the reveal of Sutekh was fantastic, and building up referencing The Trickster (who got a couple of nods during Ten's run but was a prominent villain in Sarah Jane's spinoff - in an episode Ten appeared him, the Trickster was mentioned as being part of the Pantheon of Discord - and Sutekh first appeared when she was traveling with the Fourth Doctor), but the Toymaker and the Maestro we already knew about, the Mara is another Classic pull, the Threefold Deity of Malice, Mischief and Mayhem may be a reference to the Gods of Ragnarok from The Greatest Show in the Galaxy serial, and then we've got a few new names to add to the list RTD might've been cooking up the Pantheon as a way to tie all these beings together for a while
Wild Blue Yonder. That was the first sign of infection. The 4th Doctor trapped Sutekh in a time corridor and sent him to the far future. Maybe he sent him to the edge of the universe. Where he had been… waiting.
@@Thewoodenworkbench I’m not sure it was the salt, because the TARDIS made the sound as soon as it crashed there. So I think Sutekh latched onto it as soon as it arrived. Maybe the salt allowed him to slowly manifest into that dimension. Who really knows? Timey-wimey
@@playlistb3795some of it harkens back to the Doctor's identity but apart from mentioning it from time to time and making the foundling connection with Ruby, RTD won't explore much else about that. We have to remember the fact that Division was responsible for the Flux because of the threat the Doctor posed by running away, but the Flux and Division itself don't necessarily have anything to do with the Timeless Child mystery and the part of that mystery RTD is interested in exploring is the Foundling and how that connects the Doctor to Ruby. Which is why I think there’s a deeper connection between them, like she is the Doctor's daughter and in turn, Susan's mother. Either that or she might be Jenny's daughter and if she is, then who knows, she might also be Susan, hidden by the chameleon arch and if that's the case, then maybe her journey with this Doctor ends with her going back in time to meet and travel with, Hartnell's Doctor. That seems to line up with what RTD is trying to do
Carla calling it 'the Beast' feels a little bit like meta foreshadowing, as the Beast from Ten's first series was voiced by Gabriel Woolf, who played Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars in 1975 and reprises the role here
When the toymaker shuddered and said he wouldnt challenge someone i was like..whos the one person the toymaker could be scared of and my brain went "sutekh" and damn!!!!
As a fan, my earliest memory, the episode that hooked me into "Doctor Who" back in the 70's, was “Pyramids of Mars“ with Tom Baker's 4th Doctor. OMG!!! My first villain, Sutekh, has returned.
@@jwsel I wouldn't worry too much about that friend, well not at that moment at least the original season trailer has Mel and The Doctor driving away from Sutek's gift on a motorbike... but who knows what happens after that... hopeful she comes out alive at the end love us some Mel in this house!
Not yet ! I guess Harbinger and Susan are the equivalent of the mummies. I went back to watch the Pyramids of Mars and he posessed a couple of people including the doctor. I don’t remember it as I was very young when it was broadcast. I was actually enthralled with it. I remember I loved Tom Baker and he changed into Peter Davison when I was 12. I was gutted.
Yeah, we've had multiple Doctors, including this one, saying that they're a parent. Ten said he lost them. Eleven came out with a cot, said it was his, but also hesitated presumably because he wasn't the only baby that slept in it. So, did the Doctor raise his children before he's had a chance to create them? The plot thickens like a custard.
I feel like the seeming malevolence of Mrs. Flood is another red herring. We didn't see her again in the episode, so she wasn't a harbinger, and while the line delivery seemed sinister, she could be an ally of the doctor.
I think she’s actually Susan ( we only know her as Mrs Flood) The Doctors granddaughter. Looks like Harbinger and Susan Triad are the ‘mummies’ from the original Dr Who story in 1975. The doctor trapped him in a time loop.
@@tycol322 Yup, Jenny. I'm really, really, hoping that we learn that Jenny had a daughter and named her Susan, in future series. I think there are some fun ways to play with the fact that Jenny - as a clone of the Doctor - would be closer to his other universe genetics.
Father, Mother, Other - Death, Life, and Time - Sutek, (Ruby's Mother), and The Timeless Child. In the expanded universe "The Other" is a being that is part of the history of the Time Lords - Rassilon, Omega, and The Other were listed as the 3 founders of the Time Lords. Its been hinted even before the Timeless Child was mention that some how The Doctor and The Other were some how related (literally).
Thinking about the fact that Church on Ruby Road & 73 Yards were also modern time period versions of Susan. Even if 73 Yards basically didn't happen there are still TWO Susans in the same time period and moment alongside Susan Triad. So alongside Susan Triad there was still the hippie lady from the Club and the hiker in Whales.
It may or not be anything but you know how they mention the Camera is 66.7 metres away from the Church? Do you know what you'd get if you convert that into yards? 🤔
Completely fantastic episode, its conclusion is incredible. I think Harbinger and Susan Triad are both the ‘mummies’ that are the main characters human form, from the 1975 episodes, Pyramids Of Mars. Think Mrs Flood is the Doctors granddaughter. She knows what a Tardis is and she encouraged Ruby to enter it in the Christmas episode.
Just mentioning a thing that has been on my mind since Christmas. While we assume, and it would make sense that the woman dropping baby Ruby off is her mother, we actually don't know that.
I was thinking the same thing. Like maybe this entity is actually the god of time, because she’s able to control the memories and even the replaying of the memory on the videotape is changed when she’s there. And then she turns around and points at, not the doctor, but Sutekh, who’s attached to the tardis. Perhaps she grabbed this random child and put it here, knowing that the doctor would become involved with the adult Ruby, so that he or she could bring the doctor back to where Sutekh enters the universe again.
It just hit me, maybe Hartnell's Doctor DID meet their child, and possibly raised them, but it's a future incarnation of the Doctor that actually fathers the child. David Tennant said "I've been a father before." That's different from "I've had children before." But I dunno, I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around this "not yet" statement. It's confused me lol
@@TheLibrarianOG1 It's interesting because it doesn't really contradict the Classic Series. What it doesn't gel well with is what RTD himself wrote earlier. (Does "the Doctor lies" apply here?)
That was my thought - either he raised his kids but they came from the future, or Susan was sent to the Doctor as a child and he raised his grandchild but acted liked a father to her.
I think the Tennant line, which is again reiterated upon River's identity reveal makes it a plot hole, because I think RTD is trying to rewrite Susan's origin and somehow tie it to Ruby's true identity. He did say, the reveal of her parentage is something akin to River's own reveal, so yeah, I think that's what they are trying to do. Tie it to Susan and the Doctor and Ruby herself, give them all an origin of sorts and some tangible family and roots without having to dig into where the Doctor actually came from.
I have never watched classic who, but I felt actual terror this episode because the look the Doctor had when it was revealed as Sutekh told me this is something he's been afraid of coming back
Yeah, I was thinking Ruby has something to do with time. So the cloaked figure might be the god of time, and she turns and points to Sutekh on the Tardis-probably trying to stop him from destroying everything.
That, plus the space between episodes feels really empty. We needed more downtime between the Doctor and Ruby. It works without that, but it's not very graceful as is.
Great reaction as always! This episode left so many questions unanswered but I am so ready for the answers next week! Also, I need the Mrs Flood reveal STAT.
It's cool they're getting into the Doctor Who versions of Egyptian mythology again! I'm now thinking that when the Doctor referenced "the pantheon" regarding the Celestials, it was really foreshadowing for the reintroduction of other Osirans. I wonder if Mrs. Flood is Nephthys? She is, after all, Sutekh's wife in the official Doctor Who novels, and she's the guardian of the dead in Egyptian mythology. And then Ruby's mom might be Tefnut, who hasn't yet appeared in Doctor Who, but since the Osirans are based on Greek mythology, Tefnut was Sutekh's grandmother and *the goddess of rain and moist air* (which is as close to winter/snow as you'll find in a desert culture).
@@darkphoenix6807 Oooh, maybe she is, and maybe she's also Ruby's mother! When she told Ruby, "Still hoping for that growth spurt?" it was played off like a jab at her height, but... what if she meant something like "still waiting to come into your Osiran abilities?"
The Second Doctor talked about having a family in the past tense while comforting Victoria over the loss of her father in "The Tomb of the Cybermen". After all the Susan teasing, I was really hoping Carole Ann Ford, who turned 83 today, would get to reprise the Doctor's granddaughter on TV again.
I don't have nearly enough Classic Who knowledge to have seen this coming like this, it was nice to be surprised completely once in a while. I love Who touching on even more full-on SUPERNATURAL (even if these gods aren't what we think of as gods, just so far beyond our plane of existence).
I've been saying that each episode has been better than the prior one (except Space Babies wasn't better than Church on Ruby Road,) and this episode...THIS Episode was masterful. Up until they go to Mel with the hand thing, that entire first part was incredible. But even then, they finally brought in all the things people have been wondering about this season. Susan. Flood. Tardis noise. Is Susan HIS Susan. Ruby's Mom. They also did great fan service with Rose and Mel and Kate and UNIT in general. But I did NOT see Sutekh as being The One Who Waits. Wow! Can hardly wait for the finale...although yeah they needed MORE episodes this season than we got, but still...THIS is how ya do it!
I have a theory/spoiler . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. .. #spoiler There was a character named Ibrahim that was a follower of Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars. COL Ibrahim didn't salute the TARDIS/Doctor - he saluted SUTEKH! ... also when everyone else flinched during the Time Window explosion he stayed stoic.
I noticed that and I also noticed that The Doctor mentions timelords can change to hide themselves away and then right as Mrs Flood shows up she mentions being tired of hiding herself away. Quite the coincidence
I think the second regeneration wasn't a biregeneration, but the collision of the comic universe. It's why a comic regeneration face appeared and why sutekh looks like his comic incarnation and why this doctor doesn't remember his family, but Tennet does.
Susan was left on earth in the first doctor series Dalek Invasion of Earth. It occurred in 2008, in a timeline that no longer exists because of Dalek history rewritten by Genesis of the Daleks (and likely the start of the Time War). The Daleks were buried delaying their rise by centuries. Susan though as a Timelord is unaffected by timeline changes. The world would have changed around her.
Dalek Caan called the Doctor the "Threefold Man" and the woman in unit mentioned the Threefold Deity....my personal headcanon, is they are one and the same..Timeless Child, Doctor, Valeyard
I believe the explanation on the doctors family is really simple. He's talking in the moment. He has a grandaughter who is alive in the now but not kids who live in the furrow. She traveled with him when they didn't and she was left in the past ( compared to them for sure) so she exists out of order. Before her parents exist thanks to time travel
I think when they said the mother, the father and the other, it was their version of a trinity, the mother, the father and the other is Suteche. Part of me thinks that Ruby is the opposite of Sutech because, for there being a christmas song being put in Ruby, seems odd for someone or something, related, to be connected with something so hopeful.
I share your confusion about the Doctor's implying that he hadn't had kids yet - Cause, well, RTD1 era established that the Doctor was already a dad (he literally tells Donna "I've been a father before"). The Moffat era then reiterated this, with 12 having "dad skills". And even this season, we've had mentions of him being a father ("dad to dad" was an entire plot point in Boom), so, that was a bit odd imo.
I just took it as meaning that while he has children he is currently in 2024 which could be before his children were born but Susan could still exist if she too had travelled back to a point before her own birth.
@simonorourke4465 that was my thought too. The 1st Doctor had a kid some time after 2024 and later went back in time to 1963 with just his granddaughter. He's had kids at some point in his past, but they also won't exist for a couple more centuries or however long.
In the original pilot for Doctor Who before it was reshot, Susan told Ian and Barbara that she was born in the 49th Century. This could be a reference to that.
I thought that kid harbinger appeared for every Pantheon member but they each have their own individual harbingers that they send before they come. Susan was a projection of Sutekh (old who villain from Tom Baker and Sylvester Mcoy eras), it’s a Pantheon being, the one who waits, he’s their aspect of death because they’ve all took aspects from our reality they liked, well this one saw death and said give me some of that. The Doctor is the time lord who trapped him so that’s why all of these gods hate the Doctor. He somehow attached himself to the Tardis and “Susan” has been appearing in all of these places because they’ve been dragging Sutekh around attached to the Tardis. It’s had nothing to do with granddaughter Susan but I do think that’s a storyline that’s going to pay off down the line. We did learn that Susan is actually the Doctors blood relative but he’s never mentioned her mother or met her, yet. I thought Susan was a human he took out of her timeline in his travels and because he looked so old back then, he just said she was his grandchild but she actually is, that story has to pay off somewhere because she’s never really explained throughout the entire run, she’s just with him and no one says hey old man where did you get this young woman. We know the Doctor has a daughter, a cloned being made from his genetic material and she refers to him as her father but we haven’t seen her in a long time nor has he mentioned her, is she Susan’s mom I wonder 🤔but he said he hasn’t met her yet so does he have another kid? This was really cool, full of throw backs and back story, anyone looking to figure out who Sutekh is watch Pyramids of Mars from the Tom Baker era and he shows up in books fighting the Sylvester McCoy Doctor out of body because the Doctor destroyed his body when he trapped him, he’s just energy that takes form now. I don’t know who Mrs. Flood is but she got dark for a second, I don’t think she’s a villain but she knows what is going on. I wish Sarah Jane (Elizabeth Sladen) hadn’t passed from cancer, she’d be playing the part Mel is taking up I think, since she’d experienced Sutekh with Tom Baker’s Doctor. Sarah is my favorite companion of all time, she was my first actually. The Doctor has one daughter that we have met, she is a genetic clone of him that was made without his permission. He was also married to a human English woman when his memory was locked away and he was in the past in England and he was living as a human. He was married to Riversong, they could have had a child but again we don’t know, he’s so old and his timeline is a mess because we have a Doctor who is human in another universe with Rose Tyler, we have a Doctor who is now canon in a different universe who is a regen we know nothing about who was played by Richard E Grant. We have the Doctor that is played by Jo Martin, another female doctor that the last Doctor encountered but has no memory of and that Doctor says she doesn’t remember Jody Whitaker’s Doctor so she can’t be from Whitaker’s future. I think the Doctor doesn’t really know how old they actually are. None of the Pantheon abide by the rules of our reality because they don’t exist in it, they all manipulate reality because they aren’t confined by the rules of it. Kate took her name back because she has nothing to prove anymore and when she speaks about her dad, it’s with respect and a deep appreciation of what he gave her, what he sacrificed so that there was a world for her to live in, of course she reclaims her heritage, why wouldn’t she? I am loving this, haven’t been this fired up for Who in awhile
I’m wondering if Jenny is actually Susan’s mother and she sent her back in time to the First Doctor for some reason. The Doctor still thinks Jenny is dead
But 15th said, in the Boom episode, that he was a parent: "Dad to dad, you never let them down".I mean, is not only something said but previous Doctors, he said it. I font get why he is saying he is not yet now.
I was thinking the TARDIS could be sus all season because it was literally a prize from the Toy Makers domain, and for whatever reason this Doctor hasn’t acknowledged the Tardis as having a soul that he’s affectionate towards like the others have
Oh I never knew people had issues with Kate changing her last name. Honestly I barely even noticed the change. We all know who her father is and she has been on top of UNIT for many years now. Well yeah she made her dream come true she can honor her family and dad. She can proudly say who her father was and she made it own her own name. People who just meet her would probably don’t even know her whole history so it doesn’t really matter what her last name is
"How's your Mom? How's your Uncle" Awww. Is it too much to hope for a 15/14 reunion in the future? Just to see the two of them to catch up on each other's lives. Hope 15 breaks the three-season trend too. I've been enjoying him immensely since his introduction. I love how RTD brings back classic villains. It is one of the things I missed about his style during the Moffatt and Chibnall eras. I'm betting Mrs. Flood is Susan. But why didn't she reveal herself to the Doctor before?
I really like this episode. The reveal of Sutekh does fall flat for me, but that's only because I don't really know the character. The build-up to that was fantastic. And I love that they took the opportunity to take an actor's name, Susan Twist, and make it literal. She is literally a Susan twist. And the Doctor was wrong. It's not another anagram, it's a homophone.
she could still be Susan, Remember he said we can hide ourselves a throwback to the pocket watches and appear human, could she be hidden. Hmm and could Ruby be his daughter and making Susan her daughter :D i still think Mrs Flood is The Rani, she is a rogue timelord who experiments on humans and other species.
The Doctor said timelords can regenerate to hide themselves away. Mrs Flood says she usually hides herself away. Mrs Flood and the Doctor have never interacted but she knew about the TARDIS. Also, Sutekh shows just how lazy the showrunners got over the years after RTD left the show. How many times have they used the Daleks, Cybermen or The Master as the "big bad"? There are plenty of legacy villains that can be brought back, like the Toymaker and Sutek but they just used the old reliables. RTD proves he was the best person to revive Doctor Who.
Hey Omn1👋🏻 . Did one of the versions of Susan looked like a Borg? We know Star Trek is kind of there in this Universe. When did Doctor visit all those places we saw different Susans?
In the 3rd episode he says father to father because he does technically have a daughter at that point but maybe he just hasn’t had the kid that results in Susan yet.
What about the episode called the Doctors Daughter.. where his genetic material created a girl soldier.. at the end she regenerates & travels away .. never seen her again .. Sutek was the 4th Doctor Tom bakers one of his most evil villains
THEORY: The Doctor will open that pocket watch to use his knowledge from the millions or billions of lives he lived and was made to forget to save the Earth and Universe from Sutekh and his Harbingers
Susan wasn't left behind in an alternate timeline she was left behind in the 22nd century after she fell in love with a freedom fighter called David in the First Doctor story "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", Big Finish and television are a seperate entity. Yeah the whole "not yet has a granddaugher" or "i have or will not have kids" thing i don't know if i like that to be honest i prefer the idea that it was the young First Doctor had a family and kids i find that whole time retcon out of order thing abit fanfic if i'm honest i wish the modern writers would leave things vague, the whole family thing with Susan probaly not something to overthink about too much it's been 60 years since her departure from the series i think it's abit late for her return now.
7:55 I think they are trying to make Ruby Sunday the mother of Susan, so that she is the Doctor's daughter. I think Mrs Flood is the other Doctor at a later time. It's possible he found out Ruby is his Daughter and chose to stay by Ruby's side, to look after her. Because there’s been a lot of talk about who her mother is, but not about who her "father" is. I think that, is the Doctor. Because, I still think there’s a bigger twist to come.
-As soon as they left that 1 guard in the room I was like * cough red shirt cough * - I also read those msgs with darkening duck going through my head - so much happened in this episode the outro to my reaction was not cohesive at all.
The one god no one wants to bring back from being traped beyond the void, the god of Death. Also where are his kids he had with River Song in the future?
@@HellfireCommsmy favorite big finish river and Doctor story is really the one with the 9th Doctor. They go deep there and she gets to know him in a way she's never had a chance to. I hope they have more stories in the future.
They did not Mention Omega My Guess is because Omega Well I Heard there are Rights Issues with Omega that is why they Can't Use or Mention him, That is Sad Cause Omega is Literally the God of Time he Created the Black Hole That Gave the Timelords the Power of Time Travel.
Could ruby be alex campbell daughter because why didn't doctor mention his great grandson alex campbell because he mention his granddaughter Susan lot?and I'd like to see harry Edward melling or ty tennant play next doctor because they are grandchildren of peter davison and Patrick trioughtion? Also I like harry Edward in harry potter movies?
@@Jarcovancapelleveenit's not about changing her name to Susan Foreman, it's more that Ruby is the human counterpart and Susan being the timelord version and if you still need a reason, it's easy. If Ruby knows about Susan, and she has to go back in time to Hartnell, she just introduces herself as that and adopts that identity.
My question is: who did he have kids with to get Susan? I believe his first family died in the time war. He could have had a second family, we just dont know with who yet? We know he had another kid who died in Tens season, so he has to have other kids somewhere. I wish it was with River, but she's gone too. So it will be with someone else. Man sometimes its confusing. Lol. Ms flood is still a mystery, Ruby we need to know the mother, and we get a Pyramid of Mars sequel.
@@daurydavis3983 DUDE i just dont like the cgi, would rather have a puppet or a person there. Also, as non classic fan, i didnt get any reaction to the dig itself (although the set up and dramatic entrance was amaizing)
4:00 The crowd is chanting "Sutekh"
the reveal of Sutekh was fantastic, and building up referencing The Trickster (who got a couple of nods during Ten's run but was a prominent villain in Sarah Jane's spinoff - in an episode Ten appeared him, the Trickster was mentioned as being part of the Pantheon of Discord - and Sutekh first appeared when she was traveling with the Fourth Doctor), but the Toymaker and the Maestro we already knew about, the Mara is another Classic pull, the Threefold Deity of Malice, Mischief and Mayhem may be a reference to the Gods of Ragnarok from The Greatest Show in the Galaxy serial, and then we've got a few new names to add to the list
RTD might've been cooking up the Pantheon as a way to tie all these beings together for a while
So just missing Omega and the White/Black Guardians
@@GladtoberanDOM And Fenric (from 'The Curse of Fenric') and Kronos (from 'The Time Monster').
Wild Blue Yonder. That was the first sign of infection. The 4th Doctor trapped Sutekh in a time corridor and sent him to the far future. Maybe he sent him to the edge of the universe. Where he had been… waiting.
And because the 14th doctor used salt at the edge of the universe , he set suetekh free
@@Thewoodenworkbench he certainly let the Toymaker go, who warned him about someone else.
@@Thewoodenworkbench I’m not sure it was the salt, because the TARDIS made the sound as soon as it crashed there. So I think Sutekh latched onto it as soon as it arrived. Maybe the salt allowed him to slowly manifest into that dimension. Who really knows? Timey-wimey
Susan showed up at the beginning of WBY. Could Donna's coffee have been what did it? Or maybe The Flux? Since it has been mentioned since then
@@playlistb3795some of it harkens back to the Doctor's identity but apart from mentioning it from time to time and making the foundling connection with Ruby, RTD won't explore much else about that. We have to remember the fact that Division was responsible for the Flux because of the threat the Doctor posed by running away, but the Flux and Division itself don't necessarily have anything to do with the Timeless Child mystery and the part of that mystery RTD is interested in exploring is the Foundling and how that connects the Doctor to Ruby. Which is why I think there’s a deeper connection between them, like she is the Doctor's daughter and in turn, Susan's mother. Either that or she might be Jenny's daughter and if she is, then who knows, she might also be Susan, hidden by the chameleon arch and if that's the case, then maybe her journey with this Doctor ends with her going back in time to meet and travel with, Hartnell's Doctor. That seems to line up with what RTD is trying to do
Carla calling it 'the Beast' feels a little bit like meta foreshadowing, as the Beast from Ten's first series was voiced by Gabriel Woolf, who played Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars in 1975 and reprises the role here
or its the same being after all " sutekh" is another name for satin
It also jebaited me into being certain it was him until the very last anagram reveal.
They might be the same entity.
I think they’re one and the same
When the toymaker shuddered and said he wouldnt challenge someone i was like..whos the one person the toymaker could be scared of and my brain went "sutekh" and damn!!!!
As a fan, my earliest memory, the episode that hooked me into "Doctor Who" back in the 70's, was “Pyramids of Mars“ with Tom Baker's 4th Doctor. OMG!!! My first villain, Sutekh, has returned.
It takes an old companion like Mel to smack some sense into the Doctor. Thank you Mel.
it was like Mel was channelling her inner Sixth Doctor
That was awesome
I fear something happening to Mel next episode. With the Doctor frozen, I worry she’s going to try to stop Sutekh from touching the Doctor.
@@jwsel possibly
@@jwsel I wouldn't worry too much about that friend, well not at that moment at least the original season trailer has Mel and The Doctor driving away from Sutek's gift on a motorbike... but who knows what happens after that... hopeful she comes out alive at the end love us some Mel in this house!
I knew she wasn't Susan, because she never fell and twisted her ankle.
True. Especially since they stayed faithful to the first years by having Ncuti on holiday for most of two episodes.
I SPIT OUT MY COFFEE AT THE ACCURACY OF THIS STATEMENT
I like the fact that Sutekh seems to have a big red Ruby embedded in his forehead 😅
That big ruby is a bit bonk bonk
i love the fact it referenced the trickster from the sarah jane adventures series which david tennents 10th doctor showed up to counter
I'm going to be watching the finale in the cinema a few hours before it hits streaming next week and i am unbelievably excited now
Good for you 😊
me too!! i cant fucking wait
Have fun!
I absutely love how they immediately brought up the major RTD breadcrumbs and threw them all out.
One of my favorite classic one offs is finally back. A little sad that the robot mummies don’t seem to have made the trip with him
Yet! Lol
Not yet ! I guess Harbinger and Susan are the equivalent of the mummies. I went back to watch the Pyramids of Mars and he posessed a couple of people including the doctor. I don’t remember it as I was very young when it was broadcast. I was actually enthralled with it. I remember I loved Tom Baker and he changed into Peter Davison when I was 12. I was gutted.
This season has featured orphans and those who lost their mummy. Maybe we will have mummies galore next week.
One of my Favorite 4th Doctor episodes "Pyramids of Mars" introduced Sutekh back in 1975..... been a long time since then.
As a classic Who fan, love RTD brought back Sutekh the Destoyer.
Finally been forever
Want the mummies back.
Yeah, we've had multiple Doctors, including this one, saying that they're a parent. Ten said he lost them. Eleven came out with a cot, said it was his, but also hesitated presumably because he wasn't the only baby that slept in it. So, did the Doctor raise his children before he's had a chance to create them? The plot thickens like a custard.
I feel like the seeming malevolence of Mrs. Flood is another red herring. We didn't see her again in the episode, so she wasn't a harbinger, and while the line delivery seemed sinister, she could be an ally of the doctor.
She's very mysterious, a bit cheeky and knows more than she lets on. What other character in this show do those qualities remind you of?
I am like 90% sure that Flood is Doctor's granddaughter. She even says that she's been "hiding".
I think she’s actually Susan ( we only know her as Mrs Flood) The Doctors granddaughter. Looks like Harbinger and Susan Triad are the ‘mummies’ from the original Dr Who story in 1975. The doctor trapped him in a time loop.
It might be another red herring but the change to a Scottish accent makes me think she's missy
@fayesouthall6604 the doctor is also known as "the oncoming storm" and what also comes with a storm? A flood.
The Doctor earlier this season after he mentioned Susan to Ruby she asked if he had a family and he said "had, will have"
Yeah I don't particulary like that to be honest RTD is messing around with history too much.
@@joshuajoshua2732 I’m fine with it. Specially since it seems like set up for future Susan stuff that I’m hoping he will go into it in the future.
@@BARALover96But then, in Boom, he said he was a father.
@@susannariera yeah and?
@@BARALover96 and, if he said then that he is a father (as he said in previous seasons), why is he saying now that he isn't a father yet?
I'm glad I am not the only one who read that in Darkwing Duck's voice.
Tenant had a clone daughter in the episode where the clone soliders and fish people were at war with each other.
Hath
@@tycol322 Yup, Jenny.
I'm really, really, hoping that we learn that Jenny had a daughter and named her Susan, in future series. I think there are some fun ways to play with the fact that Jenny - as a clone of the Doctor - would be closer to his other universe genetics.
Father, Mother, Other - Death, Life, and Time - Sutek, (Ruby's Mother), and The Timeless Child. In the expanded universe "The Other" is a being that is part of the history of the Time Lords - Rassilon, Omega, and The Other were listed as the 3 founders of the Time Lords. Its been hinted even before the Timeless Child was mention that some how The Doctor and The Other were some how related (literally).
Thinking about the fact that Church on Ruby Road & 73 Yards were also modern time period versions of Susan. Even if 73 Yards basically didn't happen there are still TWO Susans in the same time period and moment alongside Susan Triad. So alongside Susan Triad there was still the hippie lady from the Club and the hiker in Whales.
It may or not be anything but you know how they mention the Camera is 66.7 metres away from the Church? Do you know what you'd get if you convert that into yards? 🤔
Yes, and 20m offset of the Tardis = 6.66 x 3, The triad of beings, all with 666. Numerology overload.
Completely fantastic episode, its conclusion is incredible. I think Harbinger and Susan Triad are both the ‘mummies’ that are the main characters human form, from the 1975 episodes, Pyramids Of Mars. Think Mrs Flood is the Doctors granddaughter. She knows what a Tardis is and she encouraged Ruby to enter it in the Christmas episode.
Just mentioning a thing that has been on my mind since Christmas. While we assume, and it would make sense that the woman dropping baby Ruby off is her mother, we actually don't know that.
I was thinking the same thing. Like maybe this entity is actually the god of time, because she’s able to control the memories and even the replaying of the memory on the videotape is changed when she’s there. And then she turns around and points at, not the doctor, but Sutekh, who’s attached to the tardis. Perhaps she grabbed this random child and put it here, knowing that the doctor would become involved with the adult Ruby, so that he or she could bring the doctor back to where Sutekh enters the universe again.
49 years of waiting been awhile
It just hit me, maybe Hartnell's Doctor DID meet their child, and possibly raised them, but it's a future incarnation of the Doctor that actually fathers the child. David Tennant said "I've been a father before." That's different from "I've had children before." But I dunno, I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around this "not yet" statement. It's confused me lol
I think he's trying to do a clever rewrite without necessarily retconing anything
@@TheLibrarianOG1 It's interesting because it doesn't really contradict the Classic Series. What it doesn't gel well with is what RTD himself wrote earlier. (Does "the Doctor lies" apply here?)
That was my thought - either he raised his kids but they came from the future, or Susan was sent to the Doctor as a child and he raised his grandchild but acted liked a father to her.
I think the Tennant line, which is again reiterated upon River's identity reveal makes it a plot hole, because I think RTD is trying to rewrite Susan's origin and somehow tie it to Ruby's true identity. He did say, the reveal of her parentage is something akin to River's own reveal, so yeah, I think that's what they are trying to do. Tie it to Susan and the Doctor and Ruby herself, give them all an origin of sorts and some tangible family and roots without having to dig into where the Doctor actually came from.
I love Morris Gibbons, the actor who plays him did so good. Cute kid
The tardis first groaned during flux with no explanation
There could still be connections to that. RTD has shown that he's willing to explore a few aspects of that.
There could still be connections to that. RTD has shown that he's willing to explore a few aspects of that.
I have never watched classic who, but I felt actual terror this episode because the look the Doctor had when it was revealed as Sutekh told me this is something he's been afraid of coming back
Yeah, I was thinking Ruby has something to do with time. So the cloaked figure might be the god of time, and she turns and points to Sutekh on the Tardis-probably trying to stop him from destroying everything.
This is what I was thinking. I think she was pointing at Sutekh and the TARDIS, not at the Doctor through the time window.
What an epic buildup. RTD still has it when it comes to villains. If only the season had been a bit longer to build up to this.
That, plus the space between episodes feels really empty. We needed more downtime between the Doctor and Ruby. It works without that, but it's not very graceful as is.
Nobody does season finales like Russell.
Great reaction as always! This episode left so many questions unanswered but I am so ready for the answers next week! Also, I need the Mrs Flood reveal STAT.
It's cool they're getting into the Doctor Who versions of Egyptian mythology again! I'm now thinking that when the Doctor referenced "the pantheon" regarding the Celestials, it was really foreshadowing for the reintroduction of other Osirans.
I wonder if Mrs. Flood is Nephthys? She is, after all, Sutekh's wife in the official Doctor Who novels, and she's the guardian of the dead in Egyptian mythology. And then Ruby's mom might be Tefnut, who hasn't yet appeared in Doctor Who, but since the Osirans are based on Greek mythology, Tefnut was Sutekh's grandmother and *the goddess of rain and moist air* (which is as close to winter/snow as you'll find in a desert culture).
Maybe Flood is Tefnut. Flood-water-rain-snow ??
@@darkphoenix6807 Oooh, maybe she is, and maybe she's also Ruby's mother! When she told Ruby, "Still hoping for that growth spurt?" it was played off like a jab at her height, but... what if she meant something like "still waiting to come into your Osiran abilities?"
Oh! Talk about a cliffhanger.
This episode was soooo gooood! I can’t wait for the next one!
The Second Doctor talked about having a family in the past tense while comforting Victoria over the loss of her father in "The Tomb of the Cybermen". After all the Susan teasing, I was really hoping Carole Ann Ford, who turned 83 today, would get to reprise the Doctor's granddaughter on TV again.
There's also still Jenny, Doctor's clone daughter
I hope we see her again some day!
Yeah, Sutekh coming back I did not see coming. That was a surprise.
I don't have nearly enough Classic Who knowledge to have seen this coming like this, it was nice to be surprised completely once in a while. I love Who touching on even more full-on SUPERNATURAL (even if these gods aren't what we think of as gods, just so far beyond our plane of existence).
Thanks, Omni! ⏳ Such a great episode. The finale is set to be wild.
Would be pretty interesting if the mystery woman was laughing instead of crying.
I've been saying that each episode has been better than the prior one (except Space Babies wasn't better than Church on Ruby Road,) and this episode...THIS Episode was masterful. Up until they go to Mel with the hand thing, that entire first part was incredible. But even then, they finally brought in all the things people have been wondering about this season. Susan. Flood. Tardis noise. Is Susan HIS Susan. Ruby's Mom. They also did great fan service with Rose and Mel and Kate and UNIT in general. But I did NOT see Sutekh as being The One Who Waits. Wow! Can hardly wait for the finale...although yeah they needed MORE episodes this season than we got, but still...THIS is how ya do it!
I have a theory/spoiler
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
..
..
#spoiler
There was a character named Ibrahim that was a follower of Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars. COL Ibrahim didn't salute the TARDIS/Doctor - he saluted SUTEKH! ... also when everyone else flinched during the Time Window explosion he stayed stoic.
Anyone notice that when they showed Mrs Flood, they showed a flashing clock first? Chameleon arch, timelord, or Tardis indication? Anyone?
I noticed that and I also noticed that The Doctor mentions timelords can change to hide themselves away and then right as Mrs Flood shows up she mentions being tired of hiding herself away. Quite the coincidence
@@howard315there’s definitely something there
I think the second regeneration wasn't a biregeneration, but the collision of the comic universe. It's why a comic regeneration face appeared and why sutekh looks like his comic incarnation and why this doctor doesn't remember his family, but Tennet does.
18:36 Man, you’re one of the few reactors I’ve seen who knows who Sutekh actually is
I’ve always enjoyed Carol of the Bells. Used in such a creepy way this season! ❤
Susan was left on earth in the first doctor series Dalek Invasion of Earth. It occurred in 2008, in a timeline that no longer exists because of Dalek history rewritten by Genesis of the Daleks (and likely the start of the Time War). The Daleks were buried delaying their rise by centuries. Susan though as a Timelord is unaffected by timeline changes. The world would have changed around her.
7:17 I’m almost positive that Mrs. Flood is Susan!
Dalek Caan called the Doctor the "Threefold Man" and the woman in unit mentioned the Threefold Deity....my personal headcanon, is they are one and the same..Timeless Child, Doctor, Valeyard
I believe the explanation on the doctors family is really simple. He's talking in the moment. He has a grandaughter who is alive in the now but not kids who live in the furrow. She traveled with him when they didn't and she was left in the past ( compared to them for sure) so she exists out of order. Before her parents exist thanks to time travel
GOOD MORNING! My theory is that Dorothy Bell is Ruby's mom. Dorothy fought Sutekh in the comics and is a minor god herself.
The Rani is sure to return.
I think when they said the mother, the father and the other, it was their version of a trinity, the mother, the father and the other is Suteche. Part of me thinks that Ruby is the opposite of Sutech because, for there being a christmas song being put in Ruby, seems odd for someone or something, related, to be connected with something so hopeful.
I share your confusion about the Doctor's implying that he hadn't had kids yet - Cause, well, RTD1 era established that the Doctor was already a dad (he literally tells Donna "I've been a father before"). The Moffat era then reiterated this, with 12 having "dad skills". And even this season, we've had mentions of him being a father ("dad to dad" was an entire plot point in Boom), so, that was a bit odd imo.
I just took it as meaning that while he has children he is currently in 2024 which could be before his children were born but Susan could still exist if she too had travelled back to a point before her own birth.
@simonorourke4465 that was my thought too. The 1st Doctor had a kid some time after 2024 and later went back in time to 1963 with just his granddaughter. He's had kids at some point in his past, but they also won't exist for a couple more centuries or however long.
In the original pilot for Doctor Who before it was reshot, Susan told Ian and Barbara that she was born in the 49th Century. This could be a reference to that.
I thought that kid harbinger appeared for every Pantheon member but they each have their own individual harbingers that they send before they come. Susan was a projection of Sutekh (old who villain from Tom Baker and Sylvester Mcoy eras), it’s a Pantheon being, the one who waits, he’s their aspect of death because they’ve all took aspects from our reality they liked, well this one saw death and said give me some of that. The Doctor is the time lord who trapped him so that’s why all of these gods hate the Doctor. He somehow attached himself to the Tardis and “Susan” has been appearing in all of these places because they’ve been dragging Sutekh around attached to the Tardis. It’s had nothing to do with granddaughter Susan but I do think that’s a storyline that’s going to pay off down the line. We did learn that Susan is actually the Doctors blood relative but he’s never mentioned her mother or met her, yet. I thought Susan was a human he took out of her timeline in his travels and because he looked so old back then, he just said she was his grandchild but she actually is, that story has to pay off somewhere because she’s never really explained throughout the entire run, she’s just with him and no one says hey old man where did you get this young woman. We know the Doctor has a daughter, a cloned being made from his genetic material and she refers to him as her father but we haven’t seen her in a long time nor has he mentioned her, is she Susan’s mom I wonder 🤔but he said he hasn’t met her yet so does he have another kid? This was really cool, full of throw backs and back story, anyone looking to figure out who Sutekh is watch Pyramids of Mars from the Tom Baker era and he shows up in books fighting the Sylvester McCoy Doctor out of body because the Doctor destroyed his body when he trapped him, he’s just energy that takes form now. I don’t know who Mrs. Flood is but she got dark for a second, I don’t think she’s a villain but she knows what is going on. I wish Sarah Jane (Elizabeth Sladen) hadn’t passed from cancer, she’d be playing the part Mel is taking up I think, since she’d experienced Sutekh with Tom Baker’s Doctor. Sarah is my favorite companion of all time, she was my first actually. The Doctor has one daughter that we have met, she is a genetic clone of him that was made without his permission. He was also married to a human English woman when his memory was locked away and he was in the past in England and he was living as a human. He was married to Riversong, they could have had a child but again we don’t know, he’s so old and his timeline is a mess because we have a Doctor who is human in another universe with Rose Tyler, we have a Doctor who is now canon in a different universe who is a regen we know nothing about who was played by Richard E Grant. We have the Doctor that is played by Jo Martin, another female doctor that the last Doctor encountered but has no memory of and that Doctor says she doesn’t remember Jody Whitaker’s Doctor so she can’t be from Whitaker’s future. I think the Doctor doesn’t really know how old they actually are. None of the Pantheon abide by the rules of our reality because they don’t exist in it, they all manipulate reality because they aren’t confined by the rules of it. Kate took her name back because she has nothing to prove anymore and when she speaks about her dad, it’s with respect and a deep appreciation of what he gave her, what he sacrificed so that there was a world for her to live in, of course she reclaims her heritage, why wouldn’t she? I am loving this, haven’t been this fired up for Who in awhile
I’m wondering if Jenny is actually Susan’s mother and she sent her back in time to the First Doctor for some reason. The Doctor still thinks Jenny is dead
But 15th said, in the Boom episode, that he was a parent: "Dad to dad, you never let them down".I mean, is not only something said but previous Doctors, he said it. I font get why he is saying he is not yet now.
I was thinking the TARDIS could be sus all season because it was literally a prize from the Toy Makers domain, and for whatever reason this Doctor hasn’t acknowledged the Tardis as having a soul that he’s affectionate towards like the others have
Oh I never knew people had issues with Kate changing her last name. Honestly I barely even noticed the change. We all know who her father is and she has been on top of UNIT for many years now. Well yeah she made her dream come true she can honor her family and dad. She can proudly say who her father was and she made it own her own name. People who just meet her would probably don’t even know her whole history so it doesn’t really matter what her last name is
"How's your Mom? How's your Uncle" Awww. Is it too much to hope for a 15/14 reunion in the future? Just to see the two of them to catch up on each other's lives.
Hope 15 breaks the three-season trend too. I've been enjoying him immensely since his introduction.
I love how RTD brings back classic villains. It is one of the things I missed about his style during the Moffatt and Chibnall eras.
I'm betting Mrs. Flood is Susan. But why didn't she reveal herself to the Doctor before?
Chibnall did more callbacks and links to classic who than the other two. If you really know your Who history
I really like this episode. The reveal of Sutekh does fall flat for me, but that's only because I don't really know the character. The build-up to that was fantastic. And I love that they took the opportunity to take an actor's name, Susan Twist, and make it literal. She is literally a Susan twist. And the Doctor was wrong. It's not another anagram, it's a homophone.
she could still be Susan, Remember he said we can hide ourselves a throwback to the pocket watches and appear human, could she be hidden. Hmm and could Ruby be his daughter and making Susan her daughter :D i still think Mrs Flood is The Rani, she is a rogue timelord who experiments on humans and other species.
The Doctor said timelords can regenerate to hide themselves away. Mrs Flood says she usually hides herself away. Mrs Flood and the Doctor have never interacted but she knew about the TARDIS. Also, Sutekh shows just how lazy the showrunners got over the years after RTD left the show. How many times have they used the Daleks, Cybermen or The Master as the "big bad"? There are plenty of legacy villains that can be brought back, like the Toymaker and Sutek but they just used the old reliables. RTD proves he was the best person to revive Doctor Who.
Not really, but if you believe that, good for you.
@@TheLibrarianOG1 point out my lie
WHO THE HELL IS MRS. FLOOD?!
Hey Omn1👋🏻 . Did one of the versions of Susan looked like a Borg? We know Star Trek is kind of there in this Universe. When did Doctor visit all those places we saw different Susans?
In the 3rd episode he says father to father because he does technically have a daughter at that point but maybe he just hasn’t had the kid that results in Susan yet.
So at some point Sutekh uses the tardis to travel back to the night Ruby was left at the church but why?
OMG You Won't Believe Who Returns.
What about the episode called the Doctors Daughter.. where his genetic material created a girl soldier.. at the end she regenerates & travels away .. never seen her again .. Sutek was the 4th Doctor Tom bakers one of his most evil villains
THEORY: The Doctor will open that pocket watch to use his knowledge from the millions or billions of lives he lived and was made to forget to save the Earth and Universe from Sutekh and his Harbingers
By series 16(season 3) we should get that crossover with Trek.
I will watch the Original episodes with Sutekh. I have watched the classic Toymaker story.
Anubis got a big ruby on his head... coïncidence?
Nope, very deliberate ruby.
Nope not really
What Barbra is the daughter of the "Doctor's Daughter" during 10's run?
Susan wasn't left behind in an alternate timeline she was left behind in the 22nd century after she fell in love with a freedom fighter called David in the First Doctor story "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", Big Finish and television are a seperate entity.
Yeah the whole "not yet has a granddaugher" or "i have or will not have kids" thing i don't know if i like that to be honest i prefer the idea that it was the young First Doctor had a family and kids i find that whole time retcon out of order thing abit fanfic if i'm honest i wish the modern writers would leave things vague, the whole family thing with Susan probaly not something to overthink about too much it's been 60 years since her departure from the series i think it's abit late for her return now.
7:55 I think they are trying to make Ruby Sunday the mother of Susan, so that she is the Doctor's daughter. I think Mrs Flood is the other Doctor at a later time. It's possible he found out Ruby is his Daughter and chose to stay by Ruby's side, to look after her. Because there’s been a lot of talk about who her mother is, but not about who her "father" is. I think that, is the Doctor. Because, I still think there’s a bigger twist to come.
Ruby might be alex campbell daughter?because he was 17 years old when he was killed by dalek?
@@stephaniepage4334it wouldn't explain the other things, like the snow or the 73 yards, etc
-As soon as they left that 1 guard in the room I was like
* cough red shirt cough *
- I also read those msgs with darkening duck going through my head
- so much happened in this episode the outro to my reaction was not cohesive at all.
SUTEKH HAS RETURNED
I hope we get a Tom Baker flashback!
I think the Doctor lied to Kate because he didn't want to talk about Susan at that time
The one god no one wants to bring back from being traped beyond the void, the god of Death. Also where are his kids he had with River Song in the future?
Do we know that he had any kids with River Song?
@@danielkiran8174 Not unless it happened in some Big Finish audio or whatever.
@@HellfireCommsmy favorite big finish river and Doctor story is really the one with the 9th Doctor. They go deep there and she gets to know him in a way she's never had a chance to. I hope they have more stories in the future.
They did not Mention Omega My Guess is because Omega Well I Heard there are Rights Issues with Omega that is why they Can't Use or Mention him, That is Sad Cause Omega is Literally the God of Time he Created the Black Hole That Gave the Timelords the Power of Time Travel.
I'm afraid they might go the Predestination route and say Ruby is her own parents. Why else would she be regarded as "wrong" by a god?
Could ruby be alex campbell daughter because why didn't doctor mention his great grandson alex campbell because he mention his granddaughter Susan lot?and I'd like to see harry Edward melling or ty tennant play next doctor because they are grandchildren of peter davison and Patrick trioughtion? Also I like harry Edward in harry potter movies?
well Susan was a trap who set up the trap God of Traps Trickster
Weird theory but what if Jenny is Susan’s mother.
More like what if Jenny is Ruby's mother and Ruby is Susan.
@@TheLibrarianOG1 that would be interesting but why would Ruby change her name to Susan Foreman?
@@Jarcovancapelleveenit's not about changing her name to Susan Foreman, it's more that Ruby is the human counterpart and Susan being the timelord version and if you still need a reason, it's easy. If Ruby knows about Susan, and she has to go back in time to Hartnell, she just introduces herself as that and adopts that identity.
My question is: who did he have kids with to get Susan? I believe his first family died in the time war. He could have had a second family, we just dont know with who yet? We know he had another kid who died in Tens season, so he has to have other kids somewhere. I wish it was with River, but she's gone too. So it will be with someone else. Man sometimes its confusing. Lol. Ms flood is still a mystery, Ruby we need to know the mother, and we get a Pyramid of Mars sequel.
How long has the TARDIS been Sutekh's gf/wife???
In the Doctor's Wife, the TARDIS wipes out House. Was the TARDIS pure up to this point or was it harbouring Sutekh as well?
Disappointing use of CGI
There's always a hater 🙄
I agree on the CGI practical effects are just as better.
@@daurydavis3983 DUDE i just dont like the cgi, would rather have a puppet or a person there. Also, as non classic fan, i didnt get any reaction to the dig itself (although the set up and dramatic entrance was amaizing)