There is a psychological reason why it goes in 3s. When give the option of 2 a majority will buy the cheaper one, but if you leave those prices alone and add a 3rd more expensive option the majority now pick the one in the middle. It's just another trick to get more money out of you.
While there are 3 choices only one is real. Phase 3 is alpha 2, or at least what a2 claimed it was going to be before they realized oh shut guys we're not going to make 2024 let's segment it into phases and make more money while (lol and I like this word, Steven uses it.) "Obfuscate" the reason.
Remember when game tester was a job you got paid for? Now you pay them to test their games and people are happy with that. Then we wonder why 90% of games suck, because that's where the bar is now.
even more so, MMOs had alphas and betas you had to apply for to be admitted into. You had to prove you were a beta tester for other games/MMOs and demonstrate your activity level in providing feedback, even so much as providing your username on the equivalent game's forums.
It's still a job. Public testing is something completely different from actual QA. You're not going to get these random gamers to fill out real bug reports with steps to reproduce, attach video and screenshots of the problem and use correct terms so that the dev ending up reading it later can make sense of it.
You know we live in the twilight zone when instead of companies paying people to test their games they are charging outrageous amounts of money for the privilege of limited time access to an alpha test.
Yeah.. I've been saying this a lot in other videos but i always get attacked back because according to the simps, they're helping to "fund" the development of the game and their feedback is crucial.
and then we have, beta 1, beta 2 , beta 3, server test 1, server test 2, last technical test, actually last technical test, and then 3 phases of early access, and then 30$ a month for the sub
Did your random indie developer do this for 200k people and also have custom server tech for their MMORPG? or was it stardew valley made by 1 dude? big difference there.
Worst Part is when accused of doing what star citizen has done Steven has replied " We aren't like SC we have a plan and aren't going to take forever to come out....."..7+ years later a engine change and many delays and missed dates later and the exact same super expensive packages later..yeah right Steven.
It is prophesized that come the end of days, the almighty Steven Sherrif and Chris Roberts will battle it out - while Mark Jacobs jerks off in the background
Star Citizen cost you 45$ to join and you still get amazing game, in the past 8 years 'AAA' games took your 60$-70$ and gave you shit product SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, yeah, look at it that way. i bought diablo 4 for 70$ and i stop playing after 1 month.
For real my current wip game I hemmed and hawed about if I should charge 10 or 15 i couldn't decide so I had my wife pick. Because I feel bad asking for money but I also want to eventually do this full time lol
@@G.Giorgio No they couldn't, as indie/AA/AAA is a category based on investment on a project. This game has blown way past what would be considered an "indie budget" and is most likely in the AAA territory.
@@MrJackets they already changed the keys to give beta access so nice try. Again you are paying to invest in the game if you wanted extra shit you should have gotten the earlier supporter packs. These weren't even planned to be buyable but the community begged for them. Now they cry that it costs money to run servers.
like all mmo fans; incresibly guligle. not to mention toxic positivity and cult like behavior. honestly let them have their dead genre. 10 year alpha for a world of warcraft reskin. mmo fans deserve to keep being scammed.
It's like" I want you to pay me $140 to work for me for free, and also creators please be our PR for free, also run marketing for us for free." Well hell, ashes, you want me to boot up unity tutorials and make the damn thing for you as well?
@@Dreadskull91 You literally had to buy the game(BG3) to test for them when they went into early access for the purpose of feedback and data gathering. Single player games cost more or less nothin(relative) to test with massive amounts of players, MMOs are super expensive to test with an expected amount of players to be useful, which is why it is more or less never done until after it is released, with a PTR for paying and active players. It's fine that people want to not support it and wait for release. Everything is a tradeoff, this is the cost of not having external companies/investors telling them what to do. This testing isn't required, but they want to do it, but the only way to justify the cost of having servers active for a large playerbase and devs/support people to maintain and update it alongside development, is for those that want it to pay into it. I do wish they spoke about this aspect when making these decisions.
@@Kimskelbg3 ea was still a good prodict and had like 30 hours of content. Oh yeah, and you actually OWNED THE FUCKING GAME unlike the horseshit they're trying to do with aoc. They just arent comparable situations beyond a surface level.
Claiming they want "testers" is BS. What they are saying that "testing" is worth to them is $-120 per tester, therefore the quality of the "testing" will be $-120. You'll get what you pay for, and in this case, they pay in the negatives. If it were true that the alpha testers are important to the company and supposedly bring value to the company, why isn't it worth paying for (for them)? A useful rule to live by is never to work for someone who doesn't value you and your work. If the work you're doing isn't worth anything for them, why do they want you to do it?
I did QA as a job in video games for a while. Was shit pay, but was something I opted into with my eyes open. Blindsiding people like these devs have done in the past, is just a scummy way to not have to pay (already shit wages) for people to do proper testing.
It's not work. Neither you nor any other gaming moron in this comment section has any qualification to be testing any game nor to comment on the process. Early access is ONLY there so that they can get feedback from varied systems in order to account for more bugs and edge-cases than if they just released and hoped for the best. Neither you nor any other gaming moron in this comment section has any value in the game development industry, you are JUST a customer.
@@neilochThey literally stated "It's already funded" since BEFORE the kickstarter. The kickstarter was just to check demand. There is a lot to criticise, but they literally have NEVER said "We need more funds"
@@Reac2 cute you think them saying its funded and not saying they need more funds is 'proof.' "its going great because they said so" lol. The game has been in "kickstarter" mode for literally years. Cope.
Remember when computer systems were pretty much the same, like consoles, so it was much easier to account for bugs and edge-cases? Remember when games were so simple that the complexity of the bugs were much lower? No, you don't. Because you don't fucking think before you open your mouth. You know NOTHING about game development, you are not qualified to talk about it.
Some corners of the game development space are really just grotesque. In a mindless desire for 'transparency' for transparency's sake, we've really reached a place where people are paying for the privelege of QA'ing a game that might in the worse case never come out. And the devs have the temerity to smile down the camera and guffaw as they gaslight their supporters into thinking that this is normal and fine.
I agree. What's worse is that by getting people to pay them for alpha access will lower the likelihood of the full game coming out. The more money the studio gets before release, the lower the incentive they have to actually fully releasing it. It's, as you so beautifully put it, grotesque.
I feel like if the alpha costs $120, I probably can't afford to play the game when it releases. I can only imagine the predatory monetization that will, likely, be in-place at release.
@Touchin-Grass Yeah, that's what they said, and then they do this. I tend to believe actions and not words. If they can do it now they can do it later.
@@Touchin-Grassso if the expected amount of players to keep it afloat dont come what will happen? Even wow and final fantasy charge per new zones apart from the sub
@@Touchin-Grass You must be unfamiliar with Steven, if you're taking him at his word with evidence shown to be against the contrary. You're deluding yourself into thinking there won't be predatory practices. The dude was notorious for being a POS, scamming, and taking advantage of people in the AA community for monetary value. But I don't expect people who didn't look into this guy to have no idea about his history. The game will have predatory practices, on top of a sub, along with fleecing people every testing phase for 120 bucks. This is bad on so many levels because this will set a precedent for all developers to follow in general. Regardless if the game is good or bad, it's bad enough being charged 70-80 bucks per triple A release. Now people are finding any way to cope and defending a practice that shouldn't even exist in a first place. No box price or not, it's irrelevant to the situation.
So the workers at the studio are afraid of telling the truth to Steven. So, Steven is either stupid and gave us a PR justification, or he is testing how dumb his costumers are, to then adjust his prices in the future.
So I actually applied to work here a few years ago. I was given 4 different interviews and then at my final interview with Steven, got ghosted. He told me he would send over paperwork for onboarding in a few weeks, but I never heard back. I was messed up for a long time, but I'm in a much better place now. Looks like I dodged a bullet.
"I can't believe they said this on video" Kira, my Dood, don't you know how Modern Videos work? Broadcast, Recorded, Retrievable, Repayable... NEVER HAPPENED. Ask any politician. Ask Boogie. Ask DSP ffs.
For those who don't know, Steven Sharif made is money in an MLM scam. So, yeah, he's a rich scammer. That's taking money for something he has no background in...
Yeah I dont get it, playing alphas and betas just eats into your enjoyment of the released product, you can never have that wonder of being in a new game for the first time twice, even if you experienced it in alpha you'll have spoiled some of the magic of exploring a new game for the first time to some extent. I'm sure the people who want into an alpha or beta are also the people who watch 20 guides on every aspect of a game before they've even played it though so I guess it just doesnt matter to them. I think games are much more fun if you go in blind
because there is a portion of MMO gamers that have severe FOMO, and are violently desperate for something new. It's just basic exploitation of addicts.
There isn't going to be a "finished product" for this game. This here is the death rattle of the game, they're looking to fleece the rubes for as much as they can before they shutter the project and walk away with the money.
Am I crazy, or the only one that noticed they listed "Alpha two first wave item" all three times? Imagine paying enough attention to update the cost of them but not the actual wording? Or am I smokin that shit again.
It is either they are greedy af or they have financial problem to complete the game which is very concerning. With business tactic like this.. the developers have no intention to finish the game anytime sooner.. or later.
If it included access to the full game, like "you get access to everything from alpha to full release" AND included "you get to make a small permenant mark on the world" like having an NPC named after you or you get to create a quest, I think that's the only time it'd be worth it to pay for something like this when it costs MORE THEN TRIPLE A FULL RELEASES. Reward the people willing to pay extra to be there from the beginning. Or make the typical collector's edition but it's exclusive to people who bought in early. I don't understand the financial decisions these people are making. 😂
They should have stopped showing stuff long ago. Launch the kickstarter, show a couple of hype generating trailers and whatnot - then stop. Let people forget about it until you have something good. Building it alongside the community, daily updates and all sounds nice but it just doesn't work when it comes to marketting. People are fatigued about this game, and most have stopped caring entirely. Soon there will be no one left.
They are doing daily updates? That sounds pointless. Weekly maybe but quarterly would be more reasonable because how much progress is happening on a daily basis?
@@MorbidEel Every other day I see a community post on youtube showcasing the most minimal addition to the game, sometimes even just concept art - not to mention the AMAs. How people still have questions to ask is truly incredible
Nah, it's like TH-cam channels and MMOs who stayed the same and afloat for the last 10 years. People get tired, leave and come back it 2 years, repeat. People will not get tired of AOC permanently... That's just stupid to say. Is humanity tired of McDonald's yet? Or Walmart? They are open 24 hours you know. The market self regulates
@Reac2 Not permanently, no. But it is in their best interest to make sure the market is at its peak right before the big release. There's no guarantee Ashed of Creation will be a staple name like McDonald's or Wallmart
Any studio that sells shit in a game before that game is even released is a huge red flag that they can not be trusted. This and Star Citizen have exploited their customers for YEARS and the copium the fan boys smoke is crazy.
Also, this suspiciously feels like scam, like those people who sells overpriced product before suddenly escape/ closing their company so people can't sue Btw, I'm sure there's correct term for this kind of scam, I'm just not that fluent
Star Citizen has always been playable since 2015, three years after they started development in 2012 for only $45. Even sooner if you count the social module or hangar module. Completely different than seven years of development with only a alpha one so far to show for it and no open servers for testing.
@@Treecko8O Sir, are you so stupid that you mentioned the years and haven't noticed that we're over A DECADE later and still nothing has been shown for it?
When idiots stop buying it. If there's no demand, there's no supply. We can hate these companies all we want, but there are A LOT of people enabling it.
Kira is right on the money for the most part. He is absolutely wrong about “no one should care”. The MMO community for the last decade or so has been milked for every single dime these companies can drain from us. Yes, if you got the money, and you hate money, by all means give it to this scammer. HOWEVER, there are those players who DO NOT KNOW they are getting scammed. As a community, WE ALL should try to get that information to ALL players. If no one takes a stand, WE ALL LOSE.
He is sort of right. It is not a topic to get mad about because smart people will decide things for themselves. You cannot convince an idiot that he has been scammed, as well.
I just don't agree that anyone is being scammed here. As someone who covers scams for a living essentially, where's the scam? They're clearly making a game, and if I thought that it would change anything I'd rally against it and say "no one give them money", but we're 15 years too late for that. Nothing you do, nothing I say or do, will change a thing. I've tried. Give it a go mate, let me know how you change the industry. People will be milked, because they are cattle. They'll continue, the devs will continue, and life goes on. The cows like to be milked, remember. They're not being scammed by this, they're being sold garbage in my opinion. But read through some of their community, read through some of these comment posts. They love it. Who are we to stop them enjoying being milked? Again, we won't change the industry.
@@kirareacts Sad but true, every time someone says "vote with your wallet" you get far too many people voting in favor of the shitty option that its just become a circus at this point. Better lean back and enjoy the trashfire, better for the mental health.
Testers Don't have to like a game to test it properly. Selling testing is buying fanboys. You want people who will pick the game apart if you want it to be good. IMO
Imagine paying a company twice the price of a full price game for the privlage to work as a QA tester for them. Especially when MMO failure to launch rate is greater than 50% If you bought an alpha key, I highly suggest you contact your financial services and demand a chargeback because you have been scammed.
You also have to keep in mind that any 'tester' that has already paid over 100 bucks is so emotionally invested in wanting this to be a good game and investment that they will not be able to test the game properly. They will happily ignore bugs or the gameplay not being fun, or (looking at star citizen here) it not being a working game at all.
Brain drain is right. I really think these super public open development games do a disservice to themselves. I want a game to new and interesting when I start playing, can't have that if you see every little detail for years
If something is inherently good then spoilers usually don't matter at all. And if spoilers make the gameplay less fun, then that directly means the replayability is low. Which is very bad for an MMORPG
I don't understand. Didn't people pay full price on kickstarter to fund and purchase this game half a decade ago? Where is the game, and why are they charging people hundreds of dollars now to do paid work for them? Smells hella scammy to me.
its most likely that kickstart money is spent on dev time already with the scope creep they have done in the past 3 years. trying to do cool things cost money
Over a decade of professional testing experience (not in gaming but multiple other industries for range of company sizes) this is bonkers. I'm paying you to give you my time so you can get your product moved on a bit. I get people want a game they are invested in but if they still have multiple phases this far along and that 'roadmap' is anything to be believed, they are so far off showing anything of a finished product, you are pissing your hard earned money into a hole. They have even said "there is nothing you are missing out on if you don't get involved and all progress will not carry through to the game anyway" If they said what it was and they need more money then if it was in anyway involved I'd consider doing it if i had any horse in the race but his seems like they have no respect for anyone's time or dedication they are trying to get involved, then want to me pay them to do the work for them. The issue i have is not the pay to work scheme, people who are fans will do it , its the fact they are relying on this BUT go out of their way to cover the real point - they want/need money. At least be honest. If anyone wants to do this you can join a crowd testing platform/company and get paid to find bugs in other software (something they could easily do but that costs THEM not you so its nothing to do with testing. They themselves say is a pointless exercise in terms of final product as you don't get any of that. TBH honest to be a tester is more than turning up and playing a game in the hope you stumble across problems -that works for exploratory testing but the quality of "testers" selected purely by who will part with money will be so vast and wide there is no guarantee that anything intricate or of any significant value would be found but glaring under the hood errors could nad would likely go completely missed. This tells me they aren't in it for the results. You have to understand how the product works to be able to able to pick it apart and test it's boundaries - they aren't going to share that and the testers wouldn't understand the technicalities of it having never done testing before. Exploratory testing has it's place but its only ever a small part of the overall test process. That usually comes later on in the product's dev cycle, at the point of fix and polish and 99% of the time only very minor or cosmetic enhancements are needed at that point (which is why crowd testing with potential users would be at beta, where you are already over the functional tests of the alpha and yo don't need seasoned testers to find surface level issue, feedback on user journey improvements, UI updates etc etc. You are just looking at coverage of the product at that point and throwing the net as wide as possible by simply throwing eyes and bodies at it. In short, this test cycle would uncover surface level issues only - you are unlikely to find anything big that actually matters at this stage which is what you are really looking for from a dev perspective. At the alpha stage in product life cycle you are still very much in the nuts and bolts of it - it;s a basic functioning prototype hammering out network performance, and all sorts of optimisations. Inexperienced people participating in a no-fixed agenda test cycle with no actual purpose to the testing at alpha means the only guaranteed outcome is they get what they want as a company. Your time and your money, with zero commitment to you that this will actually do anything to move the product on. Most importantly if this under the covers money extraction without saying it attitude is the norm that tells me enough about their attitude to running the company, regardless of the product and how it is now. Seems like they are taking advantage of their own continuing-to-pay loyal customers, which also makes no business sense. Those dedicated to our project people are the exact customers you WANT onside and need to keep them that way for when you product comes out long term. Unless of course that's so far away from the company perspective the users will already be experiencing the sunk cost fallacy by that point so the company continues to benefit from those users anyway. Ethically i don' t like it. Morally i don't like it and their technical approach and reasons? i don't like it. It seems disingenuous to be suggesting selling a test phase to people who don't understand they just hearing "testing" and think they can add some real value. Im not saying they can't im saying its a stupid and ineffecient way to progress anything in Alpha. Testing is great but its about what you do and when. This seems al backwards to me or this simply isn't in alpha but they are saying it is. If it's alpha you'd be crowd sourcing professionals or widening your internal scope of QA numbers not selling public access. At this point you'd want the testers to have access to technincal documentation, release pipeline, performance indicators and access directly to the developers, to name jsut a few. So adding to all that. as Kira says, the real motivation they just want money but won't say. Its that lack of real transparency that means i don't trust anything they say now or in the future or how many other alpha phases they will have. Putting the whole game aside, the whole business approach and selling testing to people who have no idea how to test is enough to tell me results do'n't matter and that'd put me off and I'd be giving this whole project a wide birth full stop.
If you ask people to pay you to test your game, instead of you paying people to be testers, then you populate your tester pool with people who are already bought-in as fans of your upcoming title instead of people who are professional unbiased testers. Your test results are going to be so terribly skew if you have that kind of overlap between the community of your testers and the community of your defenders.
As a gamer you don’t want this kind of thing become normalized in paying for Alpha Testing which is ludicrous and against your better judgement of this sort of thing. If this sort of thing is successful for AoC then other game studios can take note and follow suit. It won’t be all of them, but some amount of other studios can follow this as an early money grab to recoup cost and in some cases, never even finish their game. Don’t normalize this kind of BS in paying for Alpha Testing!
Their emphasis on this being a "testing" focus is absolutely disingenuous if not outright lying. If they were interested in feedback they would want a carefully selected cross section of players to get a balanced opinion of game elements, mechanics etc... If they were interested in testing the game performance they would want to select testers based on a selection of hardware configurations. If they base the game on feedback from a group of people willing to spend 120 dollars for an alpha key it's probably not a game I'm going to be interested in but let's be real...this is about money not testing. I have long since checked out on this game. I just delete the constant emails they send me with new skins to purchase. I regret supporting this game long ago. Maybe it ends up being a good game in the end but I have long since kissed my 80 bucks goodbye and ceased caring what happens.
"If they were interested in feedback they would want a carefully selected cross section of players to get a balanced opinion of game elements, mechanics etc.." Here's why they are not doing that and not giving free access to alpha test They want people with money playing the game, they are not interested in the average random who might just buy sub time and be done with it, they want people who will throw hundreds at the game That's what will shape the game, greed, they will make a game to please whale.
@@claire6650 That's why I said if they are actually taking feedback from a group that has self-selected as a group with "whale" characteristics then this isn't a game I'm interested in because I don't value their opinion or feedback and don't believe they will help steer the game in a positive direction.
What’s hilarious is all the cult members are defending them, as spending $120 means you only get serious “testers” It’s insanity, they’re like a cult huffing copium 24/7
they already have QA testers. but they want warm bodies basically for stress testing, more or less - that's the real reason. they have that price-tag because the initial price to even get into the alpha 2 was about 150$.
"tHiS oNe Is GoInG tO bE dIfFeReNt gUyS!" You know how many times I've heard that over the years with this game?! They NEED Alpha testers, so they're charging people to Alpha test their game. Brilliant. Thank goodness there are suckers willing to do that.
Let me preface this by saying I am not accusing anyone of physical abuse, nor am I equating the severity of pay-to-test alphas and physical abuse. However, I cannot help but feel an uneasy familiarity with the whole "It'll be different this time/with me" routine. Spoiler- it usually isn't different and the only good choice is to get out and stay away if you can.
I agree with you, what actually pissed me off was the condescending way he put it across its basically "listen up morons" you are greedy or just need more money at least don't gaslight your audience and be honest cause everyone sees right through this bs
I backed their Kickstarter - I have Alpha 1, 2, and Beta access from back in the day. I cannot believe they are now selling packages that are Alpha only keys - for over $100 especially with all the Alpha and Beta testers that are already signed up.... This smells bad like that juicy fart in a steam filled locker room.
Those diehard fans are justifying that $120 is not that bad at all since it actually contains access to all 3 alpha phases and the beta. But still, this doesn't make sense. lol EDIT: Can confirm, sunk-cost fallacy is deep.
And 15 for in game currency when it comes out and 1 month subscription. If you enjoy testing this’ll be amazing. Testing will be 1.5 years at the least. It’ll cost $5 a month for entertainment for testers for just the alpha. the longer alpha and beta runs the cheaper it gets.
@@DJ_Treu CoD is the best AAA or AA arcade shooter on the market. No other company comes close in terms of scope and quality. I don't know what you are on about. You should probably try CoD it's improved since MW2 original, and been good since cold war. And wow is where it is because it has almost every new MMORPG feature besides sandbox.
@@skeithaseoxdyou are wrong. If you buy an alpha key you get access to beta as well until the game releases. They made a statement after last video for clarification.
This is possible because people don't know their classics... 😁 So when Tom Sawyer had to paint the fence as punishment, he tricked other kids to pay him for the priviledge of painting it for him. This is that irl... 🤣🤣🤣
Imagine paying Walmart to be hired as consultant on anything rather them paying you. I have... what's it called when you're positive and hopeful but cautious? Well, I am that. But you would never be able to gaslight me into thinking that me paying you to try out your service or product is something I have to do and/or thank you for. I agree that is not our money so not our problem, but I do think it does matter because overall sets a precedent or extends the ones we have. FIFA making 1 billion in stupid cards shouldn't matter to us, because is not our money. Yet, that is the state of the industry and eventually it will affect us. Same thing when a coworker is being abused but you don't do anything for whatever reason. If they do that to them, they totally could do it to you. It's not directly comparable, but it's the premise and the mindset that should matter. At this point is too late, and Star Citizen and AoC proved people will be stupid enough to be guinea pigs / rat labs for them.
That said, as counter argument for the "barrier" which they created... some people might REALLY want to be able to test it and give feedback, and help the game grow and get developed. That said, a dude that paid 120 dollars for it will probably take it very seriously, especially if there's an NDA and whatnot... they'll actually test shit and "get their money's worth". So I am assuming that besides of "needing money" or lowering costs in general even if they do not need the money, they are also putting the sunk cost that was already maybe about time or emotional, now into money as well. And a big amount. This does not sound like a "counter argument" or in favor of them doing so, but while stating they "do not need to buy it", whomever does, is on their own decision of perhaps, "investing themselves" into "ensuring the game has funding and testing and gets made" for their enjoyment in the future. (all of this is a big hypothetical as I have no evidence of anything)
Again, the same fucking comment from every idiot that knows nothing about game development. Games are much more complicated now, so to make it easier to run on the MANY different systems and OS's that exist, they need to gather information from those systems. Pretty fucking hard to do that when every gaming moron with 0 functioning brain cells just refuse to opt in to helping the development process that they said they were fucking interested in.
This guy talked such a big game about being player friendly only to turn around and sell alpha and beta testing for twice the normal price of a full game.
When people criticize AoC monetization, AoC defenders or the Copium consumer go to argument is, "nobody forcing you to buy" or "it's to support the game development".. While that reasoning is fine they fail to see the long term damage of supporting this type of greedy monetization to future MMOs.. Supporting this type of monetization will just encourage future game developer to copy what Star Citizen and AoC are doing... 1.Make grandiose promises 2.Upload shiny updates and future plans on youtube. 3. Sell Alpha keys... And if Alpha keys are selling what's the point of releasing the game.? Star Citizen is 13 year old and still in development, AoC is 7 years old and still in Alpha 2.. If Apha 2 keys are selling what's the point of going to Beta? The smart move is to sell Alpha 3 keys.. Many AoC defenders haven't realize it yet but they are ruining the future of MMO's.. They are creating the new meta of MMO development.. No need to complete an MMO in 5-6 years if you can sell Alpha keys for 10+ years.. For now the large gaming companies haven't noticed it yet but when they realize that they can make money selling Alpha keys and FOMO cosmetics for hundreds of dollars without even releasing a game, it would be a bloodbath. Just remember you were supporting this behavior, in the future it will be the norms.. So keep ignorantly defending this type of monetization, if were lucky maybe not only MMO but even single player games will sell Alpha keys too.. I bet GTA 7 will make billions before release if they sell alpha keys..
@@ryuno2097 You can absolutely do it without crowd funding, just get a proper money tank to invest. But this is what I mean, companies that think they can get by with patreon subs or a bit of crowd funding will end up there, being in "development" for ages and eventually fizzle out.
I remember paying around £10 for closed beta access to Path of Exile back in 2012. Guess what I'm still playing today? Yeah, not an MMO but PoE is the shining example of how game dev should be done. Looks like AoC has taken a leaf out of CIG's playbook - hopefully it will turn out a bit better than their grift, but doesn't look too good.
no server hosting costs - alone it cost the company 65c a month per concurrent player and they will have over 100,000 players playing for the next 4 years
@@SwapwareGames PoE definitely has server hosting costs, it is entirely online, and they have had upward of 100,000 concurrent users for around 10 years - breaking new records (for them) at the start of the current league three weeks ago with 350,000 concurrent players. Charging $100+ for an Alpha test is a big red flag, and smells very much of a desperate cash grab for a game that is seemingly stuck n development hell with very little sign of progress.
There is also a bit more context to paying for beta access to PoE. It wasn't there initially and it was just a lottery system but then there were people making accounts to get keys just to resell and IIRC there were people paying much more than 10 dollars/euros to those resellers. Given that situation it was better to offer an official option so the money goes to the devs and to set a price cap.
Honestly, just saying "development is expensive and this helps us out" and I wouldn't have a problem with this. They are very open with their development and try to be transparent... they shouldn't risk their reputation for stuff like this. This is basically their biggest strength and the thing that sets them apart from all the other Kickstarter MMOs.
I dont get the outrage. Like... werent they selling those Early Bird packs for years at this point? I always thought it was a consens that AoC is kinda the less outrageous Fantasy version of Star Citizen.
I really wonder how long it'll be for devs to start charging people to have voice imprints for AI to use to be in the game, instead of using VA entirely. Im sure plenty of people would be willing to pay a large amount of money to voice a character, and that kind of sucks. Maybe that would end up lowering the quality enough that it wouldnt be worth it, but its hard to say
I could do a maybe 2-3 hour comprehensive test of target features if they paid me a hundred bucks. You have to be insane to pay them for basically doing a tester job and huffing copium about having impact on the development. Remember the gameplay loop he described!
AoC will bleed its customers dry before we ever see an actual launch. I suspect paid mounts, housing and player cosmetics will slowly start being pushed out. So glad I've never been excited for this generic cash grab.
Shouldn't the playtester be paid? like a normal job, which it is. Also I need playtesters for my game. but it's a free demo, Paradisium on itch, it's very rough yet.
Cool! I'm going to check your game out. And I agree. Playtesters should either be paid or be unpaid but get the (test) product for free. And if there isn't an obligation to provide feedback (which it shouldn't after having to pay $120), they won't get reliable and useful data either.
I remember reading the adage "Don't pay to be a beta tester." Here they are asking people to pay to be an ALPHA tester. Usually alpha testers are paid to do the testing.
120 usd. was that not the cost of Star wars the old republic or was it the first run of Archage? man sort of Miss Archage or at least remember when XP gamer was taliing about it because they played the beta and it was like perfect. game launch and everything was changed for the worse and then it whent downhill. 25:00 the pay for tester is a ide that I sort of support (120 maybe not) what I mean whit this. I signed up for a few beta tests in my life (games) all for free and for half of them when it came to start beta testing I downloded the game and then never started it. one game I paid for and I played it because I paid for it and I did bug reports and all that. its the netflix feedback loop free netflix account watches 1 movie a year. paid montly sub on netflix watches at least 5 movies a month.
Seems a reasonable price to set depending on how many people you are wanting to join the test. If they wanted half as many people to join the test, they could have set it at $250 and it would be reasonable. You could say, well they could just select x amount of people but they would not be as invested. This ensures the people getting in are the ones that really want it. If this had an NDA I could see some reason to be outraged but honestly people who cry about this sort of thing are upset because they would like to play but not quite enough to pay the price.
I alpha and beta tested a bunch of MMO's between 2000 and 2010, back when I had too much time on my hands, and strangely didn't pay a dime for any of that! I applied to be a tester, and the devs selected people with hardware and time that they wanted. The idea of selling alpha access is crazy. Pure money grab.
3h before u uploaded your video, steven commented under their live stream update on youtube: My friends, we have heard the feedback regarding the new key packs, and we have made adjustments to address the concerns. First, the keys grant access to all Beta phases. Additionally, the keys provide a month of sub time and $15 in embers (cosmetic shop currency, no p2w or p2conviencence). We have also planned giveaways during the different phases. It is important to note, Alpha 2 will last at a minimum a year, potentially longer depending on iteration time necessary. These keys are intended to support the costs associated with running the alpha server for that time. The keys are not intended to be sold to people looking to play a game, but rather to support our development and help bring to life the vision of Ashes, with an opportunity to help inform that vision as passionate and invested testers.
They probably do have QAs for the game, just feels like a cash grab to me. Puts me off even wanting to try the game when it comes out now lol also sounds like they will sell beta access too.
Paying to do their job is crazy, what is also crazy is that they are doing this AGAIN, this is alpha 2. I wonder if they are going to move to Beta or if they suddenly decide to do Alpha 3 and re-sell access again LMAO
geeze, paying TWICE the full price of a modern game(on any platform but PS5) for the 'honor' of an unpaid alpha test for this one game. And just this one alpha test, if they do another alpha, or a beta, you gotta pay again! This is a scam, plain and simple.
Right there with you guys on becoming apathetic over the passage of time hearing about this game. At this point even getting coverage of it that is a rarity.
Just keep in mind that people were angry at games going up to $70 for a AAA game on release. Asking people to PAY to test your game and give feedback is insane, but asking them to pay a 'deluxe edition' price for it is just bat shit crazy. You don't even get access to the beta, lord knows how much they will charge for that, maybe $200. This will go down as one of those moments in games history that we look back on and think, 'why did some people do that?', just like buying the first horse armour cosmetic, paying for the first battle pass, paying for a game and then still paying for a monthly fee, paying for in-game currency, paying for loot boxes. None of them good for gamers. DO NOT PAY THIS. You are doing every gamer that comes after you a disservice if you do. This can not become the status quo and acceptable.
I believe they are charging due to the fact that people who purchased the starter packs might get upset if they spent to participate and someone else gets a hand out. Personally I think the prices are way to high and should have been closer to the $50 range. There could be other motives, but I believe that is the reason.
yeah pretty sure it was a pyramid scheme thing, but this is real game no doubt.. its just i have doubts it'll be released for long time and it'll be shit
The best part is that if no one pays they'll just have to start sending out free keys and asking people to test the game for them. Too bad people don't have more self control and think that playing a broken game. It's also telling that they already walked back the stance that this didn't provide access to the beta. That was just adding insult to injury, but people shouldn't be paying this regardless of that change.
Alpha 2 is slated to last 1 year per Steven, so this game is not coming out anytime soon. I do not think they will give away free keys, its just a cash grab to sustain development.
imagine old jim bob tries to sell you an incomplete pair of shoes he promises that they will be fully made in due time he says he will sweeten the deal by including some dye and stickers, nice he also says, that you could be a part of the exciting development process of finishing off the shoes all you have to do to be a part of something so exciting that future generations will write about is pay old jim bob the money for the "privilege" do you know what i would then say to old jim bob? something I can't say without my comment being censored
4:00 not only that but they break everything they said even with the "we don't make this for the money" mindset lol. I didn't care too much about the game ever since they said it would be open PVP and then showed the combat, but this stream was pure circus to watch
They did this shit on purpose, they gave themselves bad PR to walk it back and say they listen and hear the community.. Thats a well known tactic in sells.
22:20 This is what they say, but what they mean is 'we want to have grounds to sue you and therefore intimidate you into taking down anything we don't like'. Sure AAA space is somewhat different, but when indie devs are out here doing devlogs that tell you exactly how they are going to build the game while they are doing it... Nobody is going to steal your idea, the amount of effort and investment that would take to MAYBE capitalize on a new market while simultaneously being a worse product would be an insanely risky move. The right move for these kinds of grifters will always be to wait for someone else to expose a huge new market, doing all the marketing and hype generation first, then crap out something cheap that will be profitable off of even just a few foolish fish.
Say what you will about Ashes, but they obviously looked at the numbers, determined what profit they hoped to make (and they will profit at this price point), and used a supply and demand graph to set the price. The fundamental problem is DEMAND. There is a very real demand to spend $100 on a game that literally doesn't exist. That says more about us as consumers than it does about them.
It's definitely scummy to charge people to playtest your game. But, it's not my money. If folks want to blow their cash on this nonsense, more power to em!
The high price is to identify the real suckers. Given the scope they have promised and where they are now, this game is a minimum of 5-8 years away from being ready to release and they will run out of money before then.
sometime after 31:40 he says we need to have avenues for people to 'access the game'. So we *are* buying access to the game? They can't even keep their nonsense straight.
Everything is in 3 because most people wouldn't buy the most expensive product right away but if you introduce them to a cheaper product the' show them a mark up that seems advantageous then they'll probably buy it even if in a vacuum they wouldn't spend this much. And studies proved that it works two times after that you just lose the buyer
honestly, Ashes is a CULT OF PERSONALITY, god King Steven can say no wrong according to the fanbois
3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
I worked for a time at Microsoft as a contractor, as a games tester and got paid pretty well for it even as a contractor. I can't wrap by head around being a part of someone's QA/test department and PAYING them for the privilege of making their game not suck. worked on the somewhat unknown MMO Asheron's Call (yeah it didn't last and there was never much content, but it was cool to see how an MMO came up from the ground) and I worked on the first release of Age of Empires, as well as Combat Flight Sim. Either way they paid ME not me paying them to do BVT's and QA testing. FFS.
Now he starts to realise this project is never going to be the game he thinks it is. It's either not going to come out at all or it will be a MVP that pleases no one or will just go the way of every other unsuccessful MMO. Too little, too late.
There is a psychological reason why it goes in 3s.
When give the option of 2 a majority will buy the cheaper one, but if you leave those prices alone and add a 3rd more expensive option the majority now pick the one in the middle.
It's just another trick to get more money out of you.
Decoy-effect
yep, people always go for the one less than the top, thinking they are getting value.
While there are 3 choices only one is real. Phase 3 is alpha 2, or at least what a2 claimed it was going to be before they realized oh shut guys we're not going to make 2024 let's segment it into phases and make more money while (lol and I like this word, Steven uses it.) "Obfuscate" the reason.
Ad-class 101 lmao
@@TomJakobW actually I believe it's called the "goldilocks effect" because it matches the 3 bowls of porridge/chairs/beds etc
Remember when game tester was a job you got paid for? Now you pay them to test their games and people are happy with that. Then we wonder why 90% of games suck, because that's where the bar is now.
even more so, MMOs had alphas and betas you had to apply for to be admitted into. You had to prove you were a beta tester for other games/MMOs and demonstrate your activity level in providing feedback, even so much as providing your username on the equivalent game's forums.
It's not like alpha simps will "test" the game, just play it, it's not like they're directly gonna bother providing feedback
pray tell, what is a game tester job description exactly? how do they do their work?
It's still a job. Public testing is something completely different from actual QA. You're not going to get these random gamers to fill out real bug reports with steps to reproduce, attach video and screenshots of the problem and use correct terms so that the dev ending up reading it later can make sense of it.
This is exactly what I came here to say. Really makes me wanna say: bAcK iN mY dAy things and get called a boomer lol
You know we live in the twilight zone when instead of companies paying people to test their games they are charging outrageous amounts of money for the privilege of limited time access to an alpha test.
Its a red flag for me
Yeah.. I've been saying this a lot in other videos but i always get attacked back because according to the simps, they're helping to "fund" the development of the game and their feedback is crucial.
@@Nick-zm2vm 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
exactly and ppl are dumb enough to keep paying and its always more and more,unbelievable
and then we have, beta 1, beta 2 , beta 3, server test 1, server test 2, last technical test, actually last technical test, and then 3 phases of early access, and then 30$ a month for the sub
Meanwhile I got asked by a random indie developer to play their game and give early feedback, in return I got the game and future dlc.
Was forfor wow TWW? 😂😂
Did your random indie developer do this for 200k people and also have custom server tech for their MMORPG? or was it stardew valley made by 1 dude? big difference there.
Star Citizen is laughing at their noob scamraising.
Worst Part is when accused of doing what star citizen has done Steven has replied " We aren't like SC we have a plan and aren't going to take forever to come out....."..7+ years later a engine change and many delays and missed dates later and the exact same super expensive packages later..yeah right Steven.
@@AlbertoMartinez765
"how DARE you compare us to that shit, were obviously worse"
It is prophesized that come the end of days, the almighty Steven Sherrif and Chris Roberts will battle it out - while Mark Jacobs jerks off in the background
Star Citizen cost you 45$ to join and you still get amazing game, in the past 8 years 'AAA' games took your 60$-70$ and gave you shit product
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, yeah, look at it that way.
i bought diablo 4 for 70$ and i stop playing after 1 month.
@@liorsharabi9584
Bullshit.
Meanwhile some indie devs feels bad charging people 14.99$ their game 😅.
For real my current wip game I hemmed and hawed about if I should charge 10 or 15 i couldn't decide so I had my wife pick. Because I feel bad asking for money but I also want to eventually do this full time lol
Best of luck with your project!@@Spacemarine658
Technically they could also be classified as indie
apple and orange there, unless you know an indie that made an MMO?
@@G.Giorgio No they couldn't, as indie/AA/AAA is a category based on investment on a project.
This game has blown way past what would be considered an "indie budget" and is most likely in the AAA territory.
I'm hoping AoC ends up being a good MMO but there's no way in hell I'm paying a Studio to be an Alpha TESTER.
Exactly. Don't give them a dime until you're confident it's a game you're willing to pay to play.
If the phases look good and fun I may pay to get in. I am waiting and see and when it looks like fun to play I’ll jump in.
Camelot Unchained burned me that way... ever since I've been super hesitant to purchase anything since.
Just think, Star Citizen at least lets you keep your ships and game access... and you're Alpha access is unlimited.
@@BionicBurkewith the prices Star Citizen charges, they'd better let those paying testers keep their stuff.
120 dollars for a finished game is outrageous. 120 dollars for 30% of a game that is buggy as shit... Fuck that.
Mega slimy. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, I'll never touch this now on principle.
you are not purchasing a game. you are investing in the game and testing it. its not to be bought by clowns that cant see this.
@@Galrukh 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
@@AcSlaytah56investing in a game and testing it... so you can invest again in beta... and again at release... ok
Assuming it even releases
@@MrJackets they already changed the keys to give beta access so nice try. Again you are paying to invest in the game if you wanted extra shit you should have gotten the earlier supporter packs. These weren't even planned to be buyable but the community begged for them. Now they cry that it costs money to run servers.
The only thing they are testing here is how gullible their potential fan base is going to be.
Very apparently. Fans of this game have brain rot.
like all mmo fans; incresibly guligle.
not to mention toxic positivity and cult like behavior.
honestly let them have their dead genre. 10 year alpha for a world of warcraft reskin.
mmo fans deserve to keep being scammed.
It's like" I want you to pay me $140 to work for me for free, and also creators please be our PR for free, also run marketing for us for free."
Well hell, ashes, you want me to boot up unity tutorials and make the damn thing for you as well?
They probably do
You gotta pay em $20 per tutorial you provide
Just wait until they announce the bug bounty system: You figure out how to fix it and then give them 10$ to implement the change.
you could get BG3 twice for $120
And it's the whole game, not paying to be a tester. Imagine 🙂
@@Dreadskull91 You literally had to buy the game(BG3) to test for them when they went into early access for the purpose of feedback and data gathering.
Single player games cost more or less nothin(relative) to test with massive amounts of players, MMOs are super expensive to test with an expected amount of players to be useful, which is why it is more or less never done until after it is released, with a PTR for paying and active players.
It's fine that people want to not support it and wait for release. Everything is a tradeoff, this is the cost of not having external companies/investors telling them what to do.
This testing isn't required, but they want to do it, but the only way to justify the cost of having servers active for a large playerbase and devs/support people to maintain and update it alongside development, is for those that want it to pay into it. I do wish they spoke about this aspect when making these decisions.
@@Kimskelbg3 ea was still a good prodict and had like 30 hours of content. Oh yeah, and you actually OWNED THE FUCKING GAME unlike the horseshit they're trying to do with aoc. They just arent comparable situations beyond a surface level.
@@Kimskel You kind a forgot that you will own BG3 when it release even if you buy early access.
@@Kimskel As 4000ThousandSmiley and TheArnoldification said you kept the game, but in addition you got the digital deluxe edition at release.
Claiming they want "testers" is BS. What they are saying that "testing" is worth to them is $-120 per tester, therefore the quality of the "testing" will be $-120. You'll get what you pay for, and in this case, they pay in the negatives. If it were true that the alpha testers are important to the company and supposedly bring value to the company, why isn't it worth paying for (for them)?
A useful rule to live by is never to work for someone who doesn't value you and your work. If the work you're doing isn't worth anything for them, why do they want you to do it?
$$$
I did QA as a job in video games for a while. Was shit pay, but was something I opted into with my eyes open. Blindsiding people like these devs have done in the past, is just a scummy way to not have to pay (already shit wages) for people to do proper testing.
you don't understand, they want to take a dump on your chest and for you to pay for it too, what's so bad about that lol
It's not work. Neither you nor any other gaming moron in this comment section has any qualification to be testing any game nor to comment on the process. Early access is ONLY there so that they can get feedback from varied systems in order to account for more bugs and edge-cases than if they just released and hoped for the best. Neither you nor any other gaming moron in this comment section has any value in the game development industry, you are JUST a customer.
Calling the player base market share, kinda shows you where his head is at. But hey, we're all gamers here, am I right?
They are just farming copium and turning it in to real cash. If this game isn't dead 6 months after launch I'll eat my own arm.
If that happens at least it launched.
An actual launch? This is borderline AoC Fanboyism 🤣 But yeah, I only remember this game as needing more funding for years.
They hire crap devs sooo
@@neilochThey literally stated "It's already funded" since BEFORE the kickstarter. The kickstarter was just to check demand.
There is a lot to criticise, but they literally have NEVER said "We need more funds"
@@Reac2 cute you think them saying its funded and not saying they need more funds is 'proof.' "its going great because they said so" lol.
The game has been in "kickstarter" mode for literally years. Cope.
Remember the time where studios paid people to test their unfinished product? Not the other way around?
Yes. It was literally only a few years ago lol.
Remember when computer systems were pretty much the same, like consoles, so it was much easier to account for bugs and edge-cases? Remember when games were so simple that the complexity of the bugs were much lower? No, you don't. Because you don't fucking think before you open your mouth. You know NOTHING about game development, you are not qualified to talk about it.
Remember when they paid people to finish a product?
Stop acting like you won't be playing the game and having fun.. This isn't a 9-5 testing job.
Some corners of the game development space are really just grotesque. In a mindless desire for 'transparency' for transparency's sake, we've really reached a place where people are paying for the privelege of QA'ing a game that might in the worse case never come out. And the devs have the temerity to smile down the camera and guffaw as they gaslight their supporters into thinking that this is normal and fine.
I agree. What's worse is that by getting people to pay them for alpha access will lower the likelihood of the full game coming out. The more money the studio gets before release, the lower the incentive they have to actually fully releasing it. It's, as you so beautifully put it, grotesque.
I feel like if the alpha costs $120, I probably can't afford to play the game when it releases. I can only imagine the predatory monetization that will, likely, be in-place at release.
The game will have no box price , monthly sub of around 15-20$ with no pay 2 win or convenience.
@Touchin-Grass Yeah, that's what they said, and then they do this. I tend to believe actions and not words. If they can do it now they can do it later.
@@Touchin-Grassso if the expected amount of players to keep it afloat dont come what will happen? Even wow and final fantasy charge per new zones apart from the sub
@@Touchin-Grass I don't really believe any of that, but if that is the case, I will be pleasantly surprised.
@@Touchin-Grass You must be unfamiliar with Steven, if you're taking him at his word with evidence shown to be against the contrary. You're deluding yourself into thinking there won't be predatory practices.
The dude was notorious for being a POS, scamming, and taking advantage of people in the AA community for monetary value. But I don't expect people who didn't look into this guy to have no idea about his history.
The game will have predatory practices, on top of a sub, along with fleecing people every testing phase for 120 bucks. This is bad on so many levels because this will set a precedent for all developers to follow in general. Regardless if the game is good or bad, it's bad enough being charged 70-80 bucks per triple A release.
Now people are finding any way to cope and defending a practice that shouldn't even exist in a first place. No box price or not, it's irrelevant to the situation.
Remember guys this isn't Star Citizen.
They have a plan.... that they'll execute.
Probably. Just give it another decade. :)
So the workers at the studio are afraid of telling the truth to Steven. So, Steven is either stupid and gave us a PR justification, or he is testing how dumb his costumers are, to then adjust his prices in the future.
"costumers"
why are you confused??? you think worker not on board work there? like dont be this stupid
I swear to god I have seen this comment copy pasted on these videos for years
So I actually applied to work here a few years ago. I was given 4 different interviews and then at my final interview with Steven, got ghosted.
He told me he would send over paperwork for onboarding in a few weeks, but I never heard back. I was messed up for a long time, but I'm in a much better place now.
Looks like I dodged a bullet.
"I can't believe they said this on video"
Kira, my Dood, don't you know how Modern Videos work? Broadcast, Recorded, Retrievable, Repayable... NEVER HAPPENED.
Ask any politician. Ask Boogie. Ask DSP ffs.
Because the truth is irrelevant. People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
For those who don't know, Steven Sharif made is money in an MLM scam. So, yeah, he's a rich scammer. That's taking money for something he has no background in...
Doesnt really matter tbh. Why would you be interested in alpha testing a game in the first place?
Always better to wait for a finished product
Yeah I dont get it, playing alphas and betas just eats into your enjoyment of the released product, you can never have that wonder of being in a new game for the first time twice, even if you experienced it in alpha you'll have spoiled some of the magic of exploring a new game for the first time to some extent. I'm sure the people who want into an alpha or beta are also the people who watch 20 guides on every aspect of a game before they've even played it though so I guess it just doesnt matter to them. I think games are much more fun if you go in blind
because there is a portion of MMO gamers that have severe FOMO, and are violently desperate for something new. It's just basic exploitation of addicts.
There isn't going to be a "finished product" for this game. This here is the death rattle of the game, they're looking to fleece the rubes for as much as they can before they shutter the project and walk away with the money.
I could see myself do some testing for a game im invested on. But there's no fing way im paying for that.
Am I crazy, or the only one that noticed they listed "Alpha two first wave item" all three times? Imagine paying enough attention to update the cost of them but not the actual wording? Or am I smokin that shit again.
It is either they are greedy af or they have financial problem to complete the game which is very concerning. With business tactic like this.. the developers have no intention to finish the game anytime sooner.. or later.
Who the hell is so dumb to just buy alpha access and not the complete game?? Such a waste on money and time!!
There are people who will pay money for a game that doesn't exist at all, so someone paying to access an alpha test isn't that surprising.
If it included access to the full game, like "you get access to everything from alpha to full release" AND included "you get to make a small permenant mark on the world" like having an NPC named after you or you get to create a quest, I think that's the only time it'd be worth it to pay for something like this when it costs MORE THEN TRIPLE A FULL RELEASES. Reward the people willing to pay extra to be there from the beginning. Or make the typical collector's edition but it's exclusive to people who bought in early. I don't understand the financial decisions these people are making. 😂
They should have stopped showing stuff long ago. Launch the kickstarter, show a couple of hype generating trailers and whatnot - then stop. Let people forget about it until you have something good.
Building it alongside the community, daily updates and all sounds nice but it just doesn't work when it comes to marketting. People are fatigued about this game, and most have stopped caring entirely. Soon there will be no one left.
They are doing daily updates? That sounds pointless. Weekly maybe but quarterly would be more reasonable because how much progress is happening on a daily basis?
@@MorbidEel Every other day I see a community post on youtube showcasing the most minimal addition to the game, sometimes even just concept art - not to mention the AMAs.
How people still have questions to ask is truly incredible
@@MorbidEel daily updates means the community is the business, not making the game.
Nah, it's like TH-cam channels and MMOs who stayed the same and afloat for the last 10 years.
People get tired, leave and come back it 2 years, repeat.
People will not get tired of AOC permanently... That's just stupid to say.
Is humanity tired of McDonald's yet? Or Walmart? They are open 24 hours you know. The market self regulates
@Reac2 Not permanently, no. But it is in their best interest to make sure the market is at its peak right before the big release. There's no guarantee Ashed of Creation will be a staple name like McDonald's or Wallmart
Any studio that sells shit in a game before that game is even released is a huge red flag that they can not be trusted. This and Star Citizen have exploited their customers for YEARS and the copium the fan boys smoke is crazy.
Also, this suspiciously feels like scam, like those people who sells overpriced product before suddenly escape/ closing their company so people can't sue
Btw, I'm sure there's correct term for this kind of scam, I'm just not that fluent
Star Citizen has always been playable since 2015, three years after they started development in 2012 for only $45. Even sooner if you count the social module or hangar module. Completely different than seven years of development with only a alpha one so far to show for it and no open servers for testing.
@@Treecko8O Sir, are you so stupid that you mentioned the years and haven't noticed that we're over A DECADE later and still nothing has been shown for it?
Idk i have had a lot of fun in star citizen
Love the hair beard combo dude! You look great, hope life has been treating you well.
When will MMO's stop selling stuff that doesn't exist
When morons stop buying
NEVER
Never, obviously. It's their main moneymaker.
When people stop buying it, so never.
When idiots stop buying it. If there's no demand, there's no supply. We can hate these companies all we want, but there are A LOT of people enabling it.
Kira is right on the money for the most part. He is absolutely wrong about “no one should care”. The MMO community for the last decade or so has been milked for every single dime these companies can drain from us. Yes, if you got the money, and you hate money, by all means give it to this scammer.
HOWEVER, there are those players who DO NOT KNOW they are getting scammed. As a community, WE ALL should try to get that information to ALL players. If no one takes a stand, WE ALL LOSE.
He is sort of right. It is not a topic to get mad about because smart people will decide things for themselves. You cannot convince an idiot that he has been scammed, as well.
I just don't agree that anyone is being scammed here. As someone who covers scams for a living essentially, where's the scam? They're clearly making a game, and if I thought that it would change anything I'd rally against it and say "no one give them money", but we're 15 years too late for that. Nothing you do, nothing I say or do, will change a thing. I've tried. Give it a go mate, let me know how you change the industry. People will be milked, because they are cattle. They'll continue, the devs will continue, and life goes on. The cows like to be milked, remember.
They're not being scammed by this, they're being sold garbage in my opinion. But read through some of their community, read through some of these comment posts. They love it. Who are we to stop them enjoying being milked? Again, we won't change the industry.
@@kirareacts Sad but true, every time someone says "vote with your wallet" you get far too many people voting in favor of the shitty option that its just become a circus at this point. Better lean back and enjoy the trashfire, better for the mental health.
@@kirareacts In all honesty, do you expect a game to come out of this?
Testers Don't have to like a game to test it properly. Selling testing is buying fanboys. You want people who will pick the game apart if you want it to be good. IMO
Imagine paying a company twice the price of a full price game for the privlage to work as a QA tester for them.
Especially when MMO failure to launch rate is greater than 50%
If you bought an alpha key, I highly suggest you contact your financial services and demand a chargeback because you have been scammed.
You also have to keep in mind that any 'tester' that has already paid over 100 bucks is so emotionally invested in wanting this to be a good game and investment that they will not be able to test the game properly. They will happily ignore bugs or the gameplay not being fun, or (looking at star citizen here) it not being a working game at all.
@Knuspabrot great point, religious zealots are not going to provide critical feedback
Brain drain is right. I really think these super public open development games do a disservice to themselves. I want a game to new and interesting when I start playing, can't have that if you see every little detail for years
If something is inherently good then spoilers usually don't matter at all. And if spoilers make the gameplay less fun, then that directly means the replayability is low. Which is very bad for an MMORPG
Imagine pay that much and still get no release or even cosmetic.
If i made a game and someone pay that much i would personally kiss their feet
Be careful about the promises you make...
I don't understand. Didn't people pay full price on kickstarter to fund and purchase this game half a decade ago? Where is the game, and why are they charging people hundreds of dollars now to do paid work for them? Smells hella scammy to me.
And you want people that already paid to eat them alive?
its most likely that kickstart money is spent on dev time already with the scope creep they have done in the past 3 years. trying to do cool things cost money
They probably got access to Aplha ONE, this is Alpha TWO, something completely different. Pay us again, peasants!
Over a decade of professional testing experience (not in gaming but multiple other industries for range of company sizes) this is bonkers. I'm paying you to give you my time so you can get your product moved on a bit. I get people want a game they are invested in but if they still have multiple phases this far along and that 'roadmap' is anything to be believed, they are so far off showing anything of a finished product, you are pissing your hard earned money into a hole. They have even said "there is nothing you are missing out on if you don't get involved and all progress will not carry through to the game anyway" If they said what it was and they need more money then if it was in anyway involved I'd consider doing it if i had any horse in the race but his seems like they have no respect for anyone's time or dedication they are trying to get involved, then want to me pay them to do the work for them. The issue i have is not the pay to work scheme, people who are fans will do it , its the fact they are relying on this BUT go out of their way to cover the real point - they want/need money. At least be honest. If anyone wants to do this you can join a crowd testing platform/company and get paid to find bugs in other software (something they could easily do but that costs THEM not you so its nothing to do with testing. They themselves say is a pointless exercise in terms of final product as you don't get any of that. TBH honest to be a tester is more than turning up and playing a game in the hope you stumble across problems -that works for exploratory testing but the quality of "testers" selected purely by who will part with money will be so vast and wide there is no guarantee that anything intricate or of any significant value would be found but glaring under the hood errors could nad would likely go completely missed. This tells me they aren't in it for the results. You have to understand how the product works to be able to able to pick it apart and test it's boundaries - they aren't going to share that and the testers wouldn't understand the technicalities of it having never done testing before. Exploratory testing has it's place but its only ever a small part of the overall test process. That usually comes later on in the product's dev cycle, at the point of fix and polish and 99% of the time only very minor or cosmetic enhancements are needed at that point (which is why crowd testing with potential users would be at beta, where you are already over the functional tests of the alpha and yo don't need seasoned testers to find surface level issue, feedback on user journey improvements, UI updates etc etc. You are just looking at coverage of the product at that point and throwing the net as wide as possible by simply throwing eyes and bodies at it. In short, this test cycle would uncover surface level issues only - you are unlikely to find anything big that actually matters at this stage which is what you are really looking for from a dev perspective. At the alpha stage in product life cycle you are still very much in the nuts and bolts of it - it;s a basic functioning prototype hammering out network performance, and all sorts of optimisations. Inexperienced people participating in a no-fixed agenda test cycle with no actual purpose to the testing at alpha means the only guaranteed outcome is they get what they want as a company. Your time and your money, with zero commitment to you that this will actually do anything to move the product on. Most importantly if this under the covers money extraction without saying it attitude is the norm that tells me enough about their attitude to running the company, regardless of the product and how it is now. Seems like they are taking advantage of their own continuing-to-pay loyal customers, which also makes no business sense. Those dedicated to our project people are the exact customers you WANT onside and need to keep them that way for when you product comes out long term. Unless of course that's so far away from the company perspective the users will already be experiencing the sunk cost fallacy by that point so the company continues to benefit from those users anyway. Ethically i don' t like it. Morally i don't like it and their technical approach and reasons? i don't like it. It seems disingenuous to be suggesting selling a test phase to people who don't understand they just hearing "testing" and think they can add some real value. Im not saying they can't im saying its a stupid and ineffecient way to progress anything in Alpha. Testing is great but its about what you do and when. This seems al backwards to me or this simply isn't in alpha but they are saying it is. If it's alpha you'd be crowd sourcing professionals or widening your internal scope of QA numbers not selling public access. At this point you'd want the testers to have access to technincal documentation, release pipeline, performance indicators and access directly to the developers, to name jsut a few. So adding to all that. as Kira says, the real motivation they just want money but won't say. Its that lack of real transparency that means i don't trust anything they say now or in the future or how many other alpha phases they will have. Putting the whole game aside, the whole business approach and selling testing to people who have no idea how to test is enough to tell me results do'n't matter and that'd put me off and I'd be giving this whole project a wide birth full stop.
If you ask people to pay you to test your game, instead of you paying people to be testers, then you populate your tester pool with people who are already bought-in as fans of your upcoming title instead of people who are professional unbiased testers. Your test results are going to be so terribly skew if you have that kind of overlap between the community of your testers and the community of your defenders.
Another "Wowkiller" bites the dust
As a gamer you don’t want this kind of thing become normalized in paying for Alpha Testing which is ludicrous and against your better judgement of this sort of thing. If this sort of thing is successful for AoC then other game studios can take note and follow suit. It won’t be all of them, but some amount of other studios can follow this as an early money grab to recoup cost and in some cases, never even finish their game. Don’t normalize this kind of BS in paying for Alpha Testing!
Remember, one of the best ways to support the creators that you follow to give them a thumbs up and leave a comment. Another excellent video, cheers.
Or GIve them 120€ tò support their unfinished work Also works well😂
Their emphasis on this being a "testing" focus is absolutely disingenuous if not outright lying. If they were interested in feedback they would want a carefully selected cross section of players to get a balanced opinion of game elements, mechanics etc... If they were interested in testing the game performance they would want to select testers based on a selection of hardware configurations. If they base the game on feedback from a group of people willing to spend 120 dollars for an alpha key it's probably not a game I'm going to be interested in but let's be real...this is about money not testing.
I have long since checked out on this game. I just delete the constant emails they send me with new skins to purchase. I regret supporting this game long ago. Maybe it ends up being a good game in the end but I have long since kissed my 80 bucks goodbye and ceased caring what happens.
"If they were interested in feedback they would want a carefully selected cross section of players to get a balanced opinion of game elements, mechanics etc.."
Here's why they are not doing that and not giving free access to alpha test
They want people with money playing the game, they are not interested in the average random who might just buy sub time and be done with it, they want people who will throw hundreds at the game
That's what will shape the game, greed, they will make a game to please whale.
@@claire6650 That's why I said if they are actually taking feedback from a group that has self-selected as a group with "whale" characteristics then this isn't a game I'm interested in because I don't value their opinion or feedback and don't believe they will help steer the game in a positive direction.
What’s hilarious is all the cult members are defending them, as spending $120 means you only get serious “testers”
It’s insanity, they’re like a cult huffing copium 24/7
they already have QA testers. but they want warm bodies basically for stress testing, more or less - that's the real reason.
they have that price-tag because the initial price to even get into the alpha 2 was about 150$.
mmo is a factually dead video game genre, and the sooner you understand it, the less you'll waste your time with these shitty games
"tHiS oNe Is GoInG tO bE dIfFeReNt gUyS!" You know how many times I've heard that over the years with this game?!
They NEED Alpha testers, so they're charging people to Alpha test their game. Brilliant. Thank goodness there are suckers willing to do that.
Let me preface this by saying I am not accusing anyone of physical abuse, nor am I equating the severity of pay-to-test alphas and physical abuse. However, I cannot help but feel an uneasy familiarity with the whole "It'll be different this time/with me" routine. Spoiler- it usually isn't different and the only good choice is to get out and stay away if you can.
I agree with you, what actually pissed me off was the condescending way he put it across its basically "listen up morons" you are greedy or just need more money at least don't gaslight your audience and be honest cause everyone sees right through this bs
I backed their Kickstarter - I have Alpha 1, 2, and Beta access from back in the day. I cannot believe they are now selling packages that are Alpha only keys - for over $100 especially with all the Alpha and Beta testers that are already signed up.... This smells bad like that juicy fart in a steam filled locker room.
they have to pivoted to F2P game, otherwise not including the box should be criminal.
Ashes of Citizen
Bahaha yesssss
Those diehard fans are justifying that $120 is not that bad at all since it actually contains access to all 3 alpha phases and the beta. But still, this doesn't make sense. lol
EDIT: Can confirm, sunk-cost fallacy is deep.
And 15 for in game currency when it comes out and 1 month subscription. If you enjoy testing this’ll be amazing. Testing will be 1.5 years at the least. It’ll cost $5 a month for entertainment for testers for just the alpha. the longer alpha and beta runs the cheaper it gets.
well, it's not, it's only alpha, for beta u gonna have to pay again lmao, confirmed by steven
@@DJ_Treu CoD is the best AAA or AA arcade shooter on the market. No other company comes close in terms of scope and quality. I don't know what you are on about. You should probably try CoD it's improved since MW2 original, and been good since cold war. And wow is where it is because it has almost every new MMORPG feature besides sandbox.
@@skeithaseoxdyou are wrong. If you buy an alpha key you get access to beta as well until the game releases. They made a statement after last video for clarification.
@@DJ_Treuthey said in the live stream it does not get access to beta they said it? Have they changed there mind
This is possible because people don't know their classics... 😁 So when Tom Sawyer had to paint the fence as punishment, he tricked other kids to pay him for the priviledge of painting it for him. This is that irl... 🤣🤣🤣
Imagine paying Walmart to be hired as consultant on anything rather them paying you.
I have... what's it called when you're positive and hopeful but cautious? Well, I am that. But you would never be able to gaslight me into thinking that me paying you to try out your service or product is something I have to do and/or thank you for.
I agree that is not our money so not our problem, but I do think it does matter because overall sets a precedent or extends the ones we have. FIFA making 1 billion in stupid cards shouldn't matter to us, because is not our money. Yet, that is the state of the industry and eventually it will affect us. Same thing when a coworker is being abused but you don't do anything for whatever reason. If they do that to them, they totally could do it to you. It's not directly comparable, but it's the premise and the mindset that should matter.
At this point is too late, and Star Citizen and AoC proved people will be stupid enough to be guinea pigs / rat labs for them.
That said, as counter argument for the "barrier" which they created... some people might REALLY want to be able to test it and give feedback, and help the game grow and get developed. That said, a dude that paid 120 dollars for it will probably take it very seriously, especially if there's an NDA and whatnot... they'll actually test shit and "get their money's worth". So I am assuming that besides of "needing money" or lowering costs in general even if they do not need the money, they are also putting the sunk cost that was already maybe about time or emotional, now into money as well. And a big amount.
This does not sound like a "counter argument" or in favor of them doing so, but while stating they "do not need to buy it", whomever does, is on their own decision of perhaps, "investing themselves" into "ensuring the game has funding and testing and gets made" for their enjoyment in the future. (all of this is a big hypothetical as I have no evidence of anything)
Again, the same fucking comment from every idiot that knows nothing about game development. Games are much more complicated now, so to make it easier to run on the MANY different systems and OS's that exist, they need to gather information from those systems. Pretty fucking hard to do that when every gaming moron with 0 functioning brain cells just refuse to opt in to helping the development process that they said they were fucking interested in.
The term you're looking for is "cautious optimism"
This guy talked such a big game about being player friendly only to turn around and sell alpha and beta testing for twice the normal price of a full game.
When people criticize AoC monetization, AoC defenders or the Copium consumer go to argument is, "nobody forcing you to buy" or "it's to support the game development".. While that reasoning is fine they fail to see the long term damage of supporting this type of greedy monetization to future MMOs.. Supporting this type of monetization will just encourage future game developer to copy what Star Citizen and AoC are doing... 1.Make grandiose promises 2.Upload shiny updates and future plans on youtube. 3. Sell Alpha keys... And if Alpha keys are selling what's the point of releasing the game.? Star Citizen is 13 year old and still in development, AoC is 7 years old and still in Alpha 2.. If Apha 2 keys are selling what's the point of going to Beta? The smart move is to sell Alpha 3 keys.. Many AoC defenders haven't realize it yet but they are ruining the future of MMO's.. They are creating the new meta of MMO development.. No need to complete an MMO in 5-6 years if you can sell Alpha keys for 10+ years.. For now the large gaming companies haven't noticed it yet but when they realize that they can make money selling Alpha keys and FOMO cosmetics for hundreds of dollars without even releasing a game, it would be a bloodbath. Just remember you were supporting this behavior, in the future it will be the norms.. So keep ignorantly defending this type of monetization, if were lucky maybe not only MMO but even single player games will sell Alpha keys too.. I bet GTA 7 will make billions before release if they sell alpha keys..
Ah new conspiracy theory ...
Eventually MMOs will be on patreon... We all know how long those games take to complete.
@@Galrukhthere are so many failed patreon mmos. You can't fully develop a mmo with croud funding, it need proper investors.
I bet when Epic releases UE6, AoC will want to changed to UE6 and cause more delays. I wonder how outdated the game will be once it releases.
@@ryuno2097 You can absolutely do it without crowd funding, just get a proper money tank to invest. But this is what I mean, companies that think they can get by with patreon subs or a bit of crowd funding will end up there, being in "development" for ages and eventually fizzle out.
When we hit Alpha5, we're gonna need some teenagers with attitude to stop Rita. Aiyiyi!
I remember paying around £10 for closed beta access to Path of Exile back in 2012. Guess what I'm still playing today?
Yeah, not an MMO but PoE is the shining example of how game dev should be done. Looks like AoC has taken a leaf out of CIG's playbook - hopefully it will turn out a bit better than their grift, but doesn't look too good.
and they also gave you 100 points with it to spend in game
no server hosting costs - alone it cost the company 65c a month per concurrent player and they will have over 100,000 players playing for the next 4 years
@@SwapwareGames PoE definitely has server hosting costs, it is entirely online, and they have had upward of 100,000 concurrent users for around 10 years - breaking new records (for them) at the start of the current league three weeks ago with 350,000 concurrent players.
Charging $100+ for an Alpha test is a big red flag, and smells very much of a desperate cash grab for a game that is seemingly stuck n development hell with very little sign of progress.
There is also a bit more context to paying for beta access to PoE. It wasn't there initially and it was just a lottery system but then there were people making accounts to get keys just to resell and IIRC there were people paying much more than 10 dollars/euros to those resellers. Given that situation it was better to offer an official option so the money goes to the devs and to set a price cap.
@@MorbidEel they also, as a commenter above wrote, gave 100 coins (which is around 10 bucks). So they kept it at zero-balance.
Honestly, just saying "development is expensive and this helps us out" and I wouldn't have a problem with this. They are very open with their development and try to be transparent... they shouldn't risk their reputation for stuff like this. This is basically their biggest strength and the thing that sets them apart from all the other Kickstarter MMOs.
I dont get the outrage. Like... werent they selling those Early Bird packs for years at this point?
I always thought it was a consens that AoC is kinda the less outrageous Fantasy version of Star Citizen.
I really wonder how long it'll be for devs to start charging people to have voice imprints for AI to use to be in the game, instead of using VA entirely. Im sure plenty of people would be willing to pay a large amount of money to voice a character, and that kind of sucks. Maybe that would end up lowering the quality enough that it wouldnt be worth it, but its hard to say
I could do a maybe 2-3 hour comprehensive test of target features if they paid me a hundred bucks. You have to be insane to pay them for basically doing a tester job and huffing copium about having impact on the development. Remember the gameplay loop he described!
Star Citizen? That you?
AoC will bleed its customers dry before we ever see an actual launch. I suspect paid mounts, housing and player cosmetics will slowly start being pushed out. So glad I've never been excited for this generic cash grab.
tbh it's what bothers me the most. that its the most generic world of warcraft clone; and i think world of warcraft is terrible to begin with.
The more I see about this game, the more worried I get.
Shouldn't the playtester be paid? like a normal job, which it is. Also I need playtesters for my game. but it's a free demo, Paradisium on itch, it's very rough yet.
Cool! I'm going to check your game out. And I agree. Playtesters should either be paid or be unpaid but get the (test) product for free. And if there isn't an obligation to provide feedback (which it shouldn't after having to pay $120), they won't get reliable and useful data either.
I remember reading the adage "Don't pay to be a beta tester." Here they are asking people to pay to be an ALPHA tester. Usually alpha testers are paid to do the testing.
laughs in Pax Dei
$120 Alpha access is fucking ridiculous
Makes you wonder how much the beta will cost.
120 usd.
was that not the cost of Star wars the old republic or was it the first run of Archage?
man sort of Miss Archage or at least remember when XP gamer was taliing about it because they played the beta and it was like perfect.
game launch and everything was changed for the worse and then it whent downhill.
25:00 the pay for tester is a ide that I sort of support (120 maybe not) what I mean whit this.
I signed up for a few beta tests in my life (games) all for free and for half of them when it came to start beta testing I downloded the game and then never started it.
one game I paid for and I played it because I paid for it and I did bug reports and all that.
its the netflix feedback loop free netflix account watches 1 movie a year. paid montly sub on netflix watches at least 5 movies a month.
They now included Beta and a mont Off Playtime after Release
Seems a reasonable price to set depending on how many people you are wanting to join the test. If they wanted half as many people to join the test, they could have set it at $250 and it would be reasonable.
You could say, well they could just select x amount of people but they would not be as invested. This ensures the people getting in are the ones that really want it.
If this had an NDA I could see some reason to be outraged but honestly people who cry about this sort of thing are upset because they would like to play but not quite enough to pay the price.
@@circaen turn me around daddy and do me from behind - that's what you pretty much saying
"One thing I love about our community"... that they are great cows for the milking?
I alpha and beta tested a bunch of MMO's between 2000 and 2010, back when I had too much time on my hands, and strangely didn't pay a dime for any of that! I applied to be a tester, and the devs selected people with hardware and time that they wanted. The idea of selling alpha access is crazy. Pure money grab.
Got any interesting stories about those games looking back?
and ALL these mmos are dead now.
3h before u uploaded your video, steven commented under their live stream update on youtube:
My friends, we have heard the feedback regarding the new key packs, and we have made adjustments to address the concerns. First, the keys grant access to all Beta phases. Additionally, the keys provide a month of sub time and $15 in embers (cosmetic shop currency, no p2w or p2conviencence). We have also planned giveaways during the different phases. It is important to note, Alpha 2 will last at a minimum a year, potentially longer depending on iteration time necessary. These keys are intended to support the costs associated with running the alpha server for that time. The keys are not intended to be sold to people looking to play a game, but rather to support our development and help bring to life the vision of Ashes, with an opportunity to help inform that vision as passionate and invested testers.
They probably do have QAs for the game, just feels like a cash grab to me. Puts me off even wanting to try the game when it comes out now
lol also sounds like they will sell beta access too.
Shylily, Ironmouse, Josh S. Hayes. Good taste :)
Paying to do their job is crazy, what is also crazy is that they are doing this AGAIN, this is alpha 2. I wonder if they are going to move to Beta or if they suddenly decide to do Alpha 3 and re-sell access again LMAO
geeze, paying TWICE the full price of a modern game(on any platform but PS5) for the 'honor' of an unpaid alpha test for this one game. And just this one alpha test, if they do another alpha, or a beta, you gotta pay again! This is a scam, plain and simple.
Right there with you guys on becoming apathetic over the passage of time hearing about this game. At this point even getting coverage of it that is a rarity.
Cashing in Creation.
Sta$hes of Creation
lol I got a Star Citizen add while watching this. 😂
If TotalBiscuit was alive, he would have a few words to say about this for sure, bloody hell man
the whales are coming!!!!! man the cannons and ready the harpoons!!!! 🐋🐋🐋💸💸💸💸🐋🐋🐋🐋
Just keep in mind that people were angry at games going up to $70 for a AAA game on release.
Asking people to PAY to test your game and give feedback is insane, but asking them to pay a 'deluxe edition' price for it is just bat shit crazy.
You don't even get access to the beta, lord knows how much they will charge for that, maybe $200.
This will go down as one of those moments in games history that we look back on and think, 'why did some people do that?', just like buying the first horse armour cosmetic, paying for the first battle pass, paying for a game and then still paying for a monthly fee, paying for in-game currency, paying for loot boxes. None of them good for gamers.
DO NOT PAY THIS.
You are doing every gamer that comes after you a disservice if you do.
This can not become the status quo and acceptable.
I believe they are charging due to the fact that people who purchased the starter packs might get upset if they spent to participate and someone else gets a hand out. Personally I think the prices are way to high and should have been closer to the $50 range. There could be other motives, but I believe that is the reason.
I agree.
Corporations demanding payment for you doing work is never okay
Wasnt that Steven guy involved in a ponzie scheme before too?
Please do a video on him
yeah pretty sure it was a pyramid scheme thing, but this is real game no doubt.. its just i have doubts it'll be released for long time and it'll be shit
The best part is that if no one pays they'll just have to start sending out free keys and asking people to test the game for them. Too bad people don't have more self control and think that playing a broken game. It's also telling that they already walked back the stance that this didn't provide access to the beta. That was just adding insult to injury, but people shouldn't be paying this regardless of that change.
Alpha 2 is slated to last 1 year per Steven, so this game is not coming out anytime soon. I do not think they will give away free keys, its just a cash grab to sustain development.
imagine
old jim bob tries to sell you an incomplete pair of shoes
he promises that they will be fully made in due time
he says he will sweeten the deal by including some dye and stickers, nice
he also says, that you could be a part of the exciting development process of finishing off the shoes
all you have to do to be a part of something so exciting that future generations will write about is pay old jim bob the money for the "privilege"
do you know what i would then say to old jim bob?
something I can't say without my comment being censored
4:00 not only that but they break everything they said even with the "we don't make this for the money" mindset lol.
I didn't care too much about the game ever since they said it would be open PVP and then showed the combat, but this stream was pure circus to watch
They are either scamming people, or are mismanaging the money they're getting, probably a bit of both.
They did this shit on purpose, they gave themselves bad PR to walk it back and say they listen and hear the community..
Thats a well known tactic in sells.
The wording on the keys being "Items" for $xx is so scummy.
22:20 This is what they say, but what they mean is 'we want to have grounds to sue you and therefore intimidate you into taking down anything we don't like'.
Sure AAA space is somewhat different, but when indie devs are out here doing devlogs that tell you exactly how they are going to build the game while they are doing it...
Nobody is going to steal your idea, the amount of effort and investment that would take to MAYBE capitalize on a new market while simultaneously being a worse product would be an insanely risky move.
The right move for these kinds of grifters will always be to wait for someone else to expose a huge new market, doing all the marketing and hype generation first, then crap out something cheap that will be profitable off of even just a few foolish fish.
Say what you will about Ashes, but they obviously looked at the numbers, determined what profit they hoped to make (and they will profit at this price point), and used a supply and demand graph to set the price. The fundamental problem is DEMAND. There is a very real demand to spend $100 on a game that literally doesn't exist. That says more about us as consumers than it does about them.
It's definitely scummy to charge people to playtest your game. But, it's not my money. If folks want to blow their cash on this nonsense, more power to em!
The high price is to identify the real suckers. Given the scope they have promised and where they are now, this game is a minimum of 5-8 years away from being ready to release and they will run out of money before then.
I'm putting my money on this game never actually ever releasing. XD
**cough** star citizen **cough**
Neve have and never will spend a penny on this game until I see a final product. Know if its worth my time / money.
Listening about another crowdfunding gem makes me nostalgic and wonder:
wen elyria?
sometime after 31:40 he says we need to have avenues for people to 'access the game'. So we *are* buying access to the game?
They can't even keep their nonsense straight.
Oh man it's the "you were the chosen one!" time once again.
Are they crazy? Do they have no dignity or self-respect? How in the world could they possibly think this is acceptable??
Everything is in 3 because most people wouldn't buy the most expensive product right away but if you introduce them to a cheaper product the' show them a mark up that seems advantageous then they'll probably buy it even if in a vacuum they wouldn't spend this much. And studies proved that it works two times after that you just lose the buyer
honestly, Ashes is a CULT OF PERSONALITY, god King Steven can say no wrong according to the fanbois
I worked for a time at Microsoft as a contractor, as a games tester and got paid pretty well for it even as a contractor. I can't wrap by head around being a part of someone's QA/test department and PAYING them for the privilege of making their game not suck. worked on the somewhat unknown MMO Asheron's Call (yeah it didn't last and there was never much content, but it was cool to see how an MMO came up from the ground) and I worked on the first release of Age of Empires, as well as Combat Flight Sim. Either way they paid ME not me paying them to do BVT's and QA testing. FFS.
100+ for an ALPHA!!! Star Citizen 2.0??
I hope this game is good when it comes out. If it comes out. Despite all the red flags.
Now he starts to realise this project is never going to be the game he thinks it is. It's either not going to come out at all or it will be a MVP that pleases no one or will just go the way of every other unsuccessful MMO. Too little, too late.