Which Amplifier is the best Audiolab 8000A, Nad 3020, A&R Cambridge A60 Review . Vintage Stereo HiFi
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- What one of these 3 award winning amplifiers from late 70's to early 80's
Any of these 3 amplifiers will be a good choice in setting up a HiFi system or set up for yourself amd The NAD 3020 , A&R Cambridge A60 and the Audiolab 8000A had somewhat of a cult following in their day.
The best 19 stereo amplifiers of What Hi-Fi?'s lifetime, www.google.com...
A big thanks to Michael and he's TH-cam channel "raceingdemon6464"
for the donation of the A&R A60 Amplifier and making this comparison possible. link here to he''s channel / raceingdemon6464
Also head over to Kevin's Ditton Works channel for a further review of the NAD 3020 Amplifier here / @dittonworks
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A friend of mine had an A&R Cambridge A60 when it first came out and it kept popping the fuses when he increased the volume up.
Turned out the loudspeaker cable he was using was the culprit. It was a litz cable and apparently they have high capacitance and the amplifier didn't like it. Much in the same vein as early Naim amps I guess.
So if anyone is considering trying an A60 remember to stay clear of high capacitance cables. That would probably include the CAT5 cables that many audiophiles use too.
Thanks for the infomation on the speaker cables being the culprit of the fuses blowing on the A60, something I would have not thought of
@@MichaelYates When he took the amplifier back to the shop he bought it from, Russ Andrews in Edinburgh, to be repaired, the first thing they asked him was what speaker cable he was using. They obviously had an idea right away what was blowing the fuses.
They duly replaced the fuses and gave it a good few minutes at high volume connected to some QED 79 strand feeding a pair of Linn Kans.
He changed the cable on returning home and the amp is still going strong and doing service in a second system he now has.
@@djgibby1301 Excellent that is some good information on anyone buying the A60 today
I'm old enough to be very familiar with these, having used them all. The Audiolab is in a different class and absolutely WIPES THE FLOOR with the other two.
My grandad bought an 8000a brand new in 1983, and I ended up inheriting it in 1996.
It's *_still_* the centre of my current stereo, although the only thing connected to it these days is a PC.
I've had to replace the fuse twice in eighteen years of constant, heavy use. The thing is a monster. It took everything I threw at it, and it still makes the whole building shake if I turn it up.
I'm not much of an audiophile type and I honestly had no idea it was so well thought of.
@@stickiedmin6508 I think that's the same year I bought mine, the year they came out. I'd still be using it, but running sub 4 ohm Magnepans eventually blew an output transformer. It was an absolute beast and far more neutral than the competition, especially Naim.
I liked the Audiolab a lot and it was top of my list, I preferred the Nad over A60 because it had loads of drive and grip, although I think your right the A60 sounded clearer for sure. Just goes to show that people look for differing things , drive and base for one person and maybe delicate and open for someone else. Boring the world be if we were all the same. THANK YOU really enjoyed that.
Thanks Kevin, yes this HiFi game is pretty much like anything else in life. I wonder if 40 years ago I might have choose a different winner.
Hi Michael, I found the Nad had Nowhere as much detailed as the 8000a and does sound cloudy compaired. But the Nad was just so much more fun to listen to. Never had the a60 but a friend did and he loved that amp. great review.
Yes the NAD was did well here and it was at least half the price than the other 2 back then
I was eagerly waiting for you to give me a comparison, but as you waffled on ,I got bored and switched off.
Sorry Stephen I know I am a real waffler as my wife keeps telling me. Your not the only one to complain.
Spot on with your assessment Michael. I've owned all 3 of these, the 8000a is the one I kept. From a electronics viewpoint the build quality and circuit topography is first class. If you ever revisit budget amps from this era it would be nice to see a Creek 4040 in the mix.
Thanks Chris, the Creek 4040 is not an amp I am to familar with, but now has peeked my interest. I am just in the process of moving, but once moved I will keep my eye out for one
and maybe a Cyrus one
I put Quad 303 and NAD 3020 in the same place! Very plesant sound! Rich,natural and relaxing.I am planning to put the trigger on Audiolab 8000a,but i am not sure.Some people say it is boring and analitycal...MK3 is the one to chase apparently.Also i am interested on Creek 4140S2.For now Quad 303 and NAD 3020 are beautiful.
I did end up selling the 8000a on even though it gave a lot more detail, but it was just not envolving enough for me. If you do pick one up will be interested in your toughts.
@@MichaelYates So it is true what people say about Audiolab 8000a. It is detailed,but not involving...That kind of sound makes big impression at the beginning.It gives you that WOW effect.Probably that's why it has so many positive feedbacks and of course some people like it in the long run ... I am sure with the time,most people realise that it is not all about detail though.So i will take 8000a out of my list. I might look for another Quad. Maybe Quad 306.I have read some comments that it's even better that 303,but some people say it is not as musical... Cheers!
The NAD was a good low budget amp. But the Audiolab and Cambridge are the better amps here. Great Little round up
In your opinion? Yes? Yes.
Great Review Michael As I Have These 3 Amps As Well And I Know My Preference Is
1 Audiolab 8000A
2 A&R A60
3 Nad 3020
So Great Minds Think Alike Michael he he
One Point To Note About The Audiolab 8000A Is it Can Sound a Bit Clinical From Switch On
But After a Couple Of Hours Warming Up it Begins To Really Open Up And Sounds Really Lovely .....Thanks For These Uploads Michael Great Work Regards mike.
Thanks Mike, was a fun but getting stressful towards the end experiment that I just about got through. Though forgot all about Vinyl which a lot of people would be using these amps for back then and now. Thanks again for making this possible. Regards Michael
you should get the Quad 303
Are these old amplifiers running in specification? Read this long post if you care about vintage amps… Have the capacitors been replaced? Any transistors checked/replaced as needed? If not, the amplifier can sound completely different to its original state. Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitors DO wear out (just measure one on an LCR bridge after 25 years). Transistors can also drift out of spec. As a reference a Cyrus One I had was over 25 years old, sounded lifeless, woolly bass, no stereo imaging, even when "cranked up" to number 4 with a high-level output CD player - it sounded horrid. Replace the capacitors - especially the feedback capacitors - it sounded like a completely different beast. Sounded amazing, it was loud on number 2, much louder than before, with lots of bass that was previously missing, anything higher than 3 was too much for the amp now the gain and frequency range was back in specification. Just a note, this is not about capacitor sound, the capacitor value drops with age, and the ESR increases. Old transistors can have reduced gain and other issues. In an amplifier this leads to reduction in gain and frequency range, noisy output, erratic behaviour, failure… Service any good old amplifier and it can sound like new, and compete (beat) new amplifiers on performance vs price!
Hi. thanks for your comment, there has been no modifiying at all done to these amps, so yes they may well have components that need replacing. This was just to give an idea if you went out today and bought one how would they sound / what you could end up getting, though this would vary as well. Also just to end on what one I thought was the best and get other peoples comments that may have had or still have one of these. As most people that buy these amps now on ebay and places like that wont be doing any part replacing. I know that replacing caps etc can get the amp back to as new sounding, but also read on a lot of forums that it can also change the sound to much and some people reverting the amp back to how it was.
@@MichaelYates Interesting points. I have read of people putting old parts back in as they don't like the "new" sound (original sound?). If the parts are degraded it will be a big step change in performance. If you have owned the amplifier (or any equipment) for a long time, then you will be used to the current sound as the degradation will be gradual, the change back will not!
@@MrPwzj This is so true, a bit like not having glasses then suddenly when getting a pair for the fisrt time, what a difference. Thanks
I have the AUDIOLAB 8000a and Cambridge A1mk3
I find A1mk3 sounds better in terms of vocals - it sounds sweet and I can listen to it even for a whole day
On the other hand AUDIOLAB may have more details, cleaner and tighter bass, and manages the sound better
- AUDIOLAB has a little more details, cleaner and crisp sounds.
- Cambridge A1mk3 sounds overall more pleasant for me - but bass is not tight and less details, but sounds softer.
Great review, as always.
Thanks for the comment
Great video. Really enjoyed it!
Thanks Paul, brings back some memories the NAD and the Mordaunt Shorts
i had a NAD 3020 back in 1981which i remember sounded amazing then, esp.with the power amp - unfortunately i moved on to other amps (as you do!) but to cut a long story short i recently bought a serviced and recapped 3020 which is currently my favourite, like meeting up with an old friend, as you say not supposed to be the most detailed sound (i noticed plenty of brightness and detail in there to my old ears) but there is a fullness, prescence and warmth which seems to be missing on many modern amps, very clear no fuzziness, VERY good on old albums and also on many recent albums (even CD) in many cases it even sounded more enjoyable than my Rega Brio which in comparison sounded a little bright and distant, the NAD 3020 seems to smooth out any rough edges without loss of brightness and gave a much better prescence to the sound, sound stage seems fine for a smallish room (12'x 24') i will do more tests in the future but really enjoying my old analogue sound again - all day long!
Saying all that i must impress on readers the importance of servicing and recapping amps of 40+ years old - components deteriorate with age and dragging an old amp out of the loft and expecting it to sound good as new is just not possible - Hi Fi equipment needs the least amount of maintenance than most things, so give it a chance! 😍
Thanks for the comment and think pretty much the same its hard to expect these old amps to sound as good as they did when new unless they have a decent service and some old caps replaced as well as any noisy transistors.
Now some time after this review I have sized down a little and the AudioLab 8000 has gone, though a good amp it just got a little boring over long plays. There is just something about good ols vintage sound even if a little detail is missing.
yes i kept going back to the 3020 because of the simple reason that it is involving, never missed any detail from it though, has maximum wife approval too. (-:
use something like a Bosch laser room measurement, has memory, can install the positions where the microphone is and setting up your speakers.
not sure why the audiolab should be lean that could be to do with ageing components nothing's modernised? reviews i heard never say anything bad about the bass and actually say the bass is good? so I don't know!
recordings misleading they never give you any information only if it's done professionally with quality equipment.
can you do me a test!? can you get the audiolab pre out and connect it to the NAD Poweramp in, this could be an interesting test and try it with the A&R a60 as well. you'll be pleasantly surprised probably!
unfortunately I do not have top quailty recording equipment and would not be in my interest to get some at the moment. If I was as popular as say Techmoan then it would be worth while. Hopefully my recording might just give some slight indication. The bass on the audiolab is nice and its well defind, the overall sound of the audiolab was just had a little more relaxed smoother sound than the other 2 making it sound maybe a little leaner. I have just sent Ditton Works the NAD but if I get another someday I will try the pre amp swaps vica versa with the 8000a
@@MichaelYates ok
Nice review as always, Michael, and you've made me all the more keen to get hold of an A60!
Having come to much the same conclusions about the NAD 7020 receiver as you did with the 3020 amp, it got me wondering: could the 3020 be the root cause of the "vintage sound" that many reviewers refer to? After all, collecting 40-year-old gear is a bit of a niche-within-a-niche pursuit, so how many such amps has the typical modern-gear reviewer actually auditioned? My hunch is they follow the received wisdom that the 3020 is a classic vintage amp, so they assume it's typical of the era and get one.
My experience, FWIW - based mostly on Japanese vintage amps and receivers - has been that detail and a sense of space are absolutely not the sole preserve of today's amps. What do you reckon?
Yes I suppose when you mention a vintage amp here in the UK to people of my age the NAD 3020 whould come to mind. I had one so did a few mates at the time, were there was not places like the internet we all when out and bought a copy of a HiFi mag and there it was for little money an amp with rave reviews. At the moment my taste is for an amp with nice space and that touch of airyness, though 40 years ago I would have fell into that bass and high treble camp maybe.
I haven't heard the A60 but Nad 3020 for me ( Had Audiolab gear)
Three great amps. as you say this will be all down to taste. To me the Nad and A60 both have that as they say Vintage sound while the 8000a has the more newer refind transistor sound a more purest sound. I think I would prefer the A60
Thanks for the comment, much appriciated
Ive had the Nad twice , first time great amp around 1995 , second , i upgraded sold it .
Around 2003 bought another had nothing but proplems taken it back and forward to the shop .
And i nearly bought another one of ebay last week for 130 , offered after the sale .
I most likely the same as everyone else i want more or better.
15 years ago a bandmate was visiting uk just after we finished a season on a hotel to the islands.
He brought back plenty of stuff for his home studio, and for me, a NAD 304 paired with some Mission 700 speakers.
Never thought about replacing that amp. Wonder how it would compare to a 3020 though.
Great video.
PS: I have the joy of fixing it myself as tech is my daytime job.
Interestingly, that amp plays really well with anything digital attached icluding dac's.
Much would depend on the speakers, I for example use Tannoy DC3000's and TDL Studio 1's. All these amp's would drive the Tannoy's, but the TDL's would much prefer the Audiolab's better current delivery at low impedances. As it happens, I'm rather fond of the Audiolab sound, over the years I have upgraded from an 8000A to 8000C/8000P. then to 8000Q/2 x 8000M's. No plans to ever change them, or the speakers :).
I'm still using my Audiolab 8000A ( IMHO sounds better than the modern Chinese built audiolab amp)
It's a great amp, thanks for commenting John
Watching your video made me smile, my primary system is an 8000a paired with Tannoy 609s, still haven't found anything better for sensible money. This pair replaced a system of a NAD 3020i and Wharfdale Diamond IVs, which I still use in a smaller room. For a laugh try connecting the pre amp stage of the Nad into the power stage of the Audiolab, I always felt an improvement in sound, but the Phono stage and headphone amp in the Audiolab are some much better than the Nad. I just wish the Audiolab had the low level switch of the Nad.
Thanks for taking time to comment Simon and for reminding me I must get some Tannoys on the channel soon
Thank you for the this great series mike it must of taken a heap of time and effort .
Ended up a bit more involved than I thought. But was good fun. Thanks Peter for watching.
i had a nad 3020e for my original hifi in 1980s.i never was satisfied with that systems sound..i now use a fosi audio bt20a on my pc system using same wharefedale speakers and i actually find it sounds better.
I've been trying out the Fosi Audio BT20a pro and the V3. I can't stand either of them. Characterless, dull, muddy and woefully underpowered, especially given their power ratings. I really wanted to like them because of all the hype. Both have been sent back and I'm happily listening to my Quad 303 again
Well detailed review Michael. Thanks for your honest opinion about the three amps. Having owned all three but using a turntable only I would put the Nad first then A60 and last the Audiolab. I never got on with the Audiolab's sound finding it a bit too creamy without the sparkle. I wonder where you would have placed those amps if you'd been using a turntable. The Audiolab 8000S was a step up from the A but I've never heard it.
Thanks David, how I forgot to hook up the turntable I dont know. The Nad's off to Ditton Works now but if I get another then the Vinyl test seems a good idea.
That's interesting David (the lack of sparkle). My Dad bought an 8000A in the late '90s, and we both really liked it (it's actually setup in my lounge now). I've had an 8000S and its power-matched partner the 8000SX power amp since around 2006. I've never A/B'd them against the A, but there's definitely a house sound. I tend to bi-amp the S and SX into a small pair of Neat floorstanders, and they're really excellent in that setup (no further upgrades required, I'm done). They're certainly not short of weight in the bottom end, and there's a lovely tone.
I've tried the 8000S with B&W CDM-1's (a more clinical speaker) and that wasn't so much fun (though that was with silver speaker cables, which won't have helped). So I think speaker + cable pairing is key. I've read that the A is slightly warmer than the S, which I must investigate some time. I can imagine there's something in it - I heard the A through the same B&W speakers for years (in a well damped room) and that sounded great. A cable change (to fairly nice QED copper) was required to get a sweet treble though.
@@GrahamAtDesk I bought the 8000A in cash converters in the late 90s I think for £75. From what I remember of it at the time ( and I've owned A&R A60 and the Nad 3020 ) the 8000A sounded slightly rolled off in the upper treble range with warmth to the sound that I just couldn't get on with. It seemed I was missing something with the music.
Bearing in mind that I was using a Thorens TD150 at the time and relied heavily on the three amps phono stages because I didn't have any other ancillaries. I seem to remember thinking that I preferred the phono stage of the 3020 to the two others simply because it gave the most 'shine and sparkle' to the music I was listening to at the time.
Maybe it was that the A60 and the Audiolab are British amps and legend (or hi-fi mag folklore) has it that British amps tend to have a drier more warmer sound than their Japanese contemporaries. Although saying that, I've owned a Mission Cyrus1 original and the treble in that thing was enough to take your fillings out! There's no doubt that the Audiolab was more beefier and dynamic than the Nad but I seemed to think that I was missing cymbal attack etc through the Audiolab, which then I passed on to my son for his Xbox gaming. And I sold the A60 to a mate because the Din sockets were a pain.
I haven't tried the 8000S but have heard good reports about it.
@@davidmee7239 Interesting info, thanks. I've been pondering getting a 3020, but I've already got a Kenwood 3020SE (which was all the rage when I was a teenager), and they do take up a fair amount of space! It's tempting though...
@@GrahamAtDesk I never did get a Kenwood 3020SE. Seem to recall Richer Sounds selling them for £69 at the end of their run. Mid-nineties?
If you do get a Nad, beware of the switch-on thump. It's normal with these amps. I think the 3120 had no tone controls but was identical to the 3020 internally.
Nice review thanks!
Thanks Robert, have a great Christmas and New Year
Audiolab
Hi Michael, I have a bit of an issue with a old record player/short and medium range radio I am getting a buzzing noise coming out of the speakers which are part of the unit, it doesn't matter if its on radio or record mode (without a record or the motor spinning, or if on battery mode or plugged into mains..) its worse on the right hand speaker (they are controlled individually too) unfortunately I am a complete novice at this type of thing and being a mechanical engineer... electronics are like voodoo magic to me.. its a National Super Phonic FM-AM 13-Transistor Radio Phonograph SG-725FL... hopefully you can help!
Hi.. Not that easy sorting problems out without having the unit in front of me and even then I am only really intermediate. But as its a buzzing sound rather than popping is coming out of both speakers and if you say its on both inputs radio and record and with battery or mains use. Then it sounds like a grounding issue. I would clean all the input select switchs ( with contact cleaner ) also the volume control. Check for any dry joints on the circuit board, any wiring that looks loose. Also make sure the unit is not near another appliance that might be interfearing with it.
@@MichaelYates I wouldn't mind discussing it in a private place I'm a complete beginner compared to you I could also share photos too it's a very pretty thing to look at
I was rooting in my garage and found a Kenwood KA1010,I,d completely forgotten about.
Does anyone rate these?
Where is the sound demo?
unfortunately I did some full track demo's but then TH-cam did not like me playing the same tracks over and over again so I took them down. I should have just done some small segments on reflection
a bit suprised by your statement about the nad! your demo"s showed clearly with wharfedale diamond3 that nad 3020 has more holographic depth and air than the others,however a little laid back admittetly well ofcourse to my ears!
this is great. What strange world have I just entered?! I'm looking to get a nice sounding set up so thinking the Audiolab - what speakers would you recommend and would it all sound ok playing youtube as well as CDs? Complete novice into the black hole - one step at a time. Thanks in advance if anyone has advice! I know it's all about budget and mines pretty tight - I just need to listen to something rich, soothing and half decent x
Hi, thanks for the comment, the Audiolab is a fine sounding unit and pretty much at the top of the pile for an amplifier on my budget channel. As I have set up the channel as it is at the moment for HiFi seperates costing less than £200 here in th UK and this just about falls in. But the speakers I have aquired and reviewed on the channel are a lot less than the £100 and I feel that a chat with Kevin at Ditton Works as he is an expert on speakers would lead you in the right direction to get the most out of this amplifier. th-cam.com/channels/aZXNv-Z3Q4QSqk82uiZk2Q.html
Vintage NAD amplifiers cook themselves. This has nothing to do with the sound, but there was some horrendous engineering there. I think there were safety problems too.
Live dangerously 😂
Witam Pana mam pytanie mam audiolab 8000a i z tyłu wejscie do samej końcówki mocy z oznaczeniem power amp jak podepnę odtwarzacz z regulacją głosu nic nie słychać co to może być te wejscie jest jakby nieczynne
Mimo że jest tam wyjście przedwzmacniacza i wzmacniacz mocy, oba są połączone wewnątrz, więc jeśli podłączysz do wejścia wzmacniacza mocy, nic nie usłyszysz.
W przeciwieństwie do Nad 3020 lub podobnych wzmacniaczy z wejściami i wyjściami, gdzie chcesz.
dzieki za odpowiedz to trzeba w srodku rozlaczyc peamp z koncowka@@MichaelYates
@@marek7125 Tak
The nad 3130 is a better amplifier
I do not understand what are you saying..
Try subtitles instead of being cheeky, maybe? Or go to another channel?😉
heavy accent!
@@frankvanhelvert6231 Yes, I think you will have, judging by your name. 😉
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox glad these accents are still alive! in my country they are nearly evaporated!
@@frankvanhelvert6231Woosh. Many accents still going strong in the UK, you should hear some of the Scottish accents, you would definitely need subtitles. 😉
Happy 🎶 listening.