ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- Words Can't Describe how it feels!
Jared Sund from Stable Camper gives us a detailed tour of his Liquid Spring equipped RAM 5500 Truck. Jared hauls his huge Truck Camper and tows a large trailer as well as driving unloaded. These medium-duty, dually trucks ride very rough while empty. Jared was looking for a better suspension system that could handle the weight and give a smooth ride at the same time. What he found what might be the best option on the market! What do you think?
I (Scott) am blown away by the comfort and quality. Jared drove me around for a while off-camera and it's such a smooth ride. You can really feel the strength and stoutness of the truck, but the suspension really smooths out all of the hardness that is typical with a 5500 or F550 series truck. Jared nor I have something to sell, it's just a huge, huge, huge upgrade! If you're in the market, take a test drive, you have to feel it to believe it!
More information can be found here:
www.liquidspring.com
www.stablecamper.com
Index:
Intro: 0:00
The Truck: 0:54
Overview: 1:34
Inside: 6:29
Outside: 7:57
Driving: 11:57
Outro: 15:45
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We are a travel couple and explore full-time in our NuCamp Cirrus 920 Truck Camper. The camper rides in our 2018 Ram 3500 Dually Diesel CrewCab truck. We love our camper and we are excited to share our life with all of you!
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Wow, now that's cool! Jared's product knowledge was also impressive. Can't wait for your camper-loaded follow up video. Great job Scott.
Thanks for watching. It’s very likely that we will meet up in Quartzsite and we can go over all the questions in the comments and see how it handles his travels while hauling his camper and trailer.
Would love to see - hear about review now that you have ran a few miles... hopefully with the camper :) Thank you to you both 1 for recording and the other willing to talk about the system
Now that is very cool! It adds a new level of comfort and functionality to our favorite RV. That would be perfect on a RAM 5500/Overland Explorer flat bed rig I’m considering. Thanks Scott!
It really is a game changer. Something you have to feel to get a sense of. While I’m not in the market, if I was building a new 5500 rig, I would heavily consider that system!
Glad to see you guys used Old Dominion Freight! Thank you!
👍
Thanks for mentioning Ram's VSIM (Vehicle System Interface Module) system - I had never heard of it, but it would be very valuable to upfitters. I would have guessed that vehicle data was coming from the OBD (OnBoard Diagnostics) port.
Great presentation thank you
Thank you for watching!
This is so interesting. I’ll probably get this system for my next truck 👍
Thank you guys 🙌
It’s pretty amazing! I’m dreaming of an upgrade ☺️
At $25k
And ive heard other people say it can be more if you find a shop unfamiliar...with installation!
I believe the liquid spring factory is around $21k
East Coast Ohio Area
"Liquid Spring if you are listening,
Richmond Virginia with Love"
Sincerely B
@@limbandtreeremoval
Thanks 👍
Super jealous, independent suspension, adjustable ride height and self-leveling, oh I know what's going on my wish list now. Super super cool, thank you for the video. I appreciate that he isn't sponsored, but yet was so impressed, he just had to share his experiences with their product. Very impressive.👍👍
PS: Absolutely, we need an update video on this guys set up, looking forward to seeing it.
Jared is a pretty excited about all these cool toys, including all the stuff he manufactures! We do plan to see him at the TCA Rally in Quartzsite, so hopefully we will have time to do a little tour and talk more about how it handles the weight of the full setup!
That's not what "independent suspension" means... but separate control of front and rear (which all four-wheel air spring systems have, too) is good.
Great idea. Peugot cars from France have used hydraulic suspensions for decades and they ride beautifully it is said. Glad some company here is offering it. I'll look into them for my rv and trucks. Thanks.
You’re the second comment referring to Peugeot, I’ll have to look into their suspension systems. Jared’s truck ride like nothing crazy be ever been in!
Not quite. Those are hydropneumatic systems, with hydraulic fluid transmitting pressure to highly compressed gas (nitrogen) in closed chambers; the gas is the spring. This system doesn't have the gas, and the hydraulic fluid itself compresses to provide the spring action.
And it's Citroën, rather than Peugeot, which is well-known for hydropneumatic suspensions. Currently similar systems can be found in other brands, including Lexus SUVs.
All terrain cranes use this type of suspension.
Waiting for them to release this for my 3500. I just wish they could incorporate the spring adjustment using the 12” screen. I hate aftermarket crap attached to the dash.
Ty for the video
Thanks for watching!
Very similar to the system in my old Mercedes. Hopefully it proves to be more reliable. They are great when they work but a total pain when they dont
That's nice 😉👍
It is!!
Ram needs this from the factory for the HD series, they have a similar system like this on the 1500s that is great.
@13:19 CLASS doesn't change pressure (by pumping fluid into the strut and attached volume or letting it out) to respond to cornering loads - it temporarily closes the connection between parts of the attached volume during cornering events. When less volume is attached to the strut the springing is stiffer.
Jared never amazes me with his knowledge and beard growing ability
I agree. Everytime I see him, I learn a lot!
@@Stonyboot yup, spent many late hours trying to sponge up his knowledge. He has taught me many valuable lessons over the years. I am happy to see him finally chasing his dream and doing what he loves.
Awesome! Yeah, he’s a great example of how you can really follow your passions and make it all work!
"never amazes me"? I assume that was supposed to be "always amazes me" or "never fails to amaze me".
@@brianb-p6586 i stand by my previous statement
While I generally hate "interview" videos about vehicles that spend their time looking at a person driving or standing beside a stationary vehicle, instead of looking at the actual subject of the video, in this case the mechanical detail shots and other information were cut in nicely. It's much better than the shaky phone-in-hand walkaround tours that are so common.
Great information 👍 👌
We’re glad it was helpful!
Really informative video. Realize I'm a bit late to the party but Sparks Motors (heavy D from Diesel bros) was putting this on a truck and said "compressible liquid spring" and I was confused about how it works because liquids are far less compressible than any kind of gas so I just didn't know how it worked. I guess it's like a combination of a dynamic shock absorber and active hydraulic leveling system. The only thing not covered here was the cost which I'm sure is considerable. I wonder if this would ever become standard equipment for some platforms. Thanks again.
Thanks for watching, its a super cool setup and the strange compressible liquid had me scratching my head. I guess it's some kind of silicone...
@@StonybootI'd love to know how much of the system relies on compression vs dynamic hydraulic systems. The most compressible fluids I could find are somewhere in the range of 50-115 parts per million per atmosphere. So you'd want to use smaller shafts which it sounds like they are and then larger fluid volumes but even then it seems highly unlikely unless I'm wrong but here is what I am seeing: Say you had 100 cubic inches of fluid being pushed on by a 1x1x4 inch shaft and 100ppm of compressibillity (very high for a fluid). To get 4 inches of travel you'd need 40,000 atmospheres (550k+psi) of pressure. You wouldn't be able to get pressure that high and if you came close you'd explode every line and vessel that held it I would think. So thats my napkin math why I think it's about valving and dynamic hydraulics way more than compressible fluid. Unless the "fluid" is some chemical mix thats got some sort of weird properties like a lot of trapped air bubbles or something? *shrug. I'll see if I can find more info at some point. *edit to add: I'm imagining you could mix tiny beads of Styrofoam in hydraulic fluid to create a compressible liquid effect, really it would be the air inside the Styrofoam being compressed but you could carefully calibrate the compressibillity that way.
Could do video on how reliable the system is?
What a kick ass review....wish it was more affordable ie cost vs year of vehicle. The dual action accumulator requires maintenance at what intervals? If I am in and out of ditches/mines what protection is there in case of rapid suspension compression?
I have a couple lowriders with accumulators but some of those potholes or expansion joints have ruptured bladders
I wonder how good this would be in cold climates. If you wluld have to change fluids to keep the same response time
It would have been a good idea to try the camper on the truck before doing this, especially since it would have only taken the Stablecamper people a few minutes to do it, but I suppose you take your opportunities when you get them.
Jared, it's nice to see your also removed the "Certified Clean Idle" sticker on the driver's side. They look like crap. First thing I removed on my 5500.
My body guy did that, he said…”that has to go,”. 😀
Haha, good catch!
Love it but bet you wish you had thought out the camper tie downs as with them on you have no access to the top bed boxes.
Now you need to get Balance Masters automatic lifetime wheel balancers. I've got them on my 5500 & they are amazing. There is another popular auto wheel balancer on the market, but they are a copycat of the original. the copycat uses a noisy sand like media suspended in a mineral oil type solution... they're ok at cruising speed, but sounds like an air leak or sand sliding thru a metal tube so parking lots or low speed moving makes the truck sound like something is scraping.... the Balance Masters are the original & uses liquid mercury inside so it will not freeze in sub zero temps... it's also 100% silent. it's simply a disc that mounts on the wheel studs, behind the wheel... it's a one time purchase & you never need to balance tires ever again. they not only smooth tires, they also actively compensate as the road effects suspension movement & increases tire life. if you sell your truck, you just take off the tires, pull the discs & put em on your next truck. it's truly a one time purchase... and they're not that expensive. just google Balance Masters... you'll wish you knew about them years ago...
I called liquid spring and the will not install this on my 2022 F450, they said it is a different chassis. they install them on motorhomes, ambulance and fire trucks. Apparently its a different Frame that is used. They did say they are looking into that market down the road but about a year or two out.
Very cool, Jared. Thanks for sharing... One aspect of airbags that I like having an onboard air compressor to air down and up tires. Do you carry a dedicated air compressor now or do you just go without and not air down?
I’ve been carrying a viair compressor for years, which is a great little compressor. I’ve been thinking about mounting it under the truck, however there’s also benefits to having it portable…
This is a topic I want to address for my own needs. What kind of compressor do you have? I see that Jared has a Viair.
This truck has 19.5 tires. The beads unseat much easier on these wheels and the tire sidewall is very stiff so it is not a great idea to air down
How does it compare to a full air ride suspension?
That is one heck of a suspension system. Ya' got me sold. I will have to see how much it will set me back but I am after an ultimate truck camper rig with a Ram 5500 or Ford F-550 with a Host Cascade 10.5. I got 7 years to save up for it. I should make it. We'll have to see how much this Liquid Spring is. I am thinking 4 grand. Wondering though how it would be on a washboard road or does it have a mode for that?. Great video!
We haven’t had the truck and camper on any washboard roads since installing the LS system. We are on the road right now on a Oregon to Florida and back trip. Made it all the way down, and back to Arizona and the system has done really well. Lots of construction and bad roads along this journey, as you might imagine.
I’m wondering the same thing. Maybe Jared will have some insights to share when we meet in Quartzsite.
I’m sure the roads near Quartzsite will slow you to answer the washboard question 😂
Think several times that "4 grand" cost guess.
@@brianb-p6586 yeah, i was way off. I went online and 12k to 14k is steep. Jared wrote his off on the company I am sure. I will still entertain the idea. It looks like a super product, i wonder about the maintenance and issues it may have. Would be interested in a followup from him in a year or so on the durability. Thanks for sharing! Safe travels.
1 yr later, any major issues?
That is absolutely amazing. Do you feel like the detuned engine hurt you on the grades?
That would be a great question for Jared at www.stablecamper.com
But from my discussions with him, he said not at all.
Whats happens when you blow a seal on it? Whats the warranty?
Very nice video. It is hard to tell from the video...but it looks like the ground clearance takes a hit. Would I still be able to take my camper to the off road places I like to go? Thanks
Absolutely, you can even raise it 4 inches at the touch of a button. Slap some super singles on there and you’re in business.
Scott superb editing and video. Did you do the entire video? I wish I still had my camper and truck. I had a 2014 F 350 Platinum it road like a Lincoln continental it I still had it I would add this system. What does that do to the alignment?
The front end geometry was unchanged, just replaced the springs and shocks with the hydraulic cylinder. The rear hardware used existing holes in the frame for the leaf hangers, so I didn’t notice any change from the rear end either. Maybe I should have it aligned, but I don’t feel any steering issues or see any strange tire issue after the install.
Thank you Terry. It looks like Jared already answered your question.
Are you guys doing installs on these? What are you charging to do an install? Can you install on F450 with pick up bed? Thanks in advance
Where was the LiquidSpring system installed? It seems like there is more ground clearance with this system over the Kelderman.
Jared did the install himself. You can contact him for details through Facebook or their website StableCamper.com
What did this system cost?
Does 'Liquid Springs' offer a system for Ford's F-450 model?
I’m not sure. It’s always changing but they do have a guide on their website showing what they have for options.
Will your system and all your upgrades work with a Host Mammoth?
There’s no reason I can think of that it wouldn’t work. Eagle Cap and Host Mammoth are pretty similar.
Looks very cool but will the liquid gel up in cold weather?
Nope. Last I read, they have tested it to -40 or -60 f. It’s some fancy compressible silicone fluid.
@@Stonyboot Thanks for that reply
Seems like a very next level system but as a Hydraulic how well does it work in the Cold?
I quickly looked through their website to see if I could find their temperature specs, and couldn’t quickly find it. I know I’d seen it before, and -40F comes to mind, however that should verified. I know unlike air systems, the Liquid Spring system doesn’t build condensation a freeze like an air system. The coldest I’ve used it in is 17F, and no problems.
Great question. I’d like to know more about that fancy compressible liquid. Seems like an oxymoron!
@@Stonyboot I don't know what brand or specific fluid LiquidSpring uses, but it's silicone oil (the only commercially available fluid that is sufficiently compressible). Temperature specs are published by fluid manufacturers such as Dow and Shin-Etsu; low temperature is not a problem.
All liquids are slightly compressible. Silicone oils are much more compressible than most liquids, but the operating pressure of this system (which is roughly typical of common hydraulic systems) is still only enough to compress the volume of fluid by a few percent. That small change in volume is why the secondary volumes (the big pressurized tanks connected to the struts) are so big - it takes a large volume of fluid for the small percentage change to stroke the strut cylinder a useful amount.
Have been told that 19.5 tires tend to over heat at 60+ mph. Have you found this to be true?
I’d suggest talking directly with Jared. While I (Scott) did record and produce the video, it’s Jared Sund that has all the answers about his rig. You can contact him through the StableCamper.com website.
I have to ask, what brand are the mud flaps?
I’m not sure. You can contact Jared on his StableCamper.com website
just out of curiosity is this like a modern version of the old Citroen hydraulic car suspension, brought into the 21st century?
I wasn’t familiar with this system, so I did a brief review of it. After reading about the Citroen system, I’d say that the goals of the two systems are very similar. However, the LS system is a much simpler setup. The Citroen is a oil (non-compressible) over gas (compressible) system (hydropneumatic), to develop the ride characteristics and suspension features of the vehicle. The LS system is all hydraulic, using a compressible oil with a changing volume to dynamically change the compressible space on the fly. Taking multiple inputs from the vehicle, they are able to dynamically change the compressible space for each wheel thereby controlling the axle movement as the road and vehicle conditions change. The LS system is pretty simple in theory, and in application takes their years of research to apply their secret sauce to make the application of their system so great.
Thank you for the comment and bring to light the Citroen suspension system. Quite and interesting read on it!
@@stablecamper6146 thank you for the time you took to explain the difference to me
Jared already responded, but now you’ve piqued my interest on the Citroen system! Off to google!
@@Stonyboot Check out Toyota's Active Height Control system as well, which is a modern version in current production.
No problems below 0 weather in winter?
This is from ChatGPT:
As of my knowledge cutoff in September 2021, the LiquidSpring suspension system is designed to operate within a temperature range of -40°F to 176°F (-40°C to 80°C). However, please note that specifications and capabilities of specific products or technologies may have changed since then. I recommend consulting the manufacturer or the official documentation of the LiquidSpring suspension system for the most up-to-date information on its operational temperature range.
@@Stonyboot thanks for the reply and video 👍🏻
Neat system, but all of the auxiliary outboard equipment would concern me of failure down the road.
I had the same concerns when I first looked at it. I know they have been outfitting Ambulances for nearly a decade, and figured they wouldn’t last long if they brought down the reliability of service vehicles like those.
@@stablecamper6146 Well, that is definitely field testing in "extreme duty" situations, and you are correct, if they were failure prone, they wouldn't be on Emergency Service Vehicles. BTW, your RAM 5500 is awesome, and I have used your product for several years and love my "Stable Camper" set.
Doing research for the video showed me that they have a pretty long history in the emergency vehicle sector. Also, hydraulic systems tend to be very reliable, but I have the same worries because I would have no idea how to fix it myself. What I found in my research were a lot of happy customers. Not many negatives.
@@stablecamper6146 Another LiquidSpring video has comments about the ambulance installations, both positive (from the point of view of drivers) and negative (referring to maintenance problems). Ambulances spend most of their time stationary, so they might not be the best source of reliability history for potential use in other applications.
That is great but what is the cost? I'm thinking around $4500 to $5000.
More in the range of $15-23k
@@Stonyboot Not worth the money unless you are rich. You can just install air bags and still get a good ride.
@13:50 I think it's hilarious that a guy driving a Ram 5500 and talking to a Ram 3500 owner uses lighter Ford models (F-150 and F-250) to describe the improved ride, rather than lighter Ram models (1500 and 2500).
😄
I can appreciate the engineering but the only thing I can picture is stranded in the middle of nowhere with gallons of hydraulic fluid on the ground. I think there should still be a passive structural part in place, in case of failure.
What’s the total cost for this set up?
20k give or take. 10-16k for parts plus install. Jared did his own install, but it’s not an easy project.
I would like to know how the system preforms off road. I would like to know how it articulates while having a load and the suspension needing to flex at a high rate.
If the concern is the rate of flow of fluid through the hoses, it's a valid question but shouldn't be a problem - hydraulic suspensions requiring flow like this - but not from Liquid Spring - have been used in off-road competition.
@@brianb-p6586 flow is part of it, but also the pressure it will maintain. Springs react by the forces put upon them. Hydraulic system are completely different. Let’s say you get one wheel that’s up on a rock or incline and the rest are on flat ground. How quickly does the system react and how much pressure is released from that one wheel? I understand there can be other systems that may have been used in competition, not that I’ve seen or heard of them, but this system is not those systems you’re talking about and they have completely different uses.
Also, I’m thinking it’s not up to par, this is why they are only offering the system for certain model trucks. The models they are offering are for commercial use, which means the vehicles probably will not be used off highways.
@@mikemiller9119 The liquid as a spring responds to the force on it, too. Speed of response is not an issue - the rate of propagation of pressure changes in a fluid is the speed of sound, and in a liquid that's very high. The control system, and most importantly the pump, doesn't need to react at the frequency of suspension movements.
The LiquidSpring system is not fully active; it adjusts ride height, and actively controls both damping and whether or not full fluid volume is attached, but it doesn't pump fluid in and out of the struts to responds to suspension movements. If a wheel goes up on a curb that suspension corner will move up, fluid will compress, and force on the tire will increase... just like any passive suspension.
The Kinetic hydraulic suspension systems used in World Rally Championship and Dakar events are a bit different, but not in the ability to accommodate displacement or pressure changes. The big difference is simply whether the end of the hydraulic path has a gas chamber (Kinetic) or just a liquid volume (LiquidSpring).
The system appears to be offered primarily for truck models that are stiff and perform poorly in stock form (so medium-duty trucks rather than cars and light-duty trucks), for which air suspension is not offered from the factory (so medium-duty rather than heavy-duty), and for which ride might be more important than a typical truck (ambulances, RVs, owner-operated vocational applications). It's for trucks on traditional straight-rail frames rather than the few light trucks still using leaf springs (with their more complex structures and tighter packaging) because the design and fabrication of the control arms and brackets is easier, and because they're relatively consistent in design. None of this market targeting is related to limited performance of the suspension.
@@brianb-p6586 Wow, thank you for speaking on behalf of the company. How long have you been with them?
@@mikemiller9119 I'm not with the company - I'm just interested in suspension design.
How much was it to purchase?
It varies, you’ll need to contact Liquid Spring.
Would you recommend this for hotshot setup?
Based on the ride, yes, especially if you have to drive unloaded at times. Fully loaded, the ride quality is about the same. But unloaded, it rides like a dream.
@@Stonyboot thanks for the quick response back. New subscriber here
Thanks for watching. To be honest, I’m way behind in comments, I just saw yours come in and responded.
The owner of the truck is the guy that runs StableCamper.com. He’s happy to chat about it.
I’ve talked to him a lot about the setup as well as other people that have LiquidSpring. It’s a dramatic change from stock springs unloaded, especially in a class 4 or 5 truck. Feels like a sport tuned suspension instead of a spine breaking block of concrete. It’s 12-20k. But if you run a lot of miles and plan to keep the truck for 300k miles, it’s probably money well spent.
Price?
12-15k in parts, roughly 4-7k for installation.
How do you get it serviced?
You can check their website or contact Liquid Spring directly for detailed information on servicing. They do have dealers/installers across the country, so getting service shouldn’t be an issue. The installation manual does have a list of service intervals, however it is all just inspection and rechecking torqued bolts.
I see that StableCamper answered your question. The LiquidSpring website has a ton of information. I’m sure you can find what you need there.
How will that work in canada when it's -40s
I don't see an issue with low temperature. This system uses a silicone fluid that has no issue with -40 C.
@@brianb-p6586 I have a 2022 ford f450 is that going to fit my truck
@@christianmercado5347 @Christian Mercado that depends... which F-450? The F-450 pickup is probably not the same as an F-450 chassis-cab; I don't know about the current version, but in the past the F-450 pickup was an F-350 with different wheels and tires and springs, while the F-450 chassis-cab had a frame which was different from the pickups, and the same as the F-550. LiquidSpring specializes in medium-duty and heavier chassis, and has front and rear kits which fit the F-450 and F-550 chassis-cabs, but apparently does not have a kit specifically for the pickup; you could check with LiquidSpring.
@@brianb-p6586 mine is a f450 pick up
@@christianmercado5347 So your frame is probably not the straight-rail frame that the LiquidSpring kit fits.
The RV leveling system he mentioned is not found on the Liquid Spring website at all. So I contacted them and no response yet. I'm not saying he lied. What I'm trying to say is the company's poor customer service.
Given that they sell the system for RVs, and a stationary RV leveled on the suspension and with the valves closed to stiffen the springing would be very stable, it seems obvious to complete this feature and offer it. It's disappointing that they haven't done that.
I tried submitting a question to LiquidSpring using their website's form (in both Chrome and Edge browsers), and it does not work; it endlessly shows that the page is processing. Depending on how you tried to contact them, they may not have received anything.
@@brianb-p6586 I emailed them directly, not through their messaging system. Each suspension system is connected to a separate liquid tank. I still don't understand why the main control system can't handle each suspension individually even when parked.
I don’t have any insider info on this, just that it’s not available yet. They do have solid plans to get it out, but that’s all I know. I’m sure Jared will let me know when he has something.
@@SaintNomad I agree - this is just a matter of adding a level sensor (if they don't have one already), some sort of interface (an added button or two if the hardware panel is all they have), and programming the controller.
Great!! A $14k system to give a better ride to a $70k truck!!
More like $20k and $100k. At least currently.
@@Stonyboot I just bought a 2020 International CV with only 20k miles for $70k. I found NEW 2022s for $65k but then add a $10k bed. Nowhere even close to $100k.
I think not good idea,what if a hydraulic hose blows then your screwed !!
It’s a valid point. I don’t have a good answer, except hydraulic lines are pretty reliable. But when they go, they go.
@@Stonyboot they’re very reliable. it’s just that after a period of time, I’d replace them so that I’m not screwed, lol.
Dozers, Graders, Excavators etc. using these hoses in heavy duty way.
I have the same truck, what I don’t have or feel like to spend is $15,600 that this type of suspension cost, nice product but no thanks.
$200k-$250k? Rich People Problems
It does't really seem to be a problem.
His set up. Is 26,000$ dollars.. your have money to blow.. we got only have balls..
Good engineering but for $13k~I'll pass
Out of my price range too, but it’s pretty amazing. I was really amazed with the ride quality. Cool toys for big boys.