Love this. Apparently a portfolio with over 30 examples of my work, a blog with various case studies, and a TH-cam channel with over 70 videos demonstrating my abilities still isn't enough to convince some people that I'm capable of doing my job. I still get the occasional person who asks me to validate myself to them with "sketches" and "demos" before agreeing to move forward with a project.
This needs to be spread to every creative in every industry. This sheds light on what creatives put up with and how outlandish it is for anyone to ask for spec work. Perhaps this will make more people looking for creative work realize how asinine their expectations are. Well done Zulu Alpha Kilo!
As a graphic artist/designer and audio engineer/music producer, I have found ways around this. 1. Say no 2. Negotiate a spec fee. Set a fee for a short/small sample. If you can't come to a decision with the possible client in 5 minutes, then they are just trying to low ball you. Just decline afterwards. 3. If it seems legit (up to discretion) send files with tags and watermarks. (pixelated images with watermark, audio tag during playback, etc.) Make sure to take spec fee first before doing any work. If they really want your talents and are not looking for a freebie, they will pay and pay well.
I've used your video countless times to convey the no spec work message to potential clients. Some see it as rather harsh, but most laugh and say "ok, I understand!" Thanks for this!
"I'm going to start providing my services day one, so you have to start paying day one... that's just how businesses work" Spot on. That's all you should be saying when someone asks for spec work.
+craiginzana the difference is that everyone can call themselves a "writer", "designer", or "photographer", it is normal spec work exists in those industries, since many of those people don't have any degrees
Karin Brandenberg it is still job related interestingly, this is a major problem for male dominated jobs and not for female dominated jobs freelance photographers, freelance programmers, freelance designers, freelance writers there are no freelance teachers, no freelance psychologists, no freelance nurses, no freelance biologists, no freelance waitresses, no freelance hairdressers none of those female dominated jobs can be automated either the male job market is in for a big surprise, because the prospects are terrible, you will increasingly see spec being asked, and increasingly people will go freelance and work for pennies in an oversaturated market
***** you don't get it, people have been saying they should stop spec jobs for years, yet people still do it it's an oversaturated market, and people want food on the table it's not going to stop just because you say so on youtube, people want money, and they'll take any chance to get it, including spec work
This is SO applicable to the field of voiceovers. Clients: TRUST US. And PAY US accordingly. We're offering excellent services and deserve market rates. The responses of incredulity from the freelancers and business owners in this video are GOLD.
I've been a designer for over 15 years now. One tip I can give you is to NEVER do work for free, not even for a charity, not even for a friend. Charities CAN pay you (even non-profits) and if your friends are actually your friends, they'll respect your craft and value what you do - Feel free to give them a discount or make a trade, just never do it for free. Doing free work is a quick way to kill your soul and make you go bankrupt at the same time. Might as well get paid for doing soul crushing work.
when friends ask me to perform for them and ask what I would charge, I tell them take my wife and I out for a steak meal, it has worked out everytime so far and now I'm fat
Brilliant initiative! As an artist, I've had the humiliation to go through this and try to explain it to people. I cannot count how many times people asked me to do something "to see if they liked" before even consider paying me. I always say "no way, Jose!" but some other people will say "yes". We should work together as artists against this type of practice. Charging less than the work worths just to "get" the client is another practice that should be banished. Man... I've been through a lot. It took me a while to learn how to protect my art files so the "client" wouldn't steal it as well. They ask for time to give you a feedback and they just disappear. Weeks later you find they are using your work and never payed you for it. I am forced to turn in my work with a HUGE watermark right in the center, to avoid this kind of practice. Living and learning... the bad way...
+Luli Nasser loose the huge watermark, place a transparent one instead and if they use it. Throw a lawsuit at them, that will teach them and get you paid
Dmitriy Shpak Oh, but I do place a transparent watermark. I simply make it huge anyway. lol Regarding the lawsuit, it is the ideal solution. Unfortunately, I'm from Brazil and throwing lawsuits on people and companies is quite a waste of time and money in my country. Nothing really happens to them or it takes decades to get the simplest case solved. The Justice system here is unbelievably slow and inefficient. That's why it is easier to commit crimes than to make things right down here: impunity prevails in most cases. It is quite frustrating to be honest. That's why I need to take "extra measures" to protect myself around here. :( Thanks for the tips, though. You're very kind. ;)
You're supposed to build up your work. You need to do things for free. You knew getting into the career that this would happen. As a matter of fact when people tell you to not do your work for free it's because they want to lower the competition. That's why it's always the successful people telling you to not do things for free.
Hit the nail on the head. Over the years I have had many companies ask for some concepts, without being prepared to reveal the extent of the project, the budget, or how many other companies have been asked the same thing. Many years ago, a travel company asked for some ideas for a travel brochure, I insisted they agree our costs first (which they did but very unconvincingly) and we duly produced some concepts. Heard nothing, then followed up and discovered they had an "in-house design team". Had I known this, would never have bothered as it all seemed like they were using us to get some ideas their "team" could use as starting points. Never again. Even if its a "substantial" project. The creative arts are in a real state once you get past the top agencies. Nobody wants to pay, when there are sites like Wix offering free websites, or printers offering "free" templates or freelance sites who probably only appeal to 3rd world creatives with very different economies and lifestyles. This video said it all, nobody expects to have their teeth whitened for free to see if they like it, yet I have had dentists expect me to give them free concepts. Why should creatives have to do this? Especially if they have a substantial body of work and samples showing what they can do?
As a designer for the last 30 years, i know spec all too well. I hate to admit it, but in my earlier years, i fell prey to it. Finally, after coming to the conclusion that my time was actually worth something, i refused to even consider working under those conditions. Spec is just another word for "taking advantage".
Just did wedding videography for someone, I told them about my past prices and work. They asked if we could talk pricing after everything was done and I said yes. I never should have. I was offered $40. $40 for a wedding video. For driving to the location, filming the event, coloring/editing, my equipment and experience I was offered $40. What a slap in the face. Never again.
ALWAYS have a signed contract up front, with a 50% retainer. Then the balance before you deliver the final product. I show a web gallery of watermarked still photos to let them select their predetermined quantity of images. That’s when the balance is due.
As a former visual effects artist, I would see this behavior all the time. "I'll give you credit." "Isn't there a button to do what I want? Why should I have to pay for that?" Rapid advancement of technology and computing power is partly to blame now, since "everybody can do it." I've long since retired from visual effects and now write novels instead. Infinitely more satisfying. And I don't do "free books" other than at the library. If you can afford that mocha frappuccino with whipped cream, you can afford a book.
This is so true, I get new clients asking me for freebees all the time to prove what I can do. I did a free photo shoot for a company and sent them proofs without watermarks. The company turned down my proposal for a full shoot, so I did the work without pay. Six months later a friend who recognized my style noticed a photo in an ad that looked like my work, turns out someone at the original company posted a few of the images on a stock photography site. It took me almost a year to get the stock photography to stop selling it. Now almost 7 years later, I still have not seen a dime in royalty fees. The process of DMCA take downs on all the sites that purchased the image proved timely and costly. I now send samples and proofs as watermarked PDF;s to protect my copyright.
I would flatten all your images with the watermark ontop....saving to pdf might still contain the vector data of the watermark, which can be deleted by anyone very easily....and password protected pdfs can be cracked in under 10 seconds....best option is a low-res flattened jpeg image for proofing if you really think someone is trying to steal or will try to steal your work again. Good luck!
Love the old-timer in the diner. He's not taking shit from nobody :) As I like to say to people - "you're paying for my time, not the design,"... and my time is never free.
As a Magician and Comedian, I am frequently asked to provide my services for free as "It will be good publicity for you". When I perform, I am paid. In performing well, I am getting great publicity as a bonus. This is a great video that I shall share on my website to highlight this silly attitude.
As the president and founder of one of the leading Print & Communication Solutions providers for the past 41 years CJ Graphics and our team Salute and support this message which is brilliantly produced and straight to the point in a clever and funny way. So kudos to the team of Zulu Alpha Kilo. This should be included as part of the curriculum at any Design school, colleges and institutions where creativity is evolved.
I cannot say Amen enough to this. People ask for "spec" work all the time because I am a graphic designer or they try to negotiate prices with me, because for some reason they think their business will be such a great opportunity I should discount. No, I need to pay bills like everyone else and rather have clients that trust me to do good work. I say no to spec all the time.
I retired recently after40+ years as a television writer I can't tell you how much work I've been asked to do for free (and how much I've done.) I finally started telling people, "Find someone who will paint your house for free and I'll do it." Haven't had a single "potential employer" come back with a house painter.
Sometimes I miss the variety of projects I had doing agency work, but videos like this make me appreciate having consistent (albeit bland) work at a big software company.
When I'm having a bad day, I watch this video. And then, I laugh at the Greek guy's heartfelt response of "You work for the government, don't you?" ... and then it's all good.
Early in my copywriting career, in '98, I freelanced with DDB Singapore. We pitched Far East Organization, a massively wealthy family-owned property developer that had bought and were redeveloping an entire neighbourhood of classic old Chinese shophouses adjacent the central business district. Their plan was to lease out the renovated buildings as premium, very pricey office and retail space. We toiled till 3-4am daily for three weeks straight on that pitch. We developed a logo, a hand-painted font, a brilliant multi-media ad campaign, a full brand roll-out. We pitched it, and we waited. It was some of the most beautiful, well-thought-out, on-brand work I'd ever seen, let alone contributed to. They did not reply for months. Meanwhile, the agency moved its entire office into this development of FEO's, as a show of good faith. Finally they announced who'd won the pitch: Us. We'd beat out several of the most badass agencies in SE Asia. We were so stoked. And what material from our pitch did they run in the end? A fabric banner that read "Car Park Here" using the hand-painted font we'd pitched them. Nothing else. Payment received by the agency: $0.00. Say no to fucking spec all right.
As a graphic designer I realized that my job description being perceived as it should be cheap (worse, for free) is a residue of the industrial revolution where the only jobs given great value are engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The world seemed to refuse to move on to that notion that these are the only important professions and will ever be. Now that the world is moving towards the dependency of image and attention, graphic designers and the like and even architects (who also struggled against civil engineers for civil engineers insists they can do what architects do) we should embrace these professions and make them as valuable as all other professions and businesses. The fact is, the brand of a company is probably 90% more valuable than the product itself. Like 2 cotton shirts, one with no branding and one with a Nike logo on it, their prices vary way way differently. Who designs the brand? Graphic Designers. And people still think we can offer clients for free while they should realize the earn so much because of what we do. Yah, this video is right, if I were to own a resto, aint it insane to give 3 versions of dishes, and theyl just choose one? Moreover, they even let you modify the dish till it's perfect. Com'n, 3 blueprints, or 3 poster designs, or 3 3D sculpted characters? #saynotospec
Exactly. This crap happens in advertising and also to freelance artists of all sorts (animators, illustrators, etc.). It's ridiculous and demeaning . All creatives : SAY NO TO SPEC !
By the way, as an illustrator I have had some small ad agencies (not yours) that don't have an in-house art department ask me to do work on spec . ( for example: do 15 concept piece and then if they like one they'll pick it and get back to me if they want me to do the final piece ... in the meantime they do the same thing with 10 other artists. And the classic is: we can't pay you for this now , but this will be a national campaign and will be great exposure for your work and it will lead to future work . I say: you can look at my portfolio to see what my work looks like and you decide if I'm right for this job , I can do the 15 concept pieces , but each one is a paid work. Then if you choose me to do the final piece that is also paid work.)
+MrBongers This happened to me as as well as a Graphic Designer, my only saving grace was that I was working for an agency that was paying me to do the work, then submitting it into a contest. In the end they picked some guy elsewhere, but it didn't go over well with my co-worker who called out the practice as a way to get free work out of multiple artists without paying them.
+MrBongers Your thing reminds me of the big wrestling event in Las Vegas that dared to offer to already popular and well-established artists and designers to join in a "contest" for the "chance" to "win exposure", if their stuff is chosen. If my landlord one of these days agrees to let me pay my rent in exposure, then sure, but until then, it would be suicide of anyone to leave their pride on the sideline and say yes to something ridiculous like that.
+Aurelie Nani well, you see the problem isnt that this just happens to idiots, it's that a very large amount of your competitors lower themselves to this sort of work. That lowers both rates and the amount of paid work available.
it's amazing, very well done... i've been treated like this but they expect we work for free... maybe all cases aren't the same but many business owner thinks that this is the way to work with a designer or a developer... spread the word "NO MORE SPEC WORK"
Love this! I get so sick of being asked to do marketing consulting work for free, or to write or edit a complicated document for a penny a word. Where does anyone get the idea that this is a going rate? Edgar Allan Poe got paid ten cents a word in 1890, that's 125 years ago.
"Other restaurants will give it to me for free." - I don't know who told clients this was a good negotiating tactic, because it's just not. Our options are to a) do work and not get paid for it or b) not do work and not get paid for it. Which do you think we're going to take?
+waspkolnikov This was exactly how a multi million dollars company told me when I rejected their "image usage for free". And there are people who actually willing to give away their image just for a little credit below the image.
+waspkolnikov its a link to illustrators and designers and the like, aka the 'this freelance illustrator will do it for free, so why can't you?' argument. It sounds out of place using it in a different setting because its not what we grew up with as its considered unethical and even stealing. However we did grew up under the assumption its fine to be doing this to creatives for whatever absurd reason.
+Spacerogue-YT Don't worry, I understood what it was making reference to. I get the joke/point the video is trying to make. I'm a freelance writer and you would not believe (or, perhaps, you would--all people in creative-type jobs seem to have gotten this or a version of this line) how often people say, "So and so will write this just to get the byline (or for less than you charge or for 'exposure'), why won't you?"
+waspkolnikov I wonder if we responded, "because they don't know any better" if that would make a difference. I just tell them, if you want $100 work (or $50 or whatever), go pay your $100 writers. Why are you asking me when you already know the answer? Next time one asks I think I'll respond that my rate just went up. Would they like it go to up again? Just ask.
I'm just starting my career out of college and this is basically my life right now. I'm not some million dollar creative agency but I feel that my time and effort are worth something
Don't be too proud early on. When you're just out of college you're basically worthless (economically speaking). I recommend: 1) do 2-3 free projects where they payment is a) a video testimonial about your work (if they're happy with it) and b) three referrals to people they know. 2) With that, sell yourself to others, now with the validation from those first clients. Charge sub market rates, but not too cheap. 3) Gradually climb your way up to market rates. This shouldn't take longer than a year
@@mbohanes "When you're just out of college you're basically worthless (economically speaking)" Is there evidence to back this up or just your anecdotal observation? I'd say regardless of what discipline in the creative field, good advice is to never work for free. I think I get what you're saying of not being too proud, in not trying to scare people with prices, but telling someone fresh out of school that they likely went into debt for that they're worthless economically I think is really reductive in that if the training that the art grad received is so worthless why is it worth upwards of 100 grand? It's not like you loose talent the moment you graduate. Your suggestion is the usual trope of getting paid in exposure, or getting your foot in the door, but it perpetuates the normality of spec work and the hustle grind set for free work culture that the video is trying to illustrate. I also don't know how you would enforce someone making referrals for your work. All of your suggestions are practical sure, I just think if people can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a board ape, then people can spend a little cash on a actual, non speculative asset piece of art or graphic design, or short film project for non-slave wages. My mom has worked her entire life making art at sub-minimum wage because the stores her art's in takes 50%, so all I'm saying is it's not a crime to want to work above minimum wage in a creative field.
@@MrAlziepen it's simple. Fresh out of college, try to get paid gigs. Give it 50 shots, i.e. sell yourself to 50 people for a reasonable rate. If you cannot get a gig that way, then try it my way. There's no point lamenting about people paying for bored apes or saying that it's "not a crime wanting to work above minimum wage." People pay what they pay for what they want to buy. And if you cannot get paid what you want to get paid, you need to explore alternatives.
Alex Langensiepen 17 hours ago @Michal Bohanes I get what you're saying in regard to staying focused on starting a business, and you can reiterate all day how productive or not it is on observing what's happening in the art world related to trends in NFT's and AI art, and whether that's relevant to what a person fresh out of school is trying to achieve in their business. But I think it's relevant to the conversation to mention NFT's because of how widespread they are, how many people contact me about them, and how tantalizing and speculative it is, similar to how tantalizing and speculative working on spec is for a company. The reason I'm writing this much is because I worked for a startup on spec for about 8 months, and didn't get paid a cent. So Just speaking from personal experience the only reason people expect employees to work for free is if workers allow themselves too. I get people who want to hustle grind-set to try to climb the ladder or develop relationships but cumulatively all of these very expensive life lessons add up to billions of dollars in stolen wages across the country, and it’s perpetuating that culture and giving it excuses that's the issue. I'm aware of my skill level and don't think my services are worth zero dollars as I'm not 'fresh out of school' but have worked in my field of industrial design for 10 years. My argument is why is it the artist or the worker who needs to prove they’re trustworthy? Why does the pendulum only swing one way? The current dynamic exists because of the position of power capital, which in turn allows exploitation to happen, so being aware of that I think is worthy of consideration and can help people not repeat the mistakes of others. Because lots of companies are counting on younger people making the same mistakes over and over again, because it favors them and saves them lots of money. I hope that made sense.
@@MrAlziepen the wages are not stolen because both parties entered the contract voluntarily. Stealing requires one party not agreeing to the transaction. The artist needs to prove their value because the power dynamic is against them. The other party has more power, so they can dictate the terms of the engagement. The artist can only say yes or no, but cannot influence the nature of the deal. And I don't consider it a mistake to provide your services for free to get a foothold in the market. Of course, for a short time only. Working for free for 8 months, without any pay or equity in the startup - I would never advocate for that.
Thank you for making this. I will refer to this video everytime I have to explain this to someone else. THANK YOU Sincerely, Illustrators and Graphic Designers everywhere.
So, from Day1 we have (the designers) to provide this video to our clients and IF they accept that, we do the job!!! But I am afraid we will starve really quick! Awesome video, great opportunity to say what we all thinking! Bravo
Hi Zulu Alpha Kilo, Thank you for doing this. I will share this video with my exciting clients and prospective one to drill the ideas home. Thanks a bunch. A
As someone who has been in advertising and marketing for over a decade this is absolutely spot on. By far the worst culprits that I have experienced are in the auto industry. It is so completely ass-backwards that I sometimes wonder what bizarro world this industry emerged from. I think part of the problem is that in the drive by agencies to secure business we have systematically (and collectively) moved the goalpost in regards to the client-agency relationship of what is acceptable and what is not. Whether its spec work or fee reduction or creative work for a specific client that ends up in the hands of a third party that is outside the agreement (and having to hold your tongue from saying that its absolute bullshit they went and did that for fear of upsetting said client), all of it adds up. I'm really not sure how to change this though without running into anti-competitive regulation. I do agree that things NEED to change, but as long as the industry remains as cutthroat as it is with agencies chomping at the bit waiting for the perfect moment to poach clients from other agencies I don't see it changing any time soon.
I faced this situation over thirty year ago. It amazes me to see it still happens. I did not fall for this pitch then and now, well now I'm sort of like the owner of the diner except with a more insulting reply.
As our company says, it's an "investment opportunity". This translates to me investing my time as a Creative Director for free so you can have the opportunity to say "Thanks, but we're going to take this in house". The struggle is real :(
The next time I get an offer for spec work I'm going to reply like the guy in the diner, foreign accent and everything. "First you pay, then you eat! You work for the government, don't you? What's the matter with you, eh?"
Geez it's so long ago since I commented I barely remember this. Basically there's this podcast called Hello Internet which in one episode discussed how accurate this analogy is, and one of the podcasters though it had some flaws in it.
Yeah, okay, but that doesn't explain a thing. I don't see any flaws in it, so after claiming this is a misapplied analogy I thought you'd provide at least an explanation.
Yeah I know it doesn't explain anything, that's why I said I don't remember it anymore, it's 7 months since I posted this, and I'm not really that passionate about the subject. And I didn't make the claim myself, I was making a reference to the aforementioned podcast. You can go and complain to them if you feel so strongly about it.
superbex1 I do cause I've been in the cases the video mentions. You were passionate enough to listen to a podcast and claim the video is wrong in here. And I reacted to that claim, not the podcast. Anyway, nevermind. Suffice to say they are pretty spot on with the video, whatever that podcast guy might think.
we can only solve this problem if EVERY ONE OF US cooperates. where everyone have the same prices (standardized price) and the only difference between us is our creative output. And whoever really becomes really great in their craft can always double their price. With that, at least the rest who stayed on a level are still happy with their businesses because we are not cheap anymore. A never ending spiral going up, not down, killing our own industries, that brought food to our tables.
Fun video. This has been said many times before in different ways of course. I've been working in Production companies for many years, often on commercials. In my experience, it's very often been advertising agencies asking production companies / suppliers to work for free or 'on spec'. So although this video is made by an ad agency to highlight the situation they are in with their clients, I think that the agency sector itself has a helluva lot to answer for here.
For businesses or individuals that have just started up cannot deny spec work as it could be a chance for them to land their their first client or more future prospects. It's the case at least here in India. Nobody loves to do spec work for free but when the competition is soaring and you have got to pay people's salary. You hustle in to get more work on-board. I support #saynotospec
+Art Garfunkel's Ginger Fro I guess if someone comes to me and places cameras on 2-3 angles to ask me to work for free, my answers would be so sarcastic.. why would someone be so angry to this question when it's obvious it's filmed, it's basically staged. And if i were a cooker i'd say "yeah, ,please, take this meal and pay it as much as it values for you" ..and in that case you gave him a reaction challenge test back.. But it's true, in reality, i was asked too many times to play for free..and nobody took a video of my reaction..
Unpaid internships are a similar thing that boils my blood. I can never understand how wealthy companies can justify the exploitation of their life-blood; fresh talent, for the sake of scraping together a pittance in saving. It's unethical in the extreme, I cannot bring myself to use companies who sink to these depths. I've heard the counter arguments and frankly they come across as weak, sniveling, transparent attempts to shirk a basic level of social responsibility and common decency. Hefty financial penalties and public shaming of companies who engage in slave labor need to happen.
+Blake Wells If they didn't have someone to do that work for free they would have to get someone that they are paying to do that work. They may not employ as many people as they take on as interns but there would be more paid workers if there was no interns at all. These now employed people would gain the same experience and be able to climb the ladder. Any argument for unpaid internship is BS if you really look at it. There is no justification for not paying someone that is doing work for you.
TL'DR: scummy companies are why we can't have nice things I'm a student currently looking for internships for next summer (2017), I definitely value real world experience. The thing with an unpaid internship is it's risky and it sets a bad precedent. Not all internships are great, there are many internships where your boss won't care about teaching you anything or give you anything to do and you may 'work' a whole summer, spending an hour commuting to not get paid and not get any experience. As they said in the video, time is money, even a student's time is money. I could choose to work a minimum wage retail job instead, and I know I will get paid for my time. The thing is if the internship sucks, you can't just switch to another one, interviews begin months ahead of time, so like for me, if I do an unpaid internship for summer 2017 and it's total bs, I'm screwed over this year, and have to wait till summer 2018 to try a different internship. I'm not saying pay will make a bad internship any better, but it encourages the company to make use of you because they are paying for your time. But yeah, I would imagine if there's a small reputable art business or something, an unpaid internship where you are sure you will get useful experience is possibility. It's just there's a lot of scummy companies that see an opportunity to cut costs.
Love this. Apparently a portfolio with over 30 examples of my work, a blog with various case studies, and a TH-cam channel with over 70 videos demonstrating my abilities still isn't enough to convince some people that I'm capable of doing my job. I still get the occasional person who asks me to validate myself to them with "sketches" and "demos" before agreeing to move forward with a project.
+Nick Saporito (LogosByNick) So true .The audacity of these people .
Look, who is here. The inkscape master. Hola
This needs to be spread to every creative in every industry. This sheds light on what creatives put up with and how outlandish it is for anyone to ask for spec work. Perhaps this will make more people looking for creative work realize how asinine their expectations are. Well done Zulu Alpha Kilo!
As a graphic artist/designer and audio engineer/music producer, I have found ways around this.
1. Say no
2. Negotiate a spec fee. Set a fee for a short/small sample. If you can't come to a decision with the possible client in 5 minutes, then they are just trying to low ball you. Just decline afterwards.
3. If it seems legit (up to discretion) send files with tags and watermarks. (pixelated images with watermark, audio tag during playback, etc.) Make sure to take spec fee first before doing any work.
If they really want your talents and are not looking for a freebie, they will pay and pay well.
+Michael Knouff Its pretty easy to remove watermarks tho :^)
+Chainezo Depends on the watermark.
Michael Knouff yeah some just take way too much effort to remove :(
+Chainezo Well, if they are made right, they shouldn't be removable at all without damaging the product.
I've used your video countless times to convey the no spec work message to potential clients. Some see it as rather harsh, but most laugh and say "ok, I understand!" Thanks for this!
If this is an army I'm ready to enlist.
+Chip Brandstetter this ahaha
+Chip Brandstetter Right there with you.
me too
+Chip Brandstetter Ill lead the charge
+Chip Brandstetter Me too! F the F'in F'ers!!!
"I'm going to start providing my services day one, so you have to start paying day one... that's just how businesses work"
Spot on. That's all you should be saying when someone asks for spec work.
+craiginzana
the difference is that everyone can call themselves a "writer", "designer", or "photographer", it is normal spec work exists in those industries, since many of those people don't have any degrees
+Aurelie Nani well this is why having portfolio of ur work is a good thing
+Aurelie Nani I highly doubt that the guy who said that has a degree as a personal trainer...
Karin Brandenberg
it is still job related
interestingly, this is a major problem for male dominated jobs and not for female dominated jobs
freelance photographers, freelance programmers, freelance designers, freelance writers
there are no freelance teachers, no freelance psychologists, no freelance nurses, no freelance biologists, no freelance waitresses, no freelance hairdressers
none of those female dominated jobs can be automated either
the male job market is in for a big surprise, because the prospects are terrible, you will increasingly see spec being asked, and increasingly people will go freelance and work for pennies in an oversaturated market
*****
you don't get it, people have been saying they should stop spec jobs for years, yet people still do it
it's an oversaturated market, and people want food on the table
it's not going to stop just because you say so on youtube, people want money, and they'll take any chance to get it, including spec work
This is brilliant. And it can't get any simpler "first you pay, then you eat" that old guy was awesome
This is fantastic!
+Barnacules Nerdgasm Oh look who I found. :D
I love that restaurant owner so much. That's exactly how I'm going to treat spec clients. "What's the matter with you, eh? Why you come here?"
This is SO applicable to the field of voiceovers. Clients: TRUST US. And PAY US accordingly. We're offering excellent services and deserve market rates. The responses of incredulity from the freelancers and business owners in this video are GOLD.
I revisit this video frequently because I have so many occasions to make people watch it.
As a full time freelance illustrator, I hear this all the time! It's insane!
I've been a designer for over 15 years now. One tip I can give you is to NEVER do work for free, not even for a charity, not even for a friend. Charities CAN pay you (even non-profits) and if your friends are actually your friends, they'll respect your craft and value what you do - Feel free to give them a discount or make a trade, just never do it for free.
Doing free work is a quick way to kill your soul and make you go bankrupt at the same time. Might as well get paid for doing soul crushing work.
The exception for me is my church and local historical groups.
and my grandson's landscaping business. (I am a retired Graphic Artist)
when friends ask me to perform for them and ask what I would charge, I tell them take my wife and I out for a steak meal, it has worked out everytime so far and now I'm fat
Brilliant initiative! As an artist, I've had the humiliation to go through this and try to explain it to people. I cannot count how many times people asked me to do something "to see if they liked" before even consider paying me. I always say "no way, Jose!" but some other people will say "yes". We should work together as artists against this type of practice. Charging less than the work worths just to "get" the client is another practice that should be banished. Man... I've been through a lot. It took me a while to learn how to protect my art files so the "client" wouldn't steal it as well. They ask for time to give you a feedback and they just disappear. Weeks later you find they are using your work and never payed you for it. I am forced to turn in my work with a HUGE watermark right in the center, to avoid this kind of practice. Living and learning... the bad way...
+Luli Nasser loose the huge watermark, place a transparent one instead and if they use it. Throw a lawsuit at them, that will teach them and get you paid
Dmitriy Shpak Oh, but I do place a transparent watermark. I simply make it huge anyway. lol
Regarding the lawsuit, it is the ideal solution. Unfortunately, I'm from Brazil and throwing lawsuits on people and companies is quite a waste of time and money in my country. Nothing really happens to them or it takes decades to get the simplest case solved. The Justice system here is unbelievably slow and inefficient. That's why it is easier to commit crimes than to make things right down here: impunity prevails in most cases. It is quite frustrating to be honest. That's why I need to take "extra measures" to protect myself around here. :(
Thanks for the tips, though. You're very kind. ;)
Story of my life! Everyone wants to make me work for free and not give anything in return. World thinks Artists don't deserve to get paid. :(
+Rickshawali That is coz Artists are not respected.
You're supposed to build up your work. You need to do things for free. You knew getting into the career that this would happen. As a matter of fact when people tell you to not do your work for free it's because they want to lower the competition. That's why it's always the successful people telling you to not do things for free.
What about a desk job?
Love the part with the framer about the one year contract, but coming with fee reductions. Wonderful stuff.
Hit the nail on the head. Over the years I have had many companies ask for some concepts, without being prepared to reveal the extent of the project, the budget, or how many other companies have been asked the same thing.
Many years ago, a travel company asked for some ideas for a travel brochure, I insisted they agree our costs first (which they did but very unconvincingly) and we duly produced some concepts. Heard nothing, then followed up and discovered they had an "in-house design team". Had I known this, would never have bothered as it all seemed like they were using us to get some ideas their "team" could use as starting points.
Never again. Even if its a "substantial" project.
The creative arts are in a real state once you get past the top agencies. Nobody wants to pay, when there are sites like Wix offering free websites, or printers offering "free" templates or freelance sites who probably only appeal to 3rd world creatives with very different economies and lifestyles.
This video said it all, nobody expects to have their teeth whitened for free to see if they like it, yet I have had dentists expect me to give them free concepts. Why should creatives have to do this? Especially if they have a substantial body of work and samples showing what they can do?
The person who invented "spec" must have been a great salesman.
+Brian Magner If you were trying to get people to do spec, you wouldn't say spec, you would say 'contest'.
+Brian Magner never heard of "spec" what does it mean?
Thanks a lot for explaining!!! Any idea why "spec" where does the word come from?
+ewerybody On speculation.
+Paul Zink u
As a designer for the last 30 years, i know spec all too well. I hate to admit it, but in my earlier years, i fell prey to it. Finally, after coming to the conclusion that my time was actually worth something, i refused to even consider working under those conditions. Spec is just another word for "taking advantage".
Just did wedding videography for someone, I told them about my past prices and work. They asked if we could talk pricing after everything was done and I said yes. I never should have. I was offered $40. $40 for a wedding video. For driving to the location, filming the event, coloring/editing, my equipment and experience I was offered $40. What a slap in the face. Never again.
$40 for a valuable life lesson
ALWAYS have a signed contract up front, with a 50% retainer. Then the balance before you deliver the final product. I show a web gallery of watermarked still photos to let them select their predetermined quantity of images. That’s when the balance is due.
damn... I hope you haven't sent them the video by then? and didn't agree to that fee & requested a fair price in the end???
Spot on. Walked away from spec work years and years ago and never looked back -- one of the best decisions we ever made.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this video right now, lol.
I died when the chef said "you work for the government don't you?"
Probably the best YT video I've seen in a while. Sending this to everyone that insults me with a pitch, "Do this, and we MIGHT share on social!"
HOLY SHIIIIIIITT!! I love the cafe guy's responses! "You work for the government? Gettouttahere!"
Brilliant. Thanks for standing up for our profession!
As a former visual effects artist, I would see this behavior all the time. "I'll give you credit." "Isn't there a button to do what I want? Why should I have to pay for that?" Rapid advancement of technology and computing power is partly to blame now, since "everybody can do it." I've long since retired from visual effects and now write novels instead. Infinitely more satisfying. And I don't do "free books" other than at the library. If you can afford that mocha frappuccino with whipped cream, you can afford a book.
"Well, if everyone can do it, why don't you do it?" "If there are others out there who will do it for you, just ask them instead of me."
I'm impressed that this guy could do this whole thing with a straight face.
Excellent job for all parties involved in the development of this video. Our whole office has been getting a kick out of it!
Oh THANK YOU! This is music to my ears. The piece was wonderfully done, I am sharing it with everyone I know who's experienced this.
"Well how can we know how good you are at design if you don't provide a sample of your work?"
Why do you think I sent you my portfolio?
Didnt even know what spec was until this video thanks!
This is so true, I get new clients asking me for freebees all the time to prove what I can do. I did a free photo shoot for a company and sent them proofs without watermarks. The company turned down my proposal for a full shoot, so I did the work without pay. Six months later a friend who recognized my style noticed a photo in an ad that looked like my work, turns out someone at the original company posted a few of the images on a stock photography site. It took me almost a year to get the stock photography to stop selling it. Now almost 7 years later, I still have not seen a dime in royalty fees. The process of DMCA take downs on all the sites that purchased the image proved timely and costly. I now send samples and proofs as watermarked PDF;s to protect my copyright.
Are you able to give us the name of the original company? So we know not to go near them?
I would flatten all your images with the watermark ontop....saving to pdf might still contain the vector data of the watermark, which can be deleted by anyone very easily....and password protected pdfs can be cracked in under 10 seconds....best option is a low-res flattened jpeg image for proofing if you really think someone is trying to steal or will try to steal your work again. Good luck!
As a graphic designer myself I see this all the time. It boggles the mind and yet people think it's an acceptable thing to ask for.
"How do I know I'll like your work " ...well clearly it was good enough for you to call me in and have a conversation.....
250 potential employers HATE this video...
Congress should work on Spec. They'll try to make a law, and we'll only pay them for it if we like the law they passed.
+Camop82 That is how they work. It's just corporations paying them, not citizens.
Love the old-timer in the diner. He's not taking shit from nobody :) As I like to say to people - "you're paying for my time, not the design,"... and my time is never free.
"I'm going to start providing my services day one, so you have to start paying day one... that's just how businesses work"
Absolutely. All of this.
As a Magician and Comedian, I am frequently asked to provide my services for free as "It will be good publicity for you".
When I perform, I am paid. In performing well, I am getting great publicity as a bonus. This is a great video that I shall share on my website to highlight this silly attitude.
Brilliant!
As the president and founder of one of the leading Print & Communication Solutions providers for the past 41 years CJ Graphics and our team Salute and support this message which is brilliantly produced and straight to the point in a clever and funny way. So kudos to the team of Zulu Alpha Kilo. This should be included as part of the curriculum at any Design school, colleges and institutions where creativity is evolved.
I cannot say Amen enough to this. People ask for "spec" work all the time because I am a graphic designer or they try to negotiate prices with me, because for some reason they think their business will be such a great opportunity I should discount. No, I need to pay bills like everyone else and rather have clients that trust me to do good work. I say no to spec all the time.
This is the best video of its kind! I can't count how often I have to send the link to this video to prospects! Great work, guys!
I retired recently after40+ years as a television writer I can't tell you how much work I've been asked to do for free (and how much I've done.) I finally started telling people, "Find someone who will paint your house for free and I'll do it." Haven't had a single "potential employer" come back with a house painter.
WOW! This is fantastic and we should all consider posting it in unison daily! Thank you!
It will play in loop on my welcome tv screen at work. Thanks for remind us what it means the time we dedicate for clients.
On behalf of artists everywhere...THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
Yes! This is perfect. Love the candid responses.
Sometimes I miss the variety of projects I had doing agency work, but videos like this make me appreciate having consistent (albeit bland) work at a big software company.
When I'm having a bad day, I watch this video. And then, I laugh at the Greek guy's heartfelt response of "You work for the government, don't you?" ... and then it's all good.
So true! I work at an advertising agency, and this is how most of our new clients treat us in the start.
+damnaddict or they want to see previous work and offer to put our names out as payment.
YES!! This was awesome. It's so much effort to continuously explain to clients why we don't do spec. Much better sending them here next time.
I keep re-watching. I am crying with laughter. I've heard all of these statements!
I cannot fav this video enough! Sharing this with all my followers.
This is just so perfect. Composers...PAY ATTENTION!!!
Every single writer or artist that sees this should post it. Being paid for one's work should not be optional.
Early in my copywriting career, in '98, I freelanced with DDB Singapore. We pitched Far East Organization, a massively wealthy family-owned property developer that had bought and were redeveloping an entire neighbourhood of classic old Chinese shophouses adjacent the central business district. Their plan was to lease out the renovated buildings as premium, very pricey office and retail space. We toiled till 3-4am daily for three weeks straight on that pitch. We developed a logo, a hand-painted font, a brilliant multi-media ad campaign, a full brand roll-out. We pitched it, and we waited. It was some of the most beautiful, well-thought-out, on-brand work I'd ever seen, let alone contributed to. They did not reply for months. Meanwhile, the agency moved its entire office into this development of FEO's, as a show of good faith. Finally they announced who'd won the pitch: Us. We'd beat out several of the most badass agencies in SE Asia. We were so stoked. And what material from our pitch did they run in the end? A fabric banner that read "Car Park Here" using the hand-painted font we'd pitched them. Nothing else. Payment received by the agency: $0.00. Say no to fucking spec all right.
As a graphic designer I realized that my job description being perceived as it should be cheap (worse, for free) is a residue of the industrial revolution where the only jobs given great value are engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The world seemed to refuse to move on to that notion that these are the only important professions and will ever be. Now that the world is moving towards the dependency of image and attention, graphic designers and the like and even architects (who also struggled against civil engineers for civil engineers insists they can do what architects do) we should embrace these professions and make them as valuable as all other professions and businesses. The fact is, the brand of a company is probably 90% more valuable than the product itself. Like 2 cotton shirts, one with no branding and one with a Nike logo on it, their prices vary way way differently. Who designs the brand? Graphic Designers. And people still think we can offer clients for free while they should realize the earn so much because of what we do. Yah, this video is right, if I were to own a resto, aint it insane to give 3 versions of dishes, and theyl just choose one? Moreover, they even let you modify the dish till it's perfect. Com'n, 3 blueprints, or 3 poster designs, or 3 3D sculpted characters? #saynotospec
This is an informed response and adds to the discussion. It made me think, thank you.
Thanks Zulu Alpha Kilo for saying what we all wanted to say!
+Alma Bailey You're welcome, Alma!
Exactly. This crap happens in advertising and also to freelance artists of all sorts (animators, illustrators, etc.). It's ridiculous and demeaning . All creatives : SAY NO TO SPEC !
By the way, as an illustrator I have had some small ad agencies (not yours) that don't have an in-house art department ask me to do work on spec . ( for example: do 15 concept piece and then if they like one they'll pick it and get back to me if they want me to do the final piece ... in the meantime they do the same thing with 10 other artists. And the classic is: we can't pay you for this now , but this will be a national campaign and will be great exposure for your work and it will lead to future work . I say: you can look at my portfolio to see what my work looks like and you decide if I'm right for this job , I can do the 15 concept pieces , but each one is a paid work. Then if you choose me to do the final piece that is also paid work.)
+MrBongers This happened to me as as well as a Graphic Designer, my only saving grace was that I was working for an agency that was paying me to do the work, then submitting it into a contest. In the end they picked some guy elsewhere, but it didn't go over well with my co-worker who called out the practice as a way to get free work out of multiple artists without paying them.
+MrBongers Your thing reminds me of the big wrestling event in Las Vegas that dared to offer to already popular and well-established artists and designers to join in a "contest" for the "chance" to "win exposure", if their stuff is chosen. If my landlord one of these days agrees to let me pay my rent in exposure, then sure, but until then, it would be suicide of anyone to leave their pride on the sideline and say yes to something ridiculous like that.
+MrBongers
it only happens to idiots
+Aurelie Nani well, you see the problem isnt that this just happens to idiots, it's that a very large amount of your competitors lower themselves to this sort of work. That lowers both rates and the amount of paid work available.
it's amazing, very well done... i've been treated like this but they expect we work for free... maybe all cases aren't the same but many business owner thinks that this is the way to work with a designer or a developer... spread the word "NO MORE SPEC WORK"
"But we pay in exposure!" -something a musician hears often
People die from exposure :D
Just politely say, "No.", and keep moving forward, and create your best work. Serious clients will pay you for your knowledge, time, skills and labor.
It's never been said better or clearer than this! Thanks Zulu Alpha Kilo!
Love this! I get so sick of being asked to do marketing consulting work for free, or to write or edit a complicated document for a penny a word. Where does anyone get the idea that this is a going rate? Edgar Allan Poe got paid ten cents a word in 1890, that's 125 years ago.
Every ad agency in the world is cheering after seeing this.
I want to share this to my social networks (mostly other designers) every hour of everyday, and twice per hour from midnight to 5 am.
+Pariah Burke I probably am going to share this every 3 hours lol
MARVELOUS!! This was so accurately done that it's shocking.
"Other restaurants will give it to me for free." - I don't know who told clients this was a good negotiating tactic, because it's just not. Our options are to a) do work and not get paid for it or b) not do work and not get paid for it. Which do you think we're going to take?
+waspkolnikov
This was exactly how a multi million dollars company told me when I rejected their "image usage for free".
And there are people who actually willing to give away their image just for a little credit below the image.
+waspkolnikov its a link to illustrators and designers and the like, aka the 'this freelance illustrator will do it for free, so why can't you?' argument. It sounds out of place using it in a different setting because its not what we grew up with as its considered unethical and even stealing. However we did grew up under the assumption its fine to be doing this to creatives for whatever absurd reason.
+Spacerogue-YT Don't worry, I understood what it was making reference to. I get the joke/point the video is trying to make. I'm a freelance writer and you would not believe (or, perhaps, you would--all people in creative-type jobs seem to have gotten this or a version of this line) how often people say, "So and so will write this just to get the byline (or for less than you charge or for 'exposure'), why won't you?"
+waspkolnikov I wonder if we responded, "because they don't know any better" if that would make a difference. I just tell them, if you want $100 work (or $50 or whatever), go pay your $100 writers. Why are you asking me when you already know the answer? Next time one asks I think I'll respond that my rate just went up. Would they like it go to up again? Just ask.
This is SO AMAZING!!!!!! In fact, my clients are ALL AGENCIES and they do THE SAME THING :) Hehe
I already do! Quote is free, strategy is paid.
I'm just starting my career out of college and this is basically my life right now. I'm not some million dollar creative agency but I feel that my time and effort are worth something
Don't be too proud early on. When you're just out of college you're basically worthless (economically speaking). I recommend: 1) do 2-3 free projects where they payment is a) a video testimonial about your work (if they're happy with it) and b) three referrals to people they know.
2) With that, sell yourself to others, now with the validation from those first clients. Charge sub market rates, but not too cheap.
3) Gradually climb your way up to market rates.
This shouldn't take longer than a year
@@mbohanes "When you're just out of college you're basically worthless (economically speaking)" Is there evidence to back this up or just your anecdotal observation? I'd say regardless of what discipline in the creative field, good advice is to never work for free. I think I get what you're saying of not being too proud, in not trying to scare people with prices, but telling someone fresh out of school that they likely went into debt for that they're worthless economically I think is really reductive in that if the training that the art grad received is so worthless why is it worth upwards of 100 grand? It's not like you loose talent the moment you graduate. Your suggestion is the usual trope of getting paid in exposure, or getting your foot in the door, but it perpetuates the normality of spec work and the hustle grind set for free work culture that the video is trying to illustrate. I also don't know how you would enforce someone making referrals for your work. All of your suggestions are practical sure, I just think if people can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a board ape, then people can spend a little cash on a actual, non speculative asset piece of art or graphic design, or short film project for non-slave wages. My mom has worked her entire life making art at sub-minimum wage because the stores her art's in takes 50%, so all I'm saying is it's not a crime to want to work above minimum wage in a creative field.
@@MrAlziepen it's simple. Fresh out of college, try to get paid gigs. Give it 50 shots, i.e. sell yourself to 50 people for a reasonable rate. If you cannot get a gig that way, then try it my way.
There's no point lamenting about people paying for bored apes or saying that it's "not a crime wanting to work above minimum wage." People pay what they pay for what they want to buy. And if you cannot get paid what you want to get paid, you need to explore alternatives.
Alex Langensiepen
17 hours ago
@Michal Bohanes I get what you're saying in regard to staying focused on starting a business, and you can reiterate all day how productive or not it is on observing what's happening in the art world related to trends in NFT's and AI art, and whether that's relevant to what a person fresh out of school is trying to achieve in their business. But I think it's relevant to the conversation to mention NFT's because of how widespread they are, how many people contact me about them, and how tantalizing and speculative it is, similar to how tantalizing and speculative working on spec is for a company. The reason I'm writing this much is because I worked for a startup on spec for about 8 months, and didn't get paid a cent. So Just speaking from personal experience the only reason people expect employees to work for free is if workers allow themselves too. I get people who want to hustle grind-set to try to climb the ladder or develop relationships but cumulatively all of these very expensive life lessons add up to billions of dollars in stolen wages across the country, and it’s perpetuating that culture and giving it excuses that's the issue. I'm aware of my skill level and don't think my services are worth zero dollars as I'm not 'fresh out of school' but have worked in my field of industrial design for 10 years.
My argument is why is it the artist or the worker who needs to prove they’re trustworthy? Why does the pendulum only swing one way? The current dynamic exists because of the position of power capital, which in turn allows exploitation to happen, so being aware of that I think is worthy of consideration and can help people not repeat the mistakes of others. Because lots of companies are counting on younger people making the same mistakes over and over again, because it favors them and saves them lots of money. I hope that made sense.
@@MrAlziepen the wages are not stolen because both parties entered the contract voluntarily. Stealing requires one party not agreeing to the transaction.
The artist needs to prove their value because the power dynamic is against them. The other party has more power, so they can dictate the terms of the engagement. The artist can only say yes or no, but cannot influence the nature of the deal.
And I don't consider it a mistake to provide your services for free to get a foothold in the market. Of course, for a short time only. Working for free for 8 months, without any pay or equity in the startup - I would never advocate for that.
I presume the thumbs down on this video are from those who don't like to pay for other people's time and effort...
+geffel I presume you are correct!
I LOVE This!!! SPEC = Sans Payment of Expected Compensation.
Thank you for making this. I will refer to this video everytime I have to explain this to someone else. THANK YOU
Sincerely,
Illustrators and Graphic Designers everywhere.
love this!
So, from Day1 we have (the designers) to provide this video to our clients and IF they accept that, we do the job!!! But I am afraid we will starve really quick!
Awesome video, great opportunity to say what we all thinking!
Bravo
What an amusing way to illustrate a point! Bravo!!
This is great!
Hi Zulu Alpha Kilo,
Thank you for doing this. I will share this video with my exciting clients and prospective one to drill the ideas home.
Thanks a bunch. A
Beautiful. I enjoy laughing a little too hard when faced with such requests.
As someone who has been in advertising and marketing for over a decade this is absolutely spot on. By far the worst culprits that I have experienced are in the auto industry. It is so completely ass-backwards that I sometimes wonder what bizarro world this industry emerged from.
I think part of the problem is that in the drive by agencies to secure business we have systematically (and collectively) moved the goalpost in regards to the client-agency relationship of what is acceptable and what is not. Whether its spec work or fee reduction or creative work for a specific client that ends up in the hands of a third party that is outside the agreement (and having to hold your tongue from saying that its absolute bullshit they went and did that for fear of upsetting said client), all of it adds up.
I'm really not sure how to change this though without running into anti-competitive regulation. I do agree that things NEED to change, but as long as the industry remains as cutthroat as it is with agencies chomping at the bit waiting for the perfect moment to poach clients from other agencies I don't see it changing any time soon.
Please more! So I can send these to every client that thinks free work is appropriate.
I faced this situation over thirty year ago. It amazes me to see it still happens. I did not fall for this pitch then and now, well now I'm sort of like the owner of the diner except with a more insulting reply.
As our company says, it's an "investment opportunity". This translates to me investing my time as a Creative Director for free so you can have the opportunity to say "Thanks, but we're going to take this in house". The struggle is real :(
The next time I get an offer for spec work I'm going to reply like the guy in the diner, foreign accent and everything. "First you pay, then you eat! You work for the government, don't you? What's the matter with you, eh?"
Love this! The guy in the diner is the best!
This describes working in Hollywood. And I have a few entertainment-based FB pages I'm gonna post this on. Thank you.
Genius video! So timely regarding much of the work we are asked to participate in lately. Thanks for articulating the frustration and insanity.
"It's for exposure duh"
+SixFingeredAmish exposure BS. Get exposure and get paid. The only way to do it. Cripes!
+SixFingeredAmish theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure
+SixFingeredAmish twitter.com/forexposure_txt
+Rob Rutherford best reply.
+SixFingeredAmish theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure
110 Clients...disliked this video clip
Master Grey has spoken: Misapplied analogy.
care to explain why?
Geez it's so long ago since I commented I barely remember this. Basically there's this podcast called Hello Internet which in one episode discussed how accurate this analogy is, and one of the podcasters though it had some flaws in it.
Yeah, okay, but that doesn't explain a thing. I don't see any flaws in it, so after claiming this is a misapplied analogy I thought you'd provide at least an explanation.
Yeah I know it doesn't explain anything, that's why I said I don't remember it anymore, it's 7 months since I posted this, and I'm not really that passionate about the subject. And I didn't make the claim myself, I was making a reference to the aforementioned podcast. You can go and complain to them if you feel so strongly about it.
superbex1 I do cause I've been in the cases the video mentions.
You were passionate enough to listen to a podcast and claim the video is wrong in here. And I reacted to that claim, not the podcast.
Anyway, nevermind. Suffice to say they are pretty spot on with the video, whatever that podcast guy might think.
we can only solve this problem if EVERY ONE OF US cooperates. where everyone have the same prices (standardized price) and the only difference between us is our creative output. And whoever really becomes really great in their craft can always double their price. With that, at least the rest who stayed on a level are still happy with their businesses because we are not cheap anymore. A never ending spiral going up, not down, killing our own industries, that brought food to our tables.
Fun video. This has been said many times before in different ways of course.
I've been working in Production companies for many years, often on commercials. In my experience, it's very often been advertising agencies asking production companies / suppliers to work for free or 'on spec'. So although this video is made by an ad agency to highlight the situation they are in with their clients, I think that the agency sector itself has a helluva lot to answer for here.
For businesses or individuals that have just started up cannot deny spec work as it could be a chance for them to land their their first client or more future prospects. It's the case at least here in India. Nobody loves to do spec work for free but when the competition is soaring and you have got to pay people's salary. You hustle in to get more work on-board. I support #saynotospec
Fuck yes. Next person that asks me to work for free in this business for a profit client gets a straight punch to the throat.
+Art Garfunkel's Ginger Fro Might be a bit of an overreaction. How about just send them this video.
+Edbrad Nah, I want to see how this plays out. ;-)
+Art Garfunkel's Ginger Fro Just make sure you wear a GoPro when you do, the world needs a good Specassault video.
+Art Garfunkel's Ginger Fro
I guess if someone comes to me and places cameras on 2-3 angles to ask me to work for free, my answers would be so sarcastic.. why would someone be so angry to this question when it's obvious it's filmed, it's basically staged. And if i were a cooker i'd say "yeah, ,please, take this meal and pay it as much as it values for you" ..and in that case you gave him a reaction challenge test back..
But it's true, in reality, i was asked too many times to play for free..and nobody took a video of my reaction..
+Art Garfunkel's Ginger Fro - yes, but, make sure you don't give them the chop on spec. Half up front, half after chop.
Absolutely spot on (and hilarious) and fantastically highlights the problem with hiring artists
Not sure wether you understood the video... It is not the problem with hiring artists. Dude.. it is a problem how people try to hire us artists.
It expresses exactly what happens to many senior professionals. Still!
Unpaid internships are a similar thing that boils my blood. I can never understand how wealthy companies can justify the exploitation of their life-blood; fresh talent, for the sake of scraping together a pittance in saving. It's unethical in the extreme, I cannot bring myself to use companies who sink to these depths. I've heard the counter arguments and frankly they come across as weak, sniveling, transparent attempts to shirk a basic level of social responsibility and common decency. Hefty financial penalties and public shaming of companies who engage in slave labor need to happen.
What are the counterarguments? Besides the fact they might not do it at all if they had to pay, I can't think of any..
+Blake Wells If they didn't have someone to do that work for free they would have to get someone that they are paying to do that work. They may not employ as many people as they take on as interns but there would be more paid workers if there was no interns at all. These now employed people would gain the same experience and be able to climb the ladder.
Any argument for unpaid internship is BS if you really look at it. There is no justification for not paying someone that is doing work for you.
TL'DR: scummy companies are why we can't have nice things
I'm a student currently looking for internships for next summer (2017), I definitely value real world experience. The thing with an unpaid internship is it's risky and it sets a bad precedent. Not all internships are great, there are many internships where your boss won't care about teaching you anything or give you anything to do and you may 'work' a whole summer, spending an hour commuting to not get paid and not get any experience. As they said in the video, time is money, even a student's time is money. I could choose to work a minimum wage retail job instead, and I know I will get paid for my time. The thing is if the internship sucks, you can't just switch to another one, interviews begin months ahead of time, so like for me, if I do an unpaid internship for summer 2017 and it's total bs, I'm screwed over this year, and have to wait till summer 2018 to try a different internship. I'm not saying pay will make a bad internship any better, but it encourages the company to make use of you because they are paying for your time. But yeah, I would imagine if there's a small reputable art business or something, an unpaid internship where you are sure you will get useful experience is possibility. It's just there's a lot of scummy companies that see an opportunity to cut costs.
Yup. Unpaid internship is basically slave labor. Who says slavery is abolished?