ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2024
- Listen… We all make mistakes 😅 Let’s compare the SN76489 PSG to the Yamaha YM2413 OPLL.
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Original SMS Episode - • 16-bit arcade hits on ...
SMS FM Add-On - etim.net.au/smsfm/smsfm.html
FM Sound Unit and Compatible Games List - segaretro.org/FM_Sound_Unit
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00:00 Introduction
00:31 Hardware Overview
02:01 SN76489 Programmable Sound Generator
03:38 YM2413 OPLL FM
05:39 Outrun
10:28 Double Dragon
16:28 Rampage
18:34 Shinobi
20:55 Final Thoughts - เกม
No games used FM and PSG at the same time because the Mark III didn’t support mixing the two outputs together, it was either-or. Furthermore, most games shared data between the PSG and FM soundtracks, presumably just to save ROM space, so it’s not unusual to see the FM soundtrack using 3 tone channels (sometimes doubling one or more channels to make a reverb effect).
The Mark III and FM Unit don't, but the Mark IV (with its integral YM2413 chip) does play both at the same time. The MkIV is a 100% genuine Master System too.
Since the japanese Master System could mix the two sound chips, its bios music (areangement of the space harrier stage theme) actually does use both sound chips simultaniously. This is the only track I know of, that uses this feature.
It’s weird that the mixing isn’t more common because listening to those tracks it feels really obvious the FM soundtracks were composed to accompany the PSG, not replace it. This might be why they sound lazy: they’re actually a bunch of supporting instruments.
Wonderboy III plays both FM and PSG at the same time on a Mark III Master System.
@@Svartadragon The Mark III's hardware _can't_ play both FM and PSG audio at the same time, it has to switch between either one or the other; WBIII's simultaneous FM/PSG audio was designed to work with the Mark IV, even though it was never released for that version of the Master System.
PSG forever! Those bright harmonised square waves are just super nostalgic for me, the cut down YM sounds like it was just ported across and just sounds a bit weak to me most of the time, clearly not well supported
I love the audio visualisation with the channels shown separately. Quite clever.
To see more of that, search the title of the video game music plus oscilloscope. For more fun look up "deconstruction"! These let you hear and "see" so much of the music and it's incredible!
Issue with FM and PSG at the same time was only the japanese console had the FM unit and it didnt do well in japan, even tho loads of games that didn't get a release in japan had a FM music track odd that. Even tho the FM is better i am so used to the PSG that FM just sounds wrong lol.
PSG+FM that is the way it should have been. Sadly, even if the FM instruments are technically more complex i still prefer the original PSG sound, the FM soundtracks sounds as if they are lacking or missing instrumentation, while the PSG soundtrack sounds like is doing the best it can with its limitations.
In the arcades those funky FM SFX could sound boomy/bassy funneled into the resonance of a wooden cabinet. Obviously not something that translates to the home as well!
Awesome video! I love the comparison between the different synthesis emulation styles. Interesting that they used the YM2413. I could have sworn that was the “budget keyboard” version of the YM3812, and that the sega genesis used the YM2612, which is a 4-op FM synth chip (a bit different than the 2-op synthesis of the YM3812 and YM2413). I had to research these a bunch for a video series on developing for these chips. Looks like the YM2413 was only in the Japanese master system. Anyway, I love watching your videos, keep up the great work!
I prefer the original PFG music and sounds, has that SMS nostalgic vibe. You missed Rastan one of my favorites
It’s hard to keep up and correct on every piece of hardware, even when running it on the mister!😅
Thanks for the update, my 1st pick is psg+fm together of course with the fm second as I’m not too fussed about sound effects.👍
I prefer PSG over FM save for a few tracks that sound much better on YS in FM than in PSG.
I also prefer FM music on Phantasy Star
No games used FM and PSG at the same time because the Mark III didn’t support mixing the two outputs together, however the Japanese Master System and the FM mods for the International units do! And there are Rom Hacks for Master System like the one for Sonic 1 on the Master System and Dynamite Dux that do!
This is not true. Some games used the PSG for sound effects or to play samples even when the FM extension is present. Like, i.e.: "Alex Kidd - The Lost Stars" and "Tennis Ace".
@@fr_schmidlinDid the PSG sound effects take turns with the FM music, as in, did the latter mute itself to switch banks temporarily?
@@fr_schmidlin This was confirmed by redhotsonic.
@@ZombieRyushu Please notice that I'm not saying that the Mark III supports it.
I'm saying that there are games that used the PSG and FM at the same time, because the Japanese SMS supported it. The "no games used" statement is what was wrong.
Thank you for the Clarification.
I wasn't offended by your mistake. It's not like I would have known better myself but I appreciate you making the correction and another video. Also, it's not like the RB magnet would leave my fridge because of a tiny mistake like this. 😄
One thing I've noticed about the use of the TI chip is too many games blasted those high notes.
The SEGA BIOS for the Master System does have both PSG and FM running at the same time.
The Double Dragon soundtrack is better on FM. Damn, that is some great stuff. I do wish Sega made it so you could have PSG+FM at the same time though, that would've been a treat and a half.
On Sonic 1 for the SMS, there is an FM mod that uses FM for the music and PSG for the sound effects. So it can be done.
It wasn't a simple matter of changing a byte or something similar to do that BTW. It was a feat of programming by the mod's developer.
Japanese sms had fm sound. you can mod western ones with it as well.
You can get a gbs c for like 40 bucks to solve your input output issues using og hardware.
Hope you didn't get too much static for using emulation during your video capture/editing processes. People can be fairly pragmatic about this issue.
I do try to show at least a little of the real hardware running on a CRT whenever possible, but it's hard to do it properly with my camera. It's just so much more convenient to capture crisp 1080P scaled HDMI coming out of the MiSTer. No one has given me a hard time about it, thankfully!
Admittedly I am a SMS fanboy as it was my first system after the 2600 -- and while I know the PSG hardware is limited and inferior to the NES's, I always felt that the actual musicianship on SMS games was so much better, especially on the arcade ports (Space Harrier, in particular). I still have my original SMS from when I was a kid, but I finally got the FM modchip a few months ago and I'll mod a new one once I acquire one.
Imagine if SEGA would have included the Yamah chip to begin with! I think the TI sound chip sometimes made the SMS seem cheap. OK then imagine SEGA having better lawyers to stand up against Nintendo... We'd be living in a different world! 😉
I had a master system 2 as a kid but I always thought the OG MasterSystem DID have FM sound....
Only in Japan
It was also integrated into the Pal versions of the console. My Mastersystem in germany had the FM chip for sure.
Outrun FM vs PSG do not have the same pitch. It sounds terrible together, unless you are tone-deaf.
The Japanese Master System DOES have FM.
2:47 What game is that from?
Double Dragon
@@flandrble Thank you.
Saying that the SMS does't have FM sound and demanding only the SN76489 to be used is kinda like saying that the PC didn't have FM sound, so only the PC-Speaker should be used...
Or stating that the NES/SNES should only be used without any of the enhancement chips...
It would be like saying that only if the FM synth was a significant improvement over the psg in the polyphony and quality of the sound, like in the other examples you gave.
But it isn't that, at all.
@@InternetVegetable8541 No doubt the FM synth was a huge improvement over the PSG. It adds 9 new channels, so it's 4 times the original polyphony, and with much more complex instruments.
The same OPLL soundchip was also used on MSX computers, resulting in some of the best FM soundtracks ever made.
Tip: Search the "Best Yamaha OPL FM Chiptunes" here on TH-cam, and listen to the MSX & OPLL entries listed there.
No matter we talk about gaming systems or DX7/whatever, I can’t avoid hating FM synthesis with all my heart.