I didn't play this game because when its Relase I gave up on it. Ever going to built a Citie that dosent look alike the Last one. Im creative Builder with no money Problems. I wanted to wait until I can use my Mods I need or something like the Workshop comes that we have more Decorative Items to use not only those they give us and that were less then alot.
I mostly use to built an ongoing Megalopolis but in this game there is so much going on that you cant built a City like that. And if you do the Lag is so bad you cant play anymore
U can only built spread out US American Cities but not Compact European Cities. And if you want to built Mediterranian for a change you have download the new DCL with Simple 3 Palmtrees and a Bush 6 Different Kind of Building that look from Level 1 to Level 5 almost the Same thats a joke.
I like the idea that when the city updated to the new economy that there was a global economic recession and therefore the governmental budgets got slashed to make ends meet.
What is REALLY annoying about the tile upkeep feature is it's basically the OPPOSITE of subsidies. Before 2.0 we were getting free money from the government and there was no transparency. Now we're giving away free money to the government and there is no transparency. Most of the other changes make sense, are realistic, and introduce meaningful challenge to the game.
Really depends on how the "country" is structured the city is in. One of the most valuable resource in the world is land. It's limited and valuable. So, having the city pay the country's government for using the country's land and making money from it doesn't seem so far fetched in my opinion.
@@NPSao I agree in principle with the concept that land choices have consequences (although I think they’ve executed it poorly)-but I also think there is an argument that the opportunity cost alone of making the initial purchase of the tile more prohibitive would have been sufficient. I’m making a more general observation about the game mechanics. We’ve traded one loathsome and unloved feature for another. And it seems to me particularly vexing and problematic that this was the one feature of which they didn’t inform us in the dev diaries prior to release. Given all of the bad feelings around their communications style this feels like more of the same and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
I couldn't help thinking that the guy doing the tile upkeep redo was the one guy who still resented the criticism and insults by players from the release, a retaliatry troll. "Oh, 'it's fun to lose' you say? 'it should be a challenge' you say? Chew on this haters!"
A lot of cities in real life must pay rent to the local natives for the right to exist since the town lies inside a reservation. You could pretend that the upkeep is such a payment.
In my city of 200k the only things I noticed were the death wave and the performance being even worse than it was, while still making absurd loads of money, so I decided to start a new city. And oh boy, the increase in the difficulty level was noticable
I’d like to see how it works on a new build. It seems pretty drastic when applied to an existing one. But on the whole, I like that it’s a challenge and forces you to make decisions
The fee is calculated based on mostly the availability of natural resources. CPP's world is full of fertile land which massively increases the price of all the tiles
Its gonna encourage people to build smaller and denser communities which is fine, but I feel allowing people to buy disconnected tiles and stuff in CS2 was a huge thing for people who build smaller settlements all over the map, who are the people who'll struggle the most with this. Hopefully this is just a placeholder while they actually work on fixing the cost of services properly and this is a temporary difficulty boost and they'll rebalance services to be more punishing as the final long term solution
Heres an idea to fix tile upkeep: allow construction in locked tiles, with no tax income from them. Essentially, locked=county, unlocked=annexed to the city. This would fix the problem of needing to unlock a tile just to build a length of highway. You could build farms and specialized industry outside of annexed tiles, attracting residents at the cost of making no revenue; then annex tiles that are worth paying upkeep for. It’s not just a quick patch for tile upkeep, either; it would allow for more natural, dispersed regional growth, instead of oddly blocky development of one tile at a time like I do now.
@@NoDecaf7 I likey. Highway and train corridors could be treated like county property leased to city, allows utility transfer routes but no development; with a tiny upkeep relative to tile purchase. Closer to real life.
Yes! Needs to be something like this. Restricting all infrastructure to squares rather than the actual geography and common sense of what's needed is what makes the whole tile thing so annoying.
When he build a lot of these, I was a bit shocked at the over-sizing of the buildings. They didn't really feel realistic. I'm glad that Economy 2.0 is forcing more realistic choices and decision making.
Hey, you may want to check your office buildings and see if they all have 5 employees. There is currently a bug, already reported on the paradox forums, where your office buildings slowly decrease the number of people employed until there is only 5. This could be the cause of your low office tax revenue and high unemployment.
At the end, you thanked us foe being here and watch you managing taxes and budget. And to be honest, this was one of the most if not THE most enjoyable episode of this series for me, because now the game really became a game, instead of just beauty fluff without any consequence or one of these beautifull-but-not-working cities. And that's why I came to your channel, because you build cities that not only look nice, but also work. Great work!
♻️ Phil! While Michigan has a very low number of items banned from landfills. Wisconsin has a landfill ban on recyclables that requires local municipalities to recycle cans, cardboard, paper, glass and some plastics. It is an expensive but required part of local government budgets. Sad to see that the laws in Superior follow the MI example and not WI. I guess County Executive Chuck King is right when he says the state doesn’t prioritize the environment.
37:57 i agree that the telcom tower might dwarf the skyline if it's placed atop the hill, but generally large communications structures near urban areas are built atop hills so that they have a longer transmission range. they also have the potential to look like a cool monument-- take the sutro tower in san francisco for example, which serves many of the city's tv and radio stations.
They don't build higher for longer transmission range. It actually slightly reduces the range technically. They do it so the transmission has less "shadows" from structures and the quality of the coverage is better in the area it's in. Think of it like having a table lamp on the floor and lifting it up onto a table. The floor isn't as bright (lower ranges), but the shadows it casts are shorter due to the angle (better coverage quality)
Thank you so much for using my mod! It really bothered me not seeing my balance on the main UI, I have also added in the population per hour as well :)
I chose not to start any of my existing cities in the new economy -- the high-rent bug was so annoying that I never invested enough time in any city to care. So, first of all, I appreciate that you're NOT doing that because you have invested in this city series! The new city I started is TOTALY more challenging. I still haven't been able to place a school because I can't afford it yet :-D I still don't like how early the game drives you to density, but I am still so much happier with an early-game economy that makes you make choices again.
"How early the game drives you to density" That's the exact opposite of my experience. I'm trying to build a dense city, styled after New York, but anything other than single family homes just doesn't get built or gets abandoned after a while.
Tile upkeep feels really kludgy, like they tried making the game harder but couldn't get cities to work with more expensive service upkeeps, so they just added a money drain. And rather than just making it an arbitrary "you must be this profitable to safely open the next tile" they based it on resources, which is just baffling. Undeveloped land doesn't need upkeep, it's undeveloped. Building upgrades not showing the number of workers that need paying is also a massive oversight. I guess you could buy the upgrade and then reduce spending on that service city- or district-wide, but just having the wages rolled into the upkeep (or a second pane) would be far better. I sense a followup patch to fix these weird decisions.
That’s the thing though, if it’s “owned” land, undeveloped or not there is upkeep associated with it. Government level or private you still have costs associated with “owning” that land. And it’s reasonable to assume that in order to maintain the resources to some degree aka The homeostasis of that environment you would need to invest in the area to some degree simply by virtue of it being nearby your developed areas. Conservation of land, land stewardship, many cultures have deeply rooted traditions and practices around it, modern or not.
@@XercinVex Well, if they want to make that argument, it should reflect the realistic costs. Right now, it costs more (scaling up rapidly, to as much as 50x) to maintain an undeveloped oil field than it does to maintain all of the development on that oil field. Or the land under the fire station costs more to maintain than the fire station costs, because developed land still has upkeep.
@@XercinVex There is no inherent cost for undeveloped land. There is no upkeep, because there's nothing to upkeep. There's property taxes/land taxes, but city governments collect those taxes, they don't pay them.
Hi Phil! I want to talk a little about the row homes. They don't have any gardens in the back. I don't know about how it is in the US, but here in Sweden, row homes typically have gardens, or back yards, just like normal single family houses. In the asset itself, it doesn't seem to have any fencing behind the building itself. You could use a fence prop (if there is one) to add gardens to the back. Here in Sweden, they're typically look like backyards in single family houses, but I know that in the UK, they are longer than they are wide. Here in Sweden, we also have huge, sprawling row home estates. Maybe you could dedicate an episode of Magnolia County to that. Maybe you could build a row house district in Paradise Bay. For reference, I reccomend searching "Lambohov" in Linköping Sweden, and "Sätra" in Gävle Sweden, on google maps.
Tile upkeep needs to be changed. But also, we need a small, normal and large version of all services. Not just in regards to size being terrible when you are trying to build small community, but also in regards to upkeep. Do my new little city really need a graveyard with 5000 graves?. Does it really need a recycling center that is meant for a city with a 100.000 people? nope and nope. The game also needs a sort of specialization system like Simcity 2013, that was one thing it did well. You could earn a lot of money by specializing, but it took time, education and research to get there.
I think the building upkeep is a more useful mechanic than the tile upkeep. It reflects actual usage versus potential usage. It reflects sidewalk repairs, electrical maintenance, and landscaping of used spaces compared to having to pay upkeep on undeveloped land that has minimal realized value. Wages also could be viewed as a positive(or less of a negative than fees that just go poof) from buildings because that cash goes to residents that can then spend it on commercial goods and building upgrades.
Buildings upkeep is A: already in the game on service buildings B: Non governmental buildings are private aka govt doesn’t pay and if anything you just abstract it as decrease in taxes
@@TeamOrbitRL if you have the mod enabled and you to options, there should be a section that says 529 tiles, and there should be an option to change the tile upkeep. you could even make it 0 if you wanted to
Man, thanks a lot to the last video. Save my game and my plans for my magnolia, because I would give up on the save because of the amount of resources and the costs to upkeep the current and future lands lol Now, i can continue to build. thanks a lot
The game is completely different if you start a new city. Jumping into an established city you have a large pool of money to use to "save" yourself. In a new city, you start bleeding money and it's hard to overcome. The reason is that we got used to playing the game a certain way, and now a year later those rules don't apply anymore. It makes the game feel harder than it really is. You have to unlearn everything and learn the new ways. I think it will be more fun for new players than older ones, but people are going to need some serious time with the new system to really relearn things.
I started a new city without all tiles, and now I’m stuck at level 5 because my money is in the negative even though I’m gaining 4,000+ per hour. This update is not fun for casual players
when i finally get the game on console, i turning money off. as a casual player who just wants to build a realistic city & not micromanage, it needs to be turned off
When I was filling out the survey they just sent out, I realized my biggest problem with "tile upkeep" is...the name. I mean the mechanic also has problems, but the big problem is that calling it "tile upkeep" makes it a **game mechanic** and not a **city management mechanic**!
I really like your series because it is not only fun to watch, but you are building a community similar to my grandmas in michigan. And a year ago, her town shut down a bunch of services and buildings because the budget had changed, right after a massive surge of new people. The parallels are uncanny, and you are an amazing youtuber.
Updates like this are actually kinda cool because they kinda act like a macro environment which from a perspective adds to the experience. In terms of realism, reacting to crazy changes in economy is possible
I started a new city, found out that the best way to not run out of money until I can modify taxes is to expand very quickly, and my city kinda looked like if had no overarching design, so it looks kinda extra realistic bc of that! Then the game crashed while trying to autosave and I lost all of it
I loved this episode! The city has been expanding like crazy so it was nice to take a moment and focus on quality of life and city services (even if it was sort of forced by the patch)
I'm so frustrated by the new update. I started a new city and managed to balance the budget, but the unemployment hovers around 40% regardless of what I do. The game tells me to zone more industrial to fix this, so now my town of 10k people has to dedicate half of its land to factories in order for residential demand to come back. It's so frustrating -- I waited so long for this patch and it still feels unbalanced to play. Hoping that a mod will fix the unemployment silliness soon.
You need to build more schools and offices because some people just do not want to work in factories. I had this same issue but building schools including colleges and universities basically ended unemployment.
I see your point. You cannot just have a glut of people sitting around. Schools and universities need massive upgrades for all these unemployed folks and it takes a long time to done with school.
It has been months since I’ve seen your videos due to military training at the beginning of the year and man it’s so nice to just watch you play these games again and not stress before I sleep. Shout out City planner plays
I tried building on a vanilla map and you simply get bankrupt pretty fast because you have no resources. Vanilla maps need an update as well. Most of them are just bad with low buildable area
Had this problem too, the vanilla tiles are too small and most of the times the terrain is bad as well, its very hard to get more than 15k pop in the first 9 tiles while the city looks good, and new tiles are absurdly expensive.
I dunno what it is but i love this video so much. The economy map and seeing tbe realistic sizing of business with wages makes so much more sense. I use to go to RL city council meetings and now I understand...
I knida feel the Roleplay event for this update is 'the government sent in an inspector and realised there had been a cleric error, or some corruption, and magnolia county had to pay serious fines, as they are also forced to restructor their economy.'
I managed to hit a sweet spot, my city was running a 0% residential tax rate before this patch. 2% now and I am making quite a bit of cash with a 240k pop
Some great work fixing up MC and showing how to balance the budget in Econ2. Great a see a new proper video! I just don’t have the time or inclination for livestreams and a new upload notification for the channel no longer brings the same instant excitement that it used to 😢 But I’ll look forward to new videos as they arrive!
I think they should replace tile upkeep with an expanded City Administration system. The game should determine the city’s Administrative Need (the number of Administrative positions requred for the city government to function properly). Let’s say 1 administrative position should be created for every x square kilometers of land owned beyond the starting area (water and resources shouldn’t be a factor) and 1 for every 10000 people. This would require them to add a smaller government office building that unlocks with one of the first milestones that increase the Administrative Capacity of the city (the City Hall should perform a similar function but it’d be too expensive and overkill for a new town). So if a city has an Administrative Need of 6 and an Administrative Capacity of 10, the building will create 6 Admin jobs and have room for 4 more before you’d need to build another Administrative Building. If a city’s Administrative Need exceeds the Administrative Capacity, the overall efficiency of all administrative buildings city-wide should decline AND employee wages should go UP to reflect all the overtime those poor government employees would be working. Instead of an arbitrary fee, the money pit would be replaced by the wages you are paying a growing government bureaucracy.
This undoubtedly is the best expansion that you could work with Phill. It must feel like you're brushing the cobwebs off your old work desk at the planning office.
This is really great! I’m excited for how this downscales the build and gives you more milestones (such as working to build larger service buildings) to achieve. Seems like the tile maintenance just needs to be revised for how it scales - start low and increase with how many you unlock by some formula rather than be tied to resources available on said tile. Maybe each additional tile costs .5% more in maintenance than the last one or something like that - not sure how that would work out since I still haven’t played CS2 yet, but it seems like some mechanic like this would work if the goal is to keep the endgame challenging.
The problem is that it actually *does* scale, per the latest Dev Diary. And it scales *exponentially* with each new tile purchased, for *every* tile you own. It’s really kind of brutal tbh.
One bad thing about high tile fees is that I like to build ring roads around my city center to spread traffic and divert traffic instead into one big "cul-du-sac."
For the tile upkeep, I have a couple thoughts on it. First, it does seem excessive when you consider it’s using resources as a calculation. However, I would think of it as a super simplified version of quantifying certain aspects of local government. In the city I work for, we issued development bonds to entice companies to move here, or we’ll create tax allocation districts to reinvest public money in blighted areas. It could also be a way of indicating public spending that may not fall into a currently existing departmental budget, like when cities contract out for pay studies or employee appreciation/employee assistance programs, etc.
You touched on this in one of your streams I think, but I would like to add that the idea of tile upkeep is good in that the player is encouraged to utilize empty land that brings in no money. It is a game difficulty thing but should probably be made in a different way… PS love to download your streams on long family roadtrips on yt
i understand the cost cutting, but the incenerator pollutes, so... "bring the recycling center back, don't kill the air we breathe!!", please, thank you
Never been more thankfull to play in a realistic manner Editor Everie note: If we have Tile Upkeep, we should have Tile Selling mechanics that refunds us or an easier fee
Unrelated to CS2, but gotta love how CPP looks exactly like his voice sounds. So many times you hear someone for a long time and when you first see their face it throws you for a loop CPP however, matches perfectly. Also, it’s neither a good nor bad thing, just a thing.
I think the resource-based tile upkeep actually makes sense: More valuable potential -> more valuable tiles However, it probably should be taken relative to total availabily, and also take into account when multiple resources are in conflict so you can't possibly realize both of them. Those two changes might be enough to make custom maps with more extensive resources viable.
Found a beautiful custom map, and have been building a city around a forestry industry on a large hill as a historical story. It's great with the new industries stuff
RE: the telcom tower, I honestly think it should be placed on the hill above bend. Realistically, large infrastructure like that would be placed where it would have the greatest unobstructed range, which often means the tallest hill available. Also, my hometown has several towers of that size spread throughout the hill areas. Most of them are at the top of hills, where they visually dwarf the surrounding area. Side note, almost all of them have some park/nature area development around them, which could be a fun project. For example, the one closest to my house is near several green spaces and acts as a central link for trails going between them.
Way late to watching this video but thank you for mentioning us console players! My immediate reaction to tile upkeep being determined by resources in the tile was disappointment. Hopefully this changes in the future
Now that I finally could get in this episode, I can say that I thought it would be much more challenging that it was on my city. Maybe the beginning now is more difficult than it was before.
Having the ability to turn the monthly tile cost of is a good thing, being able to see the max wages upkeep for a building is an essential thing that is missing.
For Me here's what I had to fix - Death Wave - Installed more crematoriums - Traffic Mayhem - Massive influx in traffic. I had to get creative and create new off ramps ensuring a smooth steady flow of traffic of where they were trying to go - Schools - Huge wave of increase for Elementary, High School and College, so have hard to start building more - Money - So for me, this wasn't a problem. Reason why I was already importing and exporting and using the resources of heavy oil, ore, forestry and farming creating a huge cash flow. I'm still right around 2 Billion dollars and continue making $250,000 plus a month.
I had to raise taxes a lot to accommodate for Economy 2.0. I was only at 6% across the board but, after the patch, had to raise taxes as high as 22% for Commercial. Industrial and Office couldn't be raise above 10 & 11% respectively, without completely losing demand. Most City Services were chopped to 90% with Fees being raised to 110% where possible. Also, had to reset all tiles and only purchase what I'd previously edited (roads, timber, etc.). Most importantly though, I really had to work at balancing Population and Unemployment. This one change made a HUGE difference. At 30,000 population, I was losing over 1 million/month at 20 - 25% unemployment. Income balances around 18% unemployment (I believe) with income between $500,000 - 1 mil monthly at 12% unemployment. What I can't understand for the life of me is Tourism? I've plenty of Tourists but I'm losing money whereas before, I was making close to $1.5 mil/month on Tourism alone. Lastly, still have a few High Rent icons because Teenagers seem to be living in low-pop housing sometimes. All of the above, prolly me doing something (or many things wrong). I love City Builders but must confess, I kinda such at them.
For balancing, I think they should let the first 3 tiles you buy after you initial tiles have no upkeep, just like your initial tiles. Then make resources affect the purchasing cost rather than the upkeep cost. This way you can expand a little bit at the start with less pressure and custom maps can still have a higher distribution of resources without making it impossible. Then I would raise the upkeep cost on roads and tracks, scaling with the number of tiles purchased.
I dont have tile upkeep issues but a huge employment one. And a lot of my residents were homeless even with vacant homes. Maybe they couldn't afford homes due to unemployment but it was showing that homeless people were wealthy?
Fun fact: German cities usually don’t have a skyline, so often the first building you will see when approaching a larger city will be the telecom tower
@AwesomeSheep48 I don't know, to be honest. I remember there was a massive desinformation campaign against Chuckles during the elections, and he lost because of that. But I could be wrong
Completely agree on the tile upkeep overhaul being a step in the wrong direction or CO should rethink how to approach resource distribution - without modded maps, it's impossible to build rural communities or play in a natural historical growth style. Their recent dev diary also didn't impress me either, where it was suggested that if you need outside service connections but can't afford the tiles that the recommended approach is to "just buy up ocean tiles and build a really long bridge", which at that point even locks us out of landlocked maps. When I tried a new city after the update on a modded map, I wound up having to slash every service and shove zoning down in a grid as fast as possible to avoid running out of money even with just 9 starting tiles. It's a step in the right direction for the game, but I think I'd like to see some more polish work on some of these changes. (Then again, I can also appreciate the challenge of trying to meet a very diverse set of ways people play the game!)
I would say that for the tile upkeep cost. They could give us the options of how the tile mode gave you!! That way we have proper customisation to the upkeep.
34:12 The smokestacks, Phil... THE SMOKESTACKS. Also, those radio towers arent just for bandwidth, they act as emergency alert towers. Check the descriptions!
Tile upkeep needs to be adjustable by map creators so they can adjust the upkeep based on how fertile and difficult they want the map to be. Maybe some slider with a behind-the-scenes calculator that shows the results of tile value vs what the vanilla experience expects. Let's say with vanilla resources and tile expense you get 100/tile in upkeep. A fertile map with default sliders comes in at 200/tile and the menu warns you by displaying "Tile Upkeep: Very High". The creator can then adjust a slider to, say, 60% upkeep and the menu display switches to "Tile Upkeep: Slightly Raised". The creator keeps sliding to 50% and the display shows "Tile Upkeep: Balanced". Heck, you could even go a step further and let players adjust the upkeep cost when starting a new map as a difficulty option. Finally, the other issue to tile upkeep I see is there is no way to have outlying communities without buying tiles for road and rail networks. Allowing players access to basic road/rail placement and minor terraforming on unclaimed tiles. This would allow building access to outlying communities and make players weigh the challenges of adapting to terrain features versus paying the upkeep costs on undeveloped land for more terrain control.
I'm curious if taxes are as if the city government was a federal government or not, but by the way things are taxed (wages and company profits) I will suppose it is. So I have an idea, instead of having land fees to fill the rest of the budget in upkeep (supposing the devs put that land fee because they searched for real upkeep and wages and that didn't make the game much harder), there should be an adjustable pension and a social assistence policy that is also adjustable (as it can take even half the federal budget, so its a major expense that isn't included in the game), where if it is too low there will be poverty, homelessness and death. The tax rate being in the practic capped at 12% is unrealistic and to be able to pay all those services with just that is also unrealistic, the devs should search how much companies and people make and how much and at which point taxes affect atractiveness as reference. For further development there should be a dlc where you are able to privatize services, partially or totally, I was thinking of having something like a central bank and commercial banks making it possible to change interest rate but I think that is too deep in the economy for that game. Yes, I am someone who cares more about the economy and I know the devs might not have that vision for the game but I think I have really good suggestions.
My city totally exploded... went from like 50 000 ppl, now up to 160 000. Schools, workplaces.. everything is out of balance. But it´s great fun to fix.
I gave up on City Skylines a bit ago just because I got to the point where I was making so much money I had zero residential tax and max services. Now I want to go back to see how my city will fare.
Thanks for the video. Really scratching my head trying to fix my city. In my 100k pop. city, after the update I saw the expected death wave and high tile upkeep. What I didn’t expect was my service costs tripling and my income falling to a fraction of what it was. Demand for every single one of my industries shrank to nothing and so far hasn’t come back even after continuing for several in game months. All of my office buildings instantly became empty and unemployment soared to over 60%. Still losing over $6million per month after trying everything I could think of or find. I’m thinking my city is just not salvageable anymore, and I’m sad to say goodbye to it
I see that my "let the game cook in the oven for a while before you consider buying it" strategy is still pretty sound. I am pleased to see a working economy though, so hopefully it all hammers out nicely someday.
I started a new town. Kashyyyk has been steadily growing, and after a few levels we are slightly in the green. I want to get an ore industrial area open soon, but it will require some road building outside my city limits with anarchy. The cost is not yet determined but it will be an Interchange and 6-7km of roads, to reach the area. Then that tile purchase. Large endeavors for the community.
After the update, I entered my city with a population of 54 thousand. Taxes were 6%. Even though I kept it at 6% after the update, I did not experience any problems and the city still has an economic surplus.
One thing that happened to me is my offices went to the shitter for like two months, with zero demand on it, no employees or just empty buildings everywhere. Eventually it rebounded and corrected itself (I also replaced some of the office buildings for residential). But it's good to note some budget issues can be solved with time more than changes with this update.
My build had no issues with the transition. The county was highly decentralised, without wasted tile,; low density, and was a net exporter of energy. It had all the primary industries already established. It was just matter of letting nature take its course.
I have noticed that the police budget can be set to 50% with one facility for a long time before needing raise the budget. You might want to look at that as an option to put your city in the green.
Really interested to see where the the future story of the county goes with the Economy 2.0 Update, incredibly hyped for the next video because of it. I'm sure the government, the citizens, basically everyone is going to be incredibly accepting and have well thought out responses to losing prime jewels of fire and police stations :) At least with the new telecom towers, they can voice their said well thought out opinions online.
Three attempts to save my city have failed. After 3 or 4 hours suddenly my outside rail connections pop the message. Scary that a city stable at 70,000 and 5% unemployment balloons to 100,000 and 35% unemployment.. It bustes my trains even though I was leaving them totally alone....three times!! Guess is its simply a Bad player thing.
Had to have a small chuckle when you removed the second, apparently very profitable dock to save costs and then your multi-thousand surplus suddenly went about 20k in the other direction... or was that down to something not shown on screen? Nice adjust to E2.0 though, masterfully done.
Huge shout out to Rocket Money for sponsoring the video!
Check out Rocket Money for free: RocketMoney.com/CityPlanner #rocketmoney #personalfinance
I didn't play this game because when its Relase I gave up on it. Ever going to built a Citie that dosent look alike the Last one. Im creative Builder with no money Problems. I wanted to wait until I can use my Mods I need or something like the Workshop comes that we have more Decorative Items to use not only those they give us and that were less then alot.
And the Houses European or North American always have those grey dark Grey look. So not fun.
I mostly use to built an ongoing Megalopolis but in this game there is so much going on that you cant built a City like that. And if you do the Lag is so bad you cant play anymore
And if I see people like you playing I understand you have a better computer then I have with my NVIDIA RTX 4060 not good enough I believe.
U can only built spread out US American Cities but not Compact European Cities. And if you want to built Mediterranian for a change you have download the new DCL with Simple 3 Palmtrees and a Bush 6 Different Kind of Building that look from Level 1 to Level 5 almost the Same thats a joke.
I like the idea that when the city updated to the new economy that there was a global economic recession and therefore the governmental budgets got slashed to make ends meet.
This should be part of the story!
I've been telling myself the death wave (and subsequent economic turbulence) has been caused by a new pandemic... the "E2" virus.
I was dying to know what the explanation in-game would be and that's such an amazing idea!!!
@@GavinBisesiITS IN THE LORE!!!
This... This is Genius
I have a feeling that Phil might be losing his city planning job in Magnolia County after draining the city budget for fun lol
I've a feeling that he's in that category of government employee that's *very* hard to get rid of, no matter what they do..
@@vinceontheweb he just wants to live on the edge. introduce some additional challenge to the game.
@@simongeard4824 He's Donald Trump of Magnolia County. Unsinkable.
Ironicly, it's not that far off the loss of profit a lot of actual councils bleed in real life, albeit not in just one quarter.
He's just simulating embezzlement.
What is REALLY annoying about the tile upkeep feature is it's basically the OPPOSITE of subsidies. Before 2.0 we were getting free money from the government and there was no transparency. Now we're giving away free money to the government and there is no transparency.
Most of the other changes make sense, are realistic, and introduce meaningful challenge to the game.
Really depends on how the "country" is structured the city is in. One of the most valuable resource in the world is land. It's limited and valuable. So, having the city pay the country's government for using the country's land and making money from it doesn't seem so far fetched in my opinion.
@@NPSao I agree in principle with the concept that land choices have consequences (although I think they’ve executed it poorly)-but I also think there is an argument that the opportunity cost alone of making the initial purchase of the tile more prohibitive would have been sufficient.
I’m making a more general observation about the game mechanics. We’ve traded one loathsome and unloved feature for another.
And it seems to me particularly vexing and problematic that this was the one feature of which they didn’t inform us in the dev diaries prior to release.
Given all of the bad feelings around their communications style this feels like more of the same and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
I couldn't help thinking that the guy doing the tile upkeep redo was the one guy who still resented the criticism and insults by players from the release, a retaliatry troll. "Oh, 'it's fun to lose' you say? 'it should be a challenge' you say? Chew on this haters!"
A lot of cities in real life must pay rent to the local natives for the right to exist since the town lies inside a reservation. You could pretend that the upkeep is such a payment.
just asking for a mod to fix this. city skylines man 🫠🫠
In my city of 200k the only things I noticed were the death wave and the performance being even worse than it was, while still making absurd loads of money, so I decided to start a new city. And oh boy, the increase in the difficulty level was noticable
The performance is probably worse due to the death wave and all the other stuff. It was fine when it settled for me. But it can take an hour or two.
The performance got good again after letting it run for a while. I was confused for a while why it was so bad, then it got good again suddenly
@@tobbakken2911It’s cause of all the hearse pathing. 😂
Had to take out loans a lot in the beginning now with a 60k pop city I make 2 mil a month 😂
I don't mind the challenge of Economy 2.0, but the tile fee should be more reasonable.
Probably have it manipulated to be easier on custom maps especially
I’d like to see how it works on a new build. It seems pretty drastic when applied to an existing one. But on the whole, I like that it’s a challenge and forces you to make decisions
You can turn it off with mods
The fee is calculated based on mostly the availability of natural resources. CPP's world is full of fertile land which massively increases the price of all the tiles
Its gonna encourage people to build smaller and denser communities which is fine, but I feel allowing people to buy disconnected tiles and stuff in CS2 was a huge thing for people who build smaller settlements all over the map, who are the people who'll struggle the most with this. Hopefully this is just a placeholder while they actually work on fixing the cost of services properly and this is a temporary difficulty boost and they'll rebalance services to be more punishing as the final long term solution
Heres an idea to fix tile upkeep: allow construction in locked tiles, with no tax income from them. Essentially, locked=county, unlocked=annexed to the city. This would fix the problem of needing to unlock a tile just to build a length of highway. You could build farms and specialized industry outside of annexed tiles, attracting residents at the cost of making no revenue; then annex tiles that are worth paying upkeep for. It’s not just a quick patch for tile upkeep, either; it would allow for more natural, dispersed regional growth, instead of oddly blocky development of one tile at a time like I do now.
I love this idea!
@@NoDecaf7 I likey. Highway and train corridors could be treated like county property leased to city, allows utility transfer routes but no development; with a tiny upkeep relative to tile purchase. Closer to real life.
Yes! Needs to be something like this. Restricting all infrastructure to squares rather than the actual geography and common sense of what's needed is what makes the whole tile thing so annoying.
So sad to see all the custom builds go :( Especially the sewage treatment plant for some reason broke my heart :
When he build a lot of these, I was a bit shocked at the over-sizing of the buildings. They didn't really feel realistic. I'm glad that Economy 2.0 is forcing more realistic choices and decision making.
Hey, you may want to check your office buildings and see if they all have 5 employees. There is currently a bug, already reported on the paradox forums, where your office buildings slowly decrease the number of people employed until there is only 5. This could be the cause of your low office tax revenue and high unemployment.
For sure seeing that one as well.
There is a mod that 'fixes' the issue currently. It doesnt solve the underlying problem of offices not selling their goods.
The mod does help until a fix is provided. It's called "Profit Based Industry and Office". by Adwozo v1.2.1 (new version released this morning).
Yeah, the game is unplayable for me with this bug, no nammter what you do you get massive uneployment eventually.
At the end, you thanked us foe being here and watch you managing taxes and budget. And to be honest, this was one of the most if not THE most enjoyable episode of this series for me, because now the game really became a game, instead of just beauty fluff without any consequence or one of these beautifull-but-not-working cities. And that's why I came to your channel, because you build cities that not only look nice, but also work. Great work!
♻️ Phil! While Michigan has a very low number of items banned from landfills. Wisconsin has a landfill ban on recyclables that requires local municipalities to recycle cans, cardboard, paper, glass and some plastics. It is an expensive but required part of local government budgets.
Sad to see that the laws in Superior follow the MI example and not WI. I guess County Executive Chuck King is right when he says the state doesn’t prioritize the environment.
37:57 i agree that the telcom tower might dwarf the skyline if it's placed atop the hill, but generally large communications structures near urban areas are built atop hills so that they have a longer transmission range. they also have the potential to look like a cool monument-- take the sutro tower in san francisco for example, which serves many of the city's tv and radio stations.
They don't build higher for longer transmission range. It actually slightly reduces the range technically. They do it so the transmission has less "shadows" from structures and the quality of the coverage is better in the area it's in.
Think of it like having a table lamp on the floor and lifting it up onto a table. The floor isn't as bright (lower ranges), but the shadows it casts are shorter due to the angle (better coverage quality)
Thank you so much for using my mod! It really bothered me not seeing my balance on the main UI, I have also added in the population per hour as well :)
I chose not to start any of my existing cities in the new economy -- the high-rent bug was so annoying that I never invested enough time in any city to care. So, first of all, I appreciate that you're NOT doing that because you have invested in this city series!
The new city I started is TOTALY more challenging. I still haven't been able to place a school because I can't afford it yet :-D I still don't like how early the game drives you to density, but I am still so much happier with an early-game economy that makes you make choices again.
"How early the game drives you to density" That's the exact opposite of my experience. I'm trying to build a dense city, styled after New York, but anything other than single family homes just doesn't get built or gets abandoned after a while.
Tile upkeep feels really kludgy, like they tried making the game harder but couldn't get cities to work with more expensive service upkeeps, so they just added a money drain. And rather than just making it an arbitrary "you must be this profitable to safely open the next tile" they based it on resources, which is just baffling. Undeveloped land doesn't need upkeep, it's undeveloped.
Building upgrades not showing the number of workers that need paying is also a massive oversight. I guess you could buy the upgrade and then reduce spending on that service city- or district-wide, but just having the wages rolled into the upkeep (or a second pane) would be far better.
I sense a followup patch to fix these weird decisions.
That’s the thing though, if it’s “owned” land, undeveloped or not there is upkeep associated with it. Government level or private you still have costs associated with “owning” that land. And it’s reasonable to assume that in order to maintain the resources to some degree aka The homeostasis of that environment you would need to invest in the area to some degree simply by virtue of it being nearby your developed areas. Conservation of land, land stewardship, many cultures have deeply rooted traditions and practices around it, modern or not.
@@XercinVex Well, if they want to make that argument, it should reflect the realistic costs. Right now, it costs more (scaling up rapidly, to as much as 50x) to maintain an undeveloped oil field than it does to maintain all of the development on that oil field. Or the land under the fire station costs more to maintain than the fire station costs, because developed land still has upkeep.
@@XercinVex There is no inherent cost for undeveloped land. There is no upkeep, because there's nothing to upkeep. There's property taxes/land taxes, but city governments collect those taxes, they don't pay them.
Hi Phil!
I want to talk a little about the row homes. They don't have any gardens in the back. I don't know about how it is in the US, but here in Sweden, row homes typically have gardens, or back yards, just like normal single family houses. In the asset itself, it doesn't seem to have any fencing behind the building itself. You could use a fence prop (if there is one) to add gardens to the back.
Here in Sweden, they're typically look like backyards in single family houses, but I know that in the UK, they are longer than they are wide.
Here in Sweden, we also have huge, sprawling row home estates. Maybe you could dedicate an episode of Magnolia County to that. Maybe you could build a row house district in Paradise Bay.
For reference, I reccomend searching "Lambohov" in Linköping Sweden, and "Sätra" in Gävle Sweden, on google maps.
Here in New York City - particularly in Brooklyn, row homes definitely have backyards. They are usually separated from each other by fences.
@@loogoo in Chicago (outside of it) we have backyards. But gardens aren't for everyone. Not everyone has them.
@@TrevorD19 Hi Trevor
I thought that 'garden' was the same as 'backyard', but please correct me if I'm wrong
@@ZaryabNaveed-rj5ov Oh. Garden is somewhere you grow vegetables.
Ooh
Didnt know the rust belt exists now in CS2
Tile upkeep needs to be changed. But also, we need a small, normal and large version of all services. Not just in regards to size being terrible when you are trying to build small community, but also in regards to upkeep. Do my new little city really need a graveyard with 5000 graves?. Does it really need a recycling center that is meant for a city with a 100.000 people? nope and nope.
The game also needs a sort of specialization system like Simcity 2013, that was one thing it did well. You could earn a lot of money by specializing, but it took time, education and research to get there.
I think the building upkeep is a more useful mechanic than the tile upkeep. It reflects actual usage versus potential usage. It reflects sidewalk repairs, electrical maintenance, and landscaping of used spaces compared to having to pay upkeep on undeveloped land that has minimal realized value. Wages also could be viewed as a positive(or less of a negative than fees that just go poof) from buildings because that cash goes to residents that can then spend it on commercial goods and building upgrades.
Buildings upkeep is A: already in the game on service buildings B: Non governmental buildings are private aka govt doesn’t pay and if anything you just abstract it as decrease in taxes
if anyone doesn't want to deal with the tile fee, just use the 529 tile mod, it lets you adjust the tile fee in the settings
where can I find tile fee settings
@@TeamOrbitRL if you have the mod enabled and you to options, there should be a section that says 529 tiles, and there should be an option to change the tile upkeep. you could even make it 0 if you wanted to
Man, thanks a lot to the last video. Save my game and my plans for my magnolia, because I would give up on the save because of the amount of resources and the costs to upkeep the current and future lands lol Now, i can continue to build. thanks a lot
The game is completely different if you start a new city. Jumping into an established city you have a large pool of money to use to "save" yourself.
In a new city, you start bleeding money and it's hard to overcome. The reason is that we got used to playing the game a certain way, and now a year later those rules don't apply anymore. It makes the game feel harder than it really is. You have to unlearn everything and learn the new ways.
I think it will be more fun for new players than older ones, but people are going to need some serious time with the new system to really relearn things.
Ngl this new update is a little too hard for us casual players. I just wanna have a functioning city without every city service having a 50% budget.
I started a new city without all tiles, and now I’m stuck at level 5 because my money is in the negative even though I’m gaining 4,000+ per hour.
This update is not fun for casual players
when i finally get the game on console, i turning money off. as a casual player who just wants to build a realistic city & not micromanage, it needs to be turned off
When I was filling out the survey they just sent out, I realized my biggest problem with "tile upkeep" is...the name. I mean the mechanic also has problems, but the big problem is that calling it "tile upkeep" makes it a **game mechanic** and not a **city management mechanic**!
Tile maintenance should be infrastructure based more than resource based. Or at least fertile land should not be in the calculation.
it’s like a new state governor was elected and changed everything lol
I really like your series because it is not only fun to watch, but you are building a community similar to my grandmas in michigan. And a year ago, her town shut down a bunch of services and buildings because the budget had changed, right after a massive surge of new people. The parallels are uncanny, and you are an amazing youtuber.
Updates like this are actually kinda cool because they kinda act like a macro environment which from a perspective adds to the experience. In terms of realism, reacting to crazy changes in economy is possible
I really wish this game had a mutual aid mechanic for EMS/fire. It would make balancing the budget more realistic
I started a new city, found out that the best way to not run out of money until I can modify taxes is to expand very quickly, and my city kinda looked like if had no overarching design, so it looks kinda extra realistic bc of that!
Then the game crashed while trying to autosave and I lost all of it
💀
Yup, I know that feeling all too well...
I loved this episode! The city has been expanding like crazy so it was nice to take a moment and focus on quality of life and city services (even if it was sort of forced by the patch)
I'm so frustrated by the new update. I started a new city and managed to balance the budget, but the unemployment hovers around 40% regardless of what I do. The game tells me to zone more industrial to fix this, so now my town of 10k people has to dedicate half of its land to factories in order for residential demand to come back. It's so frustrating -- I waited so long for this patch and it still feels unbalanced to play. Hoping that a mod will fix the unemployment silliness soon.
Yeah I have the same issue. Endless demand for industrial zones, high unemployment and I only just was able to afford a university at 100k lol
raise industrial taxes to 12-13% and let the population age.
Unemployment low-education people will explode your industrial demand, even if goods aren't needed. Build some schools
You need to build more schools and offices because some people just do not want to work in factories. I had this same issue but building schools including colleges and universities basically ended unemployment.
I see your point. You cannot just have a glut of people sitting around. Schools and universities need massive upgrades for all these unemployed folks and it takes a long time to done with school.
City Planner Phil : I. LOVE. DEMOCRACY.
Also City Planner Phil: *deletes recycling center*
It has been months since I’ve seen your videos due to military training at the beginning of the year and man it’s so nice to just watch you play these games again and not stress before I sleep. Shout out City planner plays
I tried building on a vanilla map and you simply get bankrupt pretty fast because you have no resources. Vanilla maps need an update as well. Most of them are just bad with low buildable area
Had this problem too, the vanilla tiles are too small and most of the times the terrain is bad as well, its very hard to get more than 15k pop in the first 9 tiles while the city looks good, and new tiles are absurdly expensive.
I dunno what it is but i love this video so much. The economy map and seeing tbe realistic sizing of business with wages makes so much more sense. I use to go to RL city council meetings and now I understand...
I knida feel the Roleplay event for this update is 'the government sent in an inspector and realised there had been a cleric error, or some corruption, and magnolia county had to pay serious fines, as they are also forced to restructor their economy.'
I managed to hit a sweet spot, my city was running a 0% residential tax rate before this patch. 2% now and I am making quite a bit of cash with a 240k pop
Some great work fixing up MC and showing how to balance the budget in Econ2.
Great a see a new proper video! I just don’t have the time or inclination for livestreams and a new upload notification for the channel no longer brings the same instant excitement that it used to 😢
But I’ll look forward to new videos as they arrive!
Hey Phil, you're in the red because you deleted a shipping route that was in the port you deleted, you should put it back in the other port.
I moved it over to the other port! Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. The train line moved as well.
@@CityPlannerPlays perfect then. Since you were in the green, deleted the port and went into red instantaneously, I assumed it was that.
I think they should replace tile upkeep with an expanded City Administration system. The game should determine the city’s Administrative Need (the number of Administrative positions requred for the city government to function properly). Let’s say 1 administrative position should be created for every x square kilometers of land owned beyond the starting area (water and resources shouldn’t be a factor) and 1 for every 10000 people.
This would require them to add a smaller government office building that unlocks with one of the first milestones that increase the Administrative Capacity of the city (the City Hall should perform a similar function but it’d be too expensive and overkill for a new town). So if a city has an Administrative Need of 6 and an Administrative Capacity of 10, the building will create 6 Admin jobs and have room for 4 more before you’d need to build another Administrative Building. If a city’s Administrative Need exceeds the Administrative Capacity, the overall efficiency of all administrative buildings city-wide should decline AND employee wages should go UP to reflect all the overtime those poor government employees would be working.
Instead of an arbitrary fee, the money pit would be replaced by the wages you are paying a growing government bureaucracy.
Personally I like it being tied to resources just on a game perspective.
But while we are the local government, we're probably not the state.
Wow, this new updated is kicking old saves butts lol. Was really fun seeing you fix everything tho, feel like I learned so much!
This undoubtedly is the best expansion that you could work with Phill. It must feel like you're brushing the cobwebs off your old work desk at the planning office.
Story wise, it will be interesting to that the adjustment to 2.0 is akin to an economic crisis.
This is really great! I’m excited for how this downscales the build and gives you more milestones (such as working to build larger service buildings) to achieve. Seems like the tile maintenance just needs to be revised for how it scales - start low and increase with how many you unlock by some formula rather than be tied to resources available on said tile. Maybe each additional tile costs .5% more in maintenance than the last one or something like that - not sure how that would work out since I still haven’t played CS2 yet, but it seems like some mechanic like this would work if the goal is to keep the endgame challenging.
The problem is that it actually *does* scale, per the latest Dev Diary. And it scales *exponentially* with each new tile purchased, for *every* tile you own. It’s really kind of brutal tbh.
@@RryhhbfrHhgdHhgd356Ah, I didn’t catch that. Hmmmm. Well, I have faith in CO to get it figured on out - they’ll get it right!
I'm thrilled to hear that education works!
This episode was super fascinating. Really cool to see how you dealt with all the changes to the game.
Hit 200k today. I'm really grateful for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months. Started with 14k in April ❤
One bad thing about high tile fees is that I like to build ring roads around my city center to spread traffic and divert traffic instead into one big "cul-du-sac."
For the tile upkeep, I have a couple thoughts on it. First, it does seem excessive when you consider it’s using resources as a calculation. However, I would think of it as a super simplified version of quantifying certain aspects of local government. In the city I work for, we issued development bonds to entice companies to move here, or we’ll create tax allocation districts to reinvest public money in blighted areas. It could also be a way of indicating public spending that may not fall into a currently existing departmental budget, like when cities contract out for pay studies or employee appreciation/employee assistance programs, etc.
You touched on this in one of your streams I think, but I would like to add that the idea of tile upkeep is good in that the player is encouraged to utilize empty land that brings in no money. It is a game difficulty thing but should probably be made in a different way…
PS love to download your streams on long family roadtrips on yt
i understand the cost cutting, but the incenerator pollutes, so... "bring the recycling center back, don't kill the air we breathe!!", please, thank you
Never been more thankfull to play in a realistic manner
Editor Everie note: If we have Tile Upkeep, we should have Tile Selling mechanics that refunds us or an easier fee
Unrelated to CS2, but gotta love how CPP looks exactly like his voice sounds. So many times you hear someone for a long time and when you first see their face it throws you for a loop CPP however, matches perfectly. Also, it’s neither a good nor bad thing, just a thing.
I blame Chuckles
I think the resource-based tile upkeep actually makes sense: More valuable potential -> more valuable tiles
However, it probably should be taken relative to total availabily, and also take into account when multiple resources are in conflict so you can't possibly realize both of them. Those two changes might be enough to make custom maps with more extensive resources viable.
This is the one I was waiting for... 🍿🍿
Thank you for the VOD. 🥃🥃
Found a beautiful custom map, and have been building a city around a forestry industry on a large hill as a historical story. It's great with the new industries stuff
Rocketmoney sponsorship on a video about economy 2.0 in CS2 was a genius move 👏👏👏
That incinerator plant is really technologically impressive, considering it has 75 garbage trucks deployed and only 65 employees.
it's exciting to see what looks and seeeems like a huuuge improvement to the feel of the game! :D
RE: the telcom tower, I honestly think it should be placed on the hill above bend. Realistically, large infrastructure like that would be placed where it would have the greatest unobstructed range, which often means the tallest hill available. Also, my hometown has several towers of that size spread throughout the hill areas. Most of them are at the top of hills, where they visually dwarf the surrounding area.
Side note, almost all of them have some park/nature area development around them, which could be a fun project. For example, the one closest to my house is near several green spaces and acts as a central link for trails going between them.
Way late to watching this video but thank you for mentioning us console players! My immediate reaction to tile upkeep being determined by resources in the tile was disappointment. Hopefully this changes in the future
Now that I finally could get in this episode, I can say that I thought it would be much more challenging that it was on my city. Maybe the beginning now is more difficult than it was before.
Having the ability to turn the monthly tile cost of is a good thing, being able to see the max wages upkeep for a building is an essential thing that is missing.
For Me here's what I had to fix
- Death Wave - Installed more crematoriums
- Traffic Mayhem - Massive influx in traffic. I had to get creative and create new off ramps ensuring a smooth steady flow of traffic of where they were trying to go
- Schools - Huge wave of increase for Elementary, High School and College, so have hard to start building more
- Money - So for me, this wasn't a problem. Reason why I was already importing and exporting and using the resources of heavy oil, ore, forestry and farming creating a huge cash flow. I'm still right around 2 Billion dollars and continue making $250,000 plus a month.
I had to raise taxes a lot to accommodate for Economy 2.0. I was only at 6% across the board but, after the patch, had to raise taxes as high as 22% for Commercial. Industrial and Office couldn't be raise above 10 & 11% respectively, without completely losing demand.
Most City Services were chopped to 90% with Fees being raised to 110% where possible.
Also, had to reset all tiles and only purchase what I'd previously edited (roads, timber, etc.).
Most importantly though, I really had to work at balancing Population and Unemployment. This one change made a HUGE difference.
At 30,000 population, I was losing over 1 million/month at 20 - 25% unemployment. Income balances around 18% unemployment (I believe) with income between $500,000 - 1 mil monthly at 12% unemployment.
What I can't understand for the life of me is Tourism? I've plenty of Tourists but I'm losing money whereas before, I was making close to $1.5 mil/month on Tourism alone.
Lastly, still have a few High Rent icons because Teenagers seem to be living in low-pop housing sometimes.
All of the above, prolly me doing something (or many things wrong). I love City Builders but must confess, I kinda such at them.
For balancing, I think they should let the first 3 tiles you buy after you initial tiles have no upkeep, just like your initial tiles. Then make resources affect the purchasing cost rather than the upkeep cost. This way you can expand a little bit at the start with less pressure and custom maps can still have a higher distribution of resources without making it impossible. Then I would raise the upkeep cost on roads and tracks, scaling with the number of tiles purchased.
I dont have tile upkeep issues but a huge employment one. And a lot of my residents were homeless even with vacant homes. Maybe they couldn't afford homes due to unemployment but it was showing that homeless people were wealthy?
Fun fact: German cities usually don’t have a skyline, so often the first building you will see when approaching a larger city will be the telecom tower
Fire the city governor! The entire county budget evaporated in a matter of seconds. Chuckles wouldn't let that happen.
Isn't he the current county executive?
@AwesomeSheep48 I don't know, to be honest. I remember there was a massive desinformation campaign against Chuckles during the elections, and he lost because of that. But I could be wrong
Hey, the economy 2.0 is a nice challenge. I would also like you to focus more on tourism in this build.
Completely agree on the tile upkeep overhaul being a step in the wrong direction or CO should rethink how to approach resource distribution - without modded maps, it's impossible to build rural communities or play in a natural historical growth style. Their recent dev diary also didn't impress me either, where it was suggested that if you need outside service connections but can't afford the tiles that the recommended approach is to "just buy up ocean tiles and build a really long bridge", which at that point even locks us out of landlocked maps. When I tried a new city after the update on a modded map, I wound up having to slash every service and shove zoning down in a grid as fast as possible to avoid running out of money even with just 9 starting tiles. It's a step in the right direction for the game, but I think I'd like to see some more polish work on some of these changes. (Then again, I can also appreciate the challenge of trying to meet a very diverse set of ways people play the game!)
That text trends thing is built into the game. I never play with mods and it was there last night.
I would say that for the tile upkeep cost. They could give us the options of how the tile mode gave you!! That way we have proper customisation to the upkeep.
i love keeping up with magnolia county, great video! :)
Phil you can hold the left button click to select multiple districts at once =)
34:12 The smokestacks, Phil... THE SMOKESTACKS.
Also, those radio towers arent just for bandwidth, they act as emergency alert towers. Check the descriptions!
Tile upkeep needs to be adjustable by map creators so they can adjust the upkeep based on how fertile and difficult they want the map to be.
Maybe some slider with a behind-the-scenes calculator that shows the results of tile value vs what the vanilla experience expects.
Let's say with vanilla resources and tile expense you get 100/tile in upkeep.
A fertile map with default sliders comes in at 200/tile and the menu warns you by displaying "Tile Upkeep: Very High". The creator can then adjust a slider to, say, 60% upkeep and the menu display switches to "Tile Upkeep: Slightly Raised". The creator keeps sliding to 50% and the display shows "Tile Upkeep: Balanced".
Heck, you could even go a step further and let players adjust the upkeep cost when starting a new map as a difficulty option.
Finally, the other issue to tile upkeep I see is there is no way to have outlying communities without buying tiles for road and rail networks. Allowing players access to basic road/rail placement and minor terraforming on unclaimed tiles. This would allow building access to outlying communities and make players weigh the challenges of adapting to terrain features versus paying the upkeep costs on undeveloped land for more terrain control.
I'm curious if taxes are as if the city government was a federal government or not, but by the way things are taxed (wages and company profits) I will suppose it is. So I have an idea, instead of having land fees to fill the rest of the budget in upkeep (supposing the devs put that land fee because they searched for real upkeep and wages and that didn't make the game much harder), there should be an adjustable pension and a social assistence policy that is also adjustable (as it can take even half the federal budget, so its a major expense that isn't included in the game), where if it is too low there will be poverty, homelessness and death. The tax rate being in the practic capped at 12% is unrealistic and to be able to pay all those services with just that is also unrealistic, the devs should search how much companies and people make and how much and at which point taxes affect atractiveness as reference. For further development there should be a dlc where you are able to privatize services, partially or totally, I was thinking of having something like a central bank and commercial banks making it possible to change interest rate but I think that is too deep in the economy for that game. Yes, I am someone who cares more about the economy and I know the devs might not have that vision for the game but I think I have really good suggestions.
My city totally exploded... went from like 50 000 ppl, now up to 160 000. Schools, workplaces.. everything is out of balance. But it´s great fun to fix.
I gave up on City Skylines a bit ago just because I got to the point where I was making so much money I had zero residential tax and max services. Now I want to go back to see how my city will fare.
Thanks for the video. Really scratching my head trying to fix my city. In my 100k pop. city, after the update I saw the expected death wave and high tile upkeep. What I didn’t expect was my service costs tripling and my income falling to a fraction of what it was. Demand for every single one of my industries shrank to nothing and so far hasn’t come back even after continuing for several in game months. All of my office buildings instantly became empty and unemployment soared to over 60%. Still losing over $6million per month after trying everything I could think of or find. I’m thinking my city is just not salvageable anymore, and I’m sad to say goodbye to it
I see that my "let the game cook in the oven for a while before you consider buying it" strategy is still pretty sound. I am pleased to see a working economy though, so hopefully it all hammers out nicely someday.
I started a new town. Kashyyyk has been steadily growing, and after a few levels we are slightly in the green. I want to get an ore industrial area open soon, but it will require some road building outside my city limits with anarchy. The cost is not yet determined but it will be an Interchange and 6-7km of roads, to reach the area. Then that tile purchase. Large endeavors for the community.
After the update, I entered my city with a population of 54 thousand. Taxes were 6%. Even though I kept it at 6% after the update, I did not experience any problems and the city still has an economic surplus.
Late night upload, let's gooo 🎉
Such a long processing time on this one! Hope you like it!
Under the road, right where it belongs. Got to love a classic.
One thing that happened to me is my offices went to the shitter for like two months, with zero demand on it, no employees or just empty buildings everywhere. Eventually it rebounded and corrected itself (I also replaced some of the office buildings for residential).
But it's good to note some budget issues can be solved with time more than changes with this update.
Really liked how you went through this, and your summary.
My build had no issues with the transition. The county was highly decentralised, without wasted tile,; low density, and was a net exporter of energy. It had all the primary industries already established. It was just matter of letting nature take its course.
6:30 Its sad, even in game to bring down cost, the public services get slashed
I have noticed that the police budget can be set to 50% with one facility for a long time before needing raise the budget. You might want to look at that as an option to put your city in the green.
Really interested to see where the the future story of the county goes with the Economy 2.0 Update, incredibly hyped for the next video because of it. I'm sure the government, the citizens, basically everyone is going to be incredibly accepting and have well thought out responses to losing prime jewels of fire and police stations :) At least with the new telecom towers, they can voice their said well thought out opinions online.
Three attempts to save my city have failed. After 3 or 4 hours suddenly my outside rail connections pop the message. Scary that a city stable at 70,000 and 5% unemployment balloons to 100,000 and 35% unemployment.. It bustes my trains even though I was leaving them totally alone....three times!! Guess is its simply a Bad player thing.
Had to have a small chuckle when you removed the second, apparently very profitable dock to save costs and then your multi-thousand surplus suddenly went about 20k in the other direction... or was that down to something not shown on screen? Nice adjust to E2.0 though, masterfully done.
I enjoyed watching all the changes and losing the superfluous buildings. It will be cool to use the space to do new things in the future.
Your number in the corner is not your budget - it is the hourly change rate. Just because it’s neutral, doesn’t mean revenue
L tile upkeep ❤