Just wanna say Randal that I'm impressed with your guest here . He expresses a moral earnestness that is manifestly driven by humanitarian compassion .
It was disappointing that there can't be any awareness to the legitimate reasons fellow believers supported Trump. Outside of the life issue and the "messaging" you misconstrued, there are long-standing philosophies and beliefs about how government should work that led some Christians to make a different choice. They aren't as stupid or evil as is justified by your sneers.
I didn't vote for Trump (0-3). But Democrats and their economic plans use debasement of the currency as a feature of their governance. That is what nearly ALL biblical prophets indicted Israel over. Debasement, even for social programs for the poor, is what Israel did.
Perhaps I’m clueless to those reasons, but the biggest reasons I’ve witnessed, over the last 9 years, is that trump legitimizes evangelicals hate. His ideas to “fix” anything, is to tear it apart, or make other people suffer. Fill me in for the reasons I’m missing.
Around 2003-2004, the Abu Ghraib torture scandal emerged, which was then followed by revelations of the CIA extrajudical detention and enhanced interrogation program, and for a while every Republican on the street (including my father who I swore was better than this) was arguing that torture is AOK, and that waterboarding isn't really torture. And some folks went to SERE to get waterboarded with those on the right changing their minds, and those on the left affirming that yes, this really is torture. It's when I learned that the United States are the baddies. At the time I couldn't explain my position well ( _Torture is the thing Darth Vader does to show he's really all that evil_ ) and would start a deep dive into ethical philosophy to understand why it's rightly and properly banned in the Hague Convention on the treatment of POWs (though apparently it's okay to torture spies, even though it's unnecessary and yields bad intel---I digress...) We human beings suck at politics, which is to say it's very easy for propaganda machines to manipulate the masses, and only small portion of us actually think about our own best interests and how to vote accordingly. So yes, this is going to spell the end of liberal democracy. We might figure out other ways to broadly distribute power but it's going to take some time and thought, and a society willing to try to implement it. The Great Experiment has failed, but then again, it was started in bad faith (and we can point to slavery and the lack of women's suffrage until the twentieth century to cite examples). The arc of the moral universe (or of history) is long but it bends towards justice... by way of consequences so terrible we swear to each other we never want to see them again. Maybe when we take such oaths this time around, we'll mean it for everyone down to the least of us.
I admit I checked out this video before the other one of the author's book but I will check it out after this. The author seems more bummed out than me!
This is my first time speaking publicly about this subject, really, so you’re probably sensing something more like hesitation-although I certainly am bummed. 😅
Sure, I understand. It's hard to even make a comment online without a MAGA coming on to tear you down. It is wise to be cautious and watch what one says. That's certainly happened to me.if
"Surviving" might be a bit melodramatic. I don't predict it will be any worse than it has been for the past four to eight years of dealing with evangelical trump worshipers (if you will pardon my own bit of melodramatic expression there). Still, we keep living and loving in light of Jesus, regardless of whatever regime is in power, as we always have as Christians.
@@inquisitiveferret5690 I'm a nursing student, in biology and anatomy we learn life begins at conception, so by definition, abortion ends a life, and I don't think anyone's life should be taken from them, I believe all should have equal opportunity to life!
@@Raisin22_ yes. Yes. I sympathize. But it isn't the simple. Life =\= personhood. But also, you tried to do a little slight of hand. You defined people's position(s) for them. Which is telling on your part. It's not so black and white. So I reiterate, you're anti-freedom and anti-choice.
Just wanna say Randal that I'm impressed with your guest here . He expresses a moral earnestness that is manifestly driven by humanitarian compassion .
It is going to be very hard for Christianity to be viewed positively in the US again after it's widespread support of Trump and the alt right.
Exactly. Which is why it is important to process, discuss, and act.
The alt right doesnt recieve support from american christians.
After 40 years I am eXvangelical, but hey, "once saved always saved" . I have no worries.
I know that some of my close relatives are Trump supporters. Now and then I think about writing them a letter...
I agree. Thank you so much for expressing my biblical objection so well. 🔥🙏🏽🔥
I share Jon's emotions and lack of optimism regarding a course reversal by American evangelicals
@randalrauser You're so lucky that you're Canadian.
@MichelleG.-et8yk No, he’s not. Canada has become unrecognizable under Trudeau. Thankfully, he’s be gone next fall.
It was disappointing that there can't be any awareness to the legitimate reasons fellow believers supported Trump. Outside of the life issue and the "messaging" you misconstrued, there are long-standing philosophies and beliefs about how government should work that led some Christians to make a different choice. They aren't as stupid or evil as is justified by your sneers.
What are your legitimate reasons for voting for Trump? (Geniunely asking)
I didn't vote for Trump (0-3). But Democrats and their economic plans use debasement of the currency as a feature of their governance. That is what nearly ALL biblical prophets indicted Israel over. Debasement, even for social programs for the poor, is what Israel did.
That is one of many...
Perhaps I’m clueless to those reasons, but the biggest reasons I’ve witnessed, over the last 9 years, is that trump legitimizes evangelicals hate.
His ideas to “fix” anything, is to tear it apart, or make other people suffer.
Fill me in for the reasons I’m missing.
Around 2003-2004, the Abu Ghraib torture scandal emerged, which was then followed by revelations of the CIA extrajudical detention and enhanced interrogation program, and for a while every Republican on the street (including my father who I swore was better than this) was arguing that torture is AOK, and that waterboarding isn't really torture. And some folks went to SERE to get waterboarded with those on the right changing their minds, and those on the left affirming that yes, this really is torture.
It's when I learned that the United States are the baddies.
At the time I couldn't explain my position well ( _Torture is the thing Darth Vader does to show he's really all that evil_ ) and would start a deep dive into ethical philosophy to understand why it's rightly and properly banned in the Hague Convention on the treatment of POWs (though apparently it's okay to torture spies, even though it's unnecessary and yields bad intel---I digress...)
We human beings suck at politics, which is to say it's very easy for propaganda machines to manipulate the masses, and only small portion of us actually think about our own best interests and how to vote accordingly. So yes, this is going to spell the end of liberal democracy. We might figure out other ways to broadly distribute power but it's going to take some time and thought, and a society willing to try to implement it. The Great Experiment has failed, but then again, it was started in bad faith (and we can point to slavery and the lack of women's suffrage until the twentieth century to cite examples).
The arc of the moral universe (or of history) is long but it bends towards justice... by way of consequences so terrible we swear to each other we never want to see them again. Maybe when we take such oaths this time around, we'll mean it for everyone down to the least of us.
I admit I checked out this video before the other one of the author's book but I will check it out after this. The author seems more bummed out than me!
This is my first time speaking publicly about this subject, really, so you’re probably sensing something more like hesitation-although I certainly am bummed. 😅
Sure, I understand. It's hard to even make a comment online without a MAGA coming on to tear you down. It is wise to be cautious and watch what one says. That's certainly happened to me.if
"Surviving" might be a bit melodramatic. I don't predict it will be any worse than it has been for the past four to eight years of dealing with evangelical trump worshipers (if you will pardon my own bit of melodramatic expression there). Still, we keep living and loving in light of Jesus, regardless of whatever regime is in power, as we always have as Christians.
So you're pro abortion
Yes!!!!!
Abortion is up to each state. , not the President.
So you're anti-choice and freedom?
@@inquisitiveferret5690 I'm a nursing student, in biology and anatomy we learn life begins at conception, so by definition, abortion ends a life, and I don't think anyone's life should be taken from them, I believe all should have equal opportunity to life!
@@Raisin22_ yes. Yes. I sympathize. But it isn't the simple. Life =\= personhood. But also, you tried to do a little slight of hand. You defined people's position(s) for them. Which is telling on your part. It's not so black and white.
So I reiterate, you're anti-freedom and anti-choice.