When I was working in the northern territory here in Australia. I suggested to the school. If they had electric buses and solar. I'm sure the government may come to the party with funding. I have to contact them directly to see if this has happened. Wish me luck. Keep smiling everyone 😁
I was borne in Canada and have lived in the USA for nearly three decades. The auto club, CAA then AAA, I have been a member of has had to help drivers with vehicles breaking down during the winter long BEFORE there were EVs around. Winter weather can be tough for any type of vehicle. If one is the type who run out of fuel when operating an ICE vehicle, one will probably also put oneself in situations where an EV will not operate optimally. It seems unreasonable to expect EVs by themselves to make people smarter. Again, ICE vehicles have always broken down at greater rates in harsh cold winters conditions but it doesn't make the front page of newspapers.
I'm no mathsoligist, but my city has the equivalent of ~4800 electric buses if compared to London's double decker buses. We also named our rubbish tip after John Cleese, Mt Cleese, because he said we were boring. We have exactly 42 urban electric buses and a new mountain.
My city school district is actually ahead on this one they have gone diesel free with their buses, they have some electric buses, and a lot of chargers for them so I wonder if they are going with this V2G system. They have not gone fully Electric they still have some buses that run on CNG. Electric buses make a lot of sense they go the same routes, they don't go fast and they do a lot of stopping so it sounds like a great situation for an EV. I live in California and gas prices are around $5.08 a gallon roughly $ 1.35 or so a liter. it was $5.08 for 87 octane when I filled up my company work truck. (I don't own a car I ride a bicycle or walk for getting around)
The last time I checked, Diesel cost about £1.70 per litre here; roughly £7.75 per gallon, or around $8.00 per U.S. gallon. Petrol prices are usually slightly lower nowadays. The last I bought, over 3 years ago, cost almost £1.90 per litre, and prices have been significantly higher than that. Salaries in Britain tend to be significantly lower than those in the States, so in effect, the high fuel prices hit us twice. Household electricity at night can be as low as about 7.5p per kWh, or around $0.10, and daytime rates for domestic supply can be between 3 and 4 times that price. Businesses can sometimes negotiate even lower tariff rates. So switching to electric propulsion should be a no-brainer for commercial vehicle owners.
I worked at a school district back in the 90s and early 2Ks. I saw that the monthly electric bill for just one of the 3 high schools there was a 6 figure sum. Thinking about the probably acres of roof space available in a larger district, I wonder if any are populating those with PVs.
🙋♂️THANKS ROBERT , I DROVE SCHOOL BUSES 🚌 IN THE EARLY 7Os gas powered…held 66 children…MY SISTER STILL DRIVES THEM ,🥹DIESEL STARTED BACK THEN , AND CONTINUES TODAY…THE FUMES MAKE ME SICK AS THE DRIVE BY THE HOUSE 🏠 EVERYDAY 😮💨🥹
It messes around with the oxidative process and causes inflammation. The inflammation is what causes the headache. It also makes every single illness which involves inflammation (the vast majority) worse, sometimes considerably and in more rare cases, catastrophically (death).
Presumably as they are plugged in the buses can also reach a certain temperature in the cabin in time to start their duties so that the driver does have to get in a bus that took hot or cold.
You should also watch the “now you know” episode called “the magic school bus “. It talks about the negative effect of diesel on kids learning ability, as well as the general health effects on society. This itself is a major reason to make this change.
Sadly London's double decker fleet hasn't yet reached the 2500 that Robbie said but has passed the 1000 mark this year out of the 8600 total. Slower than I'd like but TfL's finances are pretty crippled post-pandemic. First each bus garage needs to get a big enough grid connection then a whole route can be electrified from that garage in a step by step process as the oldest diesels can be retired. The first double decker route was launched in July 2019 with the no.43 which goes past me and was quickly followed by the no.134, the 37 units for route no.43 were built by ADL with a BYD lfp drivetrain and those for the no.134 were from Optare [now Wright buses]. Electrification of the smaller single decker fleet is more advanced. The latest route go electric was the no.306 in April'24 in west London with 3 to 4 dozen more routes converting in 2024. The smoothness and lack of dreadful vibrations from the diesel tick-over is a pleasure indeed.
@@backacheache For a long while the no.43 [a 24/7 route] was still running diesels at night while the EVs charged, but checking just now (midnight) it seems only 2 out of 9 running the route are Volvo diesels, the rest being the from the 2019 EV fleet. There's still quite a bit of tyre and mechanical noise and motor whine, not entirely silent but much better. 🙂
@@peteglass3496 In someways it reminds me of the switch to HD TV, it not so much about how good it is, but how second-class it makes what it replaced seem.
Just as a comparison... UK price of "gas" £1.56 a litre 3.78 litres in a US gallon (4.5 in a UK one) £1.56 * 3.8 = £5.89 a US gallon £1 GBP = $1.25 USD => $7.37 a gallon US average cost is $3.75 a gallon
@@Wilem35 Robert had said about the cost difference between the USA and UK being significant. The above was to explain if you can make the electric buses make sense in the USA with it's cheap fuel, we really should have the same in the UK given our much more expensive cost of fuel.
When you were discussing the buses being available when needed, the one thing you did not talk about was how often the diesel buses fail, either at the depot, or on the road. To hold the electric buses to a zero failure standard, while the diesel buses do not manage that standard, seems to be setting an unrealistic and expensive reliability standard.
Agreed, and most school districts have dedicated maintenance crews and ample time to work on them during each day. 90% of that will be unnecessary, and electric will still be more reliable.
Robert who makes the buses? What are the savings per vehicle? What specs do the buses have? Where are they made? Tour the factory? How long do they charge for? Health benefits? Telemetry and logistics? So many questions not asked or answered
If it helps, the electric buses here in London are made by BYD, are in both single-deck and double-deck formats and run on long routes all day long. Only issue is when waiting at a stop you can't hear them coming so I can't bury head in a book for fearing of them whizzing past.
In the United States south, I could definitely see these buses sitting around waiting for the next school year being used for grid storage during the peak summer heat. In the United States north, the same could be done for winter storms when schools will be closed anyways to help with grid demand for heating.
In Portsmouth we have taken delivery of 96 or 98 new fully EV busses - we now have people waiting at bus stops to ride the new buses - if the Everything Electric Show or Fully Charge teams what photos I know someone that was at the press event and taken lots of photos of them out working as well
I'm in Lincolnshire, and worked on buses for about 9 years, and travelled on every type of (Diesel-powered) bus in and around this county. Most, if not all, school buses here are put onto alternative routes in between ferrying school children to and from schools. The vehicles are on the road from before 07:00 on weekdays until evening; some of them being used until very late at night. They only stand down for statutory breaks, refuelling and servicing. Fully electric buses are still almost nonexistent here, and when they bring electricity into this neck of the woods (I'm being facetious; we're a little behind the times here!), I hope that as many buses as possible are replaced by electric ones. The longest routes by county buses involve round trips of about 90 miles. They go twice around those routes and are then refuelled during a driver's statutory break. National coaches obviously travel further, but even a run to London from here is less than 200 miles. So there's really no reason why they should not be replaced, except for the dim-wittedness of the bus and coach operators who still claim that electric vehicles are too slow and expensive. 🤦🏼♂🤷
Love the topic ❤ Yet many of the details are missing: cost of chargers, total cost of bus ownership vs diesel buses, where does the software run and who buys it??? Why can’t chargers just do this ? I’m confused ❤
Acres of rooftops, all connected to the existing national grid. EVs big battery is a natural fit. New grid capacity is stupendously expensive and millions of kms. 😮😮😮
Worth mention - Many - most - a tremendous number of North American School buses of all types are made in Quebec, Canada. Quebec is also the EV capital of North America.
It's such a nice future and a positive prospect! I'm curious, if all the school buses get switched to EVs, what would the total energy storage capable for all the areas combined? How much of a comparable benefit would it mean? How many standard Tesla Storage Systems would it replace for instance?
I look forward to these podcasts. This was interesting but you have already covered the huge potential of the yellow buses to power the US grids in previous However you didn’t cover how the bus depots get their power. Are they able to get upgraded grid connections or do they need their own wind/solar/storage systems?
This big idea makes a lot of sense. Exploring this a little further. My golf club has 15 golf carts. These have lithium batteries. Because the weather has been so wet they have not been used since October 2023 (because they would just sink in to the ground - and are still parked up 1st May 2024) it would for me, make sense for those batteries to be part of the energy system for the golf club, storing energy when it is cheap and being discharged when it is expensive. Maybe this is just a daft dream, but we already have the golf carts sitting in a shed going nowhere, and doing nothing for half a year.. This idea would apply to hundreds of golf clubs across the UK.
Great podcast, thanks! But even bigger thanks to the bus drivers comments pointing out that there are a number of practical advantages of electric vs diesel!
Robert, I think you need to find people researching cloning so they can create hundreds more of you to help make this world a better place. You or Kryten, either works ;-) You are doing an amazing job for this world of ours.
From: thelionelectric.com/documents/en/BrochureLionCang.pdf it has a 250 kw motor (335 HP) with a 210kwh battery it has a range of 155 miles. These are big vehicles. not really aerodynamic! (77 passengers - wow!)
The weight of the bus empty and then the weight of the bus full would change the efficiency a lot. It might only use 25-50% of that battery a day, but if is needed for other things during the day then that bus is ready to go. ...I assume.
Always thought it was a no-brainer to electrify big vehicles...especially with V2G capabilities. As I continue to drive electric, I'm more and more sensitive to pollution in traffic. I like to keep the cabin air recirculation on but it is challenging in winter due to fogging windows.
In rulal USA a lot of the bus. Drivers are allowed to drive. The bus's home, so how are they going to recharge the bus at their house? Just a thought. The Highlander.😊❤
As a German, where kids are entitled to free transport to school too but have to navigate public transport (10 year olds are expected to navigate one transfer without explicit supervision if necessary) it's difficult to imagine busses sitting idle for 20+ hours a day
It is mostly the same here in Australia; but they do run special services for school kids, using the ordinary bus fleet. I looked at US movies and TV and wondered about the economics of running that specialised fleet from a very early age.
@@fionafiona1146 Strangely, Australia has been moving ever closer to the US model for decades. The results don't support the move. BTW are US high schools as toxic as the TV and movies present? I really hope not. High School (and University) here was reasonably good, even if I was a poor student. 😪
@@John.0z I have only driven kids to those schools (as Au-Pair), adults would have needed explicit approval by a secretary to get past the security (at that location, Washington state)
@@fionafiona1146 To collect children from Australian schools you also need to meet security needs. But when I went to school, even the lower school, I caught a bus as far back as I can remember. I think my grandmother took me to and from school prior to me being able to cope by myself. In high school I varied between riding a bicycle, walking, catching the bus and (in the last year) getting an occasional lift with school friends.
Would that be for re-charging or this silly nonsense of v2g? You type like a schoolboy who has yet to pass his physics exam. One day you must tell us all about how your master plan works in the real world. I suspect governments right across the planet would dearly love to see how that works. In fact you might even get a Nobel Prize sponsored by Unseen University.
These people should partner with Tesla who have created end to end heavy vehicle infrastructure, charging and software. Yes, there are charging companies, yes there is infrastructure companies and yes there are vehicle companies with VTG. No-one else does it all though.
I think SAIC need to take a leaf out of Ellon's book, the infotainment software in my ZS EV is very poor. It never boots up the same, it's full of glitches and SAIC don't seem to be bothered about it.
US school buses, 🚌 going electric, need to be redesigned, by moving the wheel axles rearwards. Today, they have a huge rear overhang, which is LETHAL for a driver hitting them from behind. Their faces hit the bus, essentially! Lorries got big bars on their rear and sides for prevention, but if you put a bar on current school buses, their rear will scrape the ground on inclines! Hence, axles must be moved rearwards, like on any bus, and the buses should be put into operation during daytime, on roads, on routes.
School busses in the US closely follow a design that was finalized around 1965. The chassis and body design have been unchanged since then, except for some very minimal tweaks. For over 50 years it was literally an innovation-free zone. This tells us, I think, a little bit about the challenge we face in electrifying them. Thank goodness the ball is finally rolling. The fact that these busses have been so horrible (their suspension is a nightmare) and so poisonous - both toxic and carcinogenic - tells us a bit about how much people really care about future generations.
The cost of chargers is what? Just one diesel pump for hundreds of buses must be replaced by one charger per vehicle... right?? If you need V2G you must be connected every evening. Every bus. Plus the fire risk means they must be spaced properly. It’s a real challenge. So it’s not clear if it’s financially wise.
16:58 Did I fail to calculate or understand it correctly? If he said MWh and the word hour was cut conveniently, I got 12 kWh/month per home. That's 16.666... watts continuous? Am I this bad at grasping things? But it really seems like it doesn't matter what you say, it's all fluff. Watts or watt-hours, who cares right, people know what I mean, right? No they don't and they don't care.
6 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Diesel vehicle fires burn slowly, and are easy to escape in an orderly way, also often extinguished with a hand held fire extinguisher, but Lithium batteries burn intensely, fast directed like a blow torch, and can not be put out, needing to be left to burn out all the lithium metal fuel over much elapsed time. A diesel engine out front behind a firewall is positioned away from children by design and is fueled by tanks made of 1/4 plate steel. The diesel tanks are robust compared to Lithium battery cells pouch, or can type thin skins. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films placed directly under childrens seating, so safe a design. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design like in frame mounted batteries under cabin floor by locating the flammable battery fuel location there which causes a quicker spreading when under a flat surface exhausting flames upwards, and over like a blanket of smoke / flames most/all escape windows. Why place more intense fire closer to Children by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the floors flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen, by immature flammable E.V. battery technology design, placed under children, compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel tanks in cassed in thick steel tanks, and a diesel ICE engine placed out front, out of the seating cabin in front of a fire wall is a superior safety design, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ?
Please level your audio in all videos. The start and middle of this video have noticeably different volumes. I'd expect incompetence this from a new youtuber, not a large company like Everything Electric.
2 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is an impossible to extinguish Lithium Electric Battery Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire when the batteries reignite over, and over? How does a tow truck operator, when asked to by fire personnel get near enough to even attach to a large burning commercial vehicle when lithium batteries are on fire next to the school in an emergency to haul far enough away in one piece a large commercial truck load of Lithium batteries that wish to reignite again, and again ? Now that horrific scene will not disrupt classes, learning, or traumatize impressionable children to want one day to buy an Electric Vehicle.
1 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two?
I lived in Poland for 20 years and I never used bus to get to school and I had to walk 4km first grade school and 10km second grade so no its no all araound the world BS
1 to 5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two? 2 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is an impossible to extinguish Lithium Electric Battery Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire when the batteries reignite over, and over? How does a tow truck operator, when asked to by fire personnel get near enough to even attach to a large burning commercial vehicle when lithium batteries are on fire next to the school in an emergency to haul far enough away in one piece a large commercial truck load of Lithium batteries that wish to reignite again, and again ? Now that horrific scene will not disrupt classes, learning, or traumatize impressionable children to want one day to buy an Electric Vehicle. 3 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is a school bus fire handled by other bus drivers in a queue when many buses are staged close together in a one way direction, driving through a school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one bus starts on fire? The buses not wanting to burn up next then are being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position to get away quickly enough maneuvering a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children running in every direction? What could go wrong there? 4 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire through maybe just one escape door in time, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Doesn't aluminum burn thin steel melt while treading on? If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked simultaneously loading school bus when loading hundreds of children at school days end in a confined school front area. 5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor by chance goes horribly wrong in a limited exit situation possibly causing many children harm / death, and shown World wide on social media? How does that look to a skeptical EV buying public? Kinda as negatively, and as memorable as the Hindenburg Airship disaster reported live when burning then crashing to the ground with a reporter saying with empathic emotion ,"Oh the humanity of it all ! ". Today the pro Hydrogen gas supporters still have to spin what happened that May6th, 1937 so dramatically in a fireball to then crash, and burn explaining Hydrogens safety to us today while marketing the use of Hydrogen as a safe transportation fuel choice. Similarly a flaming School Bus with children on board certainly will help E.V. Transportation supporters gain maximum support for a yet to improve battery technology as much as it will need to someday be appropriately applied to a school bus vehicle with precious cargo on board. DUH !
If there's any EV that should have solar charging it's a school bus(...?) They sit idle for 6 hours per day, and that could be calculated in milage/day. They don't need high-powered motors, just enough torque for weight distribution. Schools are also emergency/evacuation centers, so using that energy in such circumstances makes sense. "You know who" produces the most EV buses in the world; BYD. Stop gassing children with diesel(!)
11 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Suggested is to get some hands-on expertise first, like I have, then comment. An electric school bus with a potentially flammable battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling in a densely packed way the most precious cargo known to humans,our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them.Fast burning, very hot, batteries can never catch fire. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the not real to you increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible all around when traveling on the road with our precious future (children). I say that no child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design concept implemented foolishly. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them should not lead to immediate adoption to a high passenger count limited exit vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board ! Consider the harder path to think logically before supporting, and advancing electrification of school buses with today's documented to be potentially flammable battery technology, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.
This is very frustrating!! There is so much FUD out there about Elon Musk and Tesla but if people would just get on board, Tesla could make those buses at the same or lower cost than a diesel. Stop attacking the one company that is actually striving for lower cost electric transportation.
😂😂😂 What utter tripe. You must explain why Tesla finds it necessary to lay off its workforce and reduce prices of its products just to stay in the game. Could it be that not every driver can be arsed to sit around waiting to recharge after having to queue for a charging point. You appear not to understand that most sensible people just want to refuel their car and drive off as quick as possible and get on with their lives with the minimum of fuss. Some of you battery huggers simply don't have a clue. Some, not all, of the guests Robert invites in for a chat are absolutely clueless. What on earth could anyone learn from them?
3 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is a school bus fire handled by other bus drivers in a queue when many buses are staged close together in a one way direction, driving through a school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one bus starts on fire? The buses not wanting to burn up next then are being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position to get away quickly enough maneuvering a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children running in every direction? What could go wrong there?
9 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking green current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch!
4 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire through maybe just one escape door in time, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Doesn't aluminum burn thin steel melt while treading on? If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked simultaneously loading school bus when loading hundreds of children at school days end in a confined school front area.
10 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Also, have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way, or in support of going along with the trendy Green agenda association, think of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then an electric school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The two vehicles are very different in design, and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is proposed when even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries under children for the sake of being in support of missguided trendy but to be on the more acceptable green thinking bandwagon. You go with the no expertise crowd, not me. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have.
8 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus who's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to not only heat up a 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening such a battery demanding scenario. Will that work well compared to a safe diesel bus design?
School buses in general is a dumb idea, put those busses in regular public transport in the same area that the school bus works in and give the students bus passes that way everybody in the district can enjoy working public transport for a change. If there are outlying cases 1 or 2 rounds in the morning and afternoon can be dedicated to student first or only to stop in places the line would not normally go. This would benefit workers and local businesses a lot. I rode the normal local transport with a bus pass from the county, if I was late I took the next one 20 minutes later both going to and from school, if I had sports in the pm I rode the bus to that and home after as well. The family car did not need to be driven at all for the Childrens school or related activities, that saves a fortune in gas and time (for my parents). With good public transport there simply are no need for a dedicated school bus, now that saves serious money and pollution.
This works where there is a good public transit system. Unfortunately about 90 or maybe 95% of kids in the US live in places that lack good public transit. The refusal by local, state and federal governments to fund good transit infrastructure is the biggest subsidy that the oil companies have received, and they pushed very hard to get it. Lack of public transit costs average working people a fortune every year, but is overlooked when discussing subsidies of fossil fuels.
@@davidmenasco5743 The cost for the city or who ever pays for the school busses would be virtually the same, the same busses and the same drivers on the same roads. (yes some increase in maintenance would be required) It´s not like the bus pass would be free for non school children so extra income would be made while still cheaper than driving your own car and all costs that come with that. Prior to the ev change over the sale of diesel and oils would still generate income for the oil industry so they have no reason to whine. As they shift to electric the payer would save up to 75% on fuel and maintenance and stop polluting/poisoning the children. I guess I got lucky being born in a social democracy like Sweden that made sure all have at least a minimum standard of living, sure things costs more an taxes aren´t low but we get a lot for that cost so it is well worth it in the long run.
5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor by chance goes horribly wrong in a limited exit situation possibly causing many children harm / death, and shown World wide on social media? How does that look to a skeptical EV buying public? Kinda as negatively, and as memorable as the Hindenburg Airship disaster reported live when burning then crashing to the ground with a reporter saying with empathic emotion ,"Oh the humanity of it all ! ". Today the pro Hydrogen gas supporters still have to spin what happened that May6th, 1937 so dramatically in a fireball to then crash, and burn explaining Hydrogens safety to us today while marketing the use of Hydrogen as a safe transportation fuel choice. Similarly a flaming School Bus with children on board certainly will help E.V. Transportation supporters gain maximum support for a yet to improve battery technology as much as it will need to someday be appropriately applied to a school bus vehicle with precious cargo on board. DUH !
Australia has 20million vehicles 20million 100kwh EV batteries is 2,000gWh of storage. DAILY. Fossil fueled generation today 25gW x 24hr is 600gWh daily if you are lucky. 400gWh avg. Most vehicles are parked 23hrs every day. Most vehicles drive building to building. Most vehicles drive building PARKING SPACE to building PARKING SPACE. Australia has 20million buildings with rooftop space for small solar PV, 33m2. = 660gWh daily. 20years to 100% EV. Battery is 'free'. $ 00.00 20years for nuclear electricity $BILLIONS.
Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two? How is a Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire? How is a school bus fire handled when many buses are staged close together inline on a one way school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one is on fire. The buses not wanting to burn up next then being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position with a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children? What could go wrong there? How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Aluminum burns thin steel melts. If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked school bus when loading at school days end in a confined school front area. What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor cause children harm ? Diesel vehicle fires burn slow and are easy to escape/extinguish, but Lithium batteries burn fast directed like a blow torch. Diesel engine out front behind a firewall fueled by tanks in 1/4 plate steel. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films under foot. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design when locating the flammable battery fuel location which causes a quicker spreading, and more intense fire by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen under children compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel, and an ICE engine placed in front of a fire wall, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ? Well clueless uninformed Greens, place your Children & GrandChildren on the lithium, and liquid electrolyte powered yellow school bus because it's trendy to be green.....all aboard ! Another real world scenario is when the wished for all electric Yellow Bus fleet is all tightly parked in a secured lot with flammable batteries charging overnight, and one bus catches fire spreading to another, maybe all buses in the secured lot, one after another bus. The fire department shows up to put out the flames. Oh, Water nope. How does a small vehicle fire blanket cover one bus or many? Nope, in hand is too small a blanket or buses parked too close together to throw the blanket up 11 feet to slow the fire spread. Next day and for months to follow until manufactured replacements arrive, there are not enough buses to take children to school county/town wide because of one multi school bus storage lot fire event. How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus wo's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to heat a up to 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening battery demanding scenario. Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch! Have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way or in support of not going along with the trendy Green agenda association of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then a school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The vehicles are very different in design , and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is found even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have. So all the 9 year old keyboard ID10T keyboard jockey types make comments, get some hands on expertise first then comment. An electric school bus with a battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling the most precious cargo known to humans. Our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible when on the road with our precious future ( children). No child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them lead to immediate adoption to a vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board. Think logically, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.
@@Stephen-Jones diesel if it ignites burns slow and up staying away from the children. Lithium battery flames are concentrated intense directed spewing molten metal. You need a reality check about the flame spread propagation time, and flame differences. Please put your children on an electric bus with a very energetic fuel source located directly under their seat instead of forward of a firewall. Don't forget to give them a kiss goodby. It maybe your last opportunity to do so. Stephen just have a think before attempting cancel culture supported by the experts with no expertise as was demonstrated by the person being interviewed in this video on the topic of electrifying a school bus as an safe, and acceptable design enhancement. Which most definently it is NOT. Oh....and I added even more "new materia"l as requested by you.
@@davidl.howser9707 aren't the fuel tanks under the floor on buses, a good thing up isn't where the passengers are ... Go look at evfiresafe they have an article about the few bus fires that have occurred.
@@oddjobsandrandomprojects Really....Ever specified commercial trucks as part of your resume ? Google...."Small Fire Erupts in Electric School Bus, Swift Action by Bishop Volunteer Fire Department Prevents Disaster" as predicted in so many words.
Hmm ... why not simply charge the batteries overnight to a suitable SOC to allow for the morning run and afternoon run, plus a safety reserve, say. This can he achieved by empirical experiment per route. Alternatively install a battery with less capacity. Cheaper all round. Even better why not simply admit batteries are a silly idea and use hydrogen powered buses, the likes of which we see being built in NI by the JCB guy. Sounds like this Gagan bloke has identified a problem which can be engineered out by intelligent design. Robert you're scraping the barrel in desperation to prove batteries are still useful. 😂😂😂 Wake up and smell the hydrogen.
@@stephenbrickwood1602 Really? Yet billions are being invested in hydrogen technology even as we type. If you're convinced you really know better than the boffins then you should write to the authorities and tell them where they're going wrong. There again it may be you simply haven't grasped there's a global aim to reduce the amount of green house gases in the atmosphere. Having all the ice caps, ice sheets and glaciers melting will be a lot more expensive than producing hydrogen. More research for you my lad, and no mistake.
The only real benefit Hydrogen has over BEV in the normal world is the speed of refuelling, and that benefit isn't really relevant for school busses who are sat around doing nothing for most of the day, and that benefit is gradually shrinking, as EV charging becomes faster. Hydrogen has very little infrastructure, is difficult to handle, has poor energy density compared to ICE fuels, very little of it is currently green, with around 95% of it coming from oil or gas, and that's not going to change in any meaningful way for probably another decade. Even JCB, which you mention, state hydrogen is for specific use cases only, such as working in remote locations, where weight is critical, or where the vehicles have little down time (i.e. you change the drivers and keep going, like mining shifts etc). Also JCB have been adopting batteries for many of their other machines, they wouldn't do that if they thought hydrogen was THE future.
@@TheBoothy666 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Virtually everything you typed was wrong or simply of historical "value'. Why not take each point you made and do the Google thing? See for yourself where you're going wrong. I can't be arsed to crib out what you'll read for yourself and certainly don't want to point to a "confirmation bias" website to prove my point. That you can do for yourself. However, I will drop a hint ref the EHB (European Hydrogen Backbone) and you can amuse yourself all afternoon. You'll find there's plenty to read. In fact there's a great deal to read. Another Top Tip ... why not research prior to posting and save your blushes? If only Robert would stop clutching at straws trying to prove batteries are "the future". In fact as well as looking up the EHB why not look up the very recent BS 63100, currently at advisory status, and read up on HMG's thoughts on both homebrew and professional domestic battery storage (aka "power wall"). There are some sparky sites on YT which will help you ref this recent BS. (For some sparkies it's come as a bit of a blow because there's quite a few livelihoods at stake.) Ref "area" battery farms then quite another matter altogether and would appear to be an excellent wheeze to sort out peak demand(s) on the grid ref domestic load during the ads. Think Dinorwic but without the mountain lake. Refers to UK only; what other countries get up to is their own mess to sort out.
6 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Diesel vehicle fires burn slowly, and are easy to escape in an orderly way, also often extinguished with a hand held fire extinguisher, but Lithium batteries burn intensely, fast directed like a blow torch, and can not be put out, needing to be left to burn out all the lithium metal fuel over much elapsed time. A diesel engine out front behind a firewall is positioned away from children by design and is fueled by tanks made of 1/4 plate steel. The diesel tanks are robust compared to Lithium battery cells pouch, or can type thin skins. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films placed directly under childrens seating, so safe a design. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design like in frame mounted batteries under cabin floor by locating the flammable battery fuel location there which causes a quicker spreading when under a flat surface exhausting flames upwards, and over like a blanket of smoke / flames most/all escape windows. Why place more intense fire closer to Children by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the floors flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen, by immature flammable E.V. battery technology design, placed under children, compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel tanks in cassed in thick steel tanks, and a diesel ICE engine placed out front, out of the seating cabin in front of a fire wall is a superior safety design, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ? 7 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Well clueless uninformed Greens, place your Children & GrandChildren on the lithium, and flammable hard to extinguish liquid electrolyte powered yellow school buses because it's trendy to be green, been so in with the cool environmental crowd.....all aboard ! Another real world scenario is when the wished for all electric Yellow Bus fleet is all tightly parked in a secured lot with flammable batteries charging overnight, and one bus catches fire spreading to another, maybe all buses in the secured lot, one after another bus. The fire department shows up to put out the flames, and is slowed to get in the locked storage yard. Oh where are the keys to start the buses not on fire yet, oh locked away in a building needing quick access. While we wait for access from the now home asleep bus company owner to get to the keys stored on hooks behind a commercial metal office front door the buses burn? Now spray water onto burning lithium battery buses from afar by spraying water over a fenced yard, hmm…nope. Or attack the flames with a small vehicle fire blanket to cover part of one bus or many? Nope. When a blanket is in hand, and is too small a blanket or buses parked too close together to throw the blanket up 11 feet to slow the fire spread. That will work to put out those hard to calm lithium metal flames. Now the next day and for months to follow until manufactured replacement buses arrive, there are not enough buses to take children to school county/town wide because of one multi school bus storage lot fire event. Now that is not an inconvenience to parents when needing to get to work on time. 8 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus who's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to not only heat up a 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening such a battery demanding scenario. Will that work well compared to a safe diesel bus design? 9 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking green current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch! 10 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Also, have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way, or in support of going along with the trendy Green agenda association, think of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then an electric school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The two vehicles are very different in design, and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is proposed when even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries under children for the sake of being in support of missguided trendy but to be on the more acceptable green thinking bandwagon. You go with the no expertise crowd, not me. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have. 11 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Suggested is to get some hands-on expertise first, like I have, then comment. An electric school bus with a potentially flammable battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling in a densely packed way the most precious cargo known to humans,our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them.Fast burning, very hot, batteries can never catch fire. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the not real to you increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible all around when traveling on the road with our precious future (children). I say that no child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design concept implemented foolishly. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them should not lead to immediate adoption to a high passenger count limited exit vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board ! Consider the harder path to think logically before supporting, and advancing electrification of school buses with today's documented to be potentially flammable battery technology, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.
Us electric school bus driver here…they are have many advantages from a practical perspective over diesel units
When I was working in the northern territory here in Australia. I suggested to the school. If they had electric buses and solar. I'm sure the government may come to the party with funding. I have to contact them directly to see if this has happened. Wish me luck. Keep smiling everyone 😁
I was borne in Canada and have lived in the USA for nearly three decades. The auto club, CAA then AAA, I have been a member of has had to help drivers with vehicles breaking down during the winter long BEFORE there were EVs around. Winter weather can be tough for any type of vehicle. If one is the type who run out of fuel when operating an ICE vehicle, one will probably also put oneself in situations where an EV will not operate optimally. It seems unreasonable to expect EVs by themselves to make people smarter. Again, ICE vehicles have always broken down at greater rates in harsh cold winters conditions but it doesn't make the front page of newspapers.
Every kid who struggles with asthma or sensitivity to smell is so relieved to have electric buses
I'm no mathsoligist, but my city has the equivalent of ~4800 electric buses if compared to London's double decker buses. We also named our rubbish tip after John Cleese, Mt Cleese, because he said we were boring. We have exactly 42 urban electric buses and a new mountain.
My city school district is actually ahead on this one they have gone diesel free with their buses, they have some electric buses, and a lot of chargers for them so I wonder if they are going with this V2G system.
They have not gone fully Electric they still have some buses that run on CNG.
Electric buses make a lot of sense they go the same routes, they don't go fast and they do a lot of stopping so it sounds like a great situation for an EV.
I live in California and gas prices are around $5.08 a gallon roughly $ 1.35 or so a liter. it was $5.08 for 87 octane when I filled up my company work truck. (I don't own a car I ride a bicycle or walk for getting around)
The last time I checked, Diesel cost about £1.70 per litre here; roughly £7.75 per gallon, or around $8.00 per U.S. gallon. Petrol prices are usually slightly lower nowadays. The last I bought, over 3 years ago, cost almost £1.90 per litre, and prices have been significantly higher than that. Salaries in Britain tend to be significantly lower than those in the States, so in effect, the high fuel prices hit us twice. Household electricity at night can be as low as about 7.5p per kWh, or around $0.10, and daytime rates for domestic supply can be between 3 and 4 times that price. Businesses can sometimes negotiate even lower tariff rates. So switching to electric propulsion should be a no-brainer for commercial vehicle owners.
I worked at a school district back in the 90s and early 2Ks. I saw that the monthly electric bill for just one of the 3 high schools there was a 6 figure sum. Thinking about the probably acres of roof space available in a larger district, I wonder if any are populating those with PVs.
🙋♂️THANKS ROBERT , I DROVE SCHOOL BUSES 🚌 IN THE EARLY 7Os gas powered…held 66 children…MY SISTER STILL DRIVES THEM ,🥹DIESEL STARTED BACK THEN , AND CONTINUES TODAY…THE FUMES MAKE ME SICK AS THE DRIVE BY THE HOUSE 🏠 EVERYDAY 😮💨🥹
Diesel exhaust gives me a headache.
It messes around with the oxidative process and causes inflammation.
The inflammation is what causes the headache.
It also makes every single illness which involves inflammation (the vast majority) worse, sometimes considerably and in more rare cases, catastrophically (death).
Presumably as they are plugged in the buses can also reach a certain temperature in the cabin in time to start their duties so that the driver does have to get in a bus that took hot or cold.
You should also watch the “now you know” episode called “the magic school bus “. It talks about the negative effect of diesel on kids learning ability, as well as the general health effects on society. This itself is a major reason to make this change.
😄🤗🤑Robert and Gagan, Good day from Lismore, NSW.🌏 We have an EV bus that runs from Lismore to Ballina, NSW. The rest are antiquated diesel buses.
V2G could come in handy to back up the school’s power.
True, though they would need a unit to disconnect the school from the grid whilst the batteries took over.
Yes in steelton hughspire. Gotten their first 6 electric school buses. Which charge by solar at the campus. Very very nice. Slowly they are coming. I
Sadly London's double decker fleet hasn't yet reached the 2500 that Robbie said but has passed the 1000 mark this year out of the 8600 total. Slower than I'd like but TfL's finances are pretty crippled post-pandemic. First each bus garage needs to get a big enough grid connection then a whole route can be electrified from that garage in a step by step process as the oldest diesels can be retired. The first double decker route was launched in July 2019 with the no.43 which goes past me and was quickly followed by the no.134, the 37 units for route no.43 were built by ADL with a BYD lfp drivetrain and those for the no.134 were from Optare [now Wright buses]. Electrification of the smaller single decker fleet is more advanced. The latest route go electric was the no.306 in April'24 in west London with 3 to 4 dozen more routes converting in 2024. The smoothness and lack of dreadful vibrations from the diesel tick-over is a pleasure indeed.
Plus for people on a route that runs 24*7 they don't have a noisy vehicle clattering by in the small hours of the morning
@@backacheache For a long while the no.43 [a 24/7 route] was still running diesels at night while the EVs charged, but checking just now (midnight) it seems only 2 out of 9 running the route are Volvo diesels, the rest being the from the 2019 EV fleet. There's still quite a bit of tyre and mechanical noise and motor whine, not entirely silent but much better. 🙂
@@peteglass3496 In someways it reminds me of the switch to HD TV, it not so much about how good it is, but how second-class it makes what it replaced seem.
Just as a comparison...
UK price of "gas"
£1.56 a litre
3.78 litres in a US gallon (4.5 in a UK one)
£1.56 * 3.8 = £5.89 a US gallon
£1 GBP = $1.25 USD
=> $7.37 a gallon
US average cost is $3.75 a gallon
Not sure why cost matters.
@@Wilem35 Robert had said about the cost difference between the USA and UK being significant. The above was to explain if you can make the electric buses make sense in the USA with it's cheap fuel, we really should have the same in the UK given our much more expensive cost of fuel.
When you were discussing the buses being available when needed, the one thing you did not talk about was how often the diesel buses fail, either at the depot, or on the road.
To hold the electric buses to a zero failure standard, while the diesel buses do not manage that standard, seems to be setting an unrealistic and expensive reliability standard.
Agreed, and most school districts have dedicated maintenance crews and ample time to work on them during each day. 90% of that will be unnecessary, and electric will still be more reliable.
Brilliant and great for the kids who have to use them. We need more stories like this and showing how maintenance costs have changed.
Robert who makes the buses? What are the savings per vehicle? What specs do the buses have? Where are they made? Tour the factory? How long do they charge for? Health benefits? Telemetry and logistics? So many questions not asked or answered
If it helps, the electric buses here in London are made by BYD, are in both single-deck and double-deck formats and run on long routes all day long. Only issue is when waiting at a stop you can't hear them coming so I can't bury head in a book for fearing of them whizzing past.
Most of the your questions were answered, you obviously did not watch all of the video.
Google is your friend.
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
So many reasons to electrify school buses. Happy to see it, hope this company sees extraordinary growth!
Thank you Robert love your shows.
In the United States south, I could definitely see these buses sitting around waiting for the next school year being used for grid storage during the peak summer heat. In the United States north, the same could be done for winter storms when schools will be closed anyways to help with grid demand for heating.
A bus is also a mobile power source. It can drive to where the energy is needed.
What about the impact of having Solar Panels on top of all the buses???
You might get a couple of kilowatts given the space on the bus roof so they'd be better placed on the roof of a school building
My street of 30 homes can generate 1 megawatt daily with 6.6kw rooftop solar PV each. 😊😊😊
In Portsmouth we have taken delivery of 96 or 98 new fully EV busses - we now have people waiting at bus stops to ride the new buses - if the Everything Electric Show or Fully Charge teams what photos I know someone that was at the press event and taken lots of photos of them out working as well
I'm in Lincolnshire, and worked on buses for about 9 years, and travelled on every type of (Diesel-powered) bus in and around this county. Most, if not all, school buses here are put onto alternative routes in between ferrying school children to and from schools. The vehicles are on the road from before 07:00 on weekdays until evening; some of them being used until very late at night. They only stand down for statutory breaks, refuelling and servicing. Fully electric buses are still almost nonexistent here, and when they bring electricity into this neck of the woods (I'm being facetious; we're a little behind the times here!), I hope that as many buses as possible are replaced by electric ones.
The longest routes by county buses involve round trips of about 90 miles. They go twice around those routes and are then refuelled during a driver's statutory break. National coaches obviously travel further, but even a run to London from here is less than 200 miles. So there's really no reason why they should not be replaced, except for the dim-wittedness of the bus and coach operators who still claim that electric vehicles are too slow and expensive. 🤦🏼♂🤷
Love the topic ❤ Yet many of the details are missing: cost of chargers, total cost of bus ownership vs diesel buses, where does the software run and who buys it??? Why can’t chargers just do this ? I’m confused ❤
Acres of rooftops, all connected to the existing national grid.
EVs big battery is a natural fit.
New grid capacity is stupendously expensive and millions of kms. 😮😮😮
Worth mention -
Many - most - a tremendous number of North American School buses of all types are made in Quebec, Canada.
Quebec is also the EV capital of North America.
It's such a nice future and a positive prospect! I'm curious, if all the school buses get switched to EVs, what would the total energy storage capable for all the areas combined? How much of a comparable benefit would it mean? How many standard Tesla Storage Systems would it replace for instance?
I look forward to these podcasts. This was interesting but you have already covered the huge potential of the yellow buses to power the US grids in previous However you didn’t cover how the bus depots get their power. Are they able to get upgraded grid connections or do they need their own wind/solar/storage systems?
This big idea makes a lot of sense. Exploring this a little further. My golf club has 15 golf carts. These have lithium batteries. Because the weather has been so wet they have not been used since October 2023 (because they would just sink in to the ground - and are still parked up 1st May 2024) it would for me, make sense for those batteries to be part of the energy system for the golf club, storing energy when it is cheap and being discharged when it is expensive. Maybe this is just a daft dream, but we already have the golf carts sitting in a shed going nowhere, and doing nothing for half a year.. This idea would apply to hundreds of golf clubs across the UK.
Thanks for giving us more material to use on the uneducated
Great podcast, thanks! But even bigger thanks to the bus drivers comments pointing out that there are a number of practical advantages of electric vs diesel!
Robert, I think you need to find people researching cloning so they can create hundreds more of you to help make this world a better place. You or Kryten, either works ;-) You are doing an amazing job for this world of ours.
A good step toward a renewable future! Kids do NOT deserve to breath in fumes from fossil fuel burners when going to-and-from school.
Brilliant!
For the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts...
The buses don't sit all-day not where I am anyway. It's a private company contracted to do the job so they use the buses as they wish during the day.
I wonder about wireless charging for large fleets.
The bus can dispense 200 kWh?? Why would a school bus need such a big battery pack?
From: thelionelectric.com/documents/en/BrochureLionCang.pdf
it has a 250 kw motor (335 HP)
with a 210kwh battery it has a range of 155 miles.
These are big vehicles. not really aerodynamic!
(77 passengers - wow!)
The weight of the bus empty and then the weight of the bus full would change the efficiency a lot. It might only use 25-50% of that battery a day, but if is needed for other things during the day then that bus is ready to go.
...I assume.
@@colinwiseman I would love to know at least two of the “other things” that school busses are used for.
We are not known as rip-off Britain for nothing.
Always thought it was a no-brainer to electrify big vehicles...especially with V2G capabilities.
As I continue to drive electric, I'm more and more sensitive to pollution in traffic. I like to keep the cabin air recirculation on but it is challenging in winter due to fogging windows.
In rulal USA a lot of the bus. Drivers are allowed to drive. The bus's home, so how are they going to recharge the bus at their house? Just a thought. The Highlander.😊❤
Build new electric buses with BYD in US should be cheaper? ( from Australia but what would I know)
School buses here in Canada are horrible noisy things. Electric power would be a huge advantage for noise and pollution.
As a German, where kids are entitled to free transport to school too but have to navigate public transport (10 year olds are expected to navigate one transfer without explicit supervision if necessary) it's difficult to imagine busses sitting idle for 20+ hours a day
It is mostly the same here in Australia; but they do run special services for school kids, using the ordinary bus fleet.
I looked at US movies and TV and wondered about the economics of running that specialised fleet from a very early age.
@@John.0z let's just say the USA is leading global education spending with below average results
@@fionafiona1146 Strangely, Australia has been moving ever closer to the US model for decades. The results don't support the move.
BTW are US high schools as toxic as the TV and movies present? I really hope not.
High School (and University) here was reasonably good, even if I was a poor student. 😪
@@John.0z
I have only driven kids to those schools (as Au-Pair), adults would have needed explicit approval by a secretary to get past the security (at that location, Washington state)
@@fionafiona1146 To collect children from Australian schools you also need to meet security needs.
But when I went to school, even the lower school, I caught a bus as far back as I can remember. I think my grandmother took me to and from school prior to me being able to cope by myself.
In high school I varied between riding a bicycle, walking, catching the bus and (in the last year) getting an occasional lift with school friends.
Brilliant
Sensible aims. Though I think all EVs should be plugged in whilst not driving. Be it at home, work or out in a carpark.
Would that be for re-charging or this silly nonsense of v2g?
You type like a schoolboy who has yet to pass his physics exam.
One day you must tell us all about how your master plan works in the real world.
I suspect governments right across the planet would dearly love to see how that works.
In fact you might even get a Nobel Prize sponsored by Unseen University.
@@t1n4444 Do you feel better for that?
UTILITY FACTOR.
Nuclear electricity carries on, and on about UTILITY FACTOR.
Kryten's head appears to have inspired Tesla's Cyber Truck design
Showing my age here, but whenever an American mentions the IRA I hear alarm bells.
These people should partner with Tesla who have created end to end heavy vehicle infrastructure, charging and software.
Yes, there are charging companies, yes there is infrastructure companies and yes there are vehicle companies with VTG.
No-one else does it all though.
I think SAIC need to take a leaf out of Ellon's book, the infotainment software in my ZS EV is very poor. It never boots up the same, it's full of glitches and SAIC don't seem to be bothered about it.
US school buses, 🚌 going electric, need to be redesigned, by moving the wheel axles rearwards.
Today, they have a huge rear overhang, which is LETHAL for a driver hitting them from behind. Their faces hit the bus, essentially!
Lorries got big bars on their rear and sides for prevention, but if you put a bar on current school buses, their rear will scrape the ground on inclines!
Hence, axles must be moved rearwards, like on any bus, and the buses should be put into operation during daytime, on roads, on routes.
School busses in the US closely follow a design that was finalized around 1965.
The chassis and body design have been unchanged since then, except for some very minimal tweaks. For over 50 years it was literally an innovation-free zone.
This tells us, I think, a little bit about the challenge we face in electrifying them. Thank goodness the ball is finally rolling.
The fact that these busses have been so horrible (their suspension is a nightmare) and so poisonous - both toxic and carcinogenic - tells us a bit about how much people really care about future generations.
unless you've got a Hummer... that comment just made my day 🙂
Love this show but the first 5 minutes is wasted time.
I couldn't watch. Hesitant half finished sentences. Cutting himself off continually. I felt like shouting " get to the point Robert"
Is OZ only private schools have there own buses paid for by the tax payer!
After watching this entire interview I still don't know what this interview was actually about.
The cost of chargers is what? Just one diesel pump for hundreds of buses must be replaced by one charger per vehicle... right?? If you need V2G you must be connected every evening. Every bus. Plus the fire risk means they must be spaced properly.
It’s a real challenge. So it’s not clear if it’s financially wise.
16:58 Did I fail to calculate or understand it correctly? If he said MWh and the word hour was cut conveniently, I got 12 kWh/month per home. That's 16.666... watts continuous? Am I this bad at grasping things?
But it really seems like it doesn't matter what you say, it's all fluff. Watts or watt-hours, who cares right, people know what I mean, right? No they don't and they don't care.
6 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Diesel vehicle fires burn slowly, and are easy to escape in an orderly way, also often extinguished with a hand held fire extinguisher, but Lithium batteries burn intensely, fast directed like a blow torch, and can not be put out, needing to be left to burn out all the lithium metal fuel over much elapsed time. A diesel engine out front behind a firewall is positioned away from children by design and is fueled by tanks made of 1/4 plate steel. The diesel tanks are robust compared to Lithium battery cells pouch, or can type thin skins. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films placed directly under childrens seating, so safe a design. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design like in frame mounted batteries under cabin floor by locating the flammable battery fuel location there which causes a quicker spreading when under a flat surface exhausting flames upwards, and over like a blanket of smoke / flames most/all escape windows. Why place more intense fire closer to Children by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the floors flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen, by immature flammable E.V. battery technology design, placed under children, compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel tanks in cassed in thick steel tanks, and a diesel ICE engine placed out front, out of the seating cabin in front of a fire wall is a superior safety design, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ?
Please level your audio in all videos. The start and middle of this video have noticeably different volumes. I'd expect incompetence this from a new youtuber, not a large company like Everything Electric.
:(
❤❤❤
2 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is an impossible to extinguish Lithium Electric Battery Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire when the batteries reignite over, and over? How does a tow truck operator, when asked to by fire personnel get near enough to even attach to a large burning commercial vehicle when lithium batteries are on fire next to the school in an emergency to haul far enough away in one piece a large commercial truck load of Lithium batteries that wish to reignite again, and again ? Now that horrific scene will not disrupt classes, learning, or traumatize impressionable children to want one day to buy an Electric Vehicle.
Skip the waffle: 6:00
1 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two?
Robert, your camera is jiggling up and down. Unwatchable.
Too much chatting before you get to the interesting part.
I lived in Poland for 20 years and I never used bus to get to school and I had to walk 4km first grade school and 10km second grade so no its no all araound the world BS
1 to 5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two?
2 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is an impossible to extinguish Lithium Electric Battery Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire when the batteries reignite over, and over? How does a tow truck operator, when asked to by fire personnel get near enough to even attach to a large burning commercial vehicle when lithium batteries are on fire next to the school in an emergency to haul far enough away in one piece a large commercial truck load of Lithium batteries that wish to reignite again, and again ? Now that horrific scene will not disrupt classes, learning, or traumatize impressionable children to want one day to buy an Electric Vehicle.
3 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is a school bus fire handled by other bus drivers in a queue when many buses are staged close together in a one way direction, driving through a school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one bus starts on fire? The buses not wanting to burn up next then are being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position to get away quickly enough maneuvering a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children running in every direction? What could go wrong there?
4 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire through maybe just one escape door in time, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Doesn't aluminum burn thin steel melt while treading on? If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked simultaneously loading school bus when loading hundreds of children at school days end in a confined school front area.
5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor by chance goes horribly wrong in a limited exit situation possibly causing many children harm / death, and shown World wide on social media? How does that look to a skeptical EV buying public? Kinda as negatively, and as memorable as the Hindenburg Airship disaster reported live when burning then crashing to the ground with a reporter saying with empathic emotion ,"Oh the humanity of it all ! ". Today the pro Hydrogen gas supporters still have to spin what happened that May6th, 1937 so dramatically in a fireball to then crash, and burn explaining Hydrogens safety to us today while marketing the use of Hydrogen as a safe transportation fuel choice. Similarly a flaming School Bus with children on board certainly will help E.V. Transportation supporters gain maximum support for a yet to improve battery technology as much as it will need to someday be appropriately applied to a school bus vehicle with precious cargo on board. DUH !
Selfplug-in V2G EVs parked 23hrs daily with 100mWh batteries will break nuclear grid electricity. 😊😊😊
If there's any EV that should have solar charging it's a school bus(...?) They sit idle for 6 hours per day, and that could be calculated in milage/day. They don't need high-powered motors, just enough torque for weight distribution. Schools are also emergency/evacuation centers, so using that energy in such circumstances makes sense. "You know who" produces the most EV buses in the world; BYD. Stop gassing children with diesel(!)
th-cam.com/video/8HpkDUWAKFM/w-d-xo.html - what do you think of these instances
11 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Suggested is to get some hands-on expertise first, like I have, then comment. An electric school bus with a potentially flammable battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling in a densely packed way the most precious cargo known to humans,our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them.Fast burning, very hot, batteries can never catch fire. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the not real to you increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible all around when traveling on the road with our precious future (children). I say that no child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design concept implemented foolishly. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them should not lead to immediate adoption to a high passenger count limited exit vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board ! Consider the harder path to think logically before supporting, and advancing electrification of school buses with today's documented to be potentially flammable battery technology, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.
This is very frustrating!! There is so much FUD out there about Elon Musk and Tesla but if people would just get on board, Tesla could make those buses at the same or lower cost than a diesel. Stop attacking the one company that is actually striving for lower cost electric transportation.
😂😂😂
What utter tripe.
You must explain why Tesla finds it necessary to lay off its workforce and reduce prices of its products just to stay in the game.
Could it be that not every driver can be arsed to sit around waiting to recharge after having to queue for a charging point.
You appear not to understand that most sensible people just want to refuel their car and drive off as quick as possible and get on with their lives with the minimum of fuss.
Some of you battery huggers simply don't have a clue.
Some, not all, of the guests Robert invites in for a chat are absolutely clueless.
What on earth could anyone learn from them?
@@oddjobsandrandomprojects
Percentages.
3 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How is a school bus fire handled by other bus drivers in a queue when many buses are staged close together in a one way direction, driving through a school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one bus starts on fire? The buses not wanting to burn up next then are being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position to get away quickly enough maneuvering a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children running in every direction? What could go wrong there?
9 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking green current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch!
4 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire through maybe just one escape door in time, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Doesn't aluminum burn thin steel melt while treading on? If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked simultaneously loading school bus when loading hundreds of children at school days end in a confined school front area.
10 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Also, have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way, or in support of going along with the trendy Green agenda association, think of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then an electric school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The two vehicles are very different in design, and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is proposed when even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries under children for the sake of being in support of missguided trendy but to be on the more acceptable green thinking bandwagon. You go with the no expertise crowd, not me. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have.
8 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus who's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to not only heat up a 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening such a battery demanding scenario. Will that work well compared to a safe diesel bus design?
School buses in general is a dumb idea, put those busses in regular public transport in the same area that the school bus works in and give the students bus passes that way everybody in the district can enjoy working public transport for a change. If there are outlying cases 1 or 2 rounds in the morning and afternoon can be dedicated to student first or only to stop in places the line would not normally go. This would benefit workers and local businesses a lot. I rode the normal local transport with a bus pass from the county, if I was late I took the next one 20 minutes later both going to and from school, if I had sports in the pm I rode the bus to that and home after as well. The family car did not need to be driven at all for the Childrens school or related activities, that saves a fortune in gas and time (for my parents). With good public transport there simply are no need for a dedicated school bus, now that saves serious money and pollution.
This works where there is a good public transit system.
Unfortunately about 90 or maybe 95% of kids in the US live in places that lack good public transit.
The refusal by local, state and federal governments to fund good transit infrastructure is the biggest subsidy that the oil companies have received, and they pushed very hard to get it.
Lack of public transit costs average working people a fortune every year, but is overlooked when discussing subsidies of fossil fuels.
@@davidmenasco5743 The cost for the city or who ever pays for the school busses would be virtually the same, the same busses and the same drivers on the same roads. (yes some increase in maintenance would be required) It´s not like the bus pass would be free for non school children so extra income would be made while still cheaper than driving your own car and all costs that come with that. Prior to the ev change over the sale of diesel and oils would still generate income for the oil industry so they have no reason to whine. As they shift to electric the payer would save up to 75% on fuel and maintenance and stop polluting/poisoning the children. I guess I got lucky being born in a social democracy like Sweden that made sure all have at least a minimum standard of living, sure things costs more an taxes aren´t low but we get a lot for that cost so it is well worth it in the long run.
5 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor by chance goes horribly wrong in a limited exit situation possibly causing many children harm / death, and shown World wide on social media? How does that look to a skeptical EV buying public? Kinda as negatively, and as memorable as the Hindenburg Airship disaster reported live when burning then crashing to the ground with a reporter saying with empathic emotion ,"Oh the humanity of it all ! ". Today the pro Hydrogen gas supporters still have to spin what happened that May6th, 1937 so dramatically in a fireball to then crash, and burn explaining Hydrogens safety to us today while marketing the use of Hydrogen as a safe transportation fuel choice. Similarly a flaming School Bus with children on board certainly will help E.V. Transportation supporters gain maximum support for a yet to improve battery technology as much as it will need to someday be appropriately applied to a school bus vehicle with precious cargo on board. DUH !
Australia has 20million vehicles
20million 100kwh EV batteries is 2,000gWh of storage.
DAILY.
Fossil fueled generation today
25gW x 24hr is 600gWh daily if you are lucky.
400gWh avg.
Most vehicles are parked 23hrs every day.
Most vehicles drive building to building.
Most vehicles drive building PARKING SPACE to building PARKING SPACE.
Australia has 20million buildings with rooftop space for small solar PV, 33m2.
= 660gWh daily.
20years to 100% EV. Battery is 'free'. $ 00.00
20years for nuclear electricity $BILLIONS.
Yes that is safe, to advance the use of rolling Crematoriums for Children to be placed into. How does a elderly retired person Bus Driver operate an electric disability platform with no electric power because the Bus Fire has started from shorted batteries now burning like a blow torch to be able to extract in a timely way a wheelchair bound disabled child or two? How is a Bus fire happening close to the school building not catching the school on fire? How is a school bus fire handled when many buses are staged close together inline on a one way school court with hundreds of children walking about around the school bus if one is on fire. The buses not wanting to burn up next then being forced to back out of a tight parallel parked position with a 38 foot / 11.6 meters long vehicle with side mirrors obscured by smoke in a swirl of panicked children? What could go wrong there? How do the up to 72 children on board just one bus quickley, orderly, without panic, escape a growing intensity fire, and not get burned when a battery bursts into flames under their feet ? Aluminum burns thin steel melts. If parked in a school pickup area I hope that the buse's hinged to swing out, emergency escape door is not blocked from opening by the very close front bumper of the following parked school bus when loading at school days end in a confined school front area. What happens when UTOPIA Electrification Dreams using flammable lithium, and flammable Electrolyte battery cells distributed all along, under the School Bus floor cause children harm ? Diesel vehicle fires burn slow and are easy to escape/extinguish, but Lithium batteries burn fast directed like a blow torch. Diesel engine out front behind a firewall fueled by tanks in 1/4 plate steel. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films under foot. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design when locating the flammable battery fuel location which causes a quicker spreading, and more intense fire by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen under children compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel, and an ICE engine placed in front of a fire wall, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ? Well clueless uninformed Greens, place your Children & GrandChildren on the lithium, and liquid electrolyte powered yellow school bus because it's trendy to be green.....all aboard ! Another real world scenario is when the wished for all electric Yellow Bus fleet is all tightly parked in a secured lot with flammable batteries charging overnight, and one bus catches fire spreading to another, maybe all buses in the secured lot, one after another bus. The fire department shows up to put out the flames. Oh, Water nope. How does a small vehicle fire blanket cover one bus or many? Nope, in hand is too small a blanket or buses parked too close together to throw the blanket up 11 feet to slow the fire spread. Next day and for months to follow until manufactured replacements arrive, there are not enough buses to take children to school county/town wide because of one multi school bus storage lot fire event. How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus wo's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to heat a up to 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening battery demanding scenario. Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch! Have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way or in support of not going along with the trendy Green agenda association of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then a school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The vehicles are very different in design , and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is found even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have. So all the 9 year old keyboard ID10T keyboard jockey types make comments, get some hands on expertise first then comment. An electric school bus with a battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling the most precious cargo known to humans. Our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible when on the road with our precious future ( children). No child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them lead to immediate adoption to a vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board. Think logically, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.
You need new material, good thing diesel bus fires are so uncommon... /s
@@Stephen-Jones😂
@@Stephen-Jones diesel if it ignites burns slow and up staying away from the children. Lithium battery flames are concentrated intense directed spewing molten metal. You need a reality check about the flame spread propagation time, and flame differences. Please put your children on an electric bus with a very energetic fuel source located directly under their seat instead of forward of a firewall. Don't forget to give them a kiss goodby. It maybe your last opportunity to do so. Stephen just have a think before attempting cancel culture supported by the experts with no expertise as was demonstrated by the person being interviewed in this video on the topic of electrifying a school bus as an safe, and acceptable design enhancement. Which most definently it is NOT. Oh....and I added even more "new materia"l as requested by you.
@@davidl.howser9707 aren't the fuel tanks under the floor on buses, a good thing up isn't where the passengers are ...
Go look at evfiresafe they have an article about the few bus fires that have occurred.
@@oddjobsandrandomprojects Really....Ever specified commercial trucks as part of your resume ? Google...."Small Fire Erupts in Electric School Bus, Swift Action by Bishop Volunteer Fire Department Prevents Disaster" as predicted in so many words.
Hmm ... why not simply charge the batteries overnight to a suitable SOC to allow for the morning run and afternoon run, plus a safety reserve, say.
This can he achieved by empirical experiment per route.
Alternatively install a battery with less capacity. Cheaper all round.
Even better why not simply admit batteries are a silly idea and use hydrogen powered buses, the likes of which we see being built in NI by the JCB guy.
Sounds like this Gagan bloke has identified a problem which can be engineered out by intelligent design.
Robert you're scraping the barrel in desperation to prove batteries are still useful.
😂😂😂
Wake up and smell the hydrogen.
Have you done the maths ? 😮😮
Hydrogen is insane.
@@stephenbrickwood1602
Really? Yet billions are being invested in hydrogen technology even as we type.
If you're convinced you really know better than the boffins then you should write to the authorities and tell them where they're going wrong.
There again it may be you simply haven't grasped there's a global aim to reduce the amount of green house gases in the atmosphere.
Having all the ice caps, ice sheets and glaciers melting will be a lot more expensive than producing hydrogen.
More research for you my lad, and no mistake.
The only real benefit Hydrogen has over BEV in the normal world is the speed of refuelling, and that benefit isn't really relevant for school busses who are sat around doing nothing for most of the day, and that benefit is gradually shrinking, as EV charging becomes faster.
Hydrogen has very little infrastructure, is difficult to handle, has poor energy density compared to ICE fuels, very little of it is currently green, with around 95% of it coming from oil or gas, and that's not going to change in any meaningful way for probably another decade.
Even JCB, which you mention, state hydrogen is for specific use cases only, such as working in remote locations, where weight is critical, or where the vehicles have little down time (i.e. you change the drivers and keep going, like mining shifts etc). Also JCB have been adopting batteries for many of their other machines, they wouldn't do that if they thought hydrogen was THE future.
@@TheBoothy666 well said.
It is annoying how misleading people can be.
@@TheBoothy666
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Virtually everything you typed was wrong or simply of historical "value'.
Why not take each point you made and do the Google thing?
See for yourself where you're going wrong.
I can't be arsed to crib out what you'll read for yourself and certainly don't want to point to a "confirmation bias" website to prove my point. That you can do for yourself.
However, I will drop a hint ref the EHB (European Hydrogen Backbone) and you can amuse yourself all afternoon.
You'll find there's plenty to read. In fact there's a great deal to read.
Another Top Tip ... why not research prior to posting and save your blushes?
If only Robert would stop clutching at straws trying to prove batteries are "the future".
In fact as well as looking up the EHB why not look up the very recent BS 63100, currently at advisory status, and read up on HMG's thoughts on both homebrew and professional domestic battery storage (aka "power wall").
There are some sparky sites on YT which will help you ref this recent BS.
(For some sparkies it's come as a bit of a blow because there's quite a few livelihoods at stake.)
Ref "area" battery farms then quite another matter altogether and would appear to be an excellent wheeze to sort out peak demand(s) on the grid ref domestic load during the ads.
Think Dinorwic but without the mountain lake.
Refers to UK only; what other countries get up to is their own mess to sort out.
6 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Diesel vehicle fires burn slowly, and are easy to escape in an orderly way, also often extinguished with a hand held fire extinguisher, but Lithium batteries burn intensely, fast directed like a blow torch, and can not be put out, needing to be left to burn out all the lithium metal fuel over much elapsed time. A diesel engine out front behind a firewall is positioned away from children by design and is fueled by tanks made of 1/4 plate steel. The diesel tanks are robust compared to Lithium battery cells pouch, or can type thin skins. Lithium blade batteries wrapped in thin films placed directly under childrens seating, so safe a design. Why increase the chance of injury if a fire does break out by a poor design like in frame mounted batteries under cabin floor by locating the flammable battery fuel location there which causes a quicker spreading when under a flat surface exhausting flames upwards, and over like a blanket of smoke / flames most/all escape windows. Why place more intense fire closer to Children by moving the fuel source underneath the children who have to go through the floors flames to escape a bus fire? What could go wrong with inward mounted batteries between the frame rails? Not to worry because encouraging bad stuff to happen, by immature flammable E.V. battery technology design, placed under children, compared to forward mounted slow to ignite diesel, slow to burn diesel tanks in cassed in thick steel tanks, and a diesel ICE engine placed out front, out of the seating cabin in front of a fire wall is a superior safety design, OR go with by poor design, placing children in potentially unsafe situations with flammable electrolyte type lithium batteries under foot. Hmmmm….which to choose ?
7 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Well clueless uninformed Greens, place your Children & GrandChildren on the lithium, and flammable hard to extinguish liquid electrolyte powered yellow school buses because it's trendy to be green, been so in with the cool environmental crowd.....all aboard ! Another real world scenario is when the wished for all electric Yellow Bus fleet is all tightly parked in a secured lot with flammable batteries charging overnight, and one bus catches fire spreading to another, maybe all buses in the secured lot, one after another bus. The fire department shows up to put out the flames, and is slowed to get in the locked storage yard. Oh where are the keys to start the buses not on fire yet, oh locked away in a building needing quick access. While we wait for access from the now home asleep bus company owner to get to the keys stored on hooks behind a commercial metal office front door the buses burn? Now spray water onto burning lithium battery buses from afar by spraying water over a fenced yard, hmm…nope. Or attack the flames with a small vehicle fire blanket to cover part of one bus or many? Nope. When a blanket is in hand, and is too small a blanket or buses parked too close together to throw the blanket up 11 feet to slow the fire spread. That will work to put out those hard to calm lithium metal flames. Now the next day and for months to follow until manufactured replacement buses arrive, there are not enough buses to take children to school county/town wide because of one multi school bus storage lot fire event. Now that is not an inconvenience to parents when needing to get to work on time.
8 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : How about up North in the States when operating an Electric School bus who's range when designed with temperature sensitive electric lithium batteries do not hold as much charge but are asked to not only heat up a 72 passenger cavernous volume of space to keep children warm while in a fast paced start stop hard accelerating to stay on time to get to school at the time of opening such a battery demanding scenario. Will that work well compared to a safe diesel bus design?
9 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Greens, find the one gram of logic in you, then grab hold of it by plucking that tiny logic amount from within a swirling pond of emotional bent illogical thinking green current, to then think first of what happens when Electrification is applied to a school bus vehicle with today's flammable battery technology. Oh before commenting about this post here...Google bus fire in France. Enjoy watching the TH-cam Video there of what happens when lithium batteries are placed on top of the bus. Horrifying to watch!
10 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Also, have you ever had a Commercial Driver's License with passenger credentials ? I have. Before replying in a worthy way, or in support of going along with the trendy Green agenda association, think of, if an electric car is a good idea, certainly then an electric school bus must be an even better idea of a non polluting transportation method. The two vehicles are very different in design, and purpose. Do you have the expertise to know a good from a bad commercial vehicle design as is proposed when even thinking to place an liquid electrolyte Lithium powered bus with inboard batteries under children for the sake of being in support of missguided trendy but to be on the more acceptable green thinking bandwagon. You go with the no expertise crowd, not me. Have you ever specified every single nut bolt on a commercial vehicle, and components type & location to go into building many new purchases of commercial vehicles? I have. Have you ever maintained a large commercial diesel vehicle fleet ? I have.
11 of 11 Reasons NOT to Electrify a School Bus : Suggested is to get some hands-on expertise first, like I have, then comment. An electric school bus with a potentially flammable battery technology that can catch fire in such an intense fast spreading, directed flame, hard to extinguish, way, and locating the fuel source under the children is a foolish and, dangerous idea to be advancing in so many ways leading to increased chance, compared to diesel, that something bad will happen when hauling in a densely packed way the most precious cargo known to humans,our young children ! Greens breathe easy that all will be alright when putting your child or grandchild on a bus with batteries warming away right underneath them.Fast burning, very hot, batteries can never catch fire. What could go wrong with an electric school bus design like that. Nothing of course. So take the not real to you increased risk as compared to low flammable, low flame spread outward mounted diesel school bus propulsion when operated in the real world with so many possible variables in play to safely navigate flawlessly when human error is possible all around when traveling on the road with our precious future (children). I say that no child should die in the dawn of life because of a possible thermal runaway flammable battery technology mixed with a flawed battery location under foot school bus vehicle design concept implemented foolishly. Not every technology is to be applied to every vehicle with a different purpose. Evolving electrification of a passenger vehicle using flammable electrolytes where passengers are few, and can quickly exit by a door next to them should not lead to immediate adoption to a high passenger count limited exit vehicle with two doors to exit from with up to 72 children on board ! Consider the harder path to think logically before supporting, and advancing electrification of school buses with today's documented to be potentially flammable battery technology, please. “Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason so few engage in it.” - Henry Ford.