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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Thank you for making the show possible. 🙂
I love this book
Yeah DeBord nails it - love the book but also daunting being aware and seeing masses following it and identifying with it - and then allowing our own illusions to be reconstructed and dismantle the deception or shed it off - Christ really addresses all this and the new creation spirit provides a door
Please make another podcast on this!
Lewis Matthew Wilson Susan Anderson Charles
More Debord, Baudrillard, Becker and Camus please.
Also, Mark Fisher.
Just finished listening to all 171 podcasts. They were terrific (nearly all 😉)! Pretty nice of you to post these for free; they surely took a lot of time and thought. Bravo!
“I had to eat my pet chicken who was livin’ in my suitcase with me” 😂 this had me laughing too hard
The alienation is very apparent in a company environment. Where your employer tries to limit your knowledge of the business operations to the bare minimum that the require of you to perform your defined function.
This also counts for legal rights, health care benefits and even political input.
Alienation is worse in socialist countries.
Regarding commodity fetishism and our uncompromising participation in the spectacle, couldn't we argue that something similar took place in history? Today it's commodities, a while ago it was land ownership, prior to that maybe physical strength or fertility... It seems to me that we always fetishised _something_ and participated in some kind of social construct, whatever the form it took.
this is a really great point.
i mean my perspective is that this "commodity fetishism" isnt really a modern issue. it seems to have been an issue for all (most?) of human history.
@@retlox224 That makes sense to me, too.
Commodity fetishism and our participation in the spectacle are not merely historical phenomena but intrinsic to capitalist society's development. While other social constructs and forms of fetishization have indeed existed in history, the spectacle represents a qualitatively different form of alienation and domination unique to capitalism; It means a totalizing system that subsumes all other forms of social construct and fetishization. Also, the historical forms of fetishization you mention are themselves symptoms of the broader process of commodification and spectacle, i.e the fetishization of physical strength or fertility in pre-modern societies could be seen as a precursor to the commodification of the body and the emergence of the fitness industry in contemporary society. And we need to remember that Debord's concept of spectacle is not just a historical analysis but also a call to action.
@@suicidalbomber8048 Well said.
The bomb, the bubble, and the boom; the spectacle and the pill; the causes and the coup; the bursting of the bubble and the hall of mirrors. Such, it seems to me, are the crucial things that have shaped the lives of my generation (b.1948).
Participating in the spectacle is just the easier and lazy way to participate in society. Biologically we desire acceptance and avoid effort. It was not obvious in Debord's time, but social media may be the spectacle which "breaks the camel's back". While I am engaing in it myself right now, the latest generation does all of it's social interaction on social media. Absolutely everything presented on social media is an illusion if not an outright falsehood. We do not even attempt to hide that fact.
The only way to escape the spectacle is to live in isolation but also face the consequences that a life in material poverty is not always as much fun as we thinking beings imagine from the comfort of our living rooms.
How, on earth, would consuming the “body and blood of Christ”, even symbolically, not be cannibalism? I don’t understand these cannibalistic religions.
Well Christ ate with them - it’s Spirit - so it’s obvious to me the material aspects of life become the same religion hence Jesus provides a door but surely followers of man made institutions practicing some sort of guidance toward the Christ through words and witness accounts and images , that can become a representation solely and like masses who fall for the spectacle which becomes in and of itself a tangible physical world religion thus enough people miss the spirit connections and transitions to which faith is the substance of what can be seen that should evidence the conscience of what can’t be seen - hence the conundrum we are in in this human paradigm and its paradox which seems to be more heading less a theory of DeBros and more the reality being the spectacle is worshipped almost unbeknownst or that less and less care even when they are aware - so the Spiirit door Christ offers a way out but not neglecting aspects of the physical relationships and offering a new creation beyond the physical and yet not leaving the old world and life behind fully , calling for all to enter - allowing a paradigm mixed good and evil to grow together and that old things must pan out but yet we know the new thing or should know by observing what can be seen how the bings change and transform in time and what is fruitful and what is not or what that all represents is also a spirit - whereas without the truth of The Author man can’t help but make the physical and then identity of the physical itself becomes an idol or perhaps a self fulfilling prophecy within itself an act of worship -
I wonder if--like the endless stream of spectacles/illusions that consume and effectively limit so many of us these days, & increasingly so--i wonder if the most effective means of transcending the spectacle might involve our making use of tactics that likewise fail to endure, but on purpose. In other words, embracing spontaneity in a way that fights power. Foucault's "always letting each other in, whatever that looks like, even when it becomes dangerous" would probably be a good place to start. What do you think?
14:11
Anytime a theory requires me to have something projected onto me with lots of assumptions and no nuance allowed with lines like
“Just go with it”
I generally just throw it out the window
Last time this happened to me someone had me read “ who moved my cheese” which was the biggest dump of a book I’ve ever touched m
People are unironically handing out garbage ideas and saying “ if you don’t get it you (condescending jab to put the burden of understanding on you to mask their dogshit take)
This episode was enlightening. Keep on the excellent work
More of this topic please! Fascinating but it ended way too soon!
The decline of local beat reporting is another example of news becoming increasingly superficial
Great episode! Nothing epitomizes the society of the spectacle more in our modern age than 'social' media and the monkey wrench it has thrown into human relations. One wonders how much more grotesque it can get.. metaverse? 🤷🏻♂️
What a great video! Good job, Stephen. Please, feel free to make longer episodes! 🙏🏿
Thank you... the pre thinking before simulacra and simulation.
We live in this age, separated from being and each other.
Love this. Been waiting on the Guy Debord episode. Now all I'm waiting for is a Alfred Jarry episode.
Been waiting a long time also
Just listened to this on Spotify. What a great episode. Thanks, Steven!
9mins - 12 mins. This isn’t original to Guy, genzaburo yoshino wrote about this in 1937!!
Thank you and my thanks to you are sincere and have nothing to do with the spectacle in any way, shape, or form whatsoever!
Love this episope been rewinding for 2hours now. Please make more episodes on Guy Deboord
I would love to hear about this “not a way out but a way through” idea from Debor. Unless it was mentioned so the listener’s peaked interest would make him do his own research on the topic. Thank you for your time and skills to make this video.
T
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At 31: adding the feelings and emojis and emotions is a folly cause it’s the device and even if we do feel and that’s a truly organic human “being” those can deceive us toward the spectacle and in fact that is levered against us - but surely a virtue signaling is a representation but I would at it could be authentic how someone feels too -
Sometimes I use emojis because it's too easy for people to misunderstand a text message without them, but I only use the most basic ones because I don't understand the rest, so my use of those emojis would make the problem worse :) It's a shame to see so many people being so fake though.
So much of your program time here is spent, unfortunately probably necessarily, placating the modern distaste for religion. It's a little frustrating. We've had thousands of years of incredibly intelligent people exploring different theologies all searching for some kind of truth about the world. It's disappointing that an effect of the rise of rationalism was to discard that field of knowledge.
This coming from a very atheistic atheist, just to couch any particular pro-religion bias people may think I have.
Thanks for this! May the healing force of the invisible hand of the market be with you. Blessed be the whales of Wall Street for we are the krill!
Thank you for covering Debord! I didn't very much understand commodity fetishism but Debord was able to fill this gap, in a very itch in the brain sort of way.
Now how can I find a way out of this place...
This is an epic content! Kudos! It deserves to be heard by the people of the entire world as it is highly relevant to what's happening around! This would even make farther reach if there is some sort of video with it! I hope you make more of Guy Debord!
Great episode! Thank you! Would love to hear the next episode on him!
The first few paragraphs of Debord's book completely relates to this modern society.....like it could have written last week....amazing. Atomized population.
Nobody scratches my philosophical itch better than Philosophize this!
Fascinating dive into something we all take for granted for the most part. Great content.
Sweet love me some Debord
Am amazed, keep educating and philosophizing the great works and thoughts...
Llamas do indeed exist
As always, your uploads on philosophy are hugely welcomed. Thanks You 🙏🏻
There is something which Debord in 1967 could not possible anticipate. Since, the spectacle has become exponentially more dominant. In his days technological progression was mostly in order to satisfy a desire. These days technological progression is entirely the invention of concepts and things which nobody ever asked for, but eventually requires in order to participate in society. With other words things of questionable utility with little or no additional value are constantly emerging changing the way we do things without actually improving anything. Corporations constantly and deliberately inventing new concepts and new products which at best do the same thing in a different way than before and more often change our lives so profoundly that we cannot even imagine or predict the danger which may lay ahead. I am talking about social media. This is the preferred method of social interaction these days, while we did the same thing just by talking to each other at the camp-fire. People do things because they can and not because there is a need for it.
How do you apply this to things like instruments? because i think that some definitely *are* intrinsically better than others due to quality of materials and craftsman which produces better quality of sound....
Listen to all of his episodes. The lastest one is just beautiful. Wish he expands on Ortega y gasset's philosophy.
God is dead but people will always have religion be it secular or otherwise
It really begs the question why you believe what you believe
Can one really escape the spectacle and become an authentic human being? Do people really want freedom? I don’t think so
Thanks for another. Spent many hours driving up and down the country listen to your cast.
Fascinating episode. Thank you.
he took marx, and détourned it.
I've listened to this about 3 times over the past 2 weeks. I can't seem to find other people speaking on this work and would love more episodes on this.
Thank you for all the great work.
You can't find anyone speaking on this popular text by GUY DEBORD? You can't be looking around much at all...
Get people to watch the movie Nope with you and then slip in Guy Debord talking points afterward
@@HS-ie8tj haha you're right, i just meant people who would expand on what Stephen has covered so far. Like a lecture series of some sort. Most are just 20-minute book reviews that dont have much depth.
@@tysonasaurus6392 😂 good idea
@@sinqobilebandile6558 Is this a joke? Read the damn book.
What an excellent episode. Please do another on this topic
Amazing. You are well-read. Pleasure
Very bold to assume everyone is unaware and unbothered
Good effort. Thanks for that.
....a copy.....of a copy....of a copy
Its strange how all the old priest, initial christians wrote about wiggling their fingers and the chips become the actual blood and body of Christ. They all got killed for wiggling their fingers and writing these so called silly things..
It's so funny how many philosophy students religiously bash religion.
I love your channel.
i want chicken! now!
Thank you for this episode. More stuff on Debord will always be appreciated. I hope that one day you can cover the work of Jacques Ellul (The Technological Society/System/Bluff trilogy in particular) as his focus on technological development and its impact on our lives is very much connected (and in some ways precedes) the ideas of Debord and Baudrillard.
i do not know much about the history of the world, so i may be wrong. but it seems like this "fetishization of commodities" seem to just be materialism and wanting more material objects, just put in a marxist perspective. a problem i have is the framing that this is some sort of issue within a "commodity culture" (i.e. the culture of modernity). i just see this as some notion of human habit. liking things means getting things, liking things and getting things makes people happy, so they do it. i am somewhat anti-materialistic, i dont see how material objects would bring anyone virtue or "true" happiness. i dont see the problem of fetishizing commodities as a modern issue, it is a human issue. i mean bhuddism, stoicism, and cynicism all illustrate the point that having pretty and shiny things doesnt make you happy.
its weird that the argument being presented is shown as some sort of a modern issue, "this is an issue with commodity (modern) culture", what is implied is that this "culture" didnt always exist, except it seems like it has. this isnt a "culture", it is rather (seemingly) normal human modes of thought.
it is interesting to see anti-materialist arguments be made through a marxism lens, i just have an issue with this issue of materialism being presented as some sort of modern issue, when it has been a human issue.
great one
Citation you were looking for on your breakfast example is David Harvey
Thanks, contemplating the spectacle right now watching this video, but every so slightly more aware of what I'm doing than usual.
This book really blew me away. Excellent analytical overview.
Awsome
I know more today than I did yesterday, but I feel like I'm suffering a bit more. :O
C Wright Mills Elites and Imagination. :) ♡
Enjoyed this episode :)
TikTok and IG are good and will support any way we can. We love you!! Thank you for creating these podcasts!
Hello, Thanks a lot. You already made my entire week. I appreciate it.😊
I'm very glad I heard this name earlier today. Always. better late than never
Hey Mr west, if you put a poster on your merch store, I would support you
I love the newest modern stuff to help us understand 2023
☹
Super important episode! Thank you!
great stuff thanks! and i love the idea of debord going on tiktok
I'm OT 8
Good shit. I look forward to more.
Pleaaaaaase do create another one!
this, slavoj zizek, kaczynski, and max stirner; helped me break from leftist slave morality and hive mind
The left, right, center, whatever are all the same emptiness in the contemporary lexicon
You should break from the idea of considering a slave morality next
Oh ouhhhhh
Killer bro
Thanks Bigtime!!!
Time stamp please?
Great video!
More please
Moar ✊
SPECTACLE ~~~ CLOWN SHOW [modern W. Society]
Habitus
Commodity animism in capitalist religion; diffuse spectacle.
Loved that ending, I guess I am a part of a religion and I don’t really care about that all that much.
thank you for making this free
but i would def pay like 5 bucks an ep you have a ko-fi or somethin
Been following you for years now and still listen to every single episodes 2-3 times. Love your work. This specific episode, not my favorite, seems obvious at this point the thesis of the author and you've been eluding to it so many time. Yet, I enjoyed it.
Interesting
32:00 christianity isn't dualistic, that sounds more like plato
Soul and body if thay isnt christianity..bruuh
@@casudemous5105 body and soul are one that's the whole point of the resurrection of the flesh
@@mulmeyuntf the point of the ressurection is that your body isnt what matters, but the soul that is infinetely more important, then they tell (make something up) them about the soul and demonize the body. Give up your earthly needs (of the body) to strenghten the soul.
@@franzwonka2580that is just not mainstream christian thought, maybe in the early church there was debate or some heretical sects follow that theology, but the unity of body and soul is a fundamental dogma to most christian churches
A Christian who believes in God and Jesus and repents for sins doesn't have to agree with anything corruptable like mainstream consensus of fallible men, or churches and denominations set up and led by fallible men, or interpretations of scripture spoon fed to them by falible men. Details that are not necessary requirements for belief and repentance are not worth argueing about. All Christians are not defined by the biggest or most popular denomination of Christianity.
ja .. ich bin driving puke-caddy muhself ..
Thanks mate