Some of the cut categories include Completeness, Genetics, and Work Ethic. At first glance, all of these things might seem indispensable. But really, completeness (or not lacking any body parts) can be subsumed under Symmetry & Proportions, since anyone with glaring weak points or imbalances will be marked down there. Genetics is basically redundant because if you score highly on structure, symmetry and proportions, mass and aesthetics, you're genetically gifted. Aesthetics itself also has some major overlap with symmetry, structure, and proportions, but I felt this is so important in the eyes of most bodybuilding fans, especially the casual viewer, that it warranted its own score. (Also wanted something to offset the enormous advantages modern bodybuilders have in the muscularity and conditioning departments.) Work ethic is a little more debatable but as far as actual bodybuilding competition is concerned, I would argue that it's largely irrelevant. Whether you're squatting 800lbs or only leg pressing 2 plates, it doesn't matter; all that counts at the end of the day is what you bring to the stage. It was kind of factored into Impact & Influence anyway, but I don't believe it deserves its own sub-score. PS Franco Columbu was not included because nobody in their right mind would rank him above Arnold, Zane, AND Sergio. So by definition he cannot be the GOAT.
Franco totally blew it in 1981 despite the contest results. “But he could deadlift 700 lbs. they will say”. Too bad bodybuilding has nothing to do with powerlifting feats.
I will say one thing on that I always found early career Dorian to have a very aesthetic physique. I understand his placing but I probably would have given him another point in that area.
In defense of Frank Zane: he is the only one here who frequently defeated competitors outweighing him by 30-50 lbs. As far as the shock factor, Zane looked nothing like his photos in real life. I was totally blown away when I saw him in person. His level of conditioning, and his polish and finish were absolutely mind blowing. He didn’t look small at all. That didn’t happen until he stood next to a monster like Lou ferrigano.
Armenak Balasanov I also saw saw Lee Haney in person. He looked like he did in the photos( awesome). I disagree with what you say. I think overall appearance, size, and shape are easy to convey in photographs or in magazines. The quality Zane had was a type of “glow”, “polish”, “finish”, or “ presence” that I have never been able to describe. His skin was paper thin, tan, and the muscles had a type of detail/ perfection I’ve never seen before or since. I was with some friends from high school who doubted that he wasn’t better than Robby and Mentzer and the rest based on photographs in magazines. After I saw him I had a total realignment about what bodybuilding was about and it isn’t weight scales and tape measures. He was just on a different level. When I think of bodybuilding I always think back to what I saw that day in 1980 and I’m still affected by it. I laugh to myself when I hear people think Zane was a natty. There is absolutely zero chance of anyone looking like him without chemical enhancement.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 Wow thats super interesting to hear man. Cool that you've stuck around to bodybuilding after all this time. I always had an ounce of hope and belief in Frank being natural, but judging by what you've seen with your own eyes, maybe thats different. Regardless, I would of never guessed that Frank excelled so much in that area. Truly remarkable if you ask me. That's awesome. Really goes to show how impactful Zane has been for bodybuilding. Would love to hear more tbh
Kurt Vonfricken i absolutely laugh it off when gym newbies said that you can get a physique like franks natty, he is 185-190 lbs at 5-7% BODYFAT while being 5’9, do you realise how much weight you need to lose in order to be that contest ready??? Some 200 lbs fatty gym bros who thinks they are 10% bf (who are actually 20%), “i will cut 10 pounds and ill look like frank zane”, no dude you need to cut at least least 40 lbs lmao.
Plus with the small joints that he has, 185-190 lbs 5’9 5-7% bf is HUGE. That is like 240 lbs if you go to most of fatty gym bros bodyfat (20-25%) and bulked up.
I haven't even watched this yet, but got hyped as soon as I saw that spreadsheet of all the criteria! Nobody breaks down and analyses bodybuilding as well as you do, Love the videos man!
My only criticism is that the Olympia wins should be scored in a way that reflects their importance. If you give each Olympia title two points, it really separates out the field. It also breaks that tie between Phil and Dorian.
Shame the score cards arent all public, would have been lots of work but would have showed context, along with adding this to show the issues of some of Arnolds wins at the O when he won undisputed etc
@@CommonSenseBodybuilding I wouldn't because the level of competition was different. 1980s bodybuilders wouldn't stand a chance in the mid to late 90s and so on.
I give a 10 for idea, execution and relative dominance, a 9.5 for analysis only because you missed some pro wins at now defunct organizations and an 11 for entertainment.
The look and the way we judge bodybuilding has changed so much over time, it's really difficult to compare bodybuilders from different eras. I think you have a pretty good system here to level the playing field. Although the Mr. Olympia is the most prestigious contest but its history has some politics around it that suggest that it has not properly recognized some of the greatest athletes competing at the time (Robby Robinson, Mike Mentzer, Flex Wheeler in particular) seem overlooked. There were some dominating and great bodybuilders before the Olympia (Steve Reeves and Reg Park in particular) that would seem to be in some contention for being ranked as GOAT despite existing before the Olympia. Still it's hard to argue with your final rankings. These are all awesome choices.
I am not sure about the weighting between titles and runner up. Surely, coming 1st should worth more than coming second? Jay got 4 from 1st but 6 from runner up? I personally would weight them differently.
Yeah, there's a little lack in weight differentiation here, but to be fair the more you weigh things differently, the more subjective it will have to get. I agree with this point completely though, there were a couple other categories that I would have weighed differently as well but none the less I'm impressed by this list.
@@johnjohnson9567 but at the end of the day: some points were dealt wrongly other places, some points emphazised on things that to some could have emphazised differently, some things shouldnt be measured on a 10 number scale, and you cant rank the top best solely on points. had jay not gotten those points on that occasion, he could have very arguably earned them on other occasions. that goes for all of them. all points aside: i gotta almost 100% agree with the overall ranking, and thats where i would have placed them aswell. at least the top 5/6, zane and oliva are probably the only ones i might change up a bit if i had to.
I liked having them weighed evenly, since it is very seldom viewed as a one man show in the olympia, so the effect of being in first or second for creating your legacy could be fairly similar.
Just a bit unfair give 1 point for second place, who got 8 times 2nd place and 0 wins would have same points of someone who won 8 times. Half point would be better
@@Jesus_Garcia25 at the end of the day, some other points could have been dealt very differently. if that "olympia titles" score needed to change up a bit, some other scores arguably needed it too, and at the end the result would probably add up and end with the same outcome. you cant decide who is the GOAT solely by points, its way too subjective - you would have to argue why some things weigh more than others, things that are too improportiante to be measured by giving out points from 1 to 10. and in all honesty (all points aside) the top 9 ranking would look more or less exactly like the one tom said, even if there hadnt been any point system. maybe it randomly just added up like that, some were only 0.5 points away from eachother, but at least it shows the list is a good indicator for the overall ranking, bcs the list ended up the way it probably should have been. His system takes a lot of things into consideration, and if jay maybe shouldnt have gotten a point there, others shouldnt have gotten this point here. at the end it would look more or less the same, bcs this is probably the closest we come to a precise rank of them, even if there hadnt been any points.
OW man I've been begging and waiting for this! It feels like Christmas morning. Easily one of my favorite BB vids next to your best posers series. This was so indepth that it will be the benchmark for anyone daring to match it. Love the breakdown and subjective scoring, even use of mathematics. Second place should be award half the points of first place Mr.O and 3rd place 1/3 points of one Mr. O win. I think this pretty much validates most people's ranking of BB goats. Loved to see uncrowned Mr. O series.
Lots of people want to look like that. Tons of people are in the gym, taking gear trying to achieve this results or something even close to it. When you walk around you like that people give you a lot of respect and girls give you a lot of attention.
I agree with almost everything, I would have had Olympia wins in its own category but idk if that would have made a difference but I think this is was as objective as it can get (for bodybuilding) I knew Arnold wouldn't be one even suprised he was two, thought Lee Haney would finish a lot higher like he did cuz he's very underappreciated.
Good stuff Tommy boy!!!!! I have never been so completely entertained for nearly half an hour without once feeling the urge to double tap forward. This kind of knowledgeable content combined with solid editing and strait forward unbiased commentary is what's going to make you the number one producer of this kind of content and push you past nick and....... is there anyone else? Lol.... I'm a long time NS&P fan but after this one you may be the new top spot holder for me. Thank man!!!! Just awesome!!! Sorry man I couldn't leave it at that. The more I think about it everyone else is out there selling their souls and chasing gossip and drama and you are putting out this kind of timeless and tasteful stuff. My hat goes off to you sir👏
2:18 I know this isn’t the main focus but holy shit, I thought Kevin had the best shoulders but Ronnie is absolutely killing him. Ronnie is so great, his “okay” body parts were rivaling some of the best of others.
Arnold has some really out of balance body parts. His back, delts, triceps, thighs, and forearms weren’t in the same league as his pecs, biceps, and calves.
God damn I love this channel ... Takes it seriously and gives the time needed to make any list or ranking .... Even though I would put Phil higher in some cases ,... J agree with your list .... Well done brother
Such an underrated channel, idk why you only have 50k subs, you deserve more dude. always look forward to every post you make. all love and more support for you Tom!
Love the video, and love the result too! There were some parts where I disagreed with you... like some parts where I would have put more points for some, less for some on others, and that is exactly why this kind of exercice is very well done! Because if you keep adding metrics, the real GOAT will simply rise to its natural position. You can't argue against the whole chart!
This work is just simply underrated. Only a true bodybuilding fan would do this. And the result was damn accurate . Man I just wish you success . You gonna be way bigger than you are in days to come.
This was by far the most broken down detailed video ever with the photo evidence during the ratings. Im super impressed. Also like how you ranked them by olympia wins. Nice work. Prob took a while to do this. Thank you!
You have been flying under the radar for way too long, Tom. Content like this is golden, really unparalleled by anything else bodybuilding out here! GREAT VIDEO! 👌🙏
I'd like to see a video like this for the remaining Mr. Olympia winners - Franco, Samir, Dickerson, etc. I mean it wouldn't be a GOAT video of course, but it would be cool just to see what kind of scores they would get for a lot of these categories.
Great analysis and the dashboard is really impressive. Even though there may be some who disagree, I strongly believe Ronnie Coleman is the "Greatest Of All Time"
This was a great video. Only thing I would change is make Olympia runner ups worth half the points or Olympias double. I would probably do making runner ups half the points because doubling it would be unfair since Arnold had many years where the title was just given to him or was unjustly given (1980) and Oliva also had a couple years where there was no competition. But jay cutler having a higher Olympia score than Ronnie is unfair once you consider the fact Ronnie has double his Olympia wins.
Really nice job Tom. I first started following bbing in 1979 when I picked up a Muscle Builder Power with Robbie Robinson on the front. So, I have seen basically all the eras over the last 40 years. Most other channels are just regurgitating gossip and they really aren't students of the game with respect to truly assessing physiques and couldn't judge one out of a paper bag in reality.
After watching it, it didn't disappoint. I would say it's your ultimate video, to me, you're the best BB youtuber, you have best shape vids, contest reviews, best body parts, and creative vids like this, arnold is overrated, the ever controversial partial rep vid, the broscience defense vid as a follow up. Thanks a lot for the content. I also think ronnie is the GOAT, 98/99/01 arnold and 03 are peak mass and conditioning, with very few lacking body parts, and very freaky features.
I love all of the conditions taken in this ranking of bodybuilders because you know a lot of bodybuilders are gonna get points taken, like Ronnie Coleman and his horrible posing, or lack of leg muscles of the golden era guys, very complete ranking
Good effort man , Iam an Engineer and I would prefer if you could assign certain percentage for each catagory and the total at the end doesn’t exceed 100 , if the number in certain categories exceed the percentage intended, you just do a simple transfer to get the score out of the percentage that you assigned. This will give the importance of each category its true value since now some category are higher than they should be since they have many scoring raw. I hope you got my point. Thanks for your efforts. You are a special person.
An amazing scale, what a perfect way to place the guys! The reason I honour you this is simply because you are honest, yet bang on when judging my friend-) Facts not emotions you speak honestly from, and I totally love it. Thank you again my friend
Hello tomn8ter, im watching u since u started your channel, back in the days when even the LUI was still around. U did a great video on the topic "GOAT" I love the approach and system u used. And the outcome is clear, Ronnie, no matter how you slice or dice it, with that many variables, and still Ronnie comes on top. Great to see your channel grow so much and your video's are keeping better.
That doesnt make the goat....that makes it the best ambassador and promoter of the sport and thats great. But that doesnt make it the best bodybuilder of all time
If you put the runner ups title you get that Jay was a better bodybuilder than Ronnie (when you combine the Olympia wins and runner ups title you get a score of 10-9) which is clearly not the case since most of those losses can be attributed to Ronnie
This video was extremely enjoyable for me, many thanks for the analysis! My feeling is that Frank Zane was neglected from the standpoint of posing and impact, on the other hand Ronnie Coleman was overrated in the field of aesthetics (e.g. Dorian Yates had extremely good calves with no bubble gut and got only 6, Ronnie had bad calves and big gut, in spite of that he received 7) and individual routines (I really do not like his dancing style during posing). Thanks again!
You deserve way more subs and views my man. Extremely detailed and informing. You are clearly passionate about the sport of Bodybuilding 💪 amen brotha 🙏
Great content as always. There is one big mistake though. If Arnold is an 11 for impact and influence, then all of them are 1 or less, more like 0,1 or less, it is either that or dont even put arnold on that category. It is like comparing Michael Jackson or The Beatles to a local band from your hometown.
Which is why Arnolds the goat. Not technically the best, but the influence and cult of personality. Same as MJ. I'd take Bron 1st pick all time, but MJ is still the goat.
@@benjaminwilson8807 music is overly subjective, although bodybuilding is subjective its much more defined than music. being famous as a musician doesnt automatically mean youre a better musician, being famous as a bodybuilder doesnt mean hes the best bodybuilder.
He should lose a point or 2 for showing up at the 1980 in less than top shape. I think it hurt his reputation and hurt the sport far more than it helped.
Benjamin Wilson um mj is not the case here. he is clearly a more dominant, skillfull and mentally strong basketball player compared to bron who once gave up and made the big3. well bron has clearly more longevity than mj and he had his some dominant moments that could maybe be compared with mj's , but he cannot beat mj in terms of clear dominance in either as an individual or as a team. mj was dominant as an individual throughout his whole career except at the wizards, but what makes mj special is that he started from the bottom and leaded his team to grow up and build a dynasty. bron also started from the bottom and lead his team to grow up, but he gave it up and that makes the clear difference in terms of mental strength of the two players. if you want to claim bron is better because of his statlines based on his longevity, i say this is basketball not baseball. in baseball, yeah that claim is right but in basketball, already there is karim who beats the hell out of mj in longevity but still remains behind mj. mj is the goat because of his dominance(both individual and team), his skills, his mental toughness, and his influence. bron is clearly behind mj when you consider those things that are important for basketball goat not baseball goat.
Great video man, keep 'em coming! As a side note, it's a shame Ronnie destroyed his body being the best of all time... One could argue that it was the only way to do it, but the truth is we will never know, and I tend to perceive bodybuilding legends as someone like Arnold, Jay and Dorian, who gave it all at their prime, but knew how to pull back and stay healthy and inspiring.
Nah Ronnie could've mostly avoided it. His worst injuries occurred after he was already retired when he stubbornly refused to stop training like a maniac, even post-surgery. Dorian proved that it's possible to flip that switch back off.
I'm glad to hear Sergio being talked about. Too often people think of him as the guy who lost to Arnold rather than the once-in-a-generation talent he was. His physique was way ahead of it's time. I think he's one of the few gifted enough that he would have stood out in any era.
Impressive work👏👏👏 My only critic is that someone like Haney (8 M.O. in a row) in the department of titles is at the bottom. You should have applied some kind of correction factorc for second places or minor titles. In the 80's he was the number one star and influence by a mille. On cover magazines for a decade every single Month. And, by the way, something I do not think was represented properly in the influence department; He was the very first modern bodybuilder IMHO! THANKS A LOT FOR THE VIDEO, TRULY ENJOYABLE!!!!!
I see Haney as the end of the Golden Era. Everything after him was mass monsters and bubble guts. People were dropping dead or coming close to dropping dead in the 90s from abusing diuretics.
The Idea of this list is pretty great and I almost agree completely with the way you judged the respective categories, but one thing that doesn't really make sense in my eyes is that the points for 2nd place olympia are 1:1 with 1st place olympia placings. So Jay has the edge here with 10 points in total even though he only actually won 4 times. I would have given it something like a x0.5 or x0.7 multiplicator.
Realy good video and concept, dude. Most people don't realize how much time and effort you put into this video. You deserve a lot more subscribers. Next to RxMuscle, I'd say you rank at the top of bodybuilding channels. Coincidence? I think not. As you are Dave and probably the two smartest guys who cover this topic. Much respect from Atlantic Canada.
i think Ronnie is one of the few (if not the only) who could win from from the generations above his. I know his reing was not so long ago, but putting in perpective, haney´s physique couldn´t beat dorian´s, dorian´s physique couldn´t beat ronnie´s, but ronnie´s best shape would beat jay and phill´s
Yates wouldn't beat an 03 ronnie purely down to the fact that he would get outsized and outmuscled but remember that wasn't the best ronnie! He was massive, but so was his gut and his conditioning was non existent to that of 98! You can see it in his back, how watery it looks and his overall symmetry and proportions were awful. This isn't a knock on ronnie in anyway, he's one of my favourites. Ronnies best physique was 98 and that's coming from ronnie himself, along with 01 Arnold Classic, purely down to the fact that they were almost identical physiques in terms of size, weight and conditioning. So if you put them against a 95 yates, yates would come out on top! 95 yates 257-60, ronnie in 98 was 247 I believe. Yates wins 4 out of the 7 compulsory poses.. (YATES WINS) FLS BLS ST A&T (RONNIE WINS) FDB BDB SC. Ronnie in 98 was good enough for the win, but he barely beat an off flex wheeler. That physique is more beatable than an 03-05 one! Chris aceto said himself how impressive dorian was in person that year up close. Was like he had no skin his conditioning was that good A long with all that size and thickness too! I asked him in a recent Instagram live chat 95 yates vs 98 ronnie and he said yates beats him (just) so for the people that constantly go on about ronnie and the years he was apparently unbeatable, try backing it up with some kind of knowledge or criteria as to why.....
@@scottish__beard8856The truth remain that Ronnie best version/year will beat any of Yates prime.😂 People mostly describe Ronnie as a different breed entirely when it comes to body building. Ronnie look like a monster/beast😂.
excellent video, for me it's Haney, because he has that crazy combination of structure, muscularity, and aesthetics. Unlike other Olympia winners, it's either or.
I really like the largely objective approach to this. So many GOAT videos like this are made by guys who are obviously biased, either because they like a certain guy (Arnold fanboys usually), or because they like certain training regimens (if you see Dorian, Mentzer, and Casey Viator at the top of someone's list, you will learn that the list was compiled by a HIT training aficionado). Also there are some guys who appear to have the ability to IGNORE about half the body, just making their picks based on great chest and back.
Great Vid, Honestly U should replace the judges in the Mr O Next vid: do one for the best 1 time Mr O, Samir, Dickerson, Shawn, and Brandon on this exact same format
I can live with those rankings ! Although I personally feel that Arnold had a little too much influence which benefitted himself in accumulating his 7 Titles, he makes up for it by having influenced the sport more than anyone ever. Everyone has had their share of criticisms and compliments, with some more than others, which more or less cancels themselves out. It’s funny, because if you were to do another one of these videos with the bodybuilders who never won a Mr.O Title, they’d almost all come from the Yates/Coleman era. The consistency of the competition back then was simply spectacular. And this is most likely why the 90’s is seen as the best era ever. Cheers
I lost interest after the1980-1981 Olympia contests. I believe the 90s might have seen the best competitors because of the drugs. Weren’t more people dying right after competitions back then? I think people might have wised up but perhaps not.
Kurt Vonfricken Well, Arnold’s era wasn’t much better than the era’s that came after. Read this article. It’s unreal. www.chaosandpain.com/tips/just-how-badly-do-you-want-to-win-not-as-badly-as-pete-grymkowski-did/ I’d say the recreational drugs are the biggest killers. Although, diuretics and insulin are also not great if you don’t have a full time personal doctor. People did whatever worked for them back then. It’s just that nowadays, there’s more things that work. It really boils down to that. It seems the top bodybuilders all stay relatively healthy after they retire. It’s the bodybuilders who push the limits too far yet can’t achieve their goals that go off the deep end.
Arnold was not thick-waisted! He was wide-waisted. Indeed, when Arnold turned to the side, his waist damn near disappeared, making his upper body mass absolutely overwhelming and awe-inspiring.
What’s amazing about body building is it’s almost always going to be about the subjective impact the athletes and their physiques have on us, the fans. We’re all into the sport because we can find a physique that speaks to what WE find aesthetic, what WE find impressive, and what WE want to emulate. This discussion of the GOAT should not be about heated debate, but a celebration of a sport that purely exists to empower others
Great video, I believe Olivia is the most overlooked champion of all time. Can you imagine how great he would have been with the training and nutrition of today? He was literally training in the dark ages and eating that way as well. Plus they didn’t really have a lot of posing info to refer to. He and Larry Scott were kinda of the pro bodybuilding pioneers. When you look at Olivia’s physique and realize it’s from the late 60’s it blows the mind how he developed it with such primitive equipment
Olivia had the best genetics of any bodybuilder and if he trained like Dorian and had the same mindset, he would've blown the doors of Arnold or Ronnie! His 28 in waist would've been even smaller at 27in and with Dorian's grainy conditioning he would've been unbeatable!!
Dont forget the steroids/hormons/peptide knowledge. He lived in the era where even the pros only knew the bare minimum. Dbol+primo and that's it. A bodybuilder of their age would have unparalelled conditioning hooked them up with some tren/mtren/mast etc
I loved this. Although subjective, trying to incorporate fairness and many other factors with a quantified scale it was way better than sheer like/dislike. Great video.
Sergio is a G.O.A.T in my eyes. There's no changing that. However, props have got to be given when they're due. Ronnie comes out on top and I can see why. I like the list entirely for each of them brought something new to the table in terms of being a champion. Sergio with his muscularity (at the time) and Victory pose. Arnold with the impact and legacy incomparable to others. Zane with the aesthetics and beautiful posing (not saying he was the greatest at it, but was exceptional). Haney with maintaining a champion's physique with little flaw (not to mention breaking the record while going undefeated with 8 wins at the Olympia). Dorian with his ground breaking mass and conditioning ushering in a new era. Ronnie with taking mass and conditioning to the next level while keeping it as proportioned as possible. Dexter with the longevity (which in my opinion has done it better than anyone else). Jay with coming back to reclaim the title after taking an L (which is still yet to be replicated). And finally Phil with the 3D muscles and persona he gives to being the Mr. Olympia. All of them deserve to share the G.O.A.T status because each part of them could construct the ultimate bodybuilder. Just a thought 🤷🏽♂️
@TheLusianPopa I see what you mean. With those genetics, he was blessed without the shadow of a doubt. I think he tried to be a bit more on the health side. And if that is the case, then he has my respect even more.
Once you hit the Olympia with a bubble gut; you lost me. Just no excuse. Lee Haney is my choice; what an amazing physique from head to toe; not to mention the professionalism and class.
prewsky I am with you there sir. I had hoped Haney would fare better as he is such a class act and incredible physique. Ronnies bubble gut is super lame but I can respect the Tominator and how he got to this conclusion.
You only see the bubble gut when they are relax. You hardly ever see it in the mandatories. And tbh as a bodybuilder ronnie obv destroys haney, and has imo a better legacy than him. Haney had a weak line up and had weak legs compared to other BBs in his lineup. Nonetheless both are greats. Ronnie is the goat
Riffat Islam young Ronnie was more aesthetic than any version of Jay. The version in 1998 was probably the most aesthetic mass monster that has ever graced the stage.
@@heimtime_lifting and 2009 version of jay is the most aesthetic of any mass monster RONNIE was only aesthetic in his early 2 or 3 olympia wins Jay always looked more aesthetic except 07 and 08
Some of the cut categories include Completeness, Genetics, and Work Ethic. At first glance, all of these things might seem indispensable. But really, completeness (or not lacking any body parts) can be subsumed under Symmetry & Proportions, since anyone with glaring weak points or imbalances will be marked down there.
Genetics is basically redundant because if you score highly on structure, symmetry and proportions, mass and aesthetics, you're genetically gifted. Aesthetics itself also has some major overlap with symmetry, structure, and proportions, but I felt this is so important in the eyes of most bodybuilding fans, especially the casual viewer, that it warranted its own score. (Also wanted something to offset the enormous advantages modern bodybuilders have in the muscularity and conditioning departments.)
Work ethic is a little more debatable but as far as actual bodybuilding competition is concerned, I would argue that it's largely irrelevant. Whether you're squatting 800lbs or only leg pressing 2 plates, it doesn't matter; all that counts at the end of the day is what you bring to the stage. It was kind of factored into Impact & Influence anyway, but I don't believe it deserves its own sub-score.
PS Franco Columbu was not included because nobody in their right mind would rank him above Arnold, Zane, AND Sergio. So by definition he cannot be the GOAT.
Nice beard man, suits your jawline!
Franco totally blew it in 1981 despite the contest results. “But he could deadlift 700 lbs. they will say”. Too bad bodybuilding has nothing to do with powerlifting feats.
So you're giving 1 point for Olympia wins and 1 point for Olympia 2nd place 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
So we're giving 11pts on a 10pt must system 🙄🤦♂️
Great content my friend thanks
I'm most impressed by the tasteful layout and color scheme of that spreadsheet
🤣👍🏻
My eye balls
The name of that colour scheme is “vomit”
I appreciate how unbiased you were favoring the modern guys for size and then the classic guys for aesthetics. You did that in a very fair way.
I will say one thing on that I always found early career Dorian to have a very aesthetic physique. I understand his placing but I probably would have given him another point in that area.
Early Dorian (up to 93) gets say a 7.5 on aesthetics. By the last couple years he was a 5-6 at best, hence the lower end score.
He is a Ronnie's fanboy.
Glad that he is finished
@@Tomn8er But Ronnie had huge gut and split 4-pack.
98 he had a gyno.
In defense of Frank Zane: he is the only one here who frequently defeated competitors outweighing him by 30-50 lbs. As far as the shock factor, Zane looked nothing like his photos in real life. I was totally blown away when I saw him in person. His level of conditioning, and his polish and finish were absolutely mind blowing. He didn’t look small at all. That didn’t happen until he stood next to a monster like Lou ferrigano.
Have you seen the rest in person too? Lol
I believe every other man would look much more impressive too than on photos🤷🏻♂️
Armenak Balasanov
I also saw saw Lee Haney in person. He looked like he did in the photos( awesome). I disagree with what you say. I think overall appearance, size, and shape are easy to convey in photographs or in magazines. The quality Zane had was a type of “glow”, “polish”, “finish”, or “ presence” that I have never been able to describe. His skin was paper thin, tan, and the muscles had a type of detail/ perfection I’ve never seen before or since. I was with some friends from high school who doubted that he wasn’t better than Robby and Mentzer and the rest based on photographs in magazines. After I saw him I had a total realignment about what bodybuilding was about and it isn’t weight scales and tape measures. He was just on a different level. When I think of bodybuilding I always think back to what I saw that day in 1980 and I’m still affected by it. I laugh to myself when I hear people think Zane was a natty. There is absolutely zero chance of anyone looking like him without chemical enhancement.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 Wow thats super interesting to hear man. Cool that you've stuck around to bodybuilding after all this time. I always had an ounce of hope and belief in Frank being natural, but judging by what you've seen with your own eyes, maybe thats different. Regardless, I would of never guessed that Frank excelled so much in that area. Truly remarkable if you ask me. That's awesome. Really goes to show how impactful Zane has been for bodybuilding. Would love to hear more tbh
Kurt Vonfricken i absolutely laugh it off when gym newbies said that you can get a physique like franks natty, he is 185-190 lbs at 5-7% BODYFAT while being 5’9, do you realise how much weight you need to lose in order to be that contest ready??? Some 200 lbs fatty gym bros who thinks they are 10% bf (who are actually 20%), “i will cut 10 pounds and ill look like frank zane”, no dude you need to cut at least least 40 lbs lmao.
Plus with the small joints that he has, 185-190 lbs 5’9 5-7% bf is HUGE. That is like 240 lbs if you go to most of fatty gym bros bodyfat (20-25%) and bulked up.
This is literally my all time fav bb youtube video
Same here. He's probably the most objective and thorough one on youtube
Check out Mark Max Muscle. I think he’s a little bit better although this channel is good.
I haven't even watched this yet, but got hyped as soon as I saw that spreadsheet of all the criteria! Nobody breaks down and analyses bodybuilding as well as you do, Love the videos man!
My only criticism is that the Olympia wins should be scored in a way that reflects their importance. If you give each Olympia title two points, it really separates out the field. It also breaks that tie between Phil and Dorian.
Shame the score cards arent all public, would have been lots of work but would have showed context, along with adding this to show the issues of some of Arnolds wins at the O when he won undisputed etc
@@CommonSenseBodybuilding I wouldn't because the level of competition was different. 1980s bodybuilders wouldn't stand a chance in the mid to late 90s and so on.
@@carlanderson2468 Except 90's guys who would probably crush todays lineup
@@dual7779 I agree 100% 👍
Solid breakdown. I don't think many would argue with the outcome.
I give a 10 for idea, execution and relative dominance, a 9.5 for analysis only because you missed some pro wins at now defunct organizations and an 11 for entertainment.
The look and the way we judge bodybuilding has changed so much over time, it's really difficult to compare bodybuilders from different eras. I think you have a pretty good system here to level the playing field. Although the Mr. Olympia is the most prestigious contest but its history has some politics around it that suggest that it has not properly recognized some of the greatest athletes competing at the time (Robby Robinson, Mike Mentzer, Flex Wheeler in particular) seem overlooked. There were some dominating and great bodybuilders before the Olympia (Steve Reeves and Reg Park in particular) that would seem to be in some contention for being ranked as GOAT despite existing before the Olympia. Still it's hard to argue with your final rankings. These are all awesome choices.
You are single handedly the best bb TH-camr out there
Yeah Arnold is the reason why Bodybuilding got more popular today and inspired a lot of people to workout
I am not sure about the weighting between titles and runner up. Surely, coming 1st should worth more than coming second? Jay got 4 from 1st but 6 from runner up? I personally would weight them differently.
Yeah, there's a little lack in weight differentiation here, but to be fair the more you weigh things differently, the more subjective it will have to get. I agree with this point completely though, there were a couple other categories that I would have weighed differently as well but none the less I'm impressed by this list.
Yes was thinking the same. I would have just awarded a half point for each runner up
@@johnjohnson9567 but at the end of the day: some points were dealt wrongly other places, some points emphazised on things that to some could have emphazised differently, some things shouldnt be measured on a 10 number scale, and you cant rank the top best solely on points. had jay not gotten those points on that occasion, he could have very arguably earned them on other occasions. that goes for all of them. all points aside: i gotta almost 100% agree with the overall ranking, and thats where i would have placed them aswell. at least the top 5/6, zane and oliva are probably the only ones i might change up a bit if i had to.
I liked having them weighed evenly, since it is very seldom viewed as a one man show in the olympia, so the effect of being in first or second for creating your legacy could be fairly similar.
The runner up favored jay too much
Just a bit unfair give 1 point for second place, who got 8 times 2nd place and 0 wins would have same points of someone who won 8 times. Half point would be better
Yeah the scores shouldn't all be given equal weighting but it was complicated enough as it is
@@Tomn8er come on Tom you give more points to Jay than Haney for that
@@Jesus_Garcia25 that was also my point!! Well spotted 😉
@@jesusconde4317 hahaha😊👌
@@Jesus_Garcia25 at the end of the day, some other points could have been dealt very differently. if that "olympia titles" score needed to change up a bit, some other scores arguably needed it too, and at the end the result would probably add up and end with the same outcome. you cant decide who is the GOAT solely by points, its way too subjective - you would have to argue why some things weigh more than others, things that are too improportiante to be measured by giving out points from 1 to 10. and in all honesty (all points aside) the top 9 ranking would look more or less exactly like the one tom said, even if there hadnt been any point system. maybe it randomly just added up like that, some were only 0.5 points away from eachother, but at least it shows the list is a good indicator for the overall ranking, bcs the list ended up the way it probably should have been. His system takes a lot of things into consideration, and if jay maybe shouldnt have gotten a point there, others shouldnt have gotten this point here. at the end it would look more or less the same, bcs this is probably the closest we come to a precise rank of them, even if there hadnt been any points.
While I disagree with some of the points, overall this video is extremely thorough and well composed. Great job! Enjoyed watching!
The King Coleman, Easy victory, Lightweight baby!
Ain’t nothing but a peanut!
@@ddub5074 YEAH BUDDYYYYY!!!!
OW man I've been begging and waiting for this! It feels like Christmas morning. Easily one of my favorite BB vids next to your best posers series. This was so indepth that it will be the benchmark for anyone daring to match it. Love the breakdown and subjective scoring, even use of mathematics. Second place should be award half the points of first place Mr.O and 3rd place 1/3 points of one Mr. O win. I think this pretty much validates most people's ranking of BB goats.
Loved to see uncrowned Mr. O series.
One of the best analysis I’ve seen for bodybuilding, with very good criteria.
Ronnie, in 1999, is the unbeatable version. He is the goat, of course.
Nobody wants to actually look like that though
100% not, not even remotely close bud
@@nealkelly9757 pro bb is not a beauty contest even Arnold was pretty massive for his era
Lots of people want to look like that. Tons of people are in the gym, taking gear trying to achieve this results or something even close to it. When you walk around you like that people give you a lot of respect and girls give you a lot of attention.
@@nealkelly9757 ask today's amateur body builders or may be you can ask pros too.
I agree with almost everything, I would have had Olympia wins in its own category but idk if that would have made a difference but I think this is was as objective as it can get (for bodybuilding) I knew Arnold wouldn't be one even suprised he was two, thought Lee Haney would finish a lot higher like he did cuz he's very underappreciated.
Good stuff Tommy boy!!!!! I have never been so completely entertained for nearly half an hour without once feeling the urge to double tap forward. This kind of knowledgeable content combined with solid editing and strait forward unbiased commentary is what's going to make you the number one producer of this kind of content and push you past nick and....... is there anyone else? Lol.... I'm a long time NS&P fan but after this one you may be the new top spot holder for me. Thank man!!!! Just awesome!!!
Sorry man I couldn't leave it at that. The more I think about it everyone else is out there selling their souls and chasing gossip and drama and you are putting out this kind of timeless and tasteful stuff. My hat goes off to you sir👏
2:18 I know this isn’t the main focus but holy shit, I thought Kevin had the best shoulders but Ronnie is absolutely killing him. Ronnie is so great, his “okay” body parts were rivaling some of the best of others.
His delts often took over in the side chest
Ronnie's certainly has a bigger delts but kevin has a better shape imo
GOAT
So you take just one picture and make a conclusion ignoring hundreds more?
Ya Ronnie's muscle bellies on his abdomen.....like a biological frog.
One thing id definitely disagree with is ranking arnold above haney in aesthetics. Great video though!
Arnold has some really out of balance body parts. His back, delts, triceps, thighs, and forearms weren’t in the same league as his pecs, biceps, and calves.
Yeah, Haney got shafted on this video.
God damn I love this channel ... Takes it seriously and gives the time needed to make any list or ranking .... Even though I would put Phil higher in some cases ,... J agree with your list .... Well done brother
Can't remember the last time I enjoyed a bodybuilding video that much. Great job dude
Such an underrated channel, idk why you only have 50k subs, you deserve more dude. always look forward to every post you make. all love and more support for you Tom!
Tbh i think that mr o runner ups should be like 0,5 points i dont think its fair that jay should get more points than better bodybuilders
I agree on that, thought the same thing!
Attack Tyronecopter “better” 🧐
Jay has more points than Ronnie, and Haney, that doesn't make sense
Do you know how many times Jay came runner up in the O? 😱
Nathan Legg ronnie, dorian and lee were better bodybuilders than jay in my opinion. I am a fan of jay but many on this list were better than him
Love the video, and love the result too! There were some parts where I disagreed with you... like some parts where I would have put more points for some, less for some on others, and that is exactly why this kind of exercice is very well done! Because if you keep adding metrics, the real GOAT will simply rise to its natural position. You can't argue against the whole chart!
This work is just simply underrated. Only a true bodybuilding fan would do this.
And the result was damn accurate .
Man I just wish you success . You gonna be way bigger than you are in days to come.
Bodybuilders I wanna look like:
-Frank Zane
-Yeah that's it
arnold as well
Mike Menzer had the best body of all bodybuilders
pretty much. if i had to build a perfect human, thats almost exactly what i would make
@Casdom Domcas what?you mean the ninja turtles?
Cause your too weak to comprehend for Dorian and ronnie
This was by far the most broken down detailed video ever with the photo evidence during the ratings. Im super impressed. Also like how you ranked them by olympia wins. Nice work. Prob took a while to do this. Thank you!
Man this video was nuts. Loved it. Only channel to bring this type of content. Also, as an English teacher, I love your diction, lol
You have been flying under the radar for way too long, Tom. Content like this is golden, really unparalleled by anything else bodybuilding out here! GREAT VIDEO! 👌🙏
I'd like to see a video like this for the remaining Mr. Olympia winners - Franco, Samir, Dickerson, etc. I mean it wouldn't be a GOAT video of course, but it would be cool just to see what kind of scores they would get for a lot of these categories.
It would be called baby goats video.
great video. gotta love the Tomn8er!
Great analysis and the dashboard is really impressive. Even though there may be some who disagree, I strongly believe Ronnie Coleman is the "Greatest Of All Time"
Your comprehensiveness is incredible. Love it!
This was a great video. Only thing I would change is make Olympia runner ups worth half the points or Olympias double. I would probably do making runner ups half the points because doubling it would be unfair since Arnold had many years where the title was just given to him or was unjustly given (1980) and Oliva also had a couple years where there was no competition. But jay cutler having a higher Olympia score than Ronnie is unfair once you consider the fact Ronnie has double his Olympia wins.
Wow this is literally the coolest bodybuilding video I’ve watched in a long time!
I think even if you ask the bodybuilders to vote for a goat, Ronnie's name would still come out on top.
This is the single most comprehensive bb GOAT comparison ever made. Thank you!!
Really nice job Tom. I first started following bbing in 1979 when I picked up a Muscle Builder Power with Robbie Robinson on the front. So, I have seen basically all the eras over the last 40 years. Most other channels are just regurgitating gossip and they really aren't students of the game with respect to truly assessing physiques and couldn't judge one out of a paper bag in reality.
This was entertaining as hell! Thank you for putting so much work into this
After watching it, it didn't disappoint. I would say it's your ultimate video, to me, you're the best BB youtuber, you have best shape vids, contest reviews, best body parts, and creative vids like this, arnold is overrated, the ever controversial partial rep vid, the broscience defense vid as a follow up. Thanks a lot for the content. I also think ronnie is the GOAT, 98/99/01 arnold and 03 are peak mass and conditioning, with very few lacking body parts, and very freaky features.
No doubt one of the best if not the best video you’ve done
I love all of the conditions taken in this ranking of bodybuilders because you know a lot of bodybuilders are gonna get points taken, like Ronnie Coleman and his horrible posing, or lack of leg muscles of the golden era guys, very complete ranking
I think many of the golden era guys had great leg development. Arnold had calves as good as his biceps and pecs.
This is the best GOAT analysis in bodybuilding that I've seen. Well done sir!
Before you were about to comment on "Impact & influence" I thought that Arnold should get an 11. And sure enough - he did :)
You really did a great Job with Ranking all the different aspeks, awesome man!
Good effort man , Iam an Engineer and I would prefer if you could assign certain percentage for each catagory and the total at the end doesn’t exceed 100 , if the number in certain categories exceed the percentage intended, you just do a simple transfer to get the score out of the percentage that you assigned. This will give the importance of each category its true value since now some category are higher than they should be since they have many scoring raw. I hope you got my point. Thanks for your efforts. You are a special person.
An amazing scale, what a perfect way to place the guys! The reason I honour you this is simply because you are honest, yet bang on when judging my friend-)
Facts not emotions you speak honestly from, and I totally love it.
Thank you again my friend
Unbelievable effort mate. Well done.
Amazing video Tom! A great love letter to bodybuilding and I was waiting all day from work to watch this masterpiece!
Props for setting this up. Must have taken a lot of time and effort.
You really nailed this one on the head, great work Tom!
This has ALWAYS been my exact ranking for all of these guys funny enough, kinda spooky
Lmfao he was acting a fool raising the roof! I had to replay that i burst out laughing.
Loved the video! I have always felt like Lee Haney was #2 but I can’t complain about him coming behind the Governator.
Hello tomn8ter, im watching u since u started your channel, back in the days when even the LUI was still around. U did a great video on the topic "GOAT" I love the approach and system u used. And the outcome is clear, Ronnie, no matter how you slice or dice it, with that many variables, and still Ronnie comes on top. Great to see your channel grow so much and your video's are keeping better.
Arnold Will Always Be The Goat Of Bodybuilding, The Goat Of Action Movies, The Goat Of One Liners. Deal With It!
The GOAT of showing up to contests out of shape.
If it wasn't for Arnold no one would ever empbrace bodybuilding
That doesnt make the goat....that makes it the best ambassador and promoter of the sport and thats great.
But that doesnt make it the best bodybuilder of all time
'Signature poses' would have made an awesome criteria. Love the content though!
If you put the runner ups title you get that Jay was a better bodybuilder than Ronnie (when you combine the Olympia wins and runner ups title you get a score of 10-9) which is clearly not the case since most of those losses can be attributed to Ronnie
I think you did a great job and that big Ron really did deserve it because he quite literally gave his life to the sport.
This video was extremely enjoyable for me, many thanks for the analysis! My feeling is that Frank Zane was neglected from the standpoint of posing and impact, on the other hand Ronnie Coleman was overrated in the field of aesthetics (e.g. Dorian Yates had extremely good calves with no bubble gut and got only 6, Ronnie had bad calves and big gut, in spite of that he received 7) and individual routines (I really do not like his dancing style during posing). Thanks again!
You deserve way more subs and views my man. Extremely detailed and informing. You are clearly passionate about the sport of Bodybuilding 💪 amen brotha 🙏
The problem I see is that every category counts the same. You can't have Olympias and Runner-ups to count the same.
Well obviously you can lol
The best, and most objective and thorough BB channel on youtube
Great content as always. There is one big mistake though. If Arnold is an 11 for impact and influence, then all of them are 1 or less, more like 0,1 or less, it is either that or dont even put arnold on that category.
It is like comparing Michael Jackson or The Beatles to a local band from your hometown.
That's true I probably should've given him a 15 or 20 and scored the others normally lol
Which is why Arnolds the goat. Not technically the best, but the influence and cult of personality. Same as MJ. I'd take Bron 1st pick all time, but MJ is still the goat.
@@benjaminwilson8807 music is overly subjective, although bodybuilding is subjective its much more defined than music. being famous as a musician doesnt automatically mean youre a better musician, being famous as a bodybuilder doesnt mean hes the best bodybuilder.
He should lose a point or 2 for showing up at the 1980 in less than top shape. I think it hurt his reputation and hurt the sport far more than it helped.
Benjamin Wilson um mj is not the case here. he is clearly a more dominant, skillfull and mentally strong basketball player compared to bron who once gave up and made the big3. well bron has clearly more longevity than mj and he had his some dominant moments that could maybe be compared with mj's , but he cannot beat mj in terms of clear dominance in either as an individual or as a team. mj was dominant as an individual throughout his whole career except at the wizards, but what makes mj special is that he started from the bottom and leaded his team to grow up and build a dynasty. bron also started from the bottom and lead his team to grow up, but he gave it up and that makes the clear difference in terms of mental strength of the two players. if you want to claim bron is better because of his statlines based on his longevity, i say this is basketball not baseball. in baseball, yeah that claim is right but in basketball, already there is karim who beats the hell out of mj in longevity but still remains behind mj. mj is the goat because of his dominance(both individual and team), his skills, his mental toughness, and his influence. bron is clearly behind mj when you consider those things that are important for basketball goat not baseball goat.
Your breakdowns are always spot on and unbiased from what I can tell. Already looking forward to your next video!
Great video man, keep 'em coming!
As a side note, it's a shame Ronnie destroyed his body being the best of all time... One could argue that it was the only way to do it, but the truth is we will never know, and I tend to perceive bodybuilding legends as someone like Arnold, Jay and Dorian, who gave it all at their prime, but knew how to pull back and stay healthy and inspiring.
Nah Ronnie could've mostly avoided it. His worst injuries occurred after he was already retired when he stubbornly refused to stop training like a maniac, even post-surgery. Dorian proved that it's possible to flip that switch back off.
Yes you should lose a few points if you spend your retirement in a wheelchair.
I knew that this was gonna be good before I even watched it. Great video
I'm glad to hear Sergio being talked about. Too often people think of him as the guy who lost to Arnold rather than the once-in-a-generation talent he was. His physique was way ahead of it's time. I think he's one of the few gifted enough that he would have stood out in any era.
Props to you man, excellent video with top quality content
Impressive work👏👏👏
My only critic is that someone like Haney (8 M.O. in a row) in the department of titles is at the bottom. You should have applied some kind of correction factorc for second places or minor titles.
In the 80's he was the number one star and influence by a mille.
On cover magazines for a decade every single Month.
And, by the way, something I do not think was represented properly in the influence department; He was the very first modern bodybuilder IMHO!
THANKS A LOT FOR THE VIDEO, TRULY ENJOYABLE!!!!!
I see Haney as the end of the Golden Era. Everything after him was mass monsters and bubble guts. People were dropping dead or coming close to dropping dead in the 90s from abusing diuretics.
Great video.... I don't think anyone should argue cze it is laid out so simple and thorough... Well done
There should by a demerit for flaws such as bubble gut
Also gyno
There are- aesthetics
I couldn't stop watching. This was very interesting. Great work man.
The Idea of this list is pretty great and I almost agree completely with the way you judged the respective categories, but one thing that doesn't really make sense in my eyes is that the points for 2nd place olympia are 1:1 with 1st place olympia placings. So Jay has the edge here with 10 points in total even though he only actually won 4 times. I would have given it something like a x0.5 or x0.7 multiplicator.
Себастьян Фишер This.
Realy good video and concept, dude. Most people don't realize how much time and effort you put into this video. You deserve a lot more subscribers. Next to RxMuscle, I'd say you rank at the top of bodybuilding channels. Coincidence? I think not. As you are Dave and probably the two smartest guys who cover this topic.
Much respect from Atlantic Canada.
i think Ronnie is one of the few (if not the only) who could win from from the generations above his. I know his reing was not so long ago, but putting in perpective, haney´s physique couldn´t beat dorian´s, dorian´s physique couldn´t beat ronnie´s, but ronnie´s best shape would beat jay and phill´s
TheLusianPopa Dorian has no chance beating Ronnie Coleman in 1999 and 2003. No chance.
Any versions of Dorian get destroyed by Ronnie’s 1998,1999 and 2001 ac
Yates wouldn't beat an 03 ronnie purely down to the fact that he would get outsized and outmuscled but remember that wasn't the best ronnie! He was massive, but so was his gut and his conditioning was non existent to that of 98! You can see it in his back, how watery it looks and his overall symmetry and proportions were awful. This isn't a knock on ronnie in anyway, he's one of my favourites.
Ronnies best physique was 98 and that's coming from ronnie himself, along with 01 Arnold Classic, purely down to the fact that they were almost identical physiques in terms of size, weight and conditioning. So if you put them against a 95 yates, yates would come out on top! 95 yates 257-60, ronnie in 98 was 247 I believe. Yates wins 4 out of the 7 compulsory poses..
(YATES WINS)
FLS
BLS
ST
A&T
(RONNIE WINS)
FDB
BDB
SC.
Ronnie in 98 was good enough for the win, but he barely beat an off flex wheeler. That physique is more beatable than an 03-05 one! Chris aceto said himself how impressive dorian was in person that year up close. Was like he had no skin his conditioning was that good A long with all that size and thickness too! I asked him in a recent Instagram live chat 95 yates vs 98 ronnie and he said yates beats him (just) so for the people that constantly go on about ronnie and the years he was apparently unbeatable, try backing it up with some kind of knowledge or criteria as to why.....
@TheLusianPopa its kind of subjective..but..no..Ronnie would destroy Yates.Legs alone would crush him.
@@scottish__beard8856The truth remain that Ronnie best version/year will beat any of Yates prime.😂
People mostly describe Ronnie as a different breed entirely when it comes to body building.
Ronnie look like a monster/beast😂.
excellent video, for me it's Haney, because he has that crazy combination of structure, muscularity, and aesthetics. Unlike other Olympia winners, it's either or.
My favourite will always be Frank Zane. That v-taper is great.
What about shawn ray or flex wheeler? Or brian Buchanan
I really like the largely objective approach to this. So many GOAT videos like this are made by guys who are obviously biased, either because they like a certain guy (Arnold fanboys usually), or because they like certain training regimens (if you see Dorian, Mentzer, and Casey Viator at the top of someone's list, you will learn that the list was compiled by a HIT training aficionado). Also there are some guys who appear to have the ability to IGNORE about half the body, just making their picks based on great chest and back.
Great Vid, Honestly U should replace the judges in the Mr O
Next vid: do one for the best 1 time Mr O, Samir, Dickerson, Shawn, and Brandon on this exact same format
Not a bad idea
Or best runner up that never won:Mentzer, Robinson, ferrigno, Gaspari, Ray, Levrone
Very well explained, thoroughly analyzed and no bias at all. Great job Tom!
I can live with those rankings ! Although I personally feel that Arnold had a little too much influence which benefitted himself in accumulating his 7 Titles, he makes up for it by having influenced the sport more than anyone ever.
Everyone has had their share of criticisms and compliments, with some more than others, which more or less cancels themselves out.
It’s funny, because if you were to do another one of these videos with the bodybuilders who never won a Mr.O Title, they’d almost all come from the Yates/Coleman era. The consistency of the competition back then was simply spectacular. And this is most likely why the 90’s is seen as the best era ever.
Cheers
True, arnold is lucky he had alot of influence
@Jojo1113 We'll never forget what the IFBB done to Nubret that one year.. Politics were definitely at play during Arnolds reign.
I lost interest after the1980-1981 Olympia contests. I believe the 90s might have seen the best competitors because of the drugs. Weren’t more people dying right after competitions back then? I think people might have wised up but perhaps not.
Kurt Vonfricken Well, Arnold’s era wasn’t much better than the era’s that came after. Read this article. It’s unreal.
www.chaosandpain.com/tips/just-how-badly-do-you-want-to-win-not-as-badly-as-pete-grymkowski-did/
I’d say the recreational drugs are the biggest killers. Although, diuretics and insulin are also not great if you don’t have a full time personal doctor.
People did whatever worked for them back then. It’s just that nowadays, there’s more things that work. It really boils down to that.
It seems the top bodybuilders all stay relatively healthy after they retire. It’s the bodybuilders who push the limits too far yet can’t achieve their goals that go off the deep end.
@Jojo1113 a very controversial win 1980, and pretty gifted a sandow. Yeah he deserved. Everybody likes him bc he is a moviestar
This video is incredible. You out did yourself bro
Arnold was not thick-waisted! He was wide-waisted. Indeed, when Arnold turned to the side, his waist damn near disappeared, making his upper body mass absolutely overwhelming and awe-inspiring.
Then you looked for leg muscularity but couldn’t find it
@@93Beefcake Pfffy, back then leg day was for losers!
Waist wide and legs small plus he had judging in his back pockets
Man I LOVE the thought you put into this content. Fantastic channel, thank you
Great list and hard to argue when you put it down clearly on your spreadsheet. Even though in my heart Lee Haney is the Goat, Great job
Great vid man! Loved the categories and breakdown . You have the best bodybuilding channel on TH-cam!
What’s amazing about body building is it’s almost always going to be about the subjective impact the athletes and their physiques have on us, the fans. We’re all into the sport because we can find a physique that speaks to what WE find aesthetic, what WE find impressive, and what WE want to emulate. This discussion of the GOAT should not be about heated debate, but a celebration of a sport that purely exists to empower others
Great video man, I enjoyed it from start to end.
Great video, I believe Olivia is the most overlooked champion of all time. Can you imagine how great he would have been with the training and nutrition of today? He was literally training in the dark ages and eating that way as well. Plus they didn’t really have a lot of posing info to refer to. He and Larry Scott were kinda of the pro bodybuilding pioneers. When you look at Olivia’s physique and realize it’s from the late 60’s it blows the mind how he developed it with such primitive equipment
Olivia had the best genetics of any bodybuilder and if he trained like Dorian and had the same mindset, he would've blown the doors of Arnold or Ronnie! His 28 in waist would've been even smaller at 27in and with Dorian's grainy conditioning he would've been unbeatable!!
Dont forget the steroids/hormons/peptide knowledge.
He lived in the era where even the pros only knew the bare minimum. Dbol+primo and that's it.
A bodybuilder of their age would have unparalelled conditioning hooked them up with some tren/mtren/mast etc
Oliva*
I loved this. Although subjective, trying to incorporate fairness and many other factors with a quantified scale it was way better than sheer like/dislike. Great video.
Sergio is a G.O.A.T in my eyes. There's no changing that. However, props have got to be given when they're due. Ronnie comes out on top and I can see why. I like the list entirely for each of them brought something new to the table in terms of being a champion. Sergio with his muscularity (at the time) and Victory pose. Arnold with the impact and legacy incomparable to others. Zane with the aesthetics and beautiful posing (not saying he was the greatest at it, but was exceptional). Haney with maintaining a champion's physique with little flaw (not to mention breaking the record while going undefeated with 8 wins at the Olympia). Dorian with his ground breaking mass and conditioning ushering in a new era. Ronnie with taking mass and conditioning to the next level while keeping it as proportioned as possible. Dexter with the longevity (which in my opinion has done it better than anyone else). Jay with coming back to reclaim the title after taking an L (which is still yet to be replicated). And finally Phil with the 3D muscles and persona he gives to being the Mr. Olympia. All of them deserve to share the G.O.A.T status because each part of them could construct the ultimate bodybuilder. Just a thought 🤷🏽♂️
@TheLusianPopa I see what you mean. With those genetics, he was blessed without the shadow of a doubt. I think he tried to be a bit more on the health side. And if that is the case, then he has my respect even more.
This is quality content in its purest form! I just simply love the videos man!
Once you hit the Olympia with a bubble gut; you lost me. Just no excuse. Lee Haney is my choice; what an amazing physique from head to toe; not to mention the professionalism and class.
prewsky I am with you there sir. I had hoped Haney would fare better as he is such a class act and incredible physique. Ronnies bubble gut is super lame but I can respect the Tominator and how he got to this conclusion.
You only see the bubble gut when they are relax. You hardly ever see it in the mandatories. And tbh as a bodybuilder ronnie obv destroys haney, and has imo a better legacy than him. Haney had a weak line up and had weak legs compared to other BBs in his lineup. Nonetheless both are greats. Ronnie is the goat
This video is just insane man good job
At least jay was more aesthetic than ronnie, having almost no symptoms of bubble gut
That's mostly why I gave him the edge lol
@@Tomn8er but you should put jay in ahead of ronnie in aesthetics
Btw nice work done
Really agreed with your decision
Keep it up!!!
Riffat Islam young Ronnie was more aesthetic than any version of Jay. The version in 1998 was probably the most aesthetic mass monster that has ever graced the stage.
@@heimtime_lifting and 2009 version of jay is the most aesthetic of any mass monster
RONNIE was only aesthetic in his early 2 or 3 olympia wins
Jay always looked more aesthetic except 07 and 08
@@riffatislam2003 no he didnt, jay always looked blocky, his v taper wasnt a pronounce as ronnie
Amazing video. Anything where Ronnie comes out on top makes my day!