Disoriented student pilot cause chaos in unfamiliar airport!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Audio source Liveatc.net
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• Confused Pilot gets LO...
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"I'm not too familiar with the airport, so I'll just taxi straight to the airport" 😮
The kid was flustered and possibly going into task overload at that point, but I do give him credit for remaining polite and humble throughout.
Hopefully he takes this all to heart and prepares much better for his next cross-country.
Absolutely. He also said sorry end of the conversation
Hope so, since he’s had 30 years to get better:) He might be a retired airline pilot by now.
I’ll give the controller some dings here:
Obviously working with a beginner, he has given him three different runway assignments, directed him to an unfamiliar landmark and asked him to pick his choice of runways instead of assigning one.
He should have stuck with “ enter right downwind for …” and give additional progressives for that if he couldn’t
He gave three different runway assignments because the pilot was all of the place and gave him the runway close to where the pilot was pointed. The controller gave the water tower because when pointed at it, you cannot miss it. When the pilot stated they weren't familiar and couldn't see it, the controller gave suggested headings...
The controller did everything right.
A slab of cement . 😂 From now on when the tower gives me landing 32,I’m answering “ cement slab 32”. This is good ( but sad )
@@tmb1065 😂
Sorry for the mistake
That was pretty obnoxious on the controllers part, he knows he has an inexperienced and a little disoriented student on his hands, you don’t want to make him more nervous in such a situation…. in any case those kinds of extraneous comments are verboten in radio comms….
Well this will re-ignite my nightmares. I was 15 and got caught in IMC on my long cross country. Total FUBAR. I got the number to call the tower and three hours later had my instructor waiting for me on the tarmac to kick my ass. In hindsight I'm glad they called the flight school and not the FAA but it's humiliating. That was the day I learned humiliating is the lesser off all evils in an aircraft.
Jesus glad you made it out alive though.
I thought I had it bad. I got lost on my long cross and was freaking out. Fortunately, many airports along the way. I got a call from an instructor at another airport who told me to land. I did and he talked me down to calm me and asked me if I was using my VOR. I told him I was and kept having to move the course button. He explained to me that I was flying in a large arc and asked me if anyone had ever taught me to use it. No. (This was in 1982.) He gave me a brief lesson and I made it. He then told me to make sure I told my instructor what happened. The problem back then was I had 3 different instructors, but one of them was an ex Marine pilot. He let me have it, but was the best instructor ever!
Yes, the pilot became confused, it has happened to most of us. Sarcasm wasn't the most appropriate response although I would agree the controller kept the environment as safe as he could. Certainly, if you're going to an unfamiliar airport, it's important to research the heck out of it. I do. Charts for approach, taxi, procedures, can seem ott at the time but I've been really pleased with the pre flight preparation on occasions.
Once I landed, I would have said "I'm embarrassingly unprepared to fly into this airport. I'm going straight home to study a lot harder and be familiar with any destination I fly to in the future, so as to this never happens again". That's the proper solution to this.
😀
Negative, he should go home and fire his CFI, report him or her to the school, if applicable, and find a competent trainer that prepares him better for flying into that complicated an environment.
@@RetreadPhotodamn who broke your heart 😂 everyone makes mistakes especially commercial pilots sometimes makes far worst mistakes than this
@@RetreadPhotoi will sue my teachers for incompetence as they were not able to make me be an heart surgeon.
@@amxlopez8082negative. That instructor is negligent and most likely didn’t provide the required training for solo flight to that airport.
Solo takeoffs and landings at another airport within 25 NM: 14 CFR 61.93(b)(1)
The endorsement is not limited to a make and model of aircraft (valid for all make and models the student pilot is authorized to solo).
The endorsement does not expire, but the student pilot must have a current solo flight endorsement.
The student pilot is not required to receive cross-country flight training or have a cross-country endorsement.
The endorsement must be specific to a single airport. Multiple endorsements can be made.
The purpose of the flight must be to practice takeoffs and landings at that other airport.
The student pilot must receive training that includes flights in both directions over the route, entering and exiting the traffic pattern, and takeoffs and landings at the other airport.
This is a kind of controller that makes pilots exasperated. You make your comrades pay for it for a lifetime.😅
That's totally normal by the way. We all start somewhere; and even senior pilots still make mistakes. At least the pilot was able to communicate effectively even though he was unfamiliar with the airport. Easy fix.
When I was instructing, I did not send any of my students to an airport that we didn't fly to together OR I'd brief the hell out of them before they went on their cross-country.
My biggest points to sign someone off for solo were: radio communication literacy, familiarity with the local area and airplane, and the biggest, the ability to handle stressful events while maintaining positive control of the airplane and their situational awareness.
You needed to demonstrate all three in order for me to sign you off. I see too many instructors signing their students off who clearly aren't prepared and are more of a threat to themselves and others.
I agree that this is a CFI failure. It was drilled into me that I should be familiar with the destination AND alternates along the way before even driving to the airport. This also meant having printed paper ground plates for each airport and alternatives along the way. My CFI shows me the old-school way of printing it out, folding it all, and stacking it in flight order so it basically is a flip-chart on a kneeboard/clipboard. Yes, I have Foreflight with the geo-referenced ground plates on it, but my CFI strongly discouraged me from using it until AFTER all of my cross-country requirements had been met first. I still prepare on the ground with the paper printouts and now do a quick 5 minute poke in MS FS2020 to familiarize myself with the area before heading out to the airport. This also includes looking for places to land in case the engine packs up, especially after TO at an unfamiliar airport.
@@grayrabbit2211 Bravo, my school never had a rule against electronic flight bags, but I strongly discouraged it until my students showed proficiency with said EFB.
As a long-haul pilot, I must say that it does not look so bad to me and that I've seen much worse...
Pilot and controller maintained etiquette. despite the confusion. Kudos to ATC , he was patient and made correct suggestions to this pilot. Good work.
Ive flown in to this airport 100's of times. this is a hard airport to navigate for sure but this dude was clueless. but its definitely not a airport an instructor should send a student to. Above it has ORD's bravo to the west it has Schaumberg airport and to the north west is PWK's delta. its sort surrounded you need complete situational control to get in there effectively.
I used to fly out of Schaumberg. Being so close to ORD made it interesting.
An airport with multiple runways at weird angles can be incredibly disorienting, even if you're prepared. Not easy to find these runways once you're at or close to TPA. I have landed onto a taxiway short of a runway in a similar situation, the field was an old shuttle landing spot with a hundred runways and taxiways all looking the same and the sun in my eyes.
They're just picking on the student. What did they look like on their First day of the job. a pilot was making up for your mistakes. Sick of it.
Rumor has it that kid didn't hold short of Runway 10.
😅
No. There's no rumour. Try using your own words.😂😂😂😂😂
Am I the only one who was expecting much worse?
It could end up much worse
@@Flight_Follower But it didn’t.
Worst controller, he is supposed to actually help and promote safety, he has the wrong personality for this job.
I could never have been a controller, I just don't have the patience...
“Which slab of concrete would you like to land on?”
🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Lol
Years ago I got reamed out there too as a new pilot. Landed well as instructed but made the mistake of not asking for progressive taxi. Got lost, then got scolded. Lol I deserved it for not speaking up.
Unless they have changed the training a student pilot does a cross country into a tower-controlled airport WITH the instructor first before being released to do so solo. During my training, my CFI went over the airport in Macon Georgia. Advised me to go over to the Flight Service Station and meet somebody there. The day I departed my home airport I felt ready. Even with all the time spent with me I quickly found myself overwhelmed by the situation and almost decided to do a 180 and return home. Listening to this video I see a cynical controller destroying the poor student's confidence. As someone who has been in and out of airports with lots of student activity, I can tell you I have seen controllers EVEN in busy airspace be much more gentle with the poor guy trying to learn. I sure would love to see all the mistakes this controller made during his training!
The only thing that requires a student to go to a particular airport with an instructor before going to that airport solo is if the student will be endorsed to make repeated solo flights there.
Otherwise with the one time endorsement, a student can go to a place for the first time while solo.
Since every airport is different, this guy could have flown out of many other airports with no issue, but get flustered with trying to see the right landmarks at this one.
@@rodneyhooverCFI That was not what I said. I admitted the training might have changed since I was a student pilot. I said the instructor went with the student on the first cross country THEN was released solo. If I remember correctly that first cross country also had to be a tower controlled airport. However, my main point was my instructor spent several hours with me talking about Macon. This man was also an A&P mechanic and would teach while working. As I said I THOUGHT I was ready, but once Atlanta Center handed me off I quickly got overwhelmed.
Didn't sound that bad... In my dreams, I experienced worse before my checkride.
Well I have screwed up before so no need for me to judge.
It’s not unusual to not see the air port… you just say that you don’t see it and they are supposed to direct you until you do….
It might not be something that the controller wants to deal with but whatever.
The controller was not being patient with the guy he was spotlighting his inexperience and the guy was just apologizing for it.
I can’t say I’m not guilty of this. It’s probably not a student. Student are better prepared. When low time and cross country, being a bit cocky, flying into unfamiliar airport unprepared, causing trouble and realizing you are little fish and you always need to be prepared. Hang in there and learn, do better next time. We’ve all been there.
My training airport years ago. I’ve never heard the controllers other than professional and kind
Do u know this controller? He seems very professional to me.
@@Flight_Follower I agree he sounds professional as they all were that I remember. I do not recognize his voice, but it’s been 20+ years. Back when it was allowed, two of them were gracious hosts to my instructor, myself and a fellow student when we requested a brief tower tour during a slow time of day. The controller said he valued giving new/student pilots who fly there a glimpse of the controllers perspective to improve communication skills. I believe I benefited and am grateful for it
That and a useless detail that I recall my first impression was to enjoying noticing a poster for the movie “Pushing Tin” on the wall just outside the control room. I wonder if it’s still there?
Criminy sakes…Dude needs more in-class training.
SMFH. Has no business flying solo.
Never.
Call the runway in sight that'll Get them. Make them do some work. How about I give you your next check.😢
The controller seems to have an attitude. but the pilot needs more lessons.
I don’t want the stress (and risks) of flying.
A&P/IA
I've seen a LOT worse on the channels that do videos like these. I feel like some context (either to help or hurt this student) is missing ..like his flight path.
ATC was more patient than I could have been. I would have denied him permission to land there.
Si, instead of being helpful to a new pilot, you would have been your usual dick self
Atc guy was fantastic and very helpful
wow yeah whoever signed that students book for a solo into this airport needs to have a smack
they are lucky he didnt end up like that cirrus down in dallas
being new and solo it doesnt take much to become saturated add in he really lost SA on it so big applause to that controller for not going off on the guy and making it worse he did give it to him once on the ground
I agree with some points. However, Atc guy was extremely professional
I disagree. It is ATCs job to help the guy orient himself. Calling out landmarks instead of vectors is silly.
Also scolding him before he is in a safe situation could have major consequences. They need to remember that he is a student and he is above the ground in an airplane while they are safe in the tower showing him their aggravation.
2:07 - I heard an f-bomb being exclaimed in the tower there
The Chicago airspace is probably the safest least busy airspace to be lost - NOT
😅
Average foreflight student
Cool,my airport finally
Kudos to the controller. For the rest of us new pilots out here, let's not exceed our proficiency! Not only do you make a fool of yourself, but you're making life miserable for multiple other people!
Fire the CFI.
Why doesn't ATC ever ask a pilot to tune NAV radios (VOR for advanced and ADF for novice) and tell them to turn the OBS for a VOR bearing to get to it and then to a VOR radial to go away from it, and if only using the ADF tell them to turn the aircraft until the arrow points up and then follow a heading once it flips to point down?
Dude, holy Christ. It’s a visual pattern. Those techniques you mentioned are fine for helping gain SA but only if you actually understand them intimately enough to tune the correct things in and interpret them correctly.
You’d also have to do it beforehand because trying to set all that up on a downwind gives you such little time that hopefully a pilot experienced enough to be able to do it would have already thought of that beforehand and had it all ready to go or likely wouldn’t need them anyway. That kind of experience a student pilot probably wouldn’t have and definitely wouldn’t need since they should be able to see the runway.
Just read your comment over again and imagine how much the comms would get clogged up by spewing all that out, and how flustered a student pilot would get trying to listen to all that while they’re already confused, then assuming they even understood it correctly have to pull up an unfamiliar navaid frequency (or two since you mentioned the ADF), tune in the course, and be able to understand what it says. That would be like bastardized instrument flying and proper instrument flying is way beyond the scope of PPL anyway. Besides, not all airports have those kinds of navaids located on the field. But every pilot has reliable Mk1 eyeballs to fall back on. A lot of student pilots already are bad at aviate, navigate, communicate, and navigating first in a VFR pattern is a recipe for disaster
@@bigblue207 Indeed, but imo an incoming plane without a competent pilot is an emergency, so I'd divert all other aircraft and teach this one to use something since "red and white checkered water tower" didn't work.
Also, look how much time was actually taken up instead of giving the pilot a phone number.
Air Traffic Controllers should use ATC Radios for Air Traffic Control purposes ONLY.
If ATC wants to tell the pilot to bring an instructor, they can just tell the pilot to contact tower via landline after landing. The phone number for the tower is published in the Airport Directory, which the pilot should have available.
best controller ever
Yeah. He was professional and calm
Whoever allowed that kid in an airplane needs their instructor license revoked.
That's what the controller advised to him 😀
Not quite that simple. He might have done a great job with the CFI on board, but with added stress and a new airport, three runway assignments and unfamiliar landmarks, he couldn’t keep up. However, he kept his cool and tried hard to comply. I suspect he’ll do much better next time.
I fly plane, no where im at, i land here, okay?
Okay but you will be on youtube 😂
@Flight_Follower I'm not familiar with this youtube, I fly to slab, clear to land runways 17, 19 27 and 90?
Why don’t I see a 19 runway on the row diagram?
This is from the 90s. Theyre 20 now
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