Men and women used to commonly show physical affection to each other routinely. My mother told me she and her friends would lock arms, put their arms around each other, cuddle up in a group. It wasn’t gay.
Often commenters here of a certain age recall this level of honesty, when people displayed affection without fear of judgment. It makes me smile to see such recollections.
In the 1980's, I was a regular customer at a hardware store owned by a WW2 veteran. He would help me find what I needed, and as he walked me up to the cash register he would always give me a friendly pat on my ass. I thought that was pretty cool that he could be that familiar with another guy and I didn't mind it at all.
Exactly right. Men today have stripped of the ability of expressing affection and closeness with their brothers. Those unfamiliar with that social reality and the reasons behind the change will now equate affection and closeness as something sexual. The goal of the video is to make today's men aware of the fact they've been socially manipulated into believing that only men who have sex with men are allowed to demonstrate affection with their own gender. Earlier generations of men did not have these restrictions placed upon them, they were free from such damaging behavioral manipulation. Expressing love, friendship, support, camaraderie, affection are what make us authentically human.
As a straight woman, I never thought men showing common affection - not anything wrong let alone homosexual, not that that is wrong. But come on, I rather see a hug than a fist.
Most of us Men are starved today for Male Bonding and Love that is not necessarily Homosexual or Gay. The Kinsey Report and others destroyed all natural Male Bonding and Relationships. As someone born in the early 1970s my generation really got the Brunt of stereotype destruction of any male bonding calling everything Fag and Faggot. All of us guys born in that time have identity issues because we were never allowed to express ourselves fully without being labled with those loathsome names and labels. 50 years later and I am finally seeing the light.
What many today may not understand or appreciate fully is the sense of justification that went along with people spitting out that vitriol. It was the level of acceptance of that behavior that made growing up during that period so hard and so destructive to so many men.
Homophobia originates in the feminine. Women know that questioning a mans' sexual orientation is the best way to shame and ridicule him into silence and relinquish his autonomy. There is no better way to control men.
I was gay in the Marine Corps infantry, and literally nobody cared. There was a saying “any Port in a storm” a lot of people turn to bisexuality that didn’t mean they were gay necessarily. As a young man I had a great time.
I came out in May 1968 with my first partner, after serving 4 years with USAF. One of the DC gay bars was in Southeast, near the Marine barracks. Marines were reputed to be hot sexually. But, never say "gay" and NO KISSING!
Good reply. The entire concept of war is completely wrong in every aspect, but that's a different conversion for another time. The men that were involved in it were lucky to come back at all. I'm sure the guys involved could only find peace and comfort with the bonds they made with each other. For the young guys that were plucked from their homes and lives they were just starting out on, none of it made any sense at all. Most likely it was the first time in their lives that they were able to be themselves, and more importantly, the first time they didn't have some female pushing them around to be what they wanted them to be. I believe it's very hard to be a female. They change their minds every 5 minutes, so they don't even know what they want. It goes much further than not having dicks, but it definitely includes that. Just imagine looking down, and there's nothing there. I know I wouldn't like it. I think it's called "penis envey. Being female means they run on their emotions, and that's never good. People are people first, and then there is the assignment of gender ,and that's random, apparently. But I am grateful I was assigned male. Men in our society are pushed into categories and guess who is doing the pushing. But always remember this, we can't be catergozed if we don't want to be. So think for yourself, and don't allow it. It's so sad that most men do allow it. I don't understand why.
War breaks down artificial barriers. We understand clearly in life or death circumstances what is truly important. It's also true that to survive in such circumstances, you quickly understand how much we rely on one another's help, love, support, and assistance. Fall sick and you'll discover who your friends are.
During War time America men probably felt it necessary to love ever moment and to feel every emotion for whoever was near. For tomorrow may never come for them. Or worse the friend you held so close to you yesterday may be going home in a box today. Affection for one another was the only way to maintain a sense of normalcy and sanity. I once owned a collection of my two uncles photos. My uncle Bobby stormed the beaches at Normandy while his little brother Sidney took Berlin. You see I have a personal reasons for loving this channel. I have a deep rooted connection with these photos. Also I think I share a kindred spirit with you. Thanks.
I think it is difficult for us to grasp, beyond the periphery of war, what the psychological reality of living so tenuously from moment to moment must have been like. No doubt it would be like a separate reality. Thank you for your kind words and so pleased to hear that the photos are so meaningful to you 🙏.
Thank you. Having a historical view of how realities have changed for men and why is important. Otherwise we're unaware of the damage that's been done and how we can navigate back to a healthier culture.
This collection of photos is amazing in and of itself - a real time capsule. I'd like to add that when I recently spent 3 weeks in Italy, I saw lots of affection between men that would be anathema in the USA. I wonder if this post-war rigidity regarding how males behave with one another is an American and/or Anglo-Saxon thing. I was in the US Army 1972-4, and I didn't experience or see this kind of closeness, but I was never in a war zone or in any real danger, and I think that matters a lot.
WWII was happening, these young men dealt with death, horror and destruction while fight. Women played apart but, at that time they weren't sent into action. The solders became a family, with affection, respect, and love for one another because of their shared experiences. They were glad they were a live and made it home. This has nothing to do with sexuality, it's celebrating, life.
I love these videos. I was in the AF in the 1970's, there was still male bonding and affection, not sexual. Just a sense of "we're all in this together". I had such good friends then.
Affection and sexuality were two distinctly different things. Today they are lumped together. If people today could show affection, without others interpreting it as sexuality, they wouldn't need all the prescriptions that are routinely taken for depression.
When I was in the Navy in 1972,, There were guys that were touchy feely with ; thinking they were gay. But they weren’t. They were just super friendly!!
When the other sex are out of the equation, men are freer to be themselves. The normal peer pressures and manipulations no longer affect them. At the end of the day it's unhealthy to impose behavioral restrictions on men that prevent them from expressing basic aspects of their humanity. In war, the military, and in gendered spaces men return to masculine authenticity.
The spirit which animates man endlessly longs for affection. On a deeper level, the individual aspect of spirit wishes to reunite with itself in others. This union in friends Is strongest. There is one spirit. We all have a piece of it which gives us life. Like bugs to light we are attracted to the spiritual light within all of us. These men are proof of it. It can not be wrong. Light is good. To reunite with it is bliss. These men are feeling spiritual bliss together. That’s not sexual. That’s beautiful innocence.
Agree. To sexualize these images is to strip men of their humanity and to accept a normalized view of a dehumanized masculinity, the result of women's social engineering efforts through ostracization to restrict male attention to female partners.
These photographs represent a broad spectrum of relationships among the men of that era. Of course, most of these guys were straight men bonding emotionally during long-term deployments. But, I know for a fact that a minority were Gay couples who found solace with one another. My dad was in the Navy and he told me that there were Gay relationships that remained on the down-low (hidden) from most of the crew. But, he said that they were good men and soldiers.
It's all very natural, the way it should be. I have always thought that men expressing physical feelings with one another is the way it be. These pictures are positive proof of how men feel about each other. One thing you will notice here are men being men with each other, as I said It's all very natural and enjoyable. So the one important thing that's missing in all these pictures is females. Females are very jealous and require 100% of men's attention. In other words, it's women. They won't allow a man to be shared with anyone, including other men. It's women that won't allow men to express themselves with other women or other men, and they will do anything they feel they have to to stop it, and that's just wrong. I'm 68 years old and never been married and never will. I like women, but could never be married to one. I submit that most men feel the same way I do but won't ever admit it to anyone, including themselves. Men put up with a lot of unnecessary drama with women and I don't know why. The best reasons I can come up with is women can't deal with sharing their feelings with anyone. It's women that hang all the negative things about men being friends with other women or other men. They usually end up using sex as a weapon (as Pat Benatar) points out in one of her very early songs. Women know thats all they have to control a man. All the tension between men and women is because of this issue. They should just relax, and chill out. Because men are going to do what they want,one way or another. They need to back all the way off, because they can't stop us. They can't stop me that's for sure,many have tried but I'm much stronger and smarter than they are. Come on guys don't ruin your life by battling the female drama, life is to short and you'll be fine without a women constantly nagging you about one thing or another, and at the end of the day you'll be better off not tied down with one. We are men, we need to be in control, not controlled. Great article I hope it helps.
I agree with your main points. There's definitely a large subset of women who are angered by men being happy/relaxed/content without any female involvement. And this is NOT limited to romantic relationships. A silly example: in hot weather I often wear a kilt. If I'm out shopping I'll often get compliments from straight guys. If the conversation goes more than 15-20 seconds there's almost always a woman coming up to us, giving me a dirty look as if I'm somehow doing something improper, and telling the guy they need to leave. My wearing a kilt is somehow threatening to her.... Seriously???
In World War 2 their were 12 million men in Uniform the whole country was mobilized to defeat Germany and Japan anyone in Uniform was considered a Hero their has never been a time when the whole country had bonded like this
All of them heros for defeating authoritarianism and tyranny. And we benefitted internally by coming together as one. A unique moment in American history. ✌️✌️🇺🇸🇺🇸
Congratulations on such a wonderfully researched and honest analysis of true Manhood was at that time uninhibited by unfortunate social fear and bigotry of today in terms of displaying untainted ❣ affection and appreciation for another person who happens to be of the same sex !Beautiful, photos and narration and vintage song .Thankyou for this beautiful era of human relations among these handsome American Soldiers!I really appreciated and enjoyed the nostalgia ❤Extremely Empowering!♥ 👍👏🤝✌👊🙏🌟🙏🏼
This is my new favorite channel, and I love the nuanced info you provide. I am not too much of the belief about labels, but if i must, I am i guess an "lgbt" man, and i love to see a channel that echoes things ive kind of felt about mens spaces. Why are we separated by our sexual interests? so unfair and stupid, we are all just brothers amongst one another. I wish we would ditch the "lgbt" labels, and just focus on individuals. I hate how society is trying so hard to separate people from one another.I really want people to realize that these identity politics of today is there to keep people apart .... to keep people from being connected from each other. Anyway, i love this channel, thank you for sharing such great information and such interesting perspectives. I really love to watch all of your content. At the end of the day we are all just men and women, and we should rejoice in our similarities, not assert our differences amongst each other. Elites benefit greatly from keeping us hating each other or being fearful of expressing even our most basic human needs (connection, love, closeness, camaraderie)
I love this comment! It sums up my take on the issues and you outline them perfectly. In complete agreement. We live today in a world of fake, made up categories and subcategories of men that only serves the interests of those in power; it also disempowers men as a whole as a divide and conquer strategy. Rather than be broken into subgroups I'd like to see men get back to being men. At the end of the day, while there's sexual diversity among men, we share more in common with one another than with women. We also find ourselves in a common predicament today, which is the systematic neutering and demonizing of men since the rise of sexual identity politics in the 1960s. So glad you commented, gives me inspiration. 💪✊✌️
One positive sign (IMO) is that the younger folk have started to define sexual orientation by whom you date on a regular basis. If a guy is widely known to date and pursue romantic relationships only with women he is straight. That he might have fun with his mates in between girlfriends is regarded as irrelevant. Personally, I think sex for fun and sex as part of love/romance/etc. would be regarded as separate things were men left to their own devices.
True. The purges to come in the US State Department are examples of those justified fears, an under-analyzed subject. A pity that parallels between McCarthyism and orthodoxy enforcement more broadly aren't drawn with today's cultural narratives, in which language and political beliefs are enforced through public pressure and shaming in general. Cancel culture and certain approaches to wokeism are no different from their predecessors.
Nunca vi algo malo o escandaloso, en el afecto de esos señores, es algo íntimo y privado , no sé , en mi época de eso no se habla y menos a juzgar de decoro o suciedad, los antiguos griegos y romanos, y los egipcios eso era divinizado....😢😢😢😮😮😮😮❤❤❤❤
It’s true, I see some of these pictures on channels saying they are gay couples, but in those days people were under stress and their lives depended on each other. I have East Indian friends today who will want to put their arms around my shoulders, but to them it’s natural.
The rules changed with the rise of sexual identity politics and feminism. When some men began to conceptually break away from gender as their primary identity in favor of sexual identities, women used ostracization as a means to control men's behaviors. If men veered from the prescribed path of behavior they were accused of being associated with the ostracized group of men, so men today walk in fear of that. They don't touch one another or develop strong relationships with other men. This reality is a social sickness that is the result of 1960s sexual and gender movements.
It's obvious their mates are important friends if not more. The pictures were preserved which says that to me. I wonder if any of their wives or girlfriends looked at them with suspision?
I can only hope that your continual look at masculinity during the 40s and 50s will eventually caused us to reassess the gap we have in same sex relationships and how much poorer in spirit we are since adopting these false divisions between men. Please speed our return to sanity!
✊✊✊ That's the goal! Let's look back, see what went wrong, and stop these made up, manufactured, nonsense divisions between men. Thanks so much for watching and supporting .👍💪
I'm sure we know where these divisions come from and who's responsible. We can no longer just go along because it's easier. In the big picture, it's not easier, and the implications from allowing it are deadly. So, take your stance on every issue you are involved in. We can no longer go with the flow. It's killing us.we can't lose any more ground, it's time to regain what has been lost. Men are like a bunch of puppies, we want to play and assume everything is good. It's not, the time is now!
This is really good stuff right here. We need to use it to take back what's been lost. It's no accident that men are the dominant sex. It's that way for a reason. Remember, the song says, "It's a man's world " we can never forget that.
I hear what you are saying. My father was in World Warll and would have no problem with most of the photos. But there were one or two that showed a little more affection than just best friends.
It's not hard to understand. Human bodies are contact-oriented. They need to be touched to be communicated with. If anyone needed physical communication and reassurance, it was the boys that went thousands of miles from home to fight our wars in harrowing conditions. Any line between "sexual" and "non-sexual" is mainly in the eye of the beholder. I doubt any after-the-fact, grad school theories of "gender roles" have a thing to do with it. Whatever happened in private (i.e., without a photographer) is pure speculation. There were some (not nearly all) of these very young guys who somehow "needed" sex with another human. Presumably they found each other and did what they needed to do, hopefully without shame. Then they returned to their civilian lives to have wives and children.
Well, it depends on what you mean. All human affection means something. It meant your dad shared a bond with someone and wasn't afraid to show it. Men were saving each others' lives during times of war and bloodshed. But bonds aren't synonymous with sexuality. That's the error that men today make. Men in the 1940s were unencumbered by fears of being labeled this or that. They were free and fully actualized human beings. They spoke up and showed their emotions. Men today have gone backwards in time, afraid of the social shaming that is the hallmark of our current reality.
Also the U.S. Armed Forces remained segregated until Pres. Harry Truman desegregated them with Executive Order #9981. That's why you don't see pictures of Black Men and White Men being close and bonding like these pictures. My father was a WWII Vet and he didn't have this bromance chance-he was trying to stay alive on both sides of the battles lines.
Exactly. It's about being authentic and impervious to behavioral controls. And it's about showing the people around you what you think of them and how your heart feels. Affection is a human emotional response that has nothing to do with sexuality, at its core.
I think it might have something to do with Military vets, worst in Vietnam vets. Men stopped getting friendly with each other when there's a low survival rate. Its emotional damage that was so widespread it actually became Generational Trauma. They passed it down to their kids in GenX by leaving us to be raised by the TV, and so the chain starts. Disgustingly enough, the homophobia became a convenient excuse to cover their emotional unavailability, their discomfort with physical affection. I dont know many Middle East era vets, so others will have to judge if the pattern fits. - GenX, raised by Silent Generation Navy Vet.
This is insightful, thank you. Being witness the trauma of that war, their subsequent rejection upon return, and then getting hammered with divisive sexual identity politics of the day that splintered men into factions inevitably warped or stole away the emotional lives from a whole generation of men. Thanks for the great comment.
Only the mortality rate was only slightly lower in Vietnam (2.1%) than it was in WWII (2.5%), so I don't see how it could have been worse in Vietnam vets. I think the bigger culprit was cultural change that happened as a result of WWII. Prior to the war America was more xenophobic; afterwards, they embraced their role as an international superpower. At the same time communism under the Soviet Union became a global threat to democracy and by extension America. Anything deemed "different" was seen as a possible threat, hence the rise of McCarthyism. Then there was censorship that imposed a puritanical moral code on TV that virtually eliminated sexuality (how was Ritchie Cunningham even conceived if Rob and Laura Petrie slept in separate twin bed?).
@daniel_sc1024 agreed that social movements following the war are the root, so to speak, of the issue hand. While McCarthy set the tone for cultural heterodoxy through brute force and shame, women picked up the baton used men's increasing forthrightness concerning the complex nature of men's sexuality as a means to threaten other men with association with subgroups of men who began to view sexuality as a primary identity rather than gender as previously. By threatening association through ostracized groups, women were able to begin controlling men's behaviors. Men subsequently grew fearful of this association and compliant with women's social engineering efforts, as they are today So, many post-war social movements came together to give rise to this distinctly American phenomenon. (Men abroad aren't the least bothered by male affection and yawn at this discussion.)
My parents were Silent Generation. They're like Boomers on steroids. They had very rigid views about how the world is/was and are uncomfortable with any kind of ambiguity or nonconformity. My Greatest Generation grandparents were much more open-minded.flexible, and pragmatic.
it goes to show that men require physical and emotional intimacy just as much as women. you look at the Saudi kingdom where outward public physical intimacy between women and men are discouraged, you see men resorting to holding hands with male friends as they walk down the streets
This is quite true, although I would hesitate to describe affection between men as resorting to something. This isn't a replacement for something that's lacking, it's a platonic level of honesty we don't see often today in the US due to socially engineered fears and phobias.
@gabelogan5877 Those countries are about order and hierarchy. They respect the roles defined by their faith. So women know their place and men cherish their bonds and legacy. In this country, EXTREME FEMINISM has destroyed our social fabric and the bonds between not only men and women but between men and fathers and sons as well.
I love seeing old pictures they look natural n honest,at a village in Bali u still can see men holding hand walking by the street n its common thing noting has to do with sexuality just bonding friends.
Indeed. American men were also more forthright about their affections and feelings in the 1940s, prior to the rise of reductionist sexual identities in the 1950s and 1960s. This psychological shift has seen American men avoiding such displays out of fear of being associated with an ostracized subgroup. Another warped effect is that younger generations of men unfamiliar with forthright displays of affection will automatically sexualize such displays. My hope is that deeper insights into the harmful aspects of manufactured sexual identities will help men understand how this has prevented generations of American men from honestly expressing mutual affections and developing meaningful relationships with other men.
Yes, it was brotherly love like two male lions who are brothers and control one pride of females sharing the duties of protections, patrolling the area duty. Nothing homosexual like today's narrow mind thinking.
We can't make assumptions either way based on the limited information a photograph offers, but in the majority of cases you're likely right on target. There's a tendency for people to see what they want to see, but this is dishonest. And the broader context is more important: men in times of war developed deep bonds and further, the cultural context of 1940s America did not impose the same behavioral restrictions on men as they do today in a world mired in late stage feminism. Men at the time were free to be themselves. We are seeing men in their natural, free state.
Today, August 11th 2024, I saw a morning segment on Fox News with the Host Will Cain touching other men above the waist quite a bit. For context, he was doing a special about men and group athletics to raise money for causes. Will Cain reminds me of one of these "long ago" men that had no problem with male affection because it wasn't about having a sexual encounter, but just good old fashion male comraderie.
your narration seems to gloss over the anti gay sentiments of the 40s and 50s. movies like Biloxi Blues and the Green Book show how things actually were. I'm old enough to remember jokes about FBI agents hiding in the stalls at the YMCA, where was the line drawn?
No doubt true that one would confusingly experience both homophobia as well as freedom of expression (affection) between men in the 1940s. Thank you for speaking up.
@familypondman Do professional athletes still display physical love between men? Without it being s8xual? All of the hugs and pats on the butt. Picking up your teammate with him straddling you. I would say pro athletes definitely display love.
Yes, the US Armed Forces were segregated during World War II. I do not see any men of color in these photos. If you can find some, I would like to see them.
Well everyone will have an opinion, certainly, but without knowing the men we can't know this from looking at photographs. There is a conceptual leap for many today unfamiliar with the culture of wartime and the pre-feminist 1940s that men's affections correlate to homosexuality. Perhaps some did, but the majority probably did not in purely statistical terms. Without going into the culture of war, men in the 1940s were not yet being socially engineered by women through the threat of ostracization which women have used post 1950s to control men's behaviors (and do today). Because this is now normalized, viewers of 1940s photographs will not understand it was a different social reality in the 1940s, devoid of the social engineering efforts of women that confine men to certain accepted behaviors. It is an unfortunate myth that men in the 1940s were emotionally stunted whereas men today are free. The opposite is true. Just look around.
Religion arguably exercised more influence throughout the 20th century when men felt comfortable with themselves, their bodies, and their masculinity, so not really. What changed post-1940s was the rise of sexual identitarianism and how w0men made use of it opportunistically as a shame tactic to control men's behaviors, because they saw post-Kinsey honestly concerning men's sexuality as a threat to their special status as the entitled recipients of male attention and utility. While the church may have acted as a reinforcement of this reactionary push for maintenance of the social status quo, it's never been the primary cause of these changes.
Men and women used to commonly show physical affection to each other routinely. My mother told me she and her friends would lock arms, put their arms around each other, cuddle up in a group. It wasn’t gay.
Often commenters here of a certain age recall this level of honesty, when people displayed affection without fear of judgment. It makes me smile to see such recollections.
In the 1980's, I was a regular customer at a hardware store owned by a WW2 veteran. He would help me find what I needed, and as he walked me up to the cash register he would always give me a friendly pat on my ass. I thought that was pretty cool that he could be that familiar with another guy and I didn't mind it at all.
Why is it kindness and affection between men automatically signals, "Oh they must be having sex." Why can't men be kind to each other without labels?
Exactly right. Men today have stripped of the ability of expressing affection and closeness with their brothers. Those unfamiliar with that social reality and the reasons behind the change will now equate affection and closeness as something sexual. The goal of the video is to make today's men aware of the fact they've been socially manipulated into believing that only men who have sex with men are allowed to demonstrate affection with their own gender. Earlier generations of men did not have these restrictions placed upon them, they were free from such damaging behavioral manipulation. Expressing love, friendship, support, camaraderie, affection are what make us authentically human.
Men, truth be known , even straight men need this touch badly from other guys
As a straight woman, I never thought men showing common affection - not anything wrong let alone homosexual, not that that is wrong. But come on, I rather see a hug than a fist.
Most of us Men are starved today for Male Bonding and Love that is not necessarily Homosexual or Gay. The Kinsey Report and others destroyed all natural Male Bonding and Relationships. As someone born in the early 1970s my generation really got the Brunt of stereotype destruction of any male bonding calling everything Fag and Faggot. All of us guys born in that time have identity issues because we were never allowed to express ourselves fully without being labled with those loathsome names and labels. 50 years later and I am finally seeing the light.
What many today may not understand or appreciate fully is the sense of justification that went along with people spitting out that vitriol. It was the level of acceptance of that behavior that made growing up during that period so hard and so destructive to so many men.
Homophobia originates in the feminine. Women know that questioning a mans' sexual orientation is the best way to shame and ridicule him into silence and relinquish his autonomy. There is no better way to control men.
Thanks again!
Some of these photos are really excellent! There are 2-3 of 2 sailors in their whites that are great!
Can't beat tropical whites as the coolest mikitary uniform if you ask me.
I was gay in the Marine Corps infantry, and literally nobody cared. There was a saying “any Port in a storm” a lot of people turn to bisexuality that didn’t mean they were gay necessarily. As a young man I had a great time.
I came out in May 1968 with my first partner, after serving 4 years with USAF. One of the DC gay bars was in Southeast, near the Marine barracks. Marines were reputed to be hot sexually. But, never say "gay" and NO KISSING!
Good reply. The entire concept of war is completely wrong in every aspect, but that's a different conversion for another time. The men that were involved in it were lucky to come back at all. I'm sure the guys involved could only find peace and comfort with the bonds they made with each other. For the young guys that were plucked from their homes and lives they were just starting out on, none of it made any sense at all. Most likely it was the first time in their lives that they were able to be themselves, and more importantly, the first time they didn't have some female pushing them around to be what they wanted them to be. I believe it's very hard to be a female. They change their minds every 5 minutes, so they don't even know what they want. It goes much further than not having dicks, but it definitely includes that. Just imagine looking down, and there's nothing there. I know I wouldn't like it. I think it's called "penis envey. Being female means they run on their emotions, and that's never good. People are people first, and then there is the assignment of gender ,and that's random, apparently. But I am grateful I was assigned male. Men in our society are pushed into categories and guess who is doing the pushing. But always remember this, we can't be catergozed if we don't want to be. So think for yourself, and don't allow it. It's so sad that most men do allow it. I don't understand why.
I guess if you where young and away from home and another guy was watching out for you and would be willing to save your life you would love that guy.
War breaks down artificial barriers. We understand clearly in life or death circumstances what is truly important. It's also true that to survive in such circumstances, you quickly understand how much we rely on one another's help, love, support, and assistance. Fall sick and you'll discover who your friends are.
For sure!
During War time America men probably felt it necessary to love ever moment and to feel every emotion for whoever was near. For tomorrow may never come for them. Or worse the friend you held so close to you yesterday may be going home in a box today. Affection for one another was the only way to maintain a sense of normalcy and sanity.
I once owned a collection of my two uncles photos. My uncle Bobby stormed the beaches at Normandy while his little brother Sidney took Berlin. You see I have a personal reasons for loving this channel. I have a deep rooted connection with these photos. Also I think I share a kindred spirit with you. Thanks.
I think it is difficult for us to grasp, beyond the periphery of war, what the psychological reality of living so tenuously from moment to moment must have been like. No doubt it would be like a separate reality. Thank you for your kind words and so pleased to hear that the photos are so meaningful to you 🙏.
this is such an important video...I feel *everyone* could benefit from seeing.
Thank you. Having a historical view of how realities have changed for men and why is important. Otherwise we're unaware of the damage that's been done and how we can navigate back to a healthier culture.
This collection of photos is amazing in and of itself - a real time capsule. I'd like to add that when I recently spent 3 weeks in Italy, I saw lots of affection between men that would be anathema in the USA. I wonder if this post-war rigidity regarding how males behave with one another is an American and/or Anglo-Saxon thing.
I was in the US Army 1972-4, and I didn't experience or see this kind of closeness, but I was never in a war zone or in any real danger, and I think that matters a lot.
WWII was happening, these young men dealt with death, horror and destruction while fight. Women played apart but, at that time they weren't sent into action. The solders became a family, with affection, respect, and love for one another because of their shared experiences. They were glad they were a live and made it home. This has nothing to do with sexuality, it's celebrating, life.
Contextual and historical context is important, thank you for providing this, and stated so elegantly.
I love these videos. I was in the AF in the 1970's, there was still male bonding and affection, not sexual. Just a sense of "we're all in this together". I had such good friends then.
Must have been a great time. Glad you enjoyed. 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Affection and sexuality were two distinctly different things. Today they are lumped together. If people today could show affection, without others interpreting it as sexuality, they wouldn't need all the prescriptions that are routinely taken for depression.
Of all the comments I've received for this video, this one is the best. Thank you for cutting into and exposing the issue so precisely.
Yes
When I was in the Navy in 1972,, There were guys that were touchy feely with ; thinking they were gay. But they weren’t. They were just super friendly!!
When the other sex are out of the equation, men are freer to be themselves. The normal peer pressures and manipulations no longer affect them. At the end of the day it's unhealthy to impose behavioral restrictions on men that prevent them from expressing basic aspects of their humanity. In war, the military, and in gendered spaces men return to masculine authenticity.
The spirit which animates man endlessly longs for affection. On a deeper level, the individual aspect of spirit wishes to reunite with itself in others. This union in friends Is strongest. There is one spirit. We all have a piece of it which gives us life. Like bugs to light we are attracted to the spiritual light within all of us. These men are proof of it. It can not be wrong. Light is good. To reunite with it is bliss. These men are feeling spiritual bliss together. That’s not sexual. That’s beautiful innocence.
Agree. To sexualize these images is to strip men of their humanity and to accept a normalized view of a dehumanized masculinity, the result of women's social engineering efforts through ostracization to restrict male attention to female partners.
Those were good and normal days when men are men
These photographs represent a broad spectrum of relationships among the men of that era. Of course, most of these guys were straight men bonding emotionally during long-term deployments. But, I know for a fact that a minority were Gay couples who found solace with one another. My dad was in the Navy and he told me that there were Gay relationships that remained on the down-low (hidden) from most of the crew. But, he said that they were good men and soldiers.
Platonic love among men is real💪👍 Subbed with notifications😊
Glad to have you here!
It's all very natural, the way it should be. I have always thought that men expressing physical feelings with one another is the way it be. These pictures are positive proof of how men feel about each other. One thing you will notice here are men being men with each other, as I said It's all very natural and enjoyable. So the one important thing that's missing in all these pictures is females. Females are very jealous and require 100% of men's attention. In other words, it's women. They won't allow a man to be shared with anyone, including other men. It's women that won't allow men to express themselves with other women or other men, and they will do anything they feel they have to to stop it, and that's just wrong. I'm 68 years old and never been married and never will. I like women, but could never be married to one. I submit that most men feel the same way I do but won't ever admit it to anyone, including themselves. Men put up with a lot of unnecessary drama with women and I don't know why. The best reasons I can come up with is women can't deal with sharing their feelings with anyone. It's women that hang all the negative things about men being friends with other women or other men. They usually end up using sex as a weapon (as Pat Benatar) points out in one of her very early songs. Women know thats all they have to control a man. All the tension between men and women is because of this issue. They should just relax, and chill out. Because men are going to do what they want,one way or another. They need to back all the way off, because they can't stop us. They can't stop me that's for sure,many have tried but I'm much stronger and smarter than they are. Come on guys don't ruin your life by battling the female drama, life is to short and you'll be fine without a women constantly nagging you about one thing or another, and at the end of the day you'll be better off not tied down with one. We are men, we need to be in control, not controlled. Great article I hope it helps.
It helps greatly, thank you sir! You are a role model so thanks for contributing. You perfectly sum up the whole purpose of this channel.
I agree with your main points. There's definitely a large subset of women who are angered by men being happy/relaxed/content without any female involvement. And this is NOT limited to romantic relationships. A silly example: in hot weather I often wear a kilt. If I'm out shopping I'll often get compliments from straight guys. If the conversation goes more than 15-20 seconds there's almost always a woman coming up to us, giving me a dirty look as if I'm somehow doing something improper, and telling the guy they need to leave. My wearing a kilt is somehow threatening to her.... Seriously???
In World War 2 their were 12 million men in Uniform the whole country was mobilized to defeat Germany and Japan anyone in Uniform was considered a Hero their has never been a time when the whole country had bonded like this
All of them heros for defeating authoritarianism and tyranny. And we benefitted internally by coming together as one. A unique moment in American history. ✌️✌️🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@808spelunk Watch the documentary Europa: The Last Battle.
Congratulations on such a wonderfully researched and honest analysis of true Manhood was at that time uninhibited by unfortunate social fear and bigotry of today in terms of displaying untainted ❣ affection and appreciation for another person who happens to be of the same sex !Beautiful, photos and narration and vintage song .Thankyou for this beautiful era of human relations among these handsome American Soldiers!I really appreciated and enjoyed the nostalgia ❤Extremely Empowering!♥ 👍👏🤝✌👊🙏🌟🙏🏼
Thank you for this great comment and for expressing the impact. Makes me excited to make similar content. Many thanks 👍👍👍
This is my new favorite channel, and I love the nuanced info you provide. I am not too much of the belief about labels, but if i must, I am i guess an "lgbt" man, and i love to see a channel that echoes things ive kind of felt about mens spaces. Why are we separated by our sexual interests? so unfair and stupid, we are all just brothers amongst one another. I wish we would ditch the "lgbt" labels, and just focus on individuals. I hate how society is trying so hard to separate people from one another.I really want people to realize that these identity politics of today is there to keep people apart .... to keep people from being connected from each other.
Anyway, i love this channel, thank you for sharing such great information and such interesting perspectives. I really love to watch all of your content.
At the end of the day we are all just men and women, and we should rejoice in our similarities, not assert our differences amongst each other. Elites benefit greatly from keeping us hating each other or being fearful of expressing even our most basic human needs (connection, love, closeness, camaraderie)
I love this comment! It sums up my take on the issues and you outline them perfectly. In complete agreement. We live today in a world of fake, made up categories and subcategories of men that only serves the interests of those in power; it also disempowers men as a whole as a divide and conquer strategy. Rather than be broken into subgroups I'd like to see men get back to being men. At the end of the day, while there's sexual diversity among men, we share more in common with one another than with women. We also find ourselves in a common predicament today, which is the systematic neutering and demonizing of men since the rise of sexual identity politics in the 1960s. So glad you commented, gives me inspiration. 💪✊✌️
One positive sign (IMO) is that the younger folk have started to define sexual orientation by whom you date on a regular basis. If a guy is widely known to date and pursue romantic relationships only with women he is straight. That he might have fun with his mates in between girlfriends is regarded as irrelevant. Personally, I think sex for fun and sex as part of love/romance/etc. would be regarded as separate things were men left to their own devices.
Been watching for a few weeks, finally subscribed. Fascinating subject.
Awesome, thank you!
Ar 5:37 this is a rather typical shot on navy ships: the tallest and shortest sailors on the ship photographed together.
Love it !!
McCarthyism made normally affectionate men worry that their actions would be taken "the wrong way" and jeopardize their employment.
True. The purges to come in the US State Department are examples of those justified fears, an under-analyzed subject. A pity that parallels between McCarthyism and orthodoxy enforcement more broadly aren't drawn with today's cultural narratives, in which language and political beliefs are enforced through public pressure and shaming in general. Cancel culture and certain approaches to wokeism are no different from their predecessors.
Nunca vi algo malo o escandaloso, en el afecto de esos señores, es algo íntimo y privado , no sé , en mi época de eso no se habla y menos a juzgar de decoro o suciedad, los antiguos griegos y romanos, y los egipcios eso era divinizado....😢😢😢😮😮😮😮❤❤❤❤
It’s true, I see some of these pictures on channels saying they are gay couples, but in those days people were under stress and their lives depended on each other. I have East Indian friends today who will want to put their arms around my shoulders, but to them it’s natural.
The rules changed with the rise of sexual identity politics and feminism. When some men began to conceptually break away from gender as their primary identity in favor of sexual identities, women used ostracization as a means to control men's behaviors. If men veered from the prescribed path of behavior they were accused of being associated with the ostracized group of men, so men today walk in fear of that. They don't touch one another or develop strong relationships with other men. This reality is a social sickness that is the result of 1960s sexual and gender movements.
It is natural in football teams as well. Men bond through hunting together but it isn't sexual.
It's obvious their mates are important friends if not more. The pictures were preserved which says that to me. I wonder if any of their wives or girlfriends looked at them with suspision?
I can only hope that your continual look at masculinity during the 40s and 50s will eventually caused us to reassess the gap we have in same sex relationships and how much poorer in spirit we are since adopting these false divisions between men. Please speed our return to sanity!
✊✊✊ That's the goal! Let's look back, see what went wrong, and stop these made up, manufactured, nonsense divisions between men. Thanks so much for watching and supporting .👍💪
I'm sure we know where these divisions come from and who's responsible. We can no longer just go along because it's easier. In the big picture, it's not easier, and the implications from allowing it are deadly. So, take your stance on every issue you are involved in. We can no longer go with the flow. It's killing us.we can't lose any more ground, it's time to regain what has been lost. Men are like a bunch of puppies, we want to play and assume everything is good. It's not, the time is now!
This is really good stuff right here. We need to use it to take back what's been lost. It's no accident that men are the dominant sex. It's that way for a reason. Remember, the song says, "It's a man's world " we can never forget that.
I hear what you are saying. My father was in World Warll and would have no problem with most of the photos. But there were one or two that showed a little more affection than just best friends.
Could well be!
It's not hard to understand. Human bodies are contact-oriented. They need to be touched to be communicated with. If anyone needed physical communication and reassurance, it was the boys that went thousands of miles from home to fight our wars in harrowing conditions. Any line between "sexual" and "non-sexual" is mainly in the eye of the beholder. I doubt any after-the-fact, grad school theories of "gender roles" have a thing to do with it. Whatever happened in private (i.e., without a photographer) is pure speculation. There were some (not nearly all) of these very young guys who somehow "needed" sex with another human. Presumably they found each other and did what they needed to do, hopefully without shame. Then they returned to their civilian lives to have wives and children.
I used to have a photo of my dad from WW2 taken in N. Africa embracing one of his Navy buddies , I'm sure it meant nothing ..
Well, it depends on what you mean. All human affection means something. It meant your dad shared a bond with someone and wasn't afraid to show it. Men were saving each others' lives during times of war and bloodshed. But bonds aren't synonymous with sexuality. That's the error that men today make. Men in the 1940s were unencumbered by fears of being labeled this or that. They were free and fully actualized human beings. They spoke up and showed their emotions. Men today have gone backwards in time, afraid of the social shaming that is the hallmark of our current reality.
Also the U.S. Armed Forces remained segregated until Pres. Harry Truman desegregated them with Executive Order #9981. That's why you don't see pictures of Black Men and White Men being close and bonding like these pictures. My father was a WWII Vet and he didn't have this bromance chance-he was trying to stay alive on both sides of the battles lines.
I must say being frequently among other men. A arm over another man’s shoulder in a photography is not a sign of homosexuality at all!
Exactly. It's about being authentic and impervious to behavioral controls. And it's about showing the people around you what you think of them and how your heart feels. Affection is a human emotional response that has nothing to do with sexuality, at its core.
I think it might have something to do with Military vets, worst in Vietnam vets. Men stopped getting friendly with each other when there's a low survival rate. Its emotional damage that was so widespread it actually became Generational Trauma. They passed it down to their kids in GenX by leaving us to be raised by the TV, and so the chain starts. Disgustingly enough, the homophobia became a convenient excuse to cover their emotional unavailability, their discomfort with physical affection.
I dont know many Middle East era vets, so others will have to judge if the pattern fits.
- GenX, raised by Silent Generation Navy Vet.
This is insightful, thank you. Being witness the trauma of that war, their subsequent rejection upon return, and then getting hammered with divisive sexual identity politics of the day that splintered men into factions inevitably warped or stole away the emotional lives from a whole generation of men. Thanks for the great comment.
Only the mortality rate was only slightly lower in Vietnam (2.1%) than it was in WWII (2.5%), so I don't see how it could have been worse in Vietnam vets. I think the bigger culprit was cultural change that happened as a result of WWII. Prior to the war America was more xenophobic; afterwards, they embraced their role as an international superpower. At the same time communism under the Soviet Union became a global threat to democracy and by extension America. Anything deemed "different" was seen as a possible threat, hence the rise of McCarthyism. Then there was censorship that imposed a puritanical moral code on TV that virtually eliminated sexuality (how was Ritchie Cunningham even conceived if Rob and Laura Petrie slept in separate twin bed?).
@daniel_sc1024 agreed that social movements following the war are the root, so to speak, of the issue hand. While McCarthy set the tone for cultural heterodoxy through brute force and shame, women picked up the baton used men's increasing forthrightness concerning the complex nature of men's sexuality as a means to threaten other men with association with subgroups of men who began to view sexuality as a primary identity rather than gender as previously. By threatening association through ostracized groups, women were able to begin controlling men's behaviors. Men subsequently grew fearful of this association and compliant with women's social engineering efforts, as they are today So, many post-war social movements came together to give rise to this distinctly American phenomenon. (Men abroad aren't the least bothered by male affection and yawn at this discussion.)
My parents were Silent Generation. They're like Boomers on steroids. They had very rigid views about how the world is/was and are uncomfortable with any kind of ambiguity or nonconformity. My Greatest Generation grandparents were much more open-minded.flexible, and pragmatic.
At 3:33, these are twins, no?
it goes to show that men require physical and emotional intimacy just as much as women. you look at the Saudi kingdom where outward public physical intimacy between women and men are discouraged, you see men resorting to holding hands with male friends as they walk down the streets
This is quite true, although I would hesitate to describe affection between men as resorting to something. This isn't a replacement for something that's lacking, it's a platonic level of honesty we don't see often today in the US due to socially engineered fears and phobias.
@gabelogan5877 Those countries are about order and hierarchy. They respect the roles defined by their faith. So women know their place and men cherish their bonds and legacy. In this country, EXTREME FEMINISM has destroyed our social fabric and the bonds between not only men and women but between men and fathers and sons as well.
The good ole days...
I love the commentary in this video ❤️
I love seeing old pictures they look natural n honest,at a village in Bali u still can see men holding hand walking by the street n its common thing noting has to do with sexuality just bonding friends.
Indeed. American men were also more forthright about their affections and feelings in the 1940s, prior to the rise of reductionist sexual identities in the 1950s and 1960s. This psychological shift has seen American men avoiding such displays out of fear of being associated with an ostracized subgroup. Another warped effect is that younger generations of men unfamiliar with forthright displays of affection will automatically sexualize such displays. My hope is that deeper insights into the harmful aspects of manufactured sexual identities will help men understand how this has prevented generations of American men from honestly expressing mutual affections and developing meaningful relationships with other men.
Yes, it was brotherly love like two male lions who are brothers and control one pride of females sharing the duties of protections, patrolling the area duty. Nothing homosexual like today's narrow mind thinking.
We can't make assumptions either way based on the limited information a photograph offers, but in the majority of cases you're likely right on target. There's a tendency for people to see what they want to see, but this is dishonest. And the broader context is more important: men in times of war developed deep bonds and further, the cultural context of 1940s America did not impose the same behavioral restrictions on men as they do today in a world mired in late stage feminism. Men at the time were free to be themselves. We are seeing men in their natural, free state.
Did you make a book of those pics? If so where can I find it?
Interesting idea! Thanks. Just video for now alas. ✌️👍✌️👍
Today, August 11th 2024, I saw a morning segment on Fox News with the Host Will Cain touching other men above the waist quite a bit. For context, he was doing a special about men and group athletics to raise money for causes. Will Cain reminds me of one of these "long ago" men that had no problem with male affection because it wasn't about having a sexual encounter, but just good old fashion male comraderie.
Clearly a man comfortable in his own skin, just as men once were in the 1940s.
your narration seems to gloss over the anti gay sentiments of the 40s and 50s. movies like Biloxi Blues and the Green Book show how things actually were. I'm old enough to remember jokes about FBI agents hiding in the stalls at the YMCA, where was the line drawn?
No doubt true that one would confusingly experience both homophobia as well as freedom of expression (affection) between men in the 1940s. Thank you for speaking up.
Because today everything is sexual and love in most times has nothing to do with it for sure!
@familypondman Do professional athletes still display physical love between men? Without it being s8xual? All of the hugs and pats on the butt. Picking up your teammate with him straddling you. I would say pro athletes definitely display love.
Me encantó che...Shöne...
Έρως και Ψυχή...
Yes, the US Armed Forces were segregated during World War II. I do not see any men of color in these photos. If you can find some, I would like to see them.
I'll be mindful to include in future vids. Thanks.
The Kinsey report is now generally regarded as junk science.
Doesn't matter, the impact on society is/was the important aspect here.
No it ain't
Yes , and it's about time. Kinsey did enough damage.
Lot of us have more info in male sexuality than Kinsey ever dreamed of having.
Agree it was a special time, but many of these are gay couples - my gaydar is very good. 😮
Well everyone will have an opinion, certainly, but without knowing the men we can't know this from looking at photographs. There is a conceptual leap for many today unfamiliar with the culture of wartime and the pre-feminist 1940s that men's affections correlate to homosexuality. Perhaps some did, but the majority probably did not in purely statistical terms. Without going into the culture of war, men in the 1940s were not yet being socially engineered by women through the threat of ostracization which women have used post 1950s to control men's behaviors (and do today). Because this is now normalized, viewers of 1940s photographs will not understand it was a different social reality in the 1940s, devoid of the social engineering efforts of women that confine men to certain accepted behaviors. It is an unfortunate myth that men in the 1940s were emotionally stunted whereas men today are free. The opposite is true. Just look around.
I definitely agree: some are absolutely gay- which is completely fine and normal. Gay people in the world is a normal fact if life .
@@steveb7429 No it isn't.
Religion is responsible, totally
Religion arguably exercised more influence throughout the 20th century when men felt comfortable with themselves, their bodies, and their masculinity, so not really. What changed post-1940s was the rise of sexual identitarianism and how w0men made use of it opportunistically as a shame tactic to control men's behaviors, because they saw post-Kinsey honestly concerning men's sexuality as a threat to their special status as the entitled recipients of male attention and utility. While the church may have acted as a reinforcement of this reactionary push for maintenance of the social status quo, it's never been the primary cause of these changes.