Medieval Rondel Dagger - THE ORIGINAL
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- For as long as I remember I have loved the A726 Rondel dagger in the Wallace Collection. It is a beautiful and iconic dagger and an absolute favourite of mine, but they have also wondered how well they work, so I have made three films about this dagger and this is the second. There first film in this series "Making the rondel' can be found here • Medieval Rondel Dagger...
Luckily I got to handle and measure the dagger and luckily I have the skills to make one - so I did. In the first film you get to see every step of the manufacture.
This is the second and I take my dagger to the Wallace Collection and compare it with the original with Dr Toby Capwell and in the third I hand this dagger over to Matt Easton who mercilessly attacks fabric, mail and plate armour samples to see how easy or hard they are to defeat
You can find budget reproductions of this dagger here todcutler.com/...
The full range of Tod Cutler weapons, including swords, here todcutler.com/...
Custom pieces like the dagger made here can be found on these pages todsworkshop.com or a Tods Workshop version here todsworkshop.c...
Leather work by Lisa Ellett
Music by J.Sayles
www.jsayles.com...
You can find The Wallace Collection here www.wallacecol...
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I would love to see an x-ray of the original. Combining the lack of peen with the line of thought that was voiced in the video about the florets and rivet being functional, I wonder if the rondels have collars on them that slide, tight, over the tang, and the rivet secures both rondels and the grip to the tang.
That is the kind of thing I was thinking, but I could not see how it could all be made to be kept tight and lovely even at the time let alone 600 years later. But I have just thought.....I was talking to an oak timber framer (husband of the the lady who made the leather for this) and he was explaining about offset holes to tighten joints and this could well have been done here, it was just a method I had not heard of or thought about. Basically if you have two outer plates and one inner one and make the holes very slightly not line up, when you hammer the pin through it pulls everything together. This could well work. Pain in the butt for what reason?, but it would work if done right
@@tods_workshop Is it possible the handle wood is actually two-piece and the decomposition has fused them together? Then the brass could be hiding the seam and the pin would make sense.
@@tods_workshop Could it be that the tang is peened only to the lower half of the upper roundel during construction and then the top half is only held on by the brazing? I.e. the peen is hidden inside it.
@@tods_workshop also, the gaps is armor tend to be horizontal in nature. Eye slots, neck opening, abdomen opening, etc…. Might explain the 90degree edge.
If the holes in the two tang ends were offset and oblong, the rivet being pounded through would bring the two pieces together against the wood very tightly. I’ve seen farm implements connected in this manner. Maybe that’s what they did?
At 5:37 Toby seems like he's very keen to test out whether the dagger is _"still as usable as it was 600 years ago."_ Worryingly keen.
had the exact same thing in mind, he felt a bit stabby, as we all would in that moment :D
Just paused the video to see if anyone else in the comments thought that too lol
London, innit.
@@rogerborg Going by Toby's accent it might be more a case _"LA, bruh"_
@@QuantumHistorian Actually, I think it's more "Canada, eh"
Theory on the construction, not sure how plausible it is:
There's actually two tangs, one from the blade, the other brazed in between the two caps on the rondel end, letting you have the completely smooth top. They sit next to each other inside the wooden part, and there is a hole in each one where those brass florets are hiding a pin to go through the whole thing. Misalign those holes slightly and you can get those two inner tangs both under a bit of pre-stress that will keep things from going anywhere when you hit the pommel.
A cup of tea, a digestive biscuit and watching Tod and Toby discussing the technical niceties of punching large holes in total strangers. Lovely.
seems to me the 90 degree edge alignment offset would be so it would slip through gaps in armor without too much thought. Grab and poke, this way it would align with gaps of the upper body more quickly.
I agree. Since many of the gaps in the neck/face area tend to be horizontal, being able to stab trough them with an ice pick style grip, without having to twist your hand quite as much or at all, seems like a great way to deliver more force and with less thought necessary since your blade is allready mostly aligned with the eye slit for example
Hi Tod, I am not as experienced and good knifemaker as you, but since watching this I've been thinking about how I would make a rondel with hidden peen and I think I have found a way it might have been done even with medieval technology (I haven't tested it in my workshop yet, I will if I get the time).
1) Braze the rondel before assembly just as you have done, but with the outer dish without a hole.
2) Cut the end of the tang to length so that when it is all assembled, there is no play left.
3) Cut the end of the tang lengthwise for a few mm - the length that it will be inserted into the rondel.
4) Make a small steel vedge so that when inserted into the cut of the tang it would spread the forked ends to a width ~ 1 mm more than the hole in the tang.
5) Put the vedge into the forked end of the tang, put the rondel over it, and hammer it down. The vedge spreads the fork so it locks tightly the whole assembly together just like a peened rivet would.
Yes, could do. But.... first, it's likely without bonding like brazing the wedge in place, it would eventually rattle loose. Second, it would be easier and more efficient to just hammer over, in opposite directions, the two parts of the fork. Sort of a "T" rivet head, rather than Tod's circumferential peening. And the issue still exists of the brazing on the other half of the rondel without burning the wood. :)
Always great to see Toby on the channel.
I like this museum guy.
To my way of thinking, the end rondel cap was fitted in two halves, so the tang was peened over, and then the top disk was fitted afterwards, thus concealing the joint. I'm probably wrong, though! AFTER typing that, I read the other comments, and they all seem to be saying the same thing!
seems there is always more to learn. thank you for sharing.
Loving this series!!!! Great work, gentlemen!
Loved this ! Thank you for making this wonderful episode !
About the angle of the handle, I watched a documentary about ww2 daggers and the thumb grove on the blade to make sure you used them sideways to slip between ribs. Just my thought maybe it was easier to do so for armor and that dagger.
Could the cutting edge orientation be set so that the back of the blade could parry? Also perhaps the tang rivet is on the inside of the lens and then was brazed together. Interesting video and beautiful work. Thank you.
I noticed that the orignal has the rondels are well out of square compared to your copy & you took some care to make it so.
My take is they put the bottom disc on and peened the handle on with that, then heated the edges up and the other disc and forged them together, giving you what looks like no peening because its hidden by the outer disc.
Thoughts on why the blade is 90 degrees to the grip:
It would be a more comfortable neutral grip when trying to stab through an eyeslot.
All about ergonomics and efficiency. If you have a knight in full armor on their back, the eye is a quick target to finish the job. But the slot runs horizontal to a conventional blade/tang grip direction. Thoughtful craftsmanship
Pretty cool..
brazing and welding too can be done on delicate objects like the wood grip in place. Just take a suitablewaterbowl where the to be brazed or welded sticks out, if you pre-braze the inner plate of the pommelside, peen it, and then braze on the top plate that is pre-brazed as well, will work fine.
The wood grip can be made like you did but then split along the woodgrain where the brass plates are, then the blind peening, brazing and finishing can be done, after that stick on the wood grip with some woodglue of preference, with the lovely brass plates riveted on and clamping the brass plates at the same time. The original shows a split in the woodgrain due to dried out wood. The last option would prefer due to faster and save method. Splitting wood that has to fit around a construction is found more often, it allways fits perfect, and bonds with the right glue as good as the original grain-bonding.
You can get away with that using a modern oxy torch that’ll get heat into a piece quickly (it’s a trick I sometimes use in jewellery making), but I’m not sure they’d have had any means of applying that much heat that quickly in a historical setting. Sounds like Tod needs to do a video exploring the possibilities!
@@Oldtanktapper brazing does not need that much heat, idealy not even red hot steel, too hot and you oxidize the flux, brass or copper rod and the steel, recipe for bad brazing. Like I said, the latest is the best way imho.
I don;t know how long the petroleum burners exist that are used since ages for heating brazing and soldering, have to check that out.
Bit of a late comment, but with the blade angle, I would think that it is orientated so to possibly easily slide between armor plates or up an aventail without needing twist the wrist to get the angle to do so. Another thing comes to mind, which is a bit grim, if you've ever seen a fair share of murder documentaries, you may have heard of murderers explaining that stabbing into the chest is far more difficult than expected, due to ribs running horizontal and a normal knife blade edge is held vertical. This rondel blade would make far it easier as the blade is horizontal.
I don't comprehend Dr Capwells conclusion that they couldn't be scales when there is a massive seam plain to see inside the dovetail. It's not straight, but it might be the scales were split down the natural grain instead of sawn and dressed. Just because that's how scales are always split in modern times, it's a dangerous assumption that's how a medieval maker would approach the task.
Two possibilities on the bottom discs. 1) The top piece was peened on then the bottom piece was braised. 2) The bottom guard has a tang and the blade has a tang and the decorative piece is holding both together tightly.
i would assume that the end of the tang was peened to the inner plate of the pommel, and the outer plate is just brazed on the inner plate and not connected to the tang. it would make the outermost plate purely decorative and prone to pop off when struck on its side hard enough in battle, but that would not compromise the usability of the dagger and would be an easy fix.
My guess is the rivet is internal to the outside rondlel and then the second dish is brazed on?
I wonder if the grip is 90° off what we would expect because it worked better with the particular gauntlets the original owner wore.
I believe they have leather on the palms and fingers gloves with padding then armour on the back of your hand . The hole catching the sword in your hand thing is Hollywood.
@@elbowomar2430 I know that. I was thinking about how with some gauntlets, plate mitten gauntlets in particular, your grip can get a little weird depending on how the plates over your thumb and back of hand are shaped. Years ago an old friend of mine was testing a pair of mitten gauntlets for an armorer he knew and found that while they worked great with his spear and ok with his poleaxe they were almost useless with his sword. Because of how the plates interacted and the shape of his sword grip he couldn't get a secure grip on it like he could with the round spear shaft and blockier. poleaxe.
Maybe they had no gauntlets or tiny tiny hands . Could be a archers knife increased protection compared to a cross guard or he had a basket hilted sword no room for gauntlets in them.
Would it be possible for the bottom rondel to be a solid piece, or the bottom of it be solid, so that you may forge a dovetail into it, which touches the top disc, allowing you to peen the tang blind? Given the dovetail on the brass inlays, clearly they understood multiple methods of construction, and I'm wondering if the way the inlays were attached maybe be a clue as to how the rondels were attached?
Could the florets be there to pin and sandwich the handle, where I know it's one piece, but to press the handle perpendicular to the grain? To prevent splitting?
Is it possible the Pommel may actually be forge welded onto the tang and the wood is just seemingly fused together from decomposition?
Having the blade aligned like that actually could makes sense if you for example want to stab through the openings of the helmet while beeing in a wressel with your opponent, since the slits of most helmets are horizontal. Now that I'm thinking about it aren't the majority of the vulnerable spots of an armor more on the horizontal side?
maybe the handle being 90 degrees out is to make it more ideal for stabbing into an visor from the front
okay so that was what the rivet was for...if the wood split along the grain then it would not fall off....as it has done.
or the rivet could be a later add-on because the wood had split.....and the splitting of the wood made the bronze bit fall out of its socket.
Angle of the blade in relation to handle - could that be if the blade was struck and it hit your forearm it wouldn't cut you?
If a knight has a chain mail glove on would it change the grip?
Probably Stupid Question:
We can see both your hands fit tightly between the discs, so I have a hard time imagining this being a knights' weapon for the battlefield. How would he have gripped the hilt while wearing some variant of a plate gauntlet?
So they did have sharpened blades? I thought they were for puncturing only.
An interesting disscusion,maybe you could ask if they would X-ray some of the collection?
Just an odd thought but could you form the head/handle like a large headed nail and fasten it into the handle by the florrets?
When manipulating weapons in through the gaps of plate armour the narrow geometry of the weapon is preffered. It shold then be easier to get an edged weapon in through the gaps if the flat side of the weapon is used rather than the wide side.
If the handle of a one handed weapon is rotated 90 deg. would you not by that fashioning have the thinner side presented to the armour of your combatant?
And by presenting the thin side the only cross section that has to be manipulated through the gaps of the other combatants armour would be the distal taper of the weapon and not the wider cross section of the egde side.
Thats my theory anyways.
Grab it as it fits in the hand and because it is rotated by 90 deg. it naturally slips through the gaps much easier.
What do you think?
Great thanks
I agree. With a normal handle you could just twist your hand and do that but, that would notably weaken the grip on the weapon. This just seems great to try and force your way through and eye slit for example
@@dariusgherle3215 Yeah, by my thinking it is to be functioning by design so the fighter does not need to think about weapon alignmen for eye slits or gaps between pauldrons and harness. So that when stabbing in an upwards motion the blade can glide up on the breastplate and naturally finds its way to the gap and have a easier way through the overlaying shoulder armour. So I think it might work better for the interest of the weilder either way it might be held.
Mabye?
Thanks for the input about the eyeslits I did not think of that when writing my first post.
Would be interested to see this theory put to the test when it is testing time with Matt Easton.
what about brazing on the two discs, then putting the handle in as 2 separate pieces? Then the dove tailed plates wrapping it into place, and then the pin securing it all? With just the 1 plate missing, we can't assume that the underlying wood is all one piece.
were there sword sized versions of Rondel Daggers?
Maybe a sideways blade has better alignment for poking through helmet eye slits.
The handle is oval the wrong way because you want to slip the blade between horizontal gaps and ribs. It’s not strange at all. It’s not a butter knife 😉
Peened, then soldered an overplate ?
Angle good for visor slit?
Could they have made the pommel by pinning the inside plate and then brazing the outside plate on?
it could be done with the peening of the bottom disc, if the wood handle was made in 2 halves. however if that was the case id expect the crack down the length of the handle to be straighter. DO THE X-RAY!
I would guess they peined the tang against the bottom half of the end rondel and then brazed the top piece on.
I move that we change the name from "Rondel Dagger" to "Murder-Stick"
Put some lead in the top rondell, screw it onto a threaded tang, then heat the top rondell enough to melt the lead. ?????
I would bet that the half of the pommel is riveted on the normal way and then the other half of it was brazed on, covering up the tang.
my guess would be that they riveted the bottom plate of the rondell to the tang and then braised on the other plate
About the lack of visible peening, could the tang not be peened on the inner dish of the upper rondel, and its outer counter part braised on afterwards? Such that the peening is inside the upper rondel and so not visible. No idea if that would be a strong construction, but it's the first thing that came to mind.
This was my idea too, that the disc at the end was braised on after assembly.
that's my thought as well. I would even say that this construction would be "stronger", if that is for that rondel any concern.
That was my thought as well, but it would definitely be structurally weaker, I also feel as if it would be more difficult to make.
That was my immediate thought as well (along with many others I'm sure). My concern wouldn't be the strength but whether the braising process would do damage to the wood and brasswork of the hilt. Perhaps wrapping it in damp cloth of some sort would protect it from the heat enough.
Nice idea, but it would not be possible to braze it once the wood was in place
Tod, "That's as usable today as it was 600 years ago"
Dr. Capwell, slowly tightening his grip, "Mhmm..."
"who did you stab, my pretty"
I love the thought of the maker being proud that everything's still tight and functional so many centuries later, but also the thought of him saying "Oh no, why is THAT one in your collection!? I've done SEVERAL better than that!"
"Yeah, I mean I even put the handle on 90° wrong and that's the one you put in a museum?"
And in a way, even though we don't know who the artisan was, they have gained some small measure of immortality through this piece being interesting and well preserved enough to stick in the minds of those who have seen it up to the point you have people like Tod making replicas of their work to this day.
Always a pleasure to see Toby and hear his analysis.
I do love people getting together from different directions and particularly when I am involved - such a privilege to be able to discuss things like this with him
Is the blade possibly angled for armour slits/eye slits and so is offset from the normal dagger for cutting?
This is quite an insight! Possibly!
I thought the exact same thing.
My thought was ribs are closer to horizontal than vertical, but I like your idea better.
I was wondering if the horizontal angle might have a parrying dynamic to it.
I know that sometimes in dagger defense, with a reverse or icepick grip, you lay the blade of the dagger across the forearm to better deflect or block blows coming in (from other daggers, sometimes with an opposed sword).
You see techniques like this in period treatises like Fiore, Meyer, etc.
With a horizontal angle, this would present the flat of the dagger blade across the arm instead of the edge (as opposed to the spine, or holding the wrist at an awkward angle to use the flat), making a party more comfortable and less likely to damage the edge.
It's a thought. Probably not (shrug)
Blade is angled for stabbing between the ribs, around the clavicle, and vertebrae. It’s easier to stab through these areas with a horizontally oriented blade, possibly; knife fighting literature teaches the horizontal orientation for this reason.
Peening the first disk and than braising the second one on is possible but you will burn the wood...
The other option Tod said sounds more likely to me. Two overlapping half tang's (one pre fixed to the blade and the other pre fixed to the pommel) than held together by the rivit, but that raises questions of mechanical strength...
See the pinned comment, but yes I agree, but if the tang was like a channel or a tube that could work. Damn hard way to make a knife though for what purpose except keep guys 600 years later guessing
Could it not be soldered on with lead instead of brazed? That would lower the temperature and maybe the wood would not burn. Although I still cannot imagine how to do that with medieval technology.
@@tods_workshop sometimes someone does something solely to prove that it can be done :)
5:33 its as usable today as it was 600 years ago. Toby gripping the dagger with malicious intent.
Leo Fender-founder of Fender Musical Instruments-is known for occasionally including something on one of his instruments that he thought musicians would want but-being an engineer rather than musician-he was wrong about. And sometimes these things stayed in production for a surprising amount of time since they didn’t interfere with the functionality enough or at all. I’m wondering if the grip orientation on this dagger might be something similar. The creator didn’t know that he was putting the grip on oddly, but his customers didn’t care that much since it is still functional if a bit odd.
That is actually pretty damned insightful.
Considering these were for using close up and personal in plate armour, would a "horizontal" blade relative to the hand have been more effective when forcing the point between plates of armour - sliding flat up one and under t'other?
I have an idea on how the end cap roundel was put on. But it would be impossible to tell without an x-ray. If we consider it most likely being French there is a fair chance the handle while it appears solid is not, and in fact the surviving brass strip is a cap that sandwiches the tang, and the brass inlay that was dovetailed in was to conceal this fact, and eventually fell off as unlike the other it was not secured with the through rivet. This would allow for the handle to be secured after the roundels were braised.
@tod’s workshop to clarify what I’m on about the wood is one piece still but it’s got a slot cut.
Well if that curator didn’t compliment Tod’s work, I certainly will. Tod, that’s a beautiful piece of craftsmanship and I believe any knight of the day would be happy to carry it into battle. Well done.
Thank you
Home sick this week, been bingeing some of your content. Thanks. Always entertaining.
Awesome! Thank you!
I see we all had the same idea for the pinning between the two rondels, but as you need to heat the rondels to braze them, for sure it could damage the wood handle.
Then I thought "look at this big cracking at the center of the handle just under the initial brass plate location. Could the handle have been made as two halves, finely glued together and maintened with the brass flower rivet?", but of course you could not put in place the brasse pieces in the dovetails by doing that.
It is pretty enigmatic!
I love collaborations like this - it is a history lesson, a documentary and a great ad for a museum.
Yup.. added to my list of places to go to, when I'm in London next year.
Can recommend. It's totally free to enter by the way, as is generally the case with London's museums.
Wonderful to see the original A726. Is it just me or did the questions of construction, type of wood, etc. seem to resonate withToby's own curiosity? I'd love to see that work done.
As a knife maker I would love to get a higher level of detail. Things like stock thickness and details about blade geometry. I would love to know more about construction.
I assume that the pommel was brazed on. I believe they had the ability to do that with bronze or other non ferris.
The only reason I can think of that is non decorative for the brass decoration mid handle would be to pin it. I could see that if you do the peen so that it can't be tightened then there could be a need to make sure the handle stayed firm if the wood contracted and a single pin would fix it firmly in place. I don't know how the handles were normally constructed but if the super guard was compressed somewhat it would be able to ride with the expansion and contraction. Perhaps this was the reason for the meathod given that there would be a fair bit of movement.
Considering that the wooden grip is made out of a solid piece, I don't think it would be possible to braze the rondel with the grip on, it would completely burn both on the outer and the inner side facing the tang
The Caucasian Qama dagger is primarily used for thrusting sideways (blade parallel to the ground). This way it can better penetrate the torso without getting caught up between the ribs. That dagger doesn't have 90º handle, but they optimized the grip by having tall rivet at the pommel for the thumb to press against. Provided how thick the blade is on this rondel, it can be operated sideways without any issues.
Given that this rondal dagger was likely for armoured opponents it is more probably rotated to align with gaps between plates, maille or eye slits. In my uneducated opinion.
Based instead on this Tod, Matt and Lindy shouting "CONTEXT" inside my noggin.
Just want to say it was a delight to visit the Wallace Collection for the first time this weekend and I was blown away by the beautiful arms and armour, the level of workmanship on some of the pieces is truly astonishing. I think My 4 yr old son loved it even more! There is also a very striking recreation of King Richard the thirds armour near the entrance for which Toby Capwell acted as consultant.
I got my Tod's Workshop rondel dagger today, about an hour after the video published. Love it. Tod, maybe Matt Easton might have a reason the grip is "off"?
My copy of this piece turned up recently- lovely craftsmanship and fun to own!
From a bit of handling and my limited HEMA experience with dagger fighting, my theory on the rotated blade would be its to allow you to grip the spine easier.
Drawing the dagger in an ice pick grip, right handed, leaves you with the edge pointing "outwards" and the thick spin inwards. This is very easy and comfortable to then rest, steady or grip with your left hand, useful for techniques where the blade is being used to block, and to guide or push a stab through.
This would be much less convenient if the blade were aligned with the edge facing "downwards" in an ice pick grip, meaning the spine is facing upwards.
Riveted to the inner dish with the outer dish braised after?
Seems like the only logical way, but you would put your hand on the outer rondel to push the dagger deeper into your target, i wonder if that could damage the outer dish since all the force would go into the braised edge
Tod is an actual Cutler! Excellent work.
Yes, hence the name of one of his companies, Tod Cutler!
My question is were all rondel daggers handles put on as you say 90 degrees to the blade or just this one
This is the only one I have seen, though there is a really odd one in the Museum of London, that sort of does
These comparisons of your copies with the originals geek me out with noticing construction details that make us wonder "how did they *do* that?"
Thinking of the rear rondel without the visible rivet. It seems to me that rather then attaching the two sides of the rondel and then riveting it to the dagger, they would have riveted the plate closer to the hand to the dagger and then used clamps to hold the back plate in position while they permanently attached the two plates together which would leave the River hidden I. The middle of the rondel
Assembly suggestion: The pommel end could possibly be brazed/soldered on by heating the end cup first. With it's opposite part already peened to the tang and tinned, that assembly could be lowered onto the end cup with minimal heating to the woodwork. The join would not be as strong that way, but as it would not be load-bearing it should suffice.
I suspect the cross pin and decorative rivet would be to prevent rotation of the wooden handle around the tang.
Keep 'em coming! - Vik
I would like to see that technique, as only way to heat metal was with the heat of forge. No fancy and precise torches. And for brazing to work, both touching metal must be at brazing temperatures. Those are far above burning point for wood. This technique would work, though, if only soft soldering was used, as far lower temperatures are used.
Toby has got the best job in the land.
Medieval Cinematic Universe crossovers are always a welcome sight on my subscription feed.
I find that a very odd choice in construction, if in fact they peened on the inner disc and then braised on the outer/bottom one that would be inherently weaker in construction and more labor intensive, and more fiddly work. There's gonna be some kind of bolster in there to give it added strength.
Always a pleasure to see Dr. Capwell.
maybe the 90-degree angle to the blade is for getting in the gaps of the armor easier. The flat can more easily get in the overlapping plates or some such
I'm assuming the rivet on the rear rondel is inside the rondel, and the braze it after the rivet is created internally -- that would make the bottom rondel's bond much weaker, however, so I'm not sure what constructional benefit that would give.
And, as for the sideways grip, perhaps there is some advantage to the sideways blade at slipping between the gaps in armor. Particularly, I'm thinking of the horizontal eye-slits of period helmets, and the gap at the hips and waist of a breastplate where even a slender/vertical blade might snag and not penetrate.
The constructional benefit would be not loading the outside disc of the rondel. If you peen the lower disc, there's no gap that could collapse. But if you peen on the outside of the pommel rondel, should the occasion arise that the created cavity collapses, either the braze weld gives way on the disks, or the disks themselves deform, the grip would instantly become loose.
Yes you could braze it on when finished. And the wood could be two pieces. When we cut wood today the saw removes some wood making seams obvious, BUT in medieval times they would split the wood allowing for a seamless look. In this case it is a two pice handle and you can see the seam under the missing brass plate and the construction of peening only the inner disk with washer is stronger than going through both due to the ability for the disk to collapse. It’s just common sense for the handy.
Tod didn’t follow the proper build procedures using split handle.
Looking forward to see how Matt Easton thinks the rondel might have been used.
Just wait - very interesting
Crowd-fund x-raying it.
On the medieval one they peened the first piece onto the tang then brazed the second piece over that and cleaned it up. I've used a variation of that assembly on cooking knives I've made. I prefer to forge weld than braze but when you are joining large regions, it's very strong.
Excellent work, Tod, and Thank You to Dr. Capwell, you are a treasure and so very generous with your expertise of the collection.
Regarding the 90° rotation of the blade, could it have to do with how to best get into armour gaps, and in particular into a visor (just as some rapier systems prefer to lay the edges horizontal rather than vertical because it penetrates better between ribs)?
It would be interesting to see if it was perhaps formed initially from forging. As if its a nail construction then domed, though that may have been far too complex especially back that.
I'm not sure a metal gauntlet can really enter between the two discs. It seems too tight. Or has it been tried with a tod cutler version? Maybe it is not designed for an armoured knight but for a lighter soldier to face an armoured opponent.
It does depend on the type, but wait and have a look at Matt, when he brings his - all very interesting
@@tods_workshop Nice, that will be very interesting. The potential ways to use this beautifull dagger.
You can make the peening undistinguishable, but its a very laborious process. First of all - both parts should be made from exactly the same piece of metal, then hole should be fitted ideally to the shape of the tang, and then, after the peening and grinding and polishing you can't see the transition even on the aged, oxidized or rusted part. Some hardcore knifemakers fits the hidden rivets in bolsters on their hi-end knives this way.
For whatever reason, my thought is the pommel rondel was left in half, tang pinned in place to the 'inner cup' and then the 'outer cup' was added to it afterward.
I assume they peened the tang on one half of the bottom rondel, then brazed the other half on, but i don't know about brazing so maybe it's not feasible that way.
Todd: "That's as usable today as it was 600 years ago."
Curator: *Grips handle firmly.* "Mhm..."
I can confirm from riveting aircraft that you absolutely will see the rivets against the metal, if a rivet was there.
For example, a bare metal P-51 Mustang. You can see every single rivet on that wing, but they are all countersunk and shaved flush, and then the whole wing polished with Fuller's Earth. You can run your hands across the wing and not feel a single rivet, but you can see them from 50 feet away.
Regarding the pommel/base plate not having evidence of attachment, is it possible that the blade and base plate are one piece? with the hilt and guard fixed on later/accessory?
My theory is, that because you both described it to be more comfortable with the reverse grip, that maybe there was more focus on building it from the base-plate downwards towards the blade, therefore the handle/grip and guard being accessories rather than being central to the operation of the dagger, as it's not a typical double-edged parrying or sidearm blade.
Given how the dagger was supposedly hammer-fisted between metal and flesh, I would assume it's structural strength would need to "flow" from the plate through to the end of the blade, which is why you don't see any form of attachment at the now upward-facing base-plate. Plus maybe bare-hammering it with your hand would incur some tearing on your skin if there was any metallic protrusion or cut-away.
How they attached the hilt/handle and guard is beyond me as I'm not a blacksmith, I'm assuming there could be some process where heating the guard to expand to fit, would allow it to coll and squeeze on indefinitely. I'm not sure if that would support hammering into someones arm pit or whatever, but maybe the brunt of the force is borne by the base plate.
Tod: that's as usable today as hundreds of years ago.
Toby (menacingly grips the knife): mmmhuh.
Im thinking the offset of the blade to handle is for a few reasons: 1 When leaning over someone you have more side to side stability than forward and backwards, so getting the blade to 'bite'/puncture in a fashion that helps with forward and backwards stability makes sense; 2 I imagine that a sideways blade is more likely to slip to the side rather that forward or backwards, so less likely to throw off your balance in a dramatic fashion, and probably reduces the chance of stabbing yourself, 3 extending from the slipping concept, it seems likely that they would have the sharpened edge facing away from the 'steering' arm, allowing the 'driving' arms force to be delivered more down the spine of the blade not the edge of the blade, I'm thinking this would increase the chance of the blade puncturing the armour and not glancing off.
Greetings, and congratulations on your construction, and gratitude for the tutorial. So curious to hear an American accent in the English setting. With regard to the original Rondal dagger, purely speculation on my part; perhaps they peened the bottom dish to the tang, assuming the blade is pointed down, then the braised the top dish to the bottom dish, thereby concealing the peen? It would be a fairly close tolerance, but it looks like that might work. I am far from an expert, and I am just offering this as a suggestion. I really enjoy your series of medieval weapon demonstrations.
Is it possible the dovetails are for indexing? Given you both say that this was probably something used by a knight in full armor, could you feel those dovetails......?
I don't know if this is feasible, either today or back then, but what came to my head when I saw the pommel disk is, what if they first pinned the bottom half of the disk, and THEN brazed the upper part? Sounds awfully more complicated, but as I see it, even if the pommel disk flattens a bit with use, it would remain thight.