If this can be fixed please, The sound quality is not good .. not sure whats the issue, it’s just not clear! And that kicks in more clearly with the background music, its ruining the watch experience
I am watching this channel since 2019. I still cant believe the transformation from Petter making selfie videos from a bench in a park to full quality documentaries better than any other tv productions. Petter thanks for this content from a 30 year old avation enthusiast since a kid...
@@coritavanderburgh7675I agree. I’m here for the information and the storytelling. The older homemade videos on the channel are well worth watching. I’d be happy with less sophisticated productions. The research and clear explanations are the most important aspect.
@@MentourPilot Hi Petter, just to piggy back off the other comment - your MH370 documentary was absolutely incredible. Cannot compliment you and the team who produce these enough, they're world class. A huge and very well deserved "tack så mycket" from me in the UK for all the hard work you guys put in 😊
For obvious reasons, this movie brought to mind an old training video of Captain Warren Vanderburgh and American Airlines conducting a situational awareness training course. What it reminded me of most was that "you should be getting into the vertical and getting out of there *right now* if you are below the level of the surrounding terrain and you can't see out the cockpit window and that 'where are we, what's our clearance' conversation starts up." Waiting for the GPWS to go off is not necessary.
Maintenance crews are the unsung heroes of every air force. I’m not sure which air force you were in, but pilots like myself could never have done much flying without you guys. Thank you for being one of those that kept us airborne.
This terrible accident hits close to home. I was only 9 years old at the time, but I remember clearly my mum telling me that our neighbour’s, a young couple with their new born would not be coming home. RIP.
So Terribly sad. My neighbour didn't come home either. He left a pregnant wife and a little boy 😢 . Cedric's plane collided with another over what was then called Yugoslavia. He was going to join a ship that he worked on. Unfortunately they called him a week earlier.😢😢
The CVR from this flight is bone-chilling. The flight engineer knew something was wrong, but there was no sense of urgency from the captain and first officer whatsoever, even with the GPWS droning "pull up" in the background over and over again. It's honestly mystifying.
While I recognize the major error made by the ATC, frankly, if this had been a non-european crew, I wager we'd hear a lot more about bad decision-making by the captain as well as cliches regarding bad CRM and a culture of deference and so on (like korean air 801, for example).
@@gekud4812 to get in some European stereotypes, maybe it was the British tendency to hold composure and act calm that suppressed the sense of urgency. It really is difficult to understand why the captain chose to not pull up when the GPWS explicitly tells him to. The captain seems to be the one with the least situational awareness, too bad that he was the one flying.
I'm doing a TH-cam detox, but this is the one channel I refuse to give up. I love listening to your videos while doing things around the house or commuting.
The parents of a dear friend of mine were on this flight. Heartbreaking and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was an overseas rep for a tour operator, I had worked in Tangiers, Ibiza and then Malaga. Another dear friend was the Station Manager in Malaga for Dan Air and he was sent to Tenerife to assist with the search and recovery process. He said it was the worst experience of his life saying “there are something’s you just can’t unsee”. Thankfully I never had to experience a missing or downed flight in the 10yrs I worked in tourism. However, I did witness the Spantax flight that crashed in Malaga in September 1982. I was on my way driving from Torremolinos - Malaga when I saw the disastrous aborted takeoff. I was almost in its flight/crash path. Scariest sight I’ve ever seen. Thank you so much for your concise reporting of these incidents.
What a coincidence Petter! I was only this week looking at a memorial in our local cemetery here in Manchester to those who died in this tragic accident. Superb presentation, as ever. All the best - Paul
It's astounding that radars weren't installed until three years after the biggest aviation accident ever occurred due to foggy weather (it happened on the ground, though). I adore Mediterranean culture, but perhaps this preventable catastrophe was also caused by the "We will do it tomorrow" mentality. Excellent video as usual, many thanks.
This was in 1980. The Linate disaster was in 2001, where the ground radar had been at the airport still in the boxes for over a year without getting installed. More Mediterranean "we will do it tomorrow". I love the Mediterranean cultures and ppl, but they really could do well to learn faster from previous problems. Same with the bridge collapse in Genoa and so many other preventable disasters around the Mediterranean.
regarding the single missed letter thing... I feel like the incident where pilots flew west into the amazon rainforest instead of north because of the lack of a decimal point would claim that ..
Incredible how a single missed letter could trigger such a chain of events. This perfectly highlights the razor-thin margins in aviation safety and the critical role of precise communication. Truly a case study in the importance of attention to detail.
I think it's time a digital text/computer generated communications system be implemented. The problem of several aircraft trying to talk simultaneously would be eliminated and poor English speaking controllers being misunderstood. Simplex communications is so obsolete. Our everyday cell phones allow duplex communications.
Safety must never depend on every syllable of a radio transmission being understood correctly. That missing 's' was only one of the mistakes that all had to happen to make this crash possible. If the pilot had remembered how high the highest nearby mountain was, he could have just gone higher than that. Or done any of several other things differently instead of assuming the controller had made no mistakes.
“Turns” is a horrible term to use in that situation. The phraseology was bound to kill someone at some point and was flawed from the start. Counterclockwise is a much better term to describe a holding pattern
While not life-threatening, a colleague of mine once issued a bug fix for a computer program and the user reported back that the fix had been installed and it was not working. My colleague spent a few hours looking into it and couldn't see what could fail so got back to the user who said "Oh, I should have typed that it was now working". A one letter mistake again!
It's genuinely shocking how high your content quality is and how short of a production cycle you have. I believe you are top of your class in this type of content, genuinely I can't think of a single other content creator near your level of quality. Keep it up, all of your team deserves all of the success that i hope continues to grow for you and your team.
The quality of the videos, the way Petter narates and the information shared is incredible. Makes you feel that you are sitting in the cockpit with the crew and feeling the situation first-hand. Simply brilliant!
I remember this tragic accident very well. Sadly one of the pupils at my school lost both parents on it. Very sad, I often think of him all these years later.
i have a customer who is a retired pilot, from Alaska, and it's great that I can understand the principles of aviation well enough to enjoy his own personal experiences. One of the things we talked about was that the early days of GPS did not have altitude references, so CFIT was still a hazard.
It's interesting how lack of specificity in speech causes so many accidents. Some think it's unnecessary but as you have shown here, having technical and specific terms, and the need to use them correctly, can and will save lives and insure the process is done correctly. Thank you, Peter for doing these.
What I have learned from flying is that any time I am confused about where i am going around possible terrain and in low visibility the FIRST thing I will do is immediately climb as high as I can until I feel comfortable and only then will i start trying to navigate. Navigate after aviate.
Its not that surprising though. Tenerife exploded as a tourist destination with the jet age. Having an underequipped airport between two mountain ranges that was always foggy didn't help (both this and the 77 crash and also two further multifatal crashes previously were at least partly due to weather). Tenerife south was built just before this crash and now takes the bulk of flights
I’m rarely this early, perhaps you’ll read this; I like how you always emphasise how and what we’ve learned from said accident, personally I’m a abstract and associative thinker so over the years these accident reports spun a web of accidents and subsequent innovations creating a sort of technology tree or timeline. If I may be so bold I think this might be a very attractive video format, perhaps more longform then the regular format, where you instead of singling out a single accident you pick a technology and show it’s evolution through the lessens we’ve learned. This might also be the chance to re-visit older work, perhaps with new insight, different framing or simply better production. Anyway, I’m a big fan; to me this isn’t just about aviation but far more multidisciplinary and I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting in. Thank you, wholeheartedly!
Dan Air and the 727 has a very special place in my heart, my first ever flight was with them in a 727. It changed my life, upon returning home I began flying lessons. A few years later I flew on that same 727 with them, I visited the flight deck and spent the rest of the flight (from the Mediterranean to Gatwick) in the jump seat. It was a brilliant end to a great holiday. Yesterday, I was officially informed that my medical has been pulled. Unless I get a kidney transplant and a year of stability my pilot days are over, in real life, I am flying the 737-800 having been trained by Petter and Ben on their wonderful course.
Reminds me of the old adage: Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself." Thanks for posting.. Excellent content - as always.
I am not a pilot, but i do love your fact managment analysis!! As a lawyer we too have to fact manage and watching your programme, given the outcome is often tragic, but not always, is a visceral reminder of what precise fact management is a skill that must be learnt to the highest standards. I learn something every time I watch your programmes. Thank you.
I think what I'm really obsessed with in aviation, as someone who nearly never flies, is the communication. There’s so much to learn about how humans think and communicate in these videos. You did such a good job painting the picture here... The 18:25 (ish) diagram of what the controller said vs what he meant is so clarifying and chilling... and then the pilots straight after, clearly not really understanding the conflicting instructions but trying to follow them anyway... the pilots sitting discussing the hold not making sense, knowing the controller couldn't see what they were doing... Painful, with hindsight. I remember reading comments asking why you wouldn't turn in your video of the terrain escape manoeuvre in the simulator - I feel like this is a good example of why that isn’t the thing to do. It feels like the pilots all had different mental pictures of what was going on, and there just isn’t time to figure that out and work out which of them (if any) is right. Thank you again for making these! The effort and care that goes into them from the whole team is so clear ❤
My first air flight was when I was 12, back in 1971, on the 707 and 727. That 727 seemed so big I couldn't imagine anything could be larger. Now, at 65, we safely flew to Rome, Italy. The plane was a "little" larger than that ole' 727. It was a safe trip for us. God bless you pilots. You take a burden that most couldn't imagine and carry us safely. Watching these videos has made me fell safer when I fly. God bless you too, Mentour Pilot.
Hi Petter, Thank you so much. With the operations and process engineering background, and some aviation, I really like when you dig down into that and how all the parts mesh, or don't, in these incidents. I think people generally don't understand how important details are, and especially how the many details need to mesh together in certain ways. It been my experience that that is where there are the most problems because one group doesn't think ahead as to how their work affects the next group, and the overall goal. I've also found that it's rarely outright greed but individual laziness and carelessness . The natural thing is for people to take the path of least resistance. that compounds the lack of connection between the details. Ultimately any business requires situational awareness from each employee in achieving the details and how they combine to make the bigger picture. It does help if the reason for why something is set a certain way s clear to the person working on it, and that they can ask about something with no fear of poor response. Everything requires that for success. That is also why English is supposed to be the universal aviation language. I think in some regions they don't understand that speaking the local language to a local flight means that other pilots then have fewer clues as to what is going on in a situation like this. I do know of some ATC recordings that show Chinese pilots with not enough command of English to understand ATC (one at the multi layered procedural action Kennedy is rather notable), and there are plenty of others. Please clarify "slippery" as describing modern aircraft. Less resistance along the outer fuselage skin?
13:40 he says that the older aircraft had "much less effective wings", so I infer that "slippery" means modern wings produce less drag, making it harder to decelarate
I have watched so many of your excellent videos Petter that I now know the immediate procedure to follow in a plane when the ground proximity warning sounds and I’m not a pilot. 😂
According to Wiki, they were acquired on unfavourable leases, were quite old and costly to operate by the beginning of the 1990s and consequently hampered the companies ability to upgrade its fleet. Also Dan-Air never integrated with any tour operators, so when they started setting up their own Airlines, Dan-Air ended up being pushed out of the market.
I was born in 1977, the year of the most devastating aviation disaster ever, the Tenerife Accident, as mentioned in the video. This kinda always resonated with me, I wanted to help that this never happens again, make a difference. I became a pilot, completed training for this profession in 1999, got hired in 2000, and I'm at the company that hired me back then still, now as deputy safety manager additionally to my regular workspace as part of some well trained flight crews. This is all because of people who care, people with a vision, and the will to see it through. I find myself in a lot of Petter's statements and in his dedication to his work, I truly understand where he's coming from and appreciate every single video posted, many of which I play during meetings, trainings and hotel layovers with fellow crew members, by the way. The only thing I'm sad about is that I've never had the chance to fly with this guy in the sim, where he may be the instructor or just the one sitting next to me, doesn't matter. I feel that I've really missed out on this. I'd loved to see him work in the actual aircraft, as I'm sure I would have found some inspiration or gotten a learning experience to support my personal development. Thank you for everything, Petter. It is nice to see that I don't have to rely on being my own inspiration or seek far and wide, as long as you're there. o7
I have told everyone i know about how great this channel is. Very interesting and informative about what guess on in the cockpit. Honestly i never knew that much was going on.
@@stevemawer848 If you're referring to the low-volume backing music, I've never experienced a problem with it on this channel so far. I'm personally a fan of the music choices and the lack of dynamic compression - as usually seen in modern video ads that turn the volume to 11.
The improvement in video quality over time is incredible. You create content that not only gives goosebumps but also explains a lot of topics in the simplest and most engaging way. You are the TH-camr who sparked my interest in aviation, and I will soon make it my career. Thank you, Petter!
We were in Tenerife about a year later. Part of the fuselage was still visible from the road heading up Teide. I was 21 at the time and this memory still haunts me.
I remember watching your video about terrain escape maneuvers. In this story I see the origins of a lot of that. Altitude loss due to bank angle. Not pitching up. TO/GA instead of firewalling the engines. The modern concept seems to be "wings level and climb like a fighter jet." I may be wrong but I think this might have saved the flight. Let's never forget that procedures like the terrain escape maneuver are written in blood. Thank you for the video, Petter and team. Well done as always. RIP to the souls lost.
I made a comment on a recent video about an accident, making a suggestion that showing these old accidents that would be very nearly impossible to happen today could make frightened flyers more scared I thought in that one that Petter didn’t do a great job of connecting the lessons learned in that accident to why it would be almost impossible today. so, i want to acknowledge that in this video i think he did a really great job of explaining how todays planes and pilot training vastly increases the safety of flying and makes some accidents, like this one, nearly impossible.
I worked in a power plant for 42 years. While mistakes in our work environment would be unlikely to result in fatalities, we still had a mantra for pre-job briefings, "It's easier to ask questions now, than to give answers later." So much grief can be avoided by aggressively clearing up the things that don't make sense at the beginning of the task.
This crash happened at Tenerife North Airport, its same airport as the Tenerife disaster, its shocking how that airport was allowed to operate because of its weather down right dangerous!
@@marcellkovacs5452 There's a good reason why most flights go to tenerife south, basically only couple of local spanish low cost airlines use it, hard to see an international carrier landing north.
CFIT accidents always make my skin crawl. I cannot beging to imagine the dread the pilots must feel in the moments leading up to those events, and it's heartbreaking how these events always are always so close to not being catastrophic.
I worked for Dan Air Crewing when this accident happened. One of the cabin nearly missed this flight because of a traffic jam and when I spoke to her as she checked in she was so relieved to able to fly ……… sliding doors and fate is a tough mistress.
This is a tragic story that highlights the importance of clear communication and robust procedures in aviation. The simple misunderstanding of "turn" versus "turns" is such a stark reminder of how small errors can escalate in high-stakes environments. It’s incredible how much aviation safety has evolved because of lessons like these-pilots today are trained so thoroughly to avoid similar situations. The emphasis on better GPWS training and situational awareness is a testament to how the industry learns and adapts. A sobering but essential story to reflect on.
So.. - sudden unpublished proc - lack of clarification on understading for both pilot and ATC - loss of situational awareness (position) - missed or lack of GPWS escape manuver. Its sad to know that aviation safety are mostly written in blood. But also appreciate and always respect the analysis and recommendation that comes from this. Awesome video peter 👍 iam learning a lot from your channel
"A disaster is nearly always caused by a series of events" Unfortunately... it often takes a disaster for people to take things more seriously and take more action to prevent.
I remember this accident particularly well as in 1980 I had had my pilot's licence for just over a year. Our group-owned dH Chipmunk was based at Manchester Barton (EGCB) but I often flew into Manchester International (EGCC) or obtained direct Barton to Crewe VFR zone crossing clearances from EGCC ATC back then when it wasn't anything like as busy as now. About 15 or more years ago a group of us in our local pub were talking 'flying' when a chap who looked to be in his mid 20s came over and asked if we remembered this accident, as his father had been the captain. I asked him his surname which confirmed it was the same as that of the captain. The accident had happened when he was very young but it had devastated his family, he said. Not just the loss of his father, but it put great financial strain on them as Dan Air was apparently not in a position to pay them much in the way of compensation. An excellent video, Mentour as usual. Your graphics of the Tenerife approach made it all very clear. Incidentally I remember when the first generation GPWS came into use; aircraft being vectored for runway 24 at Manchester and descending LH downwind over the Peak District would sometimes get a spurious GPWS warning if the system detected an excessive closure rate with the ground as the aircraft descended while passing over a steep-sided hill! ("Lufthansa 134 descend to 2,500 feet QNH". "Ah, OK, we're up at 6 thousand now having just got a GPWS alert"). Vince C
Wow so tragic, glad we have GPS and advanced radar today. Amazing just one word initiated the sequence. Yes, we should speak up. Never should have that feeling in your stomach.
I’m an engineer and have worked on several incident investigations. What stuns me is the focus from national investigation bodies seems to be protecting their fellow countrymen/women and not focusing on the genuine root causes and associated procedural improvements that will be necessary. Would it not be more sensible to have independent investigation bodies?
Whoever does the graphics to your script is a treasure... If you do it, blimey, and well done. Like all aviation nutters we are extremely sensitive to errors. Every Hollywood movie mucks it up. Taking off in a 707. Climbing in a DC10 etc....(At the most basic). These are done so well.
This horrible Tenerife Disaster was sadly, but understandably always in the "shadow" of the "Big" Tenerife Disaster three years earlier. But it is really worth to be remembered. Therefore thank you very much for picking it up and analyzing it!👍 First and scariest: Three years after the "Big" Tenerife Disaster Los Rodeos had still no Radar!!! Shocking and unbelievable for everyone who knows something about the "Big" Tenerife Disaster. At an Airport for which this wasn´t the first Crash but the fifth!!! - Unbelievable! Shocking! Then: The ATC performance was simply poor, especially taking into consideration that the ATC was well aware about the high terrain nearby and that he had no Radar to locate the exact position of the Aircraft. Then of course what Petter mentioned rightfully in the video as most important lesson to learn from this tragedy: Don´t say "Roger" when you mean: "I don´t understand what you want me to do". Not in your common daily life and especially not when being a Pilot fllying an Aircraft! And last but not least: Flying in a thick, dense cloud nearby high terrain, directed by an obsucre ATC isn´t obviously a good idea at all. So get out of it as quick as possible! Don´t wait for the "Pull up" instruction to sound! Get out of it and then sort the problem out or divert to another airport! - The second very important lesson to learn from this crash. And of course the third very important lesson: Equip Airports like Los Rodeos with Radar or shut them down! RIP to the victims of this totally avoidable Disaster! May they rest in Peace!
The first time I flew was on Dan Air. Wasn't a package holiday, but return flights from Gatwick to Munich. Just before Christmas (the family were going to Germany to celebrate with my eldest sister who lives there). Not long before landing we had the most dreadful case of turbulence, which started with a sheer drop lasting a few seconds. My brother-in-law was queuing at the loo at that moment and he ended up on his hands and knees. He crawled back to his seat, which was the centre one in our row. Unfortunately for him, my mum was on the aisle seat and was a terrified flyer. We had to unpeel her hands from the arm (we were being thrown around, side to side at the time) and eventually get her into the middle seat. The captain didn't do the reassuring chat thing, he just yelled at everyone to sit down and do out seatbelts up, and ended up with "Girls! Sit down!" at the cabin crew. Fair play though, we got there in one piece!
@@MentourPilot pls make Indian Airlines flight 257.... Trust me, you will see one of the biggest pilot negligences you would have ever seen in an aircraft type you yourself fly..... Also there aren't any good videos regarding it ....
I remember this accident well. The Captain was Arthur John Whelan, a very well respected pilot with a shock of red hair. So much so that he was fondly known as Red Whelan. A pity that your crew depiction didn’t reflect that. Other than that great work.
I'm British & was born a few months before this happened. I'm pretty sure I remember my dad talking about it when I was a kid. I think the worst part about it was the Captain not being properly trained in the terrain escape manoeuvre as it seems to me it's a basic but vital crash prevention procedure that all pilots should know. Even I'd know to pull up, add throttle & level wings, just from watching these videos.
My mom flew from England to Switzerland with Dan Air, she was surprised I had heard of them - and not happy when she found out why I knew about them, YT air crash vids 'cos they're in quite a few! Her plane had problems too, engine smoke in the cabin I think?
Although the exact transcript is not shown, here are a few thoughts about ATC. You do not issue a holding clx just a minute or so before the aircraft arrives at a fix, even more so if the hold is not published. You must “clear” an aircraft into a hold, here it sounds like ATC is just describing a hold. You should issue an EAC time. You should wait until the turbo prop reports at 4T before clearing another aircraft to 5T. (probable differing descent rates, no guarantee of 1T separation) Many lessons in this vid. Good job Petr!
Tenerife has had it's share off infamous aviation events. What's truly sad is the typical and ongoing human behavior that a change will only occur and be implemented after catastrophe happened first. In other words, the deficiencies were all know nothing was done.
As usual, I'm impressed with the visuals of this documentary! They really aid what you are explaining and give such a good, fitting feel to the whole video. I'm honestly surprised about the amount of major incidents around the north airport on Tenerife - didn't know about those before - and I can hardly image how scary and unsettling it would be to try to find your way around these confusing instructions with barely any visibility. It's always good to hear that there are many many things in place to prevent such incidents today - and I'm also glad that there's the southern airport now, too. Went there a few years back and it was a smooth ride :) Thanks for these videos and the impressive details you go into, explaining the chain of events! (and hello from Discord!
Thank you! I love hearing from my Discord crew! Yes, I’ve flown in to the south airport a few times but it has its own set of issues in the form of wind-shears.. much better though
Dan-Air flight 1008 broke The Golden Rule of Aviation: 1) Aviate 2) Navigate 3) Communicate And at least ONE of the Flight Crew ought to have been aviating, while the other one tried to Navigate AND Communicate with ATC to understand what the clearance was and wasn't… Tragic.
Petter you tell stories so well! I was not familiar with this mishap so it was a real cliff-hanger for me. When the story reached the point of the captain’s remark about heading toward higher ground and you didn’t say he pitched up I thought, “Oh no no no he’s going to turn right,” and sure enough, that’s what happened. It’s that sort of narrative talent that makes your videos so compelling and effective. Great job!
I love this channel, and this series is fascinating. Your explanations of various aspects of flight are very detailed, very easy to understand, and very well spoken. Thank you so much!
My uncle used to service Dan-Air planes at Lasham airfield in Hampshire in 1980. I didn’t know about this crash and he’s passed away now but I’ll ask his daughter, my cousin, if he’d ever mentioned this event.
I remember visiting Tenerife North just before the terrible runway crash or 1977 and watching aircraft circle in and out of cloud at low level between the mountains. It looked extremely hazardous I thought a the time.
Dan Air 727 was the first aircraft i ever flew on back in the late 80s. Love a 727 it just looks so good...fantastic content and very well-made video top work
9:49 Petter, with how amazing you and your team are at producing these videos, I find that I'm also always waiting for your incredible transitions into your sponsorship section. Thank you for your creative mannerisms. Dios les bendiga.
There is a lot more to this accident, than was published here, there was severe lack of CRM between two of the Pilots, and from Memory the Flight Engineer was called out on Standby that morning for this flight,and NOT happy! how do i know this? i worked in Crew Control For Dan Air! Previous to that at Lakers Airways, and after at Virgin Atlantic for 27 years, within the Crew Logistic departments, also not really commentated on, but a HUGE factor, was the Air Traffic controllers speaking in Spanish to any Aircraft that spoke Spanish, and a reluctance to speak English at all, TFN was a dreadful place, and when all operations went south to TFS, and English was mandatary, things got a lot better
Just got back from Tenerife, most airlines use the south airport and I must say it's a beautiful approach, seeing Teide tower over you from the ocean to the top.
Tenerife South was available in April 1980, when this crash happened, it opened in November 1979. So the question is why this flight was directed to Los Rodeos.
Speaking of crashes just short of the top of a mountain, you might want to cover the January 16, 1962 crash of an off-course B-47 into Wright Peak in New York state. I climbed to the crash site, which is only about 100 feet shy of the top. There was still wreckage there. There is a 2023 book on the crash called _Wright Peak Elegy._
Actually, the CVR cuts out in the middle of the flight engineer’s second exclamation, “BANK ANGLE! BANK ANG-!” And that’s what makes it so difficult to listen to: the knowledge that everybody died in that instant. There one second and gone the next.
From the moment of the pull up warning to the crash it was only about 20 seconds. It all happened extremely fast. The pilots were reacting more than thinking. The captain most likely was already suspicious that they were heading the wrong way and the alarm just confirmed those suspicions. Unfortunately the FO and FE just didn’t have enough time to talk it out and figure out a better solution
It's also relevant that GPS was in 1980 still a classified capability of the U.S. military, not released to the public until after the Soviet shootdown of KAL-007. A result of that tragedy was that President Reagan unilaterally decided to declassify the program and make it available to all commercial airlines.
Definitely some lessons here that apply to my field - I got confused a few days ago by an unclear GPS direction, was in a rush and didn’t double check, and long story short I’m very lucky that I didn’t damage anything as I backed my semi 3 miles down a curvy road in the dark to escape. Always double check, and don’t rush - words to live by.
No radar at Tenerife in 1980? After such terrible accidents, and given the unpredictable weather, one would think the nations would have come together by then to purchase the most advanced radar available.
Thanks for the upload. The Boeing 727 was my first experience in flying, many years ago of course but I can still remember my slightly nervous feeling on take off. Short haul BNE - SYD. (Australia) First long haul was the great VC10.
This was much more than a crash investigation, it was aviation history as well. I loved how there were 'common' tolarences because the plane designs weren't too effective. I had no idea there were such things going on. And I wonder what else is currently 'normal', but is actually not that normal, because the tech isn't as effective yet.. another epic Mentour Pilot video ❤
If an airport has a poor record like Los Rodeos it is very likely that there is something wrong with the management and you should consider this playing a roll in ANY of the accidents.
Petter, you once mentioned that you won't be doing Germanwings 9525 tragedy. There is however one aspect of this case which I find curious. How the aviation industry deals with mental health issues? Should it be more tight, or maybe on the contrary, a more lenient approach would actually help prevent such tragedies?
The one thing I found intriguing was the multi-lingual discussions on radio. If the Dan-Air pilot understood the radio chatter, it would have given them much greater situational awareness. It would be good to see an aviators standard language. While it is usually English, if we had an artificial language dedicated to the industry that is much easier to learn than English or even Esperanto itself, would the skies be safer?
We already have the standard declarations for everything in English. It's just that everyone insists on using what they want to and "declaring an emergency".
I hope they've fixed that place now. It's such a dreadful airport the way it was then. I can't believe they didn't even have radar!? Radar was widely available then. It's also the site of the worst accident in history when two 747s collided on the runway
Maybe overly sensitive today, but this story really moved me. 😢 Thank you as usual for a superior presentation of the facts and how the human mind works.
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I love your videos, very detailed, ive learned soo much about aviation
If this can be fixed please, The sound quality is not good .. not sure whats the issue, it’s just not clear!
And that kicks in more clearly with the background music, its ruining the watch experience
Have you ever revisited the history of TAM 402. Reverse got deployed during take off!
I am watching this channel since 2019. I still cant believe the transformation from Petter making selfie videos from a bench in a park to full quality documentaries better than any other tv productions. Petter thanks for this content from a 30 year old avation enthusiast since a kid...
Wow, thanks! I’m so happy you are appreciating the work we put in!
Same here. Though I do miss the poodles. 😂
@coritavanderburgh7675 the poodles were great
@@coritavanderburgh7675I agree. I’m here for the information and the storytelling. The older homemade videos on the channel are well worth watching. I’d be happy with less sophisticated productions. The research and clear explanations are the most important aspect.
@@MentourPilot Hi Petter, just to piggy back off the other comment - your MH370 documentary was absolutely incredible.
Cannot compliment you and the team who produce these enough, they're world class. A huge and very well deserved "tack så mycket" from me in the UK for all the hard work you guys put in 😊
For obvious reasons, this movie brought to mind an old training video of Captain Warren Vanderburgh and American Airlines conducting a situational awareness training course.
What it reminded me of most was that "you should be getting into the vertical and getting out of there *right now* if you are below the level of the surrounding terrain and you can't see out the cockpit window and that 'where are we, what's our clearance' conversation starts up." Waiting for the GPWS to go off is not necessary.
In aircraft maintenance in the Air Force I learned it was better to ask a stupid question than to have to answer for a stupid mistake.
Absolutely!
@@MentourPilotfantastic!
Maintenance crews are the unsung heroes of every air force. I’m not sure which air force you were in, but pilots like myself could never have done much flying without you guys. Thank you for being one of those that kept us airborne.
That goes for any aspect of life
That goes for any profession in my opinion and that setimate should be taught in schools too.
This terrible accident hits close to home. I was only 9 years old at the time, but I remember clearly my mum telling me that our neighbour’s, a young couple with their new born would not be coming home. RIP.
Oh, that’s terrible.. 😞
So Terribly sad. My neighbour didn't come home either. He left a pregnant wife and a little boy 😢 . Cedric's plane collided with another over what was then called Yugoslavia. He was going to join a ship that he worked on. Unfortunately they called him a week earlier.😢😢
Dreadful stories. Breaks my heart to read them, especially when such disasters are probably unnecessary.
@@angelaberni8873Zagreb
The CVR from this flight is bone-chilling. The flight engineer knew something was wrong, but there was no sense of urgency from the captain and first officer whatsoever, even with the GPWS droning "pull up" in the background over and over again. It's honestly mystifying.
Yep.. I agree
@@MentourPilotthe pilots were lost
While I recognize the major error made by the ATC, frankly, if this had been a non-european crew, I wager we'd hear a lot more about bad decision-making by the captain as well as cliches regarding bad CRM and a culture of deference and so on (like korean air 801, for example).
@@gekud4812 to get in some European stereotypes, maybe it was the British tendency to hold composure and act calm that suppressed the sense of urgency. It really is difficult to understand why the captain chose to not pull up when the GPWS explicitly tells him to. The captain seems to be the one with the least situational awareness, too bad that he was the one flying.
I still want to know why the GPWS audio changes pitch during the CVR recording. It just bugs me.
I'm doing a TH-cam detox, but this is the one channel I refuse to give up. I love listening to your videos while doing things around the house or commuting.
That’s great to hear! Thank you for being here 💕
I bet this one made for a jolly commute!
The parents of a dear friend of mine were on this flight. Heartbreaking and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was an overseas rep for a tour operator, I had worked in Tangiers, Ibiza and then Malaga. Another dear friend was the Station Manager in Malaga for Dan Air and he was sent to Tenerife to assist with the search and recovery process. He said it was the worst experience of his life saying “there are something’s you just can’t unsee”. Thankfully I never had to experience a missing or downed flight in the 10yrs I worked in tourism. However, I did witness the Spantax flight that crashed in Malaga in September 1982. I was on my way driving from Torremolinos - Malaga when I saw the disastrous aborted takeoff. I was almost in its flight/crash path. Scariest sight I’ve ever seen. Thank you so much for your concise reporting of these incidents.
Terrible che no me lo puedo ni imaginar lo de Spantax
@@noticiasinmundicias Spantax is a story in its one. Maybe Petter will tell it.
What a coincidence Petter! I was only this week looking at a memorial in our local cemetery here in Manchester to those who died in this tragic accident. Superb presentation, as ever. All the best - Paul
Thank you!
It's astounding that radars weren't installed until three years after the biggest aviation accident ever occurred due to foggy weather (it happened on the ground, though). I adore Mediterranean culture, but perhaps this preventable catastrophe was also caused by the "We will do it tomorrow" mentality. Excellent video as usual, many thanks.
Yeah… I would agree
(in)Famous spanish "Mañana"...
That's a sad and very simplistic cliche
This was in 1980. The Linate disaster was in 2001, where the ground radar had been at the airport still in the boxes for over a year without getting installed. More Mediterranean "we will do it tomorrow". I love the Mediterranean cultures and ppl, but they really could do well to learn faster from previous problems. Same with the bridge collapse in Genoa and so many other preventable disasters around the Mediterranean.
@@dfuher968 They're referring to the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster
regarding the single missed letter thing... I feel like the incident where pilots flew west into the amazon rainforest instead of north because of the lack of a decimal point would claim that ..
that's Varig 268
And the sun in their eyes!!
@@TheRogey1 Indeed. Petter did a very informative video about it at this channel.
Great episode!! Loved that one.
Incredible how a single missed letter could trigger such a chain of events. This perfectly highlights the razor-thin margins in aviation safety and the critical role of precise communication. Truly a case study in the importance of attention to detail.
Yep, and the importance of Speaking Up, when unsure about a clearance.
I think it's time a digital text/computer generated communications system be implemented. The problem of several aircraft trying to talk simultaneously would be eliminated and poor English speaking controllers being misunderstood. Simplex communications is so obsolete. Our everyday cell phones allow duplex communications.
Safety must never depend on every syllable of a radio transmission being understood correctly. That missing 's' was only one of the mistakes that all had to happen to make this crash possible. If the pilot had remembered how high the highest nearby mountain was, he could have just gone higher than that. Or done any of several other things differently instead of assuming the controller had made no mistakes.
“Turns” is a horrible term to use in that situation. The phraseology was bound to kill someone at some point and was flawed from the start. Counterclockwise is a much better term to describe a holding pattern
While not life-threatening, a colleague of mine once issued a bug fix for a computer program and the user reported back that the fix had been installed and it was not working. My colleague spent a few hours looking into it and couldn't see what could fail so got back to the user who said "Oh, I should have typed that it was now working". A one letter mistake again!
This is one of the highest quality channels around, somehow Mr. Pilot seems to make each episode better. Keep up the good work!👍
Wow, thanks! That’s what we are trying to do
@@MentourPilot No, Petter, you're not trying; you're DOING it. Excellent, as always.
It's genuinely shocking how high your content quality is and how short of a production cycle you have. I believe you are top of your class in this type of content, genuinely I can't think of a single other content creator near your level of quality. Keep it up, all of your team deserves all of the success that i hope continues to grow for you and your team.
The quality of the videos, the way Petter narates and the information shared is incredible. Makes you feel that you are sitting in the cockpit with the crew and feeling the situation first-hand. Simply brilliant!
I remember this tragic accident very well.
Sadly one of the pupils at my school lost both parents on it.
Very sad, I often think of him all these years later.
i have a customer who is a retired pilot, from Alaska, and it's great that I can understand the principles of aviation well enough to enjoy his own personal experiences.
One of the things we talked about was that the early days of GPS did not have altitude references, so CFIT was still a hazard.
It's interesting how lack of specificity in speech causes so many accidents. Some think it's unnecessary but as you have shown here, having technical and specific terms, and the need to use them correctly, can and will save lives and insure the process is done correctly. Thank you, Peter for doing these.
The human reaction to poor speech is usually "but you knew what I meant!". If we had that level of understanding there'd be no need to say anything!
What I have learned from flying is that any time I am confused about where i am going around possible terrain and in low visibility the FIRST thing I will do is immediately climb as high as I can until I feel comfortable and only then will i start trying to navigate. Navigate after aviate.
You might climb right into a big jet in the holding pattern above you.
Tenerife feels cursed honestly, the amount of deadly accidents there is, scary.
Its not that surprising though. Tenerife exploded as a tourist destination with the jet age. Having an underequipped airport between two mountain ranges that was always foggy didn't help (both this and the 77 crash and also two further multifatal crashes previously were at least partly due to weather). Tenerife south was built just before this crash and now takes the bulk of flights
I’m rarely this early, perhaps you’ll read this; I like how you always emphasise how and what we’ve learned from said accident, personally I’m a abstract and associative thinker so over the years these accident reports spun a web of accidents and subsequent innovations creating a sort of technology tree or timeline.
If I may be so bold I think this might be a very attractive video format, perhaps more longform then the regular format, where you instead of singling out a single accident you pick a technology and show it’s evolution through the lessens we’ve learned. This might also be the chance to re-visit older work, perhaps with new insight, different framing or simply better production.
Anyway, I’m a big fan; to me this isn’t just about aviation but far more multidisciplinary and I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting in. Thank you, wholeheartedly!
Dan Air and the 727 has a very special place in my heart, my first ever flight was with them in a 727. It changed my life, upon returning home I began flying lessons. A few years later I flew on that same 727 with them, I visited the flight deck and spent the rest of the flight (from the Mediterranean to Gatwick) in the jump seat. It was a brilliant end to a great holiday. Yesterday, I was officially informed that my medical has been pulled. Unless I get a kidney transplant and a year of stability my pilot days are over, in real life, I am flying the 737-800 having been trained by Petter and Ben on their wonderful course.
All the best for you!🍀🍀🍀 - Thank you very much for sharing your memories!
Wishing for you a high place on the transplant list!
Good luck!
Reminds me of the old adage: Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself." Thanks for posting.. Excellent content - as always.
I am not a pilot, but i do love your fact managment analysis!! As a lawyer we too have to fact manage and watching your programme, given the outcome is often tragic, but not always, is a visceral reminder of what precise fact management is a skill that must be learnt to the highest standards. I learn something every time I watch your programmes. Thank you.
Lawyer? Fact management??? Give me a break pal. Lol
@@giggiddy There's a difference between the facts internally in their mind and the ones they present. Depending on the situation.
I think what I'm really obsessed with in aviation, as someone who nearly never flies, is the communication. There’s so much to learn about how humans think and communicate in these videos.
You did such a good job painting the picture here... The 18:25 (ish) diagram of what the controller said vs what he meant is so clarifying and chilling... and then the pilots straight after, clearly not really understanding the conflicting instructions but trying to follow them anyway... the pilots sitting discussing the hold not making sense, knowing the controller couldn't see what they were doing... Painful, with hindsight.
I remember reading comments asking why you wouldn't turn in your video of the terrain escape manoeuvre in the simulator - I feel like this is a good example of why that isn’t the thing to do. It feels like the pilots all had different mental pictures of what was going on, and there just isn’t time to figure that out and work out which of them (if any) is right.
Thank you again for making these! The effort and care that goes into them from the whole team is so clear ❤
My first air flight was when I was 12, back in 1971, on the 707 and 727. That 727 seemed so big I couldn't imagine anything could be larger. Now, at 65, we safely flew to Rome, Italy. The plane was a "little" larger than that ole' 727. It was a safe trip for us. God bless you pilots. You take a burden that most couldn't imagine and carry us safely. Watching these videos has made me fell safer when I fly. God bless you too, Mentour Pilot.
Hi Petter,
Thank you so much.
With the operations and process engineering background, and some aviation, I really like when you dig down into that and how all the parts mesh, or don't, in these incidents.
I think people generally don't understand how important details are, and especially how the many details need to mesh together in certain ways. It been my experience that that is where there are the most problems because one group doesn't think ahead as to how their work affects the next group, and the overall goal.
I've also found that it's rarely outright greed but individual laziness and carelessness . The natural thing is for people to take the path of least resistance. that compounds the lack of connection between the details. Ultimately any business requires situational awareness from each employee in achieving the details and how they combine to make the bigger picture. It does help if the reason for why something is set a certain way s clear to the person working on it, and that they can ask about something with no fear of poor response.
Everything requires that for success.
That is also why English is supposed to be the universal aviation language. I think in some regions they don't understand that speaking the local language to a local flight means that other pilots then have fewer clues as to what is going on in a situation like this. I do know of some ATC recordings that show Chinese pilots with not enough command of English to understand ATC (one at the multi layered procedural action Kennedy is rather notable), and there are plenty of others.
Please clarify "slippery" as describing modern aircraft. Less resistance along the outer fuselage skin?
Yep… everything is intertwined and it’s super important to understand the background in order to safe up the future.
Thank you for watching
Exactly. There is only one word that I can think of that would have made a difference: ASK.
13:40 he says that the older aircraft had "much less effective wings", so I infer that "slippery" means modern wings produce less drag, making it harder to decelarate
I have watched so many of your excellent videos Petter that I now know the immediate procedure to follow in a plane when the ground proximity warning sounds and I’m not a pilot. 😂
I’d love to hear more about why Dan Air’s choice of the 727 resulted in their failure.
This also intrigued me
Because only 727's turn left.
Probably highly fuel inefficient?
According to Wiki, they were acquired on unfavourable leases, were quite old and costly to operate by the beginning of the 1990s and consequently hampered the companies ability to upgrade its fleet. Also Dan-Air never integrated with any tour operators, so when they started setting up their own Airlines, Dan-Air ended up being pushed out of the market.
@@TBone-bz9mp In the early 1970s DanAir primarily operated the Comet4.
I was born in 1977, the year of the most devastating aviation disaster ever, the Tenerife Accident, as mentioned in the video.
This kinda always resonated with me, I wanted to help that this never happens again, make a difference. I became a pilot, completed training for this profession in 1999, got hired in 2000, and I'm at the company that hired me back then still, now as deputy safety manager additionally to my regular workspace as part of some well trained flight crews.
This is all because of people who care, people with a vision, and the will to see it through.
I find myself in a lot of Petter's statements and in his dedication to his work, I truly understand where he's coming from and appreciate every single video posted, many of which I play during meetings, trainings and hotel layovers with fellow crew members, by the way.
The only thing I'm sad about is that I've never had the chance to fly with this guy in the sim, where he may be the instructor or just the one sitting next to me, doesn't matter. I feel that I've really missed out on this. I'd loved to see him work in the actual aircraft, as I'm sure I would have found some inspiration or gotten a learning experience to support my personal development.
Thank you for everything, Petter. It is nice to see that I don't have to rely on being my own inspiration or seek far and wide, as long as you're there.
o7
I have told everyone i know about how great this channel is. Very interesting and informative about what guess on in the cockpit. Honestly i never knew that much was going on.
Much appreciated! Thank you!
Man, you are such a good communicator, you could do a video about anything I would pay attention
Thank you! 💕💕
@@MentourPilot Easier to pay attention without distracting, repetitive background noise while you're talking, though.
@@stevemawer848 If you're referring to the low-volume backing music, I've never experienced a problem with it on this channel so far. I'm personally a fan of the music choices and the lack of dynamic compression - as usually seen in modern video ads that turn the volume to 11.
"If in doubt, ...ASK!"
Thank you for another great video sir.
The improvement in video quality over time is incredible. You create content that not only gives goosebumps but also explains a lot of topics in the simplest and most engaging way. You are the TH-camr who sparked my interest in aviation, and I will soon make it my career. Thank you, Petter!
We were in Tenerife about a year later. Part of the fuselage was still visible from the road heading up Teide. I was 21 at the time and this memory still haunts me.
I can imagine this.
I remember watching your video about terrain escape maneuvers. In this story I see the origins of a lot of that. Altitude loss due to bank angle. Not pitching up. TO/GA instead of firewalling the engines. The modern concept seems to be "wings level and climb like a fighter jet." I may be wrong but I think this might have saved the flight. Let's never forget that procedures like the terrain escape maneuver are written in blood. Thank you for the video, Petter and team. Well done as always. RIP to the souls lost.
I made a comment on a recent video about an accident, making a suggestion that showing these old accidents that would be very nearly impossible to happen today could make frightened flyers more scared
I thought in that one that Petter didn’t do a great job of connecting the lessons learned in that accident to why it would be almost impossible today.
so, i want to acknowledge that in this video i think he did a really great job of explaining how todays planes and pilot training vastly increases the safety of flying and makes some accidents, like this one, nearly impossible.
I worked in a power plant for 42 years. While mistakes in our work environment would be unlikely to result in fatalities, we still had a mantra for pre-job briefings, "It's easier to ask questions now, than to give answers later." So much grief can be avoided by aggressively clearing up the things that don't make sense at the beginning of the task.
Been with this channel for a long time and I must say it’s one of the best 🙏
This crash happened at Tenerife North Airport, its same airport as the Tenerife disaster, its shocking how that airport was allowed to operate because of its weather down right dangerous!
As mentioned in the video, yep
The airport still operates, the weather is still the same
@@MentourPilot Yeah that airport was lethal in garbage weather, most of the incidents at that airport involved the clouds!
@@marcellkovacs5452 There's a good reason why most flights go to tenerife south, basically only couple of local spanish low cost airlines use it, hard to see an international carrier landing north.
@@marcellkovacs5452 but it’s much safer than it was 44 years ago due to radar and tighter procedures.
CFIT accidents always make my skin crawl. I cannot beging to imagine the dread the pilots must feel in the moments leading up to those events, and it's heartbreaking how these events always are always so close to not being catastrophic.
I worked for Dan Air Crewing when this accident happened. One of the cabin nearly missed this flight because of a traffic jam and when I spoke to her as she checked in she was so relieved to able to fly ……… sliding doors and fate is a tough mistress.
That’s horrible 😞
This is a tragic story that highlights the importance of clear communication and robust procedures in aviation. The simple misunderstanding of "turn" versus "turns" is such a stark reminder of how small errors can escalate in high-stakes environments. It’s incredible how much aviation safety has evolved because of lessons like these-pilots today are trained so thoroughly to avoid similar situations. The emphasis on better GPWS training and situational awareness is a testament to how the industry learns and adapts. A sobering but essential story to reflect on.
Indeed, exactly.
So..
- sudden unpublished proc
- lack of clarification on understading for both pilot and ATC
- loss of situational awareness (position)
- missed or lack of GPWS escape manuver.
Its sad to know that aviation safety are mostly written in blood. But also appreciate and always respect the analysis and recommendation that comes from this.
Awesome video peter 👍 iam learning a lot from your channel
Thank you! Glad you think so
"A disaster is nearly always caused by a series of events"
Unfortunately... it often takes a disaster for people to take things more seriously and take more action to prevent.
Indeed.
I remember this accident particularly well as in 1980 I had had my pilot's licence for just over a year. Our group-owned dH Chipmunk was based at Manchester Barton (EGCB) but I often flew into Manchester International (EGCC) or obtained direct Barton to Crewe VFR zone crossing clearances from EGCC ATC back then when it wasn't anything like as busy as now.
About 15 or more years ago a group of us in our local pub were talking 'flying' when a chap who looked to be in his mid 20s came over and asked if we remembered this accident, as his father had been the captain. I asked him his surname which confirmed it was the same as that of the captain.
The accident had happened when he was very young but it had devastated his family, he said. Not just the loss of his father, but it put great financial strain on them as Dan Air was apparently not in a position to pay them much in the way of compensation.
An excellent video, Mentour as usual. Your graphics of the Tenerife approach made it all very clear.
Incidentally I remember when the first generation GPWS came into use; aircraft being vectored for runway 24 at Manchester and descending LH downwind over the Peak District would sometimes get a spurious GPWS warning if the system detected an excessive closure rate with the ground as the aircraft descended while passing over a steep-sided hill! ("Lufthansa 134 descend to 2,500 feet QNH". "Ah, OK, we're up at 6 thousand now having just got a GPWS alert").
Vince C
Inventing holding patterns in a highly mountainous area is a very unusual way to guide air trafic.
Indeed.
Wow so tragic, glad we have GPS and advanced radar today. Amazing just one word initiated the sequence. Yes, we should speak up. Never should have that feeling in your stomach.
I’m an engineer and have worked on several incident investigations. What stuns me is the focus from national investigation bodies seems to be protecting their fellow countrymen/women and not focusing on the genuine root causes and associated procedural improvements that will be necessary.
Would it not be more sensible to have independent investigation bodies?
It’s crazy that after all the catastrophic events on Tenerife, they still didn’t have radar by 1980. Glutton for punishment.
Indeed, exactly.
Whoever does the graphics to your script is a treasure... If you do it, blimey, and well done. Like all aviation nutters we are extremely sensitive to errors. Every Hollywood movie mucks it up. Taking off in a 707. Climbing in a DC10 etc....(At the most basic). These are done so well.
This horrible Tenerife Disaster was sadly, but understandably always in the "shadow" of the "Big" Tenerife Disaster three years earlier. But it is really worth to be remembered. Therefore thank you very much for picking it up and analyzing it!👍
First and scariest: Three years after the "Big" Tenerife Disaster Los Rodeos had still no Radar!!! Shocking and unbelievable for everyone who knows something about the "Big" Tenerife Disaster. At an Airport for which this wasn´t the first Crash but the fifth!!! - Unbelievable! Shocking!
Then: The ATC performance was simply poor, especially taking into consideration that the ATC was well aware about the high terrain nearby and that he had no Radar to locate the exact position of the Aircraft.
Then of course what Petter mentioned rightfully in the video as most important lesson to learn from this tragedy: Don´t say "Roger" when you mean: "I don´t understand what you want me to do". Not in your common daily life and especially not when being a Pilot fllying an Aircraft!
And last but not least: Flying in a thick, dense cloud nearby high terrain, directed by an obsucre ATC isn´t obviously a good idea at all. So get out of it as quick as possible! Don´t wait for the "Pull up" instruction to sound! Get out of it and then sort the problem out or divert to another airport! - The second very important lesson to learn from this crash.
And of course the third very important lesson: Equip Airports like Los Rodeos with Radar or shut them down!
RIP to the victims of this totally avoidable Disaster! May they rest in Peace!
Childhood: Air Crash Investigation on NGC!
Now: Mentour Pilot.
Thanks so much Petter.
Thank YOU for being here. I wouldn’t do this if it wasn’t for you
The first time I flew was on Dan Air. Wasn't a package holiday, but return flights from Gatwick to Munich. Just before Christmas (the family were going to Germany to celebrate with my eldest sister who lives there). Not long before landing we had the most dreadful case of turbulence, which started with a sheer drop lasting a few seconds. My brother-in-law was queuing at the loo at that moment and he ended up on his hands and knees. He crawled back to his seat, which was the centre one in our row. Unfortunately for him, my mum was on the aisle seat and was a terrified flyer. We had to unpeel her hands from the arm (we were being thrown around, side to side at the time) and eventually get her into the middle seat.
The captain didn't do the reassuring chat thing, he just yelled at everyone to sit down and do out seatbelts up, and ended up with "Girls! Sit down!" at the cabin crew. Fair play though, we got there in one piece!
Wonder how costly this would be if it is put up on Netflix? Sometimes can't trust my eyes that this is released for free...
Yeah.. it takes around 500 hours to create these videos… by 6 people working full time.
Hence the ad-breaks
@@MentourPilot pls make Indian Airlines flight 257.... Trust me, you will see one of the biggest pilot negligences you would have ever seen in an aircraft type you yourself fly.....
Also there aren't any good videos regarding it ....
I remember this accident well. The Captain was Arthur John Whelan, a very well respected pilot with a shock of red hair. So much so that he was fondly known as Red Whelan. A pity that your crew depiction didn’t reflect that. Other than that great work.
I'm British & was born a few months before this happened. I'm pretty sure I remember my dad talking about it when I was a kid. I think the worst part about it was the Captain not being properly trained in the terrain escape manoeuvre as it seems to me it's a basic but vital crash prevention procedure that all pilots should know. Even I'd know to pull up, add throttle & level wings, just from watching these videos.
My mom flew from England to Switzerland with Dan Air, she was surprised I had heard of them - and not happy when she found out why I knew about them, YT air crash vids 'cos they're in quite a few! Her plane had problems too, engine smoke in the cabin I think?
Although the exact transcript is not shown, here are a few thoughts about ATC. You do not issue a holding clx just a minute or so before the aircraft arrives at a fix, even more so if the hold is not published. You must “clear” an aircraft into a hold, here it sounds like ATC is just describing a hold. You should issue an EAC time. You should wait until the turbo prop reports at 4T before clearing another aircraft to 5T. (probable differing descent rates, no guarantee of 1T separation) Many lessons in this vid. Good job Petr!
Tenerife has had it's share off infamous aviation events. What's truly sad is the typical and ongoing human behavior that a change will only occur and be implemented after catastrophe happened first. In other words, the deficiencies were all know nothing was done.
The instruction from the controller was horrific. No heading, no altitude, just "turn left".
It's always terrifying to think about this kind of miscommunication and lack of information cascading into such a disaster.
As usual, I'm impressed with the visuals of this documentary! They really aid what you are explaining and give such a good, fitting feel to the whole video. I'm honestly surprised about the amount of major incidents around the north airport on Tenerife - didn't know about those before - and I can hardly image how scary and unsettling it would be to try to find your way around these confusing instructions with barely any visibility. It's always good to hear that there are many many things in place to prevent such incidents today - and I'm also glad that there's the southern airport now, too. Went there a few years back and it was a smooth ride :) Thanks for these videos and the impressive details you go into, explaining the chain of events! (and hello from Discord!
Thank you! I love hearing from my Discord crew!
Yes, I’ve flown in to the south airport a few times but it has its own set of issues in the form of wind-shears.. much better though
All that, and 38 metres.
God, how depressing.
Thanks for the clear description of the accident.
Dan-Air flight 1008 broke The Golden Rule of Aviation:
1) Aviate
2) Navigate
3) Communicate
And at least ONE of the Flight Crew ought to have been aviating, while the other one tried to Navigate AND Communicate with ATC to understand what the clearance was and wasn't… Tragic.
That controller has most of the responsibility. If you are going to send a plane on an unpublished maneuver, then you should tell them.
Your comment has nothing to do with this accident sequence whatsoever. They aviated all the way. It was controlled flight into terrain.
Very insightful investigation! Thank you for providing all these lessons to improve everyone in aviation!
Petter you tell stories so well! I was not familiar with this mishap so it was a real cliff-hanger for me. When the story reached the point of the captain’s remark about heading toward higher ground and you didn’t say he pitched up I thought, “Oh no no no he’s going to turn right,” and sure enough, that’s what happened. It’s that sort of narrative talent that makes your videos so compelling and effective. Great job!
I love this channel, and this series is fascinating. Your explanations of various aspects of flight are very detailed, very easy to understand, and very well spoken. Thank you so much!
hello from kenya.
love how you tell the stories.
been a subscriber for the longest time ever
Awesome! Thank you! 💕
My uncle used to service Dan-Air planes at Lasham airfield in Hampshire in 1980. I didn’t know about this crash and he’s passed away now but I’ll ask his daughter, my cousin, if he’d ever mentioned this event.
Please do. Thank you for commenting
I remember visiting Tenerife North just before the terrible runway crash or 1977 and watching aircraft circle in and out of cloud at low level between the mountains. It looked extremely hazardous I thought a the time.
And it likely was.. given how many accidents occurred there
@@MentourPilot Indeed.
Dan Air 727 was the first aircraft i ever flew on back in the late 80s. Love a 727 it just looks so good...fantastic content and very well-made video top work
9:49 Petter, with how amazing you and your team are at producing these videos, I find that I'm also always waiting for your incredible transitions into your sponsorship section. Thank you for your creative mannerisms. Dios les bendiga.
There is a lot more to this accident, than was published here, there was severe lack of CRM between two of the Pilots, and from Memory the Flight Engineer was called out on Standby that morning for this flight,and NOT happy! how do i know this? i worked in Crew Control For Dan Air! Previous to that at Lakers Airways, and after at Virgin Atlantic for 27 years, within the Crew Logistic departments, also not really commentated on, but a HUGE factor, was the Air Traffic controllers speaking in Spanish to any Aircraft that spoke Spanish, and a reluctance to speak English at all, TFN was a dreadful place, and when all operations went south to TFS, and English was mandatary, things got a lot better
For those who are interested there is a BBC program in the Toast series on DAN Air - its rise and fall. Should be available on BBC Sounds as a Podcast
Just got back from Tenerife, most airlines use the south airport and I must say it's a beautiful approach, seeing Teide tower over you from the ocean to the top.
Tenerife South was available in April 1980, when this crash happened, it opened in November 1979. So the question is why this flight was directed to Los Rodeos.
Speaking of crashes just short of the top of a mountain, you might want to cover the January 16, 1962 crash of an off-course B-47 into Wright Peak in New York state. I climbed to the crash site, which is only about 100 feet shy of the top. There was still wreckage there. There is a 2023 book on the crash called _Wright Peak Elegy._
Great graphics been watching years as I work at an airport, I find these very interesting. Thank you
Glad you like them!
Actually, the CVR cuts out in the middle of the flight engineer’s second exclamation, “BANK ANGLE! BANK ANG-!” And that’s what makes it so difficult to listen to: the knowledge that everybody died in that instant. There one second and gone the next.
Yeah…
From the moment of the pull up warning to the crash it was only about 20 seconds. It all happened extremely fast. The pilots were reacting more than thinking. The captain most likely was already suspicious that they were heading the wrong way and the alarm just confirmed those suspicions. Unfortunately the FO and FE just didn’t have enough time to talk it out and figure out a better solution
If you're in doubt there's no doubt. Aim it up and give it all the throttles. Sort it out once you're sure you're safe.
It's also relevant that GPS was in 1980 still a classified capability of the U.S. military, not released to the public until after the Soviet shootdown of KAL-007. A result of that tragedy was that President Reagan unilaterally decided to declassify the program and make it available to all commercial airlines.
Definitely some lessons here that apply to my field - I got confused a few days ago by an unclear GPS direction, was in a rush and didn’t double check, and long story short I’m very lucky that I didn’t damage anything as I backed my semi 3 miles down a curvy road in the dark to escape. Always double check, and don’t rush - words to live by.
No radar at Tenerife in 1980?
After such terrible accidents, and given the unpredictable weather, one would think the nations would have come together by then to purchase the most advanced radar available.
A lot of airports were just plain dodgy back then.
Thanks for the upload. The Boeing 727 was my first experience in flying, many years ago of course but I can still remember my slightly nervous feeling on take off. Short haul BNE - SYD. (Australia) First long haul was the great VC10.
As a Brit I felt extra sad with this one. What a shame for everyone involved. 😓😓😓
This was much more than a crash investigation, it was aviation history as well. I loved how there were 'common' tolarences because the plane designs weren't too effective. I had no idea there were such things going on. And I wonder what else is currently 'normal', but is actually not that normal, because the tech isn't as effective yet.. another epic Mentour Pilot video ❤
Hitting like instantly. Love this channel, in some weird way it helps with the fear of flying. Thank you Petter, greetings from Croatia!
That’s what I’m trying to do! When you understand more, you fear it less.
If an airport has a poor record like Los Rodeos it is very likely that there is something wrong with the management and you should consider this playing a roll in ANY of the accidents.
It is breathtaking that Los Rodeos had three years after the "Big Tenerife Disaster" still no Radar!
@@NicolaW72 Opening TFS a little sooner would have saved a lot of soals ..
Petter, you once mentioned that you won't be doing Germanwings 9525 tragedy. There is however one aspect of this case which I find curious. How the aviation industry deals with mental health issues? Should it be more tight, or maybe on the contrary, a more lenient approach would actually help prevent such tragedies?
Indeed, exactly!👍👍👍
The one thing I found intriguing was the multi-lingual discussions on radio. If the Dan-Air pilot understood the radio chatter, it would have given them much greater situational awareness. It would be good to see an aviators standard language. While it is usually English, if we had an artificial language dedicated to the industry that is much easier to learn than English or even Esperanto itself, would the skies be safer?
We already have the standard declarations for everything in English.
It's just that everyone insists on using what they want to and "declaring an emergency".
An accident that didn’t have to happen if the captain questioned the flight controller right away. I wonder if the turn left sounded like an order?
Your videos are always the highlight of my week
It's always a great day when Petter graces us with a new video!
“And that would också explain..” The Swedish is deeply rooted 👍😂
Haha i can't unhear "they were duing..." 😅
I hope they've fixed that place now. It's such a dreadful airport the way it was then. I can't believe they didn't even have radar!? Radar was widely available then. It's also the site of the worst accident in history when two 747s collided on the runway
Appreciated your explanation of GPWS vs. EGPWS. Faith may move mountains, but airplanes don’t!
Maybe overly sensitive today, but this story really moved me. 😢
Thank you as usual for a superior presentation of the facts and how the human mind works.
You are so welcome. 💕
Yay! Another Mentour pilot video! listening while baking a birthday cake👏🏻🥰 happy weekend to everyone
Glad to have you here! I would love some cake 🎂
Amazing content and excellent articulation of the events. Thank you MentourPilot.
Glad you enjoyed it!