Carb Heat Demystified: Understanding the mechanics and the dangers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Season 3, Episode 2
One of the oldest debates in aviation, and something that's received so many comments on my channel that I have a copy-pasted answer... Everyone seems to have different rules about when to use carb heat, but the answer might not be so simple. Find out what exactly happens when you engage carb heat, and what that means for your engine. As always, I am only a pilot sharing my thoughts on the industry. Only a licensed flight instructor can provide advice on aircraft operation, so befriend one as quickly as you can!
Hey, did you guys know that the FAA actually certifies flight instructors to tell you everything that I try to convey in these videos? You should definitely talk to one of them instead of trusting some video you found on the internet, because who am I to tell you how to fly? I'm just a pilot sharing my experiences with the world, and these videos are not meant to be instructional or advisory in any respect.
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Basically, do what the POH says.
I worked a few years as a mechanic and I never heard of an airplane engine being damaged because of carb heat use. On the other hand, I've read countless accident reports, sometimes deadly, resulting from pilots not using carb heat when they should have.
The first plane I flew in, the Cessna 150 had a joke of a POH. It said one thing about Carb Heat in the entire thing, and it was in the TO checklist. Carb Heat: As Needed
.....thank you cessna, that is so helpful.
@@Nathan-qo9kg And C150s/152s are carb ice makers at cruise, given sufficient ambient humidity.
This was interesting to watch. I have no aeronautical background but I’ve been told that my grandfather invented carburetor heat. This was the first time I’ve understood what it was. He was an aeronautical engineer in the 40’s and 50’s.
No way!! That's fascinating!! Where was he working at the time?
Friendly Skies Film
I'm not certain. It might have been when he worked for Texaco. I'm told he only received $1 since he worked for the company. He also worked for Jimmy Doolittle as a mechanic when he was racing the Gee Bee. His name was Frank Marshall Goad.
Interesting! I'll have to google around and see what I can find. Thanks for sharing!
I actually believe you. I'm a nobody but my grandfather was the first to invent turn-signals on cars. Applied for a patent in the 30's and was denied because the patent office thought it would interfere with the patent on running board lights! Nothing to do with the video here, but I understand how the thought process goes! Cheers and happy 4th!
Chris Humphrey that is really cool sir! thank you to your family genes we are safer in the sky 👌
I only turn on carb heat if the ice on the wings is 1 inch thick or more.
lol
empty pockets lol
empty pockets ice on the wings got nothing to do with carb ice. Infact you are more prone to get carb ice on a hot summers day than on a cold day.
Danie Louw, I'm just an arm chair pilot that was trying to be funny. What I was thinking is if you had an inch of Ice on your wings, carb heat would be the last thing to worry about ;)
Now that was funny... I always use it when getting ready to land no matter what the weathers like.
I learned to fly on Cessna's and transitioned to Pipers. I found the complete 180 of use of carb heat perplexing. I did some research and found some interesting items.
During the 1960s, accidents were VERY commonplace. Go do a search during the late 60s and you'll find about upwards of 60 a month. That's about 2 per day. Granted it was the heyday of aviation and all manufacturers were pumping out astounding numbers of planes, but it seems that training was not quality controlled as it is today. It's interesting to note that in the early 60s, the Owners Manual (good luck getting a quality POH back then) was little more than advertising typed up by lawyers. This is evident by Cessna's switch from Continental to Lycoming engines, they retained the requirement of the use of carb heat, even though the Lyc is much less prone to it. They determined it would pose less risk to the company.
Piper's lawyers, on the other hand, felt as if the lack of power on go around was reason enough to mitigate using carb heat and as such, recommend you NOT to use it. But do a search on Cherokee crashes. At my home field, we've had three fatal accidents in the past 30 years. Two of which were Piper Cherokees. Both had unexplained power loss. Conditions at the time were favorable to carb icing. One survivor in one of them admitted they pulled power for a long descent from cruise and at 1,000 feet lost power. Applying carb heat was too little too late, the engine was too cold to melt. The aircraft crashed into terrain and the PIC died.
As denoted in the film, know how your carb heat works and make an informed decision. Using it proactively will not hurt you (unless you count sucking in unfiltered air, in which you would have to do A LOT to begin deteriorating the health of your engine) but it can help you.
Using carb heat on my last flight potentially saved my life. Normal run up, normal drop at 1600rpm with an application of carb heat. I went flying, and an hour later on return dropped my gear and put prop at full forward (2700rpm). Power 16" MP, I applied carb heat in the downwind and immediately lost a majority of power. Carb temp gauge was pegged in the plus (no ice) so I disengaged carb heat and all returned to normal. Carb temp still good. I landed and thought about the problem. Pulled the cowl, did some ground running and pulled the carb heat shroud. I found a crack in my exhaust, in which applying carb heat at high RPM sucked the exhaust into the intake causing an overly rich mixture and starving the engine. Note: IT DID NOT DO THIS ON THE GROUND AT LOW RPM. If I had continued to fly, the crack WOULD have propagated and I WOULD have suffered from CO poisoning. I have since sent my exhaust out for overhaul and purchased a digital CO monitor (I have the stick-on placard and it did not indicate ANYTHING).
So yes, carb heat possibly saved my life in an indirect fashion.
Just my $0.02. Not an A&P, PPL owner only.
I learnt to fly in the eighties,For those who insisted you didnt need Carb Geat on warm day, the Chief Flying Instructor who was anex airline pilot on the last piston days and early jet day took them up in a Cherokee on a clearr day the warmer the better. they never ran that argument again . He showed me too ,I forget exactly what he did, but the engine nearly stopped. His command not advise always use Carb Heat if dercending,End Of Story!
If you are flying one of the Cessna's that has the forward facing air filter, take some time to re-read the POH. You will likely find one sentence buried in the Expanded Normal Procedures that reads "The use of full carburetor heat is recommended during flight in very heavy rain to avoid the possibility of engine stoppage due to excessive water ingestion." (page 4-16 in the 152 manual).
It happened to a fellow CFI back in my instructing days at OMN.
I've heard that! Great addition. Thanks :)
Yeeah just had weather theory lesson and instructor told me about why it is not good to fly through too much rain...
In a Cessna 195, you apply carb heat in cruise to bring the carb temp gauge up to around 70 deg. F and it leans out much better. Also, in many airplanes in IMC and low power settings even still in green arc you might get icing (in the 195 I always keep the carb temp above the credit carat on the gauge when in the clouds). There are just never absolutes.
Green arc on a tach indicates no carb heat required?
Something I didn't know with 6,000 hours total time. Always learning!
I am constantly amazed by what I learn everyday in aviation :)
My Mooney doesnt have a green arc. I guess I'll never use it again ;)
Alex Melia or you always need to use it ;P
Can you Friendly guys post some source for your claim? I question the green arc is meant to say anything about carb icing:
- In Piper (P28A) AFMs the green arc on the rpm indicator is described as "normal operating range". No single word about icing..
- On a P28A the green arc goes down to 500rpm which is also the lowest tolerabe gorund idle rpm - you'll never get that low inflight. As a consequence, the carb heat is not required? Aha!
Sorry but this sounds wrong.
Gonzo the First
From my CFI days many years ago...
I seem to remember while in flight if you're in the green arc, the engine is driving the propeller. If you're outside of the green arc, the relative wind is driving the propeller which is not normal.
I cannot find where I learned or read that info. It's been 10+ years
"DO NOT USE CARB HEAT until you've seen this"
Welp... I'm going flying now. Can't watch your video until later. I guess I won't use carb heat until then XD
Lol I knew someone was going to say that ;)
good luck...
My instructor told me to use it below the green line but never told me why and what it does... thanks for the insight!
This doesn't go into exactly what causes carb icing too much, though. If he hasn't explained that either, there are probably some AOPA articles that do a good job. Glad you enjoyed :)
Awesome video! really good explanations. I would like to add though, that Lycoming themselves have said that on their O-320 engines, they were unable to purposefully induce detonation using carb heat. Here in the UK we teach to turn off Carb heat 200-400ft above touch down, and to turn on carb heat below the green arc (just like you said). We also turn carb heat in the circuit, somewhere late downwind. This is of course a generalization. As you said, the POH comes first! What is says goes.
Sounds like you guys got it under control over there :)
Very well put together! The most important reason us Cessna pilots use it though is because you will see power reduction when you get ice, and it will take some time to get that power back. That's not something you want in a critical phase of flight. Engines have been known to stop completely from carb ice. So you have to be especially mindful on very humid days.
Glad you enjoyed :)
Thank God for Carb heaters. It's also an alternate source of air when the air intake is choked. We were flying a Mooney M20C years ago from North Jersey to Delaware at 8000 ft IFR and in the soup. Suddenly, we lost 50% engine power. I immediately pulled the carb heater and the roughness slowly went away. Luckily, we were near Atlantic City Airport. We diverted, landed and waited for the weather to clear.
It turned out that we did NOT have carb ice. Instead, the air filter in the front of the air intake iced over. No ice on wings at all. The carb heater was able to bypass the air intake that choked the carburetor until we got down to lower altitude. As soon as the engine went rough, the carb heater was on in a heartbeat.
Good catch! Another reason I've always wondered why more are not built the Piper way.
Nick, not all Pipers are set up the same as your Warrior. Its quite the contrary- most pipers built in the 60s were built with the air intake on the lower nose just like Brand C, B, and M. Most didn't "smart up" until the 70s-80s
Most cars from the late 70s through 80's had carb heat but the valve (thermostatic, not manual) was simply placed upstream of the air filter.
Kind of makes you want the Piper over the Cessna. Will definitely add this to my research on individual planes
I love my cherokee. But it's all I know. Pipers are less expensive than cessna's
@@biggentallen But they’re know to be Doctor killer’s 😂😂
@@DoitwithOA that’s the bonanza, V tail.
The Piper design is less prone to icing, but the Cessna design is higher performance and efficiency. Remember they said carb heat reduces power - the Piper lives constantly with a half-dose of carb heat. So that's the decision. Do you prefer the filtered ice resistance, or do you prefer greater power? But let's be real here, 90% of us choose based on where the wing is, and make excuses about everything else.
Try them both before making a decision one way or the other.
Fantastic explanation. I didn't know about the air intakes on Pipers being behind the cylinders; but I knew there was some fundamental difference between Pipers and Cessnas.
This was of course, a discussion of when to precautionarily use carb heat. One thing I think is left out of pilot training (that I'm aware of) is in what manner to apply carb heat when you're suspicious of carb ice. I went flying with a club C-150 one time when (apparently) the air was right in the middle of the carb ice butter zone. I built up significant carb ice at cruise power. That flight taught me a lot.
The thing that instructors don't stress enough (I think) is that if you think you might have carb ice, turn the carb heat full on, put throttle to FULL, and LEAVE them both that way for at least 30 seconds or a minute. If you do have carb ice built up, as it melts off from the carb heat, you'll get slugs of water going through the intakes causing the engine to sound terrible. You have to let it work, which might take a minute or two to completely clear out if you let it build up.
For the same reason, when I test carb heat in a Cessna, I turn it on and let it sit there for at least 15 seconds, to make sure that it's not already getting carb ice out. In the flight I mentioned above, I later realized I was probably building up ice while taxiing (at low throttle, of course) on the ground.
Be careful spewing all this logic online. I knew all of this stuff about carb heat but I watched because your videos are so well done. The graphical animations are sweet. I love flying fuel injected. I just switched flight clubs so I can fly a G1000 equipped, fuel-injected, C-172. If only I could get the engine started!
Hahaha we were leaving in a Cherokee for somewhere at the same time as George Allen in our Arrow, and I shouted, "be there before you get that thing started!!" Why be careful with the logic? Because people will dispute anything actually logical online?
From a KBED based student in the final weeks before the check-ride, good stuff. Keep up the great channel!
Good luck, mate!! See you in the Skies of MA!
Hey Nick, another great video. I just bought a piper warrior 2, much like yours, with a buddy of mine. I am taking my flight training in it now. My instructor, who is also a cessna, instructor, always has me put on the carb heat on downwind, and leaving it on all the way to touchdown. Your video comes at the perfect time. I have previously mentioned all your points to him numerous times, but he still has me turning it on and leaving it on, which i am in full disagreement. I think he is more used to the cessna procedure as he says turn it on always whem rpm is below 1900. Your video is golden! It pretty much confirms what i have been saying to him all along. I guess, the bottom line, is follow the procedure for the specific aircraft you are flying.
Interesting. Have your instructor read the POH and let us know what he says.
That's indeed the name of the game! Glad I could have good timing for you ;) Oh, and congratulations on becoming an aircraft owner!! You'll love the warrior.
Regardless of your carburetor mounting and induction design, install a carburetor temperature probe and gauge (I have the IE CA-1 Carb/OAT model), fly on cooler high humidity days, and then make this same judgement call. I was shocked at just how often the gauge reads in the "serious icing" range. Also note, there is a mesh screen between the heat muff and carburetor intake on most aspirated aircraft including the PA-28 series. Remember, once your engine dies from carb ice, the heat source (exhaust heat) also goes away--don't be afraid to use carb heat if there's any question!
great video, great production! congrats. Here in Argentina we get used to put carburator heat off when we have the RWY secured 'cause we have too many dirt RWYS.
Glad you enjoyed, mate! Sounds like fun flying down there :)
Friendly Skies Film is a great place for flying. you're all invited.
Thanks for the video. This has been a discussion with my flight instructors for a while now. They have always told me carb heat wasn't necessary because of the location of the carburetor but never mentioned the routing of the intake. I will certainly look into that. Even still, as far as the checklist goes, the decent checklist says, "Carb Heat ...as needed". So you are correct there. However, the pre-landing checklist says, "Carb Heat ..ON". I can understand not having carb heat on if you're landing in the bush, but most of us are landing on paved runways. As far as doing a go-around with carb heat, the answer is simple, DONT! Just take it out just as you would if you where flying a Cessna. I don't understand why that should be such a problem. Also, if you do need to go around, you want all the power you can get. You won't know if you have carb icing on base and final and after that, its too late to try to get rid of it at the point. A very experienced pilot once said to me, "Is it worth the risk?" I have to say, that question still rings in my ears.
Very interesting. Just finished the Advanced Pilot course on engine management. Things are not that simple. Turns out my normally-aspirated 182 has the worst mixture distribution in the entire GA fleet, which is markedly improved by running a little carb heat all the time, allowing you to lean considerably - and THAT increases engine life as well as reducing fuel use. If you need more power, such as in a go-around - of course just push ALL the knobs in.
I follow the POH, keep an awareness of the temperature and humidity and pay attention to RPM's
Amen to simplicity :)
In Soviet Russia, carb heats you.
Haha
totoritko 😂
lolol Real Slav's use carb heat to warm up their kompot.
In Soviet Russia, Cabin Heater is- open the Vodka bottle. Just kidding, I like those Ruskies.
hahahahaha
Clicked on this because my hungry self thought it said Crab Meat. Not my proudest moment...
Crab Meat Demystified: Understanding the mechanics and the dangers
🤣
This is one of the videos we should be watching,.....very educating.
Carburetor heat effective is a killer in trainer aircrafts.
Most student pilots know little or nothing about it.
Thanks for this video I am saving it :)
I do the best I can. Glad you enjoyed it :)
"Most student pilots know little or nothing about it. "
that is a scary thought.
AugmentedRealities True though. It's one of those things that, when mentioned in an aviation circle, usually results in a massive flamewar of contradicting theories and opinions. Even a lot of PPLs don't understand carb heat. I have no time (0.5, basically no time) and feel that I know more about it than some PPLs.
_Some_
If one isn't put into a mindset about it by a CFI or another pilot, it becomes an open-ended question. You can make your own opinion on it. That does leave you to come to a _wrong_ answer to the question however.
One of the things I was taught in ground school was to check your engine RPMs. If you're at X altitude with the mixture appropriately leaned, then you my have carb ice. Pull it and watch RPMs, wait for the drop and see if it improves. If it doesn't, and, sometimes, it may run even rougher on carb heat because of the water in the engine to the point where you NEED to push it in or the engine may quit. Beyond that, RTFM.
That, however, was in 2016 and I honestly forget a lot of ground school, so i'm not current on that.
See, this is why I have so much respect for the reasonable aviators, not matter their experience. I've been told that a PPL is the lowest scum on the pilot totem pole, and we should keep our thoughts to ourselves. I personally believe that there is something to be learned from everyone, whether they post their credentials at the bottom of their comment, or they're a simulator pilot. Just soak up as much information as you can, and make logical decisions based on that information. Sorry for the rant... I guess your comment just made me happy inside.
I really dislike the CFIs that think because they're a CFI they know everything there is to know about aviation. It's like some of them think that if you're a student or sim pilot or even hold a PPL you're automatically an idiot that doesn't _really_ know anything about flying, and if you were taught differently or have a different way you like to fly they have to tell you the "proper" way to do it. Of course, this is a more extreme case, and they thankfully are few and far between from my experience.
Oh, by the way, you're not on the bottom of the totem pole. Us students are :)
when is new video
Install a carb heat temperature gauge.
Most of the times I was told carb heat was necessary it wasn’t, and when it wasn’t necessary, it was. With a gauge you’ll see why.
Not a pilot but always interested in aviation. Your videos are always very informative. Great job.
Thanks, friend :)
Bottom line is always know what you're flying and operate according to that airplane's AFM/POH, not via an "aeronautical opinion".
By the way, FSF... well produced video! Great work researching and editing!
Thanks, mate :) I recently summed up an NTSB report to Killian as, "Cause of accident: RTFM."
Very good. There is nothing like knowing what the manual for your airplane says to do... especially for later model airplanes. Understanding is a valuable tool in life but can be a lifesaver in Aviation. I see someone else addressed the reason ice forms in carburetors... the expanding air cooling on the escape side of the venturi and the resulting temperature drop in the presence of moisture. I enjoyed your video and will subscribe. I've been a Pilot since 1983 and a CFI-I since 2002. I'm still learning. Tailwinds.
P.S. Good one empty pockets.
Glad you enjoyed. You echo my sentiments of understanding perfectly :)
Good video, I don't use Carb heat on the Cherokee 140 either. only for run-ups to check its working and sometimes on for 10 seconds or so on the downwind when dew point and temperature are within 3 degrees of each-other.
Sounds about right to me. I think that's how Piper intended it.
Yup! That's when condensation occurs!
@@FriendlySkiesFilm Seems to me that Piper passing that intake air over the cylinder heads warming it in normal operation would reduce air density and thus power. You want to introduce the coldest air possible into an internal combustion engine if you're looking for performance.
Was able to fly the PA28A the last two weeks. Made me think of your channel :) i used your videos for studying and preparing for the flights as I've never flown a plane before. Nice video! :)
Thanks, friend. Hope you had fun! :)
Great video. I didn't know the rule with carburated Cessnas. I rarely use carb heat in my pipers. If there is visible moisture and low temps that sucker goes on though.
my 172 is fuel injected. it's nice to be able to forget completely about carb heat :)
Lucky ;P
Until you run into vapor locks in the winter lol
Shadez Entertainment got mine ice cold injected
summer flying is much more prone to vapor locks
So can you fly upside down then?
Very informative video, Nick, well done! Being on the flight simulation side of things, these things are easy to neglect, yet may be hard to grasp. This video really brings it all together!
Right? If I ever do get a team together some day to develop a flight simulator, these things will be more important to understand. Liked you last email, btw! I'll be in touch again soon! :)
I smell Mythbusters!!! Love the concept, love the video! keep up the good work Nick, fly safe friend!
You're nose is correct! Wait until you see the next one! :)
Interesting as a student i have been told in a 152 to put carb heat on on setup and turn it off when in gliding range. Makes sense now. Nice video 👍
Thanks, mate! I do my best!
Nice to know the difference pa-28 has the advantage on carb over Cessna. No instructor ever mentioned it 👍thanks.
That was my experience too, so I made this video :)
Interesting video! Embarrassingly I learned something from this which, as someone who has instructed for a while, I should have known already. I was previously taught that with low throttle settings the butterfly valve has a greater cross sectional area relative to the air flowing past it, giving an increased area on which ice can form. Maybe there are elements of truth to both.
Huh! Interesting! It's probably true! I knew I would learn something from the comments too. I always do!
You make excellent content. You don't need click bait titles.
Great video! During many years of flying I've deferred to an aircraft's particular POH.One of my instructors from the past made an excellent suggestion to make sure during the after landing checklist to include closing the carb heat as soon as practical.Even on the ground there was a chance of the carburetor ingesting something during taxi(especially in single engine Cessnas).Please keep up the good work!
Especially if you're behind another airplane! Then those particles are huge!!
You bet! :-)
I taxied a Piper PA-24-250 to a friend's hangar for work. Cold morning in northern California. Engine ran a little sluggish. For grins I applied carb heat. Engine rpm rose and performance increased.
Thank you. It was very well explained!
Thanks, mate! I do my best :)
It really depends on where you're flying. Sure if you'e in Arizona or drier parts of California - the air will be so dry that you'll only get carb icing if you fly through a cloud at low power I suppose. In Northern Europe the air has much more moisture in it - especially the UK and we have had a few incidents of short finals crashes where carb icing was strongly suspected.
I think it's dangerous to give advice like this without a caveat that it depends on where you're flying. Not all of us fly in dusty conditions where filtered air is so important either.
Nick and Co., thanks!! Starting my PPL lessons in a couple of weeks. My flight school is a completely Piper outfit (well, 8 Pipers, 1 Cirrus really), but I will be all over that POH to confirm this info with my CFI. Great to know.
Stick with the Pipers ;)
I intend to, sir. Haha
joke's on you, the 172 I fly has an injection engine. No carb heater for me.
Your lack of carb heat usage on your plane with no carburetor is very concerning to me... /s
Spoken like a true man of the internet! XD
For the most part, fuel injected engines don't need carb heat. But they do need an alternate source of intake air in case the filtered air source ices up due to impact icing. Keep your options open.
AFAIK the Cessna 172s does this automatically. It's a little spring-loaded valve that opens automatically when the main intake is blocked.
I also find no mention of any alternate air selector in the checklists (other than the alternate static ofcourse).
Would have to check the POH to be 100% certain though.
Depends on how old the 172 is. Before it was named the "Skyhawk" is was just a 172 with carb. heat and less horsepower. I think the early ones only had 150 horsepower. I remember flying them. They were slow.
I haven't been flying for a while however even I can tell that is some very excellent information about carburetor heat usage. Thanks for sharing
I do my best! Glad you can see it :)
Good info in your videos. I am a CFII and my students appreciate the material.
Glad to hear it! Tell them I say hello :)
Never flown Cessnas so I had no idea about the differences in carb installation. Fascinating thanks!
I really appreciate these informative videos with the terrific graphics.
Intresting. I fly a small contential 0-200D and carb heat is to be applied as needed.
Really nice video! I will be sharing it with my PPL students! Keep up with the great work!
Excellent!! Tell them I say hello :)
Finally I can put all this to test in MSFS, where carb heat may exist but has no effect at all. Other than that, phenomenal explanation and the best I've ever heard about carb heat, finally it makes sense.
Very insightful video. I always wondered what the carb heat did as I only flight in FSX. Thank you for the great content! A+A+
Glad I could shed some light! :)
Good to know, I have been doing it right all along with my aircraft.
I'm no pilot, not by a long shot. 21 years old and never even considered taking classes or beginning pilots training (I ain't got the $ like that). However, your videos along with many clearly experienced pilots' videos are the most entertaining things I can seem to find. Pilot culture is so fascinating, makes me want to go sign up. Takes balls to fly those little planes though. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep my cool while getting tossed around by the slightest bubble of turbulence. Keep it up Friendly Skies, great stuff for sure.
So glad you enjoy :) I think I've only hit a pocket of turbulence like that once, though. 99% of the time it's perfectly smooth, especially at night.
I fly a c150, I have the carbheat on for the whole descent until about 300ft AGL, then I push it back in as part of my short final scan/checks to be ready for a go around. I check it in cruise as part of my FREDA checks every 20-30mins too. For the FREDA, I pull it out, count to 10 slowly and if there’s no rough running or abnormalities I’ll pop it back in.
Good points, as a CFII when teaching in an aircraft with CH I teach to use it when needed. The unfiltered air is not a good idea.
Sounds like you're a good CFII, then :)
I took lessons in a C-152 back in 1992. From what I remember, the instructions were, "always pull carb heat when descending".
Yep, that's basically it for a Cessna.
But that was only being cautious in case you ever flew the C150, which was a b****r for icing up at reduced power.
Great video.. insteresting stuff... Only time now when I use CARB HEAT is when i say my checklist out loud on final. Since I fly a Piper Arrow.. no need.. :-)
Haha nice :)
Thanks for this one! I argue all the time about this with one of my right seaters who is also a pilot. It goes like this, he reads the landing check "carb heat ON and Mixture FULL RICH". I say, "Dude it's 114*F outside (KNYL) the temp gauge is 75% full deflection, DA is 4500' for a field elevation of 213'. We don't need it, and we don't need Full Rich either". He says, "yeah but the book says..." I say "the book was written for the masses that don't fly in hell". I can feel the engine groaning when combining carb heat with full mixture on these hot summer days.
Definitely consider all aspects! So true. Of course, in many aircraft like my Piper, it doesn't even say ON. It says As Needed.
Got taught on the C172 on finals Carb heat off, so you don't forget it when you have to do a sudden go around.
Greens- gear down and locked
Red- mixture set
Blue-pitch set
Blacks- carb. Heat off and throttle set.
Thats my final check list.
Hm, haven't heard the colors memory tool yet. Neat.
The air around the Xfinity Center here in Mansfield gets very polluted depending on who's playing that night.
What? How?
Noise pollution ;)
Noise Pollution? Appy carb heat too.
Is the answer "Only when the risk of carburetor icing is not worth taking when compared with the risk of debris in the engine"?
Mansfield is right near me! 😃
I once got carb ice while taxing a C-150. It was not plug fowling, it was real carb icing. After we applied the carb heater, the ice melted and the engine ran smooth again. I don't recommend using carb heat while taxiing because of the bypass of the airfilter. But it is possible to get carb icing while taxing. I know, I've experienced it with over 4,500 hours in mostly single engine Cessnas.
So glad that has been demystified. At first I thought it said "Canned Heat" and I thought we were going to demystify the blues rock group from the "60's.
The first explanation that makes sense! Thanks
A pilot in a PA-28 Cherokee at KCNI (Canton County GA) took off with carburetor heat on, which caused the engine to explode on takeoff.
Thanks. I've always wondered about the Cessna/Piper POH differences for the same 160hp engine.
Once I missed to shut off the carb heat during a go-around, and it took a bit of time to realize why I wasn't climbing and was headed towards disaster. From then on, I turn off carb heat on short final.
Another great job, entertaining and educational
Thanks, mate. I'll write you back soon by email.
Shared this with our flying club. Thanks
Maybe mentioned here before but, yeah there is a big difference between a Lycoming and Continental Engine. Lycoming mounts their carb on the oil pan which minimizes carb ice since the hot oil effect warms the air inside the carb. Both of these engines are used on Cessna AC. An instructor once told me there is a danger using carb heat in extreme cold temps like those below 20F. The increase in air temp by carb heat usage will add moisture by warming the air--actually causing carb ice to form? Spoiler= I do not know if this is true but it sounded logical and I always remembered the comment.
Learning on a 172XP with fuel injection but also a constant speed prop so now, in place of carb heat, I’ve got rpms and manifold pressure for my instructor to yell about before landing.
Thanks for the informative video. On the PA-28-161 I fly, the green arc only goes down to 2,000 RPM, but the manual only says to test for icing when at low power settings, then turn the carb heat off, just like you said. I've also noticed the carb heat in the PA28 gives little RPM drop on runup (maybe 50 RPM?), whereas in the C172, the power drops substantially.
I've noticed the same thing. Some PA-28's will drop as much as 150, but that's the most I've seen.
Which makes it that much easier to accidentally leave it on. Not that I've ever done that...
Some engines in some planes make ice more than others. That's really what it comes down to. Pipers just don't make ice like a Cessna. I never got carb icing (even in winter no less) in my 160 hours or so in Pipers. But when I bought into my 182P, it makes ice a lot if the temperature is fairly low or there's a lot of moisture.
In my case though, I have a carb temp gauge, so I do not usually pull carb heat out for the entire descent unless it needs it. If you don't have that gauge, then the original POH instructions should be followed.
Only one time, right after I got my private license, did I forget carb heat until I noticed a slight decrease in performance. Then I pulled it full and everything went back to normal in a few mins. I dont know if I was anywhere near an engine failure or not but it scared me so bad, I never forgot it again. It only takes once.
I remember when I was a student on my 1st solo and 1st touch & go I took off with carb heat on. This was 26 year and 4200hrs ago and I remember like yesterday. Nothing happened but I learned from my mistake
One time at night I was flying a 150 around the pattern and when I made a reduction below 2200 RPM the engine started to sputter really bad and I immediately pulled the carb. It then began smoothing out after about three seconds. After that I left it on and leaned the mixture. In 40 years of flying up until that point I have never experienced actual carburetor icing. This particular 150 must be one of those type of engines that are prone to icing very easily. Yes there was high humidity and the temperature was around 60° at sea level.
Never seen a Piper with heat directed from the rear of the engine. In fact the Piper Warriors would ice up on initial start if any rain or damp in the air intake. Makes for a good demonstration of carb icing for students. Only time i see icing is when it's misty or foggy days and when doing power checks you se moisture trails of the prop blades. In 15k hours flying never seen icing in flight. Perhaps because i do regular checks for ice. But have had C150 ice up just taxying to the runway.
Manuals & check lists are essential - knowing how it works gives you answers not covered!
Amen!
Before I became a pilot....In my 20's I had a typical Baja Bug and we were messing around in the fairly hot desert one day. I pulled over to check on something (I forget what it was)....but looking at the engine I noticed the carb was covered in white frost....kind of a "Ah-ha" moment.
Neat!
GREAT INFORMATION..... THANK YOU FOR SHARING!
I do my best!
KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Float type carbs can develop induction ice at ambient temps above 80F.....even at cruise power. Temp drops due to fuel atomization vaporization is about 50 degrees F. Different installations may have more or less of a tendency, but the can all ice up. Having a CAT gauge is a good thing.
The RPM green arc is the normal operating range, it doesn't mean there is a risk of icing outside this range. Actually, depending on where the icing occurs, some injection-engined aircraft require more or less RPMs.
I usually run the carb heat when I drive. It's tough because my truck's engine is fuel injected
Real reason for icing during lower rpm is beacause you're closing butterfly valve, and that increase the velocity of the air. Velocity increases, and air pressure and temperature decreases. And if there is alot of moisture in the air say on a humid day, that water collects in the throat of the carb and starts to freeze do to the pressure and temperature drop, Very very common on cessna beacause the induction air feeds directly from outside and right to the carb. Unlike a piper which the induction air is routed around warm areas before entering the carb.
Thanks for the tip! Very important to know your plane!
Awesome educational video. But where does the air come in from for the cessna 172 when the carb heat is on?
I own a warrior, so I can't say with the same certainty that I can of a Piper, but I think there's a hose that goes to the left of the prop.
Thanks for keeping it real and relevant! 👍
Same to you, mate! :)
I used to fly a 61' Cherokee 180, and talked poorly of aircraft with fuel injection for being too complicated... I've since bought a fuel injected 172 and I couldn't imagine going back.
Haha yeah, only problem is getting the things started.
Very good explanation and details. Thanks.
I do what I can :)
Interesting, when I was flying Tomahawks with an instructor we never used carb heat for landings, but when I fly the C172, we always use carb heat for landings.
I went up in an old motor glider once with a tuned up VW beetle engine in the front, apparently you could get an iced up carb in a car with that engine! We used reheat quite a lot, allegedly there was an incident where that aircraft had to be glided home because the carb had turned into a solid block of ice which took over a day to thaw out!
Very nice! I'm gonna save that link :P You just made my job easier!
Haha tell your students I say hello!
wilco!
Good rule of thumb. If dewpoint and temp are within 20deg of each other on ground the chance of icing exist.
Excellent video. Very professional and informative.
Thank you!
Also on visible humidity conditions. Which usually translates to the chart you put on the video.
Yep, exactly :)
Hmmm interesting point.
best explanation I've heard of this subject, thank you.
My instructor puts carb heat on when reducing power under the green arc in the air in the 172 and told me to do that as well.
That's because that's what the POH says to do in a 172 :P