I use a Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet TIA antenna, very successfully. For me, cost was a factor and the Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet TIA antenna does the job! Thanks Michael, this is KX4EZ, Esteban, Jacksonville, Fla
The big draw to the Wolf River Coil is its price. When I purchased my coil‚ I first put it on the air with bits and pieces of wire and parts I had laying around. To fully outfit the SB1000 is about half the cost of the Chameleon MPAS‚ but then again the Chameleon can do things the Wolf River can't.
I have experimented with my WRC TIA ANTENNA using wire and found it also works well in different configurations. The problem becomes in a state park, where you cannot hang/tie anything to trees. There, the WRC SB-1000 shines. KX4EZ
I also went with the Wolf River Coils antenna mainly due to cost. Yes, I have to re tune, but I purchased a set of two rings. Finding the sweet spot for each band really helps.
The MPAS 2.0 comes with a 25' and a 73' long wire which can be used for radiator or counterpoise. So if you really want to tune the unit just with the counterpoise then use the 73' and roll or unroll the counterpoise until you obtain the lowest SWR. If you do so, you won't need the tuner. Also remember that if you're using a SINGLE counterpoise then the MPAS will have more gain toward the direction the counterpoise is pointing. If you've trees in your area and you want to maximize the antenna performance, then you'll use the 73' long wire as radiator and 25' long as counterpoise and set the 73' in a sloper configuration and extend the counterpoise at the opposite side of the 73' long radiator. That will allow the unit to cover everything from 6M to 160M with a tuner.
Thanks for the clarifications and I'll continue to do more activities with the MPAS- trying out additional radials and a counterpoise for enhance operation. As I dig more and more into the MPAS 2.0 I become increasingly impressed with its versatility and how individual components can be utilized in different ways to provide a field communication solution for a particular situation.
Thanks for the info. I'm homebrewing a "silver bullet" for POTA and home use. My fingers don't have the dexterity to build radios, but I can build antennas just fine. Mike, I think this the best I've ever heard your delivery. Great job.
A very good, honest and accurate review! From all my research your findings are dead on with info I have found on these two antennas. I try and keep within a reasonable budget for my HAM radio gear so, I went with the far less expensive Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet 1000 TIA. As you mentioned, it requires a little more hands on, but that is part of the fun. There can be too much hands free automation these days IMHO and that takes the fun out of it. I plan to try out my Wolf River Coil in a local park this weekend! 73!
Michael, this is a great review. I own both as well. I would say however that when you say Wolf River Coil “wins” on price I think it would be more accurate to just say the Wolf River is less expensive. The MPAS costs more but it’s got a lot more capability in terms of versatile set up options. It’s like having multiple systems. Thanks again for a great review.
Michael, this is one of your best videos for those interested in portable operations and emcomm. You hit the nail on the head at 7:47 when you identified the losses within the chameleon (and other brands) 5:1 matching transformer. The issue you identified at 18:39 about having to repeat your transmission while using that antenna (and the associated need for relay stations) has been identified as a risk in the AARs for several recent emcomm activations. At 9:20 you mentioned a deficit of 2 S-units using the chameleon (approximately 12dB of loss)...which is actually higher than what is suggested by some technical articles related to that transformer design (maybe the combination of the transformer, tuner to correct the mismatch, and lack of appropriate counterpoise/radials?). Anyway, I use a chameleon SS17 telescoping 17ft stainless steel whip with a homebrew coil (similar to the wolf river coils design)...it works well for me! Chameleon's manufacturing capability is clearly excellent, and their products are ALWAYS well constructed (from a mechanical perspective). I hope that everyone who is in the market for one of these 2 systems watches your video and thinks critically about the content you shared! A combination of the two systems makes the ideal portable antenna (effective and quick to deploy).
I have the Cameleon antenna system, icluding their EmComm wire antenna for10-80. I've found the wire more efficient than the whip, which is not surprising. The inverted L or inverted V and Sloper set up's work especially well when the counterpoise is well oriented in a direction of special interest. I've wanted to have a silver bullet in spite of the more complex set up requirements. Obviously you proved the point that a resonate antenna is superiour to a non-resonate antenna as a general principle. Every time we make a compromise something is lost so taking that into account is also important when considering if these antenna's are suitable for the operating objectives of HAM's who wish to have a portable quickly deployed multi-band antenna. I don't think there is a one size that fits all when it comes to meeting such objectives.
Great information, I recently purchased the Wolf River Coil myself and wondered how it compares to other antenna's so this was very interesting to me. Thanks for the video always enjoy your video's and you always have a wealth of information. 73 Glenn ZL1MY
I too recently got a WRC TIA antenna. As a new operator, price was absolutely a factor. I'm glad to see it performed well, and I don't mind adjusting the coil. I even looked at the MPAS 2.0, but the price was hard for me to justify. Thanks for doing the comparison!
The CHA MPAS 2.0 is currently used by the USMC, National Guards and the US ARMY. Few other branches have showed their interests at using the CHA PAS 2.0 for the COMM units.
Yup! Here is where I said "It's NOT the arrow is the Indian" You need to Know what are you doing investigate read the manual. Sadly not everybody likes to read. On these days everybody wants all easy. Fast and right know.
The manual is very good and gives you lots of lots of deployment options. But I've also found that due to the versatility‚ a bit of experimentation is in order as there are some configurations that aren't mentioned.
I'm sure they do. Problem is, I'm not just looking for an easy, idiot proof antenna to set up for NVIS work. (I already have that. A $30.00 home made dipole) I'm looking to make the most contacts that I can with the best signal strength I can given conditions. For the many reasons listed above, the MPAS antenna does not fit the bill.
I just received my Wolf River Coils 'TIA' a couple of weeks ago, and I highly recommend it. I would opt for the $20 dual collar option, also. I'll probably own the MPAS system too, eventually, as it's been proven in the field by many operators.
I want to try aluminum tent poles with shock cord. A guy on eBay sells nice stainless ground mounts with a BNC or SO-239 to 3/8 threads. Just got one and may try diy mpas type antenna. Also have a Wolf River coil for it.
Thanks, your video was very informative. I'm new to this and am kinda getting into ham for emergency needs. I've selected the icom 7300, study manuals, etc, but I've yet to figure out a portable but useful antenna system. This helped a lot, but Im definitely open to any suggestions or advice
What you should consider if you are looking for an antenna system for emergency communications is the ability to effectively communicate within a 300 mile radius. That means being able to put out a strong signal on 40, 60, and 80 meters and being able to deploy the antenna in an NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave) method so that other stations within that 300 mile radius will hear you. Typically wire antennas will be your best bet. Most of my ham radio camping and POTA videos, while focusing on cross country communications, illustrate techniques that can be easily applied to low band near field operation. I hope this gives you a starting point.
As always, I love your vids! So,....here's the question. Let's say the primary application is DIGIAL MODES activations in a portable/POTA type setting.... where there's not a lot of frequency changing, but rather, picking a frequency and sitting on it for a while. Would that scenario change your 'go-to' choice between these 2 antennas? Also, you mention "in an ideal world one would mate the Chameleon whip to the WRC coil." Given that both are available from their manufacturer ala carte, ... the "idea" really could be realized, yes??? [assuming the chameleon whip can be mounted/threaded onto the WRC]. As a person who doesn't yet have either, I could buy both pieces from the start.
Hi Michael, thank you for being one of the only channels to point out the two "S" unit difference between the MPAS and the WRC antennas. I'd rather have a better signal (the WRC or Buddistick), one where we don't have to repeat exchanged info. I can make or buy an end fed or dipole and still be many dollars ahead of the game using the WRC antenna and wire antennas. All three being resonate with no tuner required. All three radiating almost all the power. At a $550.00 price point, the so called versatility of the MPAS antenna with it's lower radiated power makes zero sense to me. Other channels give glowing reports on the MPAS but fail to mention the decrease of 2 "S" units over the resonate antennas. To me, this is a big deal as many don't realize that even though many contacts are made with both antennas, the quality of the contacts is not as good with the MPAS. Two "S" units makes a big difference, especially when near the noise floor. If getting on the air four different ways with one antenna is the most important thing to you (you can you can do the same with the WRC or Buddistick and two cheap wire antennas), and you don't mind paying big $$$ for a coil and resistor in a small enclosed unit, then maybe the MPAS will work for you. Not for me. Michael, thank you for pointing out the facts and not just being a gear pimp like too many other channels.
For what the MPAS vertical does, it does well; that is, sets up fast and allows for band switching with a minimum of readjustment. The price you pay is 12dB or 2 S units of signal loss. Not a big deal when the band is open, but can be a killer with the wildly invariable conditions we've had of late. I think many of the reviewers lean on FT8 and WSPR to test the effectiveness of an antenna, and since those are considered weak signal modes, the losses get overlooked and you receive an exaggerated picture of performance.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I would agree. You can make a coat hanger look good with whisper. Problem is, some of the larger channels really are not mentioning whisper or digital, but giving glowing reports on POTA activations. Yet none ever use this antenna when not doing a antenna review. There is a dishonesty through omission in their reviews. They know the antenna is at least 12 db down, yet say nothing. Thank You Michael for giving honest reviews.
I just ordered the MPAS 2.0 from Martin Lynch in the U.K and they're out of stock. These are selling fast, the Chameleon site is OOS too so I can only imagine it's going to take time to get them back in stock. I have used the Super Antenna MP1 for nearly a year when I get time to work portable which hasn't been much this Winter. The Super Antenna has greatly exceeded my expectations for a 7 foot antenna. With the 80m Coil a few nights ago I made a contact 1000 miles away, a 7 foot antenna ? yes I was shocked ! SWR is tricky to get below 2.1 on 80m and bandwidth is narrow, understandably. Maybe more radials would help but I don't work 80m when portable during the day, I thought the MP1 would be a dummy load on 80m but it works, obviously a compromise but it works. So, why did I order the MPAS 2.0 ? well, in reality, tuning is a pain in the ass, having to go back and forth for each band change or to adjust at a different portion of the band gets old, even with an antenna analyser, disconnecting and reconnecting the antenna/analyser every time is a pain. So this is ultimately what leaned me towards the MPAS 2.0, The MP1 is a great antenna and it breaks down into an incredibly compact size, it's very well constructed and has not failed me once, with the FT-891 I always make contacts with it with the stock whip. Believe me, using the MPAS 2.0 with a tuner to flatten out some swr is not going to be a compromise, when I get a break from the Family I want to set up, make contacts and go home and spend less time fumbling about with tuning. I also have Resonant EFHW with 49:1 from hyendfed.nl, the mini 100 watt 4 band and it works great with QRP 5 watts with my Xiegu X5105. But messing with trees or my fibreglass pole can be another pain in the ass, you need something to attach the mast to etc. I am a big fan of the EFHW and 49:1, no radials needed, no tuner and no counterpoise, just a good ground. My base antenna is the myantennas.com EFHW 8010 and it's an excellent performer and gives me good DX a seriously great Base antenna. Low SWR doesn't tell the full story, I could have a wire antenna 10 feet off the ground with a low SWR and it wouldn't perform well. There are other reasons I might want to use the MPAS 2.0, I sometimes want to work from my conservatory in the Summer when the weather is finer and just operate there in the pleasant evening Sun without having to run in and out to change bands. Or operate in my Mothers for an hour when I visit with the Kids etc. I can't wait to try out the MPAS, when I go portable I'm not necessarily looking to be the best or strongest station, with limited time I want to setup quickly and make contacts and spend less time running back and forth to the antenna to tune it and if it performs as good as the MP1 or better without having to physically tune for each band or sometimes a few times, disconnect coax to connect to analyser, disconnect analyser, connect coax etc then I'll be quite happy indeed and seeing some videos I think I'll be quite happy indeed.
I’m still learning… is it correct that the Silver Bullet with it’s manual adjustment will have less losses than the MPAS with it’s magic transformer? Or is that an oversimplification? I already have the JPC-12 which is like a poor man’s Bullet and may consider one or the other. However this is early days and I’d like to experiment with end fed random wire before I decide on the next thing. The MPAS-2 costs $850 in Australia. The Silver Bullet is about $250 or something. There is also the Big Kansas Coil.
I recently purchased a WRC vertical at the Orlando Hamcation to compare against my PAC-12 Antenna. The Pac-12 is hands down more portable (I store it in a small tool roll) and is also a tapped-loaded coil vertical with radials. Comparing them A-B on 20m and 40m, they were indistinguishable to me. The Wolf River coil is definitely more rugged. My final verdict was that I'd use the WRC for POTA or FD type operations where portability was not a major concern, and use the PAC-12 for hiking/backpacking. Although I can see the overall versatility and convenience of a non-resonant antenna, I have very portable homemade wire antennas that would render the added expense of the MPAS system as a major barrier. 73 de AC7NA
What a great review Michael, thank you! I have the WRSB and love it, It is very efficient and not too costly. I am currently looking at the MPAS for portability and setup options, it just seems like a very steep price. If someone is looking into the WRSB w/102 whip, you will not be disappointed, it works excellent! I leave the whip at 102" and adjust the collar accordingly. I pre-marked frequency ranges down the side and it has worked great for 'preset' collar adjustments. I also ADDED 3 METAL TENT SPIKES, with curved top hook, to hook in the legs and hold down because with the 102" whip it will tip over when ground mounted. I have that clamp mount, didn't even think to use it :) ! I'd hate to have to have a tuner but I have been looking/wanting to get the MPAS for the versatility and compactness. My personal hesitations are 1. MPAS Cost, 2. Tuner/No tuner.... Time to sell off some other equipment and just get the MPAS 2.0. :)
I hear your comment about the tent spikes in order to keep the WRC's legs steady. Question, do you have the standard ground tripod or the larger 'mega' tripod?? Probably either one would benefit from your tent spike solution. 73.
@@timmanwell2538 I have the standard three metal pegs that come with it and screw into the coil base. But the metal spikes with a curve not slant hook work perfect.
@@prephampaul Thanks for the info. Have you used your WRC for digital modes? I'm almost exclusively into JS8 and PSK31, tho sometimes I admit 'fishing' in the FT8 pond. Initially I was drawn to the smaller versions for portability and cuz I'm primarily on 20 and 40m, but then again the 1000 would at least open up the possibility of 80m. So many variables to consider.
@@timmanwell2538 I have done a lot of ft8, some rtty and psk as well. I enjoy digital as I find it less stressful during contests with all the SSB pileups as I compete against stations with 40 foot towers and 1kw power. I opt for the larger WRC or Chameleon/Alpha match systems as they usually allow for higher power, I usually go no higher than 50 watts.
So... then why didn't you use the Chameleon mil-whip with the WRC? Sounds like a great mashup video of best components. You are already using the MFJ-1974 with the WRC instead of the WRC whip. So why not try this new combo and see what happens?
I use a single radial with the WRC all the time, and get great SWR readings... although I mount the antenna on a stage stand 6 feet above ground, and the end of the counterpoise 4 ft above ground. Also, the counterpoise is on a kite winder, and is tuned.
I'll go with the WRC. Yes cost is a slight factor but I imagine that after using it a few times tweaking it goes faster and faster, especially with an analyzer. Thanks for doing this video!
I’ve had my WRC for a week and used it in the park 3 times. You are correct. The manual adjusting goes faster each time. I have marked the band locations, temporarily, with a small piece of tape.
Thank you for the video!! Have you done a test were you did match up the Chamaeleon antenna system with the silver bullet? I think that would be the best of both worlds.
I did a park activation about a year ago combining the Chameleon mil-whip and whip-extension with the Silver Bullet 1000. I had excellent results: th-cam.com/video/nZISZh_lL-I/w-d-xo.html
How about reviewing the MPAS as a sloper and all of the other configurations possible and showing what contacts you got on a map for each one. There should be quite a bit of variability in the results.
I was on WIPOTA from GNSP, used a Wolf River Coils TIA along with a Xiegu G90. I managed to get 4 WIPOTA stations, but most of my QSOs were also with WA Salmon Run on 20M. I also managed to snag Slovenia on 20M, not bad for 20W! 73 de NM9O
Nice job. I haven't been to that park yet‚ but Gaylord Nelson is on my list. 20 was in pretty good shape that weekend‚ I had my radio set to 50 watts as my battery won't handle much more current draw than that.
Have you ever tried the capacitance hat for the MPAS 2.0. I have just ordered the MPAS 2.0 and the capacitance hat which is suppose to improve performance some. Also, on the Silver Bullet, when adjusting, do you have to have a separate SWR Meter/Antenna analyzer. I have a Wolf River Coil on a Hygain AV-18VS and the antenna works well when tuned, but the collar has to be very precise for good SWR and I have to use my Antenna Analyzer to dial it in when I change bands. A simple tape mark just does not do it. Thoughts on both? Thanks... BTW... thanks for taking the time to make these videos. I understand how much time it takes to take the video and then process it. Nice job!
I still use a Hy-Gain 18-AVS vertical that is nearly 50 years old. Everytime I see a WRC, with that adjustable base loading coil, I think of my old 18-AVS. After all these years, Hy-Gain still sells it as their most economical multi-band vertical antenna. 😀 KZ9V
A question regarding radials -- What is your opinion regarding making three, 3 wire radial bundles for the Wolf River Coils antenna? Specifically, having one element in each bundle cut for 40, 20 and 15 meters? I'm thinking about how a fan dipole antenna works, with energy being radiated from the elements having least reactance. Does this principle hold true for ground radials cut for different, specific resonances or would this tend to detune a resonant vertical antenna? By the way, I really like your camper trailer!
Thanks for the review- I've been on the fence about getting a wolf river coil, and this tipped the scale for me. I already have a 102 whip sitting around and this setup will be perfect for my compromised tiny back yard. 73 de John W7JHC
My back yard is tiny so every winter before it snows I'll set the coil up with a 102 inch stainless whip and three ground radials. I figure no one will bother it til spring
Yes, they all share the same 3/8x24 thread. Here's a video where I use the Mil-whip and Mil-ext with the WRC th-cam.com/video/nZISZh_lL-I/w-d-xo.html, and frequently this past summer I've paired the Chameleon stainless steel extendable whip with the WRC.
I live in an RV park with a power line ca. 15-16 ft behind my Class A motorhome (with an aluminum shell). I don't have the room for a 70-odd ft long wire antenna or to run several radial wires. Can I attach one of these (or another) antenna(s) to the aluminum rear ladder and use the RV as the counterpoise? Any suggestions?
Michael, have you ever tried the MFJ-1979 17' stainless steel whip with the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 vs using the whip that comes with it? It might work better for 40-160m. I just got mine today 9/11/2020 in the mail. I ordered it back at the end of June from HRO.
I've used the Chameleon Mil Whip and the Mil-Ext with the Wolf River Coil. The whips are too long for the 20 meter band but that combination works great for 40 and 80 meters.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I was referring to the MFJ 1979 on the Chameleon MPAS 2.0. I've used the 17' whip with the pole it comes with on 20m I got a 1/2 wavelength with a low SWR without a tuner. it was 1.45:1 on 14.175 Mhz and 1.2:1 on 14.230 Mhz
Any discussion of loading coils should point out the less than desirable RF resistance of stainless steel. When trying to make a shortened antenna more efficient, the last thing you need to do is add several more ohms at the worst possible point - the coil. Oh but it looks shiny - I guess that's good enough.
You bring up a good point. There is a tradeoff between efficiency and durability. Is the added resistance of stainless steel really that much of a concern? Copper may be a better choice but then as the material oxidizes your impedance will increase anyway.
Hi. I owned one of these for a while and I found the exact problem that Don described. On the higher frequencies it wasn't too bad, because you are only using a small portion of the loading coil then. However, my main interest was to use it on 40 and 80m. With the coil set to the 80m position, it uses all of the coil. My on air results were poor so I decided to look into it a bit further. My first test was to key down for 30 seconds on CW after which I felt the coil. I wish I would have used a temperature gun to measure the result, but I can say that the coil was very warm after just 30 seconds of 100W CW. That got me interested in measuring the resistance of the coil. It was a whopping 6 ohms of DC resistance across it at the 80m position!!! By comparison my Hustler 80m super resonator only measured about a tenth of that, and the Hustler is not the gold standard either. I can only assume that RF resistance would even be worse than the DC resistance and when it occurs right at the main current node of the antenna...... well you get the point. I had high hopes for the antenna. It was built well, seemed to be strong, and was easy to use; however it just didn't work well enough on the lower bands. I sold it and moved on. Not trying to bash it, but just relaying my experience. Someone who just uses it on 20m might have a totally different experience. 73
Good information and well displayed. I am very familiar with the area you were at, one of our affiliate LPFM stations is located in Boyd just down the road from Chippewa Falls!
I'm interested in EFHW for SOTA and POTA ops. The ability to due inverted V sloper and vertical (trees) with no counterpoise or radials sounds ideal. But how would it stack up in comparison to the 2 in this video?
While this isn't a definitive test, in my latest POTA video th-cam.com/video/0A89Dd9dFXM/w-d-xo.html we ran an EFHW and the WRC. Both antennas seemed to have similar performance. At least I couldn't hear much of a difference in using one or the other.
Any ham who knows anything about antennas will take his first statement right out of the box. "MPAS is a non resonant antenna with a 2.5 swr or less across the whole band." How much loss is inherent in the MPAS system? The Silver bullet coil system is tuned for near perfect swr. I have worked with both resonant and non resonant antennas. The Silver Bullet can be purchased with multiple collars to leave in place for quickly adjusting across multiple bands. Adjusting your vertical whip and having tuned radials for your band will help you along the way. It did for me. I will play with my Wolf River Coil any day for fine tuning before using the non resonant antenna described here, and carrying along another piece of equipment (antenna tuner). See my QRZ page at AB9PM and 73.
You are correct that there are losses in an non resonant antenna system. But as I say in the video‚ this is not necessarily a bad thing. Field performance of the MPAS was comparable to the SB1000 albeit a bit weaker. Depending on your operating activity‚ convenience and versatility may be preferred over sheer performance.
The higher swr of the mpas means it’s a lower q antenna, which allows it to be more broadbanded. Low swr does not mean it is a more efficient antenna system.
Michael, fantastic video. I'm considering both of these, as the antenna bug is biting. Knowing that both manufacturers sell their products a la carte, I especially perked up at the end when you sorta suggested buying the silver bullet coil and the Chameleon whip! My interest is *exclusively digital modes, so ...if I understand the coil principle correctly, it seems like it could work out pretty well for me, as I wouldn't be 'tuning around' a lot. In general, if you were operating JS8 or PSK31 out in the field, and could only take one of these antennas, which one would you grab???
Since you said you were going to operate mostly digital, personaly I would grab the SB-1000 Platinum because it is still a resonate antenna, but doesn't have the same power limitations as the regular SB-1000. If I remember correctly, 500w SSB, 200w CW and 100w Digital, as apposed to 200w SSB, 100w, CW and 25w Digital on the regular one, and it's only like $60 more for the whole kit then the regular one. The 25 watts is kind of a down side on the regular SB-1000, I'm wondering if they have been somewhat reserved on that so I could push it for FT-8, I wanna run 40w or so. Anyway, the MPAS is nice and all, but I personally would take performance over convenience. I am hopefully getting a SB-1000 soon, so I can't speak for the performance yet, but it sure is more affordable then an MPAS for a budget ham. Hope this helps, 73 de W8IJC!
@@timmanwell2538 Yeah, that was something I was worried about is well. But after some research, from what I found it seems like you get diminishing returns after 25w, for FT8 at least. Probably what I will run mainly for digital when I go portable. I am really looking forward to trying out the SB-1000, it seems to be the best antenna that I could find that would be in my price range. Though I think I will change out the mounting, I want to get a mount so I can put it on a large spike rather than relying on the tripod. I don't want it to fall over, and also I could put the antenna up higher for a lower radiation angle with better mounting.
@@timmanwell2538 Oh and I guess I should have mentioned I'm planning on using an FT-891, though sadly I don't have it yet, unfortunately it's backordered.
@@andrewhamop6665 Don't over look the Buddipole Pro antenna, it will do 100 watts on digital (250 watts SSB) and is also great quality for the $$$. I wouldn't feel naked with either the WRC or the Buddistick and they both will work excellent. I bought the Buddistick prior to the WRC becoming available. I use the 17' whip on 20 meters on up.
Hello excellent video just a question I would like to buy the whip MFJ 1979 but in EHAM the reviews are not good as is your experience with that whip .Thanks Eddy KN4QFD
All stainless whips are inherently fragile and a little bit of care needs to be taken during deployment and teardown. Always collapse a whip from the top down and go slowly so you don't bend it. Ive bent a few whips over the years, but if you take care, you'll receive a long life out of them.
During the winter months I usually set one up in my backyard. I live in a residential neighborhood with a 60x120 foot lot. I have enough space to spread out three radials and I use a 102 inch stainless whip. Being a vertical, it is a little bit noisier than my other antenna (G5RV), but otherwise performs well in the tight space.
It depends on how much space you have available for an antenna. The FT-891 doesn't have a built in tuner, so you may want to look at an end fed half wave antenna which in many cases will operate multi-band without a tuner, and then save up for a tuner to give you more antenna options.
Great info - if only WRC weren't always backordered and out of stock I would probably be a customer instead I have sent a significant amount of money to Chameleon as I own several of their antennas. --... ...-- -.. . -.- .. ..... -... -..- -.
Hello sir how Re you doing? I really enjoy your videos. I have a Cha Mpass as well and to be honest I'm able to have 1.2 swr in 20m 1.1 in 40 and similar on rest of bands. Chameleon is Way waaaay more durable/rugged than a PVC coil. Im not saying the W.River Coils is not good. Im just saying I've see a few of those broken apart. If you ask me chameleon is a keeper. And to be honest at the 80 meter test in tjat particular case the Chameleon must be using it 60' wire element instead of the vertical. Thanks again and 73!
I totally agree with you- construction and durability are second to none. For 80m I would concur that a wire deployment is often better- not many people run 80m vertical so regional or NVIS communication can be more difficult with a vertical antenna. I have a separate video were I feature the antenna in a wire configuration- this particular video was intended as a vertical antenna comparison of the two antennas. I'll be camping again in a few weeks so maybe I'll set up the WR vertical and the MPAS as a wire and run them on 80m.
I had a fun time working the Salmon run. I wish conditions were such that I could have worked stations on 40m also. But hey- we're talking a distance of 1‚500 miles so I'm impressed with that.
Its a good little rig- I'm very impressed with it. I bought mine early this year for field use but as it gets colder the rig will take up a position in the shack for regular use over the winter.
Yeah, I’d like to get one to replaced my Radio Shack HTX-10 so I can work multiple bands. Probably get the ATAS120A or a baby Tarheel to go with it for my truck.
The HTX-10 is a pretty cool little radio. I've got one myself and have made plenty of contacts on 10m mobile with a hamstick back when we were at the peak of the solar cycle.
I heard you can put a module in it to enable pl tones for repeaters that have them. I might look into that. We don’t have a 10 m repeater yet in my area but heard they’re working on it.
The Wolf River I got is terrible. The coil wire wasn't long enough so they add a section overheating and bending the tube when they soldered the ends together so the coil wires actually came in contact with each other making tuning at 20M almost impossible. Then the tuning element is too big for the tube and cants and that causes poor tuning. Finally, you get any moisture on tuning coil you can get a significant shift is SWR, can't leave it outside or in bad conditions. Then finally they don't respond to inquires after you buy it, terrible customer support. There are much better options out there, don't buy.
I'm sorry to hear you had troubles with your coil. As for the moisture issue- I had the coil up in my backyard for an entire winter and didn't notice any big SWR shifts. But I guess snow and ice would present a different problem than rain.
First of all with Wisconsin being in lock down are you sorry you are a city council member in your town? My WRC Silver Bullet 1000 TIA Mega Pod antenna came in the mail today. Since you are all from Wisconsin do you know each other. I am hoping for good weather here soon so I can get outside and try this thing out. I don't think you really favored one or the other but actually because of this video I believe you are leaning to your Silver Bullet. Now if you could engineer a motorized jack screw on each side of this collar so you could adjust it with out getting off your butt to do so we would be in business.
I do know Gary and Terry from Wolf River and we've frequently chatted when we meet up at hamfests. The antennas are good performers and I've always been pleased with them in the field. As for City Council‚ the latest events have sure made life interesting. We had a common council meeting last evening- we changed our council rules so that members could use technology to remote into the meeting. This gets to be interesting as you also need to stay legal in regards to open meeting laws. A good chunk of the meeting spent was passing resolutions declaring a local state of emergency and ratifying mutual aid agreements. Fortunately our county has only one case of COVID-19 so far‚ but the southeast part of the state has been hit very hard.
Thanks!
I use a Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet TIA antenna, very successfully. For me, cost was a factor and the Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet TIA antenna does the job! Thanks Michael, this is KX4EZ, Esteban, Jacksonville, Fla
The big draw to the Wolf River Coil is its price. When I purchased my coil‚ I first put it on the air with bits and pieces of wire and parts I had laying around. To fully outfit the SB1000 is about half the cost of the Chameleon MPAS‚ but then again the Chameleon can do things the Wolf River can't.
I have experimented with my WRC TIA ANTENNA using wire and found it also works well in different configurations. The problem becomes in a state park, where you cannot hang/tie anything to trees. There, the WRC SB-1000 shines. KX4EZ
I also went with the Wolf River Coils antenna mainly due to cost. Yes, I have to re tune, but I purchased a set of two rings. Finding the sweet spot for each band really helps.
The MPAS 2.0 comes with a 25' and a 73' long wire which can be used for radiator or counterpoise. So if you really want to tune the unit just with the counterpoise then use the 73' and roll or unroll the counterpoise until you obtain the lowest SWR. If you do so, you won't need the tuner.
Also remember that if you're using a SINGLE counterpoise then the MPAS will have more gain toward the direction the counterpoise is pointing.
If you've trees in your area and you want to maximize the antenna performance, then you'll use the 73' long wire as radiator and 25' long as counterpoise and set the 73' in a sloper configuration and extend the counterpoise at the opposite side of the 73' long radiator. That will allow the unit to cover everything from 6M to 160M with a tuner.
Thanks for the clarifications and I'll continue to do more activities with the MPAS- trying out additional radials and a counterpoise for enhance operation. As I dig more and more into the MPAS 2.0 I become increasingly impressed with its versatility and how individual components can be utilized in different ways to provide a field communication solution for a particular situation.
Thank you Carl your products are beyond than AWESOME. The quality on Cha Mini Hybrid have no competition.
Thanks, Michael. Based on your review I purchased the Wolf River Coil "Take It Along" and have been very happy.
Thanks for the info. I'm homebrewing a "silver bullet" for POTA and home use. My fingers don't have the dexterity to build radios, but I can build antennas just fine.
Mike, I think this the best I've ever heard your delivery. Great job.
A very good, honest and accurate review! From all my research your findings are dead on with info I have found on these two antennas. I try and keep within a reasonable budget for my HAM radio gear so, I went with the far less expensive Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet 1000 TIA. As you mentioned, it requires a little more hands on, but that is part of the fun. There can be too much hands free automation these days IMHO and that takes the fun out of it. I plan to try out my Wolf River Coil in a local park this weekend! 73!
Michael, this is a great review. I own both as well. I would say however that when you say Wolf River Coil “wins” on price I think it would be more accurate to just say the Wolf River is less expensive. The MPAS costs more but it’s got a lot more capability in terms of versatile set up options. It’s like having multiple systems. Thanks again for a great review.
Michael, this is one of your best videos for those interested in portable operations and emcomm. You hit the nail on the head at 7:47 when you identified the losses within the chameleon (and other brands) 5:1 matching transformer. The issue you identified at 18:39 about having to repeat your transmission while using that antenna (and the associated need for relay stations) has been identified as a risk in the AARs for several recent emcomm activations. At 9:20 you mentioned a deficit of 2 S-units using the chameleon (approximately 12dB of loss)...which is actually higher than what is suggested by some technical articles related to that transformer design (maybe the combination of the transformer, tuner to correct the mismatch, and lack of appropriate counterpoise/radials?). Anyway, I use a chameleon SS17 telescoping 17ft stainless steel whip with a homebrew coil (similar to the wolf river coils design)...it works well for me! Chameleon's manufacturing capability is clearly excellent, and their products are ALWAYS well constructed (from a mechanical perspective). I hope that everyone who is in the market for one of these 2 systems watches your video and thinks critically about the content you shared! A combination of the two systems makes the ideal portable antenna (effective and quick to deploy).
I have the Cameleon antenna system, icluding their EmComm wire antenna for10-80. I've found the wire more efficient than the whip, which is not surprising. The inverted L or inverted V and Sloper set up's work especially well when the counterpoise is well oriented in a direction of special interest. I've wanted to have a silver bullet in spite of the more complex set up requirements. Obviously you proved the point that a resonate antenna is superiour to a non-resonate antenna as a general principle. Every time we make a compromise something is lost so taking that into account is also important when considering if these antenna's are suitable for the operating objectives of HAM's who wish to have a portable quickly deployed multi-band antenna. I don't think there is a one size that fits all when it comes to meeting such objectives.
I said something similar in my post, seems there is a trade-off between fiddling with the coil vs the transformer which might have more losses.
Great job describing the benefits of each.
Great information, I recently purchased the Wolf River Coil myself and wondered how it compares to other antenna's so this was very interesting to me. Thanks for the video always enjoy your video's and you always have a wealth of information. 73 Glenn ZL1MY
I too recently got a WRC TIA antenna. As a new operator, price was absolutely a factor. I'm glad to see it performed well, and I don't mind adjusting the coil. I even looked at the MPAS 2.0, but the price was hard for me to justify. Thanks for doing the comparison!
The CHA MPAS 2.0 is currently used by the USMC, National Guards and the US ARMY. Few other branches have showed their interests at using the CHA PAS 2.0 for the COMM units.
That's an excellent testimonial to the ruggedness and quality of this antenna system.
Yup! Here is where I said "It's NOT the arrow is the Indian"
You need to Know what are you doing investigate read the manual. Sadly not everybody likes to read. On these days everybody wants all easy. Fast and right know.
The manual is very good and gives you lots of lots of deployment options. But I've also found that due to the versatility‚ a bit of experimentation is in order as there are some configurations that aren't mentioned.
I'm sure they do. Problem is, I'm not just looking for an easy, idiot proof antenna to set up for NVIS work. (I already have that. A $30.00 home made dipole) I'm looking to make the most contacts that I can with the best signal strength I can given conditions. For the many reasons listed above, the MPAS antenna does not fit the bill.
I've wondered for a long time how those two different types of systems would compare. Thanks for the video. Super helpful.
The comments and video where excellent! Great job on creating a useful discussion. Currently dealing with similar hardware.
Awesome content and presentation. I have both antennas and like the idea of using the MPAS mast on the Wolf /river Coils.
I just received my Wolf River Coils 'TIA' a couple of weeks ago, and I highly recommend it. I would opt for the $20 dual collar option, also. I'll probably own the MPAS system too, eventually, as it's been proven in the field by many operators.
I want to try aluminum tent poles with shock cord. A guy on eBay sells nice stainless ground mounts with a BNC or SO-239 to 3/8 threads. Just got one and may try diy mpas type antenna. Also have a Wolf River coil for it.
Good lord, Chameleon is really proud of their antennaS
Thanks, your video was very informative. I'm new to this and am kinda getting into ham for emergency needs.
I've selected the icom 7300, study manuals, etc, but I've yet to figure out a portable but useful antenna system. This helped a lot, but Im definitely open to any suggestions or advice
What you should consider if you are looking for an antenna system for emergency communications is the ability to effectively communicate within a 300 mile radius. That means being able to put out a strong signal on 40, 60, and 80 meters and being able to deploy the antenna in an NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave) method so that other stations within that 300 mile radius will hear you. Typically wire antennas will be your best bet.
Most of my ham radio camping and POTA videos, while focusing on cross country communications, illustrate techniques that can be easily applied to low band near field operation. I hope this gives you a starting point.
Just dropping a comment. I’ve watched a lot of your videos, and I greatly appreciate the effort your put into them. Thanks! - 73, Chris
Thank you so much and you're welcome.
Can you check to see how well the Mil Whip with and without the extension work and tune?
As always, I love your vids! So,....here's the question. Let's say the primary application is DIGIAL MODES activations in a portable/POTA type setting.... where there's not a lot of frequency changing, but rather, picking a frequency and sitting on it for a while. Would that scenario change your 'go-to' choice between these 2 antennas? Also, you mention "in an ideal world one would mate the Chameleon whip to the WRC coil." Given that both are available from their manufacturer ala carte, ... the "idea" really could be realized, yes??? [assuming the chameleon whip can be mounted/threaded onto the WRC]. As a person who doesn't yet have either, I could buy both pieces from the start.
Very nice review (as usual). Thanks for posting!
Hi Michael, thank you for being one of the only channels to point out the two "S" unit difference between the MPAS and the WRC antennas. I'd rather have a better signal (the WRC or Buddistick), one where we don't have to repeat exchanged info. I can make or buy an end fed or dipole and still be many dollars ahead of the game using the WRC antenna and wire antennas. All three being resonate with no tuner required. All three radiating almost all the power. At a $550.00 price point, the so called versatility of the MPAS antenna with it's lower radiated power makes zero sense to me. Other channels give glowing reports on the MPAS but fail to mention the decrease of 2 "S" units over the resonate antennas. To me, this is a big deal as many don't realize that even though many contacts are made with both antennas, the quality of the contacts is not as good with the MPAS. Two "S" units makes a big difference, especially when near the noise floor. If getting on the air four different ways with one antenna is the most important thing to you (you can you can do the same with the WRC or Buddistick and two cheap wire antennas), and you don't mind paying big $$$ for a coil and resistor in a small enclosed unit, then maybe the MPAS will work for you. Not for me. Michael, thank you for pointing out the facts and not just being a gear pimp like too many other channels.
For what the MPAS vertical does, it does well; that is, sets up fast and allows for band switching with a minimum of readjustment. The price you pay is 12dB or 2 S units of signal loss. Not a big deal when the band is open, but can be a killer with the wildly invariable conditions we've had of late.
I think many of the reviewers lean on FT8 and WSPR to test the effectiveness of an antenna, and since those are considered weak signal modes, the losses get overlooked and you receive an exaggerated picture of performance.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I would agree. You can make a coat hanger look good with whisper. Problem is, some of the larger channels really are not mentioning whisper or digital, but giving glowing reports on POTA activations. Yet none ever use this antenna when not doing a antenna review. There is a dishonesty through omission in their reviews. They know the antenna is at least 12 db down, yet say nothing. Thank You Michael for giving honest reviews.
I just ordered the MPAS 2.0 from Martin Lynch in the U.K and they're out of stock. These are selling fast, the Chameleon site is OOS too so I can only imagine it's going to take time to get them back in stock.
I have used the Super Antenna MP1 for nearly a year when I get time to work portable which hasn't been much this Winter. The Super Antenna has greatly exceeded my expectations for a 7 foot antenna. With the 80m Coil a few nights ago I made a contact 1000 miles away, a 7 foot antenna ? yes I was shocked ! SWR is tricky to get below 2.1 on 80m and bandwidth is narrow, understandably. Maybe more radials would help but I don't work 80m when portable during the day, I thought the MP1 would be a dummy load on 80m but it works, obviously a compromise but it works.
So, why did I order the MPAS 2.0 ? well, in reality, tuning is a pain in the ass, having to go back and forth for each band change or to adjust at a different portion of the band gets old, even with an antenna analyser, disconnecting and reconnecting the antenna/analyser every time is a pain. So this is ultimately what leaned me towards the MPAS 2.0, The MP1 is a great antenna and it breaks down into an incredibly compact size, it's very well constructed and has not failed me once, with the FT-891 I always make contacts with it with the stock whip. Believe me, using the MPAS 2.0 with a tuner to flatten out some swr is not going to be a compromise, when I get a break from the Family I want to set up, make contacts and go home and spend less time fumbling about with tuning.
I also have Resonant EFHW with 49:1 from hyendfed.nl, the mini 100 watt 4 band and it works great with QRP 5 watts with my Xiegu X5105. But messing with trees or my fibreglass pole can be another pain in the ass, you need something to attach the mast to etc. I am a big fan of the EFHW and 49:1, no radials needed, no tuner and no counterpoise, just a good ground. My base antenna is the myantennas.com EFHW 8010 and it's an excellent performer and gives me good DX a seriously great Base antenna.
Low SWR doesn't tell the full story, I could have a wire antenna 10 feet off the ground with a low SWR and it wouldn't perform well.
There are other reasons I might want to use the MPAS 2.0, I sometimes want to work from my conservatory in the Summer when the weather is finer and just operate there in the pleasant evening Sun without having to run in and out to change bands. Or operate in my Mothers for an hour when I visit with the Kids etc.
I can't wait to try out the MPAS, when I go portable I'm not necessarily looking to be the best or strongest station, with limited time I want to setup quickly and make contacts and spend less time running back and forth to the antenna to tune it and if it performs as good as the MP1 or better without having to physically tune for each band or sometimes a few times, disconnect coax to connect to analyser, disconnect analyser, connect coax etc then I'll be quite happy indeed and seeing some videos I think I'll be quite happy indeed.
I’m still learning… is it correct that the Silver Bullet with it’s manual adjustment will have less losses than the MPAS with it’s magic transformer? Or is that an oversimplification?
I already have the JPC-12 which is like a poor man’s Bullet and may consider one or the other. However this is early days and I’d like to experiment with end fed random wire before I decide on the next thing. The MPAS-2 costs $850 in Australia. The Silver Bullet is about $250 or something. There is also the Big Kansas Coil.
I recently purchased a WRC vertical at the Orlando Hamcation to compare against my PAC-12 Antenna. The Pac-12 is hands down more portable (I store it in a small tool roll) and is also a tapped-loaded coil vertical with radials. Comparing them A-B on 20m and 40m, they were indistinguishable to me. The Wolf River coil is definitely more rugged. My final verdict was that I'd use the WRC for POTA or FD type operations where portability was not a major concern, and use the PAC-12 for hiking/backpacking. Although I can see the overall versatility and convenience of a non-resonant antenna, I have very portable homemade wire antennas that would render the added expense of the MPAS system as a major barrier.
73 de AC7NA
What a great review Michael, thank you! I have the WRSB and love it, It is very efficient and not too costly. I am currently looking at the MPAS for portability and setup options, it just seems like a very steep price. If someone is looking into the WRSB w/102 whip, you will not be disappointed, it works excellent! I leave the whip at 102" and adjust the collar accordingly. I pre-marked frequency ranges down the side and it has worked great for 'preset' collar adjustments. I also ADDED 3 METAL TENT SPIKES, with curved top hook, to hook in the legs and hold down because with the 102" whip it will tip over when ground mounted. I have that clamp mount, didn't even think to use it :) ! I'd hate to have to have a tuner but I have been looking/wanting to get the MPAS for the versatility and compactness. My personal hesitations are 1. MPAS Cost, 2. Tuner/No tuner.... Time to sell off some other equipment and just get the MPAS 2.0. :)
I hear your comment about the tent spikes in order to keep the WRC's legs steady. Question, do you have the standard ground tripod or the larger 'mega' tripod?? Probably either one would benefit from your tent spike solution. 73.
@@timmanwell2538 I have the standard three metal pegs that come with it and screw into the coil base. But the metal spikes with a curve not slant hook work perfect.
@@prephampaul Thanks for the info. Have you used your WRC for digital modes? I'm almost exclusively into JS8 and PSK31, tho sometimes I admit 'fishing' in the FT8 pond. Initially I was drawn to the smaller versions for portability and cuz I'm primarily on 20 and 40m, but then again the 1000 would at least open up the possibility of 80m. So many variables to consider.
@@timmanwell2538 I have done a lot of ft8, some rtty and psk as well. I enjoy digital as I find it less stressful during contests with all the SSB pileups as I compete against stations with 40 foot towers and 1kw power. I opt for the larger WRC or Chameleon/Alpha match systems as they usually allow for higher power, I usually go no higher than 50 watts.
So... then why didn't you use the Chameleon mil-whip with the WRC? Sounds like a great mashup video of best components. You are already using the MFJ-1974 with the WRC instead of the WRC whip. So why not try this new combo and see what happens?
I use a single radial with the WRC all the time, and get great SWR readings... although I mount the antenna on a stage stand 6 feet above ground, and the end of the counterpoise 4 ft above ground. Also, the counterpoise is on a kite winder, and is tuned.
Yeah‚ your mileage will vary with counterpoises. With one‚ I can't get below 1.5:1. Two is better and three is almost always a perfect match.
I'll go with the WRC. Yes cost is a slight factor but I imagine that after using it a few times tweaking it goes faster and faster, especially with an analyzer. Thanks for doing this video!
I’ve had my WRC for a week and used it in the park 3 times. You are correct. The manual adjusting goes faster each time. I have marked the band locations, temporarily, with a small piece of tape.
Have you tried mating the loading coil with the mpas whip and ground spike? That would make an interesting setup.
Yes I have. Ran it that way in the Parks on the Air activation: th-cam.com/video/nZISZh_lL-I/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video!! Have you done a test were you did match up the Chamaeleon antenna system with the silver bullet? I think that would be the best of both worlds.
I did a park activation about a year ago combining the Chameleon mil-whip and whip-extension with the Silver Bullet 1000. I had excellent results: th-cam.com/video/nZISZh_lL-I/w-d-xo.html
Terrific job Michael you number one
How about reviewing the MPAS as a sloper and all of the other configurations possible and showing what contacts you got on a map for each one. There should be quite a bit of variability in the results.
I don't think there would be the amount of difference you think there would be.
Great video thank you very helpful 🙏👍
Great video Michael. Really appreciate all of your videos. Perhaps you could do a winklink raspberry pi tutorial?
I was on WIPOTA from GNSP, used a Wolf River Coils TIA along with a Xiegu G90. I managed to get 4 WIPOTA stations, but most of my QSOs were also with WA Salmon Run on 20M. I also managed to snag Slovenia on 20M, not bad for 20W! 73 de NM9O
Nice job. I haven't been to that park yet‚ but Gaylord Nelson is on my list. 20 was in pretty good shape that weekend‚ I had my radio set to 50 watts as my battery won't handle much more current draw than that.
Great video thanks
Great review, thanks. 👍
Excellent and objective video! Thank you!
What does a wolf river 1000 coil cost
Very informative! Field OPS is the true test of portable components. THX & 73.
Have you ever tried the capacitance hat for the MPAS 2.0. I have just ordered the MPAS 2.0 and the capacitance hat which is suppose to improve performance some. Also, on the Silver Bullet, when adjusting, do you have to have a separate SWR Meter/Antenna analyzer. I have a Wolf River Coil on a Hygain AV-18VS and the antenna works well when tuned, but the collar has to be very precise for good SWR and I have to use my Antenna Analyzer to dial it in when I change bands. A simple tape mark just does not do it. Thoughts on both? Thanks... BTW... thanks for taking the time to make these videos. I understand how much time it takes to take the video and then process it. Nice job!
I still use a Hy-Gain 18-AVS vertical that is nearly 50 years old. Everytime I see a WRC, with that adjustable base loading coil, I think of my old 18-AVS. After all these years, Hy-Gain still sells it as their most economical multi-band vertical antenna. 😀
KZ9V
A question regarding radials -- What is your opinion regarding making three, 3 wire radial bundles for the Wolf River Coils antenna? Specifically, having one element in each bundle cut for 40, 20 and 15 meters? I'm thinking about how a fan dipole antenna works, with energy being radiated from the elements having least reactance. Does this principle hold true for ground radials cut for different, specific resonances or would this tend to detune a resonant vertical antenna? By the way, I really like your camper trailer!
Thanks for the review- I've been on the fence about getting a wolf river coil, and this tipped the scale for me. I already have a 102 whip sitting around and this setup will be perfect for my compromised tiny back yard. 73 de John W7JHC
My back yard is tiny so every winter before it snows I'll set the coil up with a 102 inch stainless whip and three ground radials. I figure no one will bother it til spring
Pleaser advise the source for the "jaw mount", thank you.
You can get them online. Amazon has them: amzn.to/3yvF7Et You will also need the 3/8x24 stud which for some reason is sold separately: amzn.to/3bFoPQo
So you mentioned at the end the possibility of mating the MPAS whip on the Wolf River Coil, does it in fact use the same threading? thank and 73
Yes, they all share the same 3/8x24 thread. Here's a video where I use the Mil-whip and Mil-ext with the WRC th-cam.com/video/nZISZh_lL-I/w-d-xo.html, and frequently this past summer I've paired the Chameleon stainless steel extendable whip with the WRC.
it's okay to look away from the camera for a sec.
Good job! Thanks to your video I will be getting the Wolf River Coil Antenna for portable work! 73 W3AMT
I live in an RV park with a power line ca. 15-16 ft behind my Class A motorhome (with an aluminum shell). I don't have the room for a 70-odd ft long wire antenna or to run several radial wires. Can I attach one of these (or another) antenna(s) to the aluminum rear ladder and use the RV as the counterpoise? Any suggestions?
Michael, have you ever tried the MFJ-1979 17' stainless steel whip with the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 vs using the whip that comes with it? It might work better for 40-160m. I just got mine today 9/11/2020 in the mail. I ordered it back at the end of June from HRO.
I've used the Chameleon Mil Whip and the Mil-Ext with the Wolf River Coil. The whips are too long for the 20 meter band but that combination works great for 40 and 80 meters.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I was referring to the MFJ 1979 on the Chameleon MPAS 2.0. I've used the 17' whip with the pole it comes with on 20m I got a 1/2 wavelength with a low SWR without a tuner. it was 1.45:1 on 14.175 Mhz and 1.2:1 on 14.230 Mhz
Thanks for the clarification. That's a pretty good match, I'll have to try it out
Great video
Any discussion of loading coils should point out the less than desirable RF resistance of stainless steel. When trying to make a shortened antenna more efficient, the last thing you need to do is add several more ohms at the worst possible point - the coil. Oh but it looks shiny - I guess that's good enough.
You bring up a good point. There is a tradeoff between efficiency and durability. Is the added resistance of stainless steel really that much of a concern? Copper may be a better choice but then as the material oxidizes your impedance will increase anyway.
Hi. I owned one of these for a while and I found the exact problem that Don described. On the higher frequencies it wasn't too bad, because you are only using a small portion of the loading coil then. However, my main interest was to use it on 40 and 80m. With the coil set to the 80m position, it uses all of the coil. My on air results were poor so I decided to look into it a bit further. My first test was to key down for 30 seconds on CW after which I felt the coil. I wish I would have used a temperature gun to measure the result, but I can say that the coil was very warm after just 30 seconds of 100W CW. That got me interested in measuring the resistance of the coil. It was a whopping 6 ohms of DC resistance across it at the 80m position!!! By comparison my Hustler 80m super resonator only measured about a tenth of that, and the Hustler is not the gold standard either. I can only assume that RF resistance would even be worse than the DC resistance and when it occurs right at the main current node of the antenna...... well you get the point. I had high hopes for the antenna. It was built well, seemed to be strong, and was easy to use; however it just didn't work well enough on the lower bands. I sold it and moved on. Not trying to bash it, but just relaying my experience. Someone who just uses it on 20m might have a totally different experience. 73
@eric thefathead A Wolf River Coil SB-1000 in the mobile version and actually also in the portable version (sabre or something I think it was called).
Good information and well displayed. I am very familiar with the area you were at, one of our affiliate LPFM stations is located in Boyd just down the road from Chippewa Falls!
The Wolfriver antenna reminds me of a Webster Band Spanner antenna.
I'm interested in EFHW for SOTA and POTA ops. The ability to due inverted V sloper and vertical (trees) with no counterpoise or radials sounds ideal. But how would it stack up in comparison to the 2 in this video?
While this isn't a definitive test, in my latest POTA video th-cam.com/video/0A89Dd9dFXM/w-d-xo.html we ran an EFHW and the WRC. Both antennas seemed to have similar performance. At least I couldn't hear much of a difference in using one or the other.
I have a question for you? for your setup what kind of Coax are you running?
I use RG-8X for my HF portable work. I've got a variety or 25 and 50 foot pieces that I'll use depending on the setup.
Any ham who knows anything about antennas will take his first statement right out of the box. "MPAS is a non resonant antenna with a 2.5 swr or less across the whole band." How much loss is inherent in the MPAS system?
The Silver bullet coil system is tuned for near perfect swr. I have worked with both resonant and non resonant antennas. The Silver Bullet can be purchased with multiple collars to leave in place for quickly adjusting across multiple bands. Adjusting your vertical whip and having tuned radials for your band will help you along the way. It did for me. I will play with my Wolf River Coil any day for fine tuning before using the non resonant antenna described here, and carrying along another piece of equipment (antenna tuner). See my QRZ page at AB9PM and 73.
You are correct that there are losses in an non resonant antenna system. But as I say in the video‚ this is not necessarily a bad thing. Field performance of the MPAS was comparable to the SB1000 albeit a bit weaker. Depending on your operating activity‚ convenience and versatility may be preferred over sheer performance.
The higher swr of the mpas means it’s a lower q antenna, which allows it to be more broadbanded. Low swr does not mean it is a more efficient antenna system.
Michael, fantastic video. I'm considering both of these, as the antenna bug is biting. Knowing that both manufacturers sell their products a la carte, I especially perked up at the end when you sorta suggested buying the silver bullet coil and the Chameleon whip! My interest is *exclusively digital modes, so ...if I understand the coil principle correctly, it seems like it could work out pretty well for me, as I wouldn't be 'tuning around' a lot. In general, if you were operating JS8 or PSK31 out in the field, and could only take one of these antennas, which one would you grab???
Since you said you were going to operate mostly digital, personaly I would grab the SB-1000 Platinum because it is still a resonate antenna, but doesn't have the same power limitations as the regular SB-1000. If I remember correctly, 500w SSB, 200w CW and 100w Digital, as apposed to 200w SSB, 100w, CW and 25w Digital on the regular one, and it's only like $60 more for the whole kit then the regular one. The 25 watts is kind of a down side on the regular SB-1000, I'm wondering if they have been somewhat reserved on that so I could push it for FT-8, I wanna run 40w or so. Anyway, the MPAS is nice and all, but I personally would take performance over convenience. I am hopefully getting a SB-1000 soon, so I can't speak for the performance yet, but it sure is more affordable then an MPAS for a budget ham. Hope this helps, 73 de W8IJC!
@@andrewhamop6665 EXCELLENT point about the platinum. Generally, I don't go over 40w when operating portable, ...but still, something to think about.
@@timmanwell2538 Yeah, that was something I was worried about is well. But after some research, from what I found it seems like you get diminishing returns after 25w, for FT8 at least. Probably what I will run mainly for digital when I go portable. I am really looking forward to trying out the SB-1000, it seems to be the best antenna that I could find that would be in my price range. Though I think I will change out the mounting, I want to get a mount so I can put it on a large spike rather than relying on the tripod. I don't want it to fall over, and also I could put the antenna up higher for a lower radiation angle with better mounting.
@@timmanwell2538 Oh and I guess I should have mentioned I'm planning on using an FT-891, though sadly I don't have it yet, unfortunately it's backordered.
@@andrewhamop6665 Don't over look the Buddipole Pro antenna, it will do 100 watts on digital (250 watts SSB) and is also great quality for the $$$. I wouldn't feel naked with either the WRC or the Buddistick and they both will work excellent. I bought the Buddistick prior to the WRC becoming available. I use the 17' whip on 20 meters on up.
Hello excellent video just a question I would like to buy the whip MFJ 1979 but in EHAM the reviews are not good as is your experience with that whip .Thanks Eddy KN4QFD
All stainless whips are inherently fragile and a little bit of care needs to be taken during deployment and teardown. Always collapse a whip from the top down and go slowly so you don't bend it. Ive bent a few whips over the years, but if you take care, you'll receive a long life out of them.
Thanks so much for you answer!!!!
Have you ever compared these to the SuperAntenna vertical?
Nevermind...If I would have waited 30 seconds before typing that I would have an answer. 73's
The SuperAntenna is a similar design to the Wolf River. I do have access to an MP1 and may do a video specific to it yet this fall.
the super antenna is Chinese made junk and overpriced. At least the wolf river coil is American made by local hams which is nice.
How would you rate the silver bullet in an urban environment with limited space?
During the winter months I usually set one up in my backyard. I live in a residential neighborhood with a 60x120 foot lot. I have enough space to spread out three radials and I use a 102 inch stainless whip. Being a vertical, it is a little bit noisier than my other antenna (G5RV), but otherwise performs well in the tight space.
Good comparison, appreciate the work... What other whips will fit the Wolfriver coil ?? ??? Thanks , KD9NIT Glenn
The coil has a 3/8 x 24 nut on it‚ so any whip with a matching stud could be used.
Excellent thank you
What base antenna would you recommend for the yaesu FT891 that won't break my bank account 73
It depends on how much space you have available for an antenna. The FT-891 doesn't have a built in tuner, so you may want to look at an end fed half wave antenna which in many cases will operate multi-band without a tuner, and then save up for a tuner to give you more antenna options.
@@KB9VBRAntennas thank you so much for your input. BTW the J-pole 2 meter antenna I purchased from you works great very good SWR 73 KE8MWQ
Nice trailer!
Great info - if only WRC weren't always backordered and out of stock I would probably be a customer instead I have sent a significant amount of money to Chameleon as I own several of their antennas. --... ...-- -.. . -.- .. ..... -... -..- -.
Hello sir how Re you doing? I really enjoy your videos. I have a Cha Mpass as well and to be honest I'm able to have 1.2 swr in 20m 1.1 in 40 and similar on rest of bands. Chameleon is Way waaaay more durable/rugged than a PVC coil. Im not saying the W.River Coils is not good. Im just saying I've see a few of those broken apart. If you ask me chameleon is a keeper. And to be honest at the 80 meter test in tjat particular case the Chameleon must be using it 60' wire element instead of the vertical. Thanks again and 73!
I totally agree with you- construction and durability are second to none. For 80m I would concur that a wire deployment is often better- not many people run 80m vertical so regional or NVIS communication can be more difficult with a vertical antenna. I have a separate video were I feature the antenna in a wire configuration- this particular video was intended as a vertical antenna comparison of the two antennas. I'll be camping again in a few weeks so maybe I'll set up the WR vertical and the MPAS as a wire and run them on 80m.
@@KB9VBRAntennas i just ordered a chameleon mpas 2 i plan to use a 10m sota pole for 40/60/80/160m and the hi bands just use the mill whips
It looks like your fence needs to be restarted. (spinning beachball)
Great information. Thanks for supporting our Salmon Run. KJ7IEA. Love my J-Pole
I had a fun time working the Salmon run. I wish conditions were such that I could have worked stations on 40m also. But hey- we're talking a distance of 1‚500 miles so I'm impressed with that.
So you pay for convenience in two ways.
Very well done thanks de wb8idy north carolina
Great video Michael, gosh I need to save up some money and get that 891! 73 de N4EJM
Its a good little rig- I'm very impressed with it. I bought mine early this year for field use but as it gets colder the rig will take up a position in the shack for regular use over the winter.
Yeah, I’d like to get one to replaced my Radio Shack HTX-10 so I can work multiple bands. Probably get the ATAS120A or a baby Tarheel to go with it for my truck.
The HTX-10 is a pretty cool little radio. I've got one myself and have made plenty of contacts on 10m mobile with a hamstick back when we were at the peak of the solar cycle.
I heard you can put a module in it to enable pl tones for repeaters that have them. I might look into that. We don’t have a 10 m repeater yet in my area but heard they’re working on it.
Apples and Oranges
The Wolf River I got is terrible. The coil wire wasn't long enough so they add a section overheating and bending the tube when they soldered the ends together so the coil wires actually came in contact with each other making tuning at 20M almost impossible. Then the tuning element is too big for the tube and cants and that causes poor tuning. Finally, you get any moisture on tuning coil you can get a significant shift is SWR, can't leave it outside or in bad conditions. Then finally they don't respond to inquires after you buy it, terrible customer support. There are much better options out there, don't buy.
I'm sorry to hear you had troubles with your coil. As for the moisture issue- I had the coil up in my backyard for an entire winter and didn't notice any big SWR shifts. But I guess snow and ice would present a different problem than rain.
Wolf river all the way
First of all with Wisconsin being in lock down are you sorry you are a city council member in your town? My WRC Silver Bullet 1000 TIA Mega Pod antenna came in the mail today. Since you are all from Wisconsin do you know each other. I am hoping for good weather here soon so I can get outside and try this thing out. I don't think you really favored one or the other but actually because of this video I believe you are leaning to your Silver Bullet. Now if you could engineer a motorized jack screw on each side of this collar so you could adjust it with out getting off your butt to do so we would be in business.
I do know Gary and Terry from Wolf River and we've frequently chatted when we meet up at hamfests. The antennas are good performers and I've always been pleased with them in the field. As for City Council‚ the latest events have sure made life interesting. We had a common council meeting last evening- we changed our council rules so that members could use technology to remote into the meeting. This gets to be interesting as you also need to stay legal in regards to open meeting laws. A good chunk of the meeting spent was passing resolutions declaring a local state of emergency and ratifying mutual aid agreements. Fortunately our county has only one case of COVID-19 so far‚ but the southeast part of the state has been hit very hard.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Thanks for the update. Wow!
Listened along until he got to that $500 part.
LARRY.. going to buy some of your antennas soon.73 N9SOC CATCH US ON FUSION 79602 NORTH CAROLINA LINK ...love your video's take care..pat