Very interesting. I wonder when (and why) the use of male actors died out, as in Shakespeare’s day. The air of disreputability has clung to theater a long time - and I seem to think that in Victorian times you found a lot of stories which might include, say, a gentleman who has some kind of affair or dalliance with an actress (as was the former parlance I believe). What an informative chat - I’m glad you delved in.
@@davidnovakreadspoetry glad you were interested too. Female actors on the professional stage in England came with the Restoration in the 1660s I believe.
this was a rly excellent & fascinating video, tysm for sharing !! i knew abt elizabeth robins already altho i only knew her as an edwardian writer but im super interested in reading alan's wife !
This was fascinating, particularly about the theatre management aspect. There is a young woman who works in a theatre in Little Dorrit and i was intrigued to find that this seemed to be not a disreputable occupation for her - not gentile, but acceptable.
@@tillysshelf it does seem to be an area of work with opportunities for women. Not as fitting for a gentlewoman as being a governess but much more fun!
Really interesting Ros and how exciting that all this research is being done on the subject. I also read Alan’s Wife and was also quite surprised by it. It reminded me of a Hardy or Eliot novel and I don’t think I expected to see that on the stage. In the edition I downloaded, half of the book was taken up by an introduction by someone called William Marchand who spent most of it defending the play from critics. In addition he says how it was adapted from a Swedish play and is assuming it was written by a man. The edition also has some of the criticism at the back of the book and even a letter from Hardy saying that Tess was written before the Swedish novel so he didn’t get his idea from that. Can I ask where you downloaded Afternoon from? I was going to get it from Internet Archive but they’ve been having issues.
@@josmith5992 Jacksonville State University have a downloadable pdf. They have something called The Elizabeth Robins Web with some of her works and other materials. TH-cam won't let me put a link in a comment. I have added it to the video description. Whoops no. I thought you said Alan's Wife. Afternoon is on The Hathi Trust site. I'll add a link to that.
@@josmith5992 yes you're right, we get those themes in novels but it felt more stark as a play. Imagine performing that on stage. The section where she has lines scripted to deliver wordlessly was powerful. Your edition sounds intriguing.
This is so interesting .i kept hearing Noel Coward / Dont put your daughter on the stage ....ive always been interested in the subversive rise of music hall and pantomime in later Victorian Britain and the latter is still one of my favourite forms of performance .....walked past a fantastic theatre on Tottenham High Road this week ( Edwardian) . That review you quoted about the suffragette play had a sexual tone didnt it ...shoes us what women were up against ...
@@hesterdunlop3982 some men love to use the concept of modest behaviour to control women. I just started How to Say Babylon by Safiya Sinclair and it's the same sentiments in a different context.
@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 excellent . Sounds interesting . Nearly finished the DeBeauvoir Spotlight and , although a mixed bag , can recommend Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter and A Woman Destroyed , especially as Sartre isn't lurking anywhere to fudge the writing ...Boy , did De Beauvoir need bucket loads of self belief , determination and focus ...
For some reason I thought your prompt was plays or poetry, so was going to add A E Housman's "A Shropshire Lad" as my choice for your prompt in the victober thing then saw you only said plays.
Women in the domestic sphere was for the upper classes, remember...I'm listening to Child of the Jago and the most significant female character so far was the woman who gnawed on the necks of her combatants and made them scream in an identifiable way for the neighborhood 😳
@@MargaretPinard and the middle class and even the better off working class. Being able to support a wife became an aspiration for more men which was a really retrograde influence on women's career opportunities. It is shocking how many things women were more actively excluded from in the 19th century. And the differential between men's and women's pay grew.
@@vickyrowe393 fascinating. Have you read Normal Women by Philippa Gregory? She gives a great overview of the sports and occupations women had in earlier times that they were gradually squeezed out of in the 19th century.
Very interesting. I wonder when (and why) the use of male actors died out, as in Shakespeare’s day. The air of disreputability has clung to theater a long time - and I seem to think that in Victorian times you found a lot of stories which might include, say, a gentleman who has some kind of affair or dalliance with an actress (as was the former parlance I believe).
What an informative chat - I’m glad you delved in.
@@davidnovakreadspoetry glad you were interested too. Female actors on the professional stage in England came with the Restoration in the 1660s I believe.
Very interesting! Great video Roz!
Glad you think so. I was determined to find some women playwrights but got quite fascinated by the women who were managing theatres too.
I always come out of your videos with a freshness and joy. It's do fun to learn about this
@@KierTheScrivener that's kind to say. I enjoy learning it myself so I can make a video.
Your research is absolutely amazing!!
@@AbiofPellinor I enjoyed finding out more myself.
This was so interesting!
@@katiejlumsden I think we should both read some Clo Graves.
this was a rly excellent & fascinating video, tysm for sharing !! i knew abt elizabeth robins already altho i only knew her as an edwardian writer but im super interested in reading alan's wife !
@@actual-spinster oh do. I found it quite striking.
This was fascinating, particularly about the theatre management aspect. There is a young woman who works in a theatre in Little Dorrit and i was intrigued to find that this seemed to be not a disreputable occupation for her - not gentile, but acceptable.
@@tillysshelf it does seem to be an area of work with opportunities for women. Not as fitting for a gentlewoman as being a governess but much more fun!
Really interesting Ros and how exciting that all this research is being done on the subject. I also read Alan’s Wife and was also quite surprised by it. It reminded me of a Hardy or Eliot novel and I don’t think I expected to see that on the stage. In the edition I downloaded, half of the book was taken up by an introduction by someone called William Marchand who spent most of it defending the play from critics. In addition he says how it was adapted from a Swedish play and is assuming it was written by a man. The edition also has some of the criticism at the back of the book and even a letter from Hardy saying that Tess was written before the Swedish novel so he didn’t get his idea from that. Can I ask where you downloaded Afternoon from? I was going to get it from Internet Archive but they’ve been having issues.
@@josmith5992 Jacksonville State University have a downloadable pdf. They have something called The Elizabeth Robins Web with some of her works and other materials. TH-cam won't let me put a link in a comment. I have added it to the video description. Whoops no. I thought you said Alan's Wife. Afternoon is on The Hathi Trust site. I'll add a link to that.
@@josmith5992 yes you're right, we get those themes in novels but it felt more stark as a play. Imagine performing that on stage. The section where she has lines scripted to deliver wordlessly was powerful. Your edition sounds intriguing.
Access online to the Catherine Gore play seems to have disappeared and I think it may be print on demand - I'm still waiting for my copy!
@@clarepotter7584 I can still open it from The Hathi Trust. Internet Archive was hacked and is offline for now.
This is so interesting .i kept hearing Noel Coward / Dont put your daughter on the stage ....ive always been interested in the subversive rise of music hall and pantomime in later Victorian Britain and the latter is still one of my favourite forms of performance .....walked past a fantastic theatre on Tottenham High Road this week ( Edwardian) .
That review you quoted about the suffragette play had a sexual tone didnt it ...shoes us what women were up against ...
@@hesterdunlop3982 some men love to use the concept of modest behaviour to control women. I just started How to Say Babylon by Safiya Sinclair and it's the same sentiments in a different context.
@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 excellent . Sounds interesting . Nearly finished the DeBeauvoir Spotlight and , although a mixed bag , can recommend Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter and A Woman Destroyed , especially as Sartre isn't lurking anywhere to fudge the writing ...Boy , did De Beauvoir need bucket loads of self belief , determination and focus ...
For some reason I thought your prompt was plays or poetry, so was going to add A E Housman's "A Shropshire Lad" as my choice for your prompt in the victober thing then saw you only said plays.
I did have poetry as my prompt a couple of years ago.
@@scallydandlingaboutthebooks I've been enjoying this victober much more than last year. Last year I didn't finish the boink in time.
Surprised I've heard of both those actresses...I wonder where I picked that up?? 🤪
@@MargaretPinard you are quite steeped in the period and they were huge stars.
Women in the domestic sphere was for the upper classes, remember...I'm listening to Child of the Jago and the most significant female character so far was the woman who gnawed on the necks of her combatants and made them scream in an identifiable way for the neighborhood 😳
@@MargaretPinard and the middle class and even the better off working class. Being able to support a wife became an aspiration for more men which was a really retrograde influence on women's career opportunities. It is shocking how many things women were more actively excluded from in the 19th century. And the differential between men's and women's pay grew.
So interesting! a lackluster theatre period... poor artists of history!
@@MargaretPinard I suppose the novel sucked up much of the literary talent and attention.
"turgid" i.e. muddy? or melodramatic and featuring heaving bosoms, etc? 🤣
@@MargaretPinard more pompous and dull!
What about prize fighting victorian women who took an unforgotten blow for women's rights because they had to fight men to get it
@@vickyrowe393 fascinating. Have you read Normal Women by Philippa Gregory? She gives a great overview of the sports and occupations women had in earlier times that they were gradually squeezed out of in the 19th century.
@@scallydandlingaboutthebooks thank u I'll have a look