Is Pep Guardiola really the worst thing to happen to football?
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A debate is happening in football which centres around Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola. The Spaniard is just off a treble winning season, but is being called out by current Brazil manager Fernando Diniz for his approach to managing games through positional principles.
Diniz believes football should be more ‘apositional’ and allow more freedom for players on the pitch. But is his approach the right one? Jon Mackenzie takes a look at just how negative an effect Guardiola has really had on football management.
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#PremierLeague #ManCity #mcfc
Pep's genius stems from him not being complacent. So many managers find a style/philosophy that suits them and refuse to adapt. Pep still holds his core principles, but wants to constantly grow them to fit the toughest environments.
lmfao. I think you mean having unlimited cheating transfer funds
@@InstigatorDJThey spent less than Man U and Chelsea since his arrival.
@@jonatanolsen37 True but they already had an established squad and needed to add 1-2 each season while other teams like Arsenal had to rebuild
It stems from having a massive financial advantage, fair or otherwise, over opponents. Always has.
@@ASWINAR-dm5hoLOL. Pep transformed the whole squad when he arrived. It was like a total rebuild. If you remember, the backline back then (2016) was Clichy, Kolarov, Kompany and Sagna. And that team finished 4th. The only one remaining from the pre-2016 team is KDB.
This is great - Jon, if you are reading this - this is Tifo at it's best, using detailed football tactics and nuance to illustrate a much bigger, more 'intellectual' point, rather than getting lost in the weeds of "if this player goes here then this player goes here" overanalysis of the tactics themselves.
Cringe clickbait title though. They should be bigger than this
The hand gestures for example from 6:45 and 7:35 were really distracting I had to look away to continue listening. He kept doing the double grab and hook like he was pulling in fishing nets. Vary it a little, man, use one hand, put a finger out and whatever.
Jon's sooo good, I can't think of anyone who's not actively working for a sports organization that is this clever about football.
@@msonix- he's great, but for me they can nerd out just a bit too much sometimes.
thats the whole point of this channel, I love it. If you want more surface level football analysis you can listen to podcasts where theyre not reading scripts and dont have as much research. Tifo football found a niche and should keep it that way, what you are complaining about is the whole reason why they became famous in the first place.@@RebelWisdom
When he's talking about "Some coaches do not care", I think he is talking about the great English manager super Frank Lampard. Absolute legend.
"Right, I want the entire team to bomb up the pitch and play fluid attacking football. Who needs a defense anyway haha, no but seriously, I'll just buy two tall centrebacks and hope for the best."
Don't forget the great English manager Steven Gerrard
Prime ole ball "go out and express yourself"
you cant just "hope"... you need to pray too @@TLGProduktions
@@ebnest123 legendary coach of al ettifucky
Guardiola always evolves as a manager over the years. Many managers tend to stagnate and can't handle the ever changing climate of football, Guardiola adapts and evolve. Further cementing him as the greatest manager ever. I have major respect for him.
lol if you’re talking about adapting and evolving, that was Sir Alex’s greatest trait. He evolved his teams and their tactics at Aberdeen and at United across 4 different decades, that’s 40 years. And he went out a winner in 2013 after winning the league with Danny Welbeck Jones Anderson Cleverly and Smalling.
Ferguson has had a significantly longer carrer though and its unfair to compare them right now
@stratos5554 i agree it is unfair. Especially since pep pretty much gets any players he wants no matter what team he is on.
@@The_Antagonist07lol. Are you faulting him for being a coach?
Saf jose are adaptive coaches. Winners but no technical legacy. Pep wenger sachhi may not win as much but will leave a bigger impact on how the game is played.
I can't talk for Diniz's previous teams, but national teams are better geared to playing in an apositional/"freer" way. Players are only with their national teams for 2ish weeks at a time so having their individual qualities come through is in his interests. Pep etc have more time to drill positional play into their teams so having a "stricter" way of playing is then in their interests over a 50/60 game season
Very strong point this.
With so little time to build chemistry and knowing your fellow teammates tendencies, wouldn't a structured setup work better?
@@coreytohme9861as a Brazilian I’m excited about what Diniz is doing. I have just watched 1 hour ago Fluminense (Diniz is coaching both Fluminense and Brasil’s national team) beat Internacional in the Libertadores semifinals. He reached the final with a team I can say for sure no other coach could. More than that, he has restored some players confidence and style of play and is making football more fun to watch.
I’d say that his style is as hard to learn as an strict positional play. Specially because sometimes his asking the players to do the exact opposite of what they learned all their life to do. But I’m hoping that with time players will adapt well. For me looks very brazilian haha
Problem with this line of reasoning is that all these players spend the majority of their time playing in positional systems in European clubs. At times in Diniz's two Brazil games you saw how alien his system is to the various players (Rodrygo kept trying to take up wide positions, Guimaraes kept trying to switch the play all the time and so on).
Fact is that most players have internalised positional philosophy at this point to the extent that it would be easier for them to learn a new positional system than trying to fundamentally rethink their entire approach to the game.
I'm not against Diniz's style, and i havent watched a ton of Brazil under him. But from what i have seen, which was the prev two WC qualifier matches, he drew against Venezuela and then lost to Uruguay (my background) 2-0. If his style is good/has potential, maybe it will just take a bit more time for the Brazilian players to adapt to it since their used to how things are in Europe.
When Tifo is brave and does deep dives into the philosophy (style) and business (trades, transfers, and financials) of football they unleash their full potential ❤
Being Brazilian and a supporter of São Paulo, a team that was coached by Diniz for almost two years, I think that your last point was absolutely spot on. Until now, with every team that he has coached, there's always a type of cycle where the freshness of the appositional football starts to give place to the frustrations of the supporters. People start to get angry at some inconsistencies, frustrated with the "saidinha" (building up from the back every single damn time), and finally question his way of justifying his losses.
At the end, the sport and it's supporters will determine whose philosophical approach is right. I hope he gets better and better, I can only imagine how fun it would be watching this type of football with the level of players at the Seleção, or even in a Champions League squad...
Tava 10 pontos na frente bicho...
a vida é dura, tricolor
O cara ganhou 01 carioca e já tá aparecendo no Atletic como o anti-Guardiola. Incrível o hype nesse senhor
@@portocaiofs Sim, por causa de sua filosofia de trabalho e método de jogo. No entanto, como o próprio vídeo argumenta, nada importa mais que o resultado
É, mas eu acho que é mais do que esse papo de "there's always a type of cycle where the freshness of the appositional football starts to give place to the frustrations of the supporters". Nós sabemos que a cultura brasileira é diferente (meio sem regras) e que o Diniz naquela época era mais estressado em campo do que é hoje. Então, botar a culpa no jogo aposicional na minha opinião é um pouco superficial.
Outro ponto é que os dois em questão tem contextos de vida totalmente diferentes. O Diniz começou no Audax (talvez tenha sido em um time até menor) e já o Pep começou no Barcelona com um Messi, Henry, Etoo, Iniesta e Xavi.
E o outro ponto é que o Pep tá a mais tempo na estrada, e sempre com times ótimos e praticamente dinheiro infinito. Então, acho que tudo isso precisa ser levado em consideração.
I think it’s worth noting that while Pep’s tactics are still very much marked by positional play, he has transformed a lot of his tactics in a way that increasingly isolate and rely on the individual player’s skills for the systems upside. Press resistance was always a big factor, but now the dribbling and carrying ability of his team is of another level while on the defensive side one on one defending is arguably more important than ever. In the past it felt like positional play and constant ball rotation (a la tiki taka) was always the first option and now it feels like it’s more focused on the individual to solve problems. I find this approach extremely entertaining to watch, especially compared to more suffocating styles Pep played like at Bayern (80% possession passing back and force in a U around the opposition box, yawn). That said, positional play is the backbone that supports such a system and I think it’s clear that the ends justify the means. That said, I love Diniz style and I feel like on the international stage it could shine given the typically simplistic or defensive tactics employed by most countries.
To be fair the U was always he wanted to avoid or better hate it.His Biography "Mr. Guardiola" mentioned it on several game days during his Bayern spell.
Personally, I consider the U thingy (at Barca, not at Bayern), the trademark of Pep's style. I never yawned at it, since all through his career, when the U happened, there was the implacable certainty that his teams would eventually score and win. The only bad thing about the U and Pep's style overall is the endless passing without actually doing anything significant in the game in terms of goals - but he's not at fault for that, as he repeatedly said when asked. It was also risky since the team would be exposed to counterattacks, so it depended on having key reliable players too.
Jon! When you said Jack Grealish probably didn't grow up dreaming of playing positionally made me think about how Fernando Diniz's style matches the history and culture of football in Brazil. The countries top players grew up playing street football and credit a lot of their ability to it, with quick passes, tight spaces, narrow dribbling lanes, it reflects the way Diniz coaches. I can imagine that adds a lot of comfort for the players compared to sticking them in a positional role that has them playing out of their comfort zone. I imagine if you came up playing in a British Academy that taught and developed you in positional play, you may be more comfortable in that same way. I think there is something really touching about this idea, beyond the fact that winning is more important than aesthetics. It's clear that Diniz winning with the style he plays will be more important to Brazilians than winning in a "European" way. Very interesting topic, and I'm curious to see how Diniz's squad perform!
as a brazilian i can't agree more
In hypothesis yeah, but great part of brazilian players are in europe and quite used to its style. Rodrygo is suffering a lot to implement Diniz's game.
The constant re-invention of playstyle makes Guardoila a genius tactician, If you can't handle that , you're not cut out to play with the big boys
If who can’t handle it? The players?
@@wespicedmemes Real Madrid
@@wespicedmemesCoaches some are stubborn and want to keep play their dinosaur tactics although they aren't working
where was those big boys and those great tactics when city needed many years with him to win ucl?
A genius tactician who needs millions and millions for singings from a sugar daddy using shady ways?
Jon is transcending the medium of TH-cam tactical breakdowns to make every video a deeply nuanced mini-essay on the interplay between football, culture, money, and philosophy. Very impressive to watch
I agree.
You can tell how enthusiastic John was about this one. Takes me back to his substack when he was a recovering doctor of philosophy applying philosophical ideas to football while trying to write a biography of Bielsa…
Is that all true about John? That is so awesome haha. I'd love to check out those substack pieces
THIS IS INCREDIBLE. Tactics. Drama. Philosophy. Politics. Rhetoric and the study thereof. Just absolutely amazing. One of the best videos I’ve ever watched. More like this please!
Been waiting for Tifo to talk about Diniz! He is an outlier among coaches who are at the top level, I hope to see a more apositional or relationist style of football at the top level at football.
John did an audio-only podcast over a year ago about it with the guy who coined the term relationism
Umm... Ancelotti? Mourinho?
Ancelotti
Ancelotti and Mourinho have being doing this for years. Nothing new
As a Brazilian who watches all of Diniz's Fluminense games, you are wrong, his style is more similar to Guardiola's than you imagine, his team usually has 60 or 70% possession And he spends the entire match exchanging passes from the defense but crowding several players around the ball Or even keeping the wingers wide open like against Olímpia
Can we get more Diniz content, please? Could we get a more detailed analysis of how his tactics have played out in specific games? Pep is brilliant and I know that positional play is the meta right now so you have to talk about it a lot. But I am so desperate for in-depth content on pretty much anything that isn't positional play.
The purist football has a great video on Diniz' style of play.
Considering unsubscribing from Tifo because they just cannot help themselves from publishing Pep video after Pep video. It’s an obsession.
@@sleeepingpillsthey're not obsessed with pep. They're a company and they need views to make money, pep is popular and will get clicks. It's that simple.
@@sleeepingpillsalso, they've made 3 Pep videos out of the last 28. Hardly 'obsessed'
@@sleeepingpills He is by far the best manager in the world, his teams are always winning and at the same time he has the capability to reinvent the way that the team plays. Do you want them to make video about Ten Haag losing streak, what insanity
Brazil didn't start adopting European ideas recently, and it wasn't Guardiola specific style that they adopted. It started long ago. The 1994 World Cup-winning team is the perfect example.
Not really. Brasil has been way behind tactically. Just a couple years ago every team was still defending deep and playing for free kicks.
@@russellward4624, and so every team in Brazil started watching and copying Manchester City? OK... Anyway, you missed the point. 🤣🤣🤣
You have to rate Guardiola as one of the best ever and I'm not sure we can blame him for the direction modern football has taken despite being hugely influential.
Having said that, I haven't enjoyed football as a spectator nearly as much over the past 10-15 years as players have had less and less autonomy. I can see the influence on younger players, even at amateur level, who are fitter, more direct and less lateral thinking (I don't think modern boots help either, but that's another issue). There absolutely is extra importance on results as more and more money goes to fewer teams, European competition morphs to suit the richest clubs and the idea of fair competition is practically destroyed. If not for some clever branding and commercialisation, I don't think people would be as enthusiastic as they were about the state of the game 25 years ago. The emphasis from your average fan is on the "elite" teams, players and results between them, entirely dismissing anything else as not good enough.
I hope we see alternatives that will allow players to flourish the way the likes of Baggio, Pele, Zidane and Maradona did in the past. The most important quote in football also implies results are only part of the equation: "Football without fans is nothing."
Blame foreign investments for it. Club football is no longer about local support, it's about international support. A big club's main source of funds is now no longer from local fans/owners, it's foreign investment firms and overseas fans watching it from their TVs and mobiles.
Umm Messi? Let’s not be blind to modern greatness and individuality.
but look how many players Pep lost! Zynchenko, Jesus, Fernandinho (Guardiola wanted him to stay), Cancelo, Gudogan, Palmer, Mahrez, etc (just recently) But no problem he'll buy another one he seems don't have a great relation with players he's rubbish at it, and the money you criticizes helps him to keep being competitive... Of course he IS for sure a absolutely great coach but he has the resources to be. (the inspection is always on their tail for fear of breaking financial fair-play)
@@alefander4622 Most of the players he lost, he either lost because they were too old, or they went and joined another elite club. Football has essentially been monopolised by billionaires.
@@spinyslasher6586 billionaires such as the one who Pep works for 🤣 City also is an elite club, they left for other reasons like having fun doing what they like. You know that working with Pep is kinda stressful
I wish I was still doing Politics at uni so I could do a dissertation titled "An Exploration of Brazilian identity, Freedom and Neo-colonialism through the lens of Relationist Football Tactics"
Tony Yeboah. What a player. His goal vs Wimbledon is my fave goal EVER
City vs Madrid last season at Etihad was Joga Bonito but the exact fixture at Bernabeu was a tactical chess game so cagey with 2 out of box goals. And that was the highest stage of football in UCL semi finals wich shows each game depending on the stage and opposition and the stadium where you're playing needs a different approach and mindset. You can't win every game playing Joga Bonito nor can you always go on a tactical battle and hope for a win but more often than not your tactical approach with the right tools ( best possible players) will win the game.
The last coach who was that flexibel in European football won 3 Champions League in a row but was called lucky or glorified cheerleader. Never got the respect that he deserve
@@genocidejoeBecause that manager was overrated 😉.
@@genocidejoe won with perez tax lmao. I can still count how many important decisions went their way
@@saurabhdewangan4974 only a kid use the tax argument, go argue whit your sister littel kid.
@@genocidejoeinherited prime madrid 😂
The worst thing to happen to football is fans pretending they know what an exciting brand of football is. Think possession is good football and too many managers trying to copy pep with less than half his understanding of that way of football.
And with the managers having nowhere near the amount of talent
And then Pep gets the blame for football going towards a more positional style of play instead of blaming the lesser coaches who just want to copy Pep
Every sport is going to have that coach with a style that influences how the game is played.
In basketball you have Phil Jackson, in American football Jimmy Johnson and Vince Lombardi, in college American football Bobby Bowden and Steve Supierrer and the list goes on. In the case of Pep l, he's the new Johan Cruyff
Dont compare Phil Jackson to Pep. Pep actually knows how to adapt.
@@caseyisaacs2661 please re-read my post..in no way did I compare Pep to anybody but Johan Cruyff.
Pep is a protege of Cruyff so the comparison draws itself, but I think Pep's style have become more fluid over the years. He can absolutely change the entire way a team functions overnight, which Cruyff never really tried. Pep himself became more "apositional".
the pep of modern basketball is kerr
Who the hell are these people
Well, I think that the argument of teams being seem only over their ability to win is slight twisted. There can be only one winner. Brazil lost the 1982 World Cup, however, most people remember the Brazilian Team than the Italian winners. The same can be said for so many Dutch sides. Memorable, but not winners. Perhaps there is some bias on the analysis that winning is everything. Winning is important, but definitely not everything that remains in history.
Winning is not the most important thing, but it's the only thing that counts. While many will debate on Zidane VS Rui Costa, nobody can dispute Real's winning 5 Champions Leagues in a period of 2014-2022 as a Dynasty.
I have asked this before but with Ipswich beating Southampton last night and still being 2nd in the championship after only just getting promoted into the league, could you make a video about them? They're a club with such great history, their manager is interesting, they're all we've got in Suffolk, it could be a great video
If my Football Manager save is correct, Ipswich should win the Champions League in about 4 years 🤔🤔🤔
I am extremely skeptical that Diniz's tactics can work at the highest level. Sure it might be great from an attacking perspective, but the lack of a clear structure could be fatal defensively.
Different people learn football in different ways.
When we say we shouldn't copy the European way, it it's not to say that the European way doesn't work - is more about that way not maximazing the specific strengths of our players.
The "best" way to play and win games depends on what kind of players you have, so not following Europe in that way is not about national pride or any aesthetic preference, is about recognizing that maybe the difference in style of player results in different "best" ways to play and win games.
In Brazil, playing in improvised, irregular, crowded spaces is the way we learn the game, so the line of thought is that our players are much more suited to a relational style of play that thrives on the skills developed in these environments.
Will that hypothesis prove itself true? Lets find out
This has to be truly the best Tifo IRL video I’ve ever seen. Incredibly laid out, well done.
Diniz is playing a very specific game. He is presenting himself as the "saviour" of Brazilian football, and the "guardian" of the "traditions" of Brazilian football.
He sounds more like a politician than a coach.
Lol😂😂
The Great Brazilian Hope 🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️
Make Brazil great again!
What exactly is wrong with that? Trying to maintain a strong football identity instead of getting lost in the crowd is as old as football tactics itself
Actually hes not anything that you said, he never put himself as a saviour or anything, nit even in Brasil he is an unanimous choice, its the european midia (it includes this video, and some other talking about him that are creating this image if him)
Diniz looks like he could be Gabriel Martininellis dad
Guardiola has been dominating the so on called “best league in the word” and they get mad because they can’t beat him so that’s why they present the idea of him ruining football which is bullshit
Playing out from the back is the worst thing to happen to football at least from a spectators perspective. Watching defenders pass it back and forth constantly throughout the game will make anyone fall asleep.
I actually like this philosophical aspect of football. I remember talking to my friend about how Klopp was playing "robotic" football, and that it sucked the human aspect of the game. I told him that Pep would likely play this way in the future if he wanted to win the Champions League, and here we are.
For me personally, I think big money investments in football have kinda ruined football (lol a Chelsea fan to talk like that). It's just soulless at times. Kinda like what the music industry is doing with the so-called industry plants.
I kinda appreciate what Germany have done with their "no-foreign-big-investment" owning a German club. Yes, I love to see my team win trophies, but you know what? I love football too. This hoarding of possession, players being predictable--it really sucks the soul out of the game for me.
The channel “Football Made Simple” had an amazing video about Fernando Diniz’s Fluminese team months ago. He’s always noticing tactical trends months before everyone else!
Having been a kid myself many years ago and seeing the way kids play now - mostly due to Pep's influence - is proof enough that the man has done more for football than most.
There are several problems with this video:
1- 6:43 "free" is not such a moral concept as he obviously was talking about freedom of movement
2- 10:00 and plenty of coaches and clubs are judged by the aesthetics of their games. People forget that football is only popular because of its entertainment value and if your playstyle is boring people will be annoyed. That is the reason why Tottenham replaced Comte with Ange. When people know they're not winning the title they want to at least be entertained. That is also the reason why Diniz was chosen to coach Brazil. There are other coaches with better results but people wanted to see his unique and entertaining style of football.
3- Diniz isn't really trying to push the "me vs pep" idea. It is more of something that the media is trying to sell by exhaustively comparing anyone to pep.
This argument could also relate to the international vs club manager, and what tactics either manager might find success with in the time they have access to the players.
I'd say the closest an international team has ever been to club football was the 08-12 Spain team.
I think in 3-5 years we will start to see blended positional/relational tactics when the most tactically aware managers have had time to teach both concepts to their players. In ten years time, I think we will see academy players graduating with both ideas ingrained. Eventually tactics will be mixed and new patterns of play will develop.
@JonMackenzie This is a very aesthetic and effective/objective way of presenting the debate and comparison between the opposite limits of football tactics nowadays. We're far from a footballer's thinking and speech. This is worthy of a PhD.
Please keep enlightening us
This just makes me interested to see how Ancelotti's "hands-off" approach to coaching will work for Brazil: will they be able to win more, while maintaining their identity?
7:30 I don’t know about the Grealish point because Doku has come into the same system, kept the positional aspects, but also lights the pitch up
Pep is just the evolution of Total Football. And like most things in the world these days, his evolution is definitely a product of the times in which we live.
Total Football was about flexibility, about individuality being good for the whole, and that mimicked the real world before Reaganism.
Cruyff added cynicism to his total football blueprint to actually win the European Cup, something definitely very true in the late 80s and early 90s.
And Pep's evolution is all about control. Much like Mourinho was the Aldous Huxley of football - giving the opposition the appearance of control by ceding possession, only to pounce and show that he was in fact in control - Mourinho is Big Brother. He is all seeing, all knowing, and always in control.
His entire system is built upon controlling the space and tempo of the match. And City lose when other teams don't let themselves be controlled. Or when other teams happily let City control one or the other to such a high extent, the other falls apart. See Brentford, who let City dictate the tempo to such a huge extent that suddenly the space is not where it's meant to be.
And that is culturally relevant, it is a pure representation of the world today, a world of control and a world where you would hope people are about to try and burst free of that control.
And so, will we see a new power arrive in football? One based upon appearing to settle into controlled systems, only to burst out of the them and unleash chaos? Like a meta version of the World Cup winning German team, who appeared patient, only to spring into action with those quick switches of play and forwards who followed the ball - I was definitely reminded of them in this video.
The new power has arrived at the top level. His name is Ange Postecoglou. All will kneel before Ange's Tottenham.
Football history will always remember 2014's impenetrable Berlin Wall.
@@tom4115 he’s not really doing anything new, though, is he? It’s basically Pioli’s Milan from a few years ago
@@tom4115 Ange is good but he isn't saving Spurs😂😂
@@tomsmith3216 HA! nothing new. My God, this will be like taking candy from babies. Ange is 10 years ahead of the competition mate.
Guardiola, like most managers, is over rated. He managed basically the best group of players Barcelona have had in decades. He then managed Bayern who dominate by default. Then City and their bottomless pockets. His greatest strength is in picking rich, stable clubs with world class football recruitment/development departments.
No need to resort to nonsense video titles, your content is good enough to attract viewers.
Don't read to deep on it 😂😂
Compared to Jose and Conte obviously pep is better to watch but honestly this is the game people want to sit and watch, the flare, the quick passes because you only score so much in soccer
Good analysis on the differences between the two. It really irks me, though that the conclusion is “let’s see if he can go and win it“.
Another interesting fact about Diniz is that he is graduated in psychology. This has a key role in his approach with the players...
Irrelevant
Even Guardiola has a set of players which are permitted to move with freedom in the pitch. For his understanding of the game, the most technical players should be at the middle, where time and space are scarce, but where you can be the most dangerous. There the players rotate and try to find the third man. Messi is the perfect example of this kind of player Guardiola makes an exception and let play with more freedom.
WOW great in depth video! APPRECIATE
I think instead of attacking or defending. We can talk how does the transition look like because I think that's where the goal comes from a game nowadays at highest level.
Funny how you can visualise guardiola tactics with actual footage and can find a billion out there , but can only visualise Denise tactics , ain't none like pep he becomes the legacy the main content everyone learn from
Cool video but there was no reason to put Diniz as an agitator. He LOVES Guardiola, is a massive fan, there is a pic with both of them and Diniz has the widest smile I've ever seen
The issue with Pep’s style is that it slowly renders players skill less in other aspects. Like Graelish needs to have skills other than just dragging players wide while doing 4-5 things that Pep wants him to do in his system. He becomes stale and useless in other systems. This is not to say Pep is evil or bad for football - it’s just that being part of his team is like a boring desk job where you repeatedly do the same thing everyday - but that’s the cost of winning everything possible at the highest level
Exactly, I feel the entire discourse around football has changed to glorify the managers at all costs. Every football match is now this chess game where players are reduced to pawns. Where is the rolm for true artistry and creativity in that? Dont get me wrong i do like the cerebral aspecr of managing sometimes but i feel its gone too far and now talents like james rodriguez and pjanic dont rly exist anymore. Which is why i sort of like diniz’s more instinctual natural approach
What's your evidence of this? What other systems has Grealish played that you used to detrmine this?
If you are being paid £300 thousand a week to do what your coach tells you well with discipline and withoutcomplaining. I think that's a good bargain and if the team wins, the "problem" you mention is irrelevant.
@@Xoman08 sure but thats analysing football from a strictly monetary perspective. football is more like an art, and there is a case to be made that the romantic artsy notion of football is more important. feels a bit soulless to reduce football to chess and remove that spirit and instinct which is part of the game
To be fair, I started to hate high pressing football. It's too much about pace, agility & less creativity. No place for players like Riquelme, Zidane & Ozil. Every team, every coach now is about high pressing. So I look forward to Diniz. There should be more than 1 way to play football
He is the best tactical mind to happen to this generation
I've felt Pep's football was too rigid and algorithmic to be considered the prettiest brand of football around. Its incredible still, and does have beauty... but I have never understood the argument his sides are the best to watch... Klopps best Liverpool sides were much more enjoyable on the eye.
The thing I like the least about Diniz's quote is his seeming necessity to disparage Positional play in order for him/his approach to become relevant...it looks like the tactic of picking a fight with someone in the limelight to get some of that light for yourself
I agree with everything but your take on esthetics. You summarize it from a perspective of a manager trying to keep his job. It's really not a stretch to think that we all have some criteria for success other than being good at a job. This becomes even more true for the fans who time and time again prove that esthetics are important to them. If someone is bored with watching a Guardiola team play, as they don't appreciate the esthetics of his team play, there is nothing wrong with that. Assigning a value judgement to that and preferring a different coach's style is normal. I know you are reacting to people who take this point too far, but I believe your argumentation becomes somewhat sided because of how you fully dismiss esthetics as a criterion.
Still a good video and I appreciate your work!
Managers are MASSIVELY JUDGED by the aesthetic quality of the football they play.
I can’t believe the confidence with which you said they’re not.
Look at Spurs fans’ backlash against Conte, even though he was fourth in the table. That was all about the aesthetic quality of the way his teams play.
Contrast that to Wenger getting Arsenal fourth so many years in a row. A big factor in a lot of Arsenal fans still being happy with him was the fact that his teams played aesthetically pleasing football.
The only way you can beat him is trying to copy him. Try your way and you are 3:0 down at HT
Spot on. Being from Brazil, I appreciate the aesthetic shift Diniz is bringing to the national team and hoping for the best but, at the end of the day, what did he win? A couple of local tournaments, and that's it. Guardiola, on the other hand....
Being from Brazil, you know this is not spot on at all. Tifo are acting like Diniz himself is making a rivalry with Guardiola, when actually people kept saying he's the Brazilian Guardiola and he simply said that's not the case. It's clear Guardiola is by far the best coach in the world. And it's clear that Diniz's style takes the best out of trash players and make them play like title contenders.
First of guardiola is the best, no debate
Secondly, yes tactics and freedom of play can be achieved I agree, but not everyone can be very expressive, pep allows his free 10's and wingers express themselves as it should be in football, it's not like pep is constraining anyone, every player in their position do what their suppose to do, ake dias akanji are defenders, stay back and defend, grealish bernando are tasked to play on the wings, create width and when you get the ball run at your man( i mean see doku for goodness sake), haalnd is a striker, bully the opp defenders and find space, he even drop deep at times, so it's not in the place to say that pep tactics constrain players but if you're playing in a certain position you do what that position is meant to do, short and simple, that's why you'll never see one player carrying city, cause they all play the basics of their positions perfectly, guardiola has shown that this works and is effective against any other, so yes while players may dream of being the next Ronaldinho and dribbling and playing freely as they like while scoring goals and assists(not as if city players don't still do that) pep has found a balance between that freedom and discipline and the record only goes to show that yes it'd be lovely to have tactics and play with freedom for aesthetic reasons but ultimately being disciplined and having a clear approach for your players gives you both the aesthetic style of play and most importantly the Results and that is the way to go
To each their own is how I view football. Your style depends on your personality, beliefs, and external pressures. As a man city fan I see why our positional style works to help automate decisions for players. However, it doesn’t mean that they become robots like people say, it’s a matter of “when” they do certain not actions not that they aren’t allowed to. Bernardo, KDB, Gundo, Mahrez, and we’re starting to see it more with Foden and Alvarez. Pep has no problem with players “expressing” themselves, so long as they understand when the game calls for it.
Fernando Diniz is a psychologist by formation and i like his trying to do something different... By the way i used to like watching City play but day after day i get more bored
I feel like saying that Pep only relies on positional play and not freedom and rotation is just wrong. Before Haaland joined man city, they basically had a floating front 5 that would rotate positions at any given time. Adapting the game to fit around a star striker doesn't change the fact that most pep teams were based around rotation, overload, and pulling defenders out of position.
Diniz should be the permanent coach not just interim. He’s the perfect man to revive joga bonito and bring back good football to world
You guys do such a great job with your videos! For all the football fans out there, keep up the great work !
As a brazillian i have no ideia why are you commenting so much on diniz like these last months, he has an interesting idea for sure, but his teams never won nothing, in fact he has only one trophy in his career and its a minor one, you are trying ti create an image that doesn’t actually exists of a new super coach, but in fact he still have to prove himself against some big names here in brasil, and actually he is temporarily the national teams coach, as we are still waiting for ancelotti, so he has a double function, training fluminense and the national team,
Guardiola is the worst thing that happened to football.
He took One of the most Amazing team of history of football and decided to leave Ronaldinho, Eto'o and Deco creating a team good to win, but boring to watch.
What nobody remember Is how bad was Barcelona first two years with Pep and how Tiki taka boring was, MSN was totally Amazing and was with Luis Enrique not with him.
He went to Bayern and did the same, destroyed the team making boring football, same at City. He never winned how much he winned with Messi and Iniesta also having the best team of the league every time, and his idea of football Is composed by a winning system with Good soldiers not of a Great team with incredibile Champions.
He cannot train Genius, he failed with Ibra, failed with Eto'o, failed with Dinho.. only One that could work with him was Messi, but in my opinion Messi became more useful to scheme and boring to watch because of Guardiola. Watch at what Messi was before 2010 and what he was with Neymar and then Watch at what he was with Pepe to understand how Guardiola's football Kills creativity and Genius.
It's all nonsense. Guardiola is hardly rigid. His style now is different from what it was when he first came to England, and that was different from his first style at Barca. The truth is that all coaches start out with some ideas, then when they are countered they change and adapt. The best coaches aren't wedded to any one style. If Guardiola is known for his current style it's because it's working for him. That's all.
Anyone know the website name for those framed shirts/ print shirts in the background?
I really hope that Diniz get the opportunity to display his ideas on on the biggest stage, we know he'll be leaving Brazil next Summer so he won't get the chance to coach them at a world cup, but maybe a European Club will give him a chance because his football could be incredible, especially with very clever and innovative footballers. However as John said results are the be all and end all. Good example being Atletico Madrid, Simeone may not play the most attractive football but he has consistently has his side competing against the biggest teams in Europe. To the stage where now they are competing with Real and Barcelona for League titles almost every year, consistently in the Champions League and are arguably the scariest team to draw if you're a favourite to win the tournament.
No one can ruin football, this is such an over-exaggeration.
You guys just don't understand. Brazilian have been feeling distant from the national team since it is more "European" than brazilian: all players are from European clubs, the tactics are European and most games happened in Europe. It is about winning, but no just winning. Tite has a great winning record, but lot's of fans didn't like his game because it wasn't beautiful. It was pragmatic and ugly at times. We want the Seleção winning beautifully hahaha.
So what started out as a football tactics video, turned out to be a question to be about what it means to be a football 🤔
As a Ghanaian I'm so happy for the recognition given Tony. One of the best to ever play for us.🇬🇭
You know what's even crazier? The fact that Brazil have in fact hired a European coach, Carlo Ancelotti, who will be taking over from Fernando Diniz. Although Ancelotti is very player management focused he is also very structured. How is that going to sit with Diniz?
Structured tactically?
and what makes diniz not structured?just because he is different from guardiola doesn't makes his structure less rigid
You can have fancy tactics all you want, in the end the quality of players decide the game.
@iannovak5223 Yeah and where is Chelsea now?
super interesting presentation yet fair to both side of 'arguments'. thanks mate.
😂😂😂 don't blame jacks fumbles on pep, doku came in and his free, "proper winger'-pep, Leroy, sterling, mahrez, foden all play ball. but the pass back merchant some how struggles
He's the only coach who makes average players play like world class players
It's gonna be difficult to creat a relational system for Diniz in the national team simply because all of his players have been playing in positional styles for years already.
Football will keep on evolving. That’s more reason why mangers and players have to keep evolving to get the best from modern football
Guardiola is in the Top 3 best football managers right now. Imo, what's important for tactics, coaching, and managing a team is having a clear direction and Guardiola is the manager that has the clearest direction in which he wants his team to play. That's why it works, he wants his players to do something and to execute it in a specific way. He's able to refine his tactics based on the direction he wants to go and improve on it. Pep is a genius when it comes to tactics but in a way, Diniz has a point. The "freedom" given to players is what makes them become greats.
In the end, teams don't win on tactics alone but confidence, skill, and egoism of their players. Pep's tactics wouldn't even work without the technical individual ability of Ruben Dias, De Bruyne, Haaland, etc. They went to City already as great players because they've been to teams that they had freedom to become better and explore. I can't help but feel as though City players are constrained though, it's not a place to develop the next Balon D'Or or FIFA Best player (although Haaland SHOULD win this year) or the next Messi or Ronaldo. It's a place to win titles for sure but it's not Real Madrid or Barcelona (in the past).
A few years from now, Haaland is going to leave City because as it is now, he has only a little left from what he can learn at City. His talents aren't being utilized to it's full potential. City, in my opinion, is imbalanced towards too much tactical and constraining philosophies under Pep. It's beautiful and effective actually but there is a better option. Tactics and beautiful individual expression can be achieved, I think the closest to that balance right now is Arsenal and Real Madrid.
You clearly don’t know football brudda. Man City have gotten the most ballondor nominees in the past 3 years. And also players are at their peak always when playing for city. Peps tactics change every season. Arsenal is playing the same way City played when they had sane and sterling you clearly dont know what you on. . Pep modifies tactics based off the players he has
Without Messi, City players would be winning Balon dors. Guardiola makes players look even better than they actually are, that's why a lot of them leave man City and are trash elsewhere.
First of guardiola is the best, no debate
Secondly, yes tactics and freedom of play can be achieved I agree, but not everyone can be very expressive, pep allows his free 10's and wingers express themselves as it should be in football, it's not like pep is constraining anyone, every player in their position do what their suppose to do, ake dias akanji are defenders, stay back and defend, grealish bernando are tasked to play on the wings, create width and when you get the ball run at your man( i mean see doku for goodness sake), haalnd is a striker, bully the opp defenders and find space, he even drop deep at times, so it's not in the place to say that pep tactics constrain players but if you're playing in a certain position you do what that position is meant to do, short and simple, that's why you'll never see one player carrying city, cause they all play the basics of their positions perfectly, guardiola has shown that this works and is effective against any other, so yes while players may dream of being the next Ronaldinho and dribbling and playing freely as they like while scoring goals and assists(not as if city players don't still do that) pep has found a balance between that freedom and discipline and the record only goes to show that yes it'd be lovely to have tactics and play with freedom for aesthetic reasons but ultimately being disciplined and having a clear approach for your players gives you both the aesthetic style of play and most importantly the Results and that is the way to go
From football tactics to metaphysics
That's why i love Tifo!
I don't think the use of 'freedom' here should be understood as a moral concept, but as a tactical one. By 'freer', Diniz means freer from the rigidity of positional play, and despite the fact that these words can carry some connotation and/or judgment of values, I think it is simply a matters of semantics and/or vocabulary, especially considering that these are two different languages and thus the concepts and understanding of 'freedom' can differ.
I think this 'apositional' style is very suitable for Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and etc. The football culture in south america is different; we play either on the streets or on futsal courts, where creativity and individual technique are emphasized, and these are the skills that our young players tend to develop the most. This is one of the reasons why, in my opinion, so many south american 'wonderkids' fail to prosper in Europe.
Love the Tony Yeboah shirt
The point about rotations is moot, really. The 10 outfield players in a positional system might be allowed to swap positions with one another, but their movement within those positions is still strictly defined by the system. You do not have players dynamically moving into space, you have players rotating between different, largely static, positions. This is in complete contrast to a relational style where players are asked to constantly interpret space and position themselves according to their own intuition.
Furthermore, managers can and should be judged on criteria beyond results. Yeah, winning is important, but I and many fans would much rather support an entertaining, positive side than an Allardyce team which got a few more points. Winning primarily matters to the capitalist paymasters of clubs who equate it with financial success and, whilst it is important to fans, it should absolutely not be viewed as the sole criteria of judgement.
The worst thing could be a bunch of people who watch tactics videos and think they know more than the people truly involved in the game.
The man who saved Tifo.
This video is fantastic. This video is what makes TIFO special.
Greatest manager in the history of football, not even close.
Guardiolas style is much easier for players to understand and implement. If you understand your role, you will perform to a high level
his Barcelona team of 2008 was one of the most iconic moments in all of professional sport
So he is basically saying that he is a stupid and doesn't have any tactical brilliance like Pep.
The argument against Pep and City will never stop, it will only evolve into whatever people need in order to feel like they’ve been wronged. This has always been personal whether people like to admit it or not. Pep is City, they built their whole system for him. Unless there is any proof found otherwise, CFG did it all legally in the bounds of the necessary regulations. They will not be found guilty. Not due to corruption, or greed on the part of the accusers, just the facts. Having spent less than their competition and achieved the absolute heights of football I really don’t think the lads are too bothered. Pep deserves all the success they’ve had and the players even moreso.
Great analysis of all the pairs. Looking forward to the projections
saying that there are no managers in the world being judged by how they play aesthetically surely doesn’t match with Brazilian local football culture haha that’s part of the background of Diniz’s comments to begin with
Brazilians are critics of the way the Seleção plays at least since 2009
you guys could have written a less clickbaity, more interesting headline
Why is this video so philosophical. Bringing up the question if hyper-capitalism has made the game more dull or not. What it means to be free, and if pure freedom is more effective than the rigid, but effective structures that keep us in place. The balance of collectivism and autonomy, organization and beauty, and in the end it only matters if it's winning or not.
I'd love to see how this "Apositional" football works on a cold windy night at Stoke... 🙄
Side note: Joga Bonito was at a time where positional structure was not too prevalent withinn the game. Times have change, and so should Brazil.