You should make a video about boot pain and collaborate with your followers to make a pretty comprehensive guide /chart to boot pain and how to solve them for thing that dint need permanent modification of the boot.
Appreciate the feedback Elliott! And thanks for not being so brutal with my skiing haha. Some things I want to clarify: - When I said the Rossignol boots aren’t durable, I mean it in the most literal sense. The insoles are already shredded, and the hardware is obviously not super high quality. It’s not a comment on the flex. - Every boot I take on the slope with me fit me comfortably while I’m in the shop. Flexed over the knees and everything. The problem starts when I'm actually skiing and my feet swell up. - I'm not 100% sure yet of course, but I feel pretty confident about the Atomics because I skied on them for almost 30 minutes straight (revolving slopes are continuous, no lift breaks). This was also how I tried out the Rossignol boots the year before. Tbh I only picked 105 flex because they were on sale and in my size, but I had no issues flexing them. Guess I'll have to update once it starts snowing! - To their credit, Surefoot did refund me, but I don't think that's the norm.
If you still have issues, there is a great boot fitter in Breck named Jeff Bergeron. His company is Boot Fixation. He doesn't sell boots but he can evaluate your feet and recommend boots suited to your foot shape. (Boot companies use different foot lasts so there is a lot of variability). He can also evaluate and modify your current boots, including canting, softening and grinding areas where you have pressure points causing your pain. There are a lot of really good fitters in SLC and Park City Utah. For any good boot fitter you will need to make an appointment well in advance.
What a relief to hear you got a refund. What a miserable time in and out of their shop. I have difficult feet and ended up in Atomic Hawx some years ago, but boy do they fit nice after a good boot fitter (working for a local sports shop) dialed stuff in, with a good brand selection on hand and knowledge of last shapes and so forth. The Hawx seem pretty durable from that standpoint. I previously had Langes and they were stiffer and less comfortable. I also have high arches so I need some molded support to keep from smashing down my instep and hurting my foot through the day.
I have zero experience with this woman but have only seen her working with Deb Armstrong on her video. Amanda Brotman, Ski and Bike Kare, Steamboat Springs, CO, featured on Deb Armstrong's videos. May want to check her out. /watch?v=DeD4wIhUp-0
I have zero experience with this person, but I have seen her speak and demonstrate boot fitting. You may want to look her up. Amanda Brotman, Ski and Bike Kare, Steamboat Springs, CO, featured on Deb Armstrong.
99.99% of skiers have no need for a custom fit 1500$ boot. I skied 50 days last season on a Rossi all track 110, A budget boot. I’ve seen this girl ski, no need for this.
I got my foot beds done at Surefoot in Killington - they have been awesome. And the boot fitter at Northern Ski Works diagnosed that I needed heel lifters. Since then I've not really had problems even when coaching all day. Shoutout to those guys. And I got my Dalbellos at Mud Sweat and Gears.
I buy my boots at Killington Surefoot. I got my first set of boots 10 years ago. I had to get new liners because I had too much play within the liner, but then perfect after that. Updated last year with Surefoot again and they’ve been great! It comes down to this, first your feet need to be comfortable and fitting perfectly in your ski boots Basically no pain or play and your feet are warm. Next, you need to be warm so pick clothing and gloves that keep you warm and you don’t tense up. Finally get yourself a set of skies! Oh, and nice job on the reviews Elliott, I really look forward to hearing your opinion
@10:43 So true that's why I'm a Head man. A good damp ski gets you over that intermediate hump. A lot of people get to intermediate, they definitely don't suck, but then they just stop progressing. They get that chatter and they just let up.
After years of pain and misery having to stop skiing every few hours I discovered Fischer Vacuum. Get the right flex, mold them for a huge upgrade get a zip liner. My feet feel like they are wearing a compression sock, no pressure point just pure comfort. I can ski 8 straight hours without touching a buckle. nothing comes close. just get the vacuum, and don't forget a proper footbed.
I really feel for her pain because for years all o skied on were packed out ski boots that I had to over cranck to get rid of shin bang bit that cut off the circulation to my toes. So injust dealt with numb and or burning toes for a few years and last season I was fed up and I agonized over what boots to get for 3 months and what skis to pair it with for 6 months and last winter I rode on them and I have to say that I think I picked the perfect mix for me. I do have problems with chatter but I chalk that up to my self taught lazy skiing.
This makes me glad for the shop where I got my new boots. I've been back several times for adjustments and each adjustment has been an improvement. They even told me, after the second or third adjustment, they'd let me return them if I wasn't happy. I don't know if that's the norm or not but I'd never had a shop tell me that before.
If she’s in breck she is close to the best boot shop in Colorado. It’s called a racers edge and it’s an incredible shop they do an incredible job. Surefoot only works for people with a really narrow foot with small calf’s
I went from 100 boots that were 12 years old to 120 boots brand new and didn't have any pain ever with no adjustment (simply didn't need). I ended up adding a custom insole just to add some volume because I have very narrow and long feet (already narrow fit boots). I can't believe we still hear such crap with the amount of choices we have today for boots (and same thing for shoes). As you said, if it's not comfortable in the shop, we should not leave with them. It's sad she had to go through all this and then people give her crap on social media.
We are lucky here in Australia, we have some great bootfitters here. Just updated my boots from the Nordica Firearrow to the Technica Mach 1 HV, so far they are a great fit. Also found out that my knees are a couple of degrees out of alignment becuase of Arthritis in both knees.
I went through something very similar in my ski journey. In my teens / early 20's i was an occasional skier, and used a softer flex boot in one size too large. It worked fine and I was always comfortable skiing. But I started to dedicate more time to skiing and started progressing, so "upgraded" to proper sized stiffer flex boots. This exposed some foot issues i have naturally with high arches, and was experiencing bad foot pains while being in the boots even for a short while (even sometimes by the time i got up the first lift). I went through multiple boots, custom sizing, custom footbeds etc. It eventually got to the point where I stopped skiing completely in my early 30s, it just took the fun and enjoyment right out of the sport. However about 4 years ago, I decided to take another attempt at it again. I went to a ski shop, tried a pile of boots on, and despite my hesitations, ended up in a soft 80 flex Salomon S/Pro boot (Im 190lb male). I put in a footbed I know works great for my other footwear, and my ski life was changed. I was able to ski again with no foot pain, I've progressed my skills over the last 4 years to a level higher than I ever have, and absolutely love skiing again. That being said, I can feel the limitations in my boots, and the flex is definitely hindering some performance, especially in warmer weather. I'm going to attempt a higher flex again this year, and see what happens. Hoping the S/pro in a 100-120 gives me that extra bit of support, but still maintains my comfort. Fingers crossed!
Been told I've been very lucky, but I've fared well buying boots online. Got my latest pair, 2021 K2 Recons 140 Flex in late April for $300; I'm size 28.5 and followed Elliot's advice and bought my popular size while it was still in stock! I'll admit after day 1 on a baby powder day, when it warmed up and the pow turned to sludge, I quit before noon and was worried I'd bitten off more than I could chew. The learning curve was more than expected! But next day in corn snow skied wonderfully and have been in love w/my new boots ever since. I'll follow E's advice and wear my next new boots around the house a day before taking them up the hill. I hear I'm on a racing flex, and also that a K2 140 flex is like a 110 or 120 in other brands. I'm going from a 90 flex so IDK about all that, but I'm happy to say I really love the new boots. The moment I got on them I felt the edging difference, and I really feel the ski roll edge over to edge now. I can almost keep pace w/young Squaw rippers now which is a big surprise! I really like grabs w/these boots, feels like I'm just flicking the ski, it's much less work now. I wasn't feeling Shifty at all until riding on the new boots, then suddenly I'm getting Tailgrabs off jumps, and getting about half of that Shifty motion. Now I'm practicing Shifty jumping off stumps in my yard in my old boots, some indoor trampoline sessions are next before November!
I watched her videos a year ago and she said she was making progress with a used pair of beginner boots but felt the custom pair put her in pain and made it hard to ski. First thing I thought was a low threshold for having foot in a confined boot and the flex was too high. Neither thing is her fault. We all have different thresholds for foot confinement. I wear a mens 12 shoe but am perfectly comfortable in a Mondo 27. I know fellow skiers with the same street shoe size that are in 28.5 or 29. So we're all different. Also flex is as meaningless across bands as trail ratings are between mountains. One big indication the flex is too stiff for her is that when she jumps on more advanced terrain is when the pain comes. My hypothesis is that the higher flex boots are preventing the ankle flexion needed to absorb the shock and preventing good technique. BTW for $1500 she could have purchased 5 or 6 pairs of ski boots of various shapes, sizes and flex and either return or the sell the ones she didn't like. Also not sure if you're old enough to remember this but the "Lange shin bang saga" comes to mind with her story. Lange was one of the first big molded commercially available race boots in the late 70s early 80s and every one wanted a pair, the problem was they really only worked well for a very specific foot type (low volume, very narrow etc.) everyone else without that body type experienced the "Lange bang" and spent countless hours trying to modify the pain out of these boots. Find what feels good and ski the snot out of it.
I've heard the boot custom insoles are a Game Changer, yet I'm frugal! I've gotten cheaper than $10 athletic insoles off Amazon & Temu and must say that jump landings are much softer & easier on the knees now!
May have more to do with the needs of your individual foot. I had heat molded insoles made, because I have high arches and need to prevent my arch from being flatted by clamp forces through the day. It's done wonders for me. Someone else with a rather flat foot may not find the benefits.
@@anthonyalpha4118 You may not benefit from heat molded footbeds if you have average feet. Also of note, most footwear for the last 100 years has done more to destroy people's feet than strengthen them (don't get me started). So a person's arch condition may, or may not be strong and natural as biologically designed, depending on what their footwear history has been. The foot arch should not have to have support to remain strong and resilient but sadly people can reach the point of needing this support (preventing plantar facetious for example) because of weakened foot muscles, tendons, and ligaments due to most footwear trends. Ski boots are a little different, in that they force the foot into certain shapes via clamps and buckles.
My wife had always used rental boots and had even bought a pair that “fit” when we first went skiing together she would be crying after each run we did because of pain and she thought that was normal for ski boots! one visit to a proper fitter has transformed things.
Yes she got them at Breckenridge... But surefoot is that expensive everywhere, they are all custom, you pick a retail shell then you are paying for the customer foot bed and custom foam liner.. that's why they cost that. The shell itself sells at retail
I'm a snowboarder, so no idea why I'm even watching your videos, but the honesty and knowledge is highly appreciated, something lacking in many reviewers today in the snowsports scene. Good stuff, seriously But you're still a skier, so: Your mom
I'm not a bootfitter, but this seems like a case of getting the order of operations wrong after a bad initial fit. Like, the troubleshooting flow chart they used (either from company training or boot fitter intuition or whatever) should not have taken so long to identify the right flex that she could flex properly from a body geometry and physics standpoint, and it should not have taken that long to find a shell with the right size and width. Given the experiences with Surefoot discussed here, it almost seems like their boot fitters are using the Surefoot liners as a crutch to make up for their lack of knowledge on how to fit people to the right shells. I'm feeling very fortunate to have basically not ever had major alpine ski boot issues as an adult. Cross-country ski boots have been another story. I did the 30 km skate Kortelopet a couple seasons ago (the mini version of the American Birkebeiner), and the bottoms of my feet (basically my arches) were in so much pain I could not walk when I clipped out of of my skis, even in street shoes. That was actually a vast improvement from before I got custom insoles, when I could barely ski 10 km of gently-rolling terrain (as opposed to the difficult, steep hills of the Birkie trail), and I had to stop every 1.5 km or so to let my feet take a break. Hopefully this season won't be as painful on skate skis, as I went back and had my skate boot insoles re-made using a insole blank with a new, different composition.
With the kind of money she is spending on the boot and the pain that she is in, she should take a trip and get fitted at Daleboot. I have never tried them, but I may in the future if I have more money. The flex number is not always comparable between brands. A 120 flex Head boot will feel softer than a 120 flex Lange boot for example. Her boots were not durable - this is correct. Have you seen the liners for women's 60 flex boots? It is like bedroom slipper foam inside a hard plastic shell. When she says it is not durable, it is probably the liner that she is talking about. Perhaps she could try a custom foam liner in those 60 flex boots that worked for her. I really like your video and the discussion that you have started here. I have foot pain with my current boots, but they are the best I have found in the past few years. The pain is manageable if I take a break after a bit of skiing. Ski boots seem to be made for a certain type of European foot, and do not fit well for some other types. I am an advanced skier and have a small foot for a man. I measure at 25.5, and tried that size boot for a year when I started skiing again 3 years ago. After skiing on it for a season and breaking it in, I found that it was way too big for me. I went down to a 24.5 and the performance while skiing was MUCH better. Both were Head Rebels 120 flex boots which is about right for me. I generally only can find "race" boots in my size. The manufacturers literally don't make most of the boots that I would like to try in a 24.5. If you are an advanced skier that needs a stiff boot, you are supposed to have a bigger foot or be a racer. I could use women's boots, but they tend to be too low and not stiff enough for my style of skiing. Also, I don't like the look of most women's boots as a guy, and the liners tend to be way too soft. Running shoes: YES! I have had pain in all running shoes for the last 15 years. I just got a set of Saucony Endorphin Speed shoes this year and I was astonished that the pain has gone away. I am now in the process of trying to run again. I am older now, and conditioning takes longer.
Stiffness and durability can be somewhat related. The lesser flex boots don’t always use the same material and the liners are cheaper. This is why stiffer flex boots are more expensive.
i had a small issue with the eleventh toe as well, but my bootfitter was also able to easily fix it. i think you are right with this womens issue on the boot stifness, 80 or so. flex goes down over time so maybe she would have gotten away with fresh 70 ones that would feel stiffer to worn out ones already.
thanks rickty' ski review', my feet are arched evenly', luckily', custom mold to your foot inner liners are the exciting to me! with boot' developments' i like lange or salomon boots. thanks elliot ' so funny!😄
There's also a Rossi Alltrack 80, which is the same width as her old boots (and the Pure 70). If she's having a bit of a heel lift problem, that is much easier to fix than a width or arch problem.
I think I even commented on her channel when she was talking about boots.. I went up the lift with her during early season.. I saw her ski and she was pretty good.. I am trying to remember what skis I was on.. I think I was on my 2021 Kastle FX 96HP.. I am pretty sure she was on QST 93s.. I only say the skis because she was faster down the hill but I think her skis were more maneuverable than mine for the amount of people on the hill.. I want to say the length of her skis were around 170 and the length of my skis were 180..
Watched her videos, and I was kind of stunned... Surely, the right person/fitter can do a proper shell fit and make a comfortable orthotic that will work? Crazy...
Greg Coulter in the MtHood region is the man! Racing or touring and beginner or intermediate, Greg is the man. By the way, if one is comfortable and a Rosignol laynge is not gonna fit their foot.
Perhaps the fitter in Stowe is Inner BootWorks? Jamie ended a very expensive/frustrating 4 year, 3 boot, 4 fitter experience. As an advanced/expert skier that only gets about 10 days a year I find your opinions on equipment valuable. With so few days on snow the trial and error process of optimizing skis, bindings and boots is difficult logistically. Videos like yours help me get them most out of the few days I get, thank you!
Hello Elliot, I think I need your advice. What would you say, as a 72kg heavy person, 180cm tall, do you think 167cm ski for tree skiing is a good idea, will it work? Or should I rather go for the bigger size option: 172cm? What are your thoughts on this?
It would be interesting to see the shape of her foot. She is a petite person and at her level should be in a fairly soft boot that perhaps need to be somewhat widely lasted. IMO I’ve always had success with Nordica boots. I know boots are a very personal thing, but I find them to be a very good starting point for fitting.
Obviously people can spend their time and money anyway they want to. With that said, I try on ski boots at a shop during a sale. I find the boot that fits the best (with minimal pain) in the 120-130 flex. I also go into the shop in the evening after I have been on my feet all day and have gone to the gym a few hours earlier (get my feet nice and swollen). I will bring in my upgraded footbed to the store to place in the boots when trying them on with my ski socks since the footbeds that come with the boots are normally terrible for mid to high arched feet. I then look online for the same boot and if it is cheaper online, I ask if the ski shop will price match. My preference is to buy the boot at the ski shop, so if the shop will at least make an effort to somewhat price match, I will buy the boot at the ski shop. I do not do custom boot fitting. I am not a ski racer, so absolute precision is not necessary. Just remember that the tightest the boot will ever be is when you first buy it. This is why I am ok with minimal pain when buying. The boot will gradually expand. Also remember that the boot will be much stiffer outside in the cold when skiing versus in a warm ski shop. I don't need to spend an extra $300-$400 for custom boot fitting with a custom footbed. You can buy an upgraded footbed for extra arch support and/or comfort for $15-$60 if you need that. Dr. Schols at Target is $15 (Dr. Schols makes some for athletics or extra work duty with robust arch support) or Sidas footbeds are $45-$60 ( $45 if they are on sale). Good luck to everyone.
I’ve got a pair of K2 mindbender 120’s and I don’t have any problems other than my toes getting cold on most occasions. I still have the stock liners that came with the boot and have considered upgrading, but unsure if this would help with warmth. I have had this problem with cold toes ever since I was a kid playing hockey.. my toes would turn white and go numb most times when playing.
Also according to boot manufacturers and Austrian and German ski experts all agree that the heel needs to be set back into the heel of the boot first before cinching the buckles over your toes. If you cinch your buckles over your toes first it causes circulation to stop. By securing your mid ankle to the back of the boot now puts your foot in the proper position in the boot and the forefoot can be secured to a comfortable liking.
C'mon... you really didn't know that major western ski resorts charge $1000+ for 3 hour private lessons... eastern resorts are in $400+ range 🤔 However; ski instructors only get paid $21-$30 per hour depending on certification level and experience... To be fair... tips can range from $200+... 💰👀 Exactly; never pay retail MSRP+ for ski gear... shop off season... I just purchased a set of Atomic Maverick 88ti with Atomic Strive 14 bindings for $450... It sounds like she is losing her love/enthusiasm for skiing.... that is the sad part of the story! 🥲 Maybe multiple set of ski boots depending on how she is going to ski that day? 🤔 👍 on the vlog...
@@RogerBradshaw-dc1hm Private Ski Lessons prices do vary. Many factors such as the popularity of the ski resort, notoriety of the ski school, proximity to metro areas. etc..
Classic sunk cost fallacy - I spent so much on this thing, I need to make it work. But, I'm so glad she got a refund. I saw her original videos when they came out. $1500 is a lot of money but it's not outrageous for a hobby you are passionate about. I spent $3500 on a camera plus $1200 on a lens for photography.
I watched all of Angela videos about this and my comment about surefoot was basically identical to you.. skiing for 30+ years and have never had custom boots.. my theory is they are to precise and don't accommodate natural shrinking of foot in cold and natural swelling from being on your feet all day. I couldn't believe ppl were telling her to take ski lessons.. she skiing a basin, so yea all those commentators can quiet down
@@isaacdavis-dj8ou well it's considered one of the hardest terrains in Colorado so if she can get down then she good enough to not need a lesson to make her boots not hurt was my point.. she may not be technically flawless but it's laughable to think a ski lesson will fix her boot pain
@@beantownson6660 they have greens and blues at basin. Honestly you have to go way off piste at a basin to get into gnarly terrain, most is mellow blues and blacks.
It's sort of like the shoe industry. They've been ruining feet for 100 years, why stop now?!! Super cushy footbeds for no ground feel, lots of drop from heel to toe, smashing toes together causing bunions in old age, tons of arch support to make sure foot muscles, ligaments, and tendons never get used (atrophy, weaken), super stiff and tortionally rigid to eliminate ankle flex.... Obviously ski boots have a very different task to fulfill than shoes, but I don't think creating an exact anatomical negative mold of the calf, angle, and foot to stand in is the right way to do it.
My suggestion would to all she has to do is switch to snowboarding.❤ I can and do ride for 8 hours, drive to the store then go food shopping after in my boots
I'm agonizing a bit debating buying a $2,500 eMountain bike, I can't imagine paying $1,500 for some damn boots! I've only skied Cali, Nev, and Oregon. Utah, Montana, and the Hole are calling, but strangely I have little interest in Colorado between the crowds, expenses, tourists, traffic, etc. It's an instinct thing now confirmed by Angeline. I've always had an aversion to ski/boot shops, especially ones in the village like Squaw or Northstar. I go talk to my boys in Reno if need be!
Without knowing more than the 15 minutes of watching you talk about this woman I will tell you right now, Her foot is not meant for a Lange boot, her heel, her instep and her foot width are not the right make-up for that boot. That’s why she can’t make it work. The boot fitter that I go to, because I have terrible feet, treats me the same way he treats people with perfect feet! You can only fit in certain boots if you are going long term usage. Narrow heel and wide toe-box eliminates half the boots out there. High instep or flat feet also determine which boot manufacture you’re gonna go with. Did this woman pick the Lange because she liked it or was it the boot that the Ski store had? One boot fitter told me oh it doesn’t matter about the shell because we are going to change all the guts. That’s not true. If you have a neutral foot it’s still not true!
What are her other activities? Does she wear a lot of high heels? I'm not a podiatrist but wearing high heels over 100lbs...I would put you on some kind of stepcounter limit. "Cinderella" IRL 🤣
Flex bragging. Ha i did the opposite, i bought softer boots and hate it. I thought it was time to go down to a 120 from a 130, same brand but updated design, and i really don't like it especially in heavier snow. all good though it was a great deal and they will be my "weekend with the family boots"
I have a 210 flex (I'm kidding). I don't go over bumps and rollers, I plow a trench straight through them. 😆 I can feel tectonic plate tremors through my backbone will cruising the slopes.
Dude... just buy the boots you liked before. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And as far as flex, it depends on the flexibility of your ankle, and the conditions you ski in. Not surprising if someone pushes the flex that they are fine on groomers and miserable on moguls. Anyway, of course the ski industry can't wait to sell a bunch of unnecessary stuff to someone like this.
I'd like to request your thoughts on E-mtn bikes. Although I'm 53, I just feel like they're Cheating! And yet there's supposedly some screaming deals out in Reno-Tahoe area, $7,000 ebikes-mtn going for $2,500. I've got friends who e-mtn bike who love it, and I'll admit I'd like to ride w/them, and there's some long rides where an ebike would be nice, and I could expand my riding horizon too.
Also according to boot manufacturers and Austrian and German ski experts all agree that the heel needs to be set back into the heel of the boot first before cinching the buckles over your toes. If you cinch your buckles over your toes first it causes circulation to stop. By securing your mid ankle to the back of the boot now puts your foot in the proper position in the boot and the forefoot can be secured to a comfortable liking.
Without knowing more than the 15 minutes of watching you talk about this woman I will tell you right now, Her foot is not meant for a Lange boot, her heel, her instep and her foot width are not the right make-up for that boot. That’s why she can’t make it work. The boot fitter that I go to, because I have terrible feet, treats me the same way he treats people with perfect feet! You can only fit in certain boots if you are going long term usage. Narrow heel and wide toe-box eliminates half the boots out there. High instep or flat feet also determine which boot manufacture you’re gonna go with. Did this woman pick the Lange because she liked it or was it the boot that the Ski store had? One boot fitter told me oh it doesn’t matter about the shell because we are going to change all the guts. That’s not true. If you have a neutral foot it’s still not true!
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching and please go check out Angelina's Video Here: th-cam.com/video/KZLkD7AlxbI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MN7DAxL1v93I3zec
You should make a video about boot pain and collaborate with your followers to make a pretty comprehensive guide /chart to boot pain and how to solve them for thing that dint need permanent modification of the boot.
Appreciate the feedback Elliott! And thanks for not being so brutal with my skiing haha. Some things I want to clarify:
- When I said the Rossignol boots aren’t durable, I mean it in the most literal sense. The insoles are already shredded, and the hardware is obviously not super high quality. It’s not a comment on the flex.
- Every boot I take on the slope with me fit me comfortably while I’m in the shop. Flexed over the knees and everything. The problem starts when I'm actually skiing and my feet swell up.
- I'm not 100% sure yet of course, but I feel pretty confident about the Atomics because I skied on them for almost 30 minutes straight (revolving slopes are continuous, no lift breaks). This was also how I tried out the Rossignol boots the year before. Tbh I only picked 105 flex because they were on sale and in my size, but I had no issues flexing them. Guess I'll have to update once it starts snowing!
- To their credit, Surefoot did refund me, but I don't think that's the norm.
If you still have issues, there is a great boot fitter in Breck named Jeff Bergeron. His company is Boot Fixation. He doesn't sell boots but he can evaluate your feet and recommend boots suited to your foot shape. (Boot companies use different foot lasts so there is a lot of variability). He can also evaluate and modify your current boots, including canting, softening and grinding areas where you have pressure points causing your pain. There are a lot of really good fitters in SLC and Park City Utah. For any good boot fitter you will need to make an appointment well in advance.
What a relief to hear you got a refund. What a miserable time in and out of their shop. I have difficult feet and ended up in Atomic Hawx some years ago, but boy do they fit nice after a good boot fitter (working for a local sports shop) dialed stuff in, with a good brand selection on hand and knowledge of last shapes and so forth. The Hawx seem pretty durable from that standpoint. I previously had Langes and they were stiffer and less comfortable. I also have high arches so I need some molded support to keep from smashing down my instep and hurting my foot through the day.
I have zero experience with this woman but have only seen her working with Deb Armstrong on her video. Amanda Brotman, Ski and Bike Kare, Steamboat Springs, CO, featured on Deb Armstrong's videos. May want to check her out. /watch?v=DeD4wIhUp-0
I have zero experience with this person, but I have seen her speak and demonstrate boot fitting. You may want to look her up. Amanda Brotman, Ski and Bike Kare, Steamboat Springs, CO, featured on Deb Armstrong.
Glad to hear you got a refund, good on Surefoot for doing that, and thanks for clarifying!
99.99% of skiers have no need for a custom fit 1500$ boot. I skied 50 days last season on a Rossi all track 110, A budget boot. I’ve seen this girl ski, no need for this.
I got my foot beds done at Surefoot in Killington - they have been awesome. And the boot fitter at Northern Ski Works diagnosed that I needed heel lifters. Since then I've not really had problems even when coaching all day. Shoutout to those guys. And I got my Dalbellos at Mud Sweat and Gears.
I buy my boots at Killington Surefoot.
I got my first set of boots 10 years ago. I had to get new liners because I had too much play within the liner, but then perfect after that.
Updated last year with Surefoot again and they’ve been great!
It comes down to this, first your feet need to be comfortable and fitting perfectly in your ski boots Basically no pain or play and your feet are warm.
Next, you need to be warm so pick clothing and gloves that keep you warm and you don’t tense up. Finally get yourself a set of skies!
Oh, and nice job on the reviews Elliott, I really look forward to hearing your opinion
@10:43 So true that's why I'm a Head man. A good damp ski gets you over that intermediate hump. A lot of people get to intermediate, they definitely don't suck, but then they just stop progressing. They get that chatter and they just let up.
After years of pain and misery having to stop skiing every few hours I discovered Fischer Vacuum. Get the right flex, mold them for a huge upgrade get a zip liner. My feet feel like they are wearing a compression sock, no pressure point just pure comfort. I can ski 8 straight hours without touching a buckle. nothing comes close. just get the vacuum, and don't forget a proper footbed.
I really feel for her pain because for years all o skied on were packed out ski boots that I had to over cranck to get rid of shin bang bit that cut off the circulation to my toes. So injust dealt with numb and or burning toes for a few years and last season I was fed up and I agonized over what boots to get for 3 months and what skis to pair it with for 6 months and last winter I rode on them and I have to say that I think I picked the perfect mix for me. I do have problems with chatter but I chalk that up to my self taught lazy skiing.
This makes me glad for the shop where I got my new boots. I've been back several times for adjustments and each adjustment has been an improvement. They even told me, after the second or third adjustment, they'd let me return them if I wasn't happy. I don't know if that's the norm or not but I'd never had a shop tell me that before.
If she’s in breck she is close to the best boot shop in Colorado. It’s called a racers edge and it’s an incredible shop they do an incredible job. Surefoot only works for people with a really narrow foot with small calf’s
I went from 100 boots that were 12 years old to 120 boots brand new and didn't have any pain ever with no adjustment (simply didn't need). I ended up adding a custom insole just to add some volume because I have very narrow and long feet (already narrow fit boots). I can't believe we still hear such crap with the amount of choices we have today for boots (and same thing for shoes). As you said, if it's not comfortable in the shop, we should not leave with them.
It's sad she had to go through all this and then people give her crap on social media.
We are lucky here in Australia, we have some great bootfitters here. Just updated my boots from the Nordica Firearrow to the Technica Mach 1 HV, so far they are a great fit. Also found out that my knees are a couple of degrees out of alignment becuase of Arthritis in both knees.
I went through something very similar in my ski journey. In my teens / early 20's i was an occasional skier, and used a softer flex boot in one size too large. It worked fine and I was always comfortable skiing. But I started to dedicate more time to skiing and started progressing, so "upgraded" to proper sized stiffer flex boots. This exposed some foot issues i have naturally with high arches, and was experiencing bad foot pains while being in the boots even for a short while (even sometimes by the time i got up the first lift). I went through multiple boots, custom sizing, custom footbeds etc. It eventually got to the point where I stopped skiing completely in my early 30s, it just took the fun and enjoyment right out of the sport. However about 4 years ago, I decided to take another attempt at it again. I went to a ski shop, tried a pile of boots on, and despite my hesitations, ended up in a soft 80 flex Salomon S/Pro boot (Im 190lb male). I put in a footbed I know works great for my other footwear, and my ski life was changed. I was able to ski again with no foot pain, I've progressed my skills over the last 4 years to a level higher than I ever have, and absolutely love skiing again. That being said, I can feel the limitations in my boots, and the flex is definitely hindering some performance, especially in warmer weather. I'm going to attempt a higher flex again this year, and see what happens. Hoping the S/pro in a 100-120 gives me that extra bit of support, but still maintains my comfort. Fingers crossed!
Been told I've been very lucky, but I've fared well buying boots online. Got my latest pair, 2021 K2 Recons 140 Flex in late April for $300; I'm size 28.5 and followed Elliot's advice and bought my popular size while it was still in stock! I'll admit after day 1 on a baby powder day, when it warmed up and the pow turned to sludge, I quit before noon and was worried I'd bitten off more than I could chew. The learning curve was more than expected! But next day in corn snow skied wonderfully and have been in love w/my new boots ever since. I'll follow E's advice and wear my next new boots around the house a day before taking them up the hill.
I hear I'm on a racing flex, and also that a K2 140 flex is like a 110 or 120 in other brands. I'm going from a 90 flex so IDK about all that, but I'm happy to say I really love the new boots. The moment I got on them I felt the edging difference, and I really feel the ski roll edge over to edge now. I can almost keep pace w/young Squaw rippers now which is a big surprise! I really like grabs w/these boots, feels like I'm just flicking the ski, it's much less work now. I wasn't feeling Shifty at all until riding on the new boots, then suddenly I'm getting Tailgrabs off jumps, and getting about half of that Shifty motion. Now I'm practicing Shifty jumping off stumps in my yard in my old boots, some indoor trampoline sessions are next before November!
I watched her videos a year ago and she said she was making progress with a used pair of beginner boots but felt the custom pair put her in pain and made it hard to ski. First thing I thought was a low threshold for having foot in a confined boot and the flex was too high. Neither thing is her fault. We all have different thresholds for foot confinement. I wear a mens 12 shoe but am perfectly comfortable in a Mondo 27. I know fellow skiers with the same street shoe size that are in 28.5 or 29. So we're all different. Also flex is as meaningless across bands as trail ratings are between mountains. One big indication the flex is too stiff for her is that when she jumps on more advanced terrain is when the pain comes. My hypothesis is that the higher flex boots are preventing the ankle flexion needed to absorb the shock and preventing good technique. BTW for $1500 she could have purchased 5 or 6 pairs of ski boots of various shapes, sizes and flex and either return or the sell the ones she didn't like.
Also not sure if you're old enough to remember this but the "Lange shin bang saga" comes to mind with her story. Lange was one of the first big molded commercially available race boots in the late 70s early 80s and every one wanted a pair, the problem was they really only worked well for a very specific foot type (low volume, very narrow etc.) everyone else without that body type experienced the "Lange bang" and spent countless hours trying to modify the pain out of these boots. Find what feels good and ski the snot out of it.
I've heard the boot custom insoles are a Game Changer, yet I'm frugal! I've gotten cheaper than $10 athletic insoles off Amazon & Temu and must say that jump landings are much softer & easier on the knees now!
May have more to do with the needs of your individual foot. I had heat molded insoles made, because I have high arches and need to prevent my arch from being flatted by clamp forces through the day. It's done wonders for me. Someone else with a rather flat foot may not find the benefits.
@@exothermal.sprocket right on man, guess I have about average arches, the thick gelled athletic insoles have been perfect for me thus far
@@anthonyalpha4118 You may not benefit from heat molded footbeds if you have average feet.
Also of note, most footwear for the last 100 years has done more to destroy people's feet than strengthen them (don't get me started). So a person's arch condition may, or may not be strong and natural as biologically designed, depending on what their footwear history has been. The foot arch should not have to have support to remain strong and resilient but sadly people can reach the point of needing this support (preventing plantar facetious for example) because of weakened foot muscles, tendons, and ligaments due to most footwear trends. Ski boots are a little different, in that they force the foot into certain shapes via clamps and buckles.
My wife had always used rental boots and had even bought a pair that “fit” when we first went skiing together she would be crying after each run we did because of pain and she thought that was normal for ski boots! one visit to a proper fitter has transformed things.
Fun Video! You need a whole wall of whiteboards of flow charts, praeto diagrams and alike. 😂
"Interesting concept" (quote from Fred Schepisi 1994 I.Q. movie)
Great advice Elliott!!! Legend!
Elliott Ski Investigator & Detective 😊⛷
Angelina got fleeced BIG TIME by Surefoot. I wonder if she bought her boots at the resort or in a town?
Yes she got them at Breckenridge... But surefoot is that expensive everywhere, they are all custom, you pick a retail shell then you are paying for the customer foot bed and custom foam liner.. that's why they cost that. The shell itself sells at retail
I'm a snowboarder, so no idea why I'm even watching your videos, but the honesty and knowledge is highly appreciated, something lacking in many reviewers today in the snowsports scene. Good stuff, seriously
But you're still a skier, so: Your mom
I'm not a bootfitter, but this seems like a case of getting the order of operations wrong after a bad initial fit. Like, the troubleshooting flow chart they used (either from company training or boot fitter intuition or whatever) should not have taken so long to identify the right flex that she could flex properly from a body geometry and physics standpoint, and it should not have taken that long to find a shell with the right size and width. Given the experiences with Surefoot discussed here, it almost seems like their boot fitters are using the Surefoot liners as a crutch to make up for their lack of knowledge on how to fit people to the right shells.
I'm feeling very fortunate to have basically not ever had major alpine ski boot issues as an adult. Cross-country ski boots have been another story. I did the 30 km skate Kortelopet a couple seasons ago (the mini version of the American Birkebeiner), and the bottoms of my feet (basically my arches) were in so much pain I could not walk when I clipped out of of my skis, even in street shoes. That was actually a vast improvement from before I got custom insoles, when I could barely ski 10 km of gently-rolling terrain (as opposed to the difficult, steep hills of the Birkie trail), and I had to stop every 1.5 km or so to let my feet take a break. Hopefully this season won't be as painful on skate skis, as I went back and had my skate boot insoles re-made using a insole blank with a new, different composition.
1500???? Okay, that’s my 2 weeks of skiing in Austria. Place to sleep & Skiing pass and food included. Wow.
With the kind of money she is spending on the boot and the pain that she is in, she should take a trip and get fitted at Daleboot. I have never tried them, but I may in the future if I have more money. The flex number is not always comparable between brands. A 120 flex Head boot will feel softer than a 120 flex Lange boot for example. Her boots were not durable - this is correct. Have you seen the liners for women's 60 flex boots? It is like bedroom slipper foam inside a hard plastic shell. When she says it is not durable, it is probably the liner that she is talking about. Perhaps she could try a custom foam liner in those 60 flex boots that worked for her.
I really like your video and the discussion that you have started here. I have foot pain with my current boots, but they are the best I have found in the past few years. The pain is manageable if I take a break after a bit of skiing. Ski boots seem to be made for a certain type of European foot, and do not fit well for some other types.
I am an advanced skier and have a small foot for a man. I measure at 25.5, and tried that size boot for a year when I started skiing again 3 years ago. After skiing on it for a season and breaking it in, I found that it was way too big for me. I went down to a 24.5 and the performance while skiing was MUCH better. Both were Head Rebels 120 flex boots which is about right for me. I generally only can find "race" boots in my size. The manufacturers literally don't make most of the boots that I would like to try in a 24.5. If you are an advanced skier that needs a stiff boot, you are supposed to have a bigger foot or be a racer. I could use women's boots, but they tend to be too low and not stiff enough for my style of skiing. Also, I don't like the look of most women's boots as a guy, and the liners tend to be way too soft.
Running shoes: YES! I have had pain in all running shoes for the last 15 years. I just got a set of Saucony Endorphin Speed shoes this year and I was astonished that the pain has gone away. I am now in the process of trying to run again. I am older now, and conditioning takes longer.
Stiffness and durability can be somewhat related. The lesser flex boots don’t always use the same material and the liners are cheaper. This is why stiffer flex boots are more expensive.
i had a small issue with the eleventh toe as well, but my bootfitter was also able to easily fix it. i think you are right with this womens issue on the boot stifness, 80 or so. flex goes down over time so maybe she would have gotten away with fresh 70 ones that would feel stiffer to worn out ones already.
thanks rickty' ski review', my feet are arched evenly', luckily', custom mold to your foot inner liners are the exciting to me! with boot' developments' i like lange or salomon boots. thanks elliot ' so funny!😄
There's also a Rossi Alltrack 80, which is the same width as her old boots (and the Pure 70). If she's having a bit of a heel lift problem, that is much easier to fix than a width or arch problem.
I think I even commented on her channel when she was talking about boots.. I went up the lift with her during early season.. I saw her ski and she was pretty good.. I am trying to remember what skis I was on.. I think I was on my 2021 Kastle FX 96HP.. I am pretty sure she was on QST 93s.. I only say the skis because she was faster down the hill but I think her skis were more maneuverable than mine for the amount of people on the hill.. I want to say the length of her skis were around 170 and the length of my skis were 180..
P.J Dewey. - Race Stock Sports In Waterbury VT . Is the guy you want to see . I assume thats the Stowe Guy Elliott mentions
Yes! You nailed it.
Watched her videos, and I was kind of stunned... Surely, the right person/fitter can do a proper shell fit and make a comfortable orthotic that will work? Crazy...
Greg Coulter in the MtHood region is the man! Racing or touring and beginner or intermediate, Greg is the man. By the way, if one is comfortable and a Rosignol laynge is not gonna fit their foot.
Custom footbeds and boot heaters made all foot pain go away.
Perhaps the fitter in Stowe is Inner BootWorks? Jamie ended a very expensive/frustrating 4 year, 3 boot, 4 fitter experience.
As an advanced/expert skier that only gets about 10 days a year I find your opinions on equipment valuable. With so few days on snow the trial and error process of optimizing skis, bindings and boots is difficult logistically. Videos like yours help me get them most out of the few days I get, thank you!
Hello Elliot, I think I need your advice. What would you say, as a 72kg heavy person, 180cm tall, do you think 167cm ski for tree skiing is a good idea, will it work? Or should I rather go for the bigger size option: 172cm?
What are your thoughts on this?
It would be interesting to see the shape of her foot. She is a petite person and at her level should be in a fairly soft boot that perhaps need to be somewhat widely lasted. IMO I’ve always had success with Nordica boots. I know boots are a very personal thing, but I find them to be a very good starting point for fitting.
Obviously people can spend their time and money anyway they want to. With that said, I try on ski boots at a shop during a sale. I find the boot that fits the best (with minimal pain) in the 120-130 flex. I also go into the shop in the evening after I have been on my feet all day and have gone to the gym a few hours earlier (get my feet nice and swollen). I will bring in my upgraded footbed to the store to place in the boots when trying them on with my ski socks since the footbeds that come with the boots are normally terrible for mid to high arched feet. I then look online for the same boot and if it is cheaper online, I ask if the ski shop will price match. My preference is to buy the boot at the ski shop, so if the shop will at least make an effort to somewhat price match, I will buy the boot at the ski shop. I do not do custom boot fitting. I am not a ski racer, so absolute precision is not necessary. Just remember that the tightest the boot will ever be is when you first buy it. This is why I am ok with minimal pain when buying. The boot will gradually expand. Also remember that the boot will be much stiffer outside in the cold when skiing versus in a warm ski shop. I don't need to spend an extra $300-$400 for custom boot fitting with a custom footbed. You can buy an upgraded footbed for extra arch support and/or comfort for $15-$60 if you need that. Dr. Schols at Target is $15 (Dr. Schols makes some for athletics or extra work duty with robust arch support) or Sidas footbeds are $45-$60 ( $45 if they are on sale). Good luck to everyone.
I’ve got a pair of K2 mindbender 120’s and I don’t have any problems other than my toes getting cold on most occasions. I still have the stock liners that came with the boot and have considered upgrading, but unsure if this would help with warmth.
I have had this problem with cold toes ever since I was a kid playing hockey.. my toes would turn white and go numb most times when playing.
You should try the K2 heated boots
Went to sure foot 15 yrs ago and it cost approx 900 then. Huge amount. Boots never fit right, two years of misery!
Also according to boot manufacturers and Austrian and German ski experts all agree that the heel needs to be set back into the heel of the boot first before cinching the buckles over your toes. If you cinch your buckles over your toes first it causes circulation to stop. By securing your mid ankle to the back of the boot now puts your foot in the proper position in the boot and the forefoot can be secured to a comfortable liking.
C'mon... you really didn't know that major western ski resorts charge $1000+ for 3 hour private lessons... eastern resorts are in $400+ range 🤔
However; ski instructors only get paid $21-$30 per hour depending on certification level and experience...
To be fair... tips can range from $200+... 💰👀
Exactly; never pay retail MSRP+ for ski gear... shop off season...
I just purchased a set of Atomic Maverick 88ti with Atomic Strive 14 bindings for $450...
It sounds like she is losing her love/enthusiasm for skiing.... that is the sad part of the story! 🥲
Maybe multiple set of ski boots depending on how she is going to ski that day? 🤔
👍 on the vlog...
Great comment, keep an eye out as it will be featured in our next video!
Half-day private lessons at Brundage in Idaho: $269 non-holiday, $319 holiday
@@RogerBradshaw-dc1hm Private Ski Lessons prices do vary. Many factors such as the popularity of the ski resort, notoriety of the ski school, proximity to metro areas. etc..
jeeeeeez I would just become a snowboarder if I had that level of boot problems. Or heaven forbid, a leatherboot telemarker.
Surefoot horror stories are a real thing!
Classic sunk cost fallacy - I spent so much on this thing, I need to make it work. But, I'm so glad she got a refund. I saw her original videos when they came out. $1500 is a lot of money but it's not outrageous for a hobby you are passionate about. I spent $3500 on a camera plus $1200 on a lens for photography.
I watched all of Angela videos about this and my comment about surefoot was basically identical to you.. skiing for 30+ years and have never had custom boots.. my theory is they are to precise and don't accommodate natural shrinking of foot in cold and natural swelling from being on your feet all day.
I couldn't believe ppl were telling her to take ski lessons.. she skiing a basin, so yea all those commentators can quiet down
Just because you ski a basin doesn’t mean your good
@@isaacdavis-dj8ou well it's considered one of the hardest terrains in Colorado so if she can get down then she good enough to not need a lesson to make her boots not hurt was my point.. she may not be technically flawless but it's laughable to think a ski lesson will fix her boot pain
@@beantownson6660 they have greens and blues at basin. Honestly you have to go way off piste at a basin to get into gnarly terrain, most is mellow blues and blacks.
It's sort of like the shoe industry. They've been ruining feet for 100 years, why stop now?!! Super cushy footbeds for no ground feel, lots of drop from heel to toe, smashing toes together causing bunions in old age, tons of arch support to make sure foot muscles, ligaments, and tendons never get used (atrophy, weaken), super stiff and tortionally rigid to eliminate ankle flex....
Obviously ski boots have a very different task to fulfill than shoes, but I don't think creating an exact anatomical negative mold of the calf, angle, and foot to stand in is the right way to do it.
My suggestion would to all she has to do is switch to snowboarding.❤ I can and do ride for 8 hours, drive to the store then go food shopping after in my boots
I'm agonizing a bit debating buying a $2,500 eMountain bike, I can't imagine paying $1,500 for some damn boots! I've only skied Cali, Nev, and Oregon. Utah, Montana, and the Hole are calling, but strangely I have little interest in Colorado between the crowds, expenses, tourists, traffic, etc. It's an instinct thing now confirmed by Angeline. I've always had an aversion to ski/boot shops, especially ones in the village like Squaw or Northstar. I go talk to my boys in Reno if need be!
You bought a moped.
@@michaelrandall9034 lol not yet I'm agonizing considering it
@@anthonyalpha4118 🍻Keep pedaling!!!
@@michaelrandall9034 Thanks Yaa!
Maybe her socks are at fault? Maybe she tightens them wrong after leaving the shop? plenty of reasons to go wrong
Without knowing more than the 15 minutes of watching you talk about this woman I will tell you right now, Her foot is not meant for a Lange boot, her heel, her instep and her foot width are not the right make-up for that boot. That’s why she can’t make it work. The boot fitter that I go to, because I have terrible feet, treats me the same way he treats people with perfect feet! You can only fit in certain boots if you are going long term usage. Narrow heel and wide toe-box eliminates half the boots out there. High instep or flat feet also determine which boot manufacture you’re gonna go with. Did this woman pick the Lange because she liked it or was it the boot that the Ski store had? One boot fitter told me oh it doesn’t matter about the shell because we are going to change all the guts. That’s not true. If you have a neutral foot it’s still not true!
A great place to buy ski boots and get fitted is STROLZ Ski Shop in Lech, Austria… just sayin’ 😉
What are her other activities? Does she wear a lot of high heels? I'm not a podiatrist but wearing high heels over 100lbs...I would put you on some kind of stepcounter limit. "Cinderella" IRL 🤣
Flex bragging. Ha i did the opposite, i bought softer boots and hate it. I thought it was time to go down to a 120 from a 130, same brand but updated design, and i really don't like it especially in heavier snow. all good though it was a great deal and they will be my "weekend with the family boots"
I have a 210 flex (I'm kidding). I don't go over bumps and rollers, I plow a trench straight through them. 😆 I can feel tectonic plate tremors through my backbone will cruising the slopes.
Dude... just buy the boots you liked before. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And as far as flex, it depends on the flexibility of your ankle, and the conditions you ski in. Not surprising if someone pushes the flex that they are fine on groomers and miserable on moguls. Anyway, of course the ski industry can't wait to sell a bunch of unnecessary stuff to someone like this.
I'd like to request your thoughts on E-mtn bikes. Although I'm 53, I just feel like they're Cheating! And yet there's supposedly some screaming deals out in Reno-Tahoe area, $7,000 ebikes-mtn going for $2,500. I've got friends who e-mtn bike who love it, and I'll admit I'd like to ride w/them, and there's some long rides where an ebike would be nice, and I could expand my riding horizon too.
Also according to boot manufacturers and Austrian and German ski experts all agree that the heel needs to be set back into the heel of the boot first before cinching the buckles over your toes. If you cinch your buckles over your toes first it causes circulation to stop. By securing your mid ankle to the back of the boot now puts your foot in the proper position in the boot and the forefoot can be secured to a comfortable liking.
Without knowing more than the 15 minutes of watching you talk about this woman I will tell you right now, Her foot is not meant for a Lange boot, her heel, her instep and her foot width are not the right make-up for that boot. That’s why she can’t make it work. The boot fitter that I go to, because I have terrible feet, treats me the same way he treats people with perfect feet! You can only fit in certain boots if you are going long term usage. Narrow heel and wide toe-box eliminates half the boots out there. High instep or flat feet also determine which boot manufacture you’re gonna go with. Did this woman pick the Lange because she liked it or was it the boot that the Ski store had? One boot fitter told me oh it doesn’t matter about the shell because we are going to change all the guts. That’s not true. If you have a neutral foot it’s still not true!