Your presentation is so riveting and beautiful to my soul every time. This was so precious, tenderly explainso.g our drawings to God and our need for a mirror who loves us, shows us the true face of God. Oh my! Thank you with all my heart! I'm in love!!
Dr. Burke, that was a joy to learn from. Canto XVI has been a longtime favorite from this Canticle. Mark the Lombard's quote, "Thus if this present world has gone askew, look to yourselves, in yourselves lies the cause" has stuck in my mind since I first read it. This is a central (har har) example of how Dante is presenting the structure of reality, including social reality, and how sin deforms it. Libertarian-ish realms of thought in the U.S. and Europe would do well to consider Dante and other ancient/Mediaeval authors in understanding the nature of the State, law, and the Church. I hope to read De monarchia soon to get what his idea is. Any considerations of the Roman Church likewise benefit from hearing Dante's diatribes against Papal overstepping and corruption in the institutional Church. Love pervades all. Disordered love truly is the reality of sin that we live with. The path forward is how we see and are transformed by the reordering of love in our souls. This is supernatural grace! The next Canto seems very important in this line of thought stringing between these middle 3 Cantos. I'm excited!!!! Thank you!
Beautiful presentation. The image of Beatrice as a mirror leading us to God, and the connection to Augustine is so profound. I will listen several times to meditate upon these profound truths.
LECTURE TRANSCRIPT Purgatorio canto 16. In this canto focused on wrath or anger Dante explores the source of moral evil and moral virtue. It is is important to distinguish at the outset moral evil from physical evil, pain, dismemberment, some say tornadoes and earthquakes, but these are more the cause than the effect of physical evil. And also distinguish moral evil from metaphysical evil: death. Dante locates the source of moral evil either in free will or failed leadership. Moral goodness is achieved through freely choosing to love God in all that we do. So let us discuss the following: free will, failed leadership and love. Free will-Dante is quick to point out that blame cannot be assigned to the forces of nature independent of the will. If that so the case free will would be denied you and there would be no justice when one feels joy for doing good or misery for evil. In other words, feelings of joy or misery for what has done would make no sense, nor would the notion and reality of justice make sense because the person could not have done otherwise than he or she did since there were no genuinely open alternatives to what was done. Today, we are often persuaded by scientific arguments that claim that our behavior is under the control of the environment or genetic factors. That the so-called free choice is actually predictable, predictable in principle if not in fact as it is determined by external antecedent causes. In Dante’s time the external causes governing behavior were the heavens, the stars, as for centuries astrologers have asserted. Dante is willing to grant the heavens (the stars) can strongly influence your behavior but you are still free in the face of them “yes the heavens give motion to your inclinations I don’t say all of them but even if they did you still possess a light to winnow good from evil and you have free will” The light is the light of reason that allows us to distinguish good from evil and thus grasp upon sufficient reflection the natural moral law embedded in our hearts, embedded in our nature through our natural freedom of self-determination we nurture the good that transforms our behavior into virtue. In this canto Dante opens the vexing question that has dogged philosophers since the time of Aristotle, whether God’s foreknowledge of future events, including so-called free choice events, shows that we are apparently free but not really free. Dante writes “to a greater power and better nature you, free, are subject” If I am subject to that power and if that power is omniscient and knows all that I will do in the future how can I do otherwise than what God already knows that I will do? And if I cannot do otherwise, how can I claim to be free? The question of free will in the face of divine foreknowledge is central to the entire Divine Comedy and its centrality is evident by the fact that Dante treats it here in this canto, which is the 50th canto of the hundred cantos of the Divine Comedy. Dante does not resolve his conundrum in this context. Failed leadership-In order to curb our wrath and our wayward appetites we need establish laws and a leader who can direct us to the good. The canto beings with Dante being blinded by intense smoke and finds Marco the Lombard who will lead him “just as the blind man walks behind his guide so that he does not stray or strike again something that might hurt or even kill him”. But who might this ultimate leader be, who truly knows the good and can direct us toward it? In canto 15 it is promised to be Beatrice, Beatrice “she will deliver you from this and every other craving from your harvesting darkness from light itself”. When the leader cannot rein in his or her own greedy appetites then, “as you can plainly see failed guidance is the cause that the world is steeped in vice and not your inner nature that has grown corrupt.” In this canto Dante assails the leadership of the Roman church, the papacy, for having abrogated to herself the temporal power of the emperor whereas its purpose is to exercise spiritual power “and these two forced to be together must perforce go ill”, “spread the word then that the church of Rome confounding in herself two governments stumbles in the mud and befouling herself and her burden”. (CB Gibbon would say something similar only in reverse) Here Dante takes up his own personal wrath or scorn for Pope Boniface VIII and other leaders such as Philip IV of France who he never names but indicates by such phrases as “Mal di Francia” in Purgatorio 20, 32 and 33. Love-Also significant in this canto, in canto 16, is the role of love. For Dante, God is love and justice and forgiveness “from the hand of him who looks on it with love before it lives comes forth the simple infant soul.” For Dante it is love that powers the world the inner force and source of all that is and lives and searches and the soul desires to return to this source. “O creature who purify yourself to return in beauty to the one who made you.” This is resonant of Saint Augustine’s claim you have made us “and drawn us to yourself and our heart is restless until it rests in you O Lord,” from his book The Confessions. But the return to the source depends on the way we desire in love. In canto 17 Virgil will describe to Dante various disordered affections that thwart the love of God. But in canto 15 we discover that Beatrice through her love of God will guide us toward salvation. Her face is like a mirror, an existential mirror in which we see ourselves reflected and as loved by God. Thank you for the 100 Days project!
Canto 16: In Circle Five of the Inferno, Dante and Virgil encountered the unrepentant wrathful who struggled against one another while wallowing in mud, particles suspended in water. In Terrace Three of Purgatory, they meet penitent wrathful who comfort one another while being hidden by smoke, particles suspended in air. They can no longer see the wealth, power or talent of others that brought about their wraith and, thus, are being purged of it. They hear the chant, as a single voice rather than of a divided community, of the “Agnus Dei” ... Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us ... give us peace.” They meet Marco, the Lombard, who speaks of valor, the virtue of courage and strength, no longer found in Florence. The conclusion is reached that “evil” is not the result of the “disaster” caused by the stars, but by the actions of people lacking a sense of responsibility. The soul, like an innocent child, learning from many sources what is right and wrong, develops into an adult with free will. Society lacks leadership, especially those who identify with the people. The Church is a major example; it tried combining the power of the sword with that of the shepherd’s staff and failed in both. The example of the Levites, priests without any land or wealth, should be followed. Although living models of valor exist, such as Gherardo, they are not well known and, therefore, un-followed.
God given free will vs God’s omniscience: There is no paradox. We live inside of time and God lives outside of time. We make our choices with free will and God knows what those choices are. Time is the difference.
Constructive criticism; I felt a little underwhelmed by this presentation. I had high hopes for the commentary as I read the Canto, in that it truly covers a lot of ground. The idea of God creating the child and the child loving the 'good' naturally, but that this lesser good if not guided into higher good by leaders is really worth exploring in today's world. For me this is highlights not only the role of civic leadership but of parents. We see these young people, still chasing after childish things that excite the senses, like computer games and junk food. Whilst we understand when little ones love these 'good' things, when we see young adults that have not mature in their affections it is a corruption. In this way these sins of omission, the failure to ripen and mature are the source of evil but are less easy to identify or discuss in secular society as 'it feels good' and 'it isn't harming anyone'. Dante really covers so much ground in this Canto; the role of Church/state (City of God vs City of Man), the picture of a 'good city' that is inextricably linked to the 'good man' hearkens back to Plato's central concerns also. The pre-eminence of reason and choice over the fates is now being 'discovered' in contemporary context by neuroscience's identification of neuroplasticity; the brain's ability to change itself above its environmental influences, yet again there is nothing new under the sun.
However well-constructed, persuasive and beautiful one's definition of Free Will might be, it is essential that we derive our theology from the Scriptures and not from mere conjecture. The fictive idea of Free Will does not originate from God's Holy Word. Instead, it is the idea of bondage that can be clearly found in its pages. We are bound to sin. We do not have wills that are free to purse righteousness, before coming to Christ. Isaiah 64:6 states "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." In God's divine foreknowledge, he saw the true state of man under Adam was "free", free only to sin, and left alone his inclination would be to continue on this way and perish. "But God so loved the world..." It is God's will that is righteous, clean and truly free. Under Jesus, the second Adam, we are set free from the bondage that once held us. He provides His very own spirit to indwell us and change our inclination. Dante places an array of repentant sinners each in the process of purgation. But didn't Christ pay it all? Full atonement. Our righteousness is not our own, but Christ's imputed to us. We can take no credit, except for the sin which made it necessary. All Glory to our Savoir and King. The debate over Free Will and Divine Foreknowledge is not so complex, when we place all the righteousness solely on Christ.
Your presentation is so riveting and beautiful to my soul every time. This was so precious, tenderly explainso.g our drawings to God and our need for a mirror who loves us, shows us the true face of God. Oh my! Thank you with all my heart! I'm in love!!
Dr. Burke, that was a joy to learn from. Canto XVI has been a longtime favorite from this Canticle. Mark the Lombard's quote, "Thus if this present world has gone askew, look to yourselves, in yourselves lies the cause" has stuck in my mind since I first read it. This is a central (har har) example of how Dante is presenting the structure of reality, including social reality, and how sin deforms it. Libertarian-ish realms of thought in the U.S. and Europe would do well to consider Dante and other ancient/Mediaeval authors in understanding the nature of the State, law, and the Church. I hope to read De monarchia soon to get what his idea is. Any considerations of the Roman Church likewise benefit from hearing Dante's diatribes against Papal overstepping and corruption in the institutional Church.
Love pervades all. Disordered love truly is the reality of sin that we live with. The path forward is how we see and are transformed by the reordering of love in our souls. This is supernatural grace! The next Canto seems very important in this line of thought stringing between these middle 3 Cantos. I'm excited!!!!
Thank you!
Beautiful presentation. The image of Beatrice as a mirror leading us to God, and the connection to Augustine is so profound. I will listen several times to meditate upon these profound truths.
Excellent! So clear and so profound. I would love to hear more from you. Thank you!
Thank you Dr Burke for that beautiful explanation of Canto XVI and the conundrums of free will and leadership.
Thank you. One of the best presentations.
Absolutely 💯
Really enjoyed both this presentation and comments
LECTURE TRANSCRIPT
Purgatorio canto 16. In this canto focused on wrath or anger Dante explores the source of moral evil and moral virtue. It is is important to distinguish at the outset moral evil from physical evil, pain, dismemberment, some say tornadoes and earthquakes, but these are more the cause than the effect of physical evil. And also distinguish moral evil from metaphysical evil: death.
Dante locates the source of moral evil either in free will or failed leadership. Moral goodness is achieved through freely choosing to love God in all that we do. So let us discuss the following: free will, failed leadership and love. Free will-Dante is quick to point out that blame cannot be assigned to the forces of nature independent of the will.
If that so the case free will would be denied you and there would be no justice when one feels joy for doing good or misery for evil. In other words, feelings of joy or misery for what has done would make no sense, nor would the notion and reality of justice make sense because the person could not have done otherwise than he or she did since there were no genuinely open alternatives to what was done.
Today, we are often persuaded by scientific arguments that claim that our behavior is under the control of the environment or genetic factors. That the so-called free choice is actually predictable, predictable in principle if not in fact as it is determined by external antecedent causes.
In Dante’s time the external causes governing behavior were the heavens, the stars, as for centuries astrologers have asserted.
Dante is willing to grant the heavens (the stars) can strongly influence your behavior but you are still free in the face of them “yes the heavens give motion to your inclinations I don’t say all of them but even if they did you still possess a light to winnow good from evil and you have free will” The light is the light of reason that allows us to distinguish good from evil and thus grasp upon sufficient reflection the natural moral law embedded in our hearts, embedded in our nature through our natural freedom of self-determination we nurture the good that transforms our behavior into virtue.
In this canto Dante opens the vexing question that has dogged philosophers since the time of Aristotle, whether God’s foreknowledge of future events, including so-called free choice events, shows that we are apparently free but not really free. Dante writes “to a greater power and better nature you, free, are subject” If I am subject to that power and if that power is omniscient and knows all that I will do in the future how can I do otherwise than what God already knows that I will do? And if I cannot do otherwise, how can I claim to be free? The question of free will in the face of divine foreknowledge is central to the entire Divine Comedy and its centrality is evident by the fact that Dante treats it here in this canto, which is the 50th canto of the hundred cantos of the Divine Comedy. Dante does not resolve his conundrum in this context.
Failed leadership-In order to curb our wrath and our wayward appetites we need establish laws and a leader who can direct us to the good. The canto beings with Dante being blinded by intense smoke and finds Marco the Lombard who will lead him “just as the blind man walks behind his guide so that he does not stray or strike again something that might hurt or even kill him”. But who might this ultimate leader be, who truly knows the good and can direct us toward it? In canto 15 it is promised to be Beatrice, Beatrice “she will deliver you from this and every other craving from your harvesting darkness from light itself”.
When the leader cannot rein in his or her own greedy appetites then, “as you can plainly see failed guidance is the cause that the world is steeped in vice and not your inner nature that has grown corrupt.”
In this canto Dante assails the leadership of the Roman church, the papacy, for having abrogated to herself the temporal power of the emperor whereas its purpose is to exercise spiritual power “and these two forced to be together must perforce go ill”, “spread the word then that the church of Rome confounding in herself two governments stumbles in the mud and befouling herself and her burden”.
(CB Gibbon would say something similar only in reverse)
Here Dante takes up his own personal wrath or scorn for Pope Boniface VIII and other leaders such as Philip IV of France who he never names but indicates by such phrases as “Mal di Francia” in Purgatorio 20, 32 and 33.
Love-Also significant in this canto, in canto 16, is the role of love. For Dante, God is love and justice and forgiveness “from the hand of him who looks on it with love before it lives comes forth the simple infant soul.” For Dante it is love that powers the world the inner force and source of all that is and lives and searches and the soul desires to return to this source. “O creature who purify yourself to return in beauty to the one who made you.” This is resonant of Saint Augustine’s claim you have made us “and drawn us to yourself and our heart is restless until it rests in you O Lord,” from his book The Confessions. But the return to the source depends on the way we desire in love. In canto 17 Virgil will describe to Dante various disordered affections that thwart the love of God. But in canto 15 we discover that Beatrice through her love of God will guide us toward salvation. Her face is like a mirror, an existential mirror in which we see ourselves reflected and as loved by God.
Thank you for the 100 Days project!
Excellent discussion.
Canto 16: In Circle Five of the Inferno, Dante and Virgil encountered the unrepentant wrathful who struggled against one another while wallowing in mud, particles suspended in water. In Terrace Three of Purgatory, they meet penitent wrathful who comfort one another while being hidden by smoke, particles suspended in air. They can no longer see the wealth, power or talent of others that brought about their wraith and, thus, are being purged of it. They hear the chant, as a single voice rather than of a divided community, of the “Agnus Dei” ... Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us ... give us peace.” They meet Marco, the Lombard, who speaks of valor, the virtue of courage and strength, no longer found in Florence. The conclusion is reached that “evil” is not the result of the “disaster” caused by the stars, but by the actions of people lacking a sense of responsibility. The soul, like an innocent child, learning from many sources what is right and wrong, develops into an adult with free will. Society lacks leadership, especially those who identify with the people. The Church is a major example; it tried combining the power of the sword with that of the shepherd’s staff and failed in both. The example of the Levites, priests without any land or wealth, should be followed. Although living models of valor exist, such as Gherardo, they are not well known and, therefore, un-followed.
God given free will vs God’s omniscience: There is no paradox. We live inside of time and God lives outside of time. We make our choices with free will and God knows what those choices are. Time is the difference.
Constructive criticism; I felt a little underwhelmed by this presentation. I had high hopes for the commentary as I read the Canto, in that it truly covers a lot of ground. The idea of God creating the child and the child loving the 'good' naturally, but that this lesser good if not guided into higher good by leaders is really worth exploring in today's world. For me this is highlights not only the role of civic leadership but of parents. We see these young people, still chasing after childish things that excite the senses, like computer games and junk food. Whilst we understand when little ones love these 'good' things, when we see young adults that have not mature in their affections it is a corruption. In this way these sins of omission, the failure to ripen and mature are the source of evil but are less easy to identify or discuss in secular society as 'it feels good' and 'it isn't harming anyone'. Dante really covers so much ground in this Canto; the role of Church/state (City of God vs City of Man), the picture of a 'good city' that is inextricably linked to the 'good man' hearkens back to Plato's central concerns also. The pre-eminence of reason and choice over the fates is now being 'discovered' in contemporary context by neuroscience's identification of neuroplasticity; the brain's ability to change itself above its environmental influences, yet again there is nothing new under the sun.
However well-constructed, persuasive and beautiful one's definition of Free Will might be, it is essential that we derive our theology from the Scriptures and not from mere conjecture. The fictive idea of Free Will does not originate from God's Holy Word. Instead, it is the idea of bondage that can be clearly found in its pages. We are bound to sin. We do not have wills that are free to purse righteousness, before coming to Christ. Isaiah 64:6 states "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." In God's divine foreknowledge, he saw the true state of man under Adam was "free", free only to sin, and left alone his inclination would be to continue on this way and perish. "But God so loved the world..." It is God's will that is righteous, clean and truly free. Under Jesus, the second Adam, we are set free from the bondage that once held us. He provides His very own spirit to indwell us and change our inclination. Dante places an array of repentant sinners each in the process of purgation. But didn't Christ pay it all? Full atonement. Our righteousness is not our own, but Christ's imputed to us. We can take no credit, except for the sin which made it necessary. All Glory to our Savoir and King. The debate over Free Will and Divine Foreknowledge is not so complex, when we place all the righteousness solely on Christ.