You too! I hope Dream stans won't come here. Edit: people, after reading some replies I can see that many of you use "stan" instead of "superfan" Stan: (noun) an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity. Fan + stalker = stan Superfan: a very or extremely devoted fan.
"Players don't cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time faster" I wanna put that on a fuckin medal and send that to you, that's such a good quote.
Even if we get the entire world population(7.837.225.230 last I checked) + half ot this number (to account for "unnacounted" individuals) and apply the chances of this happening, you would have it happen less than 0.07% of the time...
Took me a minute to understand that tbh. So, the quotes basically “Not cheating for a faster time in the run, its cheating to raise the chances of a decent time in a run
@@Damascene_ that's not exaaactly what it means, but it's close. The better at speedrunning you get, the more you're competing with world record, the more good RNG matters. It's not that having good rng increases the chances you get a decent time, it's that bad, or even moderate RNG kills your run straight up. You don't get a bad time, you run just ends. You don't get a time at all. The wind waker any% speedrun was asscheeks for a long time (until a trick was discovered a few years ago that isn't rng), where at the very very end of a 2 hour run, there was an extremely RNG dependent trick you had to do (zombie fairy hover) and if you were competing for world record, if you missed it enough times, well tough luck you just wasted 2 hours try again buckoooo. Your run could be complete trash but if you got it first try you suddenly had 30 mins under your PB.
@@AcolyteOfLucifer i wouldn't assume he cheated in all of his runs since it is clear that he is skilled at the game. But this definitely will put all of his previous and future 1.6+ runs into question
When I'm playing single-player games (in a non-competitive fashion), this is the reason I use console commands or cheats in games most of the time. I just want to skip grinds and get back to enjoying the game.
@@novaueclipse It means they will eventually reach the fastest time. It's just they'll need to play lots and lots to get a *Lucky* break to have a chance at getting fastest time. Let's say you're driving home, you'll eventually reach your home right? Sometimes real fast and some other times not so fast, because Traffic jams, red lights, etc exists Now let's say you "Manipulate" the Traffic light to show more green on your Lane, or you can somehow direct the traffic too. Do you see where I'm getting at? Where other drivers have to drive over and over again to get that perfect "Lucky" break where the Lights are green and there's no traffic a Cheater can simply turn the tides favouring himself
The very first thing that bothered me about Dreams "statement" was that he apprently hired a world famous scientist that does astro statistics but didn't even bother to mention his name...
If it was actually real, I can understand wanting to remain anonymous tbh. Your a very well regarded astrophysicist and then you start writing papers on a youtubers Minecraft speed run drama. Not a very good look lol.
@@TheAnimationStationTAS he was the one that got the Apollo rocket to the moon, he simply changed the gravitational force of the earth in the code, which meant it was easier for the rocket to get to space
I've known speedrunning was a thing for a long time, but I never knew the ins and outs until just recently. Karl's videos have been pretty educational since he doesn't assume everybody knows how it works.
Fun fact: MinecrAvenger (the guy who noticed Dream's luck) was also caught cheating pretty much every single one of his run by ironically changing the luck of his runs.
@@jaydensydes3478 Oh, you missed it? Yesterday Dream admitted to cheating. Well, he claimed he "accidentally" had the cheat on. But what's important is, *he did it*.
Considering how easy it is to modify the loot tables I'm surprised the minecraft speed running community doesn't have better technical checks / verification / proofs required for runs.
Some files are now required for top runs, but there are still ways to cheat that are basically undetectable. Fortunately, the way the meta has shifted recently has put much more emphasis on the seed you get rather than the rng you get within it, and set seeds are much easier to detect than loot table manipulation.
Showing a hash of the files when the credits appear will help to mitigate this easily, I hope Mojang cooperates with the speedrunning community to implement such a feature
Speaking of which, how would you do that? I kinda stopped messing around with commandblocks, one command machines all that stuff right before the first 1.13 snapshot. I heard some myths here and there about datapacks, but I don‘t really know if it‘s just that
i actually find this very funny because dream was one of the first people complaining about this issue and gave a ton of (imo) good ideas as to how they could be more verifiable, yet here he is a couple months later cheating himself
My main gripe with this situation is that fans are saying that it doesnt matter if Dream cheated or not, which completely ruins the integrity of speed running as a whole.
Yeah Like I play hollow knight and i did every boss and No hits (which I did) And some dude walks and tells they did it as well but shows no evidence and is being jerk and try to hide he's cheating Of course I am gonna get angry because doing every boss radiant (which means in the game as doing the boss no hit) it just so spite me for even trying to it honestly.
It actually does not matter if Dream cheated or not, to his community, knowing his content isn't focused on speedrunning and this drama will be buried by his popularity so I don't get why people still argue against the evidence, math, and simulations that he cheated. What makes this issue so wrong is that after all of this, if Dream won't admit his run was tampered it's the integrity of the speedrunning community that is ruined. If a person can get away with cheating like that, others will think it's okay too. I am actually a fan of his content but I stayed updated because of the math lol. I never even thought that simulations can be ran from the data given, the more I know now.
Honestly, huge respect to the Minecraft speedrunning mod team. The huge effort put forth that was above and beyond what was required of them in order to keep the community clean.
@@valerienotfound3898 BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHSHSHAHAHAG im legit crying right now at your comments in this channel, get off here dream Stan, he cheated that's it, your God cheated and is no longer a God. Thanks to you my stomach hurts from how much I laughed at you lmaooo
There were only two decent ways of handling this from the get-go: Either admit "Yeah, I cheated because I was frustrated with how ridiculously RNG-dependent this category is. Sorry, I won't do it again," or simply say "I know my luck was really insane. I didn't cheat, but I understand the moderators' conclusion and accept that they cannot verify my run." Instead, he called the mods "biased" for even investigating him while not addressing the actual reason they gave for doing so, acted as though his submitted run not being a WR time magically made it more legitimate, and even went as far as to ban people from his subreddit that accused him of cheating. Even on the virtually impossibly small chance he didn't cheat, the way he handled the situation was incredibly immature, and quite frankly, suspect at best.
@@xnadulxnadul7741 Yeah, too little too late. The issue was that instead of handling that way from the very beginning, he was constantly calling the mods' credibility into question, harassed them for removing his run, and indirectly encouraged his fanbase to harass them as a result. And in the end, the closest he could come to "I understand their decision" was basically "At this point I don't really care if the run is verified anymore, but here's why they're wrong and how far off their calculations were," while not even addressing the fact that he had his anonymous professional add in 5 additional streams from 2 months prior in a clear attempt to skew the data *after* complaining they didn't do enough to adjust for stoppage. His response video was filled with condescension towards the mods as well, basically saying "Well I know these guys are young and not exactly professionals" to attack their credibility instead of presenting any actual errors in their calculations. He also made it sound as though they were biasing the data *against* him when in reality all he was proving was that maybe they didn't bias it in his favor *as much as they possibly could have.* No matter how calm about the situation he is now, his response as a whole was a far cry from just saying "Yeah, I understand," and was still disingenuous at best. No matter how much better he does now and in the future, that doesn't mean he didn't handle it poorly for weeks on end.
I do agree that he handled it immaturely, and that he absolutely should be professional given his following, that's one of the responsibilities of a celebrity of any kind, due to their influence, though please do remember that he's only human and probably has a lot of stress on his shoulders. Either he is innocent, in which case him getting angry is very understandable, as he'd been publicly, falsely accused and couldn't really do anything to stop his reputation from taking a permanent blow, especially after talking to the mods to have a setup to prevent this exact thing from happening. Or he's guilty, in which case he probably should've seen it coming, though I still believe he has good reason to get mad. The mods made it way more public than it really should've been, probably knowing that even something so minor would be a big blow to his reputation. To be clear I'm not saying the mods are the "villains" or anything, nobody is perfect. And one last thing, he has a personal life and could be going through a bad time. The last thing anyone needs is either massive hate based on something wrong, or massive hate based on something insignificant. Please be nice, I know he's a grown man and this is the real world, etc. etc., but words are some of the most hurtful things in "the real world" and the shortcomings of others shouldn't be used as an excuse for your own shortcomings. (That wasn't to anyone in particular, btw, just anyone reading, and while I'm aware it isn't relevant to this conversation please consider it)
Couldn't have worded it better, fam. I too am a fan of Dream since the hunters were only George and Sapnap. Yes, I enjoy his content, but I totally agree with everything you said. I no longer care if he cheated or not because all sides claim to be right and I don't want to dig any further into this anymore. It's true that he handled this issue kinda poorly, whether he did cheat or not. He kinda didn't come off as legitimate with his defense, although he did re-arrange his defense and I give him props for that, no matter how late it is. That said, I just wish for the best for this issue and I'll just neutrally sit by here until a proper conclusion is reached.
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time, faster.” And this is why most speed runs, even world records, are pretty much always slower than the 'sum of best segments', getting one lucky segment or performing it flawlessly isn't too hard for the speedrunners, but getting 20+ segments absolutely perfectly even without RNG to take an absolute dump on your attempts... Yeah, that's tough as nails and will require loads and loads of time to achieve even after acquiring the skills to do so.
We should make a speed running category where drop rates are allowed to be altered. As I think that whould significant lower the ammount of cheating in speed runs
That's the thing, he could have not posted the run as legit and just said that he messed with the numbers to make the grind less long and boring, but he didn't, he pretended it was legit. It would make sense that his manhunt videos or w/e had better odds, since no one wants to watch someone waste a bunch of time on RNG, those videos are made with entertainment in mind, so the legitimacy of them don't matter, but if you are going to claim that a run is legit, then that's different, that has intent to deceive and ruins your integrity.
@@erikburzinski8248 there’s already a fixed seed category of Minecraft speed runs for this purpose. In any event one of the points of speed running is that you need to be good enough AND consistent enough that when the good RNG comes by, you don’t choke. It’s part of managing your nerves, and it’s what makes the discipline so exciting.
in his video he says that alot of his audience come to him cause he's an expert in speed running in general. And i doubt if he wasn't asked to, then it wouldn't have made this video. So I'm pretty sure he attracted an audience away from a game like minecraft so he gets discriptive for those people who know little about the game. also, idk if you knew this but Dream actually means *7.7 billion*
I’ve never seen Minecraft before, only heard my grandkids talk about it. I didn’t know what speedrunning is. You explained everything so well that I know EXACTLY what the problem was, how it was investigated, what the various analyses were, and how you came to your conclusion. Very well done. Fantastic video!!
Reading this makes me so happy. Always love seeing people interact with something you'd expect they wouldn't understand because its far from their generation and yet they still understand and enjoy. Happy for you and now you're able to relate with your grandkids ever so slightly more on one of their video games.
@@jotham8654 Does it matter? Minecraft isn’t just a kids game. Jeez, people forget that the elderly have lives, too, and that not all of them are computer-illiterate.
My biggest issue with Dream’s statement was him stating that modding the game’s files was the *only* way he could cheat. He’s on PC, he could very easily run separate software to manipulate memory values in the Java VM. Not saying he did, it was just really strange he spent so much time explaining the ways he didn’t cheat and denied there being any other way
this is very hard and complicated. and i think he plays on mac which probably makes it more complicated. but i kinda see your point, there are always a lot of ways to cheat, especially in minecraft
there was some problems with the geosquare video about him modding, which concludes me to this: Dream didn't cheat, but the probability is so low that it will be taken out of the speedrun leaderboard
Always love that this video didn't end with a "Did dream cheat or not? Idk you guys decide" but with Karl not giving a shit and saying yes he cheated. You're the man Karl
Thanks for including that last little clip at the end with the nervous laughter. A lot of his reactions during the run could come off suspicious, especially having such good drop rates and him not reacting or appreciating it one bit also made it weird to me. Anyone who legitimately got a 1 in a trillion drop would probably scream “no way” or “let’s go”. I don’t watch him a lot but you could probably compare it with any of his reactions in videos. Sadly human behavior can never be solid fact. So I really appreciate the time and work you put into this, and being so neutral and respecting towards both sides.
Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:33 What will be discussed 2:49 Sponsor 3:45 Who is Dream? 5:07 Release of Java Edition 1.16 8:36 Dream's livestreams 9:06 Ender pearl trade luck 10:57 Blaze rod drop luck 11:06 69% (nice) 11:58 Moderation investigation paper 12:18 Misleading probability 13:02 Dream's response video 14:19 Drop luck simulations 15:44 Why a good player might cheat 18:01 What if the ender pearl trade rate were modified? 19:18 Starting point of this video 20:20 Mathematically impossible 20:58 Dream's behavior before WR 22:35 Conclusion 23:52 Outro
I'm more disappointed in the way he responded than him cheating. His responses were quite obviously manipulative and misleading on purpose. He knew most of his following were gullible kids or young teens, using his fans as a shield to push away the truth is rotten.
@@Austin-db6fl AMIR was referring to the unoriginal comments about "it hits different now" which a lot of people uses for free likes, even tho they never understood about the original idea of the comment/video. So instead of throwing out of your mouth "lol dream stan", try to *think* before commenting something. Thanks and have fun.
@「STAND NAME」Kero Kero Bonito「STAND MASTER」Flamingo it doesn't try to justify anything, cheaters are still assholes. It just gives insight to their motivation.
Not enough credit is given to the moderators for their analysis. It was an incredible effort and is a huge credit to the integrity of speedrunning. The fact that their theoretical results are now aligning with large numerical simulations is confirmation of how well they did. Absolute legends.
Dream knows he can’t counter the math so he just uses deception to make the mods look inexperienced. In the original Geosquare video the mods wanted to get a third party but dream didn’t because “third parties are biased to the side that paid for them”. What does he go and do, hire a third party and claim that they are unbiased.
@@aamaruvi and not only that, he literally told the mods that they are "clout chasing".Dream is right over his head with fame where no-one outside of this community knows who he really is lmao.
@@GoogieBuiscut The mods made a rebuttal to his document. Plus, I had any problems with his response myself, especailly how the website was made using Wix.
As far as I'm concerned, the simulations are by far the most reliable evidence that Dream cheated. The fact that the stats that the mods published apparently align with these simulations is very impressive.
Well we do know the mods are that who made the first document and the verified Reddit guy who made a debunking document to dreams respond. we know this people and the background from their public accounts, but the expert from Harvard the dream hired is anonymous he could be from Harvard or he could be a fan that’s in high school we don’t know his background beside what dream says and that’s not the most reliable in this problem. Dream needs to hire someone who is public and has a verified background to make a document to prove his innocences but until then with the current documents it looks to be dream is guilty of cheating
I really like how you actually came to a conclusion rather then just saying “Oh well in conclusion I don’t know it’s left up to interpretation and how you feel har har.” I’m so sick of analysis videos doing that to seem as safe as possible.
@@valuehunter5544 ikr I like the dude but it's so fucking obvious he cheated, there was a comment here, saying if ten billion people all done the speedrun, not one of them would get dreams 'luck.'
@@Destro65 True, but, the odds if it happening are so astronomically ridiculous that to even consider it having actually happened is not only pointless, but stupid.
His tactic of initially claiming his score is not high enough on the leader board to be investigated is the exact same excuse Billy Mitchell gave when he was first accused of cheating as well. Interesting trend here.
This has more to do with how random seed speedruns work, I doubt he intentionally cheated 5th place instead of 1st, he just didn't get the right seed for nr. 1. There's just too much randomness in minecraft speedruns compared with GoldenEye or old arcade games, which have very linear and predictable speedruns.
@@KartonRealista2 yeah these drop chances in set seed 1.16 would probably be a guaranteed 1st for any of the top players in just a few runs. (Unless set seed is like an already complete portal or something I haven’t seen 1.16 set seed)
You humour me greatly with your arrogance and contempt, a flood of accusations born from the poison of envy and smite of disrespect. I feel both disappointment and flattery these thoughts would originate from another player who has demonstrated one of a kind talent and has accomplished the impossible, yet is apparently immune from judgement owing to their reputation, do not think your words hold more credibility just because of who you are, being more well known and what you have accomplished in breaking world records and setting ones never previously accomplished, such as with TNT and Plutonia Nightmare. With that being said I will divulge my thoughts on the serious accusations you have set forth. I won't address the individual gameplay scenarios you've highlighted, as the foundation of your argument arises from jealously, this is clear when you contrast my success with your failure, being deluded into thinking you should have surpassed these trials yet cannot absolutely comprehend how someone else can claim victory on a consistent basis, instead I will address my playing ability. You know nothing about who I am or my history with this game, I am exceptionally talented not only at Doom, but other oldschool FPS along with videogames in general. I make speedruns and partake in Ironman out of passion for the game, it is a personal challenge in testing my playing ability to overcome arduous odds, I play for fun, it's about me vs the game and I hold no strong competitive urge or desire to be known as the best, reputation and status are not important to me but having fun is essential. Are you serious when you can't believe someone can beat an Ironman consistently? It's just playing the game without saving or loading, do you not have a fundamental understanding of the core gameplay and how to the play game correctly? Am I the only one who can play aggressively, with an intuitive and innate ability to bend the game to their will and not panic when in a dire situation, but with tactical genius aware of my surroundings and dexterous reflexes can act in the heat of battle and overcome arduous odds? When you highlight cases of RNG, I honestly don't think about it that deeply, I'm confident in what I'm doing, I'll make a risky move and hold strong with faith. I laugh at your baseless accusations of slowdown in reference to Stardate, I'm sure other skilled players such as Mrzzul and Nevanos could playthrough Stardate casually withour prior practice or saving and get just as far. Also bear in mind that I have died in several Ironmans before, do you honestly think their was demo manipulation there? You also demonstrate your ignorance very clearly when you admit you haven't watched my Ironman demos in full, and by watching I do mean actually studying them and assessing each scenario, bearing in mind my experience and ability at Doom which is extradonary, not skipping to a random moment and making up fabrications based on your own failures thinking oh it's impossible, their is no way any player could accomplish that. I do make mistakes, sometimes crucial ones, this is also reflected if you studied my speedruns which are far from perfect and have flaws such as missing shots, awkward movement and poor dodging, however a key skill I have is not panicing when low on health or when the circumstance is dire. Well guess what, I'm one of a kind, no one can play the game like me, every talented player and speedrunner has their own strengths and weaknesses that make them stand out. I am deluded when you suggest someone must have prior knowledge to stand a chance of victory at Ironman. Well look at Demon of the Well, he's not a speedrunner but is known for making FDAs both blind and familiar, he has an exceptional ability at conquering maps on his first attempt, the most prominent example I can think of is rdwpa's MuMe.wad. Does that mean he cheats? Certainly not, he's a talented player who obviously has a high level of playing ability. You also have j4rio and 0xfooba who have accomplished amazing demos that haven't been set before, with the former tysons that should be impossible and the latter UV-Maxes on some the hardest maps devised and speedrun movies of Sunlust. So why would you think my speedruns are cheated, when their are fellow speedrunners who have demonstrated extraordinary playing ability, do not stream and have surpassed my demos? As I certainly have never accussed anyone else of cheating, but respect their accomplishment and admire their tenacity at conquering very hard maps and goals. I have not shown jealously or malice towards fellow speedrunners who have surpassed my demos but silently congratulate and admire their accomplishment, in some cases publicly such as when Ancalagon went back and re-ran Combat Shock in response to when I beat his old runs. I do not look at speedrunning with a competitive eye, thinking I must have the record and surpass my competitor, instead my view is a cooperative one, it's us speedrunners against the game, building on one another's ideas and talent when a new record is set, complementing each other's unique strengths and weaknesses. My question would be why are you accusing and targetting me specifically? I can see from the depths of your arrogance, you believe with absolute certainty you are correct and I must be a cheater with any form of rebuttal being null and void. Well let me state clearly I have nothing to gain, why would I cheat at Ironman when I have pubically stated previously I do not care about winning or if a fellow player surpasses me, this is just fun to me. For speedruns, what would be the purpose in cheating as it's a personal challenge to me, I want to demonstrate to myself I've got the skill and talent to conquer very hard maps, it's about me against the game and I don't feel jealously at a fellow speedrunner who has beaten my record. I make speedruns out of passion and love for the game and not for admiration or self flattery, as long as Andy accepts the demo for DSDA that's all I care about. I am not going to stream as I do not care for an audience and am not influenced by the accusations of an envious stranger. I only streamed briefly for a short time in the past out of curiosity, but it does not interest me nor do I feel passion for it. I haven't watched Twitch in over a year, I was drawn to it in my spare time during the short period prior to my first full time job after finishing my studies. My life has changed a lot in the past two years and their are far more important aspects in life which draw my attention, I have little free time as well. Also you must be very self-conscious if you honestly think one has to stream their demo to demonstrate they aren't cheating, that just indicates your disrespect and distrust towards other players with exceptional playing ability, you'll never be a talented survivalist like me :) Let me make it clear I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks of me, when I am passionate about a subject I will speak my mind truthfully even if it means being brash at times, both online and in real life, I won't be intimidated by anyone and will confront them with assertion and confidence. I'm here for fun, making speedruns and commenting on subjects once in a while which capture my eye. Thank you for revealing your true colors, seething with jealously and enveloped by arrogance, you've lost what respect I had for you. If you've come to your senses you will offer an apology, take a good luck in the mirror before you make such a disgusting accusation against a fellow Doom player, who has not caused strife and discord but shows humility and respect with a care free attitude, or will you continue this charade and repeat history, replicating the case of Okuplok? If you do continue to accuse, it will be solely for my amusement as I will not take you seriously and will likely ignore you. Choose wisely. - BlooditeKrypto
Okay, he cheated and that's bad, but what's even worse is the fact that he tried to avoid all evidence and allegations with more lies and excuses. Let's not forget he used and still uses his followers as a shield. Yeah, the guy might have good content but- _That says a lot about him…_
Tbh I don't think his content could be seen as good- at all. If we're talking about good, let's look back at Popularmmos, captainsparklez, and stampy. 😔👋
In this video. I try to speed run mincraft (modified) with the whole speedrun community trying to kill me. Will I kill the ender dragon or will I die to the community. Let's find out.
In my opinion, if dream wants to modify the game to his benefit for better content, thats completly 100% fine. If he tries to pass it off as a legitimate speedrun, it isnt fine.
Yeah exactly. Its so disrespectful to the other speedrunners who are grinding away for these times legit. Completely destroys the sanctity of the competition. I think everyone at some point has gone into creative mode and given themselves an inventory full of diamonds than switched back to survival. But it's so insulting to do that and say it's legit because it shows he thinks his fans are too stupid to know better.
@@Tael98 this vid is from back when Dream was being accused of cheating... Recently, Dream came out with a document explaing how he accidently cheated. The OP above is referencing the fact that this video had 7k dislikes (which were all probably Dream stans, aka children) Honestly, the best part of this controversy had to be the Dream stans trying to explain it all. Getting mad for saying that Dream cheated. Getting mad for bringing evidence into the fold. Getting mad at people criticizing Dream for using such a long time before coming out with the truth. Defending Dream because he was so 'brave' for coming out with the truth. It's laughable. so fucking funny.
The argument of "why would a good player cheat?" has always been a silly one. Sure, a good, even a fantastic player can do extremely good runs, but when we're talking about world records and the best in the world, extremely good isn't enough. Sure, competitively, a very good runner can easily beat almost almost any random person, but they aren't competing against one person, they're competing against the total of everyone. It's even worse in RNG based games, since even if something is one in a billion, well, if millions of people are playing the game and doing thousands of runs, chances are someone will get it... and it almost certainly won't be you, no matter how good at the game you are and how often you play. That's incredibly demoralizing, especially if you've devoted a ton of time and effort into a game. You want that effort to pay off, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards.
Karl has made a statement on top level runners being more suspect, because they'll have a better understanding of a game, and know how to slip past the mods with a cheated run.
Exactly. You know, everyone in eg the Toure de France, Olympics or whatever the fuck world class competition is damn fucking good to be able to compete in there. Yet there is scandal after scandal, because someone was again taking steroids or whatever the fuck else. And: those Athletes have a lot more to loose. Basically everything. So if Athletes cheat, altough they ARE good, nothing is preventing speedrunners to do the same.
extremely good players sometimes convince themselves they DESERVED better rng, they DESERVED to get that run, and excuse what they need to make it happen because 'I could have done it naturally if only X had happened'
I'm a mathematics teacher and when I read the paper by Dream's hired party something about it seemed off very quickly. At university I focused on Complex Analysis and left statistics behind after the first year - so I'm willing to cede any authority on the validity of the statistical modelling since I'm only familiar with the Binomial and Poisson distributions, and not the Bayesian system. However, the paper, by its own admission, serves to shine a light on the ONE in 100,000,000 probability rather than the original probability in the trillions, and then say this is within the realms of acceptable statistical likelihood. It read like a bad defense lawyer hired to argue for the guy caught holding the smoking pistol. Just on the first scan of the paper I saw a missing bracket in one of the lines of formulae - indicating that the paper was 1.) not self-checked and/or 2.) not peer-reviewed. Also I noticed a repeated type-setting error that I used to make when I first started writing mathematical papers using the program Latex (I suspect Latex was used here as well): Someone used to writing mathematical papers should either know or care to find out how to use the correct quotation marks. Using the ' " ' key in Latex only produces the 'end quote' and is consistently used in this paper which makes it look rushed / amateurish (by the way, to Dream's mystery mathematician: the open quote is ' `` ') . Someone whom Dream stated graduated from Harvard (was it? or Boston MIT? I forget) and stated that they were an astrostatistician would surely have taken the time and care to present a more professional document. In keeping with this theme, many of the footnotes were links to Wikipedia... If I had cited Wikipedia as my sources for mathematical theorems, proofs, and histories I would have been scolded heavily by my tutors at university. The whole paper, along with Dream's response video, seemed like a "smoke and mirrors" act to provide any deflection possible from the glaring and damning statistical data.
yeah, they didnt even bother to cite the sources in wikipedia. it was the wiki itself. also, latex is not a program, it is a language, but yes, Im also guilty of committing the quotes mistake.
That "astrostastistician from Harvard" was just a random anonymous dude from a shady website Dream hired to write the paper for him. Dream liked to claim that the mods were biased, but he forgot that funding bias is also a thing so even if his guy was real, the party that did it couldn't be counted as unaffiliated considering he paid them to write it (and even then, the paper itself claimed that Dream cheated but funnily enough he never even read it after the first few sentences so he didn't know)...
Dream admitted that he rushed the mathematician for releasing the paper as he was getting a lot of bad press and he wanted to respond as soon as possible.
@@ayushagarwal3365 I mean, it makes sense to rush the paper since the people that published the first one did it before even telling him that they were investigating. Seems like a dick move to do that tbh, he doesn't have time to do anything before the bad press starts. But even with a rushed paper, if the maths don't make sense, he's lying.
And now he admits it, months upon months later, while claiming that it was an accident with the mods he used to cheat to make his edited content. Absolute clown.
@@blackbomb9858 I don’t know the mod team or how they do things, but I think if someone came out and exposed another Minecraft speed runner we wouldn’t be arguing
@@blackbomb9858 nah itd just take longer. the team would eventually catch on that every submission made had massively inflated luck and it'd go from there. Granted it'd be harder to prove without a whole 24 hour segment to base it off of.
SnazzySitara yeah thats true but the way dream has handled it makes everyone doubt the mods research and he even is still making a response with the professional statistician
I think the biggest factor that people misunderstand,which you pointed out, is that the argument isn't "one of a kind luck never happens, this run is too lucky" because it was never about the final run, but the luck shown over ALL of the runs combined. It would be like getting one of a kind luck DOZENS OF TIMES in a row. Its just not feasible. If he only showed this kind of luck during this single run, and none of the others he did the same day, without ever stopping his stream, it would be more believable that it was just ridiculous luck. The consistency is what is suspicious, which is why dream's misleading statements look so bad for him. I loved this video, thanks so much for putting in the time to make it.
@@alanstevens8306 true, they cherry picked the streams where dream cheated and didn't include the streams where he didn't,thus making sure the conclusion will be unbiased. Mods being biased for math rawr.
"Players dont cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time faster" will be used in every cheat exposing video from now on as its the perfect explanation. E: (for RNG cheaters)
@@theAstarrr Plus, he was mostly referencing high level players, as his statement is more applicable to them rather than some random speedrunner who isn't very good.
Honestly that only applies to the top runners, like if we take all the RNG out like it becomes easier as well you no longer have to be consistently good so somebody how sucks like me would be able to get better times because my best result where the luck is me timing things right would now finish. Where with RNG the odds of such a result finishing rather then being a result of good understanding of the games mechanics is well questionable
It’ll be another one of those sayings like how on every god damn video covering a game delay. “ A rushed game is forever bad but a dela-“ We get it. The game got delayed and that usually is a good thing. That’s the 4th comment with the same quote. Do you have anything interesting or unique to say instead of quoting the first comment you saw that made you look like you are some master of game delays.
I don’t actually care about the cheating. I just hate the way Dream harassed the mod team for several weeks and I hate how Dream just straight up lied to and manipulated his fans. He even sort of vaguely admitted that he cheated on Twitter but he isn’t even going to talk about this anymore. He won’t even upload a public apology to stop this drama and stop his rabid stans from harassing people. I’ve lost all respect for him.
@Adcot lol I don't think so, see this is what's wrong, they call into question somebody's whole character when he may have just got frustrated with luck, like a normal person. I personally don't think dream cheated since I don't trust someone else's simulations, and I'm just saying, if this simulation was done trillions of times and still didn't get the same luck, then that's also not plausible, if its 1 in 7.5 trillion, then you try 10 trillion time, then you'll probably get it, the fact that after trillions of attempts and they still can't get his luck makes me think that it is false, since someone most likely would have gotten it in trillions of attempts.
As somebody with an education in statistics who's been fascinated by the finer details being debated like the application of the stopping rule, I think it's actually perfect how you leave that stuff out and cut straight to what's important. It truly doesn't matter at the end of the day whether the correct summary is "there's a 1 in 7.5 trillion chance that any of 1000 runners gets the same luck" or "there's a 1 in 100 million chance than any of 100,000 runners gets the same luck", the conclusion is obvious in either case. And of course, all arguments about the math leading to those numbers are irrelevant in the face of TRILLIONS of simulations that fail to replicate the barter/drop rates in Dream's streams. Fantastic work as always Karl, I hope this helps put the matter to rest once and for all.
1000% agreed. Got a math degree, and only followed the videos loosely. Saw a lot of word play happen, thought the argument against binomial distribution made sense. But yes, just simulate it and see what happens. More powerful than any math, haha
@@IRanOutOfPhrases It was beyond word play, Dream was making false claims. He paraphrased a lot of stuff from his analysis document and presented it as quotes. I'm genuinely disgusted by his behavior.
I wish he had said something like “hey guys I fucked up. I used the mod for manhunt/practicing and didn’t realize it was still on.” Some people would still not believe it but at least he’d have some deniability without defying the odds.
If he do this worst case scenario is he will be banned from speedruinning, but at least he won't lose many of his subs (Since his main content is manhunt and not speedrunning)
Absolutely disgusted at Dream's behaviour. Don't like too much RNG in your speedruns? Play an older version then. There's nothing wrong with sticking to the 1.15 category if you find that the Nether Update has taken the fun away. Isn't fun what it's all about, after all? But no, Dream thought there was no pride in dropping out of the most popular category, so he resorted to being a lying cheat instead. What a joke.
I know a lot of people already said it but i belly laughed when i checked it, Dream blacklisted the wording "karl jobst" in his comments, that is so toxic Also im saying this is toxic because karl has been one of the most respectful people that have ever touched this topic
He’s also banning people on his subreddit who even mention the allegations. If you’re gonna defend yourself about your cheating then don’t ban people who make jokes about your allegations
@@lcdignited I mean hes probably done with it and has moved on, I know a lot of TH-camrs who will ban someone for bringing up past stuff they don't wanna talk about anymore, and honestly its fine, he gave his last argument, he should be allowed to be done
@@kdance9594 yeah, no. None of that changes the fact that he’s definitely a cheater, his credibility and likability is less than nothing. This video was where I realized Dream was also the clickbaity “SPEEDRUNNER VS HUNTER!” guy, which just gave me even more reason to hate him.
Ah, I see. So for this whole time I’ve been misunderstanding the accusation. I thought that they accused him because he got lucky just ONCE, on one singular speed run, but in reality it was because he was getting lucky on a regular basis, on multiple runs.
Same. I will admit, I don't care too much about the speedrun side of things, as I just watch stuff on TH-cam to watch stuff on TH-cam. But hearing about this, it also seemed to be painted as ONE run. Knowing it was MANY that were looked at makes it a lot more damning.
I am a dream fan, I enjoy his videos but I'm not a Stan and I will never be for anyone (I hope) and I thought the same, and I was really unsure if he did cheat or not cuz I thought it was just once and when you do one in many experiences, you can get luck sometimes. But now that I've seen this comment I now can understand that he definitely cheated and it's so sad because I like his videos a lot he is that youtuber that you watch and you laugh so hard and I'm so sad to hear about it. At least I still got Tommy and tubbo and others to enjoy, but I will enjoy dream's content, I'm just not gonna give so much attention and I was not giving either because there is so many things to watch on TH-cam and other social medias lol
@@envymyash Lie detector tests just don't work, they barely accurately diagnose something as a lie less than 20% of the time. All they test for is symptoms of lying, like elevated heartbeat, if you can just remain calm and not get nervous or excited, even saying something obviously false, the test will say you didn't lie.
@@garlic7763 Just checked. He responded to the claims made against him and his speedrun, and tried to debunk certain aspects. That's his perspective, so he hasn't proved anything. He can claim he didn't cheat, but that doesn't mean he didn't. Put it this way (a hypothetical scenario): Dream is accused of murder. He's the only one at the scene of the crime, and somehow the only evidence to prove he's innocent disappeared into thin air. He should be the prime suspect, right? So he's sitting in court, and the jury is filled with speedrun moderators. It reaches a stalemate because some of them say others were biased against him, so he's sent back to prison to wait another day. Until he's acquitted, he's seen as guilty. End of story.
@@garlic7763 If you actually watched the video instead of just defending him without even hearing the other side out, you would know that Karl already talked about that video here and it was, in fact, mostly wrong.
Just a quick mention: some people are claiming that improbable and impossible are not the same thing. While this is technically true there are limits to how improbable something can be before it encroaches on and becomes indistinguishable from impossible. A classic example in physics is this: if you were to push against a wall for a long amount of time, its "possible" that all the atoms that make up your body can all at once quantum tunnel to the other side of the wall allowing you to phase through it. The problem is that this event is so incredibly astronomically unlikely that the timescale it would take for the possibility to reasonably occur is much longer than the lifespan of the universe. the last proton would decay and the last black hole would evaporate long before this ever had a actual possibility of really happening, therefore making it by all practical means impossible. Dreams luck isn't technically impossible, its just that a one in 20 sextillion odds (or 1/20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) is so ridiculously improbable that even trillions of computational simulations have yet to *even come close to* replicating the results. Its not a matter of skill, its a question of pure statistical dice rolls. for context: there are roughly 7-11 billion people who have ever lived throughout human history. theoretically, if you gave them all a computer loaded with minecraft and asked every single person to replicate dreams rng, spending the entirety of their natural life playing minecraft until they keel over (lets assume average lifespan is 100 years), its still almost certain nobody could do it. So either he is the luckiest person *ever to live* or he cheated. which is more likely? Edit: Apparently he finally admitted to it 5 months later, math wins again baby!
I'd be careful with calling him a legend. From what I learned today, one legend that was also involved in the speedrunning community, made videos and tried to fight against a speedrunner who cheated has fallen... :'(
@@LordDragox412 yeah, I heard about that to. The death of Apollo Legend is very upsetting to many people in the speed running community and he will be missed greatly.
The fact that he tried to take the moral high ground by dropping the whole subject is so annoying, especially given that it worked and he's still speedrunning mc to this day. Unfortunate that all his fans are 8 year old and will just believe him over actual evidence. The man straight up abuses the fact that his fans are literal children
@@i_Soar Shame nobody else who ever got caught cheating got that same opportunity. For anyone else it would've been a straight ban, that's it. Pisses me off that he gets this special treatment just because he's big
@@obamaorb7426 The double standard of most fans is the worst part of the whole sorry ordeal. Any other runner would lose their popularity instantly, but dream is able to hide behind his fanbase
Karl is pretty much the only person I believe when it comes down to cheating, because he has been doing this probably for years and has studied many other cases of cheating in plenty of games. Cheating ruins the game for everyone, please do not cheat because it doesn't make you a better person or player, but anyways, Happy New Year's Eve.
Karl has been speedrunning for decades, and it shows. He really is incredibly insightful on the topic of cheating and catching cheaters. He isn't the only person I would believe in this regard, but he'd probably be the hardest to disagree with.
I only believe my own eyes, even Karl can be wrong. But in this case he is correct, the math just doesn't add up in anyway that would make Dream look like anything less than a cheater or a literal God of luck and since I've seen him get unlucky it isn't the latter.
@@scavenger6576 The thing is, people who's arguing that, "he just could've been lucky!" needs to understand that luck or chance are just a numbers by the end of the day. If you run a simulation long enough you should be able to achieve the "luck" at some point. It's just math, plain & simple. Also, you can't compare code with real life. Codes have hundreds of thousand times more restriction than real life. In conclusion, that ain't no luck, he do be cheatin' tho!
@@bengtbengt3850 Hey hun I made this comment before Karl released his updated video, which I did watch multiple times, but thanks for the recommendation
Dream's response is basically that one scene in Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd is told his chances with the girl are one in a million. 'So you're telling me there's a chance?'
LOL, something can happen or something can't happen. There is no middle ground. Even in simple game like Can't Stop one can see how lucky people can be.
"Most speedrun cheaters aren't doing it to get a faster time. They're doing it to get a time, faster." This one hit hard. I've heard too many times from genuinely skilled cheater "I thought to myself 'I know I could get this time legit, if I just got the right rng. So what's the harm in making it so I get that rng now?" It's one thing to ban someone who was clearly presenting a TAS as a legit run, or to ban someone who spliced multiple WR-pace runs together. But banning someone who's genuinely skilled at the game is a lot more sad.
I get your point, however someone cheats once, they can not be trusted again Edit: they can if their runs aren’t nearly as good after that person stops cheating
A lot of people are indescriminately hating on dream and similar cheaters, but honestly it feels like a question that, if discussed earlier in the speedrun community, could have had an entirely different answer. Its not so outlandish of an idea to make runs mucb more skill based by manually eliminating heavy RNG factors. Frankly, knowing that a certain time is possible and just relies on the game giving you the right luck is just painful
@@ciarangale4738 thank you. Finally someone that i agree with. I have always hated the luck based part of speed running. We will never know who the best is until we remove the luck portion
@@ciarangale4738 so your saying cheating is fine because it’s changing odds of something happening? because of what you said, that’s what it’s seems you are implying
I've seen people saying it's in the document dream provided, it's a harvard graduate working at a company. The company is fairly recent which people found suspicious
Lol since when are astrophysics and videogame probability the same thing? Even if that astrophysicist is a highly professional one, wouldn't it make more sense to hire eg a professional statistician/programmer or something?!
tbh idc about fake speedrunning, look at other dream's content (Minecraft, but ... ), it's very enjoyable to watch, even with his team like george etc. That's why his subs increase so fast.
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 I don't know why people don't understand they better than average people not noobs who literally don't even know how craft
@@arandominternetuser4507 It means that the speedrunner knows that he can get a faster time if they would have better luck. So they cheat to get rid of the rng aspect.
@@arandominternetuser4507 I think it means that speedrunners cheat not necessarily to get better time, but to get that time earlier in their careers and skip the grind, since they know they had the skill to eventually reach said record someday.
To any dream stans reading this, 1 in 20 sextillion is an astronomically low likelihood, here's an example. Load up a fresh new Minecraft world and try to guess the seed first try. The chances of that are 1 in 18 quintillion which is almost 1 thousand times less than 20 sextillion
The man once said he didn’t tell his fans to chill out because he thought it would make things worse. His fans harassed and sent death threats to the speedrun mods. Truly flawless logic.
You only know of the abyss, nare have you seen it beyond the average mortal. Karl resides in it, not blinded, nor is he reliant on sight as are those closer to our glorious and merciless star.
I wouldn't say Karl is the definitive authority on it, just one that we know of that does his best to break it down for us given the complexities speed running can entail. With that in mind I don't really know anyone else that does it in that way.
I wouldn't mind someone cheating if A) admitted it B) sincerely apologized for doing it Bonus: they meme and joke about it And he did neither of those 2 EVEN AFTER ADMITTING IT. What a fucking guy ain't he? 🤡
It was honestly a non-apology. He didn't apologise for anything, he didn't apologise or acknowledge the threats his fans sent to the speedrun mods and anyone else reporting on it. He didn't even take blame for any of it, and then after all he said, he deleted the pastebin and tweet about it.
@@rocketlanterns That's just not true lol. Did you read the second apology addressed specifically to the mods and the speedrunning community? And he didn't delete the pastebin either (it's impossible to delete a post as a guest), it just got taken down because it got mass reported.
its not even the fact that he cheated, its the fact that he cheated, did all this bullshit when he knew he was lying through his teeth, and when he finally was confirmed a cheater he's like "at the end of the day i respect their decision" like ??? i thought u were so confident that u werent cheating?
@@mainsera4407 I'd do that if it was a world record run, but it was a 15th place run or something, at that point I would happily throw it away so I don't end up in any stupid drama over it.
@@bananaisgood3743 you didn't even listen to the video, goddamn. He was on world record pace by a significant margin until he got unlucky with ender eyes in the portal. Who fucking cares what place he was in? If he cheated, he cheated and it should be taken down, regardless of where it falls on the leaderboard.
Just take a look at this video th-cam.com/video/YyEvlmBmjjc/w-d-xo.html . It's an interview made with dream and he is probably one of the best liars I've seen, but the stats are so much against him that there's no way he's legit. Just goes to show how manipulative some people can actually be.
The video is for entertainment purposes only. Please keep conversation civil and respectable. I hope you have a great New Years.
Ok
you too!
:)
You too! :D
You too!
I hope Dream stans won't come here.
Edit: people, after reading some replies I can see that many of you use "stan" instead of "superfan"
Stan: (noun) an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity.
Fan + stalker = stan
Superfan: a very or extremely devoted fan.
"Players don't cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time faster"
I wanna put that on a fuckin medal and send that to you, that's such a good quote.
You could say they're speedrunning speedrunning
@@Brst4410 they're trying to speedrun how fast they can end their careers
Right my fucking brain blew right out the back of my fucking head!
@@edmirneziri3877 I wasn't expecting this
That truly is one of the best things I have heard in quite some time. Good one, Karl!
10:31 “1 in 177”
Oh that’s not that bad
“Billion”
Oh
Even if we get the entire world population(7.837.225.230 last I checked) + half ot this number (to account for "unnacounted" individuals) and apply the chances of this happening, you would have it happen less than 0.07% of the time...
lol i was like "huh that text is a little off center... oh wait it wasnt loaded fully" xD
It's practically equivalent to producing a 3hour long symphony, by mashing your keyboard for a while. He cheated.
@@AnoNymous-dh2sv Mozart Requiem
@@tokidensetsu the global population is an estimate and is supposed to take into account people not counted in censuses.
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time, faster.”
Damn another priceless quote for the speedrun community. much respect
Had me dying reading that lol
Took me a minute to understand that tbh.
So, the quotes basically “Not cheating for a faster time in the run, its cheating to raise the chances of a decent time in a run
@@Damascene_ that's not exaaactly what it means, but it's close. The better at speedrunning you get, the more you're competing with world record, the more good RNG matters. It's not that having good rng increases the chances you get a decent time, it's that bad, or even moderate RNG kills your run straight up. You don't get a bad time, you run just ends. You don't get a time at all. The wind waker any% speedrun was asscheeks for a long time (until a trick was discovered a few years ago that isn't rng), where at the very very end of a 2 hour run, there was an extremely RNG dependent trick you had to do (zombie fairy hover) and if you were competing for world record, if you missed it enough times, well tough luck you just wasted 2 hours try again buckoooo. Your run could be complete trash but if you got it first try you suddenly had 30 mins under your PB.
Speedrunners: Respekt
@@TheBaldingPied Oh. Thanks for clarifying
Dream’s Fans: He’s already a good player! He has no reason to cheat!
Speedrunning Community: Ya’ll must be new here
@Bruh Meme dream wasnt even a good speedrunner, having no wr
@Jupiter Probably cheated then too, would have been easier to do so in that run actually
@@AcolyteOfLucifer i wouldn't assume he cheated in all of his runs since it is clear that he is skilled at the game. But this definitely will put all of his previous and future 1.6+ runs into question
@Jupiter dream is a gopd speedrunner, but a lot of speedrunning is dependant on luck. Dream had bad luck, and resorted to cheating and lying.
@@alex2005z He literally hold multiple World Records for the other categories
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time, faster.” Is a very good way of putting it
Nice pfp
When I'm playing single-player games (in a non-competitive fashion), this is the reason I use console commands or cheats in games most of the time. I just want to skip grinds and get back to enjoying the game.
@@MisterJackTheAttack This so much.
what’s the difference
@@novaueclipse It means they will eventually reach the fastest time. It's just they'll need to play lots and lots to get a *Lucky* break to have a chance at getting fastest time.
Let's say you're driving home, you'll eventually reach your home right? Sometimes real fast and some other times not so fast, because Traffic jams, red lights, etc exists
Now let's say you "Manipulate" the Traffic light to show more green on your Lane, or you can somehow direct the traffic too. Do you see where I'm getting at?
Where other drivers have to drive over and over again to get that perfect "Lucky" break where the Lights are green and there's no traffic
a Cheater can simply turn the tides favouring himself
The very first thing that bothered me about Dreams "statement" was that he apprently hired a world famous scientist that does astro statistics but didn't even bother to mention his name...
It's because Dream is a famous scientist, why else wouldn't he show his face?
If it was actually real, I can understand wanting to remain anonymous tbh. Your a very well regarded astrophysicist and then you start writing papers on a youtubers Minecraft speed run drama. Not a very good look lol.
@@TheAnimationStationTAS he was the one that got the Apollo rocket to the moon, he simply changed the gravitational force of the earth in the code, which meant it was easier for the rocket to get to space
Just commented same thing rofl. And it was going to be "published either way" my ass
@@_ikako_ I thought he was the one who stopped world hunger by increasing the drop rate on sheep.
i love how he explains it as if the viewer knows absolutely nothing about the game, allowing for literally anyone to follow through
they can not know about speedrun, i didnt know about newer versions of minecraft
I didn't know most of this
Since the netherupdate is VERY new
I've known speedrunning was a thing for a long time, but I never knew the ins and outs until just recently. Karl's videos have been pretty educational since he doesn't assume everybody knows how it works.
Oh hey sad cube boi
Yup, i had no idea what it was till now.
Fun fact: MinecrAvenger (the guy who noticed Dream's luck) was also caught cheating pretty much every single one of his run by ironically changing the luck of his runs.
Takes one to know one, I guess.
He knows his shit.
Ah the classic projection
@@jackthehacker05loll😂
Well he knew that it was fake because he faked speedruns the same way
Very balanced and interesting analysis on the situation
Oh dang it’s a random verified person I actually know
edit: gottem I don’t care about likes
is nice
SB737 is an absolute legend confirmed
Hi sb :D
Hello
This is a “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” moment
agreed
Yea
It's just that... Well..
or better "not surprised, still disappointed"
@@tikket10 Same man
This aged like a FINE WINE, love it
Agreed
*Now* the comment section is a joy to read
Right?!
Did something else happen???
@@jaydensydes3478 Oh, you missed it? Yesterday Dream admitted to cheating. Well, he claimed he "accidentally" had the cheat on. But what's important is, *he did it*.
Considering how easy it is to modify the loot tables I'm surprised the minecraft speed running community doesn't have better technical checks / verification / proofs required for runs.
True, I reckon this whole situation will bring a rise to that
Some files are now required for top runs, but there are still ways to cheat that are basically undetectable. Fortunately, the way the meta has shifted recently has put much more emphasis on the seed you get rather than the rng you get within it, and set seeds are much easier to detect than loot table manipulation.
Showing a hash of the files when the credits appear will help to mitigate this easily, I hope Mojang cooperates with the speedrunning community to implement such a feature
Speaking of which, how would you do that?
I kinda stopped messing around with commandblocks, one command machines all that stuff right before the first 1.13 snapshot.
I heard some myths here and there about datapacks, but I don‘t really know if it‘s just that
i actually find this very funny because dream was one of the first people complaining about this issue and gave a ton of (imo) good ideas as to how they could be more verifiable, yet here he is a couple months later cheating himself
My main gripe with this situation is that fans are saying that it doesnt matter if Dream cheated or not, which completely ruins the integrity of speed running as a whole.
Yeah
Like I play hollow knight and i did every boss and No hits (which I did)
And some dude walks and tells they did it as well but shows no evidence and is being jerk and try to hide he's cheating
Of course I am gonna get angry because doing every boss radiant (which means in the game as doing the boss no hit) it just so spite me for even trying to it honestly.
It very much matters and I would have been slapping any fan who said otherwise.
It actually does not matter if Dream cheated or not, to his community, knowing his content isn't focused on speedrunning and this drama will be buried by his popularity so I don't get why people still argue against the evidence, math, and simulations that he cheated. What makes this issue so wrong is that after all of this, if Dream won't admit his run was tampered it's the integrity of the speedrunning community that is ruined. If a person can get away with cheating like that, others will think it's okay too. I am actually a fan of his content but I stayed updated because of the math lol. I never even thought that simulations can be ran from the data given, the more I know now.
Dream did a video on his second channel proving his innocence
@@deathy2885 Hahahahaha Oh no bruh karp watch that tooo and btw it got debunked also simulations
Honestly, huge respect to the Minecraft speedrunning mod team. The huge effort put forth that was above and beyond what was required of them in order to keep the community clean.
Shut up 😁
@@valerienotfound3898 you shut up he just stated the truth
@@valerienotfound3898 found the dream stan
ah after they yelled at each other to finish faster, duh
@@valerienotfound3898 BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHSHSHAHAHAG im legit crying right now at your comments in this channel, get off here dream Stan, he cheated that's it, your God cheated and is no longer a God.
Thanks to you my stomach hurts from how much I laughed at you lmaooo
Dream Stans on their way to tell him it's no big deal after threatening a moderator's family.
For real
bro it was an ACCIDENT jeez, cut the guy some slack! I mean come on, haven't we all got caught red handed accidentally cheating before, ya know??
@@mud5377 some idiots are going to take this comment seriously lol
Wait, he actually _threatened_ the moderators?!
@@josiahball7799 Not that I know of, just his stans, though he still calls them clout chasers despite them being correct on the game being modified.
There were only two decent ways of handling this from the get-go: Either admit "Yeah, I cheated because I was frustrated with how ridiculously RNG-dependent this category is. Sorry, I won't do it again," or simply say "I know my luck was really insane. I didn't cheat, but I understand the moderators' conclusion and accept that they cannot verify my run." Instead, he called the mods "biased" for even investigating him while not addressing the actual reason they gave for doing so, acted as though his submitted run not being a WR time magically made it more legitimate, and even went as far as to ban people from his subreddit that accused him of cheating. Even on the virtually impossibly small chance he didn't cheat, the way he handled the situation was incredibly immature, and quite frankly, suspect at best.
He already did the second option you mentioned.
@@xnadulxnadul7741 Yeah, too little too late. The issue was that instead of handling that way from the very beginning, he was constantly calling the mods' credibility into question, harassed them for removing his run, and indirectly encouraged his fanbase to harass them as a result. And in the end, the closest he could come to "I understand their decision" was basically "At this point I don't really care if the run is verified anymore, but here's why they're wrong and how far off their calculations were," while not even addressing the fact that he had his anonymous professional add in 5 additional streams from 2 months prior in a clear attempt to skew the data *after* complaining they didn't do enough to adjust for stoppage. His response video was filled with condescension towards the mods as well, basically saying "Well I know these guys are young and not exactly professionals" to attack their credibility instead of presenting any actual errors in their calculations. He also made it sound as though they were biasing the data *against* him when in reality all he was proving was that maybe they didn't bias it in his favor *as much as they possibly could have.* No matter how calm about the situation he is now, his response as a whole was a far cry from just saying "Yeah, I understand," and was still disingenuous at best. No matter how much better he does now and in the future, that doesn't mean he didn't handle it poorly for weeks on end.
I do agree that he handled it immaturely, and that he absolutely should be professional given his following, that's one of the responsibilities of a celebrity of any kind, due to their influence, though please do remember that he's only human and probably has a lot of stress on his shoulders.
Either he is innocent, in which case him getting angry is very understandable, as he'd been publicly, falsely accused and couldn't really do anything to stop his reputation from taking a permanent blow, especially after talking to the mods to have a setup to prevent this exact thing from happening.
Or he's guilty, in which case he probably should've seen it coming, though I still believe he has good reason to get mad. The mods made it way more public than it really should've been, probably knowing that even something so minor would be a big blow to his reputation. To be clear I'm not saying the mods are the "villains" or anything, nobody is perfect.
And one last thing, he has a personal life and could be going through a bad time. The last thing anyone needs is either massive hate based on something wrong, or massive hate based on something insignificant. Please be nice, I know he's a grown man and this is the real world, etc. etc., but words are some of the most hurtful things in "the real world" and the shortcomings of others shouldn't be used as an excuse for your own shortcomings. (That wasn't to anyone in particular, btw, just anyone reading, and while I'm aware it isn't relevant to this conversation please consider it)
@@lagc5103 Not a genuine apology because it still involves lying.
Couldn't have worded it better, fam. I too am a fan of Dream since the hunters were only George and Sapnap. Yes, I enjoy his content, but I totally agree with everything you said. I no longer care if he cheated or not because all sides claim to be right and I don't want to dig any further into this anymore. It's true that he handled this issue kinda poorly, whether he did cheat or not. He kinda didn't come off as legitimate with his defense, although he did re-arrange his defense and I give him props for that, no matter how late it is. That said, I just wish for the best for this issue and I'll just neutrally sit by here until a proper conclusion is reached.
you know shit gets real when Karl calls you a cheater
no coming back from this one
Karls the idubbz of the speed running universe
Content Cop - Dream
Death
That shit hit the fan, sadly, not the stans
Dream has Fortune III on his gaming chair.
More like Fortune M
@@AED10 probaly dream use all fortune on 2020 for himself
Don'r forget the Fortune III LED strips
@@kingmystery8425 stolen joke from top comments on almost every video about the subject
He has fortune MCIII
Dream: If you disagree with me, argue with the math
Also Dream when someone argued with the math: *SHADOWBANNED SHADOWBANNED SHADOWBANNED*
Tiananmen square all over again
Also Dream when Stans Hunter duplicated themselves: *Imma private my response*
@@rayisi1502 hm? That event never happened. /s
@@ren5689 [REDACTED]
@@ren5689 Tone indicator makes the joke still funny /s
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time, faster.”
And this is why most speed runs, even world records, are pretty much always slower than the 'sum of best segments', getting one lucky segment or performing it flawlessly isn't too hard for the speedrunners, but getting 20+ segments absolutely perfectly even without RNG to take an absolute dump on your attempts... Yeah, that's tough as nails and will require loads and loads of time to achieve even after acquiring the skills to do so.
We should make a speed running category where drop rates are allowed to be altered. As I think that whould significant lower the ammount of cheating in speed runs
@@erikburzinski8248 nah
every world record is slower than sum of best bro lol
That's the thing, he could have not posted the run as legit and just said that he messed with the numbers to make the grind less long and boring, but he didn't, he pretended it was legit.
It would make sense that his manhunt videos or w/e had better odds, since no one wants to watch someone waste a bunch of time on RNG, those videos are made with entertainment in mind, so the legitimacy of them don't matter, but if you are going to claim that a run is legit, then that's different, that has intent to deceive and ruins your integrity.
@@erikburzinski8248 there’s already a fixed seed category of Minecraft speed runs for this purpose. In any event one of the points of speed running is that you need to be good enough AND consistent enough that when the good RNG comes by, you don’t choke. It’s part of managing your nerves, and it’s what makes the discipline so exciting.
"A blaze spawner, which spawns blazes."
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Underrated 😂😂
Yes, the floor is made of floor
Lava is hot
in his video he says that alot of his audience come to him cause he's an expert in speed running in general. And i doubt if he wasn't asked to, then it wouldn't have made this video. So I'm pretty sure he attracted an audience away from a game like minecraft so he gets discriptive for those people who know little about the game.
also, idk if you knew this but Dream actually means *7.7 billion*
@@oblivious3357 Did... did you miss the comment entirely?
"1 in 177"
Me: Oh that's not that much
"..billion"
Me: oh
Sextillion
@@beechboiii it was 20 sextillion
Before with bartering it was 177 billion
@@beechboiii ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@Zenki X haha SEXtillion 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@hydraulicfacechannel2147 1 in 20.000.000.000.000.000.000.000, guess dream just got lucky
Update: On May 31st 2021, Dream admitted to "accidentally" having mods installed that change the chances of RNG that helped him get the record.
"""""""Accidentally""""""
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""accidentally"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
@@syus8350 no
It wasn't a world record but the point still stands that his stans are stupid enough to believe that
Anything to avoid any and all personal responsibility.
I’ve never seen Minecraft before, only heard my grandkids talk about it. I didn’t know what speedrunning is. You explained everything so well that I know EXACTLY what the problem was, how it was investigated, what the various analyses were, and how you came to your conclusion. Very well done. Fantastic video!!
Reading this makes me so happy. Always love seeing people interact with something you'd expect they wouldn't understand because its far from their generation and yet they still understand and enjoy. Happy for you and now you're able to relate with your grandkids ever so slightly more on one of their video games.
@@chrispy2087 yes.i agree with you.
Tf is a boomer watching Minecraft TH-cam videos
@@jotham8654 Because he probably isn't actually an old person tbh
@@jotham8654 Does it matter? Minecraft isn’t just a kids game. Jeez, people forget that the elderly have lives, too, and that not all of them are computer-illiterate.
I just realized you're the guy from the Goldeneye speedrun 😂 great video man!
Me: sees verified person
Also me: *gives a like and comments*
Now I understand your tweet Dobbs in honestly with you on this
i thinking the same lol
Oh wtf it's dobbs
and dobbs, you make me come back to pokemon, thank you for all you good content for those all years
"It's not about getting a faster time, it's about getting a time, faster."
Brother.
Brother
“Brother I am hit here” badger
he spittin some straight fax doe
how it be
"BROOOOTHEEER!"
- Liquid Snake, Metal Gear Solid
That minecravenger guy seems legit, I bet he never ends up cheating
I know he has always done only legit runs it’e not like he spliced them or anything
Ya he would never cheat man
Actually takes one to know one
Oh him? No never!
I'm sure he won't
thought he was gonna say that he cheated on his goldeneye run lol
Me waiting for the statistics paper in two months proving that Jobst was cheating as well lmao
JUDAS!!!
Lol
that would've been the most based power move in history
That's what I also thought lmao
respect for not jumping on this as it happened for the easy clicks, but instead waiting it out - definetly a rare thing to do these days
That's my favourite thing about it
Agreed... people definetly went on the offensive too quickly on it all.
Yeah man, it's karl
Inb4 Dream: *"CLICKBAIT!"*
Exactly and because he's patiently waited he's made a well made researched video that deserves a lot of credit
My biggest issue with Dream’s statement was him stating that modding the game’s files was the *only* way he could cheat. He’s on PC, he could very easily run separate software to manipulate memory values in the Java VM.
Not saying he did, it was just really strange he spent so much time explaining the ways he didn’t cheat and denied there being any other way
I agree
It's not even that hard either. Modifying barter rates is as easy as enabling a datapack, which is a zip file containing 2 files in a few folders.
@@williewillus Or even easier, changing a number manually in a .json file in notepad
this is very hard and complicated. and i think he plays on mac which probably makes it more complicated. but i kinda see your point, there are always a lot of ways to cheat, especially in minecraft
there was some problems with the geosquare video about him modding, which concludes me to this: Dream didn't cheat, but the probability is so low that it will be taken out of the speedrun leaderboard
Always love that this video didn't end with a "Did dream cheat or not? Idk you guys decide" but with Karl not giving a shit and saying yes he cheated.
You're the man Karl
Came from Game Theory?
@@aaronking2020 lmao game theory ran with the dad that went to get milk when he was asked if dream cheated
@@aaronking2020 it'd be better because Game Theory's conclusion is that it doesn't matter if Dream cheated.
@@noxXxnocti Why do you think that the conclusion is good?
Matpat just wanted to get in on the drama without taking a side and calling speedrunning a "lottery"
Thanks for including that last little clip at the end with the nervous laughter. A lot of his reactions during the run could come off suspicious, especially having such good drop rates and him not reacting or appreciating it one bit also made it weird to me. Anyone who legitimately got a 1 in a trillion drop would probably scream “no way” or “let’s go”. I don’t watch him a lot but you could probably compare it with any of his reactions in videos. Sadly human behavior can never be solid fact. So I really appreciate the time and work you put into this, and being so neutral and respecting towards both sides.
First comment on a ticked account
Now begins my popular phase
yes cute, thanke
Hello yes, I adore your animations.
I love your tf2 animations
Dream was kinda sketchy from the beginning
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:33 What will be discussed
2:49 Sponsor
3:45 Who is Dream?
5:07 Release of Java Edition 1.16
8:36 Dream's livestreams
9:06 Ender pearl trade luck
10:57 Blaze rod drop luck
11:06 69% (nice)
11:58 Moderation investigation paper
12:18 Misleading probability
13:02 Dream's response video
14:19 Drop luck simulations
15:44 Why a good player might cheat
18:01 What if the ender pearl trade rate were modified?
19:18 Starting point of this video
20:20 Mathematically impossible
20:58 Dream's behavior before WR
22:35 Conclusion
23:52 Outro
ay thanks
Absolute legend
Thanks a ton!
legend
You forgot the 69% nice moment 😂😂 and sextillion also 😂
I'm more disappointed in the way he responded than him cheating. His responses were quite obviously manipulative and misleading on purpose. He knew most of his following were gullible kids or young teens, using his fans as a shield to push away the truth is rotten.
That's litterally his dream smp character in the Tommy exile arc
@@hureian6212 what else is going to happen? If you get accused of cheating with your reputation on stake, you are going to do?
@@hureian6212 The point of manipulation is that no one can tell it's manipulation except for people who aren't affected by it.
He manipulated his fanbase and close friends to defend him the entire time, and that's fucking disgusting.
did he cheat? probably. do i care? no. Did he tackle the issue well? Definitely not.
Having "dream-luck" is an insult now, not a compliment.
Lmao
Especially now that he finally admitted to cheating
Whenever I encounter some super rare thing I always say "more likely thatn dream's speedrun"
it was never a compliment lmao
To the point where "dream luck" is becoming a thing in meme speedrun category and i love it
Wow that quote.
"Players don't cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time, faster"
"wOw bRo, ThAt hIt dIfFeReNt."
@@no-qm4ug lmao dream stan
@@Austin-db6fl how does that make him a dream stan
@@Austin-db6fl AMIR was referring to the unoriginal comments about "it hits different now" which a lot of people uses for free likes, even tho they never understood about the original idea of the comment/video.
So instead of throwing out of your mouth "lol dream stan", try to *think* before commenting something.
Thanks and have fun.
@「STAND NAME」Kero Kero Bonito「STAND MASTER」Flamingo it doesn't try to justify anything, cheaters are still assholes. It just gives insight to their motivation.
Therapy: expensive.
Karl Jobst calling you an absolute legend: free.
E
@@TURPEG no
true😂😂
Wrong, its priceless
No it isn't free
Not enough credit is given to the moderators for their analysis. It was an incredible effort and is a huge credit to the integrity of speedrunning. The fact that their theoretical results are now aligning with large numerical simulations is confirmation of how well they did. Absolute legends.
Dream knows he can’t counter the math so he just uses deception to make the mods look inexperienced. In the original Geosquare video the mods wanted to get a third party but dream didn’t because “third parties are biased to the side that paid for them”. What does he go and do, hire a third party and claim that they are unbiased.
@@aamaruvi and not only that, he literally told the mods that they are "clout chasing".Dream is right over his head with fame where no-one outside of this community knows who he really is lmao.
@@GoogieBuiscut The mods made a rebuttal to his document.
Plus, I had any problems with his response myself, especailly how the website was made using Wix.
As far as I'm concerned, the simulations are by far the most reliable evidence that Dream cheated. The fact that the stats that the mods published apparently align with these simulations is very impressive.
Well we do know the mods are that who made the first document and the verified Reddit guy who made a debunking document to dreams respond. we know this people and the background from their public accounts, but the expert from Harvard the dream hired is anonymous he could be from Harvard or he could be a fan that’s in high school we don’t know his background beside what dream says and that’s not the most reliable in this problem. Dream needs to hire someone who is public and has a verified background to make a document to prove his innocences but until then with the current documents it looks to be dream is guilty of cheating
I really like how you actually came to a conclusion rather then just saying “Oh well in conclusion I don’t know it’s left up to interpretation and how you feel har har.” I’m so sick of analysis videos doing that to seem as safe as possible.
*ahem* game theory
@@valuehunter5544 ikr I like the dude but it's so fucking obvious he cheated, there was a comment here, saying if ten billion people all done the speedrun, not one of them would get dreams 'luck.'
@@crippledcow2235 Lucky dosent mean impossible.
@@Destro65 oh piss off it *is* impossible for one person in our lifetimes to do it.
@@Destro65 True, but, the odds if it happening are so astronomically ridiculous that to even consider it having actually happened is not only pointless, but stupid.
His tactic of initially claiming his score is not high enough on the leader board to be investigated is the exact same excuse Billy Mitchell gave when he was first accused of cheating as well. Interesting trend here.
This has more to do with how random seed speedruns work, I doubt he intentionally cheated 5th place instead of 1st, he just didn't get the right seed for nr. 1. There's just too much randomness in minecraft speedruns compared with GoldenEye or old arcade games, which have very linear and predictable speedruns.
@@KartonRealista2 yeah these drop chances in set seed 1.16 would probably be a guaranteed 1st for any of the top players in just a few runs. (Unless set seed is like an already complete portal or something I haven’t seen 1.16 set seed)
@karton realista
Maybe he did modify teh drop rates but other random elements were too unlucky for number 1. It is insanely optomized.
I only got 5th place in the olympics. Why even bother doing a drug test on me? Makes no sense bro.
- Dream
Yeah
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster timer, they cheat to get a time faster”
This is a hell of a quote.
Speed runners*
u do know those 2 things are different
@@bloxyyt I think he just quoted it because it's a good quote
ca someine explain this to me i really dont understand what this means.
"He's so good why would he need to cheat?"
*flashbacks to doom cheaters vid*
Lol that guy made a novel explaining why even thinking that he cheated was ultra dumb
billy mitchel and other guy todd rodger
i was thinking te same lmfaoooooo
@@stodgycone5849 bro i think i know who you're talking about, i have the entire copypasta of it too lmao
You humour me greatly with your arrogance and contempt, a flood of accusations born from the poison of envy and smite of disrespect. I feel both disappointment and flattery these thoughts would originate from another player who has demonstrated one of a kind talent and has accomplished the impossible, yet is apparently immune from judgement owing to their reputation, do not think your words hold more credibility just because of who you are, being more well known and what you have accomplished in breaking world records and setting ones never previously accomplished, such as with TNT and Plutonia Nightmare. With that being said I will divulge my thoughts on the serious accusations you have set forth.
I won't address the individual gameplay scenarios you've highlighted, as the foundation of your argument arises from jealously, this is clear when you contrast my success with your failure, being deluded into thinking you should have surpassed these trials yet cannot absolutely comprehend how someone else can claim victory on a consistent basis, instead I will address my playing ability. You know nothing about who I am or my history with this game, I am exceptionally talented not only at Doom, but other oldschool FPS along with videogames in general. I make speedruns and partake in Ironman out of passion for the game, it is a personal challenge in testing my playing ability to overcome arduous odds, I play for fun, it's about me vs the game and I hold no strong competitive urge or desire to be known as the best, reputation and status are not important to me but having fun is essential.
Are you serious when you can't believe someone can beat an Ironman consistently? It's just playing the game without saving or loading, do you not have a fundamental understanding of the core gameplay and how to the play game correctly? Am I the only one who can play aggressively, with an intuitive and innate ability to bend the game to their will and not panic when in a dire situation, but with tactical genius aware of my surroundings and dexterous reflexes can act in the heat of battle and overcome arduous odds? When you highlight cases of RNG, I honestly don't think about it that deeply, I'm confident in what I'm doing, I'll make a risky move and hold strong with faith. I laugh at your baseless accusations of slowdown in reference to Stardate, I'm sure other skilled players such as Mrzzul and Nevanos could playthrough Stardate casually withour prior practice or saving and get just as far. Also bear in mind that I have died in several Ironmans before, do you honestly think their was demo manipulation there?
You also demonstrate your ignorance very clearly when you admit you haven't watched my Ironman demos in full, and by watching I do mean actually studying them and assessing each scenario, bearing in mind my experience and ability at Doom which is extradonary, not skipping to a random moment and making up fabrications based on your own failures thinking oh it's impossible, their is no way any player could accomplish that. I do make mistakes, sometimes crucial ones, this is also reflected if you studied my speedruns which are far from perfect and have flaws such as missing shots, awkward movement and poor dodging, however a key skill I have is not panicing when low on health or when the circumstance is dire. Well guess what, I'm one of a kind, no one can play the game like me, every talented player and speedrunner has their own strengths and weaknesses that make them stand out.
I am deluded when you suggest someone must have prior knowledge to stand a chance of victory at Ironman. Well look at Demon of the Well, he's not a speedrunner but is known for making FDAs both blind and familiar, he has an exceptional ability at conquering maps on his first attempt, the most prominent example I can think of is rdwpa's MuMe.wad. Does that mean he cheats? Certainly not, he's a talented player who obviously has a high level of playing ability. You also have j4rio and 0xfooba who have accomplished amazing demos that haven't been set before, with the former tysons that should be impossible and the latter UV-Maxes on some the hardest maps devised and speedrun movies of Sunlust. So why would you think my speedruns are cheated, when their are fellow speedrunners who have demonstrated extraordinary playing ability, do not stream and have surpassed my demos? As I certainly have never accussed anyone else of cheating, but respect their accomplishment and admire their tenacity at conquering very hard maps and goals.
I have not shown jealously or malice towards fellow speedrunners who have surpassed my demos but silently congratulate and admire their accomplishment, in some cases publicly such as when Ancalagon went back and re-ran Combat Shock in response to when I beat his old runs. I do not look at speedrunning with a competitive eye, thinking I must have the record and surpass my competitor, instead my view is a cooperative one, it's us speedrunners against the game, building on one another's ideas and talent when a new record is set, complementing each other's unique strengths and weaknesses.
My question would be why are you accusing and targetting me specifically? I can see from the depths of your arrogance, you believe with absolute certainty you are correct and I must be a cheater with any form of rebuttal being null and void. Well let me state clearly I have nothing to gain, why would I cheat at Ironman when I have pubically stated previously I do not care about winning or if a fellow player surpasses me, this is just fun to me. For speedruns, what would be the purpose in cheating as it's a personal challenge to me, I want to demonstrate to myself I've got the skill and talent to conquer very hard maps, it's about me against the game and I don't feel jealously at a fellow speedrunner who has beaten my record. I make speedruns out of passion and love for the game and not for admiration or self flattery, as long as Andy accepts the demo for DSDA that's all I care about.
I am not going to stream as I do not care for an audience and am not influenced by the accusations of an envious stranger. I only streamed briefly for a short time in the past out of curiosity, but it does not interest me nor do I feel passion for it. I haven't watched Twitch in over a year, I was drawn to it in my spare time during the short period prior to my first full time job after finishing my studies. My life has changed a lot in the past two years and their are far more important aspects in life which draw my attention, I have little free time as well. Also you must be very self-conscious if you honestly think one has to stream their demo to demonstrate they aren't cheating, that just indicates your disrespect and distrust towards other players with exceptional playing ability, you'll never be a talented survivalist like me :)
Let me make it clear I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks of me, when I am passionate about a subject I will speak my mind truthfully even if it means being brash at times, both online and in real life, I won't be intimidated by anyone and will confront them with assertion and confidence. I'm here for fun, making speedruns and commenting on subjects once in a while which capture my eye.
Thank you for revealing your true colors, seething with jealously and enveloped by arrogance, you've lost what respect I had for you. If you've come to your senses you will offer an apology, take a good luck in the mirror before you make such a disgusting accusation against a fellow Doom player, who has not caused strife and discord but shows humility and respect with a care free attitude, or will you continue this charade and repeat history, replicating the case of Okuplok? If you do continue to accuse, it will be solely for my amusement as I will not take you seriously and will likely ignore you. Choose wisely.
- BlooditeKrypto
Okay, he cheated and that's bad, but what's even worse is the fact that he tried to avoid all evidence and allegations with more lies and excuses.
Let's not forget he used and still uses his followers as a shield.
Yeah, the guy might have good content but- _That says a lot about him…_
@Trump Pence ikr
Tbh I don't think his content could be seen as good- at all.
If we're talking about good, let's look back at Popularmmos, captainsparklez, and stampy. 😔👋
@@chihiroadored fax
@Philippine Empire Mapping OH YOU RIGHT!!! Dantdm hit the spot ngl
@Philippine Empire Mapping same 😔 those were the homies back in the day
So this is basically the Minecraft Speedrunner vs Mod Team FINALE
Minecraft Speedrunner vs Statisticians FINALE REMATCH REMATCH (again)
In this video. I try to speed run mincraft (modified) with the whole speedrun community trying to kill me. Will I kill the ender dragon or will I die to the community. Let's find out.
Also only a small percentage of the world is subscribed plz subscribe
@steve yakuza +r/statistics
Put speedrunner in quotes @Toby knecht
In my opinion, if dream wants to modify the game to his benefit for better content, thats completly 100% fine. If he tries to pass it off as a legitimate speedrun, it isnt fine.
Yeah exactly. Its so disrespectful to the other speedrunners who are grinding away for these times legit. Completely destroys the sanctity of the competition.
I think everyone at some point has gone into creative mode and given themselves an inventory full of diamonds than switched back to survival. But it's so insulting to do that and say it's legit because it shows he thinks his fans are too stupid to know better.
Agree. Hell, any minecraft video out there is scripted in some way or given items at some point while off cam. It's all about the content.
I never though about it that way. Thank you
@@thomasmathew13 u can watch his full unedited manhunt lmao
@@peytondooley2031 that does not mean it was not scripted
Karl: "trillions of simulations running every second and not one has come close to dreams luck"
Dream: "I respectfully disagree"
"respectfully" ironic
Respectful is not the word *I* would use...
@Apple TDS alert! TDS alert, everyone!
You could have went five seconds without mentioning orange man bad.
I guess you people really are NPCs
:)
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 this isnt even "orange man bad" he just said that dreams twitter responses were worded similar to trump tweets
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 Someone: Alludes to bad qualities of Trump.
NPC: Trump Derangement Syndrome. Orange man bad. NPC.
Those 7k dislikes should feel really stupid right now.
Nah, now "it was an accident and it's old news so let it go."
Did something happen? I just watched the video and I don't really follow the Minecraft scene
It is interesting tho lol
@@Tael98 this vid is from back when Dream was being accused of cheating...
Recently, Dream came out with a document explaing how he accidently cheated. The OP above is referencing the fact that this video had 7k dislikes (which were all probably Dream stans, aka children)
Honestly, the best part of this controversy had to be the Dream stans trying to explain it all. Getting mad for saying that Dream cheated. Getting mad for bringing evidence into the fold. Getting mad at people criticizing Dream for using such a long time before coming out with the truth. Defending Dream because he was so 'brave' for coming out with the truth.
It's laughable. so fucking funny.
@@Jorsk3n The stans have now moved on to „it’s only a stupid block game who cares. Also everybody cheats“. I know they’re just little kids but geez
@@Jorsk3n How does one "accidentally" cheat?
Next he's gonna be saying someone else modified his copy of Minecraft.
The argument of "why would a good player cheat?" has always been a silly one. Sure, a good, even a fantastic player can do extremely good runs, but when we're talking about world records and the best in the world, extremely good isn't enough. Sure, competitively, a very good runner can easily beat almost almost any random person, but they aren't competing against one person, they're competing against the total of everyone. It's even worse in RNG based games, since even if something is one in a billion, well, if millions of people are playing the game and doing thousands of runs, chances are someone will get it... and it almost certainly won't be you, no matter how good at the game you are and how often you play. That's incredibly demoralizing, especially if you've devoted a ton of time and effort into a game. You want that effort to pay off, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards.
Yea, if he just goes and admits he cheated, most of us would forgive him, he might lose some subs, but the drama would be over.
Karl has made a statement on top level runners being more suspect, because they'll have a better understanding of a game, and know how to slip past the mods with a cheated run.
Yeah, cheating is just an unfortunate side effect of human nature. We see top athletes in sports constabtly cheat. Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, etc
Exactly. You know, everyone in eg the Toure de France, Olympics or whatever the fuck world class competition is damn fucking good to be able to compete in there. Yet there is scandal after scandal, because someone was again taking steroids or whatever the fuck else.
And: those Athletes have a lot more to loose. Basically everything.
So if Athletes cheat, altough they ARE good, nothing is preventing speedrunners to do the same.
extremely good players sometimes convince themselves they DESERVED better rng, they DESERVED to get that run, and excuse what they need to make it happen because 'I could have done it naturally if only X had happened'
I'm a mathematics teacher and when I read the paper by Dream's hired party something about it seemed off very quickly. At university I focused on Complex Analysis and left statistics behind after the first year - so I'm willing to cede any authority on the validity of the statistical modelling since I'm only familiar with the Binomial and Poisson distributions, and not the Bayesian system. However, the paper, by its own admission, serves to shine a light on the ONE in 100,000,000 probability rather than the original probability in the trillions, and then say this is within the realms of acceptable statistical likelihood. It read like a bad defense lawyer hired to argue for the guy caught holding the smoking pistol.
Just on the first scan of the paper I saw a missing bracket in one of the lines of formulae - indicating that the paper was 1.) not self-checked and/or 2.) not peer-reviewed. Also I noticed a repeated type-setting error that I used to make when I first started writing mathematical papers using the program Latex (I suspect Latex was used here as well): Someone used to writing mathematical papers should either know or care to find out how to use the correct quotation marks. Using the ' " ' key in Latex only produces the 'end quote' and is consistently used in this paper which makes it look rushed / amateurish (by the way, to Dream's mystery mathematician: the open quote is ' `` ') . Someone whom Dream stated graduated from Harvard (was it? or Boston MIT? I forget) and stated that they were an astrostatistician would surely have taken the time and care to present a more professional document. In keeping with this theme, many of the footnotes were links to Wikipedia... If I had cited Wikipedia as my sources for mathematical theorems, proofs, and histories I would have been scolded heavily by my tutors at university.
The whole paper, along with Dream's response video, seemed like a "smoke and mirrors" act to provide any deflection possible from the glaring and damning statistical data.
yeah, they didnt even bother to cite the sources in wikipedia. it was the wiki itself. also, latex is not a program, it is a language, but yes, Im also guilty of committing the quotes mistake.
That "astrostastistician from Harvard" was just a random anonymous dude from a shady website Dream hired to write the paper for him. Dream liked to claim that the mods were biased, but he forgot that funding bias is also a thing so even if his guy was real, the party that did it couldn't be counted as unaffiliated considering he paid them to write it (and even then, the paper itself claimed that Dream cheated but funnily enough he never even read it after the first few sentences so he didn't know)...
This is so true lol
Dream admitted that he rushed the mathematician for releasing the paper as he was getting a lot of bad press and he wanted to respond as soon as possible.
@@ayushagarwal3365 I mean, it makes sense to rush the paper since the people that published the first one did it before even telling him that they were investigating. Seems like a dick move to do that tbh, he doesn't have time to do anything before the bad press starts.
But even with a rushed paper, if the maths don't make sense, he's lying.
I think the blazes and piglins were Dream stans
No I think RNGesus was the Stan himself
Man that should have more likes
underrated comment
Stolen.
Lol
And now he admits it, months upon months later, while claiming that it was an accident with the mods he used to cheat to make his edited content. Absolute clown.
@@crimsonstrykr oh I bet they’re scripted, even if it’s loosely.
Imagine being such a genius but also such an idiot at the same time. That's Dream
Dream 🤡🤡🤡🤡
And then he took the admittance down.
This fucking guy lmao
he didnt relize the modifiers, but I understand what your coming from. I hope he stops the speedrunning and sticks to his roots
Honestly, if this were anyone else but Dream, there would be no question about it. Anybody else would have been questioned and shut down immediately.
The speed run team wouldn't care neither to investigate and would have approved it
@@blackbomb9858 I don’t know the mod team or how they do things, but I think if someone came out and exposed another Minecraft speed runner we wouldn’t be arguing
@@blackbomb9858 nah itd just take longer. the team would eventually catch on that every submission made had massively inflated luck and it'd go from there.
Granted it'd be harder to prove without a whole 24 hour segment to base it off of.
@@blackbomb9858 LMAO THEY have REMOVED HUNDREDS of runs in the past LMAO
SnazzySitara yeah thats true but the way dream has handled it makes everyone doubt the mods research and he even is still making a response with the professional statistician
I think the biggest factor that people misunderstand,which you pointed out, is that the argument isn't "one of a kind luck never happens, this run is too lucky" because it was never about the final run, but the luck shown over ALL of the runs combined. It would be like getting one of a kind luck DOZENS OF TIMES in a row. Its just not feasible. If he only showed this kind of luck during this single run, and none of the others he did the same day, without ever stopping his stream, it would be more believable that it was just ridiculous luck. The consistency is what is suspicious, which is why dream's misleading statements look so bad for him.
I loved this video, thanks so much for putting in the time to make it.
Exactly, you can flub a one in a million here and there but not multiple times all bloody day lol.
Wrong, actually. They cherry picked the luckiest runs, which of course would look lucky, because they literally picked the lucky ones.
@@alanstevens8306 Even if they cherry picked, the simulations did not. The video said the mods math matched up with the simulations
@@alanstevens8306 they chose the continuous streamed runs in which he had already tampered with the game. That is not cherry picking
@@alanstevens8306 true, they cherry picked the streams where dream cheated and didn't include the streams where he didn't,thus making sure the conclusion will be unbiased. Mods being biased for math rawr.
"Players dont cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get a time faster" will be used in every cheat exposing video from now on as its the perfect explanation. E: (for RNG cheaters)
@@theAstarrr I am of course referring to cheating for rng, not cheating in general.
@@theAstarrr Plus, he was mostly referencing high level players, as his statement is more applicable to them rather than some random speedrunner who isn't very good.
OBJECTION!!!!!!!
Todd Rogers.
Honestly that only applies to the top runners, like if we take all the RNG out like it becomes easier as well you no longer have to be consistently good so somebody how sucks like me would be able to get better times because my best result where the luck is me timing things right would now finish.
Where with RNG the odds of such a result finishing rather then being a result of good understanding of the games mechanics is well questionable
It’ll be another one of those sayings like how on every god damn video covering a game delay. “ A rushed game is forever bad but a dela-“ We get it. The game got delayed and that usually is a good thing. That’s the 4th comment with the same quote. Do you have anything interesting or unique to say instead of quoting the first comment you saw that made you look like you are some master of game delays.
I don’t actually care about the cheating. I just hate the way Dream harassed the mod team for several weeks and I hate how Dream just straight up lied to and manipulated his fans. He even sort of vaguely admitted that he cheated on Twitter but he isn’t even going to talk about this anymore. He won’t even upload a public apology to stop this drama and stop his rabid stans from harassing people. I’ve lost all respect for him.
I remember you! Your name at least.
@Trump Pence good. It’s okay to enjoy his manhunts.
@Trump Pence I used to enjoy his manhunts a lot, but now I just don't, he has completely changed in my eyes
@Trump Pence I guess that its just repetitive content thats why i guess
Dream no cheat 😢🚶🏼♂️🧎🏻♂️
Sad part of this is that he was the one who proved that a guy was faking a minecraft speedrun (who curiously enough was named drem).
probably dream and drem become friends, that's the reason
Coincidence? *I think not.*
@@AxelMuga After dream made the comment exposing drem, he said no you.
th-cam.com/video/gkKU8lXAqPM/w-d-xo.html
@Adcot lol I don't think so, see this is what's wrong, they call into question somebody's whole character when he may have just got frustrated with luck, like a normal person. I personally don't think dream cheated since I don't trust someone else's simulations, and I'm just saying, if this simulation was done trillions of times and still didn't get the same luck, then that's also not plausible, if its 1 in 7.5 trillion, then you try 10 trillion time, then you'll probably get it, the fact that after trillions of attempts and they still can't get his luck makes me think that it is false, since someone most likely would have gotten it in trillions of attempts.
As somebody with an education in statistics who's been fascinated by the finer details being debated like the application of the stopping rule, I think it's actually perfect how you leave that stuff out and cut straight to what's important. It truly doesn't matter at the end of the day whether the correct summary is "there's a 1 in 7.5 trillion chance that any of 1000 runners gets the same luck" or "there's a 1 in 100 million chance than any of 100,000 runners gets the same luck", the conclusion is obvious in either case. And of course, all arguments about the math leading to those numbers are irrelevant in the face of TRILLIONS of simulations that fail to replicate the barter/drop rates in Dream's streams. Fantastic work as always Karl, I hope this helps put the matter to rest once and for all.
Exactly
Where are Dream's stans ?
Just nowhere to be seen, cause they are all highschool kids without a knowledge in mathematics (sorry i'm not english)
@@Dr_Telfort more like elementary
1000% agreed. Got a math degree, and only followed the videos loosely. Saw a lot of word play happen, thought the argument against binomial distribution made sense.
But yes, just simulate it and see what happens. More powerful than any math, haha
@@IRanOutOfPhrases It was beyond word play, Dream was making false claims. He paraphrased a lot of stuff from his analysis document and presented it as quotes. I'm genuinely disgusted by his behavior.
I wish he had said something like “hey guys I fucked up. I used the mod for manhunt/practicing and didn’t realize it was still on.” Some people would still not believe it but at least he’d have some deniability without defying the odds.
This was my immediate thought of an excuse, the fact he didn’t go this route is baffling.
If he said that there would have been no drama because everyone would have believed that and moved on
If he do this worst case scenario is he will be banned from speedruinning, but at least he won't lose many of his subs
(Since his main content is manhunt and not speedrunning)
this would have been fucking perfect actually
Yeah, that would be perfectly beliveable
Absolutely disgusted at Dream's behaviour. Don't like too much RNG in your speedruns? Play an older version then. There's nothing wrong with sticking to the 1.15 category if you find that the Nether Update has taken the fun away. Isn't fun what it's all about, after all?
But no, Dream thought there was no pride in dropping out of the most popular category, so he resorted to being a lying cheat instead. What a joke.
Here's a tip: his 1.15 runs were cheated. there's a reason he was the only person running them
He finally admitted to cheating yesterday, not that people who knew how to read or basic statistics thought anything else
@@raevemaeve4323 i wouldn't even say he admitted it, he shifted all the blame onto the mods of MineCraft lol
@@JackTheripper911 Well, yeah. He still wanted to save some face so he made some more excuses. At least nobody can deny he had mods active lol
@@raevemaeve4323 but people will say that he has done nothing worn sadly
I know a lot of people already said it but i belly laughed when i checked it, Dream blacklisted the wording "karl jobst" in his comments, that is so toxic
Also im saying this is toxic because karl has been one of the most respectful people that have ever touched this topic
Reminds me of those Twitch girls who can’t take criticism
@@KY-qx9ip yeah very much
He’s also banning people on his subreddit who even mention the allegations. If you’re gonna defend yourself about your cheating then don’t ban people who make jokes about your allegations
@@lcdignited I mean hes probably done with it and has moved on, I know a lot of TH-camrs who will ban someone for bringing up past stuff they don't wanna talk about anymore, and honestly its fine, he gave his last argument, he should be allowed to be done
@@kdance9594 yeah, no. None of that changes the fact that he’s definitely a cheater, his credibility and likability is less than nothing. This video was where I realized Dream was also the clickbaity “SPEEDRUNNER VS HUNTER!” guy, which just gave me even more reason to hate him.
Ah, I see. So for this whole time I’ve been misunderstanding the accusation. I thought that they accused him because he got lucky just ONCE, on one singular speed run, but in reality it was because he was getting lucky on a regular basis, on multiple runs.
Yep
Same. I will admit, I don't care too much about the speedrun side of things, as I just watch stuff on TH-cam to watch stuff on TH-cam. But hearing about this, it also seemed to be painted as ONE run. Knowing it was MANY that were looked at makes it a lot more damning.
I am a dream fan, I enjoy his videos but I'm not a Stan and I will never be for anyone (I hope) and I thought the same, and I was really unsure if he did cheat or not cuz I thought it was just once and when you do one in many experiences, you can get luck sometimes. But now that I've seen this comment I now can understand that he definitely cheated and it's so sad because I like his videos a lot he is that youtuber that you watch and you laugh so hard and I'm so sad to hear about it. At least I still got Tommy and tubbo and others to enjoy, but I will enjoy dream's content, I'm just not gonna give so much attention and I was not giving either because there is so many things to watch on TH-cam and other social medias lol
@@envymyash lmao
Fun fact: lie detectors dont even work.
(that is not a joke)
@@envymyash Lie detector tests just don't work, they barely accurately diagnose something as a lie less than 20% of the time. All they test for is symptoms of lying, like elevated heartbeat, if you can just remain calm and not get nervous or excited, even saying something obviously false, the test will say you didn't lie.
He didnt cheat, he just liked one the comments that says "Like this comment for 1000 years of good luck"
Damn we were all played!
All 1000 years of luck were used in those 6 streams.
@@garlic7763
Just checked. He responded to the claims made against him and his speedrun, and tried to debunk certain aspects. That's his perspective, so he hasn't proved anything. He can claim he didn't cheat, but that doesn't mean he didn't.
Put it this way (a hypothetical scenario): Dream is accused of murder. He's the only one at the scene of the crime, and somehow the only evidence to prove he's innocent disappeared into thin air. He should be the prime suspect, right? So he's sitting in court, and the jury is filled with speedrun moderators. It reaches a stalemate because some of them say others were biased against him, so he's sent back to prison to wait another day. Until he's acquitted, he's seen as guilty.
End of story.
@@garlic7763 If you actually watched the video instead of just defending him without even hearing the other side out, you would know that Karl already talked about that video here and it was, in fact, mostly wrong.
@@JameyMcQueen It's pretty much the same case as EA Games who gets into Lawsuit for gambling and they simply said "we didn't agree"
I just found a comment in the depths of the newest first and youll find it
"Im smart at math and Dream didn't cheat so shut up"
“I’m the top of my class in 2nd grade math”
“Yeah i am an expert in maths! I won the 3rd grade math competition!”
"i can do 12x12"
"I got a participation award"
Hey guys I know that 0 comes AFTER 1 (yes, after) so I know math and dream is obviously right!
Just a quick mention: some people are claiming that improbable and impossible are not the same thing. While this is technically true there are limits to how improbable something can be before it encroaches on and becomes indistinguishable from impossible.
A classic example in physics is this: if you were to push against a wall for a long amount of time, its "possible" that all the atoms that make up your body can all at once quantum tunnel to the other side of the wall allowing you to phase through it. The problem is that this event is so incredibly astronomically unlikely that the timescale it would take for the possibility to reasonably occur is much longer than the lifespan of the universe. the last proton would decay and the last black hole would evaporate long before this ever had a actual possibility of really happening, therefore making it by all practical means impossible.
Dreams luck isn't technically impossible, its just that a one in 20 sextillion odds (or 1/20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) is so ridiculously improbable that even trillions of computational simulations have yet to *even come close to* replicating the results. Its not a matter of skill, its a question of pure statistical dice rolls.
for context: there are roughly 7-11 billion people who have ever lived throughout human history. theoretically, if you gave them all a computer loaded with minecraft and asked every single person to replicate dreams rng, spending the entirety of their natural life playing minecraft until they keel over (lets assume average lifespan is 100 years), its still almost certain nobody could do it. So either he is the luckiest person *ever to live* or he cheated. which is more likely?
Edit: Apparently he finally admitted to it 5 months later, math wins again baby!
This. Just because something is "possible" doesn't mean it will ever happen.
He would have gained people trust to stab their back, dont you think?
What are the chances Vader is Luke's father?
@@malasc12 technically 100% since vader is in fact Luke's father
@@wolfeyes2948 Noo... THATS IMPOSSIBLE!
“Blaze spawners that spawn blazes” I don’t believe you
Sounds suspect
@@XraynPR Karl sus
Last time I checked they spawned spiders
1 in a Mil chance of actually spawning blazes instead of other mobs
blaze spawner exist blazes faster
No Karl Jobst, it is you who is an absolute legend.
I love how this got a ton of likes despite being a 'No U' comment lmao, congrats man!
'No you're breathtaking!'
the pfp adds to the fun
I'd be careful with calling him a legend. From what I learned today, one legend that was also involved in the speedrunning community, made videos and tried to fight against a speedrunner who cheated has fallen... :'(
@@LordDragox412 yeah, I heard about that to. The death of Apollo Legend is very upsetting to many people in the speed running community and he will be missed greatly.
The fact that he tried to take the moral high ground by dropping the whole subject is so annoying, especially given that it worked and he's still speedrunning mc to this day. Unfortunate that all his fans are 8 year old and will just believe him over actual evidence. The man straight up abuses the fact that his fans are literal children
didn’t he quit speedruning after he got accused of cheating?
@@angadgrewal9324 nope he did not he can still pass runs thats quite sad
@@evangelinelomboy260 He can still submit them, but he has to provide exhaustive proof he didn't cheat them
@@i_Soar
Shame nobody else who ever got caught cheating got that same opportunity. For anyone else it would've been a straight ban, that's it. Pisses me off that he gets this special treatment just because he's big
@@obamaorb7426 The double standard of most fans is the worst part of the whole sorry ordeal. Any other runner would lose their popularity instantly, but dream is able to hide behind his fanbase
Karl is pretty much the only person I believe when it comes down to cheating, because he has been doing this probably for years and has studied many other cases of cheating in plenty of games. Cheating ruins the game for everyone, please do not cheat because it doesn't make you a better person or player, but anyways, Happy New Year's Eve.
Karl has been speedrunning for decades, and it shows. He really is incredibly insightful on the topic of cheating and catching cheaters. He isn't the only person I would believe in this regard, but he'd probably be the hardest to disagree with.
Im going to believe the top runners of that game more tho (im not saying dream since you know hes the person being accused but people like Illumina)
I only believe my own eyes, even Karl can be wrong. But in this case he is correct, the math just doesn't add up in anyway that would make Dream look like anything less than a cheater or a literal God of luck and since I've seen him get unlucky it isn't the latter.
@@scavenger6576
The thing is, people who's arguing that, "he just could've been lucky!" needs to understand that luck or chance are just a numbers by the end of the day. If you run a simulation long enough you should be able to achieve the "luck" at some point.
It's just math, plain & simple.
Also, you can't compare code with real life. Codes have hundreds of thousand times more restriction than real life.
In conclusion, that ain't no luck, he do be cheatin' tho!
Me cheating in among us and giving people free skins and pets they know me as the legendary CIA agent I join very sus but end up a hero c:
When the Avengers have a way better chance in beating Thanos than this
Lol
waiting for the likes
The avengers just won because Dr Strange cheated
I think we should deem that timeline as illegitimate
@@f.b.i.853 I agree shut it down.
.
I can see “Dream luck” now becoming a meme term to describe someone who got crazy lucky at something
Itll catch on, dont worry
There are already a bunch of memes about him just getting lucky so I wouldn’t be surprised lmao
There’s already memes like “Dream going outside but getting thunder stormed repeatedly due to his luck”
minecraft 1.16 dream% incoming
New trope?
I love things got so serious! 15:20
And thanks to Karl for explaining how Minecraft works (no sarcasm here, never played this game :))
Yessir
Another verified TH-camr I don't know
@@kingofthedarknessbelow9833 another unverified user I don’t know
@@zendrive-4904 what the heck
@@kingofthedarknessbelow9833 top ten weirdest user name ever
I didn't realize his run was actually wr pace. That adds a whole other dimension to this wild ride.
His time would’ve been sub 16 or 15
@@r3x427 Funny how he got fucked by real RNG at the end.
@@Jenniowo “RN Jesus” smited him.
@@Jenniowo Poetic justice, I would say
@@Jenniowo how ironic.
Very Lucky% should be a meme speedrun category for Minecraft where every important chance is changed to 100%.
Actually a great idea that might solve this whole issue
There's a category called set seed if you're interested.
@@jet8424 Set Seed is just having an already planned world while Very Lucky changes every chance that's needed to 100%.
This could be very interesting, as it would completely eliminate drop RNG, making it much more skill based. I like this category
But the map is stiln randomly generated
*man I think we got something huge there*
Karl Jobst is the ultimate ambassador of the speedrunning community.
Honestly it was Summoning Salt that got me into speedrunning.
@@TheRepty818 same
@@TheRepty818 Same, although I feel like they interested me for completely different reasons.
@@GekkoOne I got into speedrunning through the Goldneye Elite in 2000. Booya.
Perhaps, just perhaps, he is the Most Absolute Legend.
Shout-out to the other people who are here after Dream admitted to cheating but declared it an "accident"
Lol then deleted it
You comment is, just like most things regarding this situation, very misleading. Watch Karl's most recent video about Dream for the truth.
@@bengtbengt3850 Hey hun I made this comment before Karl released his updated video, which I did watch multiple times, but thanks for the recommendation
Dream's response is basically that one scene in Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd is told his chances with the girl are one in a million. 'So you're telling me there's a chance?'
😂😂😂
Omg I watched that movie over 50 times no joke
I quote "so you mean there's a chance" far too much for my own sake
LOL, something can happen or something can't happen. There is no middle ground. Even in simple game like Can't Stop one can see how lucky people can be.
or something like
"here is smart person he says you are wrong
now go away stupid"
"Most speedrun cheaters aren't doing it to get a faster time. They're doing it to get a time, faster." This one hit hard. I've heard too many times from genuinely skilled cheater "I thought to myself 'I know I could get this time legit, if I just got the right rng. So what's the harm in making it so I get that rng now?" It's one thing to ban someone who was clearly presenting a TAS as a legit run, or to ban someone who spliced multiple WR-pace runs together. But banning someone who's genuinely skilled at the game is a lot more sad.
I get your point, however someone cheats once, they can not be trusted again
Edit: they can if their runs aren’t nearly as good after that person stops cheating
A lot of people are indescriminately hating on dream and similar cheaters, but honestly it feels like a question that, if discussed earlier in the speedrun community, could have had an entirely different answer. Its not so outlandish of an idea to make runs mucb more skill based by manually eliminating heavy RNG factors. Frankly, knowing that a certain time is possible and just relies on the game giving you the right luck is just painful
@@ciarangale4738 thank you. Finally someone that i agree with. I have always hated the luck based part of speed running. We will never know who the best is until we remove the luck portion
@@ciarangale4738 even if the rng in speedruns were perfect with a seeded world, i doubt dream would be first
@@ciarangale4738 so your saying cheating is fine because it’s changing odds of something happening? because of what you said, that’s what it’s seems you are implying
Dream on reddit: "You can look into the astrophysicist's credentials," while providing no credentials
Astrophysicist? bruh this guy playing Minecraft in space
I've seen people saying it's in the document dream provided, it's a harvard graduate working at a company. The company is fairly recent which people found suspicious
@@Bladieblah yeah only made in 2011 lmao
@@Bladieblah he also did shit math, which most people would find suspicious.
Lol since when are astrophysics and videogame probability the same thing? Even if that astrophysicist is a highly professional one, wouldn't it make more sense to hire eg a professional statistician/programmer or something?!
Dream here is morally wrong. While I do enjoy his content, it is hard to watch someone fake it till they make it here.
tbh idc about fake speedrunning, look at other dream's content (Minecraft, but ... ), it's very enjoyable to watch, even with his team like george etc. That's why his subs increase so fast.
@@Cornysz i dont know what is so Entertaining about a "pro" Beating up 3 Noobs
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 their screaming
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 I don't know why people don't understand they better than average people not noobs who literally don't even know how craft
@@Cornysz it matters when other people work so hard to get records and this Dream guy comes in and cheats his way up, it’s very scummy.
You guys are wrong. He didn’t cheat. I’ve done an analysis and according to my calculations he has a better gaming chair than all of us.
They had us in the first half not gonna lie
@@Shrecked it’s too big of a secret I don’t even know
Dude I used the same gaming chair to cheat on my girlfriend, works like a charm!
Don't be idiotic, this is serious DevilGhost.
@@kenny4906 tHiS is SeRiOus GrEeN bLob CheATeD BlOcK gAmE HoW dAAREEEE yOu TrY tO mAkE LiGht oF tHe SitUaTioN
“Just shy of 70%”
Coward.
69% Nice.
@@shayurbadal572 That is what I’m thinking.
Lol
I would assume 2/3 if he was going for nice numbers.
@TheThunderGuyS
I thought he did that for sextillion. Did I miss one for 69‰
my disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined
why
@@raynbowshot6303 cause he cheated, duh!
@@kendricklamaristhegreatest oh
Why am i the only one here who gets the reference
@@Tired_Slime You aren't the only one.
dream deleted his response video 2 weeks ago
Nice
its cause he's innocent, see he knows he doesn't need to prove his innocence, his innocence is clear in his honest, soft eyes and his roguish voice
@@valuehunter5544 hes not, he thinks that deleting the video can just pretend nothing has happened and not ruining his reputation
@@alivingcreatur i was being intensely satirical
@@valuehunter5544 he’s too handsome to be guilty
“Blaze spawners that spawn blazes”
every 60 seconds in Africa a minute passes
Water contains water
Together, we can stop this
Minecraft is made out of minecraft
Stolen comment
That's a waterfall of water!
"Dream's luck was about to change!"
one way or another lmao
He will be fine, financially. But I'm sure he will suffer with this burden.
idk why but this made me laugh so fucking hard, probably cos its 3:45 on new years day but regardless, thank you for that dude
Yep, that’s the joke
lmao= "lettuce mayo and onion"
- Bitzel 2020
You comment is at 777
“Players don’t cheat to get a faster time, but to get a time faster.” You are the legend, Karl
Amazing quote
Indeed
Can someone please explain this quote, I only undrrstand a bit of it
@@arandominternetuser4507 It means that the speedrunner knows that he can get a faster time if they would have better luck. So they cheat to get rid of the rng aspect.
@@arandominternetuser4507 I think it means that speedrunners cheat not necessarily to get better time, but to get that time earlier in their careers and skip the grind, since they know they had the skill to eventually reach said record someday.
To any dream stans reading this, 1 in 20 sextillion is an astronomically low likelihood, here's an example.
Load up a fresh new Minecraft world and try to guess the seed first try. The chances of that are 1 in 18 quintillion which is almost 1 thousand times less than 20 sextillion
being that 1 Sextillion = 1000 Quintillion, it's 1111 times less likely.
@@Bruno-xi3jm you shouldn't like cheaters
@@Bruno-xi3jm the fuck does that mean?
"I specifically waited to hear both sides of the story"
Be careful, Karl. This is the internet. Using your brain can be dangerous.
People who DARE try to reach synthesis by listening to both sides are OBVIOUSLY just stupid fencesitters, duh.
Thanks Internet.
@Bird Face and horrifying
bup pulls this post off even better
@@mr.personalspace7831 It's not personal animosity, it's Hegelian Dialectics
Ceaser isn't a fencesitter, but Caesar sure is
He didnt cheat. He said "sleep tight, doggo" on a reddit post last year for 5 years of good luck
LMAO
You watch those videos too?
REDDIT MOMENT.
😐 reddit mfs always be the most unfunniest i swear
The joke isn't even funny
I like how you phrased the video in a way that someone who hasn't played can understand.
For sure. Never played MC before.
The man once said he didn’t tell his fans to chill out because he thought it would make things worse. His fans harassed and sent death threats to the speedrun mods. Truly flawless logic.
well i guess that's the way she goes
Sadly, this won’t affect Dream that much at all. He still has an army of fans who don’t know this ever happened.
@@xRyann_ that is stans for u
Hello timeworks
I think Dream’s “Face Reveal” was timed to boost fan support. After all he has studied the algorithm of TH-cam. I am still a fan of Dream nonetheless.
yoo timeworks whats up didnt expect to come across your comment
_"I've got some epic new posters"_
*literally darker than the abyss*
Gonna need some better contrast to see them, Karl! You're still a legend tho
What a man
Not just a legend. An absolute legend.
Joking aside - Displate does provide awesome high quality posters. Can certainly recommend.
You only know of the abyss, nare have you seen it beyond the average mortal. Karl resides in it, not blinded, nor is he reliant on sight as are those closer to our glorious and merciless star.
Yeah, how did the sponsors approve that if you can't even see them lol
When Karl Jobst finds you cheating in a speedrun, you know you're fried.
I wouldn't say Karl is the definitive authority on it, just one that we know of that does his best to break it down for us given the complexities speed running can entail. With that in mind I don't really know anyone else that does it in that way.
I wouldn’t mind someone cheating, but the fact he attacked the moderators and he ‘apologised’ 11months later bothers me
And top of that selling a worthless coin badge for 20 usd bothers me more.
Apologized to the "very unprofessional" moderators, what a stand up guy...
I wouldn't mind someone cheating if
A) admitted it
B) sincerely apologized for doing it
Bonus: they meme and joke about it
And he did neither of those 2 EVEN AFTER ADMITTING IT. What a fucking guy ain't he? 🤡
It was honestly a non-apology. He didn't apologise for anything, he didn't apologise or acknowledge the threats his fans sent to the speedrun mods and anyone else reporting on it. He didn't even take blame for any of it, and then after all he said, he deleted the pastebin and tweet about it.
@@rocketlanterns That's just not true lol. Did you read the second apology addressed specifically to the mods and the speedrunning community? And he didn't delete the pastebin either (it's impossible to delete a post as a guest), it just got taken down because it got mass reported.
"Lol he cheated."
-Sun Tsu
Sun Tsu said that. And I'd say he knows a little bit more about cheating than you do pal, because he invented it.
@@notonthrax And then he perfected it so no living man could best him in the ring of scandals
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
@@MrSNESwithMemes *obviously hacked Soldier gameplay plays*
"To the left!"
'MAGGOTS'
*tosses gold ingot at piglin on the left, gets another Eye of Ender*
That serotonin boost when Karl calls you a legend.
It’s great isn’t it
@@warezpl0 shut up.
@@warezpl0 bruh
@@warezpl0 people who watches his videos are legends, not everyone
@@karamanid exactly
its not even the fact that he cheated, its the fact that he cheated, did all this bullshit when he knew he was lying through his teeth, and when he finally was confirmed a cheater he's like "at the end of the day i respect their decision" like ??? i thought u were so confident that u werent cheating?
@@lagc5103 if my run was actually legitimate? Yes, 100% yes. I would go miles to prove my hard work isn’t cheating.
Dream actually was like "I don't care about a dumb position anyway." Yeah, I enjoy his content but damn he's a child.
@@mainsera4407 I'd do that if it was a world record run, but it was a 15th place run or something, at that point I would happily throw it away so I don't end up in any stupid drama over it.
@@bananaisgood3743 you didn't even listen to the video, goddamn. He was on world record pace by a significant margin until he got unlucky with ender eyes in the portal. Who fucking cares what place he was in? If he cheated, he cheated and it should be taken down, regardless of where it falls on the leaderboard.
Just take a look at this video th-cam.com/video/YyEvlmBmjjc/w-d-xo.html . It's an interview made with dream and he is probably one of the best liars I've seen, but the stats are so much against him that there's no way he's legit. Just goes to show how manipulative some people can actually be.
lol, he deleted his video
He did, wow
"Im innocent"
I think I heard something about in a deleted Twitter reply he confirmed he was guilty
@@leaf9509 yeah, but he never said he would delete is response video, lol
yeah it's private now, lol