Why Keiko O'Brien Is Actually Not So Bad
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
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▶Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
01:09 - Meet Keiko/"She's so unhappy all the time!"
05:10 - Treating Keiko Like a Character: "Disaster"
12:53 - Keiko Moves to Deep Space Nine
15:27 - Keiko Stands Up for Science: "In the Hands of the Prophets"
21:22 - Keiko Refuses to Take "Dead" for an Answer: "Armageddon Game"
23:16 - Conclusion: Keiko, We Hardly Knew Ye
25:33 - Shoutouts, Plugs and Announcements - บันเทิง
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Keiko O'Brien is Botany Bae
This comment wins; everyone else go home. 😎🧐🤫
Part of me wants to make a Kahn joke, part a joke about the Genesis project.
But I just can't. That comment was perfect.
Botany Bae? Botany Bae?! Botany Bae!
You get an upvote, sir.
Oh you punny basterd, that's great
My fav Keiko moment comes when she calls out Miles’ racism towards Cardassians in season 1. “That was a really ugly thing you just said.”
I was hoping Steve would bring that up.
You can’t say Spoonheads in 2022!
Yes! That and her standing up for science-based education quickly won her my respect.
Loves that too. We love Obrienand so does she but she never excuses it or allows it
He fought a war with them his hatred was understandable
I LOVE on DS9 when Quark says "Keiko is having a baby" and Worf poops his pants and says "What? NOW?!?" and starts to plan his excuse for being away from the station when she's due.
* boop *
still amazes how well they wrote worf into the show
Worf: I'm going to be in the Delta Quadrant fighting Borg, so I cannot help the delivery...
🎉❤😆 He heard she was pregnant he was having PSDTNG FLASHBACKS 😂
I also liked Quark saying "I thought the females of your species carried your young"
While sending her off to Bajor for a botany expedition is certainly a convenient way to write her off the show for a time, I think it's also worth noting the insight the writers give to Bashir about Keiko's situation in the episode she leaves. When Miles talks about ideas to make her happy, Bashir rightly points out that despite being nice gestures, they don't resolve the key problem - that Keiko is a botanist whose career has been effectively ended by the move to DS9. In a way, it sounds like the writers admitting that they've stripped one of their secondary characters of many of the narrative possibilities she had.
Exactly 🙂
All of this. Keiko had every right to be unhappy about moving to DS9. She was a career woman, accustomed to using her brain to investigate scientific mysteries and she got shoved into the role of SAHM overnight and without much choice in the matter. I'd have been unhappy too. I was thrilled when the show finally put a spotlight on her perspective.
Btw, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with being a SAHM if that's your choice, but it clearly wasn't Keiko's preferred career.
@@punkinholler yes! Absolutely.
She wanted a balance, and was accustomed to it in Federation core worlds and Starfleet ships; it’s no surprise she was disappointed/upset with the situation on DS9. Going back and forth to Bajor was definitely a better balance for her, although the first year-long expedition strained things, her going back and forth for a few weeks at a time seemed to work quite well for their marriage.
The problem is Miles, he is meant to be the hero, and Keiko takes a lot of the heroism away just cuz she's a great character in her own right. And the only married couple, (before Worf and Dax) gave Keiko a significant importance to DS9/Trek overall.
Also - There were some fairly major stuff that took place on Bajor within the show's narrative. They could easily have given her either scenes dotted around a season relating to one of them, or a focus episode leading into that. Her Botany expedition to Bajor didn't have to write her out of the show for the bulk of a season. It could have tied her into one of the arcs.
I think a lot of people forget that Keiko expected to be moving to a station within transporter range of Bajor, a planet with lots of plant life she could've studied. But when she arrived her husband immediately steered it to the mouth of the wormhole.
Literally the pitch could have been that they could live on the planet and Molly could go to school with other kids, Keiko could get a job at a university and Miles could commute to the station every day.
I came here to day this ❤
@@benjaminmorgan6386 holy shit you’re right. I’d long thought she could’ve popped down any time for botany but Miles totally should’ve lived on-planet and commuted to the station! Had it not moved. Dang
@@benjaminmorgan6386 she still could though! The station moved to a position 160 million kilometers from Bajor, an astronomical unit is 150 million kilometers, that's 8 minutes at warp 1, even if Bajor is say 2 au from its star, is on the far side of the star from the station the total straight line distance is just about 5 au, meaning a morning commute at warp one is still just 40 minutes. Warp 2 cuts that down to 5 minutes!
@@DrewLSsix don't they hesitate to use warp drives when traveling inside solar systems because it could be dangerous? I could be misremembering but I feel like that was a plot point in ds9 at one point
Keiko is the reason Nog got into Starfleet. Her best scene is where she persuades Rom to send Nog to school. With both the Ferenghi and the Bajoran parents her attitude was never "I'm from the Federation I know better". She's very respectful of both their cultures. She explains to Rom how an education could help Nog in business. She never said to the Bajorans their beliefs were bad or wrong, but that teaching religion was a role for the Vedeks not the science class.
Have not watched yet but the title has got me excited because literally everyone talks about how terrible, annoying and nagging she is. Despite the fact that she WELCOMED Nerys without a hint of jealousy or resentment (and was so supportive through the pregnancy), conspired to get Julian and Obrien back into the holosuites because she saw they missed eachother, stayed by Obrien through literally every horror that ever happened to him, and would have continued to sacrifice her career and self fufillment to be on a cardassian monstrosity had Obrien himself not insisted.
The arguments are always so lame like "She says Miles too much" Its her husbands name? Why dont you blame the writers for giving him a weird name?
"Theres other characters like Kira and Dax that make her look weak" Not everyone has to be the hulk. Thinking that a tough persona and fighting skills is the only thing that makes a strong woman is so wrong. Keiko is strong in her own ways, and very smart. She saved her husband from dying by demanding they see if the recording was faked. She fought for the people she cared about, just without her fists.
A guy even told me she was a hysterical helpless damsel and when I asked for evidence he cited the episode where Molly was lost 300 years in the past. Like, not everyone reacts to situations like a hardened starfleet officer. She is a civillian, thats the whole point. Of course she cried. And then she did make the insanely hard right decision to send Molly back in time. I would love to see these internet tough guys face something like that.
Keiko and Barclay are the characters we need so goofy trekkies stop envisioning themselves as indestructible starfleet officers. They are the most realistic people on the show. And these guys who say shes a bad wife are almost always the types who think a womans job is to say "yes sir" while her husband does whatever he wants. If yall were getting any, youd realize normal wives have opinions. And nagging is rarely the fault on the nagger, its because the other person needs to be reminded about basic things like responsibility.
my uncle brought up the “nagging wife” perspective to me and i was so confused. i loved keiko on ds9 and thought she was such a strong character.
Perfectly said!
"Bad Wife"? She literally tried to reinvent her career so that she had something to do on DS9 besides raising the baby. And all because she followed her husband to DS9 and gave up a job she liked. Keiko was extremely patient with all she went through in the transfer to DS9. I hardly paid attention to her on TNG, but on DS9 I never saw her as a nagging wife. Every time she was frustrated or annoyed, it was pretty much justified.
I would also like to add I thought she was so strong in “Cardassians” with how she treated Rugal and managed her husband. “It was an ugly thing that you said, I don’t need to hear it twice.” is still a sadly relevant line that should be used in more TV!
Isn't Keiko the only recurring scientist in the show? There are engineers and managers and warriors, and there are plenty of scientists that come in for a single episode, but she's the only one we see more than once. I don't count "science officers" because they aren't really shown doing science.
I always felt pretty bad for Keiko. She basically lost her career, with no prospect for resuming it, when she transferred to DS9. Plus, she's married to the person with the absolute WORST luck in Starfleet. AND she had Worf as a midwife.
True. Sadly, Mr. O'Brien seems to lack the luck of the Irish.
✌️&❤️
When you consider that the future human society in Star Trek is supposedly all about self-improvement and achieving one's full potential, Keiko sacrificing her career as a botanist to support her husband, start a school on DS9 and everything else she does to support every other character around her is potentially a *BIG* sacrifice.
@@kevinkarnes4067 I mean if you know any history at all O'Brien had exactly the same luck that the Irish have ever had.
@@kevinkarnes4067 ....a cursory glance at Irish history might indicate that very few people in Ireland have had the luck of the Irish.
@@kevinkarnes4067 I dunno, most of the things that happen to Miles are really, really unlikely. Maybe his Irish luck is working and it's just on the wrong setting or something.
Wish you'd mentioned that even when she's the "ball and chain" it's kind of more in O'Brien's head than anything. I mean, there's a whole episode where he goes home, drives her crazy, and she has to manipulate Bashir and O'Brien into hanging out because they're assuming that her being back means they can't hang out, when really they still can and she has nothing against him having friends and a life, actually.
It would've been so easy to make Keiko a fan favourite, by just having her join in with O'Brian and Bashir on the holodeck. Also could've led to a great running joke about Worf being the babysitter.
Wow. That’s so straightforward and simple. I like it
Hell yeah that would have been amazing. Keiko all dressed up laughing with them about their nonsense.
There is untapped potential for Worf and Keiko to have become buddies. Mutual respect between a Klingon warrior with caring side and a human botanist fierce in her principles.
Worf seeks out parenting advice* from Keiko and Keiko seeks Worf as a sounding board when other Starfleet personnel suggest passive responses to infuriating situations.
*how much fun would it have been to see more Alexander, seen as, mistakenly, the "cool older kid" by Jake and Nog?
I wanna see Worf in a children's tea party. In character.
@@singularrookhart7501 Now I am almost angry. We could have had a Rat Pack with Alexander, Jake, and Nog! Imagine how much *funnier* In The Cards could have been with Alexander in the mix.
Chao is also really good at playing Keiko in different ways. The possessed Keiko is actually genuinely terrifying in a not over the top way, and in Whispers she plays the subtle "offness" really well.
I was a Keiko fan right from the start. Wished she got more episodes. I loved the stuff we did get of her earlier on DS9 and was disappointed she didn't get more like that.
My dad is half-Irish and my mom is Japanese, I really connected to the O'Brien family story because it was cool to think that a family so similar to mine could exist in the future. I was sorta gutted when I saw how much hate Keiko got from fans :(
Another great thing about her is that she's never given the jealousy cliche plotlines. Like when Miles goes out of his way to not play darts with Julian and spend time with her, and clearly wanting to play with Julian, she goes out of her way to get them to spend time together.
Also, she really pushed for Miles and Kira to get along when Kira was pregnant with their kid, not expecting any romantic tension to rise between them, no cliche jealousy plotlines were brought up.
I remember watching that episode recently and thinking…is Keiko angling for a threesome here?
I was late to watch DS9 and frankly was a bit surprised they wrote for Keiko as well as. She was written. I never saw her as nagging but simply a wife stating her opinions and both her and Miles are a bit quick to anger. A few times when she states her wants or needs and Miles gets mad and responds I just cringe and think “Miles! Think first and take a breath.” Because then a fight starts and of course Keiko gets the blame.
@@laurakb196it sucks because unfortunately a lot of strong female characters in shows are seen as “nagging” annoying people just for being louder and more assertive about their wants and who they are. I watched Star Trek for the first time with my husband, all of them except TNG and TOS, and I also never saw a problem with her character. But im not surprised anymore by the hatred so many male dominated fan bases have for women characters. It’s unfortunate
I'm surprised you didn't bring up season 2's Cardassians, where Keiko calls out Miles for his overt racism against the Cardassian orphan.
That scene always stood out to me.
Especially her rebuttal of "I don't need to hear it twice.", to show that comments like his don't deserve justification.
She was a strong and opinionated character that I wish has been used more.
*"That was an UGLY thing you just said right now... I don't need to hear it twice!"*
I'm not a hug fan of Luaxanna Troy, but I do really like her on DS9. I think her interactions with Odo show some of her more positive qualities. You see this a bit with her interactions with Alexander on the Enterprise too. Its the time when you can see that she really can use her empathy to connect with people instead of using it to put them at a disadvantage/keep them at a distance.
I kinda wish she could have stayed married to Odo for a little longer. After all Kira had 2 long term relationships even though the story arc was always for her and Odo to get together, so this one could have played out, ended amicably, given Odo someone to interact with besides Kira and Quark, and not automatically written Lwaxana off as unloveable.
She was a very different character in that episode then on TNG.
Oh, I hate her! As a person; she would be a nightmare to be related to or having as a guest; though while she seems like a terrible mother, she's not too bad as a crazy pseudo aunt. And she's certainly always entertaining to watch on screen.
DS9 just made characters from TNG much better: O'Brien, Worf, Keiko, Lwaxana Troi
The strongest argument for Keiko O'Brien is "Time's Orphan." No one is a Keiko-hater after seeing that episode and hearing "Molly Home"
Now I want a "Star Trek: O'Brien" where people expect it's 10 episodes about Miles, but it will be all Keiko :D
Which is probably for the best, thinking about how O'Brien episodes worked out for him.
Yeeeeesss.
I've been saying it since before Season 1 of Picard came out, and I will keep saying it; Molly O'Brien, Chief Engineer of the ENterprise-F. Make it canon, Kurtzman. I mean, I know Kirayoshi is in that role in STO, but in STO Data is (or was) alive (having inadvertently taken over B-4's body, and we see him briefly visiting Sela in a Federation prison in a cut scene) and was captain of the Enterprise-E for like 20 years.
Or a family sitcom in Bajor with the O´briens walking into wacky situations like their daughter dating a cardasian or something
Actually always liked Keiko, and I remember even as a kid cringing whenever O'Brien acting like she was pulling him down. Possibly it's because I had a deadbeat dad myself, but I always empathized with her.
Not that O'Brien was a deadbeat dad.
@@quentra4304
Nope.
But he wasn't an easy person to be married to.
You really can't blame Keiko for seeming like the controlling nagging figure in O'Brien's life, when you consider how many "O'Brien must suffer" episodes there are. It's amazing she ever lets him out of their living quarters.
Great point
Well, the only reason she lets him out of their quarters is to be besties with Julian!
Aside from the initial wedding nonsense, I've always seen Keiko as pretty sympathetic and reasonable. She's was dealt a pretty shit hand in DS9. Even the "nagging wife" stuff is actually pretty reasonable behavior if you put yourself in her shoes. It just sticks out because everyone else is always talking about high stakes space shit all the time. It IS possible to sympathize with both Miles and Keiko when they have friction between them. Not my favorite character by any stretch, but I don't understand the hate. Keiko earned my eternal respect for being the first one to stand up to Space Karen and for secular education.
Something I think people tend to forget that Keiko is also a civilian. Remember one of the big points about the Ent-D was that it had families, civilians, on it. Keiko was but one of em. She was NOT Starfleet, more like...a contracted (or whatever the post-money, 24th century version of that is) botanist for Starfleet. She did her job, lived her life. But she wasn't Starfleet. She wasn't even enlisted, unlike O'Brian. Point being, that Keiko cannot be held to the higher standards of Starfleet. It'd be a whole other ballgame if she was in Starfleet.
I actually like Keiko despite the less than desirable writing of her. Shes a smart person, a loving wife and mother, and someone who would have been a worthy member of the main cast had she been given the opportunity.
I thought The Assignment enabled some of Rosalind Chao’s best acting - but you’d probably argue “Why not write Keiko as a dimensional character to unleash that?” The Pah-wraith imprisoned her body but unleashed her humanity. I wanted a subplot where the Pah-wraith wasn’t actually killed and came back periodically like herpes.
Interesting. I never thought of Keiko as all that bad. She just has a very specific role to play- grounding O'Brien- and a really unfortunate location to live- next to O'Brien. Damn, Miles and family really are a lightning rod for suffering.
For some folk, 'this lady is annoyed with a man and making him have less fun in some way' is all they need to dislike a character. Look at the insane level of hatred for Skyler White that used to go around.
I completely agree with you that Keiko got a bad deal on TNG and DS9.
And I know you don't agree and I'm in the minority, but Lwaxana Troi is also not that bad. She is more than how she appears and ends up as a really interesting character study on how trauma affects someone and how they overcompensate to hide it.
I don't know if your opinion about Lwaxana is the minority one, or not. I liked the character decently enough.
One of my favorite appearances of hers is in the novel, "Q-in-Law". If you haven't read it, I recommend you find it and give it a shot.
Agree! I think Lwaxana is all right - as a character to *watch* at least. I enjoy her. I don't think I'd like her very much to hang out with, she's kind of overbearing and demanding and loud.
I actually like Lwaxana better on DS9 because there she got her own screen time and isn't just relegated to the role of overbearing mom.
Her friendship/romance with Odo is seriously underrated imo and I like her and Ido more the him and Kira.
@@mkang8782 I generally don't like Lwaxana. But there is one scene with her in DS9 I think is legitimately great. When she and Odo are trapped in an elevator or something together. Odo is putting off reverting into his gelatenous form out of shame or something like that. And she, to helm him feel better, takes off her wig.
I find her annoying in general, but I really like that one moment where she sets aside her own vanity to make someone else feel better.
Lwaxana showed us in that episode where her and Odo got stuck in the elevator that her obnoxious persona was largely an act, to convince the world that she was a strong, independent woman not to be messed with since Lwaxana was a single mother, a noble, and an ambassador for the Betazed. When she showed lowered her defenses with Odo, and showed us her true warmth and kindness that we didn't really see prior, it made me rethink her as a character.
In TNG's "Power Play" O'Brien is possessed by an alien being that terrorizes Keiko. In DS9's "The Assignment" Keiko is possessed by an alien being that terrorizes O'Brien. I'm not sure if the Trek writers of that era had some weird, dark alien possession fetish thing going on when writing these two characters but it's worth noting.
I was surprised Steve didn't bring that up
@@thetruerift
At least this sort of thing is better than a Mirrorverse episode.
Anything's better than a Mirrorverse episode.
While not a particularly distinctive character, I never knew that anyone had a problem with Keiko. In fact I find it hard to imagine having any sort of strong reaction to her in either direction.
I'm excited to watch this and find out what it's all about
I remember really liking her in
In the Hands of The Prophets,
but for the most part she was just there.
The writers never found many interesting stories to tell about her, which is sad.
The double-act between Keiko and Worf really made me laugh. I wish there had been a few more of those moments!
"Right ... sorry ... Winn Karen."
You never disappoint, Steve.
My late Mum (UK spelling) actually really liked Keiko, precisely because the Keiko/Miles marriage was not a perfect TV relationship. She liked the way the relationship was portrayed because in the real world couples get grumpy with each other. Marriages and raising children can be hard work. While there were moments of tension in the relationship there were also the touching moments between them. For example, Miles wearing Keiko’s handkerchief while playing Racquetball in “Rivals”, or Keiko wearing the Red dress in ‘Fascination’. She felt these moments showed that they truly loved each other. She said the marriage they had with ALL its ups AND downs felt very true to life.
Keiko doesn't fit in on DS9 and I thought that was the whole point of her character. That Miles is happiest in a place where he is needed and Keiko is as well. The Enterprise D didn't need Miles, but it did need Keiko. Opposite on DS9. What they need is a place where someone needs to study the plants but the whole place is coming apart as well.
Exactly. The dream assignment would be a seed ship or something. Lol.
I'd argue that with the wormhole being discovered and Starfleet conducting its first expeditions into the Gamma Quadrant, DS9 could have been a perfect place for Keiko. She could have been helping the Federation study Gamma Quadrant flora, but instead they kept sending her to Bajor.
@@nicholassmith7984 Exactly. It would easy to fit her in. Make her a civil botanic expert in missions of starfleet or get her into bajorian missions. But I would have written her out for a session - why? I have killed her by the JemHadar in the Delta Quardrant when the killed all bajorians colonies there just find her on that camp where Garak, Bashir and Worf were imprisioned. I would changed her taken on bajorian faith while being inprisioned with bajorians from that colony and becoming best friend with Kira Nerys.
@@givemeanaxe Terraforming missions.
I think the hatred for Keiko mainly comes down to 2 things: 1) good old-fashioned misogyny and 2) her episodes largely being about the inherent difficulties that come with a long-term committed relationship.
"The ship collides with a quantum filllament, which is a thing the writers made up so the ship could collide into it"
🤣🤣🤣
"Jim never has a second cup of coffee at home"
One of Rosalind Chao's best acting opportunities came in the episode "The Assignment" where Keiko was taken over by a Pah-Wraith and had O'Brien running all over the station making modifications without alerting the station crew. She was cold and calculating, yet charming and seductive. She kind of sounded like how I would've imagined a Mirror Universe version of her. Chao played it to the hilt and made it one of my favorite O'Brien episodes. 🖖😎👍
I always saw the "ball-and-chain" references to reflect more on Miles's sexism than on Keiko's actual character. He was the one who would make a big deal about it. If you take his word as fact, then it reflects poorly on her. But if you take it more as him venting about his own discomfort with his role as a husband, it reflects poorly on him.
IDK, Major Kira never had to deliver a baby by a Klingon with no anesthetic. Keiko’s pretty tough. Plus even though the character was portrayed by a child actor, she helped teen Picard save the Enterprise from interloping Ferengi in TNG’s “Rascals.” Also, I personally find O’Brien to be an insufferable everyman stand-in so the fact that she can be a pain in his ass makes her character appealing to me.
We named our daughter Kira because we were watching DS9 when she was just a wee-fetus. And now I’m realizing I forgot Keiko entirely when we thought of Star Trek girl names. But on more than one occasion something that she went through in the show would bring me to tears. Usually child related but still. I definitely appreciated her character more than I realized.
Keiko was one of the few characters, be it primary or secondary, that DS9 handled somewhat poorly. I would even argue that Jake wasn’t handled nearly as well as he could’ve been, despite being one of the shows “leads” (Cirroc Lofton appears in the shows opening credits after all).
On a show that thrived on long form storytelling, it made sense to include as many secondary characters as possible to flesh out the narrative. And DS9 arguably did this better than any other Star Trek show in the franchise. However, as shown by this video, the character of Keiko was done a major disservice and it shows. In many cases, she was reduced to a side plot point or, even worse, a soft foil for our protagonists Miles and Julian.
Jumping shows, I’d argue that Voyager (steady, Steve) had a similar problem with one of its major characters: Neelix. The few episodes where Ethan Phillips got to play with the character, he did an excellent job. But since Voyagers writers needed a bumbling comedic character, sadly Neelix was, in my opinion, criminally underwritten.
When she was leading a botany survey on Bajor, they should have found a way of giving her either a B-Plot for a portion of a series of episodes leading into something, or a focus episode, leading into one of the Bajor focused arcs. They should have done more with her, generally, though - Especially in DS9.
I never minded her, but I wish she got more to do in order to latch onto. More of a character rather than the almost cypher she often felt like to me. Heck, just more scenes with Keiko and Miles socializing. Hanging out. Being a loving couple. Why did Miles only get to do that with Bashir rather than his wife? Bashir got to do that with Garak as well as Miles.
I started watching Star Trek in middle school in TNG's 4th season, and got to see the premiere of DS9 new (my folks actually let me have the TV that night), and then more or less on the regular. I was so excited for the new series in part because the O'Briens were moving, and Keiko was one of my favorite recurring characters. I had a bit of a strained relationship with my parents for various reasons (puberty, undiagnosed anxiety, etc), and so I looked at parents on TV - and in Trek particularly - that I looked up to for examples. DS9 gave me two amazing examples of parents in Ben Sisko and Keiko O'Brien. I wished so badly that my mom was more like Keiko, because Keiko displayed such compassion and empathy, while at the same time standing up for what she believed in. I also wanted to become a teacher when I grew up, and she was an amazing example for me of a fictional teacher who again, showed kindness and compassion while holding firm to her beliefs and protecting her students' right to an education without undue influence. I am now indeed a teacher, and she, along with amazing teachers in real life, shaped my philosophy of education. I suppose I was too young at the time to be aware of the polarizing opinions (though that was when I was at my most active in the fandom - I volunteered at so many conventions in middle school and early high school because you couldn't go more than two months between conventions where I lived at the time), but I've never heard the negative criticisms of her character. It's interesting to learn, but I am definitely Team Keiko. I always wanted to see more of her on screen.
I often felt like when Star Trek wanted to write strong women characters, they kenned on strong men stereotypes. For instance, in older cinema, strong men don't accept help and keep their emotions inside. They do this with Keiko a lot. It is less likely for women to do this, the way we are currently socialized. Keiko often rebuffs Miles when he tries to help her, and insists that she's fine while clearly being irritated, so he has to go fix the problem in secret without her input. I think she would've loved the arboretum idea, but she didn't get a say, because she was stuck taking care of things herself ands not letting her husband in.
That whole episode would have been more interesting if the spotlight had been on her efforts to fix her issue, with her husband supporting and assisting and even offering advice, rather than watching Miles "not-quite-a-himbo" O'Brian try to tackle it with Julian "none-off-his-braincells-understand-women" Bashir.
Dawn.
Interesting.
I wonder if they were writing Keiko as resentful of Miles, or whether they simply hadn't figured the character out.
Tbf Julian gave good advice in that episode- he has some horrible misses with women but telling Miles that what Keiko really wants is her career back is in fact, correct. I think he's better at giving other people advice than putting it in practice in his own life.
I forgot about Sisko making a clock while DS9 tears itself apart. It’s never directly brought up but I think Sisko has an aptitude for graphic design. He builds a clock, carves an ancient starship, designs a house and you know he had that Niners cap design in his back pocket years before Take Me Out To The Holosuite.
I read somewhere that the actor Roseline Chao didn't want to work to much on the show because of other things she had going on in her life and the showrunners took this into consideration when coming up with episodes featuring her character.
And I didn't think Keiko was bad in the first place.
THANKS FOR giving Keiko her props. I am currently doing a rewatch of DS9 for my humble little channel and one of the things that strike me is how Keiko's character makes absolute sense. People hate on her for being down, but who wouldn't be down? Shit, Sisco didn't even want the job!!! The way she stands up to Winn and tells O'Brien to stop being racist towards Cardassians is on point, too.
I also wish she had been given more to do, but I have enjoyed her bits on screen so far. I am on season 3 and will try to join you guys on Wed. Much peace. LLAP.
Keiko wasn't a bad character but an underwritten one.
For as good as DS9 wrote most of it's recurring (Rom, Garak...) Keiko has been reduced to "the mom" and "the wife".
With her expedition on Bajor that could've easily been an episode or two with her maybe paired up with Kira getting in the middle of a resistance/provisional government clash
Having re-watched all of DS9 recently... Keiko has a single episode where she deserves the reputation she's been given, and it's the one where she's possessed by the Pa wraith. Otherwise... Keiko is fantastic and basically always in the right.
My favorite Keiko memory is the episode of DS9 ( and I forget the name pardon this old Trekkie ) where she is taken over by a Pa Wraith and forces Miles to help her destroy the worm hole. I loved it because Rosiland did a fantastic job of playing evil. It was so fun to watch.
Keiko's expression during the birth was priceless, she looked like she could fight Kahless himself. ^__^
I did see Keiko in DS9 somewhat at times as a nag. That's not a knock on the actress that plays her but a compliment because I think that's what the writers wrote in the scripts, and the director held her to the scripts. And she consistently nailed it every time. Also, thats not a knock on the writers either. No other tv series series ever left me nervous and with sweaty palms after viewing. Their stories, brushes with death and things they encountered and endured would tax anyone's mental state. Amazing. One of the things I would hold most favorable about Keiko is when she asked Captain Sisko if she could open a school to teach the children on DS9 because there was no school. On the very first day of the school opening as Misses O'Brien starts her introduction to all the children cpt. Sisko pauses at the door of the class, leaving his son Jake Sisko under the supervision of Keiko smiles seemingly at the critical need that was met at DS9 and sensing genuine community being formed. Children education being an important element in any thriving community. He then goes his way to attend Station matters. Nag maybe or maybe not. But when things hit the fan she was a team player that did not shy away from difficult situations. Those are the type of people you want. If there was one imaginary place I would ever want to visit it would be Deep Spane 9 and its' community. The community they created under that leadership and staff.
I find one of the most baffling things about the writing of Keiko on DS9 to be that, for a station close to a wormhole to a completely unexplored part of the galaxy, with ships constantly bringing back samples from the gamma quadrant, Starfleet found no use for a top-class botanist on the station? (One skilled enough to serve on the flagship, no less!)
What, dedicating a corner of the giant station to an arboretum was too expensive? Is Sisko allergic to flowers or something?
It's definitely not the case that no scientific research takes place on the station either, as Bashir even points out on several occasions that working on a space station as opposed to a starship gives him ample time to pursue in-depth medical research that he wouldn't have been able to on a starship. Surely, the same must be true when it comes to botany and the study of completely new forms of plant life?
Obviously, this is a case of the writers not needing a botanist and wanted to use Keiko as "Miles' wife" rather than a scientist, and when they needed a school for the plot, they chucked her in there too as they didn't seem to know what else to do with her. (A school that quickly faded from relevance after the first season.)
It's a shame, as I'd have liked to see more of the scientist Keiko.
Rosalind Chao also does an amazing job as pah-wraith-possessed Keiko.
I loved Worfs comment when he found out Keko was pregnant with Yoshi, "I will be away, on Earth, visiting my parents." More of that comedic interaction you mention.
I know you will never do a defence of Lwaxana Troi video, but I ended up loving her because of DS9.
Her genuine acceptance of Odo and her uncommon openness to him, both bringing out the best in each other made me like them as a couple infinitely more than Odo/Kira.
Also I think her frankness with talking about aging as a woman, having insecurities but still wanting to do new things and well, have sex, gives us a kind of female character we don't see enough on TV.
Though I will admit, much like the Ferengi, liking her on DS9 doesn't mean I don't dread revisiting her earlier TNG appearances.
I never had problems with her character because for me giving up your life and career for your husband's choices seems like a very good reason to be cranky. But my problem was that I don't buy their relationship. They have no chemistry and TNG/DS9 fail to show any common ground between them. What were they actually talking about apart from daily things and arguments? To be honest DS9 shows this perfectly, maybe unwillingly. There were no fun activities on the holodeck and I don't think that they ever attended the bar and just had a drink together. A really bold move in the last season would have been the realization that a divorce is the best consequence. Keiko could have transfered to a comfy science vessel with child care and Miles could then really be the bachelor engineer that he impersonated through the whole show.
i think part of that problem is the fact that there are basically no married men in star trek and it may have been difficult for the writers to figure out how to even fit a relationship into the situation. (they did great with kassidy but she wasn’t there very often)
Most married couples don't.
To be fair Star Trek was always pretty bad at relationships. I found them more believable than Worf and Dax.
Totally agree about the lack of chemistry.
100% agreed on the no chemistry thing in fact I just posted something similar.
Given how we've talked about how Keiko deserves better and isn't the nagging wife everyone makes her out to be, I'm very surprised you've never made this video before! Very happy to see Keiko love finally.
Wait, Brie? As in TrekCulture Brie...?
Great to see you here on another quality Trek channel. You still making content for TrekCulture?
The segment of the video where you "watch" Move Along Home was priceless. Absolute geek gold. I love Bashir's little fear/vogue pose in that episode too.
Really looking forward to your next videos on Star Trek's origins. Great idea!
Can I just say, the way you describe episodes is absolutely delightful? You so often find the best in each episode and scene. Thank you.
I love Keiko. I've never seen her as a ball & chain for Miles; rather, she occasionally reminds him of non-Starfleet responsibilities, but most of the time she's happy with him spending time with Julian. Her career is hobbled by Miles' but she doesn't complain. She becomes a teacher, she continues to go on expeditions (taking the toddler, mind you, so as not to "saddle" Miles with the kid). She's witty, she's affectionate, she's whip-smart. I have to admit having a little crush on Keiko, to be honest.
The comedic stylings of Keiko and Worf are even better with "badum-tss" added throughout their scenes in "Disaster". Especially with the "epilogue" scene from DS9 when he finds out she's pregnant again.
I've got to admit, during its initial airing, I didn't think much of DS9's first season. Subsequently, despite the fact there are issues with it, I have come to think that rather than it taking time to 'warm up', me going from the much more settled and comfortable TNG, it was me that needed time to 'warm up' to it. It can take time to get comfortable with something different. I also think the episodes are stronger in retrospect since they fit so well into the context of the show as a whole rather than TNG S1 which feels like a complete anomaly in its own context.
Looking forward to the upcoming episode, why Lwaxana Troi was actually not that bad…. Her DS9 appearances and her relationship with Odo really added some depth
I mostly encountered Keiko through DS9, but I never thought of her as a particularly annoying or awful character. If there is anything that's bad about her, it's that her stubbornness is as much a flaw as it is a positive character trait. Keiko's insistence isn't bad in most circumstances, but sometimes it might not be the best thing for a particular situation. But she's very quick on setting O'Brien straight on things he's definitely wrong for doing or saying, and mostly understanding and forgiving when she wants to be. I imagine they have this weird type of relationship where they're both pretty stubborn, but they make it work somehow. It may not be a particularly healthy relationship, but neither of them are as demanding as Worf is with Jadzia early on. Though it's kinda funny that both her and O'Brien get possessed by an evil cosmic entity at least once throughout TNG and DS9.
Love your editing. And your insightful opinions on the subjects you choose to post about. Keep up the great work bro.
I love Keiko. Wish we'd seen more of her.
"Miles never has a second cup of MY coffee..."
Dammit, Steve 🤣🤣🤣
Your breaking the fourth wall commentary is often better than the actual script, which is even more impressive when the scripts themselves are already excellent.
Disaster is one of my favorite TNG episodes. Looking forward to it on Ensign's Log.
There were a few characters that were more or less thrown in as window dressing most of the time until they got an episode about them, and there were a few characters like Troi where it's pretty glaring the writers (most of the time) didn't know what to do with them.
Keiko got both. And what's worse, because her most common thing was bossing around/complaining about Miles, and her most memorable episode was when she was literally under the control of an evil alien, there's people who come away from it thinking SHE is evil and insufferable. When what we glimpse of episodes where she actually gets used, and/or is written well, she's not.
It's almost criminal.
I genuinely love it when you 'recap' the dialogue.
I had such a crush on Keiko when I was young. I thought it was just because Rosalind Chao is, you know, Rosalind Chao, but this video made me realize it was because she stood up to space Karen.
She was amazing in Tribunal & Hard Time, & I loved the episode where Miles thought he was obligated to stay home with Keiko, but Keiko preferred him to be off with Bashir, and tricked them both into catching up 😉.
I really feel like the whole "Keiko is a shrew" thing is mostly just a meme supporting the other "Miles O'Brien must suffer" meme. And really during the DS9 years I do feel like she really has some great reasons to be a little pissy, having gone from doing pretty chill research on the Federation's flagship to moving to an occasionally active war zone in the ass end of space
Keiko represented my mom and all the other service spouses I knew growing up for me. She was badly written, which is really disappointing. She and O'Brien's children served as a unique representation that gets overlooked and most times gets labeled uninteresting or needless in military films or its Starfleet equivalent (mostly Coast Guard). It's why I gravitate to the protagonist and his family in Godzilla 2014. I was that four year old little boy. Except for the Giant Nuclear Lizard atticking the city, of course.
"You may now give birth" is one of the funniest lines ever in Star Trek XD
It's so strange to me that so many people didn't like Keiko for (among other things) being the O'Brien's killjoy and "ball-and-chain". She was part of why I love O'Brien's character so much. It's so good to see a main-ish character portrayed as a family man who genuinely loves his partner and family. Sure there are ups and downs, because, like, they're people, and they're living life, but there's no question about his love and commitment, and it's portrayed as a strength of his character, not a weakness. It's one of the highlights of my recollections of DS9.
We had a pair of siamese cats we named Miles and Keiko. Our Keiko was beloved despite being a bit irascible, though underneath she had a heart of gold (at least to me). Anyway, I could never find it in myself to hate the DS9 character, if only because she shares the name of our kitty.
(We still have Miles, but alas we lost Keiko early in the pandemic.)
Thank you for making this video & live long and prosper 🖖
I literally had a parent write to my superintendent today because one sentence in my lesson mentioned lgbtqia+ rights were part of social rights. Called me sex crazed and inappropriately with seventh graders
The real kicker is that I didn't write the lesson. It was part of the school curriculum given to me by the district. It was a list of different things people use art activism to support or protest
Keiko is such a great character who deserved so much more. Like, she had so much heart.
Notice kids didn't have a social learning environment? Decided to go and fix that.
Notice her husband's racism? Calls it out.
Torn between being a mother and a professional? Finds a way to do both.
She's awesome and I love her
Good topic and I think I agree with you! Your characterization of Keiko's bad reputation makes me wonder if people are confusing her with Yoko Ono.
I really liked Wesley’s character on what everybody’s like riding on the poor kid
I like the episode where Miles and Julian are both a bit depressed but won’t talk to each other and Keiko basically plays matchmaker to get them to talk to each other.
“This is my husband Miles and this is my husband’s boyfriend Julian”
An Airplane! Reference in a Star Trek video?!
Well done sir! Well done!
I love your videos. The Airplane coffee reference made me laugh hard! I was thinking about that scene too 😂 Also Karen Winn.. I mean Winn Karen! You should do star trek stand up man you're hilarious!
Kekio had my favored moment of heroism in all of Deep Space Nine Novals in fallen heroes. She talked to an unknown race of aliens that was killing everyone on the station while Jake Nog were motioning to Molly from a heating duct to get her to safty
I enjoyed Kaiko as a character in both shows. One of the particular details that especially draws me to her is that Molly was born at about the same time as my oldest son, and the two grew up through the original broadcasts of the Next Generation and DS9 being the same age. So, now Molly would be about 33 years old and I wonder what she's been up to in the years since her time growing up on DS9.
Excellent episode, sir.
Keiko got early crazy vibes from me when she tried to call off the O'Brien wedding in Data's Day, but then got badass Mom cred when she was basically ready to die to save the ship in Power Play. She just got better after that.
Excellent analysis!
You have to love how, no matter how badly the ship is damaged, the gravity always works.
"The ship collides with a Quantum Filament, which is a thing the writers made up so the ship could collide with it..." I paused the video because I was laughing too hard. Grabbed the share link and sent the link and quote to my business partner so she could laugh too.
To be honest, I didn't really get why Keiko would not continue with her original profession once the wormhole opens... A whole new galactic sector to explore.
We should each be lucky to have a Keiko in our lives- the only reason I see for her to be called 'ball and chain' is as projection for 'failed' partnerships. If you're in a working, improving relationship, then your partner shouldn't be considered your 'ball and chain'.
I think I listened to another TH-camr say that while they can't do certain things without their partners input, they explicitly said they wouldn't have it any other way; they regard their partner that highly.
Personally, Keiko and Miles' relationship is part of my template for my relationship goals.
Have you ever noticed how it seems to be very hard for TV to have main characters who are married but not dysfunctional in some major way? There are also a surprising number of single parents in tvland.
I never thought Keiko was that bad. She acted like a real spouse. She wasn't always happy, but that is real life. She gave up on things for her family.
She is normal and is part of why Star Trek has a stronger human connection than other science fiction offerings (Babylon 5 is a distant second).
Good video, Steve.
I totally agree with you about DS9 First season. I think why that worked so much is because they weren’t exactly starting from scratch like they did with the original series and the next generation.
Nice one ... Keiko was like Ginger Rogers, but instead of Fred Astaire and backwards, she did Miles and pain. She had to live with all the pain they dished out to Miles week after week, deal with her own shit, AND a good chunk of the time, be the actual conduit or recipient of the "Shit we're gonna make Miles go through this week." She basically took all the pain Miles did, plus her own, and had to do it as a side character.
She deserved better ...
I wasn’t unaware people didn’t like Keiko.