As the “little kid” who made the debunk video in the first place, I didn’t expect to have nearly as much support or props on my side as I thought 🤔 I do admit (even under Tys pinned comment on my video) I got stuff wrong, only really on Sonic, but I don’t see Ty doing something similar. Not really helped by the fact that he’s coming out with a vid about how every Mario is mostly the same as said by him on his responses pinned comment, meaning his whole comp Mario argument is gonna be contradicted. Oh, and to those who apparently think I’m biased against Sonic, I literally said in the end of my video that I DID like and respect Sonic, thought he was powerful, and think that both characters can still win, but I guess the fans were too busy writing their hate comments to continue watching 😂 But really, the whole main Idea of the debunk and a good majority of my Mario videos were to defend him from downplay. I even have a more recent one that shows paper and normal Mario are the same regardless of Paper Jam. And you can’t tell me Ty isn’t completely against the simple IDEA of Mario being powerful when he said he’s “not even planet level”.
Fair points. I think characters are getting downplayed to an extent on both sides. Also it’s all jokes over here! Loving the debate and both you and Ty are doing great with the content!🔥🙌
@@SuperNardful 1 Mario is not human 2 the speed is not a matter in his universe therefore doesn't affect his body 3 the turtle conquer galaxies also fought gods 4 this is not platforming so take Out the limits of Game mechanics nintendo puts to Mario only to keep the gameplay intresting 5 Sonic has an official timeline, Mario doesn't, Mario has quite the toonforce
@@JosiahTheStickGuy Tbh both sides are good but you should practice your wording better instead of stuff like "When will you wake up and realize" and "You goofy" isn't an ideal thing too say just letting you know. How too make more people understand better.
@@ChaosX-editz bruh, the black hole was already consuming the universe and for a brief moment he DID TRY to escape it, but only for a brief second. 🤦🏽♂️
@seganintendofan1 this is a lil different really, since with Ty and this other creator, its a peaceful debate..cant really speak for other debates but from the ones ive seen, theyve been chill about the sonic Vs mario debate
Mario fans: if we ignore the game mechanics, mario can use all his power ups and mix them to become the ultimate being. Also mario fans: but super sonic has a time limit bro
Plus sonic has debug mode Wich let's sonic place any item from the entire level plus all monitors and goal posts and stuff meaning that sonic can get infinite rings and super sonic or hyper sonic or miracle sonic none of sonics forms will ever run out and ignoring sonic game mechanics plus debug mode stuff all gives sonic an easy win
Everyone in the Nard's Comment Section: Arguing about Mario or Sonic Being Stronger. Me: Who knows full well that Mario and Sonic teaming up would beat Goku. (Also Mario and Sonic would most likely Work together Nowadays anyways).
Sonic has faced something similar, The Phantom Ruby, which was downplayed by Death Battle, Infinite was stated to be Sonic's most powerful foe, which means more powerful then Solaris.
@@TTVJOJO41323 Not really, considering the fact that Solaris is surpassed by Erazor Djinn from Secret Rings and Infinite is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY stronger.😭
I also don’t like the idea of power ups being brought into a character vs character battle. The characters aren’t their power ups, it’s like trying to pit two athletes against each other with performance enhancing drugs and treating like the outcome proves who’s stronger when really it wouldn’t prove anything because it’s the drugs doing the heavy lifting not the person. It’s like great mario could use a fire flower, but so can peach Luigi toad daisy etc his ability to use them isn’t special therefore sonic could also use it
The only thing wrong with Ty's argument is all these random Marios. This "Black" "Chinese" Mario stuff; they're not Mario at all, unless they're referred to as such in a manual or in the game proper, they're just reused assets just like how Luigi USED to just be a palette swapped Mario. Mario from games like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, and Odyssey are more than likely the same Mario, but Paper Mario is obviously different, and Mario Party is dubious as to if they're the same given some of the zany feats they perform in mini games, but never preform in a more conventional Mario game.
1 Mario is not human 2 the speed is not a matter in his universe therefore doesn't afecta his body 3 the turtle conquer galaxies also fought gods 4 this is not platforming so take Out the limits of Game mechanics nintendo puts to Mario
@@cuhTheEditor is there even limits to the power stars that mario uses? even tho they were never relevent to the games lore unlike super sonic? and besides, mario being faster than a super sonic? How about we ignore the game mechanics and say that mario can use invencibiity forever, he still loses cuz even CLASSIC sonic could travel in time with his raw speed in CD and in 06, sonic and silver used 2 chaos emeralds to travel between time so sonic can literally erase mario from time if he wants to
@@KperaOfficial sonic survived death Mario hasn't unless someone else revives him w a 1 up plus sonic is more durable than Mario he survived death a black hole and being in outer space and back to earth without a space ship or outside help sonic solos Mario no question asked
Actually technically Hyper Sonic is still canon considering the Super Emerlads did make appearance in Sonic Mania in Knuckles section of the game and after all you need Super Emerlads and and The Master Emerlad for this.
Since THAT was retconned, I can see quite them bein' minions, but still bein' somewhere in the royal family. There seem to be varyin' sub-species of Koopas, but it seems like only blood family members are built up like Bowser
I just think both sides here are dumb. This dude supporting Mario thinks that classic sonic is different from the normal sonic that we know, and the dude supporting sonic says that every single Mario Is different. Nah they both are on something
Yeah,but the one on the Sonic is correct about Mario having different Marios. Just like they're different Sonics. Like Archie for example.😅 The kids a kid. The dude looks new in the fandom. 🧐
@@juliemesser2053 Yeah your right, but the guy supporting Sonic literally claims that the Mario from 64 is different from the one we know now (odyssey and wonder) like what the heck
Ikr like I'm pretty sure that Sega themselves confirmed that classic sonic is a sonic from a different universe and Miyamoto also confirmed in an interview that every Mario is the same lol
@@mrmelonman2893 How the hell can it be retconned m8?? Like bruh we literally saw classic sonic and modern sonic as two seperate characters in sonic forces lol
Love it when people debate things and try to bring in other feats that included the main character and try to say "WELL HE, HE DID IT, HE BEAT THE MULTIVERSEL GUY WHO WAS GOING TO DESTROY THE EVERYTHING"
You did this to me and tried to make a comment huh? Dimentio is indeed Outerversal, not multiversal. Let me explain. So first he surpassed and tanked the void. The Void was consuming absolutely everything and he was going to use it to take over everything. Space and Time, Dimensions, Timelines, etc. The fact that he could move and even exist in a realm without time or space is already an IMMEASURABLE feat right there. But there's more. With a single snap of the fingers (held back and without malicious intent) he shook Castle Bleck with a tremor harder than any the void could ever dream up. Dream Depot is indeed infinite-dimensional. I admit, I'm not exactly researched in this topic, so I can't really explain. But if you want to, try reading these sources. Bill Decipher's answer to "What's Dimentio's full power" on Quora. PaleoMario66's Bowser feats. Metal875 Mari Feat Compilations. Even if it wasn't infinite-dimensional, every dream is a universe in Dream Depot is a universe. So considering that a human can dream up to 7 times in a single night, and animals can dream literally hundreds, (Dogs can dream every 10 minutes reptiles can dream 350 times and you know how many Koopas there are in the Mario Universe) Bowser and Dimentio were destroying countless universes at a countless speed. This is amplified to Outerversal thanks to The Republic. (Again can't explain, go to sources.) He got help sure, but he didn't NEED it. Whenever one of the bros gets knocked down, Mario can just continue. Dimentio far outclasses Solaris and Time Eater anyway, so doesn't matter if he needed help he still did it in base and destroyed Paper Bowser later. Dimentio was literally gonna destroy everything. Speaking of Time Eater, he needed Classic, in Super also. Don't say that Mario needed help with all his items when they weren't his trump card. Those items were Balloons, Rockets, and Propellers, not invincible magnum opuses. Sonic needs Super and friends most of the time.
Hyper Sonic easily beats Mario, and don't say "He's not canon," he is undeniably canon due to the super emerald appearances in Sonic Mania. White Tanooki doesn't scale to Super or Hyper, infact it doesn't have feats at all.
@@Christian-fn4cwits not hyper is the same level of power up super sonic does to base sonic Sonics power lvl is 10 Super is 10² Then hyper is 100² times more powerful
Nah man in an interview a developer said there is only one Mario. Meaning that Paper Mario and Mario are the same. Still, Paper Bowser also helped beat Dimentio IN BASE and Mario beat Paper Bowser IN BASE in Paper Jam so the feat applies regardless. Dimentio is an outerversal threat, which edges out both Time Eater and Solaris. Sure Solaris could exist in the past, present, and future, by Dimentio far outpasses it by being able to destroy Dream Depot which is an infinite-dimensional thing, and outerversal thanks to The Republic. Solaris doesn't compare to that. Anyone who has done enough research knows that Base Sonic gets stomped on by Base Mario. Sonic doesn't really transform until later in the fight, plus, in this battle, Sonic doesn't know Mario so why would he go Super first? Mario is guaranteed to pull out his powerups first, which means infinite clones, infinite Superstar, and infinite one-hit ko Bubble Flower thanks to Bottomless Gloves. Plus White Tanooki. Mario outclasses Sonic in every stat in base, and thanks to the Dream Depot feat he can match Sonic's speed in base now. He's done immediately from the start BEFORE he chooses to go Super. If he goes Super, Mario can use White Tanooki at the same time. No, it does not require you to die, that's a game mechanic. If we're using game mechanics anyway then I can use the maker mode from Mario Maker, (he also can't be deleted thanks to Mr. Eraser.) which renders him useless since Mario can change the environment to his will. He can blow everything up, or he can grant himself even more power-ups. He can also just delete Sonic thanks to Mr. Eraser, or embed Sonic with the Woozy sound effect to confuse him. Even so, he has 2 more White Powerups, the Raccoon, and Cat Suit white forms, which you don't need to die for. Nothing has ever gotten through it, and nothing will. I love you to death man, but you should really do more research.
YOOO bro glad to see you here. Tys video can be debunked. Also Paper Mario is NOT PAPER MARIO FRONT THE FIRST 4 GAMES. Paper Mario TOK shows a picture of Peach from every game INSTEAD of paper jam. Meaning that Paper Mario we play as in the first 4 games is the same Mario we always played as. Paper Mario from Paper Jam is shown to be different from the one we play as and there are many more examples i can show. @sapphirx we need to get together and debunk this video cuz most of it is wrong and biased and its not even funny..
18:11 he’s never made a black whole doesn’t mean he can’t do it that’s like saying goku isn’t planetary because he’s never destroyed a planet that’s not a good argument.
@@CuteRedPanda64 A laser and a hedgehog are two different things my guy, this hedgehog happens to have many and I mean m a n y forms but only really needs one, Super Sonic. That combined with his speed and the battles already over before it's even begun. Face it my guy, it really is all about speed lol
Just because Hyper was in Sonic 3 and practically never seen again, the forms still canon. (If hyper made any other appearances besides mods, please let me know.)
The sad thing about this, Sega might do it, but actively not chooses to do so. I didn't quite catch it, but one of the creators didn't like the idea of the power creep trope like it's the case with dragonball and such. Which is why they didn't want to reintroduce neither ultra sonic nor hyper sonic. To be honest, that's not a problem, what a well thought storybook telling couldn't fix.
if Mario fans can have paper Mario then that puts archie sonic on the table. archie sonic does this thing where fate will bend to his favor and make it so that even in the worst situations he is still destined to win against every problem or opponent he faces meaning that even the craziest characters still can't beat sonic because it is literally impossible. basically think canonical plot armor.
@saadaziz1413 i think people also forget that ben has to eventually transform back so he doesn´t get possessed or whatever. the second ben reverts back, he´s cooked
Ty is still being biased in this one (and I feel like you are too not gonna lie), some of the things the other guy pointed out were wrong but he was right for the most part, even if people wanna call him "kid", it's said that a kid like him is more knowledgeable than them.
@@danviferahr1426Mario Fans aren’t as bias or meatriding as Sonic Fans, you can’t prove me wrong in this one. I love Sonic more than Mario too by the way.
Welp, time to make a whole document again. I'll be providing links to images for visible. Hopefully, TH-cam doesn't delete it. No, Dimentio was planning on destroying everything. This can be proven, as the void was stated to destroy all worlds, all dimensions, and all possibilities. Dimentio was able to surpass the void pretty easily in his base form alone. How exactly does he do this? Well, let's go over it. First off, Mario and the others tanked The Void. But that's not even the most important thing here. Mainly, look at Mario's condition after The Void. He has been blasted interdimensionally back to Flipside, and is unconscious. Now, to compare, when Dimentio attacked, Mario and his party was blasted--once again--interdimensionally to The Underwhere, and were once again rendered unconscious. The similarities definitely can't be ignored; Dimentio matched its power. But even then, he has points of surpassing it; his attack that he held back on, mind you, surpassed a tremor from The Void. Dimentio even created a universe, Dimension D, that was completely unaffected by the void, even though the void erase all existence. This means Dimentio has power that can match, get by, and even surpass the void. What can the void do? Well, the void was prophesized to erase anything else that was victim to it's wrath, including what was mentioned by me earlier: all worlds, all dimensions, all timelines, time periods, and even all possibilities. He merely snapped his fingers without malicious intent, and his tremor shook Castle Bleck harder than all the tremors The Void caused; we know he was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Luigi; he needed him. And because String Theory Soup proves that the Marioverse's secrets reside within String Theory, which is a theory that supports 11-dimensionality. This feat was consuming eleven dimensions. Now, there's even more evidence backing up several aspects of this; to start, let's address doubts about The Void destroying dimensions. Next, let's talk about odd occurrences that back up String Theory being valid; to start, aesthetic details indicate String Theory in effect in the Marioverse. THIS is string theory soup. This artifact is completely canon, as Wario is required to gain treasures, and, by story, breaks in and steals them. It is extremely trustworthy, as its bio told to us by a 3rd person omniscient narrator, who knows all. So, when its bio tells us that the universe's secrets can be obtained by drinking the soup, we know the Marioverse abides by string theory, which means erasing all dimensions has a MUCH more impactful meaning. And what with mathematical-like equations existing in worlds like "Lineland," we can determine--for certain--that The Void was going to destroy all mathematical dimensions. And what about String Theory Soup? Is it reliable? Yes. It's the narrator who talks about String Theory Soup's description; third-person omniscient narrator. That is intensely reliable. And now, to address its name "not being important." The last sentence means everything: "Drink not, lest you learn more than what man was ever meant to know." Whatever this soup houses is huge. The earlier sentence states, "All the secrets of the universe are contained within this soup." So, it's something huge and revealing--a secret that man was never meant to know--about the universe. And the name reveals what that secret is; which is consistent since String Theory relates back to the universe. With that said, we can confidently say the multiverse is 11-D; so why are they 12-D, then? The Overthere is a higher plane of existence, above all worlds, and The Void was going to also erase The Overthere. Not to mention how you said Solaris was gonna take out the whole timeline, well, as I just proved, Dimentio would've taken out all timelines, including the parallel ones. m.th-cam.com/video/-G5CrFaNkaI/w-d-xo.html qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-42c4b5d6dd5b02bcf36d796d09ed5c37-pjlq qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3a51806fc18a8289f61661b353346bdc-pjlq m.th-cam.com/video/6sR3bUNY2nA/w-d-xo.html&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2F&source_ve_path=MzY4NDIsMzY4NDIsMjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo th-cam.com/video/6KEgUfq27Qk/w-d-xo.htmlembeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjQsMTY0NTA2&feature=emb_share cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131496827158540308/image0.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131498578435637258/image0.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131499661266518016/image0.jpg th-cam.com/video/DzdBCqn0pco/w-d-xo.htmlembeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjQsMTY0NTA2&feature=emb_share qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f34cad6c65e37b3c754854afff277ada-pjlq qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3205b0fb1cc1fb3de6cc11aeb4d442a3-pjlq cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131501079188738108/image0.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131502771129045043/image0.jpg qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd82a74d32ee226c32c5141ce3e8f14b-pjlq cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1044688622512775189/1131508711689572463/image0.jpg qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd79459fa9f28e471ec0e3b784eb5e94-pjlq Also, what do you mean "not the others?" If you're saying the multiverse of Paper Mario is different from the main one, I already debunked that in the comment section of your last video. Even if they didn't do it alone, that still doesn't change the fact that they TOOK TURNS fighting him. Not only that, but you also brought up how you can switch characters during the fight. If you're good enough at the game, you can beat Dimentio with just one character. Meanwhile, Sonic, Shadow, and Silver were fighting Solaris throughout the whole timeline. About that Paper Mario inventory you pulled up, those give him TEMPORARY abilities. And the Pure Hearts don't amp Mario in any way. As they guy debunking you said in his video, they were ONLY used to negate Dimentio's invincibility. Dimentio is also immortal as well. Type 1, to be exact. Aging, disease, stuff like that wouldn't harm him. The only reason Dimentio wasn't fought in 3 points in time was because as I said before, he destroyed all timelines. And you're also bringing up the fact that Solaris was being fought in 3 different time periods. Because Solaris was omnipresent at that point, this is the same as being damaged by 3 people at the same time. "What does blowing out Solaris's flame change?" If you read up on the lore, you would see that this is no ordinary flame.
It's Solaris's conscience. This is why he's called "The Flame of Hope" and "The Flame of Soleanna." It's because that flame is a vessel, or life force of some sorts that he's represented by. Taking away Invulnerability isn't awakening. It just means the opposing force is now able to take damage. When Bowser said "The Pure Hearts have given us power!," he was actually talking about the extra abilities you get with them. Except in the game, they don't jump him. They take turns. And back to my previous point, you can beat him without switching. Yes, I will admit, the person debunking you was using vague proof on Mario and Paper Mario being the same. But as I said this before, I debunked this. Looks like I'll be putting my proof here again. Read this Google document: docs.google.com/document/d/1fBpaof7rqGeDbHVnio8Cu_ixEN58MlB9ReI7xTnhlA8/edit?usp=drivesdk Also, you're using Paper Jam to prove your "point," which has been contradicted multiple times by various other Mario games. Not to mention, Paper Jam also takes place in a story book. So what does this prove? Simple. The Mario and Luigi entered a book that they were already featured in. It also supports the ability of acasuality, which is the ability to not be affected by cause and effect. This is proven, as the other Mario would be a paradox. They wouldn't be able to exist together, yet they can. Also, how do you know Miyamoto wasn't talking about the canon versions of Mario? And with your logic, then this would also mean that Ian Flynn would also be part of the author fallacy situation. "Mario's strength accomplishments aren't better than Sonic's" We can debate that. If it was a real black hole, then it would've almost instantly devoured the planet, since black holes are literally stated to absorb light itself. But it didn't. It was slower than that of a black hole. Not only that, but the black hole in Sonic takes a spherical structure. Real black holes don't. Mario in Galaxy survived that black hole. Unlike Mario Party, Mario in Galaxy didn't have enough time to react. And there's also the feat of how Giant Bowser can resist a black hole, and Mario is able to outrun him. And you'd still need to prove they aren't the same Mario rather than using "inconsistencies" as proof. Also, the Marios get stronger depending on where the game takes place. For example, in some games, he's able to drown. But in the New Super Mario Bros series, he can breathe underwater indefinitely. Mario's universe was taken out by a black hole. Guess what. He tanked it. You also have yet to prove that Rosalina actually saved Mario and the Galaxy. Just putting a little note of text up there isn't gonna make anyone believe it, unless of course, they're delusional. And those Grand Stars you were referring to are also stated to destroy the whole universe as well. You STILL have yet to prove that RPG Mario is different from the main one. As I said, no one is gonna believe it unless there is VISIBLE proof. The void wisp is basically the same as power-ups in Mario. Also, that black hole you showed with that little gameplay snippet, is a dwarf black hole. If it was a real one, not only would it have been much bigger, but it would've done MUCH more damage. All Void Sonic is doing is absorbing anything big enough to fit the black hole. That's it. And not only that, but you'd have to prove that Super Sonic can also create a black hole. For this, he'd need some type of grand spatial manipulation abilities. However, one of the only things I would say the guy was wrong about was the Chaos Emeralds not having infinite power, as this is stated and proven that they
to Vanda--thus, he was in between dimensions at the time. Meaning, he was outside of the space-time continuum--which all qualifies for infinite speed. vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/f/fe/Culex_was_in_a_dimensional_rift.png/revision/latest?cb=20171227001424 Those are all speed feats light and above. Just because the game doesn't show him moving that fast doesn't mean anything. It's a little concept known as PERCEPTION. If Infinite was really stronger than Solaris, not only should he be nigh-omnipresent, it he should also be a timeline destroyer. But no, he just controls dimensions. Similar to Dimentio. The Master Emerald is stated to be 14 times stronger than the Chaos Emeralds. Since when was it stated that the Phantom Ruby was stronger? You do know that Hyper is pretty much fearless…. Right? That clip you showed only referred to Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Colors Ultimate. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles. AND on top of that, I even have a screenshot that gives the reason as to why Hyper Sonic is no longer canon. (Link below) "Massively stronger than any Mario bosses" Ahem. I must be missing something. Solaris has already been proven weaker, as well, Dimentio exists. Actually, I didn't even scale him fully. I mainly just did his base form. "Oh, but Time Eater did this!" Culex. Master and controller of time in the Marioverse. "Outscales the strongest version of Mario" This is irrelevant, but didn't Bowser literally one shot the Manga Kamen in the manga, who can write their verse however he sees fit? Sonic freezing time? Super Mario 64: Tick Tock Clock level. Rewinding it? Acasuality. Invincibility? Countered by the Star Rod. Reality Warping? Resistance to it, and also countered by the Star Rod. Immeasurable Speed? Just proved immeasurable speed with the speed feats I showed. Wishing Power? Star Rod, Dream Stone, Star/Royal Stickers. Why does he take fall damage in previous games, but doesn't in others? Like I said, he gets stronger in games that take place after them. pbs.twimg.com/media/FvVXsjzXgAAhNtK?format=jpg&name=medium
Hey, I'm a fan of both Mario and Sonic yet I still think Mario wins. I still got some good points and I sense a bit of bias in some of Tyre's logic. Some things aren't really brought up in these kinds of debates. I'll respectfully decline the L. Still #MarioSweep
@Shadowthehairhoob Mario has immeasurable speed thanks to him being able to move throughout spaces without time and can defeat characters that transcend time, like Dimentio. Sonic has just shown this capability on more occasions, but Mario can keep up
I think Sonic will win in a fight against mario and because I can scale sonic to boundless in base form and I can scale mario to at least high multiversal thats my opinion.
Y'all can debate all day on who would win, it don't really matter to me, but we all know what would determine the winner: plot. But I will say, Sonic has taken some pretty hilariously embarrassing Ls: pretty much got 1-shotted by Shadow in that one late episode of Sonic X (hell Tails lasted longer), Mephiles proved how easy takin' him out could be, the beatdown he took at the beginning of Forces & if people wanna bring up Archie Sonic, we can't do so.......without bringin' up possibly the most hilarious L he's ever taken: the "fight" with King Shadow. Mans knocked him out before his cape even hit the floor. Mario's taken Ls too, I seen 'em, but I see HIS bein' brought up more than Sonic's
There's a thing nintendo does with Mario called Game mechanics which are there only to keep the Game more interesting, take them Out to see the actual truth, that's why You have to take out Mario's Game mechanics limits to SEE an actual fight, this is not platforming
@@NebulaSon He didn't even say things like "Mario wins no difficulty". He said Mario wins with EXTREME difficulty. This means if Mario plays his cards right he can beat him but Sonic can also win as well. It's not like how Ty said that Sonic wins no difficulty.
when i saw the thumbnail, i almost got mad because i'm sick and tired of this "sonic vs mario" bullsh*t that happened every year no matter where i go. all i wanted people to do is make mario and sonic friends like that youtuber "MSKFan15 (Mario Sonic Kirby Fan 15)" did. I tried ignore the video but my curiosity forced me to watch. when i decided to watch it, i frustratingly said "Alright fine, i'll watch it! but you owe me one". don't get me wrong, i like both of these characters, but sometimes i feel like mario still needs somemore praise and popularity. i'm not trying to offend people who like sonic more them mario, i'm trying to remind you about how i feel about mario vs sonic videos always ending with mario losing. hopefully people will understand what i'm saying.
"mario still needs some more praise and popularity"? no offense, but mario is already the most recognized video game character on earth, pretty sure he won't need extra attention....
8:07 I agree with this. We can’t just blindly accept what the author says. Logic still exists no matter who is speaking. If it helps support something that already exists, then sure. But if it doesn’t make sense or if it’s a direct contradiction, then we can’t accept their words. Not to mention, authors don’t have perfect memory. And when they give their characters abilities, they aren’t a math and science genius who realize how incredible those abilities are.
Honestly, i think sonic would win or it would be a tie, but if you wanna determine who would win you should actually make your own scaling video instead of just reacting to someone
Imo both Tye and Josiah downplayed Sonic. Here is a whole paragraph of Sonic’s Powerscale: Game Sonic: In order to scale Sonic’s strongest feats, we need to look at one character, and his name is Solaris. Solaris’ goal was to destroy ALL timelines (in the context of the game timeline means universe). Ian Flynn, head writer at Sega, said that there are an infinite number of multiverses in Sonic. Since Solaris was going to destroy all universes, and there are a infinite number of them, this means that Solaris scales to hyperversal, meaning at this time Super Sonic is above Hyperversal. A decade later, Sega released the game, Sonic Forces, with the next big villain, Infinite. Although Infinite has no feats to prove he is stronger than Solaris, he is stated to BE stronger than Solaris, and at the time the strongest Sonic villain. Head of Sega Izuka, said that the next Sonic villain will always be stronger than the last (Exceptions: Deadly Six and Nega Wisp Armor), he also said, along side the head writers of Sega at the time, that Infinite IS the strongest villain. We also can use evidence from the comics to back up our answer. In the IDW Comics (which are canon), Eggman states that the Phantom Ruby, Infinites power source, is far superior to the Master Emerald. Since the all 7 Chaos Emeralds are weaker than the Master Emerald, and the Super Sonic beat Solaris, this means that Infinite should be greater than Solaris, and he scales to greater than Hyperversal (People say that the generator to power Infinite was destroyed, weakening him in the process, but it’s stated that the back up generator restored that power before he fought Sonic). In Sonic’s 3rd fight with Infinite, and his 2nd fight with him, he SLAMMED him in base form, making Sonic stronger than Infinite, and at base form Hyperversal. In Sonic Frontiers, Sonic faces The Titans, The Titans are far stronger than base Sonic, causing him to need the help of the Chaos Emeralds, this places each Titan WAY above Hyperversal. Since Sonic needed the help of Sage to defeat The End in the final fight, it means The End is WAY above The Titans, and since Super Sonic 2 in The Final Horizan, DOGGED The End, and even Cyber Sonic ONE SHOTTED HIM. (Sonic form powerscaling: Base < Super < Super 2 < Cyber < Hyper) Hyper Sonic is Sonic’s strongest form, being 49 times stronger than Cyber Sonic, which is already WAY above base Sonic.
@@TTG-37 that would also mean the same thing to Mario since Dimentio was going to wipe out ALL of the Mario universe and Mario beat him in base. Also the first fight with infinite, Sonic got jumped. Second fight, Sonic still lost. Third fight Sonic won with the help of the rookie (Us) despite the rookie not having any powers.
Clearly, Nard has never heard of dream team (dream stone has the power of dreams which are immeasurable universes) and Mario party 5( Mario can catch up to bowser who destroys inf dreams 1 by 1. Also, Mario can rewind time when he's defeated against super sonic plus bottomless gloves, Mario can use the magnet mushroom to just take away the emeralds when sonic summons them and then blitz him. Mario also has a broom to wipe existence. It's a shame Mario gets downplayed. I haven't even brought paper Mario in.
@@danviferahr1426 I meant when he summons the emeralds. Not when he actually turns super sonic. And, sort of. It sucks in all items instead of just metal.
"Paper Mario and Mario are not canon" Luigi reconnecting with himself in Mario galaxy and being able to interact with him as if nothing had happened. Even in Mario party Bowser mentions that Bowsitos works with him as his "henchman" seriously friend Nintendo had already done this before and now they make a fuss over 2 Mario's. and Saying that Super Mario RPG 2 is Paper Mario only with the Name changed due to the Copyright between Square and Nintendo at that time lol.
@@TTVJOJO41323 Exactly like thede people out here really thinking that Mario is weak and all just cuz his games aren't portrayed in some cringey anime style with loud music lol
The inconsistancy around paper jam absolutely sucks. A POKEY has the sticker star crown. You know, something that made a whole (worst) game? THE STICKER STAR CROWN. HOW TF DID A POKEY GET THE STICKER STAR CROWN???
It’s not that hyper isn’t canon. It’s that most of the time it’s unavailable. Also we might be using sonic&knuckles instead of 3&knuckles. I still may think Sonic may take the w, but it’s kinda a fair fight since we talking about Mario with wario as a star child survive the dimension collapsing. Mario is debatably as durable than Sonic with that. Again… I still think Sonic may get the w, but Mario has the retry clock to restart the entire fight. Lastly, Mario has fought dream bowser. And dreams in Mario are basically their own universe. So even though Sonic may win, Mario might put a decent fight.
This dude Tyre trying to say that he is not biased when he is literally downplaying Mario and not even giving him an actual research, and I find it not fair that Sega gives Sonic all these transformations but Nintendo doesn’t for Mario and Kirby
@@1ario15 people downplaying a character is mostly due to them fearing their fav character would lose they don't try to be open minded and know why people think that way they just wanna meatride their fav and call anyone an idiot for having a different take
Fair fight? so Mario isn’t allowed to: Use Items Have Items Move Talk Blink Yell for help Punch Kick Block Duck Jump Attack Hide Run Use Hammer Change perspectives Swim Think Eat Drink Breathe And Give up Sonic is allowed to use all of his forms, friends unlimited rings
While I like the fact that they brought up that hyper sonic isn’t canon Technically, neither is white tanookie, and it’s not like it’s something Mario can just grab either Mario’s power ups come from blocks and can be used by anyone. Meaning hypothetically if Mario actually went to grab the white tanooki, sonic could just steal it. That is if it were canon, Which it’s not. It’s a game mechanic for people who can’t get through a level, meaning we’d have to compare base Mario to super sonic, and FP sonic(electricity mode in frontiers) Let’s see, Mario beats sonic in strength. But that’s really about it Sonic can move through stopped time, putting him way above Mario speed While mario can be taken off guard Sonic cannot be, In canon his allergies equate to how much danger he’s in. If mario is attacking him, Sonic will get the sniffles and realize that he’s gonna get attacked Let’s go over durability Mario was able to survive a blackhole in mario galaxy, and possibly more. Sonic could do the same but needed the wisps assistance, So durability does go to mario Reaction speed, Goes to sonic I’m sorry, but if you really think mario can see and process faster than sonic, you’re wrong. And here’s why Sonic could react to attacks from time eater, Solaris and infinite Infinite was stated to be somewhat faster than sonic. But here’s the kicker Sonic might beat mario in strength too Sonics constantly growing, As I can tell. A certain feat from one of his fantasy book games actually might give sonic the win Eraser Djinn was threatening to destroy multiple multiverses(The storybooks all contain different multiverses) He put himself above that, Sonic with three world rings, could beat that. But there’s also one last thing I’d like to mention Even though super sonic can be slowed down, Hes completely invulnerable. Making it impossible for Mario to hurt super sonic, even with every powerup he gets Though one issue, sonics personality. He wouldn’t take mario seriously obviously, He’s an overweight plumber. So mario could sneak sonic with something fatal and kill him in base. Mario unlike Sonic constantly takes any threat seriously, And we know Sonic even in a life or death scenario won’t take a fight serious. It comes down to whether sonic feels as though Mario’s a threat, or Mario feels as though sonics a threat.
Sonic has been caught off before In Sonic Lost World he didn’t dodge Zomnom’s sandwich (twice I might add) In Sonic Unleashed he’s been caught off guard by Eggman and didn’t react fast enough to get out of his trap. (In Super form I might add)
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official true but Both of those times, sonic had the high ground against both of his opponents He could’ve easily beat Zomom, and he could’ve beat Eggman in super form Like I said though, it’s not impossible to catch sonic off guard, he’s got a massive ego
@@glitchtherabbit9631narratively Mario has a lot going for hin compared to sonic. (In my opinion) Sonic died from a laser and needed to be brought back with the dragon- i mean chaos emeralds (i'm not sorry for making the joke) While mario got caught off guard and eaten and 1 hp left and won a stronger version of bowletta. Or sonic forces he struggled with infinite because he was faster then him. Bowser tore through time and space to go to the past and still lost to yoshi and baby mario. Not saying Mario IS stronger then sonic but mario in narative is more impressive then sonic
@@TCBlueFire true, but sonic did fight Erasor djinn in a weakened base form(at the time, Erasor Djinn absorbs like 101 universes.) and beat him pretty easily, I’d say that’s somewhat impressive
As the “little kid” who made the debunk video in the first place, I didn’t expect to have nearly as much support or props on my side as I thought 🤔
I do admit (even under Tys pinned comment on my video) I got stuff wrong, only really on Sonic, but I don’t see Ty doing something similar. Not really helped by the fact that he’s coming out with a vid about how every Mario is mostly the same as said by him on his responses pinned comment, meaning his whole comp Mario argument is gonna be contradicted. Oh, and to those who apparently think I’m biased against Sonic, I literally said in the end of my video that I DID like and respect Sonic, thought he was powerful, and think that both characters can still win, but I guess the fans were too busy writing their hate comments to continue watching 😂
But really, the whole main Idea of the debunk and a good majority of my Mario videos were to defend him from downplay. I even have a more recent one that shows paper and normal Mario are the same regardless of Paper Jam. And you can’t tell me Ty isn’t completely against the simple IDEA of Mario being powerful when he said he’s “not even planet level”.
Goated
Fair points. I think characters are getting downplayed to an extent on both sides.
Also it’s all jokes over here! Loving the debate and both you and Ty are doing great with the content!🔥🙌
@@SuperNardfulHappy to know you’re respectful about it 👍🏿
@@SuperNardful 1 Mario is not human
2 the speed is not a matter in his universe therefore doesn't affect his body
3 the turtle conquer galaxies also fought gods
4 this is not platforming so take Out the limits of Game mechanics nintendo puts to Mario only to keep the gameplay intresting
5 Sonic has an official timeline, Mario doesn't, Mario has quite the toonforce
@@JosiahTheStickGuy Tbh both sides are good but you should practice your wording better instead of stuff like "When will you wake up and realize" and "You goofy" isn't an ideal thing too say just letting you know. How too make more people understand better.
Also isnt it odd that he said "mario didnt have time to react to the black hole" but than later states mario has light speed reaction 💀
lol I know
Mario fans lost again
@@ChaosX-editz bruh, the black hole was already consuming the universe and for a brief moment he DID TRY to escape it, but only for a brief second. 🤦🏽♂️
thats because mario is really inconsistent
Well hold on actually. You're contradicting yourself because light cant escape a black hole. Just saying
Seeing Sonic and Mario fans argue with each other, especially Sonic purists and other sonic fans, is entertaining in it's own right. 😂
Yeah it's feels weird being in between cause ya just everyone fighting over your head
@seganintendofan1 this is a lil different really, since with Ty and this other creator, its a peaceful debate..cant really speak for other debates but from the ones ive seen, theyve been chill about the sonic Vs mario debate
Let’s be real, it doesn’t matter how strong Mario is, Sonic would be so fast that Mario wouldn’t have time to react to a spindash.
Oh God I can hear People Mashing their Keyboards trying to reply to you.
*cough cough* Same guy who got hit by a sandwich moving slower than average human reaction time?
@@TylerOfChaosYT Wait, when did that happen?
@@scanchannel3259 I just started a war, didn’t I?
@@TylerOfChaosYT Wait what??
Mario fans: if we ignore the game mechanics, mario can use all his power ups and mix them to become the ultimate being.
Also mario fans: but super sonic has a time limit bro
THATS WHAT IM SAYING
Fax
Ong
Plus sonic has debug mode Wich let's sonic place any item from the entire level plus all monitors and goal posts and stuff meaning that sonic can get infinite rings and super sonic or hyper sonic or miracle sonic none of sonics forms will ever run out and ignoring sonic game mechanics plus debug mode stuff all gives sonic an easy win
to be fair sonic has already beaten ultimate beings anyway
Death battle did Sonic dirty
Everyone in the Nard's Comment Section: Arguing about Mario or Sonic Being Stronger.
Me: Who knows full well that Mario and Sonic teaming up would beat Goku. (Also Mario and Sonic would most likely Work together Nowadays anyways).
They don't need to team up to beat goku, they both solo by themselves
@@meachy1 Correct!
@@meachy1 Exactly lol
@@meachy1 true lol.
@@meachy1 fax😊
About the wonder flower argument, it seems mario doesn’t even have control of what it does
Sonic has faced something similar, The Phantom Ruby, which was downplayed by Death Battle, Infinite was stated to be Sonic's most powerful foe, which means more powerful then Solaris.
@@Spider-Man-257Author fallacy..Solaris beats Infinite
@Jojo41323 I would say the same thing about Mario and Paper Mario are the same character, which their not.
@@TTVJOJO41323 Not really, considering the fact that Solaris is surpassed by Erazor Djinn from Secret Rings and Infinite is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY stronger.😭
I also don’t like the idea of power ups being brought into a character vs character battle. The characters aren’t their power ups, it’s like trying to pit two athletes against each other with performance enhancing drugs and treating like the outcome proves who’s stronger when really it wouldn’t prove anything because it’s the drugs doing the heavy lifting not the person. It’s like great mario could use a fire flower, but so can peach Luigi toad daisy etc his ability to use them isn’t special therefore sonic could also use it
The only thing wrong with Ty's argument is all these random Marios. This "Black" "Chinese" Mario stuff; they're not Mario at all, unless they're referred to as such in a manual or in the game proper, they're just reused assets just like how Luigi USED to just be a palette swapped Mario. Mario from games like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, and Odyssey are more than likely the same Mario, but Paper Mario is obviously different, and Mario Party is dubious as to if they're the same given some of the zany feats they perform in mini games, but never preform in a more conventional Mario game.
Who says mario can't just be into different cultures smh
@Shadowthehairhoob what are you even saying ?
Look, I love both of them, but it's obvious Sonic would win... super easily.
I’m with ya
Ice flower
@@arturliviuain't doing shit to Sonic.
@@nerdydebaterjj sonic got frozen în mania
@@arturliviuyounger weaker version of sonic
Bruh, stop the debating. Both Sonic and Mario are the goats.
Josiah: “he can use Giga Cat!!!1!!!”
So Mario has to build Lighthouses at light speed.
If Hyper Sonic isn’t canon, then explain why not only can Tails and Knuckles go Hyper, but now Amy can in the current version of Sonic 3 in origins?
1 Mario is not human
2 the speed is not a matter in his universe therefore doesn't afecta his body
3 the turtle conquer galaxies also fought gods
4 this is not platforming so take Out the limits of Game mechanics nintendo puts to Mario
As If super sonic having a time limit *wasn't* a game mechanic.
Mario still loses
@@KperaOfficial Mario can just turn off his invincibility and its over for sonic
@@cuhTheEditor is there even limits to the power stars that mario uses? even tho they were never relevent to the games lore unlike super sonic? and besides, mario being faster than a super sonic?
How about we ignore the game mechanics and say that mario can use invencibiity forever, he still loses cuz even CLASSIC sonic could travel in time with his raw speed in CD and in 06, sonic and silver used 2 chaos emeralds to travel between time so sonic can literally erase mario from time if he wants to
bud accept Sonic finishes him
@@KperaOfficial sonic survived death Mario hasn't unless someone else revives him w a 1 up plus sonic is more durable than Mario he survived death a black hole and being in outer space and back to earth without a space ship or outside help sonic solos Mario no question asked
Actually technically Hyper Sonic is still canon considering the Super Emerlads did make appearance in Sonic Mania in Knuckles section of the game and after all you need Super Emerlads and and The Master Emerlad for this.
Look modern sonic doesn't have a hyper form or a master emeralds only classic sonic only has it
They're technically the same character though
@@kkemp-mu9vg Classic is sonic from the past
@@kkemp-mu9vg they're both the same character bro
@@kkemp-mu9vgthe super emeralds are currently in another dimension
They are canon to the modern sonic universe
I think he pronounces Solaris like cause of "Solar" 😂
Couldn't agree more lol
8:58The Koopalings are adopted, they're not biologically related but they are still Bowser's children.
Since THAT was retconned, I can see quite them bein' minions, but still bein' somewhere in the royal family. There seem to be varyin' sub-species of Koopas, but it seems like only blood family members are built up like Bowser
I like to believe that they're adopted.@@themenacingsloth
Technically I'm more of a Donkey Kong person since I find him alot cooler than Mario but good point lol.
mario fans cant take the L.
Same can be said for sonic fans.
even though i really REALLY love both mario and sonic, literally both fandoms cant take the L.
This arguement is getting Boring tbh 😒
Both of the fandoms will be at war forever
@@tayplayzmm2 for real, and it is getting a bit annoying tbh
Little bro thought he was cooking with that hyper wasn’t canon
I just think both sides here are dumb. This dude supporting Mario thinks that classic sonic is different from the normal sonic that we know, and the dude supporting sonic says that every single Mario Is different. Nah they both are on something
Yeah,but the one on the Sonic is correct about Mario having different Marios. Just like they're different Sonics. Like Archie for example.😅 The kids a kid. The dude looks new in the fandom. 🧐
@@juliemesser2053 Yeah your right, but the guy supporting Sonic literally claims that the Mario from 64 is different from the one we know now (odyssey and wonder) like what the heck
Ikr like I'm pretty sure that Sega themselves confirmed that classic sonic is a sonic from a different universe and Miyamoto also confirmed in an interview that every Mario is the same lol
@@david_cool427YTthat was retconed in the sonic encyclopedia and izuka himself said their the same nice try buddy
@@mrmelonman2893 How the hell can it be retconned m8?? Like bruh we literally saw classic sonic and modern sonic as two seperate characters in sonic forces lol
LET'S GO!!! ANOTHER PART!!!
dont understand why yall gotta fight all the time why not just like both
Because we are dumb
@@DreaguiVII Nah just because fans talking real shit about it 😒
Bscause it's fun to debate who would win in a fight.
on god😭😭
Yes, but it's starting to get annoying 😒
Love it when people debate things and try to bring in other feats that included the main character and try to say "WELL HE, HE DID IT, HE BEAT THE MULTIVERSEL GUY WHO WAS GOING TO DESTROY THE EVERYTHING"
True.
You did this to me and tried to make a comment huh?
Dimentio is indeed Outerversal, not multiversal. Let me explain. So first he surpassed and tanked the void. The Void was consuming absolutely everything and he was going to use it to take over everything. Space and Time, Dimensions, Timelines, etc. The fact that he could move and even exist in a realm without time or space is already an IMMEASURABLE feat right there. But there's more. With a single snap of the fingers (held back and without malicious intent) he shook Castle Bleck with a tremor harder than any the void could ever dream up. Dream Depot is indeed infinite-dimensional. I admit, I'm not exactly researched in this topic, so I can't really explain. But if you want to, try reading these sources.
Bill Decipher's answer to "What's Dimentio's full power" on Quora.
PaleoMario66's Bowser feats.
Metal875 Mari Feat Compilations.
Even if it wasn't infinite-dimensional, every dream is a universe in Dream Depot is a universe. So considering that a human can dream up to 7 times in a single night, and animals can dream literally hundreds, (Dogs can dream every 10 minutes reptiles can dream 350 times and you know how many Koopas there are in the Mario Universe) Bowser and Dimentio were destroying countless universes at a countless speed. This is amplified to Outerversal thanks to The Republic. (Again can't explain, go to sources.)
He got help sure, but he didn't NEED it. Whenever one of the bros gets knocked down, Mario can just continue. Dimentio far outclasses Solaris and Time Eater anyway, so doesn't matter if he needed help he still did it in base and destroyed Paper Bowser later. Dimentio was literally gonna destroy everything. Speaking of Time Eater, he needed Classic, in Super also. Don't say that Mario needed help with all his items when they weren't his trump card. Those items were Balloons, Rockets, and Propellers, not invincible magnum opuses. Sonic needs Super and friends most of the time.
@@sapphirx9850 that's multiversal
@@mynameisntimportant1374Outerversal because of platonic concepts. Without the republic it's 11D to 12D.
@@jamesjackson6717 Okay but it still we DO have the republic. Still outerversal.
Nard..................... I AM NOT TAKING THE L
Mario had cartoon physics
Hyper Sonic easily beats Mario, and don't say "He's not canon," he is undeniably canon due to the super emerald appearances in Sonic Mania. White Tanooki doesn't scale to Super or Hyper, infact it doesn't have feats at all.
That’s a remake of that from sonic 3 doesn’t count.
Bro, learn what white tanooki mario is
And hyper doesn't have feats to and is fodder/weak so what's your point
@@brendaflowers1719it's 7x stronger than super sonic, which is hyperversal lmao.
@@Christian-fn4cwits not hyper is the same level of power up super sonic does to base sonic
Sonics power lvl is 10
Super is 10²
Then hyper is 100² times more powerful
14:11 you see why I don't like debating these people? Lmao
Sonic could pick up maMario and run with him and he would disintegrate due to the speed humans can handle
Mario fans seem to forget that one hit and mario loses his powerup,sonic slams prove me wrong.
you've been proven wrong
how tho@@Cypherbroski
game mechanic huh?how come its in the movie tho check your fax blud@nrpg0108
By that logic sonic dies in a hit in every single game
the above comment @@Metal_Sonic_Glazer
Nah man in an interview a developer said there is only one Mario. Meaning that Paper Mario and Mario are the same. Still, Paper Bowser also helped beat Dimentio IN BASE and Mario beat Paper Bowser IN BASE in Paper Jam so the feat applies regardless. Dimentio is an outerversal threat, which edges out both Time Eater and Solaris. Sure Solaris could exist in the past, present, and future, by Dimentio far outpasses it by being able to destroy Dream Depot which is an infinite-dimensional thing, and outerversal thanks to The Republic. Solaris doesn't compare to that.
Anyone who has done enough research knows that Base Sonic gets stomped on by Base Mario. Sonic doesn't really transform until later in the fight, plus, in this battle, Sonic doesn't know Mario so why would he go Super first? Mario is guaranteed to pull out his powerups first, which means infinite clones, infinite Superstar, and infinite one-hit ko Bubble Flower thanks to Bottomless Gloves. Plus White Tanooki. Mario outclasses Sonic in every stat in base, and thanks to the Dream Depot feat he can match Sonic's speed in base now. He's done immediately from the start BEFORE he chooses to go Super.
If he goes Super, Mario can use White Tanooki at the same time. No, it does not require you to die, that's a game mechanic. If we're using game mechanics anyway then I can use the maker mode from Mario Maker, (he also can't be deleted thanks to Mr. Eraser.) which renders him useless since Mario can change the environment to his will. He can blow everything up, or he can grant himself even more power-ups. He can also just delete Sonic thanks to Mr. Eraser, or embed Sonic with the Woozy sound effect to confuse him. Even so, he has 2 more White Powerups, the Raccoon, and Cat Suit white forms, which you don't need to die for. Nothing has ever gotten through it, and nothing will.
I love you to death man, but you should really do more research.
Bro be writing essays
@@thelogicsonic5980Hes right tho just as an fyi
YOOO bro glad to see you here. Tys video can be debunked. Also Paper Mario is NOT PAPER MARIO FRONT THE FIRST 4 GAMES. Paper Mario TOK shows a picture of Peach from every game INSTEAD of paper jam. Meaning that Paper Mario we play as in the first 4 games is the same Mario we always played as. Paper Mario from Paper Jam is shown to be different from the one we play as and there are many more examples i can show. @sapphirx we need to get together and debunk this video cuz most of it is wrong and biased and its not even funny..
@@TTVJOJO41323 Ik I’m just saying I will read your comment but not a whole essay like above me
@@thelogicsonic5980 Valid. Thank you for clarifying
18:11 he’s never made a black whole doesn’t mean he can’t do it that’s like saying goku isn’t planetary because he’s never destroyed a planet that’s not a good argument.
Sonic really needs nothing but his speed, that's it lol
Speed isn't everything.
@@CuteRedPanda64 that's funny, that's hilarious actually. When your faster than light there's not much else you need to take care a plumber lol
@@CaptainOfTheLeviathan Mario literally dodged a laser that was faster than light.
@@CuteRedPanda64 A laser and a hedgehog are two different things my guy, this hedgehog happens to have many and I mean m a n y forms but only really needs one, Super Sonic. That combined with his speed and the battles already over before it's even begun. Face it my guy, it really is all about speed lol
@@CaptainOfTheLeviathan Yeah funny how The hedgehog needs MANY forms to fight anyone and Mario beats bosses in his base form.
Just because Hyper was in Sonic 3 and practically never seen again, the forms still canon.
(If hyper made any other appearances besides mods, please let me know.)
I'll decline the L you can keep it bro.
Sadly you don’t have a choice
I do and i decline those L's again you can keep it@@SuperNardful
@@SuperNardful sorry nard but after seeing Josiahs response you have to take the L
@@brendaflowers1719 Nard: *Pulls out a uno reverse*
@@SuperNardful React to Josiah's new debunk on Tyre, I dare you.
If an Archie form like Ultra Sonic was canon he kicking Mario's plate
The sad thing about this, Sega might do it, but actively not chooses to do so. I didn't quite catch it, but one of the creators didn't like the idea of the power creep trope like it's the case with dragonball and such. Which is why they didn't want to reintroduce neither ultra sonic nor hyper sonic. To be honest, that's not a problem, what a well thought storybook telling couldn't fix.
I really think that nard and tyre would be good friends
if Mario fans can have paper Mario then that puts archie sonic on the table. archie sonic does this thing where fate will bend to his favor and make it so that even in the worst situations he is still destined to win against every problem or opponent he faces meaning that even the craziest characters still can't beat sonic because it is literally impossible. basically think canonical plot armor.
BRO. BEN1000000 HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT ARCHIE SONIC. 😂😂
Mario kun and dr mario kun victim
Alien x
@saadaziz1413 i think people also forget that ben has to eventually transform back so he doesn´t get possessed or whatever. the second ben reverts back, he´s cooked
Get ready for a part 3 or 4 bro
Ty is still being biased in this one (and I feel like you are too not gonna lie), some of the things the other guy pointed out were wrong but he was right for the most part, even if people wanna call him "kid", it's said that a kid like him is more knowledgeable than them.
Nah he actually isn't,i have nothing against mario but the fanbase is just biased af, and they think that gameplay mechanics=feats.
im gonna be honest, yes ty is a little biased, but mario fans are way more biased
and biased or not, hes still right
@@danviferahr1426 Not really.
@@danviferahr1426Mario Fans aren’t as bias or meatriding as Sonic Fans, you can’t prove me wrong in this one. I love Sonic more than Mario too by the way.
He could only combo stuff with double cherry
Time to copy and paste my response to this video lmfao. It's time for an actual scaler to step in and put these Sonic fans down.
Welp, time to make a whole document again. I'll be providing links to images for visible. Hopefully, TH-cam doesn't delete it.
No, Dimentio was planning on destroying everything. This can be proven, as the void was stated to destroy all worlds, all dimensions, and all possibilities. Dimentio was able to surpass the void pretty easily in his base form alone. How exactly does he do this? Well, let's go over it. First off, Mario and the others tanked The Void. But that's not even the most important thing here. Mainly, look at Mario's condition after The Void. He has been blasted interdimensionally back to Flipside, and is unconscious. Now, to compare, when Dimentio attacked, Mario and his party was blasted--once again--interdimensionally to The Underwhere, and were once again rendered unconscious. The similarities definitely can't be ignored; Dimentio matched its power. But even then, he has points of surpassing it; his attack that he held back on, mind you, surpassed a tremor from The Void. Dimentio even created a universe, Dimension D, that was completely unaffected by the void, even though the void erase all existence. This means Dimentio has power that can match, get by, and even surpass the void. What can the void do? Well, the void was prophesized to erase anything else that was victim to it's wrath, including what was mentioned by me earlier: all worlds, all dimensions, all timelines, time periods, and even all possibilities. He merely snapped his fingers without malicious intent, and his tremor shook Castle Bleck harder than all the tremors The Void caused; we know he was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Luigi; he needed him. And because String Theory Soup proves that the Marioverse's secrets reside within String Theory, which is a theory that supports 11-dimensionality. This feat was consuming eleven dimensions. Now, there's even more evidence backing up several aspects of this; to start, let's address doubts about The Void destroying dimensions. Next, let's talk about odd occurrences that back up String Theory being valid; to start, aesthetic details indicate String Theory in effect in the Marioverse. THIS is string theory soup. This artifact is completely canon, as Wario is required to gain treasures, and, by story, breaks in and steals them. It is extremely trustworthy, as its bio told to us by a 3rd person omniscient narrator, who knows all. So, when its bio tells us that the universe's secrets can be obtained by drinking the soup, we know the Marioverse abides by string theory, which means erasing all dimensions has a MUCH more impactful meaning.
And what with mathematical-like equations existing in worlds like "Lineland," we can determine--for certain--that The Void was going to destroy all mathematical dimensions. And what about String Theory Soup? Is it reliable? Yes. It's the narrator who talks about String Theory Soup's description; third-person omniscient narrator. That is intensely reliable. And now, to address its name "not being important." The last sentence means everything: "Drink not, lest you learn more than what man was ever meant to know." Whatever this soup houses is huge. The earlier sentence states, "All the secrets of the universe are contained within this soup." So, it's something huge and revealing--a secret that man was never meant to know--about the universe. And the name reveals what that secret is; which is consistent since String Theory relates back to the universe. With that said, we can confidently say the multiverse is 11-D; so why are they 12-D, then? The Overthere is a higher plane of existence, above all worlds, and The Void was going to also erase The Overthere. Not to mention how you said Solaris was gonna take out the whole timeline, well, as I just proved, Dimentio would've taken out all timelines, including the parallel ones.
m.th-cam.com/video/-G5CrFaNkaI/w-d-xo.html
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Also, what do you mean "not the others?" If you're saying the multiverse of Paper Mario is different from the main one, I already debunked that in the comment section of your last video. Even if they didn't do it alone, that still doesn't change the fact that they TOOK TURNS fighting him. Not only that, but you also brought up how you can switch characters during the fight. If you're good enough at the game, you can beat Dimentio with just one character. Meanwhile, Sonic, Shadow, and Silver were fighting Solaris throughout the whole timeline. About that Paper Mario inventory you pulled up, those give him TEMPORARY abilities. And the Pure Hearts don't amp Mario in any way. As they guy debunking you said in his video, they were ONLY used to negate Dimentio's invincibility. Dimentio is also immortal as well. Type 1, to be exact. Aging, disease, stuff like that wouldn't harm him. The only reason Dimentio wasn't fought in 3 points in time was because as I said before, he destroyed all timelines. And you're also bringing up the fact that Solaris was being fought in 3 different time periods. Because Solaris was omnipresent at that point, this is the same as being damaged by 3 people at the same time. "What does blowing out Solaris's flame change?" If you read up on the lore, you would see that this is no ordinary flame.
It's Solaris's conscience. This is why he's called "The Flame of Hope" and "The Flame of Soleanna." It's because that flame is a vessel, or life force of some sorts that he's represented by. Taking away Invulnerability isn't awakening. It just means the opposing force is now able to take damage. When Bowser said "The Pure Hearts have given us power!," he was actually talking about the extra abilities you get with them. Except in the game, they don't jump him. They take turns. And back to my previous point, you can beat him without switching.
Yes, I will admit, the person debunking you was using vague proof on Mario and Paper Mario being the same. But as I said this before, I debunked this. Looks like I'll be putting my proof here again. Read this Google document: docs.google.com/document/d/1fBpaof7rqGeDbHVnio8Cu_ixEN58MlB9ReI7xTnhlA8/edit?usp=drivesdk
Also, you're using Paper Jam to prove your "point," which has been contradicted multiple times by various other Mario games. Not to mention, Paper Jam also takes place in a story book. So what does this prove? Simple. The Mario and Luigi entered a book that they were already featured in. It also supports the ability of acasuality, which is the ability to not be affected by cause and effect. This is proven, as the other Mario would be a paradox. They wouldn't be able to exist together, yet they can. Also, how do you know Miyamoto wasn't talking about the canon versions of Mario? And with your logic, then this would also mean that Ian Flynn would also be part of the author fallacy situation. "Mario's strength accomplishments aren't better than Sonic's" We can debate that. If it was a real black hole, then it would've almost instantly devoured the planet, since black holes are literally stated to absorb light itself. But it didn't. It was slower than that of a black hole. Not only that, but the black hole in Sonic takes a spherical structure. Real black holes don't. Mario in Galaxy survived that black hole. Unlike Mario Party, Mario in Galaxy didn't have enough time to react. And there's also the feat of how Giant Bowser can resist a black hole, and Mario is able to outrun him. And you'd still need to prove they aren't the same Mario rather than using "inconsistencies" as proof. Also, the Marios get stronger depending on where the game takes place. For example, in some games, he's able to drown. But in the New Super Mario Bros series, he can breathe underwater indefinitely. Mario's universe was taken out by a black hole. Guess what. He tanked it. You also have yet to prove that Rosalina actually saved Mario and the Galaxy. Just putting a little note of text up there isn't gonna make anyone believe it, unless of course, they're delusional. And those Grand Stars you were referring to are also stated to destroy the whole universe as well. You STILL have yet to prove that RPG Mario is different from the main one. As I said, no one is gonna believe it unless there is VISIBLE proof. The void wisp is basically the same as power-ups in Mario. Also, that black hole you showed with that little gameplay snippet, is a dwarf black hole. If it was a real one, not only would it have been much bigger, but it would've done MUCH more damage. All Void Sonic is doing is absorbing anything big enough to fit the black hole. That's it. And not only that, but you'd have to prove that Super Sonic can also create a black hole. For this, he'd need some type of grand spatial manipulation abilities. However, one of the only things I would say the guy was wrong about was the Chaos Emeralds not having infinite power, as this is stated and proven that they
to Vanda--thus, he was in between dimensions at the time. Meaning, he was outside of the space-time continuum--which all qualifies for infinite speed.
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/f/fe/Culex_was_in_a_dimensional_rift.png/revision/latest?cb=20171227001424
Those are all speed feats light and above. Just because the game doesn't show him moving that fast doesn't mean anything. It's a little concept known as PERCEPTION. If Infinite was really stronger than Solaris, not only should he be nigh-omnipresent, it he should also be a timeline destroyer. But no, he just controls dimensions. Similar to Dimentio. The Master Emerald is stated to be 14 times stronger than the Chaos Emeralds. Since when was it stated that the Phantom Ruby was stronger? You do know that Hyper is pretty much fearless…. Right? That clip you showed only referred to Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Colors Ultimate. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles. AND on top of that, I even have a screenshot that gives the reason as to why Hyper Sonic is no longer canon. (Link below) "Massively stronger than any Mario bosses" Ahem. I must be missing something. Solaris has already been proven weaker, as well, Dimentio exists. Actually, I didn't even scale him fully. I mainly just did his base form. "Oh, but Time Eater did this!" Culex. Master and controller of time in the Marioverse. "Outscales the strongest version of Mario" This is irrelevant, but didn't Bowser literally one shot the Manga Kamen in the manga, who can write their verse however he sees fit? Sonic freezing time? Super Mario 64: Tick Tock Clock level. Rewinding it? Acasuality. Invincibility? Countered by the Star Rod. Reality Warping? Resistance to it, and also countered by the Star Rod. Immeasurable Speed? Just proved immeasurable speed with the speed feats I showed. Wishing Power? Star Rod, Dream Stone, Star/Royal Stickers. Why does he take fall damage in previous games, but doesn't in others? Like I said, he gets stronger in games that take place after them.
pbs.twimg.com/media/FvVXsjzXgAAhNtK?format=jpg&name=medium
@nrpg0108we here to support one other cuz Sonic fans think with this video they ate when they didnt lol
@@TylerOfChaosYTfor real..😊
27:26 His face hahahahhahahahhaha
Hey, I'm a fan of both Mario and Sonic yet I still think Mario wins. I still got some good points and I sense a bit of bias in some of Tyre's logic. Some things aren't really brought up in these kinds of debates. I'll respectfully decline the L. Still #MarioSweep
fr
@Shadowthehairhoob Mario has immeasurable speed thanks to him being able to move throughout spaces without time and can defeat characters that transcend time, like Dimentio. Sonic has just shown this capability on more occasions, but Mario can keep up
@@ClassicSonictheRemixerhe can keep up but he can't outrun him
I think Sonic will win in a fight against mario and because I can scale sonic to boundless in base form and I can scale mario to at least high multiversal thats my opinion.
"You goofy" ☠️
This is a pretty dumb debate, it’s putting a hedgehog who can surpass the speed of light and defeat gods versus a basic dude like what💀
Y'all can debate all day on who would win, it don't really matter to me, but we all know what would determine the winner: plot. But I will say, Sonic has taken some pretty hilariously embarrassing Ls: pretty much got 1-shotted by Shadow in that one late episode of Sonic X (hell Tails lasted longer), Mephiles proved how easy takin' him out could be, the beatdown he took at the beginning of Forces & if people wanna bring up Archie Sonic, we can't do so.......without bringin' up possibly the most hilarious L he's ever taken: the "fight" with King Shadow. Mans knocked him out before his cape even hit the floor. Mario's taken Ls too, I seen 'em, but I see HIS bein' brought up more than Sonic's
Bruh Sonic Ls are always bought up. You don't constantly hear the motorbug argument?
Can't forget about his L in sonic prime
The begging of super Mario Odyssey, Mario in smash getting beat up?????
Finally Sonic is in the lead
If sonic 3 wasn’t canon then how is knuckles here
I think they think the experience is Sonic 3, then Sonic and knuckles and not Sonic 3 and knuckles. But that's still dumb,lol
Mario fanboys just can’t think straight, Lmao
@@A_literal_supernovaof course they can’t they on that Italian meat
Death Battle Bowser vs Eggman
Also Roger Craig smith(Sonic’s voice actor) confirmed Sonic would beat Mario in a fight.
Well its obvious he would think that hes the actor of sonic.
@@_unfairness_2187he also said if he was Charles Martinet(Mario’s voice actor) he’d have to say Mario would win
@@JalenJennings-it4xd so whoever he would voice would win
There's a thing nintendo does with Mario called Game mechanics which are there only to keep the Game more interesting, take them Out to see the actual truth, that's why You have to take out Mario's Game mechanics limits to SEE an actual fight, this is not platforming
Do the same thing with sonic and mario loses
L
To be honest, even as a sonic fan ty was acting kinda bias.
true
He got some of Mario’s facts backwards but he’s right regardless
He’s still right. But yeah he is a LIL bias
@@gamercentral2417The other guy was biased against Sonic.
@@NebulaSon He didn't even say things like "Mario wins no difficulty". He said Mario wins with EXTREME difficulty. This means if Mario plays his cards right he can beat him but Sonic can also win as well. It's not like how Ty said that Sonic wins no difficulty.
Immediate(Start of game) fight: Mario
No limits: Sonic
No limits mario is overkill for sonic
SpongeBob could be sonic
Funny that he read your comment in chat, but in the interrupts because the outro 😂
i dont see how mario vs sonic is an argument when game sonic has in universe context and feats that put him on outerversal
Mario has outerversal scans
@ if we are using those scans for mario then we are allowed full SMT scaling for sonic, at which hes high outerversal in base
when i saw the thumbnail, i almost got mad because i'm sick and tired of this "sonic vs mario" bullsh*t that happened every year no matter where i go. all i wanted people to do is make mario and sonic friends like that youtuber "MSKFan15 (Mario Sonic Kirby Fan 15)" did. I tried ignore the video but my curiosity forced me to watch. when i decided to watch it, i frustratingly said "Alright fine, i'll watch it! but you owe me one". don't get me wrong, i like both of these characters, but sometimes i feel like mario still needs somemore praise and popularity. i'm not trying to offend people who like sonic more them mario, i'm trying to remind you about how i feel about mario vs sonic videos always ending with mario losing. hopefully people will understand what i'm saying.
Nah man you have every right to feel that way the thumbnail pissed me off too ngl.
Maybe because Mario lose
Thumbnail was right
"mario still needs some more praise and popularity"? no offense, but mario is already the most recognized video game character on earth, pretty sure he won't need extra attention....
@@the_magma_human33 he intends in power scaling
You know what? Screw who wins in a fight. Who do you think would win in a dance battle?
Obv sonic, you see man breakdancing?
@@Sploochey Mario literally has a dancing game.
@@Sploochey it's DDR Mario mix
@CuteRedPanda64 so what? Just because you have a game dedicated to dancing doesn't mean you're good at dancing.
@@Sploochey did you even look it up?
Uh actually the true winner is Walugi 🤓
Most people say hyper isn't cannon
All ima say is
Ice flower
Get one lucky hit and its over
Bruh it won’t kill sonic plus he’s fast enough to dodge them anyways. Sonic slams your butthurt excuses
@@CMN9486 it doesnt have to
Just pick him up and throw him into the ocean
And like I said
One LUCKY shot in and its over
I didn't say it was guaranted
@@arturliviu sonic can run out of the water. Sonic slams 9/10 of the times
@@CMN9486 Sonic canonically can't swim m8...
the ice generated breaks after a few seconds, so it wouldn't matter too much
8:07 I agree with this.
We can’t just blindly accept what the author says.
Logic still exists no matter who is speaking.
If it helps support something that already exists, then sure.
But if it doesn’t make sense or if it’s a direct contradiction, then we can’t accept their words.
Not to mention, authors don’t have perfect memory. And when they give their characters abilities, they aren’t a math and science genius who realize how incredible those abilities are.
0:23 yo what is this kid talking about 🧢
2:58 Don't you just hate it when Twitch behaves inappropriately? Cause I sure do.
Hey nard did you know that tys response got debunked 3 times
So nard you might need to take the L
@@brendaflowers1719liking your own comments
Ive played both mario and sonic games. The debunks are just mario fanboys coping.
@@Shitendo376 yeah and the debunks from sonic fanboy are just them coping even worse
@@brendaflowers1719 most mario debunks are less facts and more emotion
I literally left a massive debunk in his comment section.
Honestly, i think sonic would win or it would be a tie, but if you wanna determine who would win you should actually make your own scaling video instead of just reacting to someone
They tie only by narrative mario stomps realisticaly
@@mynameisntimportant1374 okay that's your opinion
@@zenith-gg9tl Mario may not seem like much at first glance but he is insanely strong in basd form alone if you do enough redearch on the guy m8.
@@david_cool427YT i do research
I know he's very strong
I just think sonic would win, and if you cant accept that, then leave me alone
Nice that you went over this lmao
Go watch Josiah the stickman about mario vs sonic
Part 3?🤔
There is a video with when the TH-camr talks about Mario versus Sonic
And I like your videos
So nard where's part 3
Fine,Mario fans can take the L just once,but that's still doesn't change the fact that sonic games are mid and Mario is the king of gaming bro
Imo both Tye and Josiah downplayed Sonic. Here is a whole paragraph of Sonic’s Powerscale:
Game Sonic: In order to scale Sonic’s strongest feats, we need to look at one character, and his name is Solaris. Solaris’ goal was to destroy ALL timelines (in the context of the game timeline means universe). Ian Flynn, head writer at Sega, said that there are an infinite number of multiverses in Sonic. Since Solaris was going to destroy all universes, and there are a infinite number of them, this means that Solaris scales to hyperversal, meaning at this time Super Sonic is above Hyperversal. A decade later, Sega released the game, Sonic Forces, with the next big villain, Infinite. Although Infinite has no feats to prove he is stronger than Solaris, he is stated to BE stronger than Solaris, and at the time the strongest Sonic villain. Head of Sega Izuka, said that the next Sonic villain will always be stronger than the last (Exceptions: Deadly Six and Nega Wisp Armor), he also said, along side the head writers of Sega at the time, that Infinite IS the strongest villain. We also can use evidence from the comics to back up our answer. In the IDW Comics (which are canon), Eggman states that the Phantom Ruby, Infinites power source, is far superior to the Master Emerald. Since the all 7 Chaos Emeralds are weaker than the Master Emerald, and the Super Sonic beat Solaris, this means that Infinite should be greater than Solaris, and he scales to greater than Hyperversal (People say that the generator to power Infinite was destroyed, weakening him in the process, but it’s stated that the back up generator restored that power before he fought Sonic). In Sonic’s 3rd fight with Infinite, and his 2nd fight with him, he SLAMMED him in base form, making Sonic stronger than Infinite, and at base form Hyperversal.
In Sonic Frontiers, Sonic faces The Titans, The Titans are far stronger than base Sonic, causing him to need the help of the Chaos Emeralds, this places each Titan WAY above Hyperversal. Since Sonic needed the help of Sage to defeat The End in the final fight, it means The End is WAY above The Titans, and since Super Sonic 2 in The Final Horizan, DOGGED The End, and even Cyber Sonic ONE SHOTTED HIM.
(Sonic form powerscaling: Base < Super < Super 2 < Cyber < Hyper)
Hyper Sonic is Sonic’s strongest form, being 49 times stronger than Cyber Sonic, which is already WAY above base Sonic.
I don’t agree with the “cyber sonic > super sonic” cuz it’s basically super sonic but cyber energy and that doesn’t change anything
@@OPTIMUSPRIMETHEGOAT-z6gIt does! Cyber Sonic defeats The End in one shot, while Super Sonic needed Sage’s help to beat him.
I wanna point out that Sonic didn't beat Solaris, he only weakend him
@@CuteRedPanda64 That still means his attacks scale to outerversal, plus, The End, and The Titans, are still stronger.
@@TTG-37 that would also mean the same thing to Mario since Dimentio was going to wipe out ALL of the Mario universe and Mario beat him in base.
Also the first fight with infinite, Sonic got jumped.
Second fight, Sonic still lost.
Third fight Sonic won with the help of the rookie (Us) despite the rookie not having any powers.
I thought this was the same video for a second 🗿
🗿
Clearly, Nard has never heard of dream team (dream stone has the power of dreams which are immeasurable universes) and Mario party 5( Mario can catch up to bowser who destroys inf dreams 1 by 1. Also, Mario can rewind time when he's defeated against super sonic plus bottomless gloves, Mario can use the magnet mushroom to just take away the emeralds when sonic summons them and then blitz him. Mario also has a broom to wipe existence. It's a shame Mario gets downplayed. I haven't even brought paper Mario in.
How would a magnet mushroom take the emeralds? Is it not actually magnetism?
@@danviferahr1426 I meant when he summons the emeralds. Not when he actually turns super sonic. And, sort of. It sucks in all items instead of just metal.
@@sansationalbadtimes2 ah, that makes sense
Rpg mario ≠ mainline mario ≠ paper mario
But mainline is enough for sonic
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Mario doesn't even have official canon
"Paper Mario and Mario are not canon" Luigi reconnecting with himself in Mario galaxy and being able to interact with him as if nothing had happened. Even in Mario party Bowser mentions that Bowsitos works with him as his "henchman" seriously friend Nintendo had already done this before and now they make a fuss over 2 Mario's. and Saying that Super Mario RPG 2 is Paper Mario only with the Name changed due to the Copyright between Square and Nintendo at that time lol.
Mario still wins. Stop lying
Sonic could pick up mario and run with him and he would disintegrate due to the speed humans can handle
More like stop crying like a baby and get used to it Mario fan boy
@@scooby_doobiesyou have a GoAnimate pfp stop lying.
@@ZackSeyong mario could Dodge the grabs.
@@NormTheUser using pfps to make an insult for saying an opinon makes you look like a baby
The kid also didn't realise that Ty sayed no supers,no weapons and no power ups💀💀
And ty brought them up so 😐
@@brendaflowers1719didn't Mario fans do that first?
Proof that Mario still wins: th-cam.com/video/qdRVtIbFBwI/w-d-xo.html
That got debunked
@@zenith-gg9tl Wait really?
@@liamgaming6752 yeah th-cam.com/video/tynY0HTuElc/w-d-xo.html
@@zenith-gg9tlIt doesn’t matter there are other TH-camrs trying to explain who really wins
But aren't Sonic and Mario friends.
Supernardful you are being bias and it shows bad lol
like you aren't bias yourself?
@the_magma_human499 If u do research like myself you would know who really wins
@@TTVJOJO41323 Exactly like thede people out here really thinking that Mario is weak and all just cuz his games aren't portrayed in some cringey anime style with loud music lol
@@TTVJOJO41323 title of winner goes to sonic, i'd know from researching mario and sonic
@the_magma_human33 if u do PROPER research then Mario does wins
27:18 listen in this house hold hyper is canon and if you don’t believe that then respectfully get out of my house
If we are talking base v base, sonic wins.
The inconsistancy around paper jam absolutely sucks. A POKEY has the sticker star crown. You know, something that made a whole (worst) game? THE STICKER STAR CROWN. HOW TF DID A POKEY GET THE STICKER STAR CROWN???
SpongeBob is beating Sonic in a fight
Most probable
@@EmilianoCharlo-xp2ny oh my God I found someone with the same name as me!?
@@OneTpot-r4d you are called emiliano too?
Cool
He need water and sonic hate water so no
It’s not that hyper isn’t canon. It’s that most of the time it’s unavailable. Also we might be using sonic&knuckles instead of 3&knuckles. I still may think Sonic may take the w, but it’s kinda a fair fight since we talking about Mario with wario as a star child survive the dimension collapsing. Mario is debatably as durable than Sonic with that. Again… I still think Sonic may get the w, but Mario has the retry clock to restart the entire fight. Lastly, Mario has fought dream bowser. And dreams in Mario are basically their own universe. So even though Sonic may win, Mario might put a decent fight.
bro
💀
What is it?
I do love Mario and Sonic but Sonic wins easily.
Im always gonna be a speed demon till the day I die, I don’t care💨⚡️
As a mario fan sonic slams, sonics speed is too much for mario
Look guys! They’re coping! The chat is coping!
Blud in denial
@@mynameisntimportant1374aren’t you the one denial saying that I’m in denial?
@@ThatOneEpicMemeLord no but you surely are
im convinced that kid who made the mario video made that video because of death battle.
Death battle got mario and sonic below star level
Joshua has both at multiversal and in the 2011 death battle sonic won check your info thanks
Buddy im talking about the death battle from four years ago.@@mynameisntimportant1374
Well if they fight in base form sonic gets stomp but super and hyper yeah thats a diffrent story
This dude Tyre trying to say that he is not biased when he is literally downplaying Mario and not even giving him an actual research, and I find it not fair that Sega gives Sonic all these transformations but Nintendo doesn’t for Mario and Kirby
They don't need new transformations they are already powerful in base
@@TheZuinar I know but not only it would be cool but it would get people to stop downplaying Mario and maybe Kirby
@@1ario15 people downplaying a character is mostly due to them fearing their fav character would lose they don't try to be open minded and know why people think that way they just wanna meatride their fav and call anyone an idiot for having a different take
@@TheZuinar well I don’t like it 😡
@@1ario15well womp womp
Fair fight?
so Mario isn’t allowed to:
Use Items
Have Items
Move
Talk
Blink
Yell for help
Punch
Kick
Block
Duck
Jump
Attack
Hide
Run
Use Hammer
Change perspectives
Swim
Think
Eat
Drink
Breathe
And Give up
Sonic is allowed to use all of his forms, friends unlimited rings
I love both the Super Mario games and Sonic games but Sonic is winning, I’m sorry but I gotta be real here
W bro
Sonic destroys Mario
he combines all the best mario forms from different dimensions and still only need archie sonic it’s not close
While I like the fact that they brought up that hyper sonic isn’t canon
Technically, neither is white tanookie, and it’s not like it’s something Mario can just grab either
Mario’s power ups come from blocks and can be used by anyone. Meaning hypothetically if Mario actually went to grab the white tanooki, sonic could just steal it.
That is if it were canon,
Which it’s not.
It’s a game mechanic for people who can’t get through a level, meaning we’d have to compare base Mario to super sonic, and FP sonic(electricity mode in frontiers)
Let’s see, Mario beats sonic in strength. But that’s really about it
Sonic can move through stopped time, putting him way above Mario speed
While mario can be taken off guard
Sonic cannot be, In canon his allergies equate to how much danger he’s in.
If mario is attacking him, Sonic will get the sniffles and realize that he’s gonna get attacked
Let’s go over durability
Mario was able to survive a blackhole in mario galaxy, and possibly more.
Sonic could do the same but needed the wisps assistance, So durability does go to mario
Reaction speed, Goes to sonic
I’m sorry, but if you really think mario can see and process faster than sonic, you’re wrong. And here’s why
Sonic could react to attacks from time eater, Solaris and infinite
Infinite was stated to be somewhat faster than sonic.
But here’s the kicker
Sonic might beat mario in strength too
Sonics constantly growing, As I can tell.
A certain feat from one of his fantasy book games actually might give sonic the win
Eraser Djinn was threatening to destroy multiple multiverses(The storybooks all contain different multiverses) He put himself above that,
Sonic with three world rings, could beat that.
But there’s also one last thing I’d like to mention
Even though super sonic can be slowed down, Hes completely invulnerable. Making it impossible for Mario to hurt super sonic, even with every powerup he gets
Though one issue, sonics personality.
He wouldn’t take mario seriously obviously, He’s an overweight plumber. So mario could sneak sonic with something fatal and kill him in base.
Mario unlike Sonic constantly takes any threat seriously, And we know Sonic even in a life or death scenario won’t take a fight serious.
It comes down to whether sonic feels as though Mario’s a threat, or Mario feels as though sonics a threat.
Sonic has been caught off before
In Sonic Lost World he didn’t dodge Zomnom’s sandwich (twice I might add)
In Sonic Unleashed he’s been caught off guard by Eggman and didn’t react fast enough to get out of his trap. (In Super form I might add)
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official true but
Both of those times, sonic had the high ground against both of his opponents
He could’ve easily beat Zomom, and he could’ve beat Eggman in super form
Like I said though, it’s not impossible to catch sonic off guard, he’s got a massive ego
@@glitchtherabbit9631narratively Mario has a lot going for hin compared to sonic. (In my opinion)
Sonic died from a laser and needed to be brought back with the dragon- i mean chaos emeralds (i'm not sorry for making the joke)
While mario got caught off guard and eaten and 1 hp left and won a stronger version of bowletta.
Or sonic forces he struggled with infinite because he was faster then him.
Bowser tore through time and space to go to the past and still lost to yoshi and baby mario.
Not saying Mario IS stronger then sonic but mario in narative is more impressive then sonic
@@TCBlueFire true, but sonic did fight Erasor djinn in a weakened base form(at the time, Erasor Djinn absorbs like 101 universes.) and beat him pretty easily, I’d say that’s somewhat impressive
@@glitchtherabbit9631 i could be wrong but wasn't it in a story book?
Bro watching a tyrecordslol vid. Of course sonic wins