Workplace NIGHTMARES - The "BIG 4" are TOXIC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
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Join me as I dive into the eye-opening and somewhat baffling world of Big 4 work culture, specifically taking a closer look at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC). After stumbling upon the PWC subreddit, I was both amused and horrified by what I found. From the competition of working insane overtime without extra pay to the high school drama of office politics, it's a wild ride. In this video, I share my thoughts on why the allure of working for such prestigious firms might not be worth the mental gymnastics required to survive. We'll explore the absurd expectations placed on employees, the ridiculous office rituals, and the overall toxic environment that seems to be the norm. If you've ever wondered what it's really like inside these corporate giants, or if you're considering a job offer from them, you might want to watch this first.
#PWC #Big4Culture #ToxicWorkplaces #CorporateLifestyle #JoshuaFluke #WorkLifeBalance #MentalHealthAwareness #OfficePolitics #Overwork
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Toxic or not? No way bro.
Not Toxic. Efficiently built to give hell to nihilistic posers who make themself a priority. Sick of that mimicry and Redditors entirely. If all you are is a Schedule jockey looking for stolen glory privilege then may that firing come with a prison sentence cherry on top.
How much you guys wanna bet the management at PWC are all terrible parents if they have kids. Kids are gonna hate them or basically not give a shit because mom or dad was never around to raise them. It's these people that are ruining children. You don't work 60 hours a week and spend time with your kids. They are a bunch of losers. Lick the corporate boot some more.
I will buy one soon when I have money. I’ve been looking for one.
My cousin works for Pwc in the UK & from hear from both this video & her I'd say this sounds about right unfortunately
@@Emperor-InkerBut the system wants more babies produced each hear to get cheaper and larger workslaves for the future and keep you in debt via marriage so you stay a good little dog who won't complain and take whatever they do to you at work.
If you want me to work for 55 hours, you're gonna pay me for 55 hours. And pretending to work for even more than that will cost extra.
Yeah, I'm done with that. The salary/OT exempt thing is just legalized wage theft. The "It'll pay off with a bonus" never quite works out. The bonus, IF there is one at all, pays maybe 1/10 th of all the OT I put in. Since 2020, I've learned to work either work part-time on-demand or full time ONLY if they pay me for all overtime hours worked.
But bro the ot is part of your salary
@@Merlin_From_Shrek_3 No it isn't. In the US, we have a 40 hour work week. Anything over 40 hours is overtime. You get paid for that ovetime unless you are salaried/OT exempt, which is a business term for "you work for free after 40 hours".
@@Seattle-2017Technically he is correct. In a salary position all hours worked, regular and overtime, are your pay. It's just you get paid the same whether you work 40 hours or 80 hours. It sucks and I'll avoid it if I can. There are perks for salaried positions but the question is do they outweigh having to work so many hours? My answer is no.
I am hourly in a union. One minute over its 84/hour
PWC: people working constantly
It's a people-whoring company.
Genuinely seems like that. My company is audited by PWC and the amount of audit requests they send out of working hours is sad. Like at 8-9pm or on weekends wasn’t unusual.
wanking more like it
Even at smaller CPA firms it seems like it’s like that. The one I worked at Would frequently let you know that you were expected to work over the weekends when you were not at the office. It was all because of time constraints, but it was all ridiculous. How can you be refreshed when you’re expected to work all the time?
Luckily for me, I started my accounting career at 35 after I had a career change and at that point, I knew not to put up with BS. I did not work weekends whether they wanted me to or not. And I still did a good job and people wanted to work with me on their team.
How did you get treated after you did your required work only? Did they fire you or did you get by ok just doing your own work and leaving when your hours are over @@jjminor
Never show fear. Management gets scared when you don't care what they do.
Yes they want scared employees. If we don't care about our jobs they have no power over us. They love employees with a lot of debt because they are easily controlled.
It's so sad that this is true. I give myself 2 out 3 during my performance evaluations each year even though I know some of my coworkers that do less give themselves 3. I give myself a 2 to tell my supervisor in no words they aren't getting more from me than what they paid for. And since I know am not being paid my true value, I do 40 percent less. And quite frankly, 60 percent is generous.
@@CaraMarie13I like that!
@@CaraMarie13 Nice, but personally I don’t give more than 1 out of 3.
@@CaraMarie13 Right on!
This exact corporate culture is the universal norm in Japan and it has legit gotten in the way of people being able to date, have friends, vote intelligently, eat healthy, and reproduce.
And they shouldn’t reproduce if their children are going to have to live that kind of life.
it was all planned that way
thats the result of people just "going with the flow" and "being agreeable" for a whole generation.
No wonder Japans population is literally declining. More people are dying than being born and a shocking amount are suicides.
You guys are deluded
The reasons why people ended up that way is because Japan has made it a death sentence to not conform.
Industry accountant here. Big 4 is hella toxic. Always has been and always will be.
@@pointvector1951 The Big 4 are the biggest accounting/consulting/legal/finance companies in the world. They are Deloitte, EY, KPMG, and PwC, essentially every single famous, large company, or government has used their services at some point, be it Tesla, Amazon, Microsoft, Disney, Activison-Blizzard, NYT, Ford, GM, GE, Shell, Exxon, Perdue, HP, Pzifer, Siemens, Fischer, Wall Street, most governments or any other large company in the entertainment, energy, accounting, legal, gaming, news, automobile, management, finance, pharmaceutical, and medical industries. They are notoriously difficult to work for and have a terrible work culture but almost every college or university pushes students toward these companies because they are resume boosters, if you get into their program and last for two or so years you are effectively hirable to almost anywhere in the accounting/consulting world.
It used to be the big five, six, and eight but consolidation has trimmed it to the big four. During the Big Five era, Arthur Andersen was complicit in the infamous Enron scandal of 2001 and had their assets divided into the big four companies.
@@pointvector1951 pwc, delloite, KPMG and other maybe EY
And they never read last year's file so ask the same questions.
@@pointvector1951 I believe they are the 4 largest accounting firms. Apart from obviously being toxic workplaces, every one of them has been under investigation in recent years for executive corruption and all sorts of shady BS.
@pointvector1951
There was a clue in the comment you were replying to when it said, "industry accountant."
"Big 4" is short for big 4 accounting firms.
Its so weird and painful to know that these kind of workplaces exists.
As I've been thinking a lot lately, how could businesses really be reputable if they're abusive to their employees while having a "too big to fail" vibe.
I'd rather live with 2 roommates and drive a beater then make money and put up with that shit.
The military can be like this too. I have a couple decades of experience in the Army before retiring. It can been filled with people just sitting around at times waiting to be the last to leave. I had a supervisor, an officer, he wouldn't leave the office until 6 p.m. often. He wasn't doing anything. I got stuck leaving at 5 p.m. most days because of him, even if I got all my work done hours ago. I could easily be online at home than at work.
I watched the video and thought the comments were translated from 1970's Japan for a second. I don't have a good reason why I thought that, but it clicked.
Former PwC here. That place sucks. During my intro call with my Senior Manager he said to me “There is no reason why you should work past 7 PM” to which I replied “You mean 5 PM, right?”.
Afterwards, he would constantly reach out to me at 4:55 PM or sometimes after 5 PM to give me work to do. After working there for three years, I called it quits. It was a horrible experience and I would not recommend it to anyone.
Adding on to my previous comment. PwC does something called “reinvestment” which just means you have a collateral duty to perform on top of your 40-hour commitment to the client. The amount of responsibility associated with this collateral duty can vary, but it is not uncommon to work around 5-10 hours a week on it which creates even more work for you. It is just nonsense.
typical wall street brokerage....."dont bother comming in on sunday , if you didnt come in on saturday".....70-90 hr/week = standard😳😳😳
@@lunam7249Learn to say NO.
Is that why kids work there for a year to 3 years just so they get their foot in the door out of college then leave to do their own thing or work for a smaller firm or leave the accounting field?
@@SuperStarTidus18 What is the monthly wage for working like a lunatic?
As a former employee I want to share my story, this is 100% real. I worked there for years and got promoted multiple times. I had a family situation that required me to ask for a leave, then when I came back I wanted to discuss quitting because my job was highly demanding. My boss talked me into staying part-time. So I started doing a job search to get out of that stress. I finally found a new job. Then HR immediately asked me for a private meeting because they said someone found out I have a new job and I can’t work PART TIME with them if I have another job!!😂 So I resigned same day and gave them my notice that I will leave in a couple of weeks, but they decided to exercise an option where they let me out a couple of days before bonuses were paid out so I was not paid my bonus. This is corporate scum at its finest. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about you at all, at all
I had a boss that worked in investment banking which is even worse than big 4 as it's 80 hour weeks with an all night with no sleep once a month. They treat you like shit on their shoes. He was so unbelievably toxic. He was so pompous and arrogant but in my opinion it was a front for being a coward. He would never give me feedback one on one. He told one of my coworkers feedback on me and that coworker would bring me in a room and tell me it. Coward. This guy is the type that sent me a 5 paragraph email saying how incorrect "Beginning an email with hi, hello, or hey is innapropriate, you can only use their first name in an intro". If I showed up 10 seconds after him or left 10 seconds before him, I'd get a 4 paragraph email. He made my female coworker balling cry 2 times. He gave another coworker a panic attack where he fell back in chair and hit his head on the ground. They called 911 for help. An ambulance showed up, rolled out a stretcher and in front of 50 of his coworkers unconcious, they strapped him on a stretcher and took him to the ER. He later said "Oh it's just because I'm unhealthy and have gotten fat recently." He was way too nice to call out this man.
I ended up getting laid off. When he and HR brought me in a room and told me, I just didn't care. My last words to him were "Welp, I probably won't ever see you again... so see ya" and walked out. Like I have massive student loans and getting laid off with no income should be devestating, but I didn't care. When I last left the parking lot driving off, the song "I can see clearly now the rain is gone. I can see past obstacles in my way. It's gonna be a bright, bright, bright, sunny shiny day..." I was literally at top of my lungs yelling this song. It was cathartic. I ended up getting a new job, making 35% more in an awesome culture. I can't be grateful enough for him firing me. It was the best thing to ever happen to me. I've had dreams of finding out where he lives and rubbing dog shit on his windows and door handles. The most astonishing this of this all is that he had a wife. I couldn't get over that any woman on earth would ever in a billion years marry him even though he was rich.
I had a manager who wanted to have a one way window installed in their office so they could watch (spy on) the employees. Fortunately the higher up said no to that. She ended up getting sacked because everybody eventually quit on her. Hi NANCY.
hahah 😂, that final flex by name and all 🤣
Sadly, she will never read that comment as people like that will never watch videos like that.
Hi Nancy! XD
Bye nancy! 👋
"An officer should not work, looking over his men's shoulder, checking on every detail of what they are doing, and calling them to account at every furlong post. This maidenly attitude corrodes confidence and destroys initiative." - The Armed Forces Officer, Edition of 1950, p. 211
My friends worked at PWC and KPMG. These are just glorified resume booster companies. And they work you they really do own you. Making partner basically is more about how much you can brownnose.
“Making partner is basically more about how much you can brownnose.” You can say that again!
huh, that kinda explains why these kind of companies have a lot of wahmen SM and partners, its just to show off and get that DEI money
@@gokicuysome of yall truly are miserable
@@whyme7862 thx 4 concern m8
You have to be sadistic to make partner. That can take 15 years of working min 45-50 hours a week during normal times and 70-100 during busy season
I used to work for Accenture, literally NO ONE had anything nice to say about the place.
Had one buddy who was LIED TO in interview about salary.
Had several friends (over 20) who were lied to about job functions.
During training, was given an assignment, I did it took me 16 hours, my 'cowrker' did, just JOSH'D his way thru the conversation.
His reason for not doing it : Too much reading .
I was put on performance plan because I REFUSED to do work related work OUTSIDE OF WORK.
Accenture was most traumatic experience. It was horrible and I have so many more stories.
The finance industry has the worst work cultures ever in my opinion. Accenture, KPMG, Deloitte, Boston consulting, Mckinsey. At least bankers get paid big money, consultants and accountants get paid average to be exploited and live in hotels with co-workers
I interviewed for them a few years ago but I ended up removing myself from the process, the HR person and everyone I talked to was overly happy, like fake happy. And as I asked about the structure it came clear that it was a managers first company and the developers where the bottom of the barrel, since I would have something like 2-3 managers on my side and 5-6 levels on top of me. I just noped out of there
Yikes… yet these job seekers are obsessed to work at one because apparently it would look good on your resume
I advise people to add up the actual hours they work and calculate their actual hourly rate.
I was in a big architectural firms for many years before it occurred to me to do the calculation. I found out I was getting paid less per hour than I would get for manual labour.
I seen the same thing from a lawyer that was working 60 hours a week and realized a person with a 2 year degree getting hourly wages would make more more money logging those kind of hours with decent overtime incentives.
Also how much the experience is worth on your CV after. For some, the shit WLB is worth it for a few years to accelerate your career.
Took you years to occur to you do this calculation? Faaaaaack, any person w 2 neurons would put this calculation together
It took you _that_ long to run those numbers?
The architecture industry is terrible when it comes to money overall. The culture of overworking for nothing is instilled in us since college. ☠️☠️☠️
As a former Big 4 consultant, this is all very true. Clocking in at 9:10am is acceptable, working 55 hrs is expected but I worked like 52-56 hrs. They gave me a ton of money but no time with family. If you have kids then that’s great because you have an excuse to miss meetings. If you don’t have optics going for you then you better socialize quickly there because they will get rid of you. If you don’t wear the correct outfit on camera, then you are seen as unprofessional and they will tell you. Also, your mandatory company trainings take a huge chuck of time that you don’t have because they overwork you. I have seen the dark side of Big4 and I will never go back. I turned down PwC because I heard about the quiet layoffs. Also, they didn’t like that I owned my own LLC so they told me to dissolve it. I was like nahhh, go f urself 😂
Why would they care that you have an LLC?
Several reasons,@@hawkgurl1157, The first is that they feel like you'll be poaching their customers (which is ridiculous if anyone knows how the Big 4 get their clients) or that you're more concerned with your own welfare than the company (yes, they really expect a cult-like loyalty). Also they know how hard it is to own your I.P. if it's through an LLC. If I work for pwc for example and on my own time, I build the next great app that is worth billions, they're going to go back to that employment contract and point out that I signed away copyright and everything in my "new hire" orientation. If my LLC owns it, that's not me, and it's hard for them to make that claim. (Now, I would never sign away my copyright and I've turned down jobs from sizeable companies that tried this underhanded tactic, but many just sign everything thrown at them as part of the process).
@@hawkgurl1157it was a data LLC but they wanted me to deal with internal work so I wouldn’t be front facing with clients so it literally didn’t matter. They are just self centered
My experience is they pay shit. I know an entry level accountant that was making $58k working 55 hour weeks. That's bad.
About 10 years ago I worked at PwC Montreal. Literally hated everybody there (Except one senior manager that later became partner, P.C.) Got fired after the first year because I was entering too many hours in my time sheet during busy season (the real worked hours) and the partners hated this because it lowered their jobs' net margins (a senior manager explained that to me after the fact). 2 years later in industry I was making more money then my manager (who worked 6 years to get there and works 3x more hours than me). Audit is a scam.
"audit is a scam" for the public, the auditors, and any prospective accounting student
I work at a Big 4 in consulting
Literally every waking moment I want to cry
I been wanting to change to b4 cause I’m at a top 10 firm but the name isn’t as good.
I didn’t know there was a top 10 list out there unless you are talking about auditting/tax?
If so then why not, same shit different company. I’m sure the small businesses have the same shady ongoings too
@@jimbojimbo6873 Well there’s big4 followed by the national firms (BDO, RSM, Grant Thronton, Baker Tilly, etc).
@@jimbojimbo6873 After b4 there’s the nationals (BDO, RSM, Grant Thronton, Baker Tilly, etc).
I’m in audit and would like to change to consulting or advisory, but seems difficult if I couldn’t get in and then I’d have to be a staff 1 again.
Stay strong. I left but big 4. I wish I had switched practices to a different advisory type, I'd have possibly ended up with better managers and projects.
Took me 6 months to emotionally and intellectually recover after huge burnout. Lol.
After time I lost emotions. My mind took a large toll and I wasn't able to think as fast as before or remember information. I lost my creativity. I've regressed in my verbal skills to high school level and in social skills as well. I realized I was terribly sad only after quitting and literally crying for 7 days when I visited my parents.
I still don't know what went wrong.
My friend worked at PWC a few years ago in Bolivia, he was paid 200 USD a month and worked 16 hours a day
I'm paid 415 work 40 hours a week
As an UNARMED!!! bank guard
In the US in 2024
He's just a slave at that point...I'd bet that actual slaves work less too
@@God7OD can you confirm the typo there? $415 A WEEK is what I’m assuming (at least!) right?
@@alejmc yup 415 a week
I used to live off of 268 a month
@@God7OD that's quite the minimalism life hack. Good job on that front.
Myself I try to think often this: "every $ that I spend today is a $ that I'll have to work in the future. Debt compounds those hours of the future to boot"
I'd rather fall eyeball first on a fork than work any job like that...
Wow. That's deep! 😂😂 💯
I’d rather work as a night guard at a pizzeria with homicidal animatronic characters terrorizing me. **plays “The Toreador March” on a music box**
Most accounting students spend college hearing that you have to work Big 4 and pass the CPA to have a good career. This message is reinforced by job listings for senior positions that ask for Big 4 experience. For that reason many Big 4 associates put up with a lot.
💯
Fuck those positions too then! Why do they want people that worked at big 4? They want drones!
Eh, if you make CPA you can just skip the Big 4, no? Who cares if you're a high powered clerk if you're already at certified level?
@@thuglifebear5256 employers care. Unless you are in private practice, you have to be lucky to get a good corporate accounting gig without big 4 on your resume.
And those college students potentially take out six figures worth of student loan debt, so they feel they need to work at the Big 4 firm to get higher pay and pay off their student loans.
After one year with the company, my managers gave me the feedback that my work was excellent. One week later, yearly feedback put me in the bottomest tier, my coach told me it was nothing to worry about. One week later, was fired for "low performance" 🎉🎉🎉
That’s pretty brutal, when I was at Deloitte all first years were basically given a 3 (average rating) 2nd year and on it was open season though… I didn’t know how under paid I was until after I was laid off and picked up for something 30% more pay
Years of being told how important and valued I am, and how great our product is doing in the marketplace. Only to be told that no matter how well OUR team is doing, the overall company had a bad year, so no raise (or an insultingly small raise).
Will everything we've done and our years of poor raises be recognized if the company ever has a good year? No, of course not.
Were you able to collect unemployment in that situation? Or did the company fight it because they said they didn't lay you off, rather they fired you for "low performance".
I got a "talking to" once about rolling in at 9:30am. Went something like,
"You know, there's eyes and ears that see when you come in."
My answer was, "yeah? Well where are they at 10pm? Where are they on the weekend?"
“Good, they can see me flip ‘em off, and hear me tell them what the middle finger represents.”
My company lets you clock out early with PTO if you have it. One time, a manager, who was supposedly a lazy POS when he was on the floor, got on a guy's case for not immediately jumping on a job that there was plenty of time to do. The guy didn't appreciate his approach and just left early to spite him lol.
I know someone who was a junior professor. He made sure to be in the university just before his senior professor came in and leave just after the senior left. His senior was very happy that the junior worked so much more than him because he was there ALL the time.😂
I don't understand, don't you have those cards? Idk what they're called in English. You scan the card when you enter/exit the office and it automatically logs your hours.
@@anon3746 Last time I've seen those in use was 15 years ago. I view them as a sign of distrust towards employees.
My shift is 8 to 5. I get an hour lunch. I take my 1 hour lunch every single day. I don't work past 5. I don't care about priorities or deadlines.
how's minimum wage?
@@jmcooney2000 wouldn't know. I make $42/hr 🙃
Thing is, not many stay in the big 4 or IB for that long. You do your 2-3 yrs as a graduate then leverage the experience to land a better paid/more chill role.
Atleast with IB your making some good money. With big 4 all you have is the name and alot of choices on places to work (for now)
What is IB?
@@KuptisOriginal Investment banking
I once worked with colleagues from US, me being from EU, at an EU client site. I was 24 yo back then and I was asked by a 50+ male colleague from US why I was leaving at 5.30-6 pm, while the US manager was still there. I said - my work for the day is done and the working hours too. He told me that in US they have to come to work before the manager does and leave after he does. All the EU colleagues were coming at work around 9.30-10 am, US people were already there. EU workers were leaving at 5.30-6 pm, US workers were still there.
At the end of the project the US manager badmouthed all the EU colleagues to they EU management for not doing their work. We had fabulous reviews from the client though, so we never heard of that US manager again and we got good appraisals at the end of the year. Was working at one of the biggest IT companies worldwide.
Also, all the US colleagues were taking turns in buying lunch for the US manager, we never bothered. Huge gap in mentality.
I'd argue that there's a bigger incentive to act that way in the US because the pay is much higher and taxes much lower.
@@zerohero5753 I'd also argue that even the taxes are higher, we have free education and healthcare in EU. I wouldn't say the payment is US is higher, so I don't see any incentive to kiss anyone's behind for something that is transactual (one works to be paid). Also, EU has laws for employment, while US lacks in this domain.
Same, like our building locks at 6pm, I can't stay late, even if I wanted to. Because my company doesn't want to pay me overtime and I legally can't just "stay and work for free".
@@ira2016 The fact you think you have "free education and healthcare" tells me all I need to know about your "accounting" skills.
Back when I worked for university career services I remember big 4 recruiting staff asking if they could stay after 5pm on Friday to process on-site interview offers. I informed them absolutely not as the University closes the student center at 5pm on Friday. Just as I expected push-back an armed campus police officer appeared in the doorway. Have a great weekend. And go get a life!
Colleges try SO hard to push you into one of the big 4 audit firms. Protip: it's not worth working in that rat race, go work at another location. You will make more money with less time spent. All the auditors are a joke anyways that literally zero client likes.
Go work for a private, local CPA out of college. You will learn so much more while also being in a decent work environment.
That old, and very funny, musical called "How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying" is from a different era, but some of it's lessons still apply.
I did an internship at PwC. I didn’t accept a full time offer for 1 reason.
The best career advice I’ve ever heard is to look at the people above you and see if they’re happy. No one was and the partner said he only did accounting because his dad told him too. I’m so glad I left.
I’m in a great job now with perfect work/life balance.
What field are you in? Is it still accounting or something else?
@@smpiano6605 nah, I started at amazon as a warehouse grunt and moved up to an admin position. I work M-F 8 hour shifts and work from home Monday and Friday. Amazon also lets you use your time off when and how you want. My manager approves all vacation time off.
And I can wear what I want. In public accounting you have to dress business casual. I could roll into work at amazon wearing the same pajamas I wore the day before when I worked from home haha
@@NickOloteo I’m in public at a top 10 firm and we can wear casual stuff guess it depends on office
@@bluemo7253 PwC was the least strict out of the big 4. They let you wear jeans haha
I just applied for them knowing I was never going to get hired so I could claim that I'm looking for a job. Glad to know I never got an interview with them.
The amount of overtime I'd be working is exactly zero hours. You want me to work it? Pay for it.
Exactly!💯
In my profession (Architecture), they don't ask you to work overtime (as a salaried/OT exempt worker). They just place ridiculous deadlines on you that you have to meet, and the only way of meeting them is by working a lot of unpaid OT. All to make the boss look good. If you don't work the OT and don't meet the deadline, then it's a "meeting" in the bosses' office. They ask "what's the problem?", and "how can we help?". If you're honest with them about the deadline, they don't want to hear it, and imply that you work too slow. And they don't threaten your job, but you're first on the layoff list when the layoffs roll around.
I basically had enough of this shit back in 2020, and vowed to never work full time salaried/OT exempt again. It has worked out so far with different freelance and sub-contracting gigs, and a part time job that's now full time but I get paid for all my overtime. I'm making almost double what I was prior to my 2020 layoff, and retirement has become a real possibilty.
@@Seattle-2017 Yeah, I get it. Glad you could find a better way. 👍
In my profession (control engineer), they would keep all the meetings on overtime. God, they wouldn't even pay me for it. It's hell. But for the fact of the matter, I wouldn't go to half the meetings like that anyways 😅
But then you won’t be promoted and rot in same position. Is that okay with you??
This has been the Big 4 for the last 30 years. In our program they said "Get your three years in and never go back." What an attitude to have.
3 years? That is a lot 😂
@@na27000 I couldn't do it again. 🤣🤣 Three months is enough to tell you that they suck ass.
that's actually a really good list of explaining how office optics work.
So, if you're perceived as a lead, leave first, so everyone else will ACTUALLY LEAVE AT A REASONABLE HOUR.
if you tell them, they won't. be a role model, leave early. :)
you hit the nail on the head, its a lack of a merit-based system. its all optics.
Man, this why I'm glad I work a blue collar job I got into with zero tuition debt and am alone by myself most of the time
Smart, but my advise is dont be too lonely. Your brain needs some socialbility.
Recently mckinsey consultant in India commited suicide due to high work pressure. He was from IIT and IIM highly prestigious and competitive institutes
That’s so sad 😢
I appreciate so much how you articulate why these type of practices are so toxic. As an elder millennial when I entered the workforce I had to struggle through these environments while feeling like I was the only one that thought that it was horrific and unacceptable. So happy to see that people have finally woken up to the reality and are refusing to put up with it anymore!
Josh - You really need to get on Fish Bowl - Those people who work in Big 4 (Deloitte, EY, KPMG and PWC) and the major consulting firms like Bain, McKinsey, Accenture, EY Parthenon, etc. - THIS IS ALL THEY TALK ABOUT.
You could probably put together a weekly segment of best (or worse) Fishbowl posts, do a weekly segment, and have material forever!
ex big 4 here. hated it. this video is just the tip of iceberg. the perks and career boost when I was young was well worth it in the short term
Haha r/accounting represent , thanks Josh for covering our sub lmaoooo
Yeah man, I think we could do a lot of damage to this nonsense if each one got each other’s backs… for example, if I knew someone in accounting I could totally blast it full volume in the forums, because myself I know I will never end up working these types of domains and definitely not the Big 4s.
That friend could do the same for me in video games, these companies are so stingy and anti-accountability that them finding this very same comment could land me in trouble.
I hope he covers r/furrysinaccounting next! Updoot fellow redditor!
It was the big 5 before. I have worked at andersen consulting (now accenture), mind games are definitely the name of the game. My four years there were hell; imagine working 16 hrs a day, 7x a week for a measly overtime allowance (and that is not giving it due to the manager's use of company policy loopholes). This is in the Philippines delivery center alone. I have an interview with pwc now and I am thankful to have watched this video.
Dude, what people want to see is the REAL unemployment. I have so many co workers who are out of work after decades of experience and there is NOTHING out there.
But they are trying to tell us unemployment is low.
THAT would be a good video to see
Yes. Agreed. I’m seeing the same.
john williams shadow stat dot come; seriously and respectfully - veteran
The ruling party always tries to downplay economic issues during an election year.
It is calculated based on people currently drawing unemployment. That’s it. The metric was changed to be this way so the government could call it all okay.
Florida 🏖 has 1 of the lowest weekly UC rates in the USA 🇺🇸. Around 48th/50. $275-week is max, NASA PhD? $275. Wal Mart deli worker? Stock products 🛒 ? $275. Disney & the huge hotel, tourist firms pushed to stop any UC 📂 $. Florida & DEO went after Covid19, PPP, PUA funds. They hassled me at length for $8000+ uhhh no. ⬇️
As someone who does taxes and full charge bookkeeping here is some advice. If you work for someone else's company, do the bare min but learn. Do not get involved in corporate and take steps to complete your certs, and get a business up and running. If you own your own tax firm, I would go 100%. There is a major shortage of tax preparers. If you have to say over at a big four, do your own company work on the low and never say anything about it to anyone (get your CPA or EA). Stay one year then leave. TLDR: Do not work unless you get paid.
How do you get clients? What do you specifically pitch? I currently have some small business clients (basically corner shops and such) but I want to expand to small tier manufacturing businesses as there is more revenue in that.
@@apuapustaja1 I got most of my big clients from the connections I made working for the big firms.
Big 4 is literally the impediment of the phrase “Golden handcuffs” I use to want to go into management consulting until I started seeing a lot deeper depth on how they actually treat them. A lot Ivy League entitled egotistic people that look at others as if they are inferior to them.
Like cool you went to an Ivy League school that ran your pockets dry. Cool you want a cookie cuz people can do the same type of work if not BETTER than you on doing the same things you do through stuff you can find open source.
even the hiring process is toxic with most consultant firms, not just the big 4. they don't even pay well for normal level employees.
i went to school with a lot of people who worked at big 4 after grad and none of them ever made partner, all of them burned out in 5 years or less. they called it the bamboo ceiling but in reality it's just the way the business is run. their whole game is to nab smart, hard-working, anxious, high-C people and squeeze every last drop of work out of them for as long as they can. then they replace them with the next crop of new grads. rinse repeat. it works because these companies offer something these new grads desperately need: decent pay right out of school for a company with a big brand name. if you're gonna do it, know the trade you're making and have a plan for when you've decided enough is enough.
PWC is a shithole. I unironically arrive and leave on time and the current senior who has been a diversity hire all his life and worked at the "big firms" has complained about me leaving on time and even asked the partners "Do you think HE (me) could do a better job than me?" to which one partner replied "Yes!". By the way PWC for past few years has been summoned to federal enquiries. I applied at PWC years ago and I am glad they didnt give me the job.
Haha good on you man! They sound like pieces of 💩
Modern office jobs are worse than sweatshops in the 1800s, they just aren't as physically exerting.
the tech corporate culture has gotten so out of hand that its starting to disrupt society, marriage and relationships even here in India. Not only do we have to put up with long work hours and a performance review cycle every 3 months but we also get lectured about woke non sense and feminism which has nothing to do with our work. Thinking of boycotting products from all big companies and supporting open source and other alternatives.
The woke nonsense will destroy india as it did to Japan, Korea, Detroit, NY and LA as well as other atlantic cities.
don't ever give them an inch. (as the argentine president says)
never trust a serious woke person. and always demand displays of non-wokeness from close friends.
the biggest metric you look for is offending woke sentiments. even if the person believes in equality , feminism etc.
Most corporate offices work you to death. I suggest live a frugal and minimalist lifestyle so you are not affected by the workload and you can quit at anytime
It’s amazing that pwc was voted one of the top places to work.
They pay 6 digits only benefit
Those lists are created by the companies on the list to promote working for the companies on the list. They have to be. It’s gotta be a scam.
I always take the "best places to work" lists with a grain of salt.
@@racaulk I take them with a salt truck.
I had a buddy who worked at EY and did a 100 hour work week during busy season. That means he was doing 60-80 hours during the other weeks.
And this was as a 1st year making around 57-60k/year with no stock/revenue share. He said he worked about 45 hours during non busy season
When you’re not a doctor or engineer this is the stupid shit you gotta put up with. I’m glad I work on a tangible product, I don’t need to justify my work with my hours in office, I hope I’ll never have to deal with this stupid BS
Here, where I work in Norway, people show up around lunch and leave 2-3 hours later. Most work at home, some even bring their pcs when they travel abroad for months and work a couple of hours a day.
Damn, thank you PWC for rejecting me
Not leaving until your manager does is a South Korean thing in business and there self deletion rates are horrendous. It just leads to people staying doing nothing really but not leaving for the optics.
Never work at a place with a stock ticker. Your job is always tied to that stock price and not your performance (and not even the optics bullshit). Stocks go down, layoffs happen. Not worth it.
The "orange press" is the perfect analogy.... Keep up the amazing content!
Thanks for all you do for us on your channel.
That's why I don't agree with installing apps on my personal devices and I rather they buy me a new device for that.
If the entry level salary was 200K it would be ok if they work you like a horse with high school games. But you make 40K and get treated like this? What's the point?
The point for some is that you serve your couple of years and then can land a better role elsewhere. Also in Consulting there can be an unwritten expectation that you use your previous employer when possible to work for whichever company you work for. Eg if someone from BCG landed a position at Walmart, they'd be expected to use BCG as much as possible for things. Trade off for a good WLB job with a good salary
@@sdal5427 "Eg if someone from BCG landed a position at Walmart, they'd be expected to use BCG as much as possible for things."
Can you explain.
@@sdal5427so bootlicking is a strategy for some
In accounting, having big four on your resume is similar to having an ivy League degree, lots of job positions will have big four experience preferred directly in the job listings, I did my time and it was miserable, but I have to admit. Finding jobs and interviews afterwards was much easier because of it being on my resume.
I just want to point out that a single person cannot know whether it would have been easier if they did something else.
To perform inference on causality, you need random assignment, multiple observations from two groups, and some type of treatment you can control. Otherwise, how do know it isn't latent variables like the person's work ethic and cultural conformance tendencies, rather than brand recognition?
Well said!
I worked for one of them for a total of 11 years, in two countries. There was definitely a lot of work involved but I didn’t mind that as I signed up for a salaried position with no set time really. What bothered me was when my utilization was low (happens due to seasonality sometimes and the projects), I still had to sit and pretend that I was busy until 6-7, and you were made to feel bad if you weren’t present. That and the weekly transcon travel for projects took its toll on me. I now have such a great work life balance at my new job, can’t even think of my old job without getting goosebumps. Not that it’s not a good professional experience, but make sure you pull out before you burn out
My brother worked for one of the big 4, in NYC, and can confirm it was horrible.
He had the flu once and they called him and chewed him out for not coming to work, even though he had a fever and was puking and everything.
PWC pay such terrible salaries I don't know why anyone works there. They'd have to be stupid, which explains this stupid behavior.
I love the old people who’ve been in the same dead end, entry level job for twenty to thirty years and get upset at new hires who value their own lives. These people are all over the service and hospitality industries.
I worked for a regional firm for a year and encountered a lot of this. Mind games, competitiveness, people talking behind your back, people having mental breakdowns and sobbing at work and at the client. Too much insanity to describe. I quit after working for a lead who wanted me to lie and bend rules and bitched to management when I didn’t. Have a much more chill job now for same pay and working on starting my own firm in the evenings at my own pace. I don’t know why public accounting attracts psychos, but it definitely does.
U r going to need to do a 10 part series.
I'm so thankful to be able to work from home and avoid most of the corporate nonsense. It also helps that I work for a pretty small company. There's still come cringy work culture stuff, but it's generally isolated a weekly meeting and the occasional "virtual happy hour" that's entirely optional.
Definitely have an internship at PwC starting very soon. I've heard about this culture, but apparently, it's a great resume booster.
I worked at PwC 2004-2006 in assurance. For most of 2005 I was on a terrible client who sucked at bookkeeping and we had real trouble auditing them. I worked 8-10 M-F and then came home Friday night (it was 100 miles away so we were on site M-F) and I worked 9-5 Saturday. Then left at 6:00 Monday morning to get to the client site by 8:00.
Having worked at PwC I think a lot of this started when Tim Ryan took over as managing partner, he started making cuts and phrasing them as new "opportunities." I left shortly after he took over, his fake smile can't hide how bad a leader he truly is. I met some great people there and not everyone has the attitude of you need to work 55 hours a week and they did care about improving you as a professional, but there were also so true a-holes too. I work at a smaller firm now, where we do have to work long hours in busy season, but it's a much better culture.
Sharing rooms can lead to unintended consequences. Maybe someone arranges to "room" with someone and has motives that could lead to harassment or even assault?
Very strange, this reads more like Japanese/Korean Business culture than anything I've had experience with in the US.
Baffles me that these are the same companies that do random team building and random extra activities that waste time for no reason, but also expect you to work more than 40 hours for free basically. I don't know what kind of work they even do here, but I don't think I've ever been busy enough to actually be working constantly 100% of the time I'm at work and not been able to get my work done in 40 hours.
Lmao my two roommates are both in consulting, and one at PWC specifically. Late nights are the norm, rarely see them log off before ~6, sometimes I'll even see them working until 9, 10, or one time even 11pm.
Meanwhile I'm in software so I hop off between 5-530 almost every day
When I worked at Koch a manager asked me if I was unhappy with my job because I never stayed late.
Always a fun listen... about a painful truths
Hey Man ,This is a 5th video i am watching from your channel... Thanks for this contents !
Worked for another big 4: same exact thing. Terrible working habits.
PWC will drop you for doing good work lol
Probably found another wage slave to do it for cheaper probably.
My managers at the restaurant I worked at hated me because I was really active about leaving as on time as possible because they would keep pushing and pushing. If I got my side and finishing work done on time, they would find any reason to keep me there. 😂 nope cya
I worked at Accenture Federal. I will honestly say the Federal side of the Big Four is not toxic. Mostly cuz as federal contractors they gotta follow federal labor laws or lose the contract. So that side of those businesses tend to be better managed. If you are ever asked to do overtime, atleast in my experience. they let you know a week in advance so you can make your arrangements. then it has to be approved by the Account Manager of the contract. I only experienced it once while working there, and they were doing everything to try to avoid having all of the teams on contract do OT. The commercial side of the company was basically everything in this video.. and a lot of us were glad we had our security clearances XD
The having to wait for the boss/owner to leave before u do...reminds me of when Stalin gave a speech...the audience all stood when he came to the podium and started clapping...problem was they didn't want to be 1st one to stop clapping so it went on for a long time....
Sounds like the State of the Union address.
Biden: “Is this thing on?” 🎤
Dems: 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I spent 4 years at PwC. No lies detected. I remember pulling an all nighter in the office. Went home at 5am to take a shower. Went to bed and was woken up by my partner asking where I was ... I said I overslept and went back into the office 30 minutes later.
Working until 7pm was the standard. It wasn't an issue when I was single and fresh out of college. Id never have that lifestyle now that im married with children
2 years back I have chose to join big 4 due to excitement, imagine after rejecting better offers and didn't interview for counter offers. Since my interview till the exit, I felt terrible about the process, HRs, management of projects, etc. Everyone from my project left already within few months after spending a year.
Taking a role with the big 4 was a big mistake. Lots of really really clever people, but super corporate. Was relieved when I got out after a year.
Make sure that TPS report is on my desk Monday morning, 8am, sharp. Ummmk, have a good weekend.
My former place of employment was very toxic but not in the way you described here. Hard work was actually discouraged. The employees acted like they were in junior high, there was so much drama. And management treated EVERYONE as if they needed a babysitter. There was preferential treatment, bullying and all sorts of nonsense going on all the time. Very high stress and high turnover job.
This is what life looks like without unions.
What a great video. Began my career at Arthur Andersen in 1989 and worked there for three years to get my CPA license. This was back in the days when there was a Big 8. Quite frankly it was pretty miserable the entire time. Your video is pretty spot on.
I have that same shirt Josh, I love Old Navy
If U work for a company all U owe them is what was on the job description/app. U should never feel guilty. Way back I worked for a lot of big retail/sales companies. 1 time 1 of them called me & said I was on a list to cover for ppl. who could not work that day. I never consented to the list nor did I know re to it. 2 companies tried to pull this on me. I refused to go in, hung up the phone, & went out to dinner with my parents. Good video.
Milton had such a wonderful job. They put him in the basement, away from everyone else. No one knows he is there. He can do whatever he wants all day. And still get paid for it.
He really had it made.
Until they fixed the glitch. Though, I will say this: I worked as a federal civilian for the military for several years. There was so little work to do there that I had to use my time to learn and study, which was fine. However, eventually I needed more and quit. It didn't help that the military office and IT policies were getting worse.
Although I think many Unions can be very corrupt, these people need to Unionize. There is a time and place for them and this time is probably now.
Former public accounting (not big 4) and now in industry. It's the most toxic environment imaginable and senior management brags about how toxic they are. So glad I got out of that hell hole.
The income potential at partner is what keeps all this insanity going. For most tenured partners at big 4, $1M annual is total comp. With so much upside at stake, survival becomes Mad Max Thunder-dome. In addition keep in mind that with the exception of chargability and sales at higher levels, all performance is subjective. This means the incentive manage perception is critical for reviews.
“Praise be” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You legit made me spit my coffee… Now I gotta go down and get changed! 😅😅🤣🤣🤣
Hey Josh- busy season is when we actually have client work that we charge. For some people busy season is around 3 or 4 months of the year (for tax its around 3/15 and 9/15) the other 8 months, unless specified, we aren't utilized so we literally just log on and log off. The goal of the 55 hours during busy season is to have a Yearly 78%utilization rate with the 8 months we arent billing
I had a buddy that said he worked a 100 hour week during busy season at EY and 60-70+ the other weeks. I think he said 45 during non busy season
I had a job offer at one of the big 4, but I turned them down since during the technical interviews I kept getting told they let employees use excess work hours towards a Friday off. In the last interview, the team manager acted like a slimmy asshole, and he let it slip that employees must prove they've earned their Friday off, even if they've more than 8 hours. I honestly was pissed since it felt I was being misled so much and that my time was wasted with all the interviews, but it prevented me from working there.
I try to tell people I work with that are seeking more responsibility to get noticed to STOP it! They are so worried they have this drive to be noticed if it leads to more money. It does not.
Now this is a good sposor/actual content ratio. Yay
I am in big4. Yes they make me work weekends atleast 1 week a month and there is no time limit to when calls are scheduled. I get back them at by not working outside of the meetings as the meetings tend to go on for hours at a time.