I love your analysis. I have never seen this movie, but I love one aspect of the score. It could have very easily spoiled the ending if it followed a compositional convention, but it did not. We already have an almost universally accepted musical motif for death: the first four notes of the dies irae, used in countless films to foreshadow death. However, JNH knew that the concept of death in this movie was not generic, but a major element of the story, and so he made a personalized death motif to communicate it accurately to the film. Stick to the story indeed.
it doesn’t “spoil” the ending, the whole reason the movie is great is that it tells you something about the ending 500 times ... but you don’t realize it until the ending happens ... this is just another example
What do you guys think? Do you agree? Am I completely wrong? Let me know below! Edit: So, I originally made this back in July and kinda forgot it existed until recently. After revisiting it, I'm not sure how well it actually holds up to scrutiny, but I suppose it deserves to see the light of day anyway. Thanks!
Yes it's correct of course, this kind of thing is done very often in films. Repeating a theme in different forms all throughout a film at particular moments so that it increases the impact when a huge event finally takes place and the theme is played in full intensity. I don't think here it would be enough to actually reveal the ending to someone on first viewing though.
I don't think people would be consciously thinking about the reoccurrence of thematic ideas throughout the film on first viewing. Going off topic, I only noticed the other day that in Forrest Gump, Alan Silvestri used the same piano motif for when Jenny and Forrest are praying in the field for Jenny to turn into a butterfly, and when they are remembering that moment before he is shipped off to Vietnam...and I'm a massive movie music nerd and I've seen that film at least 100 times! However I do think that this score, plus the ending cue is an absolute master piece. To go from suspense, to scare, to then heartbreak in 6 minutes and to have it seamlessly flow from one idiom to the other is sheer brilliance. Not many composers can pull that off well.
I think you've absolutely got the point here. After seeing it all written in black and white, it hit me that the whole soundtrack might be a puzzle, of which the "death motif", associated with Malcolm, is the key element, without which it would feel very incomplete. I'm revisiting the soundtrack right now, after a couple of years of not having listened to it, and some cues (I particularly have the beginning of "Mind Reading" in mind) have a very interesting, almost medieval feel to themselves, which also makes a lot of sense, when to consider that the movie deals with the spiritual side of a human mind. Also, this series, and everything you do here is very useful and insightful for me, as a wannabe composer of mainly orchestral music (and you have this reassuring and somehow soothing quality about your voice that really draws me to "Composer Toolbox" every single time around). Keep up the good, and needed work. Once again, thank you for everything you do.
Hey David, I really like your editing style and clarity in the video. That's obviously really important. Have you by any chance read Andy Hill's book "Scoring the Screen: the Secret Language of Film Music?" This score is covered in the introduction, although I don't think he made this exact point or connection (I could be wrong, it's been a while). That's still a good find and an interesting use of a motif. I'd be up for more videos like this one!
This is definitely an interesting idea, and seems like it could make sense! I’d also like to ask, would you be willing to do some more score reductions for Indiana Jones, as its 40th Anniversary is coming up? Maybe ‘The Fight on the Flying Wing,’ ‘Scherzo for Motorcycle & Orchestra,’ or ‘Belly of the Steel Beast?’ You do some really sick things, so keep it up!
I think the main way how Howard's music spoils the ending is that damn title of the final track. I listened to the score before I watched the film and because of this I already knew how it would end🤣
Hey, have you listened to the Bridgerton soundtrack? I found the rearranging of pop music abit interesting. Would you be interested in doing an analysis?
I agree it does everything you say - and I would assume it did it completely on purpose. Making just one more of the many, many bread crumbs Shyamalan laid out for the audience throughout the film.... all purposefully placed as though to yell "Don't you get it? Can't you take the hint?". But we didn't - I would venture few picked up any of those crumbs and pondered "Hmm..." So "spoils the ending"???? Just the opposite - the absurd amount of unnoticed foreshadowing was the whole point of the ending - heck, the whole film. But I think it's great to draw notice to how Howard did his part for this "deception in plain sight" masterpiece along with some many of the other creatives that contributed to this film.
Ehh, I don’t think that motif spoiled the ending, It was foreshadowing but only apparent and only fully appreciated after the big plot twist reveal. But yes it was a good analysis 👌
I love your analysis. I have never seen this movie, but I love one aspect of the score. It could have very easily spoiled the ending if it followed a compositional convention, but it did not. We already have an almost universally accepted musical motif for death: the first four notes of the dies irae, used in countless films to foreshadow death. However, JNH knew that the concept of death in this movie was not generic, but a major element of the story, and so he made a personalized death motif to communicate it accurately to the film. Stick to the story indeed.
it doesn’t “spoil” the ending, the whole reason the movie is great is that it tells you something about the ending 500 times ... but you don’t realize it until the ending happens ... this is just another example
What do you guys think? Do you agree? Am I completely wrong? Let me know below!
Edit: So, I originally made this back in July and kinda forgot it existed until recently. After revisiting it, I'm not sure how well it actually holds up to scrutiny, but I suppose it deserves to see the light of day anyway. Thanks!
Yes it's correct of course, this kind of thing is done very often in films. Repeating a theme in different forms all throughout a film at particular moments so that it increases the impact when a huge event finally takes place and the theme is played in full intensity. I don't think here it would be enough to actually reveal the ending to someone on first viewing though.
@@loot6 I agree. It’s more telling the story (stick to the story) through music than giving anything away.
I don't think people would be consciously thinking about the reoccurrence of thematic ideas throughout the film on first viewing. Going off topic, I only noticed the other day that in Forrest Gump, Alan Silvestri used the same piano motif for when Jenny and Forrest are praying in the field for Jenny to turn into a butterfly, and when they are remembering that moment before he is shipped off to Vietnam...and I'm a massive movie music nerd and I've seen that film at least 100 times!
However I do think that this score, plus the ending cue is an absolute master piece. To go from suspense, to scare, to then heartbreak in 6 minutes and to have it seamlessly flow from one idiom to the other is sheer brilliance. Not many composers can pull that off well.
I think you've absolutely got the point here. After seeing it all written in black and white, it hit me that the whole soundtrack might be a puzzle, of which the "death motif", associated with Malcolm, is the key element, without which it would feel very incomplete. I'm revisiting the soundtrack right now, after a couple of years of not having listened to it, and some cues (I particularly have the beginning of "Mind Reading" in mind) have a very interesting, almost medieval feel to themselves, which also makes a lot of sense, when to consider that the movie deals with the spiritual side of a human mind. Also, this series, and everything you do here is very useful and insightful for me, as a wannabe composer of mainly orchestral music (and you have this reassuring and somehow soothing quality about your voice that really draws me to "Composer Toolbox" every single time around). Keep up the good, and needed work. Once again, thank you for everything you do.
I would love to see more James Newton Howard scores content from your channel!
Hey David, I really like your editing style and clarity in the video. That's obviously really important. Have you by any chance read Andy Hill's book "Scoring the Screen: the Secret Language of Film Music?" This score is covered in the introduction, although I don't think he made this exact point or connection (I could be wrong, it's been a while). That's still a good find and an interesting use of a motif. I'd be up for more videos like this one!
This is definitely an interesting idea, and seems like it could make sense! I’d also like to ask, would you be willing to do some more score reductions for Indiana Jones, as its 40th Anniversary is coming up? Maybe ‘The Fight on the Flying Wing,’ ‘Scherzo for Motorcycle & Orchestra,’ or ‘Belly of the Steel Beast?’ You do some really sick things, so keep it up!
Been thinking about doing some more Indiana Jones for a bit. Good idea!
I think the main way how Howard's music spoils the ending is that damn title of the final track. I listened to the score before I watched the film and because of this I already knew how it would end🤣
Please do an análisis of Alexander Nevsky of Prokofiev or of a film of Korngold (as Robin Hood)
Hey, have you listened to the Bridgerton soundtrack? I found the rearranging of pop music abit interesting. Would you be interested in doing an analysis?
I agree it does everything you say - and I would assume it did it completely on purpose. Making just one more of the many, many bread crumbs Shyamalan laid out for the audience throughout the film.... all purposefully placed as though to yell "Don't you get it? Can't you take the hint?". But we didn't - I would venture few picked up any of those crumbs and pondered "Hmm..." So "spoils the ending"???? Just the opposite - the absurd amount of unnoticed foreshadowing was the whole point of the ending - heck, the whole film. But I think it's great to draw notice to how Howard did his part for this "deception in plain sight" masterpiece along with some many of the other creatives that contributed to this film.
You used a MAC from 1984 to do you "search"? Is the search still running?
Ehh, I don’t think that motif spoiled the ending, It was foreshadowing but only apparent and only fully appreciated after the big plot twist reveal. But yes it was a good analysis 👌
Yeah, the word "spoiled" is probably a bit of an exaggeration... :)
Overthinking lol