I recently purchased a second Elac 10” Per your previous subwoofer showdown. As it’s for my two channel stereo, I’m enjoying it. They don’t have low-end extension, but the type of music I typically listen to doesn’t require it. Thanks for another great showdown.
"the type of music I typically listen to doesn’t require it" that's what you think! even some lute recordings have that serious church air pressure you only get with serious subbass extension! regardless I've no doubt you've an enjoyable setup!
I have a pair of the Dayton 12's. I used a coupon code I searched up online and one was an open box. I was able to get them both for $230 shipped, back when they were $150 each retail. For that price, I can't complain. They shake the walls when I turn up the system and they do pretty ok with movies. They do not have enough articulation to sound good with much music, other than techno. When I bought them, I was just running some Dayton T-652 Air towers with an SMSL AD18. They were well suited to that system. I later upgraded to JBL Studio 580's, which I highly recommend when they are on sale. Most recently I swapped out the AD18 for an Emotiva TA-1. By now the subs are really the weak link. If I'm just listening to music, I might even be better off unplugging them and setting the speakers to full range, depending on the genre. That said, I mostly use them for movies and they do work well enough up to 90hz to allow the speakers to benefit from the 90hz high pass. And they do benefit from that. So I would consider the Daytons definitely better than nothing in a home theater, perhaps even a solid choice for a budget system. But they will not grow with you as you make upgrades.
The amp on my Def Tech ProSub 1000 finally gave out after 15 years. I replaced it with a Jamo C912 and have been happy with it for the money. Thanks for the great review.
One interesting discussion point, and something I highly recommend doing, is that you can buy a DSP, put it in front of the subwoofer, and you can really make these linear. You can get rid of the bloated upper bass, and it these 'cheap' subs really do shine. For $100 for a minidsp, it's hard to go wrong and still keeps you under the next tier of subwoofer in costs while offering some nice quality gains. So if you already have a DSP, and a Calbrated Mic (about $200 total) that you used for your mains, then you can get a lot of mileage out of these cheap subs, especially if you want to buy multiple and take advantage of multi-sub placement.
For music sure, for home theatre where a lot of subbass is need though, this sort of sub won‘t cut it. The Infinity is the most powerful here, yet you‘d need 8 of them to match the 20Hz output of a single Monoprice 12“ THX Ultra and ~22 to match one 16“ Monoprice 16“.
Thanks for what you do, Really enjoy your videos. I Have 2 of the Klipsch R-12SWI love them work great zero issues (they are not the ones available at Costco! But not quite the SPL's) they have built in wireless that works great and Detachable power cable. I dont use the wireless in my new HT room, mostly because of where I have them in the front corners now and because I use mogami W2497 interconnects for everything RCA and they sound great, specially for the price. They do feel a little bass boosted when using the wireless. When I was younger I kind of liked it but now I prefer it a little tighter and cleaner. Gotta them brand new for about a 170 bucks a piece shipping and all And I have been really happy with them. There are better, I own better but then again they do cost about 10 times as much.
I had the Klipsch and the Port Chuffling was so bad I returned it! Bought the BIC F12 and I couldn’t be more happier! Hits every note from movies to music! No Port Chuffling on the BIC F12
@Ryan Monaghan chuffing is referring to the sound that the sub makes when air moves in and out of the port. Generally the sound is created when the sub is pushing to large of air volume for the port to handle, thus you get a "chuffing" noise.
@@IridiumcosmosYou are not up to date... are you? Polk has standard ports nowadays... While Klipsch has entered the high-end subwoofer game... Please do your homework and research before commenting naiv and dumb stuff... Check what both brands have changed... already for a few years... Your comment is like a few months old.. meaning, you didn't check any info.
Thanks for confirming with data why for years i felt Dayton sub1200 was underwhelming but similarly priced Infinity R12 impressed me. R12 performs similar to Klipsch R112sw which is $300 on sale
From a stand point of used pricing, almost no body on the planet has heard of BIC I feel like. If you own a DSP (I do) the BIC subs you can get used for dirt cheap because it doesn't have a recognized brand. Two of these behind a DSP to give it a perfect curve for your room gives you a ridiculously cheap cost for what you're getting. For people who just want to buy a single sub and throw it into a corner somewhere, it's not the right sub. Great testing.
Nice work again Erin. I'd be very curious to know where each of these are tuned in the bass. HSU used the phrase "True Subwoofer" way back when they got in the business meaning that if you are going to call it a subwoofer it should at least do 30 Hz or even 20 Hz well. They were usually tuned below 25 Hz because the vent significantly increases MAX SPL by decreasing driver excursion. Note that the Jamo has significantly lower output as compared to the others below 30 Hz. I consider 28 Hz as a good lower target for typical music, not including organ or synth, and given the increase in audibility threshold for humans with decreasing frequency we have to consider if the sub can produce enough output to make 28 Hz a reasonable target. These are big subs so they should all do it with authority. Getting to 20 Hz and below for organ, synth, HT effects, etc. is much more difficult due to the increase in required volume displacement combined with increasing human threshold of hearing at the listening position.
The pintbf 30 hz or belw is to feeeeeel the bass man its all part f the fun "experience" James been making massive subs and 3 ways and 400w 15" 3 ways as big as your washing machine, gd time use had with many an house party with a couple 365's and a couple cerwin vegas decks and some jungle techno rattling the building. Bout 94 that was, pure awesomeness. I was 13 yrs old n off me nut "shhhh😃🔉
Great breakdown - I bought the Klipsh R12S sub from Costco at $149.99 / returned it the following day. They port chuffing was horrendous, and a noticeable hum from the built in amp - junk.
@@Audiomainia2310 IDK man I have both Klipsch R12SW and R10SW. They slam pretty hard and tight with zero port noises . The R12SW goes really low. Maybe you had a bad luck run?
Its possible, but I went with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S and couldn't be happier. Cost more, but for sound and power output it was well worth the investment. Glad to hear you're happy with yours / that's what counts brother!
I would say for the budget range the Bic-F12 is the king. No port chuffing at all like the Klipsch and delivers all 150 watts rms with authority. Definitely needs EQ, it likes to peak a lot but once you control it it's a fantastic option. Still waiting for in depth review of the PL-300 by Bic.
I’d have to look up the numbers because I’m not familiar with the PB4000. But I’d almost always default to multiple subwoofers. Especially when you’re talking about 4 of them.
I'd say one fantastic quality subwoofer is miles better than four subpar r12s. Maybe consider getting two SVS PB2000S or two PB3000s. Otherwise one pb4000 should be fine.
Four R12 vs one SVS PB4000 isn't even the comparison to make . . . the benefits of multi-sub are not restricted to 4 subs. The diminishing returns of multi-sub are a result of it being so effective at evening out the frequency response, the other part of this that doesn't diminish is the gain in SPL from more subs. For the same $2300 you can actually have (12) R12 subs AND a 2x4 miniDSP for 4 zones of equalization. With the amount of excess excursion and power from 12 units, you can EQ in more low-low bass. Size/space restrictions is the problem here BUT for the same money, (12) R12 wont just easily beat a single PB4000, it will embarrass it.
R12 at the regular price of $500 is underwhelming and stomped in performance by Monoprice 10" THX Select. I wouldn't recommend a single sub though because it will be hard to get an even moderately flat frequency response.
Without hearing them purely based on the data I would have went with the Jamo, it’s more linear which should make for the more musical…. in theory. LOL
How would the monoprice budget 12 inch land on the list, would it compete with the infinity?, considering the drastic price different, would it compare with the jamo, that's a more even comparison.
It's unfortunate Klipsch has not addressed and fixed the problem with its amplifier blowing in the 12 inch sub. What's the point of a discount sub if the amp is garbage?
Can anyone, including Erin, explain the key difference, besides the price difference of course, between the budget 12"'s and regular 12"s. e.g., SVS-SB1000 pro and Monolith 12" THX. I found that the regular 12"s has flat frequencey repsonse down to 25Hz, whereas all the budget subwoofers do not. Why? Are drive motors substantially different between the two classes? or presence/absence of a parametric equalizer? Thanks a lot for info, in advance.
I've wondered this for years: Why did speaker makers switch from cardboard woofers to the different plastics like polyurethane and such, and which is better? Thanks 😁
Pro audio speaker company's and cabinet builders and speaker companies all use paper pulp or pressed paper pulp or non pressed paper pulp "cardboard?!" Not cardboard but it is and has allways been the best material for making speaker cones with. Any other material used is purely aesthetics and a marketing gimmic ourely based on what it looks like in your room gloss finnish bad ass black aluminium sub with a phat high roll surround and ish loads of pre loaded dsp settings. And if anyone tells you otherwise is lieing to you or does not care to help pointbyou in the right direction and help you research and enlighten yourself. Hope that helps and keep it turned up.🔉
One of my subscribers sent me, cool vid, I think I'm gonna check out the Jamo for shits and giggles! Might fuck around and change the port tuning just for fun.
Really enjoyed this comparison! If I may suggest, showing the back plates of the amps as you did but zooming in more so the voltage and current draw ratings could be clearly seen...from what I could tell, some subs left off the current and or watts used while some others varied from only 100 watts actual to 300 watts draw..thats a hell of a difference and shows the real power of the amp available vs manufacturers inflated claims.. ..this would be Very helpful and I hope you include closeups of these plate ratings in the future... I was hoping to see the polk PSW505 12" as these are real 300watt rms amps that do strongly in the 30hz region...Curious to see how they did at lower freqs on ur graph..they are also cheap and have around 3500 ratings on amazon... maybe next time...
@@ErinsAudioCorner The polk psw505 is Really expensive at the moment, but it Does go on sale on amazon ,bestbuy and newegg as low as 179.00...well at least it Used to! LOL That said, a recent check of amazon showed about 450 and newegg at 750! im shocked at the price increase!
Price increase 🤬..... all manufacturers are jumping on the ×2 bandwagon...... they are seriously taking the p1ss.... Ok.... we wont buy, and we hold onto our money untill they come to their senses...... Wonder how their "business models" are doing with no income?......
I provided the results in a table, linked in the description. Per the results: @16Hz - Bic was tied for 3rd most output (Infinity and Jamo were 1st/3rd, Dayton was tied for 3rd) @20Hz - Bic was 4th @25Hz - Bic/Dayton/Jamo were all within a few tenths of a dB The Bic then picks up.... but is non-linear and more peaky in response. So, as I said, the other speakers I would recommend are more linear and have more output on the low end. Cheers!
freq response is relative easy to measure and compare, so it have become a device for ranking speakers unfortunately. sound quality and how loud the sub can play before distortion is much more important then how deep it goes
The Monoprice SW-12 just went on sale for $189.99 and that's the 400 watt one, not the cheapie 150 watt sub. Excellent reviews, thank you for helping me build my system! Cheers!
It was on my list to order but they were out of stock forever. Literally got an in-stock notification Friday and I had already created my video. Oh well. Plus, I’m tapped out on money after this. I need time to recover my losses.
Great review man! I wish the Infinity had high level inputs. I want to set up two in stereo and can only do that with high level....its too bad Infinity left that out.
Damn, wanted to start build a home theater and Infinity SUB R12 is nowhere to be found, especially in Europe. Ill have to content with Jamo C912. You know anything about the Klipsch R-120SW? is it the same as the 12SW and looks differ?
it is strange , erin website cover rythmik F12 and no vidéo about this speaker in youtube . I really think that this subwoofer worth it . This subwoofer is relative old .......Is there better subwoofer in 2024 for the same size speaker and ampli power ? Thank's
Thanks a lot for a wonderful review Erin. Could you have a chance to experince Polk's new XT12? Since it is new I couldnt find any review. I am a about to replace my dead sub, I am looking for a budget one and this one is in my list. The other candidates available in my country are Elacs Debut S10.2 & Polk PSW40. These are chepaer here, almost half of XT12. Looking for your comments. Thanks.
Where did u get your AUX inputs at that u was using for your phone to play music on the speakers with?? I didnt know they had an aux input i wanna start hooking my phone up now to my speaker
Looks like Wirecutter is going to have to update their best budget subwoofer as the Dayton just lost. Awesome shootout as everything is such a headache trying to decide. Great channel!! BTW, with the price of the Infinity I'd like to have thrown the Rogersound labs Speedwoofer 10S in there.
I have an old but perfectly adequate (except sub) Sony HTK-215 surround sound system for the bedroom. It has an active SA-WMS215 50watt RMS Subwoofer which is ok at low volumes but lacks when I crank it up a bit. I want to replace it with a better active one but it's connected by a single RCA lead. What units do you suggest I look at ?
What's your setup consist of? If you have an AVR you should have a subwoofer pre-out that you can hook the Infinity up to. If you only have high-level outputs (speaker outputs) then unfortunately the Infinity can't do anything with that. You might be able to get a line output converter (speaker level to line level converter) but I don't know what that market looks like at the moment.
How do you really know about the OSD? You turned on the DSP, did you use it? Maybe not so highest output with Maybe you could’ve flattened and extended the response to make it usable? Is the loudest always the best??? Curious
Great info, too bad the Infinity is not available right now (Nov 2022) from the common places. The Yamo does happen to be on a great sale, if you can stomach the white version. :)
ADVICE? Recently scored 2 BIC F12 barely used for a killer price. one for the HT room and one for the PC gaming/music room. Was going to get rid of my 2 Polk PSW10 units, but now you have me convinced 2 in each room is the way to go. Now, If you owned these 4 subs, would you mix a 12" and a 10" in each room or go 2x12 in one room and 2x10 in the other? and why?
Any suggestions for a budget 12” driver that would be pretty flat down to around 30hz? (I have a Monoprice 150W active sub that only goes down to 50hz and I want to replace the driver. I’d like it to be able to at least reproduce the low E on a bass guitar (41Hz) without significant dropoff (meaning less than -3dB)
I'd like to but the holdup there is money. These subs cost me $1200. Fifteen-inch subwoofers are more costly. So if I do a shootout with 15's it would probably be at least a year from now.
Hi Erin, just coming around your videos as I’m looking to replace a JBL Sub12 in my living room. It’s a medium/large open room with really high ceilings 20’+. So, I was going to replace it with 2 subs. I watched your videos for the 10 + 12 in reviews. I was looking into the Polk 10” ($149) since my current front bookshelf’s are Polk Signature, and the Jam 12” ($209). Initially I was thinking of going with a $400-$500 sub. What would you recommend? Any advise? Thanks.
Advice?????? Build a false ceiling and lower it down to 9ft....... Your heating so much upthere, its costing you far too much, and a false ceiling will pay for its self after 2 years in saved heating bills...... Thinking on, if the top space is for your loft/attic, then you could just lower that and have 10 more feet in height, so you could make a nice theatre room upthere......?....... Awesome comment, your home must be really old and look really wonderful with all the ceiling architecture those houses have 🙂👍🏻
Just wondering, considering that the retail price for the Infinity R12 is almost $500, is it worth it for $200 to get the Inifinity R12 refurbished? Or stick with the Jamo C912 brand new for the same price?
Hey Erin, I watched your 10" and 12" subwoofer videos, and really like your approach to testing. I really like the jamo 12" you tested, but I don't have the room for it. I'm wondering if the 10" version is similar, as it would fit my space better. All the reviews I can find are 90% or better positive. I just don't want to be disappointed. Any info will be appreciated.
It's hard to say with certainty. One would *hope* that the 10" version would be similar but just with the expected reduced capability in the lower frequencies. But until I see tests that prove it, I don't know that I would trust that notion.
If we were talking about Harman or Kef, I would probably trust a slimdown from 12 to 10. Jamo is not a company I would trust on that issue without test results -- they have put out some terrible speakers in the past.
I mean, really cool reviews and awesome comparison.. was exactly what I was looking for. Quick question though.. Where the bleep is the Infinity R12 available for $170? Certainly, not via that link! (1 day later lol)
@@ErinsAudioCorner I did, thanks man.. Not you're problem, just crazy it changed that fast. Even the Refurb is $200 now. BTW your video is all over the place already.. big hit on Reddit too 👍
Tried to check out that infinity now and it went all the way up to 500 then they discontinued it personally id never pay 500 for something like that but then again I own a klipsch r112sw which Is about to be obsolete they are replacing them if I remember correctly its a good sub especially if u set it up right and have a good rca cable so there is not hum that the amp will make I dont think klipsch is at all an amazing brand I think they are designed to be flashy yet almost classy in away to catch the eye of somone new they sure did that to me until I owned 2 and realized there amps are crap they lack features they have tons of port noise and there build quality is not meant to last at all mine gets dirty very fast very easily and is hart to clean on the other hand jamo is made by klipsch and so far much better quality but at the same time I haven't heard one of there subs yet I only have 2 of there c95 ii and I love them but until jamo makes something in the caliber I'm Wanting im gonna keep my klipsch but for the price I got my sub for I probably could have got an svs that at least had more features idk I've never heard anything other than what I have and definitive technology towers which were fucking awesome
Thank you for this usefull vid! You are so openspeaking, thats very impressive. This Vid i also can show my friends who dont know anything about acoustics & electronics ;) Thank you again for your work!
Do you know any magnat subs? Because in Germany they are always recommended as the best budget subs (with the exception of the mivoc hype 10g2), but there are like no comparisons to other subs. And my problem is, that most of the subs in your videos are not available in Germany / totally overpriced. Iam especially interested in the Magnat Alpha Rs12 and Rs8 subs.
Ha! Well, the thing is you are the first and only person to mention that one that I recall. Not sure I’ve ever even heard of it. 🤷♂️ But maybe for a future round. 👍
I was lucky to find another infinity Beta SW -12. Man the infinitys I have are pounding will good. Had to spend 30 minutes using RABOS kit on each one but it paid off.
I recently purchased a second Elac 10” Per your previous subwoofer showdown. As it’s for my two channel stereo, I’m enjoying it. They don’t have low-end extension, but the type of music I typically listen to doesn’t require it. Thanks for another great showdown.
Glad to hear the suggestion worked for you. 👍
"the type of music I typically listen to doesn’t require it"
that's what you think! even some lute recordings have that serious church air pressure you only get with serious subbass extension! regardless I've no doubt you've an enjoyable setup!
I have a pair of the Dayton 12's. I used a coupon code I searched up online and one was an open box. I was able to get them both for $230 shipped, back when they were $150 each retail.
For that price, I can't complain. They shake the walls when I turn up the system and they do pretty ok with movies. They do not have enough articulation to sound good with much music, other than techno.
When I bought them, I was just running some Dayton T-652 Air towers with an SMSL AD18. They were well suited to that system. I later upgraded to JBL Studio 580's, which I highly recommend when they are on sale. Most recently I swapped out the AD18 for an Emotiva TA-1. By now the subs are really the weak link. If I'm just listening to music, I might even be better off unplugging them and setting the speakers to full range, depending on the genre. That said, I mostly use them for movies and they do work well enough up to 90hz to allow the speakers to benefit from the 90hz high pass. And they do benefit from that. So I would consider the Daytons definitely better than nothing in a home theater, perhaps even a solid choice for a budget system. But they will not grow with you as you make upgrades.
Man I just bought a subwoofer to go with my Revel m16's then you release this.... good thing I bought the infinity r12 :) Was only $170, love it.
Good choice!
The amp on my Def Tech ProSub 1000 finally gave out after 15 years. I replaced it with a Jamo C912 and have been happy with it for the money. Thanks for the great review.
One interesting discussion point, and something I highly recommend doing, is that you can buy a DSP, put it in front of the subwoofer, and you can really make these linear. You can get rid of the bloated upper bass, and it these 'cheap' subs really do shine. For $100 for a minidsp, it's hard to go wrong and still keeps you under the next tier of subwoofer in costs while offering some nice quality gains.
So if you already have a DSP, and a Calbrated Mic (about $200 total) that you used for your mains, then you can get a lot of mileage out of these cheap subs, especially if you want to buy multiple and take advantage of multi-sub placement.
For sure. I've been rocking miniDSP since 2009 or so. Killer stuff.
@@ErinsAudioCorner What is a DSP?
For music sure, for home theatre where a lot of subbass is need though, this sort of sub won‘t cut it.
The Infinity is the most powerful here, yet you‘d need 8 of them to match the 20Hz output of a single Monoprice 12“ THX Ultra and ~22 to match one 16“ Monoprice 16“.
Solid point I've never tried that actually
@@BL-yj2wp I never claimed they would cut it. But sometimes subbass isn't the goal.
Thanks for what you do, Really enjoy your videos. I Have 2 of the Klipsch R-12SWI love them work great zero issues (they are not the ones available at Costco! But not quite the SPL's) they have built in wireless that works great and Detachable power cable. I dont use the wireless in my new HT room, mostly because of where I have them in the front corners now and because I use mogami W2497 interconnects for everything RCA and they sound great, specially for the price. They do feel a little bass boosted when using the wireless. When I was younger I kind of liked it but now I prefer it a little tighter and cleaner. Gotta them brand new for about a 170 bucks a piece shipping and all And I have been really happy with them. There are better, I own better but then again they do cost about 10 times as much.
Great shootout, I'm impressed with the matching infinity Reference 152 Bookshelf speakers, in my bedroom set up.
I had the Klipsch and the Port Chuffling was so bad I returned it! Bought the BIC F12 and I couldn’t be more happier! Hits every note from movies to music! No Port Chuffling on the BIC F12
@Ryan Monaghan chuffing is referring to the sound that the sub makes when air moves in and out of the port. Generally the sound is created when the sub is pushing to large of air volume for the port to handle, thus you get a "chuffing" noise.
Every Klipsch sub needs a horn slotted port badly. Or a flared port like how Polk does on their more expensive subs.
@@IridiumcosmosYou are not up to date... are you?
Polk has standard ports nowadays...
While Klipsch has entered the high-end subwoofer game...
Please do your homework and research before commenting naiv and dumb stuff...
Check what both brands have changed... already for a few years...
Your comment is like a few months old.. meaning, you didn't check any info.
The Jamo does have auto stand-by, btw.
After 15 minutes of inactivity, it goes into stand-by.
I have a Dayton audio 1500, that thing booms the whole house. great video I enjoyed it !
This is really useful info for the community. Maybe not as sexy as the $2500+ models but great bang for the buck. Thanks Erin!
If sexiness and air pressure had anything in common....
How does my guy Erin NOT have a million subs??!! Love your work sir, BOOM
Thanks man I bought the white Jamo its on sale for $165 before tax on Amazon today!
Thanks for confirming with data why for years i felt Dayton sub1200 was underwhelming but similarly priced Infinity R12 impressed me. R12 performs similar to Klipsch R112sw which is $300 on sale
Can't wait to get the Infinity R12. Everywhere else are out of stock beside Amazon and it's not not really on sale for $249.
Those are some good descriptive words..especially, "I feel firmly"
From a stand point of used pricing, almost no body on the planet has heard of BIC I feel like. If you own a DSP (I do) the BIC subs you can get used for dirt cheap because it doesn't have a recognized brand. Two of these behind a DSP to give it a perfect curve for your room gives you a ridiculously cheap cost for what you're getting. For people who just want to buy a single sub and throw it into a corner somewhere, it's not the right sub. Great testing.
Nice work again Erin. I'd be very curious to know where each of these are tuned in the bass. HSU used the phrase
"True Subwoofer" way back when they got in the business meaning that if you are going to call it a subwoofer it should at least do 30 Hz or even 20 Hz well. They were usually tuned below 25 Hz because the vent significantly increases MAX SPL by decreasing driver excursion. Note that the Jamo has significantly lower output as compared to the others below 30 Hz.
I consider 28 Hz as a good lower target for typical music, not including organ or synth, and given the increase in audibility threshold for humans with decreasing frequency we have to consider if the sub can produce enough output to make 28 Hz a reasonable target. These are big subs so they should all do it with authority. Getting to 20 Hz and below for organ, synth, HT effects, etc. is much more difficult due to the increase in required volume displacement combined with increasing human threshold of hearing at the listening position.
I have the 15 HSU's and these are entry level mid bass drivers compared to the large box heavy hitters.
The pintbf 30 hz or belw is to feeeeeel the bass man its all part f the fun "experience" James been making massive subs and 3 ways and 400w 15" 3 ways as big as your washing machine, gd time use had with many an house party with a couple 365's and a couple cerwin vegas decks and some jungle techno rattling the building. Bout 94 that was, pure awesomeness. I was 13 yrs old n off me nut "shhhh😃🔉
thank you i bought the jamo c912 sub based on the video review and i am satisfied, i covered the bass port with cotton socks as i dont want boomy bass
Great breakdown - I bought the Klipsh R12S sub from Costco at $149.99 / returned it the following day. They port chuffing was horrendous, and a noticeable hum from the built in amp - junk.
Thanks for the info!
Damn is it really that bad. I was gonna order it for that same price 😔
@@crazebane4394 It really is that bad. Nasty port chuffing. And mine was brand new.
A classic example of " your get what you pay for".
@@Audiomainia2310 IDK man I have both Klipsch R12SW and R10SW. They slam pretty hard and tight with zero port noises . The R12SW goes really low. Maybe you had a bad luck run?
Its possible, but I went with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S and couldn't be happier. Cost more, but for sound and power output it was well worth the investment. Glad to hear you're happy with yours / that's what counts brother!
I'm starting to question any Klipsch product with an amplifier in it. They seem sketchy.
Glad I picked up 2 infinity's for my garage setup while they were on sale! They sound pretty good even while comparing to my Rythmiks!
I would say for the budget range the Bic-F12 is the king. No port chuffing at all like the Klipsch and delivers all 150 watts rms with authority. Definitely needs EQ, it likes to peak a lot but once you control it it's a fantastic option. Still waiting for in depth review of the PL-300 by Bic.
Notable mention to BIC v1020 and v1220. Ive seen them almost new or new for 70-100$ and they sound similar to the f12
So in your own home theater room, given a $2300 budget: four R12 subs or one SVS PB4000 (or equivalent)?
I’d have to look up the numbers because I’m not familiar with the PB4000. But I’d almost always default to multiple subwoofers. Especially when you’re talking about 4 of them.
I'd say one fantastic quality subwoofer is miles better than four subpar r12s. Maybe consider getting two SVS PB2000S or two PB3000s. Otherwise one pb4000 should be fine.
Four R12 vs one SVS PB4000 isn't even the comparison to make . . . the benefits of multi-sub are not restricted to 4 subs. The diminishing returns of multi-sub are a result of it being so effective at evening out the frequency response, the other part of this that doesn't diminish is the gain in SPL from more subs. For the same $2300 you can actually have (12) R12 subs AND a 2x4 miniDSP for 4 zones of equalization. With the amount of excess excursion and power from 12 units, you can EQ in more low-low bass.
Size/space restrictions is the problem here BUT for the same money, (12) R12 wont just easily beat a single PB4000, it will embarrass it.
Budget / room size are the two key factors. More importantly, room size.
R12 at the regular price of $500 is underwhelming and stomped in performance by Monoprice 10" THX Select. I wouldn't recommend a single sub though because it will be hard to get an even moderately flat frequency response.
Without hearing them purely based on the data I would have went with the Jamo, it’s more linear which should make for the more musical…. in theory. LOL
How would the monoprice budget 12 inch land on the list, would it compete with the infinity?, considering the drastic price different, would it compare with the jamo, that's a more even comparison.
Same question I have
It's unfortunate Klipsch has not addressed and fixed the problem with its amplifier blowing in the 12 inch sub. What's the point of a discount sub if the amp is garbage?
Can anyone, including Erin, explain the key difference, besides the price difference of course, between the budget 12"'s and regular 12"s. e.g., SVS-SB1000 pro and Monolith 12" THX. I found that the regular 12"s has flat frequencey repsonse down to 25Hz, whereas all the budget subwoofers do not. Why?
Are drive motors substantially different between the two classes? or presence/absence of a parametric equalizer?
Thanks a lot for info, in advance.
Absolutely well done mate. Very clear well presented videos that you do are really appreciated. Cheers
I've wondered this for years: Why did speaker makers switch from cardboard woofers to the different plastics like polyurethane and such, and which is better? Thanks 😁
Pro audio speaker company's and cabinet builders and speaker companies all use paper pulp or pressed paper pulp or non pressed paper pulp "cardboard?!" Not cardboard but it is and has allways been the best material for making speaker cones with. Any other material used is purely aesthetics and a marketing gimmic ourely based on what it looks like in your room gloss finnish bad ass black aluminium sub with a phat high roll surround and ish loads of pre loaded dsp settings. And if anyone tells you otherwise is lieing to you or does not care to help pointbyou in the right direction and help you research and enlighten yourself. Hope that helps and keep it turned up.🔉
Great video!
On a side note, you actually listen to people and take action from that and understand science; can you become a politician?
Taj frame gets a follow......bmxer for life.......love audio stuff as well
Awesome! Psyched someone recognized it. It’s signed by Mat and I’m sending it to Taj to get him to sign it hopefully soon. 👍👍👍
Thank you again so much for this helpful, in-depth review. Your time and effort are greatly appreciated.
One of my subscribers sent me, cool vid, I think I'm gonna check out the Jamo for shits and giggles! Might fuck around and change the port tuning just for fun.
I'm not sure I see a need to alter what they provide but in-room results may benefit depending on room modes relative to the tuning frequency.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yeah I hear ya, then again I don't see a need for any of this audio stuff lol
Fyi, the B.I.C. driver is an aluminum "look", It's actually a synthetic plastic (PP) injection molded driver.
Awesome work! Im going to wait and upgrade my 8inch monoprice subs for the dual infinity 12s! When they go back on sale
The infinity R12 is sold out anywhere :(. Can the Bic be stuffed inside to minimize the ringing at 50hz
Really enjoyed this comparison! If I may suggest, showing the back plates of the amps as you did but zooming in more so the voltage and current draw ratings could be clearly seen...from what I could tell, some subs left off the current and or watts used while some others varied from only 100 watts actual to 300 watts draw..thats a hell of a difference and shows the real power of the amp available vs manufacturers inflated claims.. ..this would be Very helpful and I hope you include closeups of these plate ratings in the future... I was hoping to see the polk PSW505 12"
as these are real 300watt rms amps that do strongly in the 30hz region...Curious to see how they did at lower freqs on ur graph..they are also cheap and have around 3500 ratings on amazon... maybe next time...
Noted on the zooming request. The Polk PSW505 is $499. Way outside the realm of what I was testing here.
@@ErinsAudioCorner The polk psw505 is Really expensive at the moment, but it Does go on sale on amazon ,bestbuy and newegg as low as 179.00...well at least it Used to! LOL
That said, a recent check of amazon showed about 450 and newegg at 750!
im shocked at the price increase!
Price increase 🤬..... all manufacturers are jumping on the ×2 bandwagon...... they are seriously taking the p1ss....
Ok.... we wont buy, and we hold onto our money untill they come to their senses......
Wonder how their "business models" are doing with no income?......
Looks like BIC went lowest but you dismiss it right away.
What am I missing ?
I provided the results in a table, linked in the description. Per the results:
@16Hz - Bic was tied for 3rd most output (Infinity and Jamo were 1st/3rd, Dayton was tied for 3rd)
@20Hz - Bic was 4th
@25Hz - Bic/Dayton/Jamo were all within a few tenths of a dB
The Bic then picks up.... but is non-linear and more peaky in response. So, as I said, the other speakers I would recommend are more linear and have more output on the low end. Cheers!
@@ErinsAudioCorner thanks for the clear description!
I want to buy a new another bigger subwoofer, so I watch your video too, Thank you, ok, lets gooooooo!!
Klipsch Killer should be your new nickname for Halloween.
Great job, I've been waiting for this video to come out. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
You should add affiliate links for UK buyers too - just to help the channel a little more.
Great reviews BTW.
Some of these are not available in the UK and if they are, they're overpriced compared to the US.
freq response is relative easy to measure and compare, so it have become a device for ranking speakers unfortunately. sound quality and how loud the sub can play before distortion is much more important then how deep it goes
The Monoprice SW-12 just went on sale for $189.99
and that's the 400 watt one, not the cheapie 150 watt sub.
Excellent reviews, thank you for helping me build my system!
Cheers!
It was on my list to order but they were out of stock forever. Literally got an in-stock notification Friday and I had already created my video. Oh well. Plus, I’m tapped out on money after this. I need time to recover my losses.
Yeah and now you can buy Monoprice 15" SW-15 600 Watt RMS 800 Watt Peak 25-30hz for $239
@@yournightmare9999 I saw!
The SW-12 is now Wirecutter's best budget subwoofer.
@@mikedinno8413 I ended up with the Monolith M-12 V2 12in THX Ultra, it's a beast!
Great review man! I wish the Infinity had high level inputs. I want to set up two in stereo and can only do that with high level....its too bad Infinity left that out.
Thanks!
SVS has some compelling options, curious how they stack up
Switch that Flip!
Great video. You should review a BK electronics subwoofer. Budget price and great value for money
Great vídeo! Greetins from Brazil.
We need more of the plurple hair bro. Great video! I've been looking forward to this for a while. I'm glad you did it!
You got it! 😬😂
It's Vinyl Siding Veneer is wood am I wrong?
Damn, wanted to start build a home theater and Infinity SUB R12 is nowhere to be found, especially in Europe. Ill have to content with Jamo C912. You know anything about the Klipsch R-120SW? is it the same as the 12SW and looks differ?
I purchased the jamo c912 based on your recommendation. What are your thoughts on the Dayton DSP-LF for this sub?
I’m not familiar with the Dayton. I did look it up real quick and it looks like a nice tool to have.
it is strange , erin website cover rythmik F12 and no vidéo about this speaker in youtube . I really think that this subwoofer worth it . This subwoofer is relative old .......Is there better subwoofer in 2024 for the same size speaker and ampli power ? Thank's
That was from 2012.
Erin what do you think of the ELAC SUB1225? Considering that sub or the Klipsch R-100SW or R-120SW
How about listing the power rating with your reviews. Love the content.
Yamo c912 have 75watt or 200watt rms, because jamo shop says 75 watt rms other shop says 200watt. Yamo j12 will be stronger than c912 or not?
Thanks a lot for a wonderful review Erin. Could you have a chance to experince Polk's new XT12? Since it is new I couldnt find any review. I am a about to replace my dead sub, I am looking for a budget one and this one is in my list. The other candidates available in my country are Elacs Debut S10.2 & Polk PSW40. These are chepaer here, almost half of XT12. Looking for your comments. Thanks.
Where did u get your AUX inputs at that u was using for your phone to play music on the speakers with?? I didnt know they had an aux input i wanna start hooking my phone up now to my speaker
was the monoprice 12 renamed to (or replaced by) the Monoprice 12 Inch 150 Watt (109723) (from the sheet)
Nice work as usual Erin!
Thanks!
Looks like Wirecutter is going to have to update their best budget subwoofer as the Dayton just lost. Awesome shootout as everything is such a headache trying to decide. Great channel!! BTW, with the price of the Infinity I'd like to have thrown the Rogersound labs Speedwoofer 10S in there.
I have an old but perfectly adequate (except sub) Sony HTK-215 surround sound system for the bedroom. It has an active SA-WMS215 50watt RMS Subwoofer which is ok at low volumes but lacks when I crank it up a bit.
I want to replace it with a better active one but it's connected by a single RCA lead.
What units do you suggest I look at ?
Do the high level inputs/outputs allow you to run signal from an amplifier to the sub then to your L/R channels?
I decided to buy a polk audio PSW12 what is you opinion
the infinity link is just to the speaker with no box?
If I were to get the Infinity and my amp has no sub out, what is the best way to hook it up to the amp?
What's your setup consist of? If you have an AVR you should have a subwoofer pre-out that you can hook the Infinity up to. If you only have high-level outputs (speaker outputs) then unfortunately the Infinity can't do anything with that. You might be able to get a line output converter (speaker level to line level converter) but I don't know what that market looks like at the moment.
How do you really know about the OSD? You turned on the DSP, did you use it? Maybe not so highest output with Maybe you could’ve flattened and extended the response to make it usable? Is the loudest always the best??? Curious
You must have missed the part where I talked about exactly that. @06:54
Great info, too bad the Infinity is not available right now (Nov 2022) from the common places. The Yamo does happen to be on a great sale, if you can stomach the white version. :)
Sprey cans dont cost too much..... 😂
ADVICE? Recently scored 2 BIC F12 barely used for a killer price. one for the HT room and one for the PC gaming/music room. Was going to get rid of my 2 Polk PSW10 units, but now you have me convinced 2 in each room is the way to go. Now, If you owned these 4 subs, would you mix a 12" and a 10" in each room or go 2x12 in one room and 2x10 in the other? and why?
Use them in matching pairs for sure... Its actually pretty important if you have the option
Any suggestions for a budget 12” driver that would be pretty flat down to around 30hz? (I have a Monoprice 150W active sub that only goes down to 50hz and I want to replace the driver. I’d like it to be able to at least reproduce the low E on a bass guitar (41Hz) without significant dropoff (meaning less than -3dB)
No closed boxes in there?
@ Erins audio corner like your breakdown on subwoofer specs ,is there a possibility we can get review 15" subwoofer as well in future.
I'd like to but the holdup there is money. These subs cost me $1200. Fifteen-inch subwoofers are more costly. So if I do a shootout with 15's it would probably be at least a year from now.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you for replying really appreciate it .I will to go to your site and contribute.
Dang, if only the Jamo C912 had hi level inputs. I'm probably gonna have to stick back down to the Elac because of that.
What happened to the Seas coax you were measuring, Erin?
It's right next to me in this video. :)
Hi Erin, just coming around your videos as I’m looking to replace a JBL Sub12 in my living room. It’s a medium/large open room with really high ceilings 20’+. So, I was going to replace it with 2 subs. I watched your videos for the 10 + 12 in reviews. I was looking into the Polk 10” ($149) since my current front bookshelf’s are Polk Signature, and the Jam 12” ($209). Initially I was thinking of going with a $400-$500 sub. What would you recommend? Any advise? Thanks.
Advice??????
Build a false ceiling and lower it down to 9ft.......
Your heating so much upthere, its costing you far too much, and a false ceiling will pay for its self after 2 years in saved heating bills......
Thinking on, if the top space is for your loft/attic, then you could just lower that and have 10 more feet in height, so you could make a nice theatre room upthere......?.......
Awesome comment, your home must be really old and look really wonderful with all the ceiling architecture those houses have 🙂👍🏻
Just wondering, considering that the retail price for the Infinity R12 is almost $500, is it worth it for $200 to get the Inifinity R12 refurbished? Or stick with the Jamo C912 brand new for the same price?
I’d go with the Infinity (assuming you are OK buying refurbished stuff).
Any chance you might be able to add timestamps in the future?
If someone wants to do the work for me I will add them.
So I have a subwoofer that needs a replacement fuse but I dont know what size it needs I tried 6×30mm fuse but it's too small how do I find the size?
I would expect the manual to have the info. If not, try emailing the manufacturer.
Hey Erin, I watched your 10" and 12" subwoofer videos, and really like your approach to testing. I really like the jamo 12" you tested, but I don't have the room for it. I'm wondering if the 10" version is similar, as it would fit my space better. All the reviews I can find are 90% or better positive. I just don't want to be disappointed. Any info will be appreciated.
It's hard to say with certainty. One would *hope* that the 10" version would be similar but just with the expected reduced capability in the lower frequencies. But until I see tests that prove it, I don't know that I would trust that notion.
If we were talking about Harman or Kef, I would probably trust a slimdown from 12 to 10. Jamo is not a company I would trust on that issue without test results -- they have put out some terrible speakers in the past.
@@ErinsAudioCorner OK I finally found the infinity in stock, for $269. So Jamo c912 is $220, Is the Infinity worth the extra $50 in your opinion?
@@robertmajors1737 I think so, yes.
I mean, really cool reviews and awesome comparison.. was exactly what I was looking for. Quick question though.. Where the bleep is the Infinity R12 available for $170? Certainly, not via that link! (1 day later lol)
Outta my control. Popular sub. Did you see the other link I provided to the refurb for $190?
@@ErinsAudioCorner I did, thanks man.. Not you're problem, just crazy it changed that fast. Even the Refurb is $200 now. BTW your video is all over the place already.. big hit on Reddit too 👍
Man got excited for this thing to be discontinued. Nice video though
Great stuff, well done 👍
Thanks!
Have you found Klippel and ground plane measurement results to be similar?
Absolutely. I’ve shown comparisons numerous times in other reviews. 👍
Excellent video
Tried to check out that infinity now and it went all the way up to 500 then they discontinued it personally id never pay 500 for something like that but then again I own a klipsch r112sw which Is about to be obsolete they are replacing them if I remember correctly its a good sub especially if u set it up right and have a good rca cable so there is not hum that the amp will make I dont think klipsch is at all an amazing brand I think they are designed to be flashy yet almost classy in away to catch the eye of somone new they sure did that to me until I owned 2 and realized there amps are crap they lack features they have tons of port noise and there build quality is not meant to last at all mine gets dirty very fast very easily and is hart to clean on the other hand jamo is made by klipsch and so far much better quality but at the same time I haven't heard one of there subs yet I only have 2 of there c95 ii and I love them but until jamo makes something in the caliber I'm Wanting im gonna keep my klipsch but for the price I got my sub for I probably could have got an svs that at least had more features idk I've never heard anything other than what I have and definitive technology towers which were fucking awesome
Great test Erin! Are you in Texas?
Thanks. Alabama.
Polk PSW 10 or Klipsch r-12sw?
Yea, I got one, but the freight would be killer.
I have 14 subwoofers (although only 12 of them are hooked up), is that enough?
Hmmm.... add 20 more and let me know. :D
Is a huge difference front porter vs Rear porter ?????????
No, just do your research and make sure the port noise isn't bad. Some like the Klipsch is terrible.
Thank you for this usefull vid! You are so openspeaking, thats very impressive. This Vid i also can show my friends who dont know anything about acoustics & electronics ;) Thank you again for your work!
I appreciate that!
Do you know any magnat subs? Because in Germany they are always recommended as the best budget subs (with the exception of the mivoc hype 10g2), but there are like no comparisons to other subs. And my problem is, that most of the subs in your videos are not available in Germany / totally overpriced. Iam especially interested in the Magnat Alpha Rs12 and Rs8 subs.
Not that I know of.
Oh NOOOOOO! You left out a good quality budget sub the Fluance DB12! But at least you included the Jamo, so all's forgiven : )
Ha! Well, the thing is you are the first and only person to mention that one that I recall. Not sure I’ve ever even heard of it. 🤷♂️ But maybe for a future round. 👍
I still have my infinity SW-12 and it's better the R-12. The bass RABOS on this sub does wonders.
I was lucky to find another infinity Beta SW -12. Man the infinitys I have are pounding will good. Had to spend 30 minutes using RABOS kit on each one but it paid off.
Love the channel!
Glad to hear it!
Test one of the Rythmik Subwoofers in the 600 to 800 dollar range.
You got one to send me to test? If so, let’s go.
Jak zrobic fainy subofor samemu
Where's the monoprice?
I like klipsch model..
Gold speaker..
The shape is good foor me..
Mantab buat nonton film.