One of the things I enjoy most about your videos is that I can come back and review them time and time again, and pick up new tips and points of interest each time. Your material is relevant, incredibly well thought out, and so very helpful! I refer friends and students to your material almost daily during the season. Thanks for being such an incredible asset and friend to our wonderful sport! You Rock!
Thank you for this Deb! Boot fitting is not a one time visit, it is a trusted relationship you build over time. Pick a fitter with experience and passion for the nuances. I can attest the investment is worth it. As a new ski instructor 4 yrs ago, my Vt ski school and PSIA friends convinced me to see a local boot fitter. The fit improved my stance and changed my skiing in a very short time. I would not have passed the PSIA skiing assessments I & II without Bill Haight’s expertise!
A great demonstration on the ergonomics of proper boot fitting Deb. Amanda hit it on the point that individuality is key to finding the right fit; there is no such thing as a one design for all. When clients and the general public ask me about what equipment they should invest more in their ski attire, I tell them "Skis are skis, don't go short on boots". Lastly, finding an honest Boot tech is as valuable as an honest auto mechanic and as lifelong professional ski instructors its important to have a Boot tech to compliment your Ski tech. Looks like your feet are in good hands Deb.
From a lifetime of skiing, buying boots, fitting/selling boots, using boots -- very very few people who sell boots are knowledgeable about boot fit and how it plays into an individual skier's needs. Most shops just want a pair sold and out the door, relatively speaking. They'll offer to do follow up or initial fits but I find very few know what they're doing other than knowing how long to bake a liner, for example. Then they might put folds and creases in the liner and you wonder what happened to my sweet fit, my great liners. It can be a real ordeal if you don't have a very average foot, ankle, lower leg of the kind the boot's last was designed around. After 7 yrs of bootfitting in my late teens and 20s, I find it very hard these days to let the sales person fumble through a boot fit, I am probably annoying because I tell them how they could improve their approach. Or -- I go to another shop and ask for the guy there who does know fitting and alignment. Then I know he's listening to me and what I need, vs me and the sales guy talking past each other.
Amanda is one hell of a knowledgeable bootfitter. So many good points about how boots are different now because we don't torque and twist skis, and we can and should be more upright and able to stay centered. I learned bootfitting in the late 70s back when Warren Witherell's ideas were cooking. Back then footbeds were firm cork and most were trying to get anatomic neutrality vs giving the foot flexion and suspension. I had some boot work, alignment and footbeds done a decade ago by Brent Amsbury, he discussed the evoution in footbeds and made me some that were surprisingly flexible compared to my old old corkies and my newer firm/posted synthetics. I doubted their usefulness, out loud, to him. He said, "just ski them." Next day at lunch I tracked him down and thanked him profusely. Amazing to have suspension through my foot, so much better snow feel. I know why you love those footbeds, Deb!
@craigjones7954 Thanks Craig. I learned at Ski Center in Wash DC, learned from Brian Eardley. Brian may be retired now. He's a pedorthist and he was early (relatively speaking) in emphasizing alignment. He'd done work with Witherell in his past. I had cant wedges between skis and bindings back in the mid 80s for my alignment issues, we had the old CB Sports device that you stand on, with pivoting platforms. When I started back skiing in 2000 after almost 15 years off, I skied w/o the cants and boy did my knees suffer. 2 yrs later I went back to cants, this time on my boot soles, Bud Heishman did that pair. Then in 2011, Brent Amsbury did my current pair and made me a new footbed.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong You're welcome. Thank you for the great videos, this is the first I've seen where you talk depth on boots, but I've watched many. You're really good, Deb.
WOW. I would soooo love to get fitted by Amanda. She is incredibly knowledgeable, friendly, professional, curious, humble and confident!! I see why you have come back to her over the years Deb. Lord help me find a bootfitter like Amanda somewhere in my area! Thank you Amanda for sharing your time ans expertise !!❤
Deb, such a great video maybe one of your best. Info was so useful especially as I am going to a softer flex and more upright fit. My Masters race days are over and just want to enjoy fast cruising now. Thanks Deb. One of my bucket list items is to meet you on a chairlift and express how fantastic you are at reaching and teaching people.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Deb, did you ever know Jim Weiss of Wisdom MT, formerly of eastern OR? I used to share a chair with him and work on skiing with him every weekend in 2001 and 02. Every chair ride, constant nuggets of wisdom. I suspect I'd think the same if I rode the lift with you!
Super informative. One of the better videos about the boot fitting process I've seen. Last year, for the first time for me, I went to buy the boots the proper way; go into a reputable shop and ask for a boot fitter's help with the whole process. I got a great pair of boots but I was "disappointed" 😅 because the guy told me there wasn't much, if anything, for him to correct in my case. He said it's very rare. I did feel a few pressure points eventually in the season so I'll go and ask to see if they can correct those.
I appreciate your comment about not needing the stiffest boot out there. An unfortunate part of the boot world is the quality of materials with the better liners in stiffer boots. I wish there were more options to get a good liner in the softer boots without needing to buy an aftermarket liner right away
Two options, somewhat at opposite ends of fit and feel, are ZipFit liners, and Intuition liners. ZipFit corkflo is firm and precise around the ankle and midfoot, best precise fit you'll find, but you have to put on the liners 1st then foot+liner into shell, which some people hate. Intuition is comfy and relatively precise, very warm. ZipFit can feel a bit cold to some people. Intuition, IMO, is plenty precise for recreational skiing.
@@seanoneil277 I just got my first pair of Intuition Liners to put into my old boots. I've never gone supermarket liner before. I do have a real issue with cold toes - frost bitten too many times in the tight tight boots of my youth. My newer boots I'm still happy with the stock liners.
@@chadridsdale9970 Cold toes are quite common, if you listened to Amanda & Deb talking about what warms your foot you will know to use a very thin sock despite that being counter-intuitive if you have cold toes/feet. The boot's synthetic shell and the boot's liner are pretty good insulators, better than your street/work shoes or boots. You don't need extra sock insulation. Just a good fit with no pinching of blood vessels that supply the forefoot. Which means, good fit no pinch over the instep. If you chose the proper size Intuition for your shell fit, you should be quite happy with the liners for warmth & comfort. Provided they are molded properly, that is.
One hundred percent agree. A good boot fitter is invaluable! Nothing is more important to skiing performance and comfort. And a set of full custom footbeds is worth every penny and will last decades.
And I just remembered two more VERY important things. 1) Be sure to adjust the upper cuff canting if your boots have that feature. 2) Learn the proper buckling sequence. Thanks again, Deb.
A good boot fitter is a strange cat hard to find and when you do they don't stick around long. A great boot fitter is insane and enjoys inflicting the painful process on clients. th-cam.com/video/K8fuBiOwNmk/w-d-xo.html
Just listening you guys talking, I learned so much. Thanks for much for Deb and Amanda. Also, thanks for making the point that "you don't necessarily need a pair of stiff boots".
From my experience with boot fitters I gather they are quite eccentric and the best ones I know are very reclusive and avoid promoting their business opting only for referrals from ski industry race reps sending only their top race clients to independent fitters and sending all others to more humane fitters with ski shops.
This is one of the best boot fitting videos I have ever seen I was wondering if you would make a video about getting up after you have fallen on the slopes . you do such a good job at auto describing for all people.
It is much easier to get up on steep slopes than on the flats. On flats I often recommend taking one or both skis off, get up, put your ski(s) back on. It is faster, safer than struggling if you don't have the strength and balance to use your body to erect a scaffold to hoist your butt up off the snow.
Amazing and thank you from France. I love your videos. I wish you the best. Big Respect for your great Carrier 40 years and you still look the same. 84 Sarajevo ❤
Hi Deb, Your videos are great. I have learned so much especially about boot fitting. Please do a video with details about new lace up boot liners, both stock and aftermarket boot liners. You have talked about your lace up liners in other videos and with older boots. I looked for the Tecnica boots you had with the lace up liner and could never find much about them. I have a hard right foot to fit and have spent hours tweaking the fit with regular liners. I have seen the aftermarket lace up liners and they seem like a great option for me. But my newer shells are stiffer and putting the lace up or aftermarket liners into newer boot shells can be hard. But with you fitting new boots and you seem to be getting lace up liners, it would be so great to have you go into the subject in detail. I missed you in Taos last year. Hopefully you come back. Thanks
Really helpful Deb and Amanda. Especially the insight about the forward lean of the boot. My instinct has long been that I would engage the front of my skis better if the boot forward lean angle was less. So much info out there says the opposite. Great to hear experienced people dispel common dogma.
I couldn’t agree more that investing in boot and good fit is a great investment- and I kept finding nuggets of interest throughout this video (long but worth it!)
I've never met Kelly but the name has been prominent in boot fitting (performance and racing) for a good while now, I recall seeing Kelly mentioned a lot about 20 yrs ago.
My wife and I got boots from Kelly about 30 years ago when he had a shop called Flamingo Sports in Issaquah WA. Butch White recommended Kelly to us. I ended up with the hot pink Lange XM boots (softer cuff).
Amazing boot fitter. I need new boots but don't think I'll make it to Steamboat Springs this fall. I think I'll try Boot Doctors at Taos, just a few hours from my home in Albuquerque.
What a great video. It’s awesome to see a boot fitter who listens and speaks with knowledge unlike the boot bros who think being in constant pain builds character 😮. In 50 years of skiing I’ve never put on my boots and said “ahhh, this feels good!” I’m so jealous. Are there any Amandas in California?
Yes! Go see Jim at Start Haus. He is a Masterfit instructor, and long time boot fitter with a wealth of knowledge. Not to mention, a very approachable, nice guy. Tell him I said hello :) ps, thank you for the compliment, it’s much appreciated.
Super interesting video. I'm a size 23.5 so finding an appropriate flex boot in my size and men's cuff height is near impossible. I tried several boots, interesting thing is the Fischer points my foot almost 90 degrees to the outside while standing, so far Head and K2 don't do that, along with my old boots, foot points straight ahead, I love my boots to fit as close as possible out of box with minimal changes. Also I am old school from the old Tecnica TNT and Explosion era where flatter ramp angles were awesome, and taller boot cuffs were perfect since I'm tall. I want the Explosion to make a comeback. Great video, I think the boot manufacturers need to make some changes and go back to what worked. We need to have a conversation with them, they don't understand.
Fischer started using that little anatomic splay (very mild "duck foot", or small angle deviation outward vs "pigeon toe" inward) around 2003 or 04 if I recall correctly. Lots of folks have said it makes things easier to access the big toe edge of the ski.
@@seanoneil277 perhaps if you have issues with alignment but being female it made the outside of my hips hurt and just completely messed up my natural stance, also it slowed the time to edge because i had to change all the angles that got forced out of place. Not a good thing for me at all.
@@CC-ys8qq Anatomically, women tend toward wider hips, creating a different angle between hip socket and ankle/foot/boot than most men have. This makes women, especially those with wider hips and a greater angle, sensitive to what happens down at the foot/ankle/boot. (And also at the knee, more vulnerable to knee injury unfortunately.) Even thin-hipped women will tend to have more of this angle than a wide-framed man. Whether that duck-foot stance works for any skier can only be determined by use, and it seems for you it's an uncomfortable thing. Your anatomy may prefer neutral. Pigeon toe might be a happy place but it's bad for the ACL and the other knee ligaments, pre-stresses them in most cases from what I recall. I recall Bob Barnes, author of The Encyclopedia of Skiing, mentioning that for him the new duck-foot stance was a great advantage. Sorry it didn't work well for you.
@@seanoneil277 Bob Barnes is male, totally different anatomy and muscular structure/strength, males can't relate to what it feels like to ski in a woman's body and vice versa. I think the goal is to have a boot fit right out of the box with minimal work, unfortunately for me the Fischer concept causes pain to my hips right off the bat, something a boot should not contribute to at all. Again totally different body structure men vs. women.
I might have had my Ah Ha moment last night skiing (ref the video you did with your bro regarding forward lean and driving your boots). Grabbed a set of race style boots (lace up liner, tight heel cap etc) for the first time (rather than rec style comfort boots) and was really able to feel myself power the ski through the turn with ankle flexion. The difference was like driving a sedan vs a sports car. Nothing wrong with either but the bio feedback from the performance boots trigger a much different connection with the ski. Thanks Deb and Amanda
I'm noticing that I prefer a less stiffer boot I went from a 120 to a 90 and it's so much more comfortable. I always thought ability corresponded with stiffness. This video proves that is not the case, thanks.
Great video. Just wondering why they don't extend the cushioning on the bladder a little further forward to accommodate pressure points around the metatarsal area.
Regarding those out of the box adjustments, I wouldn't have even been able to get my new boots on without some adjustments. Latch location and whatever the thing on the back of the cuff is where changed even before they went on my feet
Great video! I wish I had access to expertise like this in Western NY. But the best I can do for now is buy a snug fit heat moldable boot and liner so at least my feet are happier.
I'll also add that I'll be in TSV in January and this video inspired me to go to the Boot Doctors there. Seeing that custom footbeds can be moved from boot to boot now increases my comfort level of buying them 😁
Andy, your best bet to find a good fitter is to find a local ski hill that has a healthy race program, and ask the coaches who they use/recommend. You may have to travel a bit, depending on where in WNY you are. But people have been ski racing in NY for decades, the knowledge has to be there.
STIFF BOOTS SEEM TO HAVE HIGH BEST QUALITY LINERS; less stiff [eg 'lower end'] are not firmly supportive EG has "fuzzy faux fur for easier entry/exit, sloppier in the same size etc. Giving good boots more flex is an important mention. Hurray for bootfitters! Great video, thanks!
Thanks for responding Deb. Great video ! Any recommendations in the North East on a boot fitter with this kind of knowledge ? Because many shops I've visited don't sure me with the questions I ask and the answers I get. Seems like most just want to sell a set of boots, go through the motions of " fitting" and send you on your way without paying after to detail such as you received during your fitting session.......
Deb/Amanda - do you know nay talented boot fitters in the Tahoe area? Would love to see Amanda about it, but just dont travel much to Colo. My son is an extreme pronator and efforts to correct his boot to achieve a neutral position has basically created two mini torture devices... even after 4-6 attempts to reduce the corrective additions to the boot (with a "specialty boot fitter" in Squaw Valley who shall remain nameless). Tons of pain underfoot and w/ ankles during more aggressive edging - esp w/ steeps, moguls etc. It's really hurt his interest in skiing and is preventing normal progression. Thanks so much for any help you can provide!
Deb this is a great video to review ahead of my next boot fitting. As fate would have it, I'm staying in Steamboat for the month of January. What is the name of the shop that are filming this video with Amanda.
I just wing it and don't worry about boots. My 5 pair ha ha. We are articulating now. Not too tight. I like that forward punch. Time to work on boots. 2 weeks till opening here. Boots are super important. Good boot is golden. I just keep using. Fischer is rocking it these days.
Deb, good ski boots is fundamental skiing. Can you tell me/us more about forward lean/ramp angle (13, 15 or other degrees) and ankle flex? For example you use boots flex 110 (quite stiff for woman recreational skiing). How does this relate to possibility ankle flex range? I am trying to understand these relationships (in relation to the correct position/ski stance)
I love working on my own boots. It’s costs me money at times because I have bought the wrong boots, and I’d never recommend anyone NOT to go to a boot fitter, but if you’re willing to but in the effort to learn all you can about the topic, you can fit you’re own boots quite well…granted I have two sole inserts, shin shims, and fitting foam at various locations on my liner which probably wouldn’t be needed if I’d gone to a boot fitter in the first place 😅
First let me say congratulations, a boot fitting video by someone who really does understand boot fitting and stance. I totally agree with you about your footbed and like your reply to Mikhail. The emphasis on foot support as if the foot doesn't need to pronate and supinate inside the boot is really poorly understood.
Left a question in the comment section of your other boot fitting video: Was asking if you could recommend a boot fitter here on the North East Coast of the US, Killington, Vermont / North East area of that would be as good as the young lady who fitted your boots ? Seems to be a challenge to find a boot fitter who has the knowledge and experience to want to do it correctly. Most that I have encountered just want to do a "generic" boot fit for size and make the sale which has frustrated me for years and it's also very costly for the average individual. Thank you for any suggestions, Mike.......
Very informative video! Deb, how long do the stock liners normally last for you in your boots? I was curious how you handle liner replacement after the stock liners pack out and if you had any plans to try Fischer's new Zipfit liners.
Well how did the boots do out on the hill. I have had many boots that felt like a dream while fitting but were terrible after a few hours out on the hill.
I like it. As for the minutia, I have a narrow foot, I like a VERY snug fit, I like a race liner which is thin and allows for ankle articulation. The zip fit for me is too constructing but I understand why the public loves it, because it’s a fairly easy way to get the fit we should get from our shell. Meaning it fits ones foot very well holding the foot very securely. Of course we want that from a boot and zip fit gives us that. My well fitted shell gives me that so I like a thin race liner so my foot isn’t too locked. Ok, that’s the zipfit which comes as the stock liner. I think that is a great plus!! The last in this boot is 100 which is too much volume for my narrow foot and desire for a very snug fit. I love the BOA system. Very nice
Hello! Thank you for the video! I just bought a pair of lange shadow after 2 boot fitters sugested me to buy 28.5 (my feet is 28.7) should I go for 29/29.5 or should I boot fit them?
Would love to see a review of your zipfits after some usage. Ive been debating whether or not to get them for 2 seasons. Id love to hear your opinion on "Are they worth the cost for an advanced recreational skier on budget?" (Im sure ill like them based on reviews, but are they worth 400$+ for most)
I have been skiing in Zipfit Gara LV for a while - a little over 400 days in the past few years. One great reason to get them is that you can transfer them from shells to shells. I had my boot fitter put more cork at the end of the last season. I know some people who have been wearing the same pairs for 600 days or more. The stock liners are usually gone after skiing 40 days for me. That is literally 40 days as I ski every day. So, that in itself, saves me a lot. Second, you can adjust the fullness by adding or taking out the movable cork in different areas - customizable. These liners are incredibly supportive also. I could never have found that in any stock liners after trying so many boots out there. I wear Atomic Rester TI - race boots. The combo is amazing.
Hi Deb, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on boots for young developmental level U10 racers as in full on race boots or would softer all mountain style boots be better if they do both? Thank you.
Awesome video! I have three suggestions: 1) Tie your hair back when you're at the grinder. 2) Wear a facemask. 3) Wear eye protection. And, have good ventilation in your gluing area.
I recently had a frustrating experience with my family's ski boots and I am seeking advice on how to improve the warpage as well as properly care for them in general, and after each skiing day. After we wasted money on brand new boots bought at a ski swap that werent refundable for my 14-year-old and 9-year-old, the new ones i got for them at my old trusted ski shop, after a day of skiing on vacation involving heating boots near a fireplace resulted in warping and damage to the plastics, creating large gaps and allowing water to seep inside. I was not happy because I knew better and it happened right in front of me when I wasn’t paying attention. What’s worse is they weren’t even wet inside according to our kids. Ugh🤦🏻♀️ Well, they get wet each time NOW….and it even is misshaped enough it has caused a couple other new issues but o was able to improve those after a couple hours of me manually trying to reshape them. That includes the inner boots for my daughters Langes too as it started to fold and crush in a couple spots even though they are the correct size - I think the plastic expanded and contracted on her inner boot too making the creases on the outside of the inner boot near ball of her foot. I have attempted various methods to reshape the boots, including using a boot dryer and applying pressure, but have not had success in fully correcting the damage / especially the gap at the overlapping area. I am now considering submerging the boot shells in hot water and using a rigid form to reshape them, but I am uncertain of this approach. I am in need of expert tips on how to properly care for ski boots, particularly in preventing damage from heat and ensuring longevity of the boots. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and advice you could provide in this regard.
für deinen fuß die passendeschale finden , dann einen zipfit innenschuh dazu+eine superfeet sohle dazu,wenns noch probleme gibt den bootfitter machen lassen, ergebnis absolute performance viel spass
You should usually have the same boot and have them matched to your different sets of skis. Unless they serve a different purpose and require different boots.
I have Atomic boots which fit my narrow and low profile feet, however, I loose both my big toe nails on my first day skiing of the season, took a year to grow both back; 2nd season, same thing, now 3rd season, one nail almost grown back, the other one is still pretty damaged. Perhaps the toe boxes are not high enough? I had them adjusted a couple of times already, do I need another boot? I apprecaite any advise.
Assuming your boot length is correct try trimming your toe nails as much as possible. Also if you ski a lot in the backseat position you will inevitably bang your toes repeatedly on the roof of the boot....improve your skiing stance.
Thank you @scuba453, boot length is correct and I had them trimmed back as far as I could. Good point about the stance, especially when on steeper and mogul runs. Appreciate your reply.
I lose my big toenails all the time. I was just thinking about this issue, and boot design, lying in bed this morning!!! You must have read my mind. I want my ankle snug fitting in my boot yet I want room for my toes. I have my boot fitter punch or grind the toe area of my boot for more room. Your issue is not unique. I would caution against getting a boot that is too big because of this toe issue. It can be an important nuance and boot fitting issue
Hi Deb, thanks for the reply. My boots are indeed snug, they 3D moulded to my feet during the initial fitting. I had the toes areas punched a couple of times due to discomfort, likely because they were new ( I assumed). They no longer cause pain, but bruises my 2 big toe nails every time.
@@lolo_persian Try some silicone big toe protector sleeves which will give you some extra cushioning. I think this is a common issue amongst experienced skiers who like skiing challenging terrain. I myself have a toe nail that got repeatedly bruised some 20 years ago with permanent damage to the nail bed.
It's hard to say whether boot fitting is an art, a science or a medical procedure. I lean towards medical procedure.... can I use my medical insurance for boot fitting?
Interesting, you're like the third person I heard recently whose opinion on footbeds is wanting room to articulate your feet. Tom Gellie, SIA Austria, and now you.
Great video, I don't think we have boot fitters here in Michigan, my friends bought the most expensive boots from the most expensive shops, and they sent them home with no adjustments or any kind or measurements, just foot size length and that's it, make the sale send the customer home.
How does one determine how stiff a boot is ideal? I recently changed from a Lange RD 130 plug to the 140 because the 130 seemed too soft. Since returning to Masters racing in 2017, I’ve dropped 40 lbs (now 178) and gotten much stronger, so my thinking was I need more stiffness to support my strength. What do you think?
It all has to do with your ability to drive the boot through your ankles. Are you able to assess this yourself? What are the issues in your skiing? Do you have a tendency to be a little back? Are you able to load up the ski tip at the top of the turn? Are you able to access a range of motion in your ankle? There are a lot of people out there who are fine skiers, but when I watch them, I can see zero ankle mobility. They are in a boot that is too stiff and they don’t know it. And yes, it is also possible to be in a boot that is too soft. I suggest finding a Ski pro or somebody who’s eye you very much respect for o give you an honest assessment.
To me it depends somewhat how your shell fits. For example top level ski racers don’t use them because their shell is masterfully fitted. They use a thinner race liner. I used the zipfit and I like it but for me I don’t feel the need for it. My boot is so snug and I get all the support I need from my shell I don’t need cork around my ankle. I think for general public it’s an important offering and consideration
Hey Deb... I'm still learning... I get to ski about a week each year since I don't live near snow. At what point do I go from renting boots to buying? I'm about a Level 5 skier.
You say to here air on the side of a softer boot over a stiffer one, why is that? It seems easier to soften a stiffer boot through grinding the v in the clog than make a soft boot stiffer if needed.
Great point. My point is when skiing error on the softer side for flexion. But your point is a very good one. When purchasing a boot you are correct. It is easier to soften a boot that is stiff than stiffen a boot that is soft.
Boot fitter experts like Amanda... please help! How do you create a neutral position in the boot for an extreme pronator, without turning it into a mini torture device???!!!! Our local boot fitter seems talented... but after 3 yrs still can't come up with a way to compensate for my son's significant pronation without putting his foot in an unnatural position (or angle ) in the boot that causes a lot of discomfort and pain This has supressed his interest in skiing and definitely limited his ability to progress - especially in steeps, moguls etc where more ankle angulation is required. Thanks!
From my experience as a pretty hefty pronator whose pronation caused a giant bunion on L foot and big on on R foot, and who struggled with ankle area fit throughout my teen years (before I learned bootfitting at a good shop), I would say this -- The goal obviously is comfort or else skiing is no fun for your son. Support wise without seeing his roll to flat and how far he rolls I can't say what difficulty your fitter is encountering. Usually pronation causes big medial malleolar protrusion, ankle bones on the inside stick way out as the foot rolls flat. Some form of accommodation for those ankle protrusions is necessary in addition to the underfoot arch support. Despite his tendency to pronate he still needs a flexible foot to have good snow feel so it's a tough balance on arch support unless the fitter is a very good one. And those folks are rare! Amanda in the video above is one of them, I can tell without ever working with her, just from what she observes and says in the video above.
@@seanoneil277 Thanks for the response. Your're right - without reasonable comfort skiing is not fun. The inital fitter missed this consideration did too much correction. Inappropriate.... orthepedic footbeds in shoes are corrective devices, but ski boots shouldnt be fitted for that reason. Neutral positioning should be a goal... over time... not right out of the shop. You're also right that the ankles can be painful when there's a lot of edging and ongoing pain under the foot. Hoping to find someone in Tahoe who has the chops!
@@batman50ish I hear Jim Schaffner is good in the Tahoe area but I don't know anyone personally there. I'm sure there are others besides Jim, and maybe Deb knows someone, maybe Amanda does. Performance and ex-racer skiers tend to be a small connected group, where wisdom for things like bootfitting are concerned. You just have to watch out for the talkers, and find the walkers. Hope you and your son find someone who helps make skiing fun because boots now feel good. Another name I recall from that region, Tahoe -- Wade Holliday. Primarily an instructor but he would be a good resource for bootfitting I'm sure. I've had many talks online with Wade in the past, he's pretty wise. Re ortho insoles -- in my youth I tried podiatrist-made insoles on two diferent occasions. Aside from their usefulness mostly in firm soled "street" shoes, they seemed best suited for long standing periods and not any kind of dynamic support. For a job, where I was on my feet almost all day but not running/cutting/pivoting as if in a sport, they worked fine. I never tried them in ski boots because they just would have required too much external stabilizing, buildup, etc to fit on the boot board or within the liner's footprint.
Hello there. I agree that footbeds can be too rigid and foot needs to articulate. Just a carbon fiber solea few mms thick works. Interesting about your being more upright. If you are in bumps a lot forward lean is needed. To wit: look at WC mogul skiers and I am not suggesting we need that type of lean since we are not at that level. But forward lean is important. And at high end ski instructing there is a bit of controversy; Austrians have old school style which is upright while N/As tend to have a more athletic stance i.e. forward lean.
Sorry for bothering you, but boot fitting is about having a comfortable boot (good liner) and having the ski run flat. Well most folks walk relatively well and their feet, ankles knees and hips are aligned. Having too much 'boot fitting' may make a reasonable fit worse. And, the issue might be that the skier is notoose, the hips are locked (yoga or Pilates is the cure and not unnecessary boot grinding). I do 1+ hour yoga, balancing a day. Boot fitting, as I read the comments, is not a panacea to all ski woes and shd be carefully considered since you may ruin a good pair of boots. And stiffness, about 130 to 140, is needed for responsiveness.
Upright is because of ski sidecut and ski design, you want to be in the position where the ski responds to your inputs at the tiniest level. The "sweet spot." Older skis (approx 2005 and earlier I'd say, maybe 2000 and earlier) on the whole expected forward lean, drive the tips with your entire COM, etc, because turns were more torqued than lateral. More snowplow than hockey skate. To understand mogul comp skiing you first must know that it's about zipperline speed and little else as primary factor, and it requires (at the higher levels) impeccable footwork, flexion, absorption timing. The skier does not work the entire sidecut in the way any SL, GS, SG, DH racer would. That would be far too slow compared to those who are doing the piston activity zipperline dance.
@@seanoneil277 actually, you have it backwards. With the shape of skis today, an athletic stance is the new normal in North America. You are about 5 years + behind in ski style. Take a look at the ski videos from the past two interskis, where the best skiers from around the globe showcase the most relevant ski styles. Moguls upright, performance parallel upright - take a look at the WC skiers who have to have instantaneous response. Empirical evidence contradicts your position
@@robertcushing9834 So you say, with immense confidence. I'm not "behind," you pretentious nonce. You haven't asked what I know, you haven't seen me ski. I would ask, where do you get YOUR information, you are pretending at wisdom that to me you do not have, so I'd like to know what is the source of your "wisdom" here. For example: where did I say an athletic stance is not applicable "today" or "within the last 5 years"? I did not. You assume I did, and your comment talks about your erroneous assumption -- using suspicious reasoning as well. I notice this a lot on the internet, in these same past 5 years. People think they can memorize a paragraph and now be an expert on the subject of that paragraph. Memorization is not wisdom. It's a parlor trick at best. So, congrats on your erroneous parlor trick, I guess? Now, back to my answer above, which you vainly and failingly tried to "correct." Did you read what I said about skis, or did you just try to pick at an imagined flaw in my statements, by running with an assumption regarding something I DID NOT say?
Do you have long tibias? Are you tall? What does Fischer say, as its internal flex number? As Amanda said, flex scales are good within a mfr only, not from mfr to mfr. So you'd be fairer to compare it to all of Fischer's race category boots, vs other mfrs' supposed equivalents.
Great video Deb! To clarify a couple points about lateral stance alignment, your new boots, unlike your plug boots, have removable tread pads (aka ‘outsoles’). So cant and leg length compensation shims can be sandwiched between these tread pads and the shell. This is way easier than planing the soles on plug boots and adding lifters to restore DIN height. Since you don’t need lateral correction the topic of lateral stance problems hasn’t gotten much if any attention in your videos. Maybe we can get together next time I’m in Steamboat. For more info, you can check out our boot fitter videos on lateral stance evaluation and correction. And Harry is a good customer of ours. - Will Hansen, Cantology.
Care to comment on how those of us who only get occasional ski trips in can do this? I'm outside of Atlanta, GA and tend to get 1 ski week a year. I don't GET to develop a relationship, I'm simply not regular enough. And just for a laugh, my current boots date to 2004. Yup, 20 years old (actually, in 2 weeks ~ got them Pres. weekend).... they're kind of a sloppy fit with no buckle adjustment left.
You ski a week a year? Time to get yourself new boots. Your next trip go to a reputable ski shop n the ski town of your trip and invest in a boot. That boot can last you another 15 years😉
I started fitting and selling boots not long after the transition to plastic shells. The amount of improvement in boots over those 45 years is almost unbelievable to me. Boots have come a very long way in that time, they fit anatomically closer by a long long way. Their flex is superb, their rebound excellent, lateral precision amazing. You could not pay me to ski on boots from the 1980s, 90s or 00s today, even if I felt sure my old boots would not crack, I would not want to ski them. They are inferior in every way. Though I would say -- San Marco AXS and AXR from the mid 1980s were well ahead of their time and for their time they most closely resemble good boots of the modern era. But even those boots, which I still have, are primitive. In flex. In hardware. In ease of entry.
Lol. You have no idea how lucky you are to get in and out of boots without excruciating pain. I always dread the end of the day boot removal. Worst part of every outing.
OMG this bootfitting lady needs to have her own TH-cam channel! Love it!
Yea!!!
I agree, I would subscribe to Amanda’s channel if she had one . But honestly having Deb do this one was fabulous.
Deb I had asked what style number or name was your boots in the fitting video. Also, what shoo is your boot fitter with. Thanks, Mike
Absolutely. I’d subscribe!
"Marry your boot, Date your skis",...............Advice a boot fitter gave me a few years ago, Great video Deb!
Ha!!!
One of the things I enjoy most about your videos is that I can come back and review them time and time again, and pick up new tips and points of interest each time. Your material is relevant, incredibly well thought out, and so very helpful! I refer friends and students to your material almost daily during the season. Thanks for being such an incredible asset and friend to our wonderful sport! You Rock!
Thank you!!!!!!!
Deb, the speed and ease you get into a boot is truly spectacular.
Ha!!
Thank you for this Deb! Boot fitting is not a one time visit, it is a trusted relationship you build over time. Pick a fitter with experience and passion for the nuances. I can attest the investment is worth it. As a new ski instructor 4 yrs ago, my Vt ski school and PSIA friends convinced me to see a local boot fitter. The fit improved my stance and changed my skiing in a very short time. I would not have passed the PSIA skiing assessments I & II without Bill Haight’s expertise!
A great demonstration on the ergonomics of proper boot fitting Deb. Amanda hit it on the point that individuality is key to finding the right fit; there is no such thing as a one design for all. When clients and the general public ask me about what equipment they should invest more in their ski attire, I tell them "Skis are skis, don't go short on boots". Lastly, finding an honest Boot tech is as valuable as an honest auto mechanic and as lifelong professional ski instructors its important to have a Boot tech to compliment your Ski tech. Looks like your feet are in good hands Deb.
Love it
From a lifetime of skiing, buying boots, fitting/selling boots, using boots -- very very few people who sell boots are knowledgeable about boot fit and how it plays into an individual skier's needs. Most shops just want a pair sold and out the door, relatively speaking. They'll offer to do follow up or initial fits but I find very few know what they're doing other than knowing how long to bake a liner, for example. Then they might put folds and creases in the liner and you wonder what happened to my sweet fit, my great liners. It can be a real ordeal if you don't have a very average foot, ankle, lower leg of the kind the boot's last was designed around.
After 7 yrs of bootfitting in my late teens and 20s, I find it very hard these days to let the sales person fumble through a boot fit, I am probably annoying because I tell them how they could improve their approach. Or -- I go to another shop and ask for the guy there who does know fitting and alignment. Then I know he's listening to me and what I need, vs me and the sales guy talking past each other.
kauf dir einen zipfit innenschuh hat sven coomer entwickelt absolut geiles produkt
@@seanoneil277
Amanda is one hell of a knowledgeable bootfitter. So many good points about how boots are different now because we don't torque and twist skis, and we can and should be more upright and able to stay centered. I learned bootfitting in the late 70s back when Warren Witherell's ideas were cooking. Back then footbeds were firm cork and most were trying to get anatomic neutrality vs giving the foot flexion and suspension. I had some boot work, alignment and footbeds done a decade ago by Brent Amsbury, he discussed the evoution in footbeds and made me some that were surprisingly flexible compared to my old old corkies and my newer firm/posted synthetics. I doubted their usefulness, out loud, to him. He said, "just ski them." Next day at lunch I tracked him down and thanked him profusely. Amazing to have suspension through my foot, so much better snow feel. I know why you love those footbeds, Deb!
Thanks for your words. Awesome
@craigjones7954 Thanks Craig. I learned at Ski Center in Wash DC, learned from Brian Eardley. Brian may be retired now. He's a pedorthist and he was early (relatively speaking) in emphasizing alignment. He'd done work with Witherell in his past.
I had cant wedges between skis and bindings back in the mid 80s for my alignment issues, we had the old CB Sports device that you stand on, with pivoting platforms. When I started back skiing in 2000 after almost 15 years off, I skied w/o the cants and boy did my knees suffer. 2 yrs later I went back to cants, this time on my boot soles, Bud Heishman did that pair. Then in 2011, Brent Amsbury did my current pair and made me a new footbed.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong You're welcome. Thank you for the great videos, this is the first I've seen where you talk depth on boots, but I've watched many. You're really good, Deb.
Thank you Sean!
@@amandabrotman9087 You're welcome. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Booster strap compliments very nicely a boot with some flex.
WOW. I would soooo love to get fitted by Amanda. She is incredibly knowledgeable, friendly, professional, curious, humble and confident!! I see why you have come back to her over the years Deb. Lord help me find a bootfitter like Amanda somewhere in my area! Thank you Amanda for sharing your time ans expertise !!❤
Deb, such a great video maybe one of your best. Info was so useful especially as I am going to a softer flex and more upright fit. My Masters race days are over and just want to enjoy fast cruising now. Thanks Deb. One of my bucket list items is to meet you on a chairlift and express how fantastic you are at reaching and teaching people.
Thank you David! Ya, it would be fun seeing you on a lift somewhere😉
It's nice to have a boot that provides suspension at speeds under 35 mph.
Being on a chairlift with Deb is one of the few times you will wish the lift time was longer. Truly inspirational.
@@johnparchman753 ah thank you
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Deb, did you ever know Jim Weiss of Wisdom MT, formerly of eastern OR? I used to share a chair with him and work on skiing with him every weekend in 2001 and 02. Every chair ride, constant nuggets of wisdom. I suspect I'd think the same if I rode the lift with you!
Super informative. One of the better videos about the boot fitting process I've seen.
Last year, for the first time for me, I went to buy the boots the proper way; go into a reputable shop and ask for a boot fitter's help with the whole process. I got a great pair of boots but I was "disappointed" 😅 because the guy told me there wasn't much, if anything, for him to correct in my case. He said it's very rare. I did feel a few pressure points eventually in the season so I'll go and ask to see if they can correct those.
I appreciate your comment about not needing the stiffest boot out there. An unfortunate part of the boot world is the quality of materials with the better liners in stiffer boots. I wish there were more options to get a good liner in the softer boots without needing to buy an aftermarket liner right away
Two options, somewhat at opposite ends of fit and feel, are ZipFit liners, and Intuition liners. ZipFit corkflo is firm and precise around the ankle and midfoot, best precise fit you'll find, but you have to put on the liners 1st then foot+liner into shell, which some people hate. Intuition is comfy and relatively precise, very warm. ZipFit can feel a bit cold to some people. Intuition, IMO, is plenty precise for recreational skiing.
@@seanoneil277 I just got my first pair of Intuition Liners to put into my old boots. I've never gone supermarket liner before. I do have a real issue with cold toes - frost bitten too many times in the tight tight boots of my youth. My newer boots I'm still happy with the stock liners.
@@chadridsdale9970 Cold toes are quite common, if you listened to Amanda & Deb talking about what warms your foot you will know to use a very thin sock despite that being counter-intuitive if you have cold toes/feet. The boot's synthetic shell and the boot's liner are pretty good insulators, better than your street/work shoes or boots. You don't need extra sock insulation. Just a good fit with no pinching of blood vessels that supply the forefoot. Which means, good fit no pinch over the instep. If you chose the proper size Intuition for your shell fit, you should be quite happy with the liners for warmth & comfort. Provided they are molded properly, that is.
You can order the atomic custom liner as wey
It’s not a bladder anymore. That was the seventies. It’s just a liner now.
One hundred percent agree. A good boot fitter is invaluable! Nothing is more important to skiing performance and comfort. And a set of full custom footbeds is worth every penny and will last decades.
And I just remembered two more VERY important things.
1) Be sure to adjust the upper cuff canting if your boots have that feature.
2) Learn the proper buckling sequence.
Thanks again, Deb.
A good boot fitter is a strange cat hard to find and when you do they don't stick around long. A great boot fitter is insane and enjoys inflicting the painful process on clients. th-cam.com/video/K8fuBiOwNmk/w-d-xo.html
Just listening you guys talking, I learned so much. Thanks for much for Deb and Amanda. Also, thanks for making the point that "you don't necessarily need a pair of stiff boots".
Thanks for the U10 ski boot advice.
Thank you
I wish we can have more experienced boot fitters in Midwest. They can make huge differences and well worth the money. 👍
From my experience with boot fitters I gather they are quite eccentric and the best ones I know are very reclusive and avoid promoting their business opting only for referrals from ski industry race reps sending only their top race clients to independent fitters and sending all others to more humane fitters with ski shops.
Deb, Kelly T's retired... I've had the pleasure to see a good bit of his work.
Thanks Mark. And I received your message to me. Thanks. I have always enjoyed Mission when there. I hope you all have an awesome winter.
This is one of the best boot fitting videos I have ever seen
I was wondering if you would make a video about getting up after you have fallen on the slopes . you do such a good job at auto describing for all people.
Thank you. I will consider your request. Have an awesome season
It is much easier to get up on steep slopes than on the flats. On flats I often recommend taking one or both skis off, get up, put your ski(s) back on. It is faster, safer than struggling if you don't have the strength and balance to use your body to erect a scaffold to hoist your butt up off the snow.
Amazing and thank you from France. I love your videos.
I wish you the best.
Big Respect for your great Carrier
40 years and you still look the same.
84 Sarajevo ❤
Thank you🙏
I like the new boot fitting location, away from the front of the store as before. Great to see Harry is doing well.
Hi Deb, Your videos are great. I have learned so much especially about boot fitting. Please do a video with details about new lace up boot liners, both stock and aftermarket boot liners. You have talked about your lace up liners in other videos and with older boots. I looked for the Tecnica boots you had with the lace up liner and could never find much about them. I have a hard right foot to fit and have spent hours tweaking the fit with regular liners. I have seen the aftermarket lace up liners and they seem like a great option for me. But my newer shells are stiffer and putting the lace up or aftermarket liners into newer boot shells can be hard. But with you fitting new boots and you seem to be getting lace up liners, it would be so great to have you go into the subject in detail. I missed you in Taos last year. Hopefully you come back. Thanks
this boot fitter rocks! boot fitting in tahoe was the funnest and most rewarding job ive had.
Good to see you again Deb, as always you look strong ,I can not wait to watch your new content this season...
Really helpful Deb and Amanda. Especially the insight about the forward lean of the boot. My instinct has long been that I would engage the front of my skis better if the boot forward lean angle was less. So much info out there says the opposite. Great to hear experienced people dispel common dogma.
I couldn’t agree more that investing in boot and good fit is a great investment- and I kept finding nuggets of interest throughout this video (long but worth it!)
Awesome!!! Glad you found it helpful
I loved Kelly as a boot fitter. He was a great mentor and I learned so much from him. Where is he???
Not sure these days
I've never met Kelly but the name has been prominent in boot fitting (performance and racing) for a good while now, I recall seeing Kelly mentioned a lot about 20 yrs ago.
My wife and I got boots from Kelly about 30 years ago when he had a shop called Flamingo Sports in Issaquah WA. Butch White recommended Kelly to us. I ended up with the hot pink Lange XM boots (softer cuff).
This is my favorite part when skiing getting the custom boots fitted and adjusted for your skis.
Great video, my liners in my old flexon boots finally gave up the ghost after all these years. Will take a look at the Fischer boots
Great video Deb. I was a boot fitter at Kirkwood in 1994,95
Amazing boot fitter. I need new boots but don't think I'll make it to Steamboat Springs this fall. I think I'll try Boot Doctors at Taos, just a few hours from my home in Albuquerque.
They do good work
Just got my new boots at Boot Doctors in Taos. Great experience, they are really good!
What a great video. It’s awesome to see a boot fitter who listens and speaks with knowledge unlike the boot bros who think being in constant pain builds character 😮. In 50 years of skiing I’ve never put on my boots and said “ahhh, this feels good!” I’m so jealous. Are there any Amandas in California?
I would hope so!!!!!
Yes! Go see Jim at Start Haus. He is a Masterfit instructor, and long time boot fitter with a wealth of knowledge. Not to mention, a very approachable, nice guy. Tell him I said hello :) ps, thank you for the compliment, it’s much appreciated.
Go talk to Zach at Footloose in Mammoth Lakes.
Super interesting video. I'm a size 23.5 so finding an appropriate flex boot in my size and men's cuff height is near impossible. I tried several boots, interesting thing is the Fischer points my foot almost 90 degrees to the outside while standing, so far Head and K2 don't do that, along with my old boots, foot points straight ahead, I love my boots to fit as close as possible out of box with minimal changes. Also I am old school from the old Tecnica TNT and Explosion era where flatter ramp angles were awesome, and taller boot cuffs were perfect since I'm tall. I want the Explosion to make a comeback. Great video, I think the boot manufacturers need to make some changes and go back to what worked. We need to have a conversation with them, they don't understand.
💪💪💪💪👍
Fischer started using that little anatomic splay (very mild "duck foot", or small angle deviation outward vs "pigeon toe" inward) around 2003 or 04 if I recall correctly. Lots of folks have said it makes things easier to access the big toe edge of the ski.
@@seanoneil277 perhaps if you have issues with alignment but being female it made the outside of my hips hurt and just completely messed up my natural stance, also it slowed the time to edge because i had to change all the angles that got forced out of place. Not a good thing for me at all.
@@CC-ys8qq Anatomically, women tend toward wider hips, creating a different angle between hip socket and ankle/foot/boot than most men have. This makes women, especially those with wider hips and a greater angle, sensitive to what happens down at the foot/ankle/boot. (And also at the knee, more vulnerable to knee injury unfortunately.) Even thin-hipped women will tend to have more of this angle than a wide-framed man.
Whether that duck-foot stance works for any skier can only be determined by use, and it seems for you it's an uncomfortable thing. Your anatomy may prefer neutral. Pigeon toe might be a happy place but it's bad for the ACL and the other knee ligaments, pre-stresses them in most cases from what I recall.
I recall Bob Barnes, author of The Encyclopedia of Skiing, mentioning that for him the new duck-foot stance was a great advantage. Sorry it didn't work well for you.
@@seanoneil277 Bob Barnes is male, totally different anatomy and muscular structure/strength, males can't relate to what it feels like to ski in a woman's body and vice versa. I think the goal is to have a boot fit right out of the box with minimal work, unfortunately for me the Fischer concept causes pain to my hips right off the bat, something a boot should not contribute to at all. Again totally different body structure men vs. women.
The insole can also make a difference on comfort. Good to know.
I might have had my Ah Ha moment last night skiing (ref the video you did with your bro regarding forward lean and driving your boots). Grabbed a set of race style boots (lace up liner, tight heel cap etc) for the first time (rather than rec style comfort boots) and was really able to feel myself power the ski through the turn with ankle flexion. The difference was like driving a sedan vs a sports car. Nothing wrong with either but the bio feedback from the performance boots trigger a much different connection with the ski. Thanks Deb and Amanda
Thanks!
Thanks David!!!!
I'm noticing that I prefer a less stiffer boot I went from a 120 to a 90 and it's so much more comfortable. I always thought ability corresponded with stiffness. This video proves that is not the case, thanks.
Great video. Just wondering why they don't extend the cushioning on the bladder a little further forward to accommodate pressure points around the metatarsal area.
Regarding those out of the box adjustments, I wouldn't have even been able to get my new boots on without some adjustments. Latch location and whatever the thing on the back of the cuff is where changed even before they went on my feet
I have also lost my toe nail sometimes.
My boot fitter have stretched the shell in this area quite a lot.
Kelly T 😂 I'm on 10 yrs with his ftbeds He's not doing boots as of last year Might still be doing footbeds though . he makes from scratch !
Love it!! Tell him hello and about the video😉
Nice information Deb. What boot is that exactly ? Thanks.....
Absolutely fabulous video and a treasure trove of information. Thank you.
Glad you appreciate it
Great video! I wish I had access to expertise like this in Western NY. But the best I can do for now is buy a snug fit heat moldable boot and liner so at least my feet are happier.
I'll also add that I'll be in TSV in January and this video inspired me to go to the Boot Doctors there. Seeing that custom footbeds can be moved from boot to boot now increases my comfort level of buying them 😁
Andy, your best bet to find a good fitter is to find a local ski hill that has a healthy race program, and ask the coaches who they use/recommend. You may have to travel a bit, depending on where in WNY you are. But people have been ski racing in NY for decades, the knowledge has to be there.
STIFF BOOTS SEEM TO HAVE HIGH BEST QUALITY LINERS; less stiff [eg 'lower end'] are not firmly supportive EG has "fuzzy faux fur for easier entry/exit, sloppier in the same size etc. Giving good boots more flex is an important mention. Hurray for bootfitters! Great video, thanks!
I love her!!!!😍😍😍😍I love your videos Deb, they are so genuine
Thank you
Hi Deb, what was the style of that boot you were having fitted ? Thanks ! Great video !!
The Fischer BOA RC4 MV Pro, 140 flex
Thanks for responding Deb. Great video ! Any recommendations in the North East on a boot fitter with this kind of knowledge ? Because many shops I've visited don't sure me with the questions I ask and the answers I get. Seems like most just want to sell a set of boots, go through the motions of " fitting" and send you on your way without paying after to detail such as you received during your fitting session.......
Where is this place? Would love to have a knowledgeable boot fitter like Amanda!
Ski and Bike Kare In Stramboat Springs Colorado
Deb/Amanda - do you know nay talented boot fitters in the Tahoe area? Would love to see Amanda about it, but just dont travel much to Colo. My son is an extreme pronator and efforts to correct his boot to achieve a neutral position has basically created two mini torture devices... even after 4-6 attempts to reduce the corrective additions to the boot (with a "specialty boot fitter" in Squaw Valley who shall remain nameless). Tons of pain underfoot and w/ ankles during more aggressive edging - esp w/ steeps, moguls etc. It's really hurt his interest in skiing and is preventing normal progression. Thanks so much for any help you can provide!
Deb this is a great video to review ahead of my next boot fitting. As fate would have it, I'm staying in Steamboat for the month of January. What is the name of the shop that are filming this video with Amanda.
Steamboat Ski and Bike Kare
I just wing it and don't worry about boots. My 5 pair ha ha. We are articulating now. Not too tight. I like that forward punch. Time to work on boots. 2 weeks till opening here. Boots are super important. Good boot is golden. I just keep using. Fischer is rocking it these days.
Deb, good ski boots is fundamental skiing. Can you tell me/us more about forward lean/ramp angle (13, 15 or other degrees) and ankle flex? For example you use boots flex 110 (quite stiff for woman recreational skiing). How does this relate to possibility ankle flex range? I am trying to understand these relationships (in relation to the correct position/ski stance)
I love working on my own boots. It’s costs me money at times because I have bought the wrong boots, and I’d never recommend anyone NOT to go to a boot fitter, but if you’re willing to but in the effort to learn all you can about the topic, you can fit you’re own boots quite well…granted I have two sole inserts, shin shims, and fitting foam at various locations on my liner which probably wouldn’t be needed if I’d gone to a boot fitter in the first place 😅
Thank you for the comment
No disrespect intended Deb, but what I was enjoying so much in my previous comment was how spot on your boot fitter is.
A great video, I’m buying new boots this season, this will help a lot.
Great
First let me say congratulations, a boot fitting video by someone who really does understand boot fitting and stance. I totally agree with you about your footbed and like your reply to Mikhail. The emphasis on foot support as if the foot doesn't need to pronate and supinate inside the boot is really poorly understood.
Left a question in the comment section of your other boot fitting video: Was asking if you could recommend a boot fitter here on the North East Coast of the US, Killington, Vermont / North East area of that would be as good as the young lady who fitted your boots ? Seems to be a challenge to find a boot fitter who has the knowledge and experience to want to do it correctly. Most that I have encountered just want to do a "generic" boot fit for size and make the sale which has frustrated me for years and it's also very costly for the average individual. Thank you for any suggestions, Mike.......
I don’t know of any sorry, Amanda would know. Call her at the Steamboat Ski and Bike Kare
Thanks Deb. I shot her a message on FB messenger. Thanks again, Mike.......
Awesome video Deb. Are these boots replacing the Fischer boots with the BOA system you had at the end of last season?
No they are not. I will have both
Very informative video! Deb, how long do the stock liners normally last for you in your boots? I was curious how you handle liner replacement after the stock liners pack out and if you had any plans to try Fischer's new Zipfit liners.
My stock liner in my plugs have always lasted till I needed a new boot. I will be using the zipfits this year in my Fischers
I am inspired. Where can I find a great boot fitter in Washington state?
Well how did the boots do out on the hill. I have had many boots that felt like a dream while fitting but were terrible after a few hours out on the hill.
I like it. As for the minutia, I have a narrow foot, I like a VERY snug fit, I like a race liner which is thin and allows for ankle articulation. The zip fit for me is too constructing but I understand why the public loves it, because it’s a fairly easy way to get the fit we should get from our shell. Meaning it fits ones foot very well holding the foot very securely. Of course we want that from a boot and zip fit gives us that. My well fitted shell gives me that so I like a thin race liner so my foot isn’t too locked. Ok, that’s the zipfit which comes as the stock liner. I think that is a great plus!! The last in this boot is 100 which is too much volume for my narrow foot and desire for a very snug fit. I love the BOA system. Very nice
Hello! Thank you for the video! I just bought a pair of lange shadow after 2 boot fitters sugested me to buy 28.5 (my feet is 28.7) should I go for 29/29.5 or should I boot fit them?
Would love to see a review of your zipfits after some usage. Ive been debating whether or not to get them for 2 seasons. Id love to hear your opinion on "Are they worth the cost for an advanced recreational skier on budget?" (Im sure ill like them based on reviews, but are they worth 400$+ for most)
Good idea👍
I have been skiing in Zipfit Gara LV for a while - a little over 400 days in the past few years. One great reason to get them is that you can transfer them from shells to shells. I had my boot fitter put more cork at the end of the last season. I know some people who have been wearing the same pairs for 600 days or more. The stock liners are usually gone after skiing 40 days for me. That is literally 40 days as I ski every day. So, that in itself, saves me a lot. Second, you can adjust the fullness by adding or taking out the movable cork in different areas - customizable. These liners are incredibly supportive also. I could never have found that in any stock liners after trying so many boots out there. I wear Atomic Rester TI - race boots. The combo is amazing.
Hi Deb, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on boots for young developmental level U10 racers as in full on race boots or would softer all mountain style boots be better if they do both? Thank you.
A shop that rents a quality 4 buckle boot is what the had the majority of my u10s use. We also softened the shell of many of those boots
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thank you!!
Awesome video! I have three suggestions: 1) Tie your hair back when you're at the grinder. 2) Wear a facemask. 3) Wear eye protection. And, have good ventilation in your gluing area.
I think your videos are great. Excellent explanations.
But I do want to know: are you ALWAYS this enthusiastic about everything? 🙂
Ha!!!! Hum, I guess if I choose to do it, choose to place myself there, then yes😉🤪💪
Do you have to mold ski boots like they do ice skates?
I recently had a frustrating experience with my family's ski boots and I am seeking advice on how to improve the warpage as well as properly care for them in general, and after each skiing day.
After we wasted money on brand new boots bought at a ski swap that werent refundable for my 14-year-old and 9-year-old, the new ones i got for them at my old trusted ski shop, after a day of skiing on vacation involving heating boots near a fireplace resulted in warping and damage to the plastics, creating large gaps and allowing water to seep inside. I was not happy because I knew better and it happened right in front of me when I wasn’t paying attention. What’s worse is they weren’t even wet inside according to our kids. Ugh🤦🏻♀️ Well, they get wet each time NOW….and it even is misshaped enough it has caused a couple other new issues but o was able to improve those after a couple hours of me manually trying to reshape them. That includes the inner boots for my daughters Langes too as it started to fold and crush in a couple spots even though they are the correct size - I think the plastic expanded and contracted on her inner boot too making the creases on the outside of the inner
boot near ball of her foot.
I have attempted various methods to reshape the boots, including using a boot dryer and applying pressure, but have not had success in fully correcting the damage / especially the gap at the overlapping area.
I am now considering submerging the boot shells in hot water and using a rigid form to reshape them, but I am uncertain of this approach.
I am in need of expert tips on how to properly care for ski boots, particularly in preventing damage from heat and ensuring longevity of the boots.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and advice you could provide in this regard.
für deinen fuß die passendeschale finden , dann einen zipfit innenschuh dazu+eine superfeet sohle dazu,wenns noch probleme gibt den bootfitter machen lassen, ergebnis absolute performance viel spass
Thank you for the comment
Awesome stuff Deb, cheers 😎
Can you mix and match boots with different skis? Or do you have to buy new boots every time you buy new skies?
You should usually have the same boot and have them matched to your different sets of skis. Unless they serve a different purpose and require different boots.
Love this. Great stuff. Great teaching.
I have Atomic boots which fit my narrow and low profile feet, however, I loose both my big toe nails on my first day skiing of the season, took a year to grow both back; 2nd season, same thing, now 3rd season, one nail almost grown back, the other one is still pretty damaged. Perhaps the toe boxes are not high enough? I had them adjusted a couple of times already, do I need another boot? I apprecaite any advise.
Assuming your boot length is correct try trimming your toe nails as much as possible. Also if you ski a lot in the backseat position you will inevitably bang your toes repeatedly on the roof of the boot....improve your skiing stance.
Thank you @scuba453, boot length is correct and I had them trimmed back as far as I could. Good point about the stance, especially when on steeper and mogul runs. Appreciate your reply.
I lose my big toenails all the time. I was just thinking about this issue, and boot design, lying in bed this morning!!! You must have read my mind. I want my ankle snug fitting in my boot yet I want room for my toes. I have my boot fitter punch or grind the toe area of my boot for more room. Your issue is not unique. I would caution against getting a boot that is too big because of this toe issue. It can be an important nuance and boot fitting issue
Hi Deb, thanks for the reply. My boots are indeed snug, they 3D moulded to my feet during the initial fitting. I had the toes areas punched a couple of times due to discomfort, likely because they were new ( I assumed). They no longer cause pain, but bruises my 2 big toe nails every time.
@@lolo_persian Try some silicone big toe protector sleeves which will give you some extra cushioning. I think this is a common issue amongst experienced skiers who like skiing challenging terrain. I myself have a toe nail that got repeatedly bruised some 20 years ago with permanent damage to the nail bed.
Is this the new Fischer RC pro4 that has the zip fit liner?
Yes
It's hard to say whether boot fitting is an art, a science or a medical procedure. I lean towards medical procedure.... can I use my medical insurance for boot fitting?
Ha! Love it
I like how “floppy” the toe is on the insoles, most are too stiff. What insoles are you using and who is the fitter?
I mention Kelly in n the video, he made the foot beds from Scratch😉
Thanks Deb, what about the old insoles? Wondering what they are? I find most insoles are to stiff in the toe area
@@patrickblain423 they are hand made by Kelly. No brand in particular
Ah okay, sorry I didn’t understand that. I’d like to purchase one of your Ski Strong hats, are they still for sale?
Interesting, you're like the third person I heard recently whose opinion on footbeds is wanting room to articulate your feet. Tom Gellie, SIA Austria, and now you.
Great video, I don't think we have boot fitters here in Michigan, my friends bought the most expensive boots from the most expensive shops, and they sent them home with no adjustments or any kind or measurements, just foot size length and that's it, make the sale send the customer home.
Hum, too bad
Wondering which location she is located. I am in Aspen. Would loooooooooove to go see her. Thanks
Ski and bike Kare in Steamboat
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong It seems there are two locations, 2250 Apres Ski Way and 442 Lincoln Ave. Which store is she located? Thanks, Deb!
How does one determine how stiff a boot is ideal? I recently changed from a Lange RD 130 plug to the 140 because the 130 seemed too soft. Since returning to Masters racing in 2017, I’ve dropped 40 lbs (now 178) and gotten much stronger, so my thinking was I need more stiffness to support my strength. What do you think?
It all has to do with your ability to drive the boot through your ankles. Are you able to assess this yourself? What are the issues in your skiing? Do you have a tendency to be a little back? Are you able to load up the ski tip at the top of the turn? Are you able to access a range of motion in your ankle? There are a lot of people out there who are fine skiers, but when I watch them, I can see zero ankle mobility. They are in a boot that is too stiff and they don’t know it. And yes, it is also possible to be in a boot that is too soft. I suggest finding a Ski pro or somebody who’s eye you very much respect for o give you an honest assessment.
Any toughts on getting a zip fit liner?
To me it depends somewhat how your shell fits. For example top level ski racers don’t use them because their shell is masterfully fitted. They use a thinner race liner. I used the zipfit and I like it but for me I don’t feel the need for it. My boot is so snug and I get all the support I need from my shell I don’t need cork around my ankle. I think for general public it’s an important offering and consideration
Hey Deb... I'm still learning... I get to ski about a week each year since I don't live near snow. At what point do I go from renting boots to buying? I'm about a Level 5 skier.
Now😉
Can you buy insoles separately
WOW! I wish I can find someone here in California like Amanda...
You say to here air on the side of a softer boot over a stiffer one, why is that?
It seems easier to soften a stiffer boot through grinding the v in the clog than make a soft boot stiffer if needed.
Great point. My point is when skiing error on the softer side for flexion. But your point is a very good one. When purchasing a boot you are correct. It is easier to soften a boot that is stiff than stiffen a boot that is soft.
Boot fitter experts like Amanda... please help! How do you create a neutral position in the boot for an extreme pronator, without turning it into a mini torture device???!!!! Our local boot fitter seems talented... but after 3 yrs still can't come up with a way to compensate for my son's significant pronation without putting his foot in an unnatural position (or angle ) in the boot that causes a lot of discomfort and pain This has supressed his interest in skiing and definitely limited his ability to progress - especially in steeps, moguls etc where more ankle angulation is required. Thanks!
From my experience as a pretty hefty pronator whose pronation caused a giant bunion on L foot and big on on R foot, and who struggled with ankle area fit throughout my teen years (before I learned bootfitting at a good shop), I would say this --
The goal obviously is comfort or else skiing is no fun for your son. Support wise without seeing his roll to flat and how far he rolls I can't say what difficulty your fitter is encountering. Usually pronation causes big medial malleolar protrusion, ankle bones on the inside stick way out as the foot rolls flat. Some form of accommodation for those ankle protrusions is necessary in addition to the underfoot arch support. Despite his tendency to pronate he still needs a flexible foot to have good snow feel so it's a tough balance on arch support unless the fitter is a very good one. And those folks are rare! Amanda in the video above is one of them, I can tell without ever working with her, just from what she observes and says in the video above.
@@seanoneil277 Thanks for the response. Your're right - without reasonable comfort skiing is not fun. The inital fitter missed this consideration did too much correction. Inappropriate.... orthepedic footbeds in shoes are corrective devices, but ski boots shouldnt be fitted for that reason. Neutral positioning should be a goal... over time... not right out of the shop. You're also right that the ankles can be painful when there's a lot of edging and ongoing pain under the foot. Hoping to find someone in Tahoe who has the chops!
@@batman50ish I hear Jim Schaffner is good in the Tahoe area but I don't know anyone personally there. I'm sure there are others besides Jim, and maybe Deb knows someone, maybe Amanda does. Performance and ex-racer skiers tend to be a small connected group, where wisdom for things like bootfitting are concerned. You just have to watch out for the talkers, and find the walkers.
Hope you and your son find someone who helps make skiing fun because boots now feel good.
Another name I recall from that region, Tahoe -- Wade Holliday. Primarily an instructor but he would be a good resource for bootfitting I'm sure. I've had many talks online with Wade in the past, he's pretty wise.
Re ortho insoles -- in my youth I tried podiatrist-made insoles on two diferent occasions. Aside from their usefulness mostly in firm soled "street" shoes, they seemed best suited for long standing periods and not any kind of dynamic support. For a job, where I was on my feet almost all day but not running/cutting/pivoting as if in a sport, they worked fine. I never tried them in ski boots because they just would have required too much external stabilizing, buildup, etc to fit on the boot board or within the liner's footprint.
@@seanoneil277 thanks so much for the suggestion!
@@batman50ish You're welcome, hope it's helped.
fantastic, thank you
"It's my dream that someone says I knew this lady that made me a boot insert...." Amanda needs to dream a bit bigger!! ;-) Great Vid!
Ha!!!
Hello there. I agree that footbeds can be too rigid and foot needs to articulate. Just a carbon fiber solea few mms thick works.
Interesting about your being more upright. If you are in bumps a lot forward lean is needed. To wit: look at WC mogul skiers and I am not suggesting we need that type of lean since we are not at that level. But forward lean is important. And at high end ski instructing there is a bit of controversy; Austrians have old school style which is upright while N/As tend to have a more athletic stance i.e. forward lean.
Thanks for the comment
Sorry for bothering you, but boot fitting is about having a comfortable boot (good liner) and having the ski run flat. Well most folks walk relatively well and their feet, ankles knees and hips are aligned. Having too much 'boot fitting' may make a reasonable fit worse. And, the issue might be that the skier is notoose, the hips are locked (yoga or Pilates is the cure and not unnecessary boot grinding). I do 1+ hour yoga, balancing a day. Boot fitting, as I read the comments, is not a panacea to all ski woes and shd be carefully considered since you may ruin a good pair of boots. And stiffness, about 130 to 140, is needed for responsiveness.
Upright is because of ski sidecut and ski design, you want to be in the position where the ski responds to your inputs at the tiniest level. The "sweet spot." Older skis (approx 2005 and earlier I'd say, maybe 2000 and earlier) on the whole expected forward lean, drive the tips with your entire COM, etc, because turns were more torqued than lateral. More snowplow than hockey skate.
To understand mogul comp skiing you first must know that it's about zipperline speed and little else as primary factor, and it requires (at the higher levels) impeccable footwork, flexion, absorption timing. The skier does not work the entire sidecut in the way any SL, GS, SG, DH racer would. That would be far too slow compared to those who are doing the piston activity zipperline dance.
@@seanoneil277 actually, you have it backwards. With the shape of skis today, an athletic stance is the new normal in North America. You are about 5 years + behind in ski style. Take a look at the ski videos from the past two interskis, where the best skiers from around the globe showcase the most relevant ski styles. Moguls upright, performance parallel upright - take a look at the WC skiers who have to have instantaneous response. Empirical evidence contradicts your position
@@robertcushing9834 So you say, with immense confidence. I'm not "behind," you pretentious nonce. You haven't asked what I know, you haven't seen me ski. I would ask, where do you get YOUR information, you are pretending at wisdom that to me you do not have, so I'd like to know what is the source of your "wisdom" here.
For example: where did I say an athletic stance is not applicable "today" or "within the last 5 years"?
I did not.
You assume I did, and your comment talks about your erroneous assumption -- using suspicious reasoning as well. I notice this a lot on the internet, in these same past 5 years. People think they can memorize a paragraph and now be an expert on the subject of that paragraph. Memorization is not wisdom. It's a parlor trick at best. So, congrats on your erroneous parlor trick, I guess?
Now, back to my answer above, which you vainly and failingly tried to "correct." Did you read what I said about skis, or did you just try to pick at an imagined flaw in my statements, by running with an assumption regarding something I DID NOT say?
I have found those to be way less stiff than their listed stiffness rating.
Do you have long tibias? Are you tall?
What does Fischer say, as its internal flex number? As Amanda said, flex scales are good within a mfr only, not from mfr to mfr. So you'd be fairer to compare it to all of Fischer's race category boots, vs other mfrs' supposed equivalents.
für kalte zehen gibts thermic skischuh heizung
Would love to have Amanda in my hometown. She is a first class boot fitter.
Love the Fuxi socks
Me too😉
Great video Deb! To clarify a couple points about lateral stance alignment, your new boots, unlike your plug boots, have removable tread pads (aka ‘outsoles’). So cant and leg length compensation shims can be sandwiched between these tread pads and the shell. This is way easier than planing the soles on plug boots and adding lifters to restore DIN height. Since you don’t need lateral correction the topic of lateral stance problems hasn’t gotten much if any attention in your videos. Maybe we can get together next time I’m in Steamboat. For more info, you can check out our boot fitter videos on lateral stance evaluation and correction. And Harry is a good customer of ours. - Will Hansen, Cantology.
Will, as someone who skis infinitely easier and better when aligned, I appreciate what you've done with Cantology. Great stuff.
This makes me think I should really try to understand how flexible my ankle is 🤔
Care to comment on how those of us who only get occasional ski trips in can do this? I'm outside of Atlanta, GA and tend to get 1 ski week a year. I don't GET to develop a relationship, I'm simply not regular enough.
And just for a laugh, my current boots date to 2004. Yup, 20 years old (actually, in 2 weeks ~ got them Pres. weekend).... they're kind of a sloppy fit with no buckle adjustment left.
You ski a week a year? Time to get yourself new boots. Your next trip go to a reputable ski shop n the ski town of your trip and invest in a boot. That boot can last you another 15 years😉
Got my boots fit with her last year 🎉
Why are ski boots priced too high?
A lot of technology packed into that footware😉
A lot of technology packed into that footware😉
Basic Economics 101 - supply < demand.
I started fitting and selling boots not long after the transition to plastic shells. The amount of improvement in boots over those 45 years is almost unbelievable to me. Boots have come a very long way in that time, they fit anatomically closer by a long long way. Their flex is superb, their rebound excellent, lateral precision amazing. You could not pay me to ski on boots from the 1980s, 90s or 00s today, even if I felt sure my old boots would not crack, I would not want to ski them. They are inferior in every way.
Though I would say -- San Marco AXS and AXR from the mid 1980s were well ahead of their time and for their time they most closely resemble good boots of the modern era. But even those boots, which I still have, are primitive. In flex. In hardware. In ease of entry.
Thankyou.
You are welcome
Lol. You have no idea how lucky you are to get in and out of boots without excruciating pain. I always dread the end of the day boot removal. Worst part of every outing.
good relationship perfect relationship