a statement on Reddit, but was denied. Here is what I have to ask: Will this get to you? I respect your train of thought. So much information contained in your mind. What do you say of orphans? I don't think I am the first to ask this question. There is no video on TH-cam from you that speaks of this. Is there any understanding written in the ages to speak to the orphan? Only Disney uses this state of being. It has crafted me only to be a hero and struggle with all my might...not to be successful..but to survive. And I find myself lost and lost again. Is there knowledge you've come across to help an orphan? I've been made an orphan twice. I need some answers. My mother did not give up until her heart did and I won't either in her honor.
@22:30 "How about no hierarchies?" (left aspiration) I think this gets confused in part with the tension between competition and cooperation. Either "strategy" can try to choose a hierarchical structure. On one extreme, King of the hill is a game where it is hierarchy by strength. On the other extreme, cooperative strategies will see it more an issue of specialization, and see something called "Servant leadership". I also recall a story that the Amish picked their spiritual leader by lot, seeing that all of us have access to God and leadership is a matter of surrendering attention to spiritual needs over physical ones. www.mapministry.org/articles/2012/10/31/how-do-the-amish-choose-their-ministers-and-bishops
Mr. Peterson, I hold a distinction between responsible and obligation along these lines. A person may be obligated and unable to be responsible. A person may be responsible and not be obligated. An obligation within your view of the City of G-d may not be something to which a person is able to respond. Do you find this distinction to be meritless?
It's amazing how common sense has because such a rare commodity that a man like Jordan Peterson has become so huge so quickly. Great job reminding the world logic and reason is not quite dead. Thank you!
Just started listening to Jordan but I like the way he thinks. Honestly has made me question my political view
He has said that what he says isn't political at all. It's just rational thought relates more to conservatism, so the left hates him. He's definitely a favorite to listen to.
Being left isn't wrong, just like being right isn't wrong. It's when one side goes too far that it's not right. I'll just call myself what I will sir.
Isaiah Johnston I agree
Jakob Littell you’re gonna be fine, if that didn’t trigger you (even though it was annoying), welcome to the liberal non-radical portion of his viewer base. We do fine here
Jakob Littell The problem with being a leftist right now is your party is hijacked. I voted Obama twice cause I was lied to and believed it. The left is the party of Islam apologists anti free speech anti guns and he rights to an abortion. All 4 of those things are atrocious. And I don’t think abortion should be illegal I just do not think it should be tax payer funded when it’s considered immoral by so many. That would be like taxpayer funded censorship.
I strongly recommend you see he movie Death of a Nation. It will open your eyes. I consider myself a classical liberal but don’t ever say that to my friends cause I don’t wanna be associated with modern liberals because most people don’t really know what classical liberal means.
Dr. JP has been pumping out a lot of content lately. Keep it up! It truly makes my day seeing his videos in my feed.
I appreciate the discussions you've had with Sam Harris. I started following his work 10+ yrs ago, around the time I was following Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennet and Richard Dawkins' work. I think it's important for all of us to get used to the idea that we can agree on many, many points with another person, while also having a few disagreements and it's admirable that you didn't throw Harris under the bus when asked about your differences of opinion.
I'm getting a lot from the many viewpoints expressed by you and others in the 'Dark Web' and agree that we've been awfully shortchanged by the MSM because of their particular conflicts of interest and time constraints. I will, however, always appreciate the press in general as a crucial part of any healthy Democracy.
Thanks for this discussion, Jordan; I hope you're feeling as well as you look and wish you much peace and health going forward.
Agreed. Dwelling in an echo-chamber doesn't allow for any real growth.
Tee Dee
Excellent. Now to hear out those against democracy...
That would be the goal and one I'm frankly not ready for yet. I'm a strong believer in Democracies and seeing it presently under attack by fascists who seem to care little for the 'common man', doesn't compel me to hear out anyone against it. Just being honest about myself, here. It's worthy of debate, but not at this time for me, whether it's from communists or anyone else.
Great comment. Cheers!
Thank you, David. I hope you have a good day!
I see notification, I stop my life and watch.
Absolutely
ain't that the truth. it's a good message, pass it on
jack amiegbe you and me both
Yes sir
jack amiegbe ...I’m with you; learn something new or driven more deeply every time
Jordan Peterson arguing with himself:
"Clean your damn room bucko!"
"Define room."
Penelope Williams
Haha! This is a good one.
And for that matter, define clean! It's not at all obvious what that means.
Haha, "well, that all depends on what model you use to measure cleanliness ... "
clean is subjective, generally speaking
Loving these comments hahaha!
Please pick a bigger venue for your Stockholm show. There are tons of people who didn’t get a chance to buy tickets, sold out in seconds
He's going to start needing football stadiums rented out at this rate.
The Amsterdam tickets were going for twice the price within a day. Probably quicker but that was when I checked.
You have big problems in Sweden being the most PC feminized country on earth and obviously in this solar system and probably in the Milkyway Galaxy.
PowerTuber 3.0 This! And we have election in less than a month. Save us, please!
Muslim immigration.
Watched this yesterday on Rebel Wisdom, watching it again here today. So good!
The world need’s a voice of reason, Mr. Peterson is that voice. Contemplative, logical, and passionate. Thank you for sharing your mind.
I thought this was the Sam Harris debate ://
Yeah the title should have added "On Sam Harris...".
Unfortunate clickbait
Me too
TacTundra
If you head over to B. Weinstein’s channel, he explains that the videos will come out in due time. Patience bucko ....
Responsibility being the missing piece makes so much sense because that's the one thing kids haven't been raised with since the '70s. My parents loved me and encouraged me in my endeavors, but they never did much to instill a sense of responsibility in me. It took me decades of huge mistakes and a stint in the Navy to activate those circuits. So I think it makes sense that this generational malfunction is actually a developmental disorder.
6 months before finding Jordan Peterson, I began working on an educational intervention targeting kids (I am a martial arts teacher) that focuses on practical wisdom and developing a high-resolution lens through which to view and interact with the world - something quite obviously missing from the general education environment. This was precisely, as you mentioned because I started seeing disordered development manifest with increasing rapidity and scope. His lectures and talks have helped round out the program as have many of the books he recommends and tons of additional research into various scientific disciplines which, without discovering JP, I normally wouldn't have thought to investigate as thoroughly. It's nice to discover other people noticing that this domain needs some "awake and alert updating."
change "missing" ---> "lacking"
Raised in the 80's and 90's... I was taught plenty of responsibility and work ethic... But I was never taught Real, Useful, and Applicable lessons, or, the "How To's" of our social order. Mostly because my parents hadn't actually figured any of that out either. Instead of being taught "real methods" of managing personal finances, I was Occasionally "told" that I "should" save money... all the while, being "shown" that living in the moment and going to the beach were more important. And being told Regularly that "It's only money, you can't take it with you", and then at the moment of every financial hardship I would hear, "God has a plan", and "Everything happens for a reason"... Simply Useless Platitudes... Not only financial, but in terms of relationships, self-honesty, etc.. etc..
Fyi... No, there was no god that ever came through with any plan... My mother is still broke-ass-poor (nearly all of my family are poor and un-healthy for that matter), and I went through more than a decade of mistakes before finally figuring out what "I" was doing wrong because I was never taught real applicable methods for anything. I had been raised with "boundaries", "responsibility", "work ethic", "empathy", "compassion", "love", "respect", "humility".... and every bit of that seemed to always be coupled with "God", "Shame", "Fear", and "Wishful Thinking (prayer)"...
Sounds good... right??? Turns out that all of that is useless with-out ALSO being taught "HOW" to navigate the various elements of our daily lives. To clarify, I agree with the first 8 items in my list... but the last four can ALL be replaced by Education. In any case, my point is that it's not "entirely" an issue of responsibility.
See my post above - what you've described captures the essence of what I've been working on and will be launching with my students this fall. Funny how well the descriptions almost match - the program/course/system is called "Aims, Games, and Fair Play" with a description like "Integrating the Fundamentals of Practical Life Wisdom and Behavior." For kids, it's the lessons. For adults, it's the "things to be aware of concerning childhood development and how to support, encourage, and teach this stuff to your kids."
It seems to be that thing (or combination of things) that every parent wants for their kids and that is seldom if ever taught in school. Something which nobody seems to have really nailed down in a way that's digestible (communicable) to adolescents so that it is interesting/engaging (for it to actually stick).
Debate a marxist like Zizek, or an identarian like Jared Taylor
eeww
Would love to see him debate/have a conversation with Jared Taylor.
no
Realist Well, the obvious disagreement would be based on Peterson being a strong individualist, and Jared being a strong identitarian. With that, Peterson's argument would most likely revolve around Jared Taylor's idea of voluntary segregation. To this Peterson would say something along the lines of Segregation leads to separation of peoples, along with ideals, values, culture etc. Geographical differences, as well as differences that arise as a consequence of the aforementioned would lead to tribalism among the races. This tribalism can erupt into violence if the circumstances are favourable. Segmentation of a given area has it's own problems, as we saw with the balkans.
Realist Person isn't for borders though. Just one of the myriad of errors you have in your write up.
Can't wait for Peter Jordanson's spinoff interview
He'll probably attack with his foot out.
Dr. Peterson, please consider discussing the situation in South Africa and more specifically of the Afrikaaner Boer peoples. They are starting to prepare for the seizure of Kulak land. My main question is; Do we have a moral obligation to resist this Marxist policy that would likely bring about the destruction of our economy and will cause famine and the possible creation of a totalitarian dictatorship. It seems that reason and diplomacy has and will continue to fail. Do we resist which would inevitably lead to bloodshed and civil war or do we call it a day and get out of the country? I am currently torn by this dilemma and currently in a state of inaction either way. I am not alone in this feeling.
While I have no easy answers: if your neighbor insists on shooting himself in the gut, will it ultimately solve things to take away his freedom to do so?
I'm not sure also that the only alternative is to all leave. Independence on a limited part of the land should be considered as well. I don't like ideas of effective racial nationalism, but it may be a lesser evil if tensions do get that high.
Finally, it is worth considering that white people still own most land in SA, and that ain't their personal merit, obviously. Generational land-ownership is something we should examine in seriousness, without just being idiotic marxists who smash the system and then fall into the lava themselves.
This was always going to happen sooner or later when apartheid ended. Surprising it took this long. I feel sorry for the Afrikaaners and from what I have seen they will likely die on their land rather than leave it. And when they are finally dispossessed then SA will starve and many more will die. As an Australian I can tell you that most on the centre and right are very sympathetic to the plight. But everybody on the left is quite happy to see Afrikaaners stripped of their land and left to die. The Afrikaaners are traditionally seen as oppressors by the left so they get what they deserve. Its like the far left literally hate white skin.
A big problem is that fact that there are a lot of sophists who push a lot of misinformation about the history of South Africa and the Afrikaner people. We are at a point where there is open and blatant racism towards Afrikaner's and whites in general. The expropriation machine is driven not by the desire to help the people of South Africa but a desire to break down and destroy Afrikaner spirit and their desires for self determination. For the most part Afrikaners just want to be left alone and to be happy but they are being painted as a people who are driven by racism and supremacy which is a lie. The only problem is that the Afrikaner spirit has not been broken in 360 years, not by the British, not But the Zulus, not by the desert or the farm attacks. If anything the flame grows larger and stronger. Which is a good thing but its also a bad thing because they will never submit. If their land is stolen they will undoubtedly go with the scorched earth policy and go down swinging.
Hello,
I seem to have trouble finding up to date sources about this South African catastrophe. Google is not helping me.
Does anybody have any useful primary sources?
@The Sunshine Group - Try Afriforum. Im not sure why your google isnt showing current SA news. Thats very suspicious. Just google "South Africa News" you should be presented with a myriad of current articles.
Great insights and an excellent analysis of these troubled times of ours - thank you!
Great stuff from Peterson; and what a man for these times.
I was living rough in my teens, had a very hard time as a young man, finally learned the basic elements of these lessons (which are very ancient, and to me function almost like natural law - transcending time and place) in my late 30s.
Peterson helps us all by speaking to something that lays in all of us, directing us to a human heritage that - if we attend to it - gives way-markers to our best selves. And he does it with greater wisdom and sophistication than anyone I've ever seen or read. It must have been a tough but so rewarding journey through life for him, too.
For last couple of years I live in Russia. I’m so agree with dr.Peterson in everything he says, especially about the consequences of radical left revolution in Russia in 20th. Dear lefties, in here it echoes so terrifyingly painful even now hundred years from that events. If you really want to see what it’s like - your beloved equalization, come here, but not to Moscow or Saint Petersburg, any other city. This places are like wounded animals which are really really hard to heal. Thank you dr.Peterson for sharing your views and wisdom.
The current state of the Russian suburbs and small cities is caused ONLY by the USSR collapse. The "bloody" Soviets was the only thing that brought medicine, education, and manufactories to the small cities and villages. Now, of course, 27 years later, you can see the results. Don't blame the socialism for the sins of capitalism.
What do we do with the millions of deaths and suffering? The starvation? Who gets those?
I'm so grateful that God has allowed you to be on a mountain top and to spread the knowledge you have with the humble spirit you show. I look forward to the continuation of your biblical series lectures, if you decide to continue it of course. I know you're awfully busy but perhaps once your next book is out you would consider it. Thank you JP!
What a marvelous ending to an amazing interview. Inspiring!
Wow! Those are some really sharp HD cameras. I can see the two engaged in conversation with utter clarity.
Upvote if you cleaned your damn room
roughly speaking, yes, to some degree.
My mom did it for me.
It already was cleaned ;)
You’re way behind. I’m near the river Styx in the underworld. I’ve nearly rescued my father. Then together we will slay dragons and steal their gold.
evan wiesenberg i havent, not by any stretch of the imagination, and thats no joke man!
Thank you for taking the time to help make a turn-around in our confused society. Screaming and yelling, destroying and hating only puts a barrier up for the hurting person. It's so difficult to listen, only to act out. I believe that some of your success in getting such an audience is your ability to stay in the present to make your conversation persuasive.
I want to live in the city of God.
Did you clean your room first?
You already are. You just don’t know it yet.
Can't fault you for that. Here's what I think of Peterson, though: th-cam.com/video/qDSwjYTrsB8/w-d-xo.html
you mean Rio de Janeiro?
Dude, do you swim a lot. clean your osean.
Incredibly eye opening discussion; I've been following JBP for some time now but this discussion pulled it together for me in a way he hasn't in the past. Thank you mister Peterson.
JP helped improve my life.
Mine too :) Kudos to you bubba!
And your room :)
Jordan,
You talk about "taking risk" by engaging in public discussion. I was at your Winnipeg show recently. I had the most up-voted question from the audience which implored you to address the criticism coming from the Majority Report with Sam Seder. This and many other politically controversial questions were deleted by Dave or some other person (censoring?).
I believe some of the criticism from the left is well-founded. Nonetheless, I stand by you as a supporter and firmly believe in many of your ideas. Overall, your youtube work and published work has had a tremendously beneficial effect on many people. I ask you to once again consider in taking risk by inviting them to an open debate or addressing their constant and obsessive criticism of you on the youtube platform.
Regards,
A Fan
Jordan B Peterson the beholder of *wisdom!*
Only in some aspects, his religious wisdom diminishes his total worth.
^ Ah yes, your average 21st century internet atheist. Tell me, are you in your Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris phase right now? Don't worry you will grow up like I did.
... and so much common sense 😊
SKRRT SKRRT SKRRT lol... Hoping I can get your opinion on something, as you seem to have traversed the spectrum. How should one characterize oneself, who values both the atheistic views of Dawkins/Harris and the religious views of the Peterson/Shapiro pretty much equally?
Amanda J Tycer : The beholder of wisdom!, close to the top of the hill;)
The city of god is the place where untruth has no place
The city of god is the place where we all take total responsibility by speaking the truth and going our uniquest way. So, we contribute the best and the most meaningful to the city of god which is nothing less than the united souls being what they are and should be, all under the guidance of the most inner truth which is identical with the truth of god, the logos, the Christ.
The untruth is the darkish, the divider, the separator, the EGO, which is twisting truth to a lie, whereas taking your personal burden in dignity means, to carry it against all temptations of the often easier ways of egoistic lies. The city of god is the place where untruth has no place and the ego is nonexistent. We all have a long way to go.
For christians this means, don't talk about Christ with your lips only, speak it with the depth of your heart and more important, follow his example of truth and responsibility at all costs, like he did. He is waiting on that hill, to hug all sisters and brothers stumbling up to the top of truth, to the Logos, to God.
The dichotomy of being both the oppressor and the oppressed contained within each individual is the take away for me here. Extremely fascinating to contemplate. Thank you.
may i ask if mr peterson ever talked bout "coudenhove-kalergi, practical idealism" ?
pls link if he did, if not pls mail him. thats quite important to understand whats going on in europe.
for example. merkel got the kalergi award for her works.
i hope itll help, keep educating guys.
wow, never realised this was a concequence of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. Thanks for another absolutely awesome insight!
Circa 14:30 David Fuller says that Sam Harris isn't arguing his atheist morality in good faith, that Harris is merely clinging on to his ideas because he's invested so much time and effort into arguing them in all these books. This is precisely what I don't like about the more _public_ fans of JBP: the ridiculous slanders that they come up with about JBP's ideological opponents and interlocutors. Can any of you who are making noise in Peterson's impressive wake, particularly the theists, be fair about the depth and integrity of some of these disagreements, instead of engaging in this SJW-like "psychologizing" of the people making the counterargument? :\
In every following there is going to be a vocal minority of possessed fans who respond to criticism defensively and reflexively. There's no way to completely stop it from happening but I do think those people are a minority and not representative of most Peterson, Harris, or IDW followers. I'd like to point out that neither "fan" nor "follower" are appropriate but I don't know what word would be a better fit. Fan implies a whimsical interest and our interest in this intellectual movement is anything but whimsical. Followers implies a blind loyalty that for the most part isn't present either. People generally seem to consider things very critically even from these public figures they greatly respect.
@bbattlemode I believe that "fan" comes from "fanatic", which is anything but a whimsical attraction. A fanatic adheres to the doctrine and considers unbelievers to have failed a moral test, which is about right for Fuller's critique of Sam Harris. In that moment, Fuller is being a fanatic of either theism or JPB, not a critic of Harris.
I'd say that I'm a _fan_ of JBP's writing and speaking--I like it and seek out more--but not a _fanatic_ in any way that I can tell, so the words have clearly diverged in meaning for me.
"This is precisely what I don't like about the more public fans of JBP: the ridiculous slanders that they come up with about JBP's ideological opponents and interlocutors."
There is a lot of that from some of the anti-Peterson crowd as well.
I have no tolerance for anyone using such tactics on any side of an argument. It is painful having to wade through the noise generated by the crackpots to find legitimate discussion.
I see much value, many strengths and some weaknesses in the ideas raised by both Peterson and Harris. I consider them both to be valuable resources for prompting me to think about issues for myself.
I don't expect any public intellectual to be right about everything, to not have the odd idea that is a bit whiffy, or to have views that agree 100% with what I think I know or that perfectly match my education and life experience. They are useful sources of information to evaluate, compare with and challenge what I think I know, they point me to ideas I might want to explore next.
As for the "fans", Harris and Peterson have huge followings. A small percentage of the general population exhibits personality disorders, suffers from mental illness and/or subscribes to crackpot ideas. Those individuals could number 100's or several thousand for any public figure that you could name. If they turn out to be more vocal than the majority on social media, they will seem to be representative, but this is an illusion. A public figure can have 10's of thousands of followers on Twitter, but for the most part only a dozen or so ever reply to their posts at any given time.
Has a point though. Would you after 10 years of work suddenly reject it because of what some new guy on the scene has to say? I mean Harris is esteemed as a rationalist but we all have our emotional defects, especially when it comes to work which we have poured sweat and tears into...I'm not saying Harris is failing to argue in good faith but Fuller makes a good point.
I agree - we can't ever truly know someone's intent unless they tell us specifically what it is. Even in that case it is quite possibly false - people lie to themselves all the time. It requires a lot of introspection or therapy to even know oneself well enough to make those conclusions. It is absolutely pretentious to prescribe concrete motives and intent to specific individuals. Theorizing can be another matter, particularity when we are discussing cause and effect (i.e. "could group or person X outward behavior be a result of policy Y enacted by such-and-such administration") but highly depends on the context. I've seen this behavior in every group/team/faction/party of people with a strongly held shared belief. It tends to be a human trait, rather than a political one. I think one of the most productive things we can do is to call this and other hypocrisies out within our own circles - it's something we might actually have the ability to impact on an individual level. We are often afraid of alienating ourselves from our peer groups, but we learn a lot when this happens. This can only be done, I think, once someone has spent some time contemplating their own motives and goals, as such criticism should be offered with the proper intent and thoughtfulness to have beneficial results.
What a fantastic discussion!
I've taken away a great deal from this as well as lots to think about.
This is precisely why freedom of speech is so important for the progression of thoughts and ideas
It seems to me when I was younger the time between commercials on television was longer. At some point years ago I remember people talking about viewers not having an attention span and More and more shows would keep jumping around to so-called keep the audience interested. Personally I kind of think that they just wanted to have more commercials, and they wanted people to be educated less. They wanted to train people’s attention spans to be shorter. I don’t know I could be wrong. It seems to me over 30 years ago we had more cerebral television. I’m talking about American television.
Sean Vogel A dealer hooks people with the good shit, cuts it down over time.
Keyboard Warrior This sounds like a dialogue Mr Robot would have in it
I think it was in the 70's that Sartre wrote a screenplay for the biographical film about Freud, the american Film company sent it back asking for it to be made shorter because it would amount to a 5 hour film. Sartre sent it back longer even asking wether the people in Texas have gone so dumb that they can't concentrate for longer than an hour. In the end the film makers shortened it themselves and Sartre refused his named be used for it.
My room was always a pigsty. But after watching a few Peterson videos I was literally compelled to clean my room better than I have in my life. It’s immaculate.
The attraction to Dr. Peterson's message is that it comes on a secular "plate", filled with non-ambiguous and non-judgmental sageness that is clearly laid out for maximum cognitive reception. It nicely fits into my belief system, Christian, which goes something like this: You are what you eat. Looking forward to his lecture, which I will be attending with my daughter, in September.
Jeanette Quesada Very well put
Someone who accepts the maximal amount of responsibility is much more able (and likely willing) to help others bare their burdens. It is a religious principal that is so often missed the connection is almost never made. Jordan's last answer shows this principal so succinctly that I believe it deserves a full video just unpacking that idea.
Amazing interview Jordan.
An absolutely fascinating interview. Thanks for uploading JP
IM THE TOP LOBSTER THIS TIME! HAA!
inFusion i identify as the top lobster so please step aside
Zoidberg is top lobster.
inFusion
Very good.. now clean your room...
Top Lobster, why not Zoidberg?
Serotonin Overload! Serotonin Overload! Serotonin Overload!
I really like what you said about Maslows Heirarchy of Needs here, but I think a clarification should be made. Yes, self actualization is not restricted to people who do not have all the needs below the peak met, and as you said this is obvious from the well known idea that privation builds character, but I think we should distinguish between what people are primarily motivated by, and what conditions are conducive to self actualization. Maslows heirarchy is a faulty tool for heuristically guessing what category of motivations a person might be pre-occupied with most if you know at what level other needs are being met, but it does not limit the capability of self actualization to any group. This is to say that the motivation to self actualize and the actual result of self actualization should be distinguished. It might even be the case that the two are at odds with one another, perhaps similar to the way in which aiming directly for happiness is not a good way to attain it. Maybe self actualization is more of a by-product of other processes.
Other processes like: being moral, telling the truth, taking on responsibility, revivifying your father, etc.
I have nothing to add other than I miss his beard.
Craig Adam hot
No way! Facial hair is extremely unattractive and shows major insecurities. Unkempt also comes to mind.
I don’t know, I might be too much of a metrosexual cause clean shaven is always preferable to facial hair.
The popularity of the 1981 Movie 'My Dinner with Andre' foreshadowed the phenomenon of the long form internet discussion.It was always there, that yearning for intelligent discussion.Sunday morning talk shows like The McLaughlin Group were a stopgap.
Peterson is so Frankl more than anything else and its awesome. Theres meaning within the suffering .
I appreciate you Dr. Peterson, but I have to point out that you didn’t give Maslow’s hierarchy of needs a fair shake. It’s specifically theory of human motivation not a theory of moral development which shouldn't be conflated. “Self Actualization” at the top of pyramid is not the same self empowerment or personal actualization as measured by social status. “The rich are morally superior” is a total misread of Maslow’s meaning of self actualization which has nothing to do with money, wealth or affluence. Its about being all you can be and realizing that potential according to one’s values sphere which may or may not include being rich.
The interviewer is also quite excellent
For a change, imo
My attention span is about three to four hours straight, with good speakers such as yourself. With bad ones several minutes.
PS: I started listening to long talks on TH-cam in 2008 I think. Several hours of Terence McKenna workshops and Coast To Coast AM programs. I had a blast.
Why use the illuminati pyramid with the spot for the eye? Do you even know what that's about?
AllOtherNamesUsed it looks like black sun occult symbolism :/
AllOtherNamesUsed well you obviously dont!
Enlighten us chosen one?
Haha.
To trigger you.
The eye represents the Egyptian God Horus.
Brilliant man. 10 more people know about you than they did, I gave them your book. Dammit! Now I have to buy another one. The last one I gave away, my own, get the best response. Keep it up JP.
When does the Sam Harris debate is realesd?
Every time I watch Peterson, he impresses me. It’s not just his intellect, though, which is incredibly impressive. It’s his integrity and honesty and humility. I don’t understand the political climate in which this man is controversial. It’s amazing.
Jordan sat there like a boss.
the green ribbon club That's because he is a boss! :)
There was something very chilling about the last answer he gave. I think it was the realisation of how far removed the attributes of my character are from those of the inhabitants of the City of God. Ideals and goals have always pulled and enticed me towards improvement, but the ideal Dr. Peterson presents here pushes as much as it pulls. Pulling by the obvious nobility of the ideal, aided by the push of what I now fully comprehend as the "unbearable present" (me, as I perceive myself now) he has mentioned before. It's such an unnerving, compelling mix of fear and admiration.
How I love this man, Jordan B Peterson is a modern embodiment of Jesus Christ.
He can't even give a straight answer on whether he believes in God. He doesn't like that question. Oookay
That's laughable, lol. Sam is closer to a modern day Jesus if you have ever listened to his spiritual talk.
...or is he the Anti-Christ? Maybe the Pied Piper?
@@AllOtherNamesUsed he replied very well on that in the explanation about nisches superman
@@AllOtherNamesUsed he believes in God in his own way that nothing can become from nothing, but offcours I do believe that he doesn't believe in church nor the god image that church paints in it superficial way
JBP, wonderful interview, great insight, as always. Also, so glad to see you're figuring out how to keep your feet on the ground through the tidal wave. I've been afraid you'd get sucked into the vortex of ego and turn this wave into cult of personality. That's a temptation few can resist. Good to see you, looking so well.
ITS HAPPENING BOIS
Love the perspective about Maslow's hierarchy. So interesting!
Damn! I was hoping for a strip club, stocked full of ice cold beer, at the top of the hill but I suppose the city of god will have to do.
did they actually talk about one of Augustine's more prominent works?
Yes. They discussed City of Strippers at great length.
Its a real pleasure to listen Jordan ideas. Thanks for that interview, it is really meaningful.
how does this have 158 likes, but only 23 viewers...
Walleye J TH-cam hates him.
They record likes immediately but views only after a bit of watch time.
TH-cam is incompetent!
The devotees click to virtue signal. But they don't bother to listen. They just praise their messiah.
Common Core math
And let me say this: Jordan Peterson is a torch of light for this world. I'm personally so grateful for everything he does. I admire the courage to go out and speak the truth, because truth shall never be feared. My excuse since 20 years was "I have a family, I can't risk to speak out". Seeing him gracefully deconstruct so many bad things in our society, makes me feel a bit ashamed of myself, and yet very glad, that there is one, who stood up, and, hopefully, at least more likeminded people to wake up and speak out as well. I predict, so many people's lifes will be filled with purpose again, simply by this cause.
Europeans, quit this identity game! No need to advocate for your own people or own culture, just steadfastly stick to individualism. But, you will be taken advantage of by immigrants and you WILL lose your society and everything you've fought for because those immigrants WILL and DO practise hardcore identity politics and they WILL and DO specifically advocate for THEIR group over YOUR group!! Enjoy your virtuous non-identity politics but lose your civilization.
Jordan is DEAD WRONG on this issue. He talks about loving European civilization but he's essentially advocating against group identity even though whites are the ONLY group who aren't into group identity but the only group that NEEDS identity politics.
Jordan, if European people follow your advice, you grandkids will never get to visit the Europe civilization you currently love but only a 3rd world shithole in its place.
ps I still like a lot of what he says though in assessing the crazy left, indoctrinated media & academia, and the incompatibility of Islam
You step with empty of time tested backing to a fucking genius. Gutsy. Change your language dont do, absolutes. Dead wrong. Here is a destriction of that argument.
Europeans are identified by more than borders. I think you are maybe assuming the british are europeans or finalizing with the brits as the final example for your results. They are not europeans, because they have so much more in contrast and so few in common with what europeans when comparing each other and the reverse is true too, like if any european compares it self to th british the all have less in common with england and this less in common is across the board. Not put england in the equation always, if you do the tearm european is not able to be solid because they individually are so significant 50% of what the term european will be changed to be correct and also include england. Traditional across the board is basically the same in meaning + 1or 2 uniquely odd addition to each usually quickly and turned into inhibition breakers they are used to joke about one another and also uniquely the joke can be insulting but at the same time, the insulted can let it slide, becaue they can take pride in the fact that, the one insulting at least he knew, what MY IDENTITI is and how we do it here. An example polka dots, quilts, wooden shoes…ect. This is also in foods, and go along these lines and u will see its identity without any comprise. England has absolutely no way to even get its foot in the door to resemble as part of europe, when they have all so much in common its even easy for the to have more in common with each other in their amount and the ways to go about life. So, europeans love and love to hate one another it best decribed as a bond that identiti is so imoortant and so inter woven that it may seem to many that its not important or even that its present, like hidden in plain sight. Ya ya spelling its the machines they suck and so do i, also u i don destroy yout argument but i do because i dent it and when absolute gets dent its destroyed. So i did destroy it.
Everyone murdered in the holocaust was an individual - so it's not wrong for individuals to band together against violent malevolence: and in Europe the public, political violence comes from Islamism. Britain, Holland, France, Italy and Denmark have each seen public writers murdered or attempts at murder made by Islamists (let alone other attacks such as bombings of trains and children's concerts, massacres in cafes, trucks ploughing through crowds, etc.). No other ideology is doing that in Europe. No other ideology is even coming close to _trying_ to do that.
Found the white ethnostate advocate
Ethics aside: playing identity politics as whites in Europe is a lost game. Since Hitler, we have no such option, we paint a massive target on us.
Better to stick to individualism, that is something we should still be able to carry politically. And I have no doubt that - given that we offer what you look for - you'll join those efforts when it comes to the voting booth.
Just know that while we can stand for your rights... the second you do divide by race, we must take our distance, and the moment you engage in violence, we cannot protect you.
The liberal order must be maintained at all costs. The revolution is never over. Hail, the power formerly behind the one, is now behind the many.
If you can tell me who the revolution is supposed to be against, good for you, I suppose.
Responsibility---Do you have the ability? How will you respond?---You responded you have the ability, faith in yourself and your skills to bring about a better outcome than would have been without you, giving you meaning and purpose.
Lets go!
Bloody hell... that last minute is quite incredible. The whole lot is worth a watch, but that last minute.......
Bring the beard back!
NO! It dramatically ages anyone and it's gross to say the least.
Maslow cited material needs as the base necessity for human fulfilment, but then progressed to things like security and emotional support etc. It's not a strict material progression that he equated with self-actualisation. As far as I know
>Uploaded 2 minutes ago
>20 views
>23 comments
Comon TH-cam we know what you're up to.
It's not just youtube, it's 100s of govt and ngo groups working with youtube/google. I did a lengthy eye-opening blogpost with all the reports and screenshots exposing how we're being overrun by bots, shills and spooks called Cyber Thuggery (blog link atop my channel). They can artificially boost or suppress the numbers thus pick the winners and losers. Everything is rigged beyond imagination. Although that may or may not be the case here.
Wrong. I finished the video with 0 upvotes and 0 views. Refreshed the page and it was all there.
How can you know "it's all there"? I'm implying they are suppressing view count.
20 people can produce 23 comments in total... Friends
Jordan B Peterson's ability to communicate concept and meaning is both hypnotic and brilliant ! I think he is a real healer. I am so grateful to be alive in his time.
I'm not first?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Wish it wasn't so short, the last question needed a follow up for the "purpose of taking on life's burdens & traversing up the hill" is that it makes us stronger (more appealing people), straightens our steps & prepares us for life's obstacles. (Just my armchair philosophizing).
30:30 I would love to hear more on your opinion with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs...MORE things to make me think. Thank you Sir.
Thank you for the best interview of Jordan Peterson I have heard to date. Just enough of the oppositions ideas to understand both sides.
I can only speak on my own behalf but I don't think it's just long conversations I (the listener) am interested in, I just want to learn, develop and improve myself.
Always opening me up with child like intrest, making me want to learn. Thank You!
I am an ex-Christian. I'm reasonably intelligent (at least average I think), I read the Bible at 8 out of interest and I asked my parents take me to many Churches on Sundays. All my life my understanding of the Bible was that it was of a metaphorical nature. If I read a passage that sounded illogical, cruel or crude I read it over and over looking for a deeper meaning. My assumption was that truth and meaning was encapsulated in these stories, and I still think that.
I didn't know what fundamentalism was until early puberty, and when I discovered it I despised it; A thoroughly corrupted and arrogantly oversimplified distortion of what I considered a divine source of wisdom. I came to the conclusion that it was more sophisticated than the average pundit would care to ponder, and that a deeper tribal sense of belonging to a simple dogmatic view continuously prevails over a humble enlightened reading. I like Jesus as a character, I think society has benefited from elevating him as a figure worth emulating the altruistic and egalitarian characteristics of, but I have to contend that from my life experience Harris's position is far more tenable. I think Peterson has predominantly been exposed to intelligent people in his academic and clinical professions, and he overestimates the ability of the modern common tribal fundamentalist and underestimates Christianity's propensity to encourage it. Either that, or he sees the core tenets of liberalism as a derivative of Christian philosophy, and that if we substitute fact-based rationality for that we might dissolve the foundations of liberalism as well. A conceivable assumption, but I would like him to take more swings against fundamentalism. Otherwise I'm totally on Harris's side.
And you would be correct. But it is not untainted; through 2000 yrs, translation after translation, corrupt keepers, corrupt organizations, contributions and understandings through hundreds of different cultures, what's left probably isn't too far from a Tony Robbins book or a comic book. And it was never divine, meaning any Truths that are in there are from the mind of a man.
Jordán please try to subtitle your videos in Spanish or other languages. A lot of people over the world would like to understand your reflections. Thanks ...
NO DOOT ABOOT IT! NO DOOT ABOOT IT!
Good Ol Small town Albertan Boy accent coming through strong, Gotta love it 18:56
Much love to you from a guy born and raised in a small town in Alberta (Tofield)
Keep up the good work Jordan!
Sincerely
David Martin
I think it would add definition to think of groups of hierarchies. Monetary wealth is a hierarchy, but there are some or many related hierarchies that contribute to the end result of monetary wealth.
I agree with your thoughts on what the roles of the right and the left should be. You explain things so well.
"people are smarter than we think" this statement brings hope, amidst a lot of pessimism
Group identity is built on similarities and builds on that leverage to others or groups. Jordan I started following based on your ambition and your way to look for answers from others. It's interesting on how some get mad by not understanding you. Keep it up, I hope I get the opportunity to meet you one-day.
On the other hand, Dr. Peterson, one could argue that rich people (the ones that end up being rich starting from the bottom) are "morally" superior to those that remain poor BECAUSE the system that makes them rich, capitalism, is essentially a win-win situation (the ones that serve the needs of more people get to have more money). I used quotation marks around the word "morally" for some would say that "serving/meeting the needs of others" does not make you, automatically, a moral entity. But isn't that a proper definition?
Dr. Peterson, at the age of 56 am I to old to educated myself. The amount of books you suggest for reading would seem like a life time to read all that material. ? Have I missed my change at a real interpretation of the world by just learning a trade.
Don't be so humble Dr Peterson. When this all started I remember thinking it was great that someone was standing up for us, but the left would tear you down quickly and you'd apologise.
They didn't, you didn't, and your subsequent story has been one of the most meaningful events of my life. (And I watched The Wall come down and Mandela walk free)
Don't underestimate your bravery and don't underestimate what your stance means to all of us.
I'm slow-reading Twelve Rules. There has been so much fuckery happening around me. I was comforted by the knowledge that the book was being shipped to my bookstore - an antidote to chaos.
I think the long form discussion started a lot longer than TH-cam. I'd say it started with Howard Stern and long form sports radio shows like Mike and the Mad Dog where they'd be on for hours. And specifically when those shows started being broadcasted on TV, which was kind of unheard of. But I definitely remember watching Mike and the Mad Dog or Stern for hours. Granted their topics were much more low brow, but still Howard Stern was much more like Joe Rogan than he was like other DJs or even shock jocks. He really did try to have honest conversations, as opposed to the corporate shills like the Top 20 DJs
He is cuttig through to the important changes and the possibility of positive consequences of them every time I listen to him. The only way he can do that is to be on the right track! We need to see solutions not drown in despare! Thank you!
This is wonderful. I've been trying to tell people about Peterson and his ideas. I think I'll just show this video instead
Oh how l appreciate this man. What wisdom and clarity of thought.
I've been listening to Jordan for almost 2 years, ever since the Bill 16-C discussion at UoT.
I would love to hear something new from Dr. Peterson, is it safe to say that most of what he has said for the past year(?) in interviews of this format has been rehashed and repetition?
Is anyone else also longing for JBP to share some fresh thoughts and insights on important matters? Perhaps take a short break from public appearance in order to investigate scientific papers and reports that he can share with us.
I'm getting a bit tired from having to listen to the same "old" ideas over and over, any other long-time listeners chime in on this. :)
Professor Peterson, thank you for this interview! You gave a pretty profound answer there at the end, with The City of God, and I'm wondering, have you read St. Augustine's City of God?
Not exactly a reintegration of the sacred, but of something deeper and way more important.
Dear dr Peterson. I have a question. I know you're probably terribly busy, so if you don't find the time to answer, no harm done.
I've been watching your lectures since day one, and bought Maps of Meaning several years ago. I found it greatly fascinating (not easy though, as English is my third language). That book (and your lectures) is the reason why i'm not as strident an atheist as i once was.
You've talked a great deal about authoritarian threats. I tend to agree with you on most of that. But my question is: why do you focus so much on the left? Realistically, the right holds most of the power globally. Europe, the US, the UK, Russia. Most of the world's goverments are predominantly rightleaning (not saying full on extreme right, ofcourse).
Why focus on those 16, 17 year old far left students? They have no real power. You yourself have said that this journey to the far left has been going on for thirty years, yet still our governments are predominantly right leaning. It would appear that in those 30 years, nothing of real substance has been achieved by far left students. Students grow up. And usually they grow out of their delusional worldviews.
Have you read Madeleine Allbrights book on Fascism? It's not only about the dangers of the far right, also about the dangers of the left and ofcourse the failure to communicate. What it demonstrates though, is that we ought to be wary about the right as well as the left at all times, and both in equal amount.
As i've said, most of the real power remains with the right. And projections illustrate that this isn't goinng to change anytime soon. On the contrary, even the far right is rising very quickly. With many people switching from central right to right or far right because of the perceived issues of immigration in a time where we actually have it better than most of the time.
So, TLDR, why the focus on the left, while the left is actually weak and the right is almost as strong as it's ever been?
Mr. Peterson are you planing on doing second show in Helsinki, or perhaps a bigger venue? I think first venue was sold out in a day... (no ticket for me:'()
The downside of hierarchies are really a function of the limitations of humanity in terms of cultural and intellectual development. Peterson's perspectives on hierarchies add significant insights into these systems in modern societies, helping us to maximize their benefits while minimising their downsides, providing we are willing to let go of our tribal ideologies and practice much higher levels of objectivity.
34:43 minutes of time well spent. Thank you Dr Peterson!
I attempted to post a statement on Reddit, but was denied. Here is what I have to ask: Will this get to you? I respect your train of thought. So much information contained in your mind. What do you say of orphans? I don't think I am the first to ask this question. There is no video on TH-cam from you that speaks of this. Is there any understanding written in the ages to speak to the orphan? Only Disney uses this state of being. It has crafted me only to be a hero and struggle with all my might...not to be successful..but to survive. And I find myself lost and lost again. Is there knowledge you've come across to help an orphan? I've been made an orphan twice. I need some answers. My mother did not give up until her heart did and I won't either in her honor.
@22:30 "How about no hierarchies?" (left aspiration)
I think this gets confused in part with the tension between competition and cooperation. Either "strategy" can try to choose a hierarchical structure. On one extreme, King of the hill is a game where it is hierarchy by strength. On the other extreme, cooperative strategies will see it more an issue of specialization, and see something called "Servant leadership".
I also recall a story that the Amish picked their spiritual leader by lot, seeing that all of us have access to God and leadership is a matter of surrendering attention to spiritual needs over physical ones.
www.mapministry.org/articles/2012/10/31/how-do-the-amish-choose-their-ministers-and-bishops
Mr. Peterson,
I hold a distinction between responsible and obligation along these lines. A person may be obligated and unable to be responsible. A person may be responsible and not be obligated. An obligation within your view of the City of G-d may not be something to which a person is able to respond. Do you find this distinction to be meritless?