Hi I'm Bill , Karens other half, she has the youtube script not me. I'm commenting today on behalf of Ron Wailes, you mentioned his name and it left a big hole in my heart. I met Ron when he came into my shop one day walked up and introduced him self and checked out my shop and noticed I had an ironworker and a lot of left over material in the bone yard and wanted to know if I wanted to part with some of it and he proceeded to tell me what he planned on doing with it, he said he wanted to start making forges and rite there he had my attention, I had everything he needed in my bone yard to make several forges and I told him that if you build me a forge you have free range in my bone yard and the ironworker to punch out the parts , I did a lot of the welding for him because he thought my welds were much prettier than his lol. From that day on Ron and I formed a small bond, he would pop in the shop unannounced most of the the time anyway he was a welcome site most of the time, taught me a lot. The reason I'm on this channel is I still have Ron's forge and the ribbon burner is wore out ( the refractory) and I wanted to find out how to rebuild it and noticed you had the same ribbon burner so I clicked on your video and low and behold you blurted Ron's name, caught me off guard a little bit. Nice to know Ron lives on! Just wanted to share. RIP Ron Wailes! THANK YOU!
Scott thanks for everything you share, I hate when the public is critical your just offering some general advice or opinions to help people maybe have the courage to try something that’s maybe not in there comfort level. Keep it up sir !!!!!!!!
You are such a great communicator! I am not in the construction or smithing industry but you keep me engaged and what you say makes sense and is educational. This is old school, how PBS and Discovery Channel used to be. Great stuff!
Dear sir, I want to thank you for your awesome channel. I was turned onto your channel by AvE. You two have taught me a lot of tricks to make my daily work so much easier and faster. Many thanks.
I wanted to say thank you for the knowledge you impart. I've worked in IT for the past 11 years and have always wanted to go back to a hobby that had me working with my hands. I've done some basic woodworking but I've always loved the idea of blacksmithing/welding from watching my friends father as a kid. After watching your videos and those of Rowan Taylor, I'd been discussing the topic with my wife, who has encouraged me to finally give it a shot by surprising me with a weekend long set of lessons close to where I live as a very early birthday present. If I find I really do enjoy the hobby I'd love to be able to pick your brain on building a forge someday. Thank you for your fantastic channel.
Ron Reil was the inspiration of all of my forge builds. He was a giant of a man. I never knew him or had any interaction, but I'm so grateful of such an artist to so willingly share all of his wisdom!
Just curious if you are familiar with the gentlemen from here in New Mexico that had an actual school that taught blacksmithing? They were known all over the world for their abilities and school apparently! Their shop was out in the mountains next to I-40! Tragically they were killed when a semi truck ran off the road and crashed through the shop! Was a terrible sad story but they were cutting edge blacksmiths! Edit: I see from further reading in your comments that you actually did know the guy I was referring to! I didnt know him personally but I live in the same area , and, the story really touched my heart! He sounded like a great person and a great contributor to a better world! Life truly isnt fair sometimes when the world loses someone like that! My heart goes out to his family and friends!
Thank you. You are salt on this earth. I learn so much about basic human interaction from watching your channel. I wish that I lived closer to you. I feel like you would make a terrific host.
The fact that i appreciate your videos makes me feel better about myself, and let's me know I'm not alone.Out of all the carpenters and craftsmen on YT, you've got the touch. You have the grandpa doing EVERYTHING right, with tricks etc. and think through EVERY single process in the chain. I can't stand working with most people, at least in Ca-Land of the Lazy. They end up working harder because they don't think things through and roll their eyes when a guy like you lays down the tech instead of learning. You're probably way better than me at inspiring better work out of your crews when doing big jobs too. When you're all 'younger' dudes banging out work, there's always some weird alpha pecking order BS with where everyone has to prove they're a 'bad-ass'. I love working with guys like this. You seem like good people.
It is "molecules" of oxygen -- the form that's useful for breathing and burning is two oxygen atoms stuck together, and they'd rather be stuck to one or two atoms of carbon or two of hydrogen (releasing a bit of energy in the transition, which is what powers our bodies and our forges). Hydrogen and nitrogen are the same way, in that the pure gas is paired atoms (and nitrogen REALLY WANTS to be N2, that's why nitrogen-based explosives work so well.)
That is a sign of someone who knows and is passionate about the topic. He does not have to search for the words. They just come to him. I can listen to him speak all day long and I have learned something from every video.
@SEMPER PROGRATIS Of course this is merely an asinine comment pertaining to satire; but you can, in fact, turn "Caps Lock" on and off sir. But yes this gentleman is quite the intelligent person.
I discovered your channel about a week ago and I just gotta say I admire your level of knowledge, craftsmanship and the spreading of safety awareness. Keep up the good work!
YES this means it's starting to get rainy and cold out there and it's time to get some blacksmithing going lol, I love all the different aspects of the channel but the blacksmithing is by far my favorite! Thanks for taking the time to share some of your vast knowledge as a craftsman with us.
Justin Underwood its not hard to make a char coal forge cheap. Start with that and save up for the forge you want like i am besides you appreciate things more when you build them
Hi, not going into the maths, but the flame chemistry tells a story. That big purple flame at 4:17, downstream of the blue cones, shows there's lots of carbon monoxide coming off that propane/air mixture. Needs more air moving more slowly (to keep the flames on the block). Gas flames ideally should be bright blue cones only. The grey cloud near your ceiling might just be condensed steam from combustion or mixed with incompletely burned soot, but it being there suggests your workshop needs more ventilation. Carbon monoxide poisoning is extremely nasty, even when it's not fatal it causes generalised damage across all brain functions. Great videos, please stay safe, we want lots more of them.
So what would be the solution Charles? More burners staged and introduced as needed to burn the fuel efficiently or just more that are always in play and just not getting the fuel air mixture due to lower pressure? Isn't there a chance of the combustion moving back up the supply line at the lower pressures ? Or at least into the burners if there are more connected than there is fuel air mix to burn?
One of the things I have learned studying and building forges is that you can make a forge out of almost anything. Anything from the classic brake drum to a hole in the ground can be a forge. Even a green tree stump, if it has enough mass, will do the trick... once.
The video quality is excellent. I don't know how much planning and preparation goes in to this....but the Lightning , camera placement, editing, sound.....all excellent.
The way your ribbon works is similar to a hot air balloon burner. The difference between the 2 of them is the hot air balloon burner draws the propane from the bottom of the tank in liquid form which creates 15 million BTUs on the smaller hot air balloons and up to 30 million BTUs for the bigger hot air balloons. As soon as the hot air balloon ride is over and you turn the propane off you can touch the burners and not get burned at all. Which is extremely important because if the pilot has to land in high winds over 10mph he can put the parachute out of the top of the balloon and lay it on it's side which can burn the rip stop material that all balloons are made out of. A normal flight in Las Vegas in the middle of the summer we can fly 10 passengers not including the pilot and propane on board and use less than 75 gallons of propane for 1 hour to 1½ hour flight, but we have 100 gallons of propane on board for each flight.
I have a dual burner and single burner forge that I run at 7 psi as well!!! Mine are atmospheric burners that seem to be quite efficient. My single burner will run around 4.5-5 hours on a 20 # tank @ 6-7 psi. Seems anything past 7 psi is a waste of fuel and doesn't get any hotter. Your MONSTER forge is a beauty!!!
I had a Craftsman table saw that only whispered. Everyone who used it was amazed. Even during rip cuts through hardwoods it only ever made a slight hissing sound that was very pleasant to hear. I miss that saw so so dearly. It was my inheritance but my stepdad borrowed it and left it where he used it never to be seen again. Had I known I would have drove the several hundred miles to get it back. Nothing like power teamed with silence in the shop!
Yeah, I bought a three burner devil forge and I ran it outside one day, just to see how well it would work. While it did heat the metal up to forging temps, it took a good bit of propane to do so. It uses ventury burners and while it was outside and the blowing of the wind had a great effect on how fast it heated up, I saw that I wasn't getting a good oxygen to fuel ratio(at least not good enough for me), so I'm going to build my own forge with ribbon burners. Mine's not going to be as large as yours, but it'll dwarf the devil forge. Thanks for your informative video, I've watched many of your videos and always get a lot of useful information out of them. 🖖😎⚒
Scott thank you for the information. This channel will help many people learn how to do things that other channel leave out never stop teaching you are good at it. Merry Christmas to you and your family. Best wishes John.
You're very right about the venturi style burners, they are loud. I have 3 on my forge and its hard to talk over them especially when all 3 are going at once although i only use my gas forge for production forging or hopefully soon to forge a small billet of damascus. Still very much love my coal forge and always will. the forge you built is something to talk about. Very nice design and I have heard a lot of good things about ribbon burners. Keep up the great content and thank you very much for sharing the knowledge you have. It is very much appreciated by me and I am sure many many others.
I plan on eventually positioning the forge above the burner so as to minimise the chimney effect. Also I want to make a ribbon burner that directly heats the surface of the floor of my forge with a perimeter of open space around the floor. Suspended in a way above the burner with very little extra space above the metal being forged. I'm ASSUMING that this will minimise not only my propane usage, not only my heat up time but also the oxygen within the forge. Thank you for your time Scott. Your channel is most helpful.
You have a way of taking a subject that would normally bore me to death (and make me promptly click off the video) and making it very interesting. Thank you.
For a while I’ve considered designing a burner after the “ linear arrow spike” rocket engine for the exact benefits that this much more simple design dose to evenly heat a blade. Proof that I over think simple problems :)
I'm not entirely sure what that would accomplish though, you're not trying to prevent the flame from expanding without thrust in a vacuum, you've got all the pressure you could ever ask for within an enclosed forge at one atmo. Notice that the ribbon burner doesn't do as well outside the forge as it does inside with some back pressure. The best it would do is to concentrate the flame in a line, which a ribbon already accomplishes in a diffuse manner (diffuse being preferable to concentrated) but then you've also got the problem of the aerospike body heating up without any means of active cooling (which is one reason why aerospikes aren't used in rockets). I mean, you're basically making a ribbon burner with extra steps and more complex problems. It wouldn't solve anything beyond a "look what I did" project.
I don't know if you are or have been a teacher but you sure would make a good one. Great job, keep up the great work with the blessings God has given you.
I can’t clearly see your piping arrangement but it looks like you have an open pipe from the air blower with no control valve and a regulator on the propane. If so, your 2 lb setting will tend to run lean and your 7 lb setting will tend to run rich. The video of the burner outside the forge shows a yellow flame extending past the short blue flames. That’s a rich flame. ( I realize that it will burn differently inside the forge.) I’d recommend that, at a minimum, you have controls on the air and the gas so you can adjust for a “ perfect” flame by eye. If you need to change firing rates often, and if fuel costs and time are important, the ideal setup would be control of the air with a pressure line after the air valve going to a gas regulator. That way you could control the firing rate and the gas would “follow” the air and keep a reasonably ideal flame.
Dear EC, I am getting into blacksmithing and gathering information on how to make a ribbon burner. How did you make the lower portion of your burner. The part that looks like a fire brick. Your blower motors are from where? Did you use a MIG tip for your nozzle. You run off of propane. I wonder if it would get hot enough using natural gas. Great information and love to watch to gain more knowledge. Thanks again.
Liked your video on the ribbon burner and thought this will be a great challenge for my next project along with a small refractory . I have finished a coal forge and a propane forge already. I am a new subscriber and will surf your site for more helpful tips. Thank you so much for your time and hope for a good year!
When I scrapped an old furnace,it had 3 burner bars that look a LOT like that burner.Gonna hafta do some tests.Good thing I never throw anything away,lol ;-)
I was looking for some advice, a venturi ( which i have), a forced air burner or a ribbon burner. you settled the argument in the most wonderful way. Thank you!
Im a pool guy. I wonder if you could use the burning tray from a propane pool heater. If you ever see one out for garbage 90% of the time it's the heat exchanger that breaks because of poor water chemistry, so the burner tray should still be intact.
Most burners are made to go under what they are heating so not good at being in the heat. They will ether get soft from the heat or oxidize rapidly so need to be replaced often.
Scott, you mentioned the burner likes some back pressure to get the flames to sit back onto the burner. Is it possible to slightly reduce the speed of the forced draught fan? This flame lifting effect you mention is normally too lean a gas/air mixture.
I'm building an asphalt heater, cept there's no info on the web about making these, so I hope to apply these principals to that application. Instead of a refractory brick with through holes, the refractory will be some ceramic fiber (kaowool) sandwiched between stainless steel wire mesh. It's my hope that I can mount this refractory sandwich in a metal box to create that mixing zone behind the refractory and ignite the air/gas as it leaches through. If that works, I will be all smiles!
whatever you use for the tubes? "crayons"? they need to be reconfigured so the tips are flame retention tips and are cast in place. That will keep the flame on the face of the castable and not blow away. You start with larger crayons that then 1/4 inch from the opening has a ring that reduces down to the smaller crayon size, the opens back up to the larger size. Look up flame retention tips for furnaces and you will get the idea. This will keep the flame sucked onto the face of the burner and then will not allow the flame to blow off.
Camera work in this video is fantastic. Shots are crisp and clean. The framing and color are great too. I love the contrast with that orange cabinet in you main talking shot.
Ribobn Burners are GREAT! if your frge is going to be stationary and you have electricity to run some air pumps that is! but for a guy just doing little projects and just starting a venturi is pretty dang good. i can remove the pipe and set that aside and stow my forge when I am done... because I have to.
Dude, you're awesome! Do you ever think about building a second forge for demonstration purposes? Like, you could teach classes or something. I'd attend.
I just built a forced air propane forge. Towards the end of it all, I was wondering why I didn't make the burner head rectangular shaped to produce a "ribbon burner". I wish I would have thought of it earlier in the build. Guess I will need to build another one. Nice video.
I had the same experience with my propane stove for making beer. The banjo style burner which is similar to the ribbon burner in some respects, was quieter, less fuel, less carbon on the bottom of my kettles. But it was about 2.5 times the cost of a cheapo jet style burner.
Calorific value (btu per cubic ft) Propane - 2500 Natural gas - 1000 That's according to a ANSI standard. However it changes all the time and will be different every time u have a tank filled
Would I be able to use a forge like yours to not only do blacksmith work, but also to do a some precious metal refining and/or make Al or Cu ingots for fabricating custom parts? And would ribbon burners also be useful in smelting/baking furnaces?
Pressure of the gas IS irrelevant in forced air burners. The regulator may indicate 0.1 psi and still you may pass thru it a very large amount of fuel. In venturi systems, you need the speed of the gas in order to draw air...you need speed so you need pressure builp behind the pinhole in order to work. But the amount of gas injected depends of the diameter of the pinhole...thru a small hole less gas ,large hole more gas ..for the same pressure/speed of the gas jet. By a needle of a syringe you have speed at the one end on the needle and tou have pressure inside the cylinder... still in 1 minute you inject 10 ml of liquid...from an open bottle you may inject 10 liters or liquid in 1 minute. Efficiency of the forced air systems comes from totally different thing, not psi . When you mix enough air for the amountnof fuel,the oxidation takes place at the muzzle of the burner. With venturi sistems is very hard to proper acieve the perfect numbers for a perrfect carburation. You need a certain speed of the gas flow thru pinhole,that speed must be correlated with air absorbtion holes( diameter, position) AND the pinhole diameter cause larger hole for the same speed means ore fuel so need for.more air...diameter of the pipe is also important.... Then the gases must be perfectly mixed before they get out...you can not mix them inside the system without slowing down the flux of gases ,that would interfere with airdraw thru venturi zone of the system... Is not easy to reach that ballance of those variables...once you modify one of them,all the rest need to be modified...there is a small interval which keeps the system relatively efficient but ... By not having enough oxigen the fuel burns outside the forge(flames)...heat is lost, you heat the room not the insider of the forge. In forced air systems, you can tune the quantity of gas and air and very easy you can produce perfect mixture.the burning takes places at the muzzle of the burner,all the heat is produced inside the forge. So psi is irrelevant in forced gaz systems and this system is just more flexible,you can tune the mixture as you wish not as you are aloowed by pile diameter,holes and pressures of gas. BUT a well tuned venturi can be as efficent while a forced air if badly set can be very bad in terms of efficiency. It is all about tuning the parameters involved for a perfect carburation.
Hi you seem to know your stuff. I have a question you might be able to answer if you have time. I've seen forced air ribbon burners like the one in this video with a cast refractory inside box section steel. I've also seen forced air running through just a 2 inch black iron fitting with a plate welded on the end and drilled. My question is could you do the same with box section steel but without the castable inserted. I'm thinking as the heat is only at the holes the steel won't over heat of it was say a 6mm plate welded on to the side of the box and drilled. Thanks in advance if you are able to help. I'm going to build a forced air burner and might experiment with burner heads.
@@FOGGYFOODear Liam, it will be a pleasure to share of my experience. I just have to say it is more than one sentence answer and there are few more things to talk about in order to make a functional burner. As here, on this channel, the design is different enough, I would preffer to "Move" this discussion on my video with my burner, it wouldbe easier for me to reffer to that ribbon type and to follow notifications. th-cam.com/video/eHk_IIm4-Dc/w-d-xo.html I would like to appologise to the owner of this channel for this, is not my desire to "steal" viewers from this channel or anything like this, also I would like to thank for this video which helped me a lot to make my own with the parts I have been able to find and manufacture. If there is a problem i posted the link of my vid here please tell me, I repeat I have no intention to upset anyone, just help others and maybe improve my own design. Regards, Liviu E.
To add I use a gate valve to regulate my air blast and I use a bouncy house blower. You mentioned the price to build one. for me it was not at all expencive. And with a ribbon burner you can heat any castable or fire brick and reach welding temps no matter what you use for a forge refractory, soft brick,Kaowool, low cement castable . I used 2 in. of kaowool and cast the rest with high alumina low cement castables and like I said I love it and would recommend this type of blown forge to anyone who is building one... Martin M&S Blades
Sometimes u remember me Efesto....but with american accent ;) and as gods astonished ancient humans, u astonish "video humans" with ur knowledge...thanks for sharing...as Gods never did btw, may be they need a UTube Channel tool :). With a lot of respect from Italy Happy Christmas Sir
OK, I will join the nitpicking: Pressure is measured in Pounds per Square Inch (PSI), as shown on the gauge. Force is measured in Pounds. But the video is very informative - thanks!
Hey man, than you for sharing all this knowledge and accumulated experience. Here in Argentina craftsmen are usually very very tight lipped, wich makes some trade secrets fall into oblivion. You're almost like a mentor or a hero. Also, thanks to all the other guys and gals that participate in the channel, you're the best!
+Essential Craftsmen, am just curious? What would you think would come of coating the surface of the burner with ITC100? Would it help w tye refractory of the castable and keep the heating down to a minimum while perhaps minutely aiding in the forge itself? Just a rank rookie looking at options for building his first forge/foundry. Blessed day sirSir, Crawford out.
Can the hot exhaust be recycled via a turbo curcuit? I keep seeing furnaces and thinking how much heat is being lost to the environment and I keep imagining ways to reduce the loss and electric is the simplest way
thank you for showing I am very interested please tell me how is it mounted on the forge. is it mounted with expansion room around it or mounted tight no gaps do you make it bracketed on the out side or inside could you please show or tell. thank you again Dave
I love the video and yes I’m interested in trying the ribbon burner I have a small forge now but I need to make a bigger one I also have access to refractory and I am a welder by trade so I might even try to build my own
If I can make an observation - the base of the blue flames is too far from the ports, suggesting the flow rate of the combustible fuel-air mix is moving much faster than the chain reaction of combustion, until it has slowed down enough after leaving the port, Similar to blowing out an oil well fire with explosives, dissipating the fuel+O2 faster than the chain reaction can sustain. the base of the flames should have a just barely discernible gap from the port. turning down the forced air and/or adding more ports to the burner should fix that.
Hi I'm Bill , Karens other half, she has the youtube script not me. I'm commenting today on behalf of Ron Wailes, you mentioned his name and it left a big hole in my heart. I met Ron when he came into my shop one day walked up and introduced him self and checked out my shop and noticed I had an ironworker and a lot of left over material in the bone yard and wanted to know if I wanted to part with some of it and he proceeded to tell me what he planned on doing with it, he said he wanted to start making forges and rite there he had my attention, I had everything he needed in my bone yard to make several forges and I told him that if you build me a forge you have free range in my bone yard and the ironworker to punch out the parts , I did a lot of the welding for him because he thought my welds were much prettier than his lol. From that day on Ron and I formed a small bond, he would pop in the shop unannounced most of the the time anyway he was a welcome site most of the time, taught me a lot. The reason I'm on this channel is I still have Ron's forge and the ribbon burner is wore out ( the refractory) and I wanted to find out how to rebuild it and noticed you had the same ribbon burner so I clicked on your video and low and behold you blurted Ron's name, caught me off guard a little bit. Nice to know Ron lives on! Just wanted to share. RIP Ron Wailes! THANK YOU!
Scott thanks for everything you share, I hate when the public is critical your just offering some general advice or opinions to help people maybe have the courage to try something that’s maybe not in there comfort level. Keep it up sir !!!!!!!!
You are such a great communicator! I am not in the construction or smithing industry but you keep me engaged and what you say makes sense and is educational. This is old school, how PBS and Discovery Channel used to be. Great stuff!
Dear sir, I want to thank you for your awesome channel. I was turned onto your channel by AvE. You two have taught me a lot of tricks to make my daily work so much easier and faster. Many thanks.
I wanted to say thank you for the knowledge you impart. I've worked in IT for the past 11 years and have always wanted to go back to a hobby that had me working with my hands.
I've done some basic woodworking but I've always loved the idea of blacksmithing/welding from watching my friends father as a kid. After watching your videos and those of Rowan Taylor, I'd been discussing the topic with my wife, who has encouraged me to finally give it a shot by surprising me with a weekend long set of lessons close to where I live as a very early birthday present. If I find I really do enjoy the hobby I'd love to be able to pick your brain on building a forge someday. Thank you for your fantastic channel.
Ron Reil was the inspiration of all of my forge builds. He was a giant of a man. I never knew him or had any interaction, but I'm so grateful of such an artist to so willingly share all of his wisdom!
I hate just contributing to the echo chamber but damn, this is such a great channel.
I like your thoughts in this one. Trial and error does work. Build it, identify inefficiencies, improve design, rebuild and so on.
Just curious if you are familiar with the gentlemen from here in New Mexico that had an actual school that taught blacksmithing? They were known all over the world for their abilities and school apparently! Their shop was out in the mountains next to I-40! Tragically they were killed when a semi truck ran off the road and crashed through the shop! Was a terrible sad story but they were cutting edge blacksmiths! Edit: I see from further reading in your comments that you actually did know the guy I was referring to! I didnt know him personally but I live in the same area , and, the story really touched my heart! He sounded like a great person and a great contributor to a better world! Life truly isnt fair sometimes when the world loses someone like that! My heart goes out to his family and friends!
Thank you. You are salt on this earth. I learn so much about basic human interaction from watching your channel. I wish that I lived closer to you. I feel like you would make a terrific host.
Salt on the Earth is not a good thing...
The fact that i appreciate your videos makes me feel better about myself, and let's me know I'm not alone.Out of all the carpenters and craftsmen on YT, you've got the touch. You have the grandpa doing EVERYTHING right, with tricks etc. and think through EVERY single process in the chain. I can't stand working with most people, at least in Ca-Land of the Lazy. They end up working harder because they don't think things through and roll their eyes when a guy like you lays down the tech instead of learning. You're probably way better than me at inspiring better work out of your crews when doing big jobs too. When you're all 'younger' dudes banging out work, there's always some weird alpha pecking order BS with where everyone has to prove they're a 'bad-ass'. I love working with guys like this. You seem like good people.
It is "molecules" of oxygen -- the form that's useful for breathing and burning is two oxygen atoms stuck together, and they'd rather be stuck to one or two atoms of carbon or two of hydrogen (releasing a bit of energy in the transition, which is what powers our bodies and our forges). Hydrogen and nitrogen are the same way, in that the pure gas is paired atoms (and nitrogen REALLY WANTS to be N2, that's why nitrogen-based explosives work so well.)
Delivery McGee diatomic elements
Well explained. I was about to make a similar comment. *I'm work in and have gone to college for chemistry.
THANKYOU GENTILEMEN FOR YOUR INPUT.....
Ye, what he said;0)
Electron Pusher Me too, I'm a chemical engineer and these things trigger me (because I know them)
I've noticed that you don't "um", "ah" or "err" much, if at all, when you speak. Very eloquent.
That is a sign of someone who knows and is passionate about the topic. He does not have to search for the words. They just come to him. I can listen to him speak all day long and I have learned something from every video.
,
@SEMPER PROGRATIS Of course this is merely an asinine comment pertaining to satire; but you can, in fact, turn "Caps Lock" on and off sir. But yes this gentleman is quite the intelligent person.
I discovered your channel about a week ago and I just gotta say I admire your level of knowledge, craftsmanship and the spreading of safety awareness. Keep up the good work!
I want more spec house videos! (all your videos are great, but I love the construction ones the most)
YES this means it's starting to get rainy and cold out there and it's time to get some blacksmithing going lol, I love all the different aspects of the channel but the blacksmithing is by far my favorite! Thanks for taking the time to share some of your vast knowledge as a craftsman with us.
I’ll never have a forge. Well 97% sure but I still enjoyed every bit of the video. Scott you are an amazing teacher.
Justin Underwood its not hard to make a char coal forge cheap. Start with that and save up for the forge you want like i am besides you appreciate things more when you build them
Hi, not going into the maths, but the flame chemistry tells a story. That big purple flame at 4:17, downstream of the blue cones, shows there's lots of carbon monoxide coming off that propane/air mixture. Needs more air moving more slowly (to keep the flames on the block). Gas flames ideally should be bright blue cones only.
The grey cloud near your ceiling might just be condensed steam from combustion or mixed with incompletely burned soot, but it being there suggests your workshop needs more ventilation. Carbon monoxide poisoning is extremely nasty, even when it's not fatal it causes generalised damage across all brain functions.
Great videos, please stay safe, we want lots more of them.
So what would be the solution Charles? More burners staged and introduced as needed to burn the fuel efficiently or just more that are always in play and just not getting the fuel air mixture due to lower pressure? Isn't there a chance of the combustion moving back up the supply line at the lower pressures ? Or at least into the burners if there are more connected than there is fuel air mix to burn?
Thank you for the information. I've been researching forced air propane forges because I knew it would be more efficient.
I bust your chops on your DieHards and Channelock Wire Pliers, but I must admit. You are one articulate,well-rounded dude.
One of the things I have learned studying and building forges is that you can make a forge out of almost anything. Anything from the classic brake drum to a hole in the ground can be a forge. Even a green tree stump, if it has enough mass, will do the trick... once.
One the most informative and well hosted shows anywhere. Glad i found this channel early this summer. Great man, great show.
The video quality is excellent. I don't know how much planning and preparation goes in to this....but the Lightning , camera placement, editing, sound.....all excellent.
The way your ribbon works is similar to a hot air balloon burner. The difference between the 2 of them is the hot air balloon burner draws the propane from the bottom of the tank in liquid form which creates 15 million BTUs on the smaller hot air balloons and up to 30 million BTUs for the bigger hot air balloons. As soon as the hot air balloon ride is over and you turn the propane off you can touch the burners and not get burned at all. Which is extremely important because if the pilot has to land in high winds over 10mph he can put the parachute out of the top of the balloon and lay it on it's side which can burn the rip stop material that all balloons are made out of. A normal flight in Las Vegas in the middle of the summer we can fly 10 passengers not including the pilot and propane on board and use less than 75 gallons of propane for 1 hour to 1½ hour flight, but we have 100 gallons of propane on board for each flight.
I have a dual burner and single burner forge that I run at 7 psi as well!!! Mine are atmospheric burners that seem to be quite efficient. My single burner will run around 4.5-5 hours on a 20 # tank @ 6-7 psi. Seems anything past 7 psi is a waste of fuel and doesn't get any hotter. Your MONSTER forge is a beauty!!!
The spirits of your ancestors are watching over you !
Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
I had a Craftsman table saw that only whispered. Everyone who used it was amazed. Even during rip cuts through hardwoods it only ever made a slight hissing sound that was very pleasant to hear. I miss that saw so so dearly. It was my inheritance but my stepdad borrowed it and left it where he used it never to be seen again. Had I known I would have drove the several hundred miles to get it back. Nothing like power teamed with silence in the shop!
Yeah, I bought a three burner devil forge and I ran it outside one day, just to see how well it would work. While it did heat the metal up to forging temps, it took a good bit of propane to do so. It uses ventury burners and while it was outside and the blowing of the wind had a great effect on how fast it heated up, I saw that I wasn't getting a good oxygen to fuel ratio(at least not good enough for me), so I'm going to build my own forge with ribbon burners. Mine's not going to be as large as yours, but it'll dwarf the devil forge. Thanks for your informative video, I've watched many of your videos and always get a lot of useful information out of them. 🖖😎⚒
Great video! Workin on my ribbon burner now, got it set in the casting mold yesterday. Now we wait!
Scott thank you for the information. This channel will help many people learn how to do things that other channel leave out never stop teaching you are good at it. Merry Christmas to you and your family. Best wishes John.
You're very right about the venturi style burners, they are loud. I have 3 on my forge and its hard to talk over them especially when all 3 are going at once although i only use my gas forge for production forging or hopefully soon to forge a small billet of damascus. Still very much love my coal forge and always will. the forge you built is something to talk about. Very nice design and I have heard a lot of good things about ribbon burners. Keep up the great content and thank you very much for sharing the knowledge you have. It is very much appreciated by me and I am sure many many others.
I plan on eventually positioning the forge above the burner so as to minimise the chimney effect. Also I want to make a ribbon burner that directly heats the surface of the floor of my forge with a perimeter of open space around the floor. Suspended in a way above the burner with very little extra space above the metal being forged. I'm ASSUMING that this will minimise not only my propane usage, not only my heat up time but also the oxygen within the forge. Thank you for your time Scott. Your channel is most helpful.
I wish I could spend a summer mentoring under you, I feel like I would learn a lot.
I used on of Ron's designs for my first forge. It's still running. Great little forge.
Funny how I could read/watch a dozen opinions on a subject, when I hear you, I believe it.
The smoke plume footage at the end was worth a thumbs-up all by itself. The rest was a bonus. :)
One of the things I love is your voice. It is soothing
You have a way of taking a subject that would normally bore me to death (and make me promptly click off the video) and making it very interesting. Thank you.
For a while I’ve considered designing a burner after the “ linear arrow spike” rocket engine for the exact benefits that this much more simple design dose to evenly heat a blade.
Proof that I over think simple problems :)
If you ever make that happen brother, shoot me a comment man.
I'm not entirely sure what that would accomplish though, you're not trying to prevent the flame from expanding without thrust in a vacuum, you've got all the pressure you could ever ask for within an enclosed forge at one atmo. Notice that the ribbon burner doesn't do as well outside the forge as it does inside with some back pressure. The best it would do is to concentrate the flame in a line, which a ribbon already accomplishes in a diffuse manner (diffuse being preferable to concentrated) but then you've also got the problem of the aerospike body heating up without any means of active cooling (which is one reason why aerospikes aren't used in rockets). I mean, you're basically making a ribbon burner with extra steps and more complex problems. It wouldn't solve anything beyond a "look what I did" project.
I don't know if you are or have been a teacher but you sure would make a good one. Great job, keep up the great work with the blessings God has given you.
Thank you so very much for all of the knowledge that you pass along to us!
2:11 "make a damascus burke" bar is what i heard
Good topic. Looking forward to when I have the time to build a large forge. I'll remember about the ribbon burner.
I can’t clearly see your piping arrangement but it looks like you have an open pipe from the air blower with no control valve and a regulator on the propane. If so, your 2 lb setting will tend to run lean and your 7 lb setting will tend to run rich. The video of the burner outside the forge shows a yellow flame extending past the short blue flames. That’s a rich flame. ( I realize that it will burn differently inside the forge.)
I’d recommend that, at a minimum, you have controls on the air and the gas so you can adjust for a “ perfect” flame by eye.
If you need to change firing rates often, and if fuel costs and time are important, the ideal setup would be control of the air with a pressure line after the air valve going to a gas regulator. That way you could control the firing rate and the gas would “follow” the air and keep a reasonably ideal flame.
Dear EC, I am getting into blacksmithing and gathering information on how to make a ribbon burner. How did you make the lower portion of your burner. The part that looks like a fire brick. Your blower motors are from where? Did you use a MIG tip for your nozzle. You run off of propane. I wonder if it would get hot enough using natural gas. Great information and love to watch to gain more knowledge. Thanks again.
Liked your video on the ribbon burner and thought this will be a great challenge for my next project along with a small refractory . I have finished a coal forge and a propane forge already. I am a new subscriber and will surf your site for more helpful tips. Thank you so much for your time and hope for a good year!
When I scrapped an old furnace,it had 3 burner bars that look a LOT like that burner.Gonna hafta do some tests.Good thing I never throw anything away,lol ;-)
As usual, another informative video. I will definitely keep this burner in mind. Thanks for sharing.
I was looking for some advice, a venturi
( which i have), a forced air burner or a ribbon burner. you settled the argument in the most wonderful way. Thank you!
That is just about the coolest shop ever!
Im a pool guy. I wonder if you could use the burning tray from a propane pool heater. If you ever see one out for garbage 90% of the time it's the heat exchanger that breaks because of poor water chemistry, so the burner tray should still be intact.
Kevin Stempien I'm not familiar with those heaters, is the metal resistant enough to the high temps?
Most burners are made to go under what they are heating so not good at being in the heat. They will ether get soft from the heat or oxidize rapidly so need to be replaced often.
great info. Thanks!
That is a very cool forge. I would be interested in building a smaller version of one.
I wound love to build one of these. Thanks for all your video's
I need to get a property with a small forest on it for my older days. where I can put up my own workshop too :D
Merry Christmas to you and yours sir, and thank you for the videos :)
Scott, you mentioned the burner likes some back pressure to get the flames to sit back onto the burner.
Is it possible to slightly reduce the speed of the forced draught fan? This flame lifting effect you mention is normally too lean a gas/air mixture.
I'm building an asphalt heater, cept there's no info on the web about making these, so I hope to apply these principals to that application. Instead of a refractory brick with through holes, the refractory will be some ceramic fiber (kaowool) sandwiched between stainless steel wire mesh. It's my hope that I can mount this refractory sandwich in a metal box to create that mixing zone behind the refractory and ignite the air/gas as it leaches through. If that works, I will be all smiles!
whatever you use for the tubes? "crayons"? they need to be reconfigured so the tips are flame retention tips and are cast in place. That will keep the flame on the face of the castable and not blow away. You start with larger crayons that then 1/4 inch from the opening has a ring that reduces down to the smaller crayon size, the opens back up to the larger size. Look up flame retention tips for furnaces and you will get the idea. This will keep the flame sucked onto the face of the burner and then will not allow the flame to blow off.
Probably the best teacher yet!
Awesome can’t wait for the forge plans also. 👍
What blower do you use?
I would like to know this as well.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It really helped me a lot. :)
Just bought one of these beasts!
Another great idea thank you very much
Another fine job of informing us please keep it up....
Camera work in this video is fantastic. Shots are crisp and clean. The framing and color are great too. I love the contrast with that orange cabinet in you main talking shot.
Wonderful videos! Thank you for making them for us.
Really nice. a definite consideration when I setup my gas forge.
I love the ribbon burners I have made.
Awesome! I'd love to see the process of making one of these!
Ribobn Burners are GREAT! if your frge is going to be stationary and you have electricity to run some air pumps that is! but for a guy just doing little projects and just starting a venturi is pretty dang good. i can remove the pipe and set that aside and stow my forge when I am done... because I have to.
Dude, you're awesome! Do you ever think about building a second forge for demonstration purposes? Like, you could teach classes or something. I'd attend.
Very valuable information, thank you for sharing.
Seems like that is the way to go. Like the burner rack on a furnace, tiny holes and multiple manifolded burners
I just built a forced air propane forge. Towards the end of it all, I was wondering why I didn't make the burner head rectangular shaped to produce a "ribbon burner". I wish I would have thought of it earlier in the build. Guess I will need to build another one. Nice video.
I had the same experience with my propane stove for making beer. The banjo style burner which is similar to the ribbon burner in some respects, was quieter, less fuel, less carbon on the bottom of my kettles. But it was about 2.5 times the cost of a cheapo jet style burner.
Calorific value (btu per cubic ft)
Propane - 2500
Natural gas - 1000
That's according to a ANSI standard. However it changes all the time and will be different every time u have a tank filled
THANKYOU AGAIN!! WAITING FOR THE NEXT ONE..!
Would I be able to use a forge like yours to not only do blacksmith work, but also to do a some precious metal refining and/or make Al or Cu ingots for fabricating custom parts? And would ribbon burners also be useful in smelting/baking furnaces?
Pressure of the gas IS irrelevant in forced air burners.
The regulator may indicate 0.1 psi and still you may pass thru it a very large amount of fuel.
In venturi systems, you need the speed of the gas in order to draw air...you need speed so you need pressure builp behind the pinhole in order to work.
But the amount of gas injected depends of the diameter of the pinhole...thru a small hole less gas ,large hole more gas ..for the same pressure/speed of the gas jet.
By a needle of a syringe you have speed at the one end on the needle and tou have pressure inside the cylinder... still in 1 minute you inject 10 ml of liquid...from an open bottle you may inject 10 liters or liquid in 1 minute.
Efficiency of the forced air systems comes from totally different thing, not psi .
When you mix enough air for the amountnof fuel,the oxidation takes place at the muzzle of the burner.
With venturi sistems is very hard to proper acieve the perfect numbers for a perrfect carburation.
You need a certain speed of the gas flow thru pinhole,that speed must be correlated with air absorbtion holes( diameter, position) AND the pinhole diameter cause larger hole for the same speed means ore fuel so need for.more air...diameter of the pipe is also important....
Then the gases must be perfectly mixed before they get out...you can not mix them inside the system without slowing down the flux of gases ,that would interfere with airdraw thru venturi zone of the system...
Is not easy to reach that ballance of those variables...once you modify one of them,all the rest need to be modified...there is a small interval which keeps the system relatively efficient but ...
By not having enough oxigen the fuel burns outside the forge(flames)...heat is lost, you heat the room not the insider of the forge.
In forced air systems, you can tune the quantity of gas and air and very easy you can produce perfect mixture.the burning takes places at the muzzle of the burner,all the heat is produced inside the forge.
So psi is irrelevant in forced gaz systems and this system is just more flexible,you can tune the mixture as you wish not as you are aloowed by pile diameter,holes and pressures of gas.
BUT a well tuned venturi can be as efficent while a forced air if badly set can be very bad in terms of efficiency.
It is all about tuning the parameters involved for a perfect carburation.
Hi you seem to know your stuff. I have a question you might be able to answer if you have time. I've seen forced air ribbon burners like the one in this video with a cast refractory inside box section steel. I've also seen forced air running through just a 2 inch black iron fitting with a plate welded on the end and drilled. My question is could you do the same with box section steel but without the castable inserted. I'm thinking as the heat is only at the holes the steel won't over heat of it was say a 6mm plate welded on to the side of the box and drilled. Thanks in advance if you are able to help. I'm going to build a forced air burner and might experiment with burner heads.
@@FOGGYFOODear Liam, it will be a pleasure to share of my experience.
I just have to say it is more than one sentence answer and there are few more things to talk about in order to make a functional burner.
As here, on this channel, the design is different enough, I would preffer to "Move" this discussion on my video with my burner, it wouldbe easier for me to reffer to that ribbon type and to follow notifications.
th-cam.com/video/eHk_IIm4-Dc/w-d-xo.html
I would like to appologise to the owner of this channel for this, is not my desire to "steal" viewers from this channel or anything like this, also I would like to thank for this video which helped me a lot to make my own with the parts I have been able to find and manufacture.
If there is a problem i posted the link of my vid here please tell me, I repeat I have no intention to upset anyone, just help others and maybe improve my own design.
Regards, Liviu E.
That was very informative and thank you, I would like to see how to make a ribbon burner, and could you use one for a single burn forge?
To add I use a gate valve to regulate my air blast and I use a bouncy house blower. You mentioned the price to build one. for me it was not at all expencive. And with a ribbon burner you can heat any castable or fire brick and reach welding temps no matter what you use for a forge refractory, soft brick,Kaowool, low cement castable . I used 2 in. of kaowool and cast the rest with high alumina low cement castables and like I said I love it and would recommend this type of blown forge to anyone who is building one... Martin M&S Blades
Sometimes u remember me Efesto....but with american accent ;)
and as gods astonished ancient humans, u astonish "video humans" with ur knowledge...thanks for sharing...as Gods never did btw, may be they need a UTube Channel tool :). With a lot of respect from Italy Happy Christmas Sir
As usual excellent video!
I like your style. Apparently so do a lot of others. You are almost to 200k. Great job.
Awesome video Scott!
OK, I will join the nitpicking: Pressure is measured in Pounds per Square Inch (PSI), as shown on the gauge. Force is measured in Pounds. But the video is very informative - thanks!
I like this guy he’s like the mr.rogers of blacksmithing
Great data man! You gotta show us a how to sometime!
Hey man, than you for sharing all this knowledge and accumulated experience. Here in Argentina craftsmen are usually very very tight lipped, wich makes some trade secrets fall into oblivion. You're almost like a mentor or a hero. Also, thanks to all the other guys and gals that participate in the channel, you're the best!
Very interesting Scott, Thanks
You are greatly appreciated, thank you.
I'm starting my own ribbon burner, waiting on my Missou refractory to arrive
+Essential Craftsmen, am just curious? What would you think would come of coating the surface of the burner with ITC100? Would it help w tye refractory of the castable and keep the heating down to a minimum while perhaps minutely aiding in the forge itself?
Just a rank rookie looking at options for building his first forge/foundry.
Blessed day sirSir, Crawford out.
I use two WARD burners #3 with propane 8 cu ft chamber I use 2 lbs pressure works good
"and you're going to build a forge and it's going to work"
I am?
splashstrike LOL
Yes, it is inevitable. Resistance is futile.
Can the hot exhaust be recycled via a turbo curcuit? I keep seeing furnaces and thinking how much heat is being lost to the environment and I keep imagining ways to reduce the loss and electric is the simplest way
thank you for showing I am very interested please tell me how is it mounted on the forge. is it mounted with expansion room around it or mounted tight no gaps do you make it bracketed on the out side or inside could you please show or tell. thank you again Dave
thank you for your time and effort.
I love the video and yes I’m interested in trying the ribbon burner I have a small forge now but I need to make a bigger one I also have access to refractory and I am a welder by trade so I might even try to build my own
If I can make an observation - the base of the blue flames is too far from the ports, suggesting the flow rate of the combustible fuel-air mix is moving much faster than the chain reaction of combustion, until it has slowed down enough after leaving the port, Similar to blowing out an oil well fire with explosives, dissipating the fuel+O2 faster than the chain reaction can sustain. the base of the flames should have a just barely discernible gap from the port. turning down the forced air and/or adding more ports to the burner should fix that.