Todd Sucherman -- Traditional grip and Matched grip and the reason for both.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Traditional grip and matched grip. A perennial conversation among drummers and I’m asked why I switch between the two grips more than anything else. I find it a bit mystifying that there’s a large amount of interest and inquiries on the topic so I’ve tried to answer this the best I can and shed some light on why most traditional grip players find joy in both worlds.
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Holy crap, he did it. He actually answered the traditional vs matched conundrum. Wow 🤯 He unpacked it with nuance and honesty here, and it gave me things to consider that I hadn't before. Thank you!
Beautifully stated! You sir are a treasure to the drumming community!
Thanks, Rob!
Who better than Todd S. to clear up the misconceptions? Thanks Todd for all that you do. You're a huge inspiration!
If you ever have a chance to see Todd play live, be it a Styx show, clinic, or Master class.... GO! It'll be the best money and time you've ever spent. He truly is the master!
Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to address this particular topic and agree with many of the other comments as well. Now, I'm going to experiment with "the other way" and check out the other possibilities as you mentioned. Very cool post, Sir!
I don't think anyone speaks as eloquently or properly simplistic about drumming as Todd. When a topic needs to be thoroughly addressed, he's on it. When a topic can be simply answered, done.
I just wanted you to know that you've been one of my all time favorite drummers--EVER!!! Some of the emotional things that you said regarding music still stick with me to this day! Thank you Sir 🥁
Absolutely love this Todd I’ve been playing since I was 12 years old I’m 48 now and I’m just now learning traditional grip and I got to say I love it thanks for the input
I think you explained it spot on. 😃👍
Superb answer, tnx for quick response. 🎶✌️
Pls keep doing this little videos, there’s a lot of drummer like me that need this information!
Thank you Todd.Your the best❤️
Best explanation I've heard to date
Man, I love youtube. Awesome drummers are just all over the place. It's really cool you have an active channel.
Todd... Just love everything you do. Really appreciate such great content and communication and thanks for being an amazing role model to this community!
Thank you!
Thanks for the information Todd!
SIMPLY A LIVING TREASURE...WE HAVE ALL BEEN SADDENED RECENTLY BY GREAT MUSICIAN LOSSES, EDDIE VAN HALEN, NEIL PEART ETC. GO SEE THIS GUY IF YOU GET A CHANCE!
Traditional was how my father taught me as well , which Phil Stanger continued at Frank’s drum shop after my dad passed away. Buddy Rich wasn’t a fan of matched (there is a video of him covering it) but some can make it work. The sad part is few these days truly “drum” and understand economy of movement and stick control so they can find themselves exhausted at the end of a set. Hopefully you will inspire them to study and learn. Please keep posting.
Thank you for the great video. Very informative.
I am self taught, started playing in 1980, back then in my area, there was no cable TV, no MTV, so all I saw were pictures of drummers. I'm not ashamed to say at that time in my live rock/hard rock and prog were my biggest influences and for the mort part those were the only drummers I examined, and most of them played matched grip. So I emulated it. and for rock, that was fine.
As I got older and more mature, my musical journey expanded, because I started looking at the bands and drummers that influenced the drummers that influenced me. I gained a HUGE appreciation for jazz/swing and fusion. and many of THOSE drummers played traditional. I started experimenting and discovered that I had a greater sense of, and control of, dynamics on the snare with traditional grip.
Now I have started experimenting by playing instrumental :new age" styl music w/o any percussion, and composing drums/percussion to those songs "on the fly" and now for certain feels and control. I have gone to traditional grip in both hands. This has opened a whole new soundscape for me.
Todd, you hit the nail right on the head perfectly....Thank you for that brilliant explanation!!! I also feel validated in my choice between the two grips : )
Best... response....ever!
Such a great analogy/analysis. Thanks Todd
Such a great explanation… Respect to you, Sir!
Todd, I agree with you on grip switch!
I played traditional grip for many years. Then, I took 2 lessons from Gregg Bissonette and he explained why he plays Matched Grip most of the time. I have learned that being able to play both ways expands my musical ideas! Thanks!!
Excellent analogies, thank you for this great explanation!
Love the baseball pitching analogy...🥁⚾️
That was actually the worst one. There is a mechanically right way to throw a baseball and a wrong way. The only time the mechanics of a throw should truly change is out of positional necessity on a certain play/pitch, not because it’s the right or preferred way to throw. A player’s body position changes all the time snd so sometimes throwing mechanics have to accommodate that. But A drummer behind the kit is where s/he is. The body position is not changing. Neither then should the grip.
There was no technical benefit offered here really to playing traditional. But If it’s really just all about feel (like the better driving analogy), or how someone was taught, cool. Personally I’d like to see it just go away.
Nice simple answer. Thanks Todd!
Love this. I have always switched back and forth intuitively but never thought about it until now. Funny enough, now that I think about it, I battled myself internally about ‘which way is right?’ … and this helps quiet that internal voice, so thank you. Whatever suits the song, the moment or the feel. And be okay about it. I like that. Thank you. 🧡🐳
Class act. Always.
Totally agree with your points. I switch back and forth all the time now when I was primarily a matched grip player after high school. That changed after I marched snare in an all-age drum corps and then started my own corps in Atlanta. I found myself using traditional grip a lot while behind the kit. If I know I’m going to be playing a lot of fills, I tend to change to matched until I complete the passage.
I think this begs the question - why do marching bands and corps continue to promote/insist on traditional grip with perfectly level snare drums? Is it strictly because “that’s how it’s always traditionally been done?” What is the benefit?
@@davegarciaofficial - there was a brief flirtation with matched grip back in the late 70’s, with SCV using matched grip for a short while but the fad disappeared soon thereafter because most other corps didn’t adopt it. You do see it in a lot of high school programs but not as many as say 15-20 years ago as more high schools hire “percussion techs” with drum corps experience. A lot of that might have to do with the visual perspective and I for one enjoy it more so than matched with snare line. In my personal opinion, I think all young students should learn all grips and be able to use them interchangeably. If you want to see something interesting, watch videos of Daniel Glass, who plays with a reversed traditional grip with a left-handed setup.
As for using trad grip with level snares, you raise a good question. You rarely see a tilted snare drum behind a kit anymore, even with purely jazz players. I think people just find it works better in certain situations to switch back and forth. My last gig other than worship drumming was a tribute band and I found myself switching back and forth often. It just felt right after years of drum corps and pipe band drumming.
Your father sounds like a wise man.
Enjoyed the explanation.
Great analogy! When I have beginner students on a kit, if they have not been exposed to many drum videos they will play matched grip. They will play the hi hat with their left hand and the snare drum with their right hand on a right handed set up. It made me start playing more beats open handed. Hope to see you again at one of your clinics!
Love this guy he has such a great way of explaining things. I can and will learn things from him.
I learnt playing matched, but broke my left wrist playing squash, and couldn't play that way for years so had to make some changes, now Trad is home, but some stuff just feels better matched these days! I still find I have more nuance and control with trad, but there is something satisfying about switching to matched for hard hitting fills or back beats!
Perfectly stated
I play both as well. It just works.
That's exactly the way I feel about grip, plus traditional looks way more cool.
thank you for that Todd.
Makes sense! Well said TS!
Nice explanation. Thanks
Great explanation. I am 54 been playing since 10. Learned traditional and switched to match grip at around 15. Both are important and I use both interchangeably just which ever feels right. Definitely usually stick to traditional with jazz and older rock. When I go to play I first grab the sticks traditionally out of habit.
Nobody asked me, but…..I play predominantly matched as I play predominantly Rock and Roll, but as Todd said, when it feels right I go to traditional. The subtle touches are much more effective with it. 🥁🇺🇸🥁
I’ve been switching up my grip for rudiment practice on the pad and wanting to incorporate it into my play. I never played trad, but on some things, the trad grip just feels like a far better (meaning comfortable and efficient) choice.
I So enjoy your videos and I have learned much from your approach and ideas. In all respect, I might add, as a lifelong percussionist and educator, that traditional grip was developed and used to accommodate the angle of the drum for marching. Snare drummers in the traditional style of playing had an angle due to a strap that would never allow matched grip to work effectively. Because of the strap during marching, the angle of the drum created a need for a different type of grip. Traditional grip was a necessary development and the answer to the angle of a drum and have proper technique. Much later, modern harnesses allowed the drums to be level and allows matched grip to be utilized. However, most drum corps STILL demand traditional grip despite the "level" playing surface provided by shoulder harnesses for the snare drum.
I can't physically arch my left hand to handle traditional grip, so I have always been matched grip.
I have to agree. While I don't play anymore (my bad too be honest!) when I did all those years ago I would often switch too. It was all about the "feel" of the song at the time. Gospel & jazz to rock it's all different. I just felt more comfortable playing something with a bit of groove with a traditional grip yet playing rock it would almost always be the other way. To everyone, use what feels right for you!
Thank you, I have always switched grips but always felt guilty about it........i was originally taught trad and eventaul evolved to match and but it always depends on what I am playing , thanks
And just because of this explanation I'm gonna go down to my drum room and play some 40% traditional, and 60% matched grip, which is about the right ratio for me.
Thank you for your view on grips !! I started on Traditional Grip when I was 10 , then quickly went Match. I wish I kept both grips...
Also, snare height a little higher helps not only trad. grip, but Moeller and for me dynamics...
For me it accentuates the left right asymmetry within - this can cause me to think differently about what parts I might come up with. The left and right sides of the body are different and when you play into that sense of division, it’s like you’re a different person with different ideas and approaches. Not to mention also it stops you overplaying if you’re used to matched grip.
Hi Todd, interesting vid! I come at hand technique from almost the opposite angle. When I was growing up, my percussion teacher taught me matched grip and I wasn't even aware of traditional grip until a good while after I started playing. Today I use match grip probably about 85% of the time as I most of what I do involves rimshot backbeats which feel uncomfortable to me with traditional grip. But for most jazz, I prefer traditional grip as I feel like the imbalance of the hands helps steer me to playing with the right kind of feel. Something about playing jazz time with matched grip feels... ugly to me, unless it's something in more contemporary territory. I'd love to be able to switch between the 2 more but I find it difficult to play traditional grip on a flat drum as it causes me to lean over to the left, even when the drum is quite high, which I don't really like. And I also find it difficult to play matched on a drum that's set for traditional (leaning away from me). How do you angle your snare Todd?
Holy Crow! I was coming here for this subject and pow, there's the video! How do you build strength when going matched grip to traditional? When I reach for the crash the power isn't there? Edit: power with my left hand while traditional..
Furthering your driving analogy, I wonder if matched grip - outside of jazz and drumline, perhaps - is becoming a dying art much like driving a manual transmission. Although I mostly play matched grip, I immediately switch whenever I play rudimental snare stuff, or when I pick up brushes.
Regardless, thank you for not only being an excellent musician, but an excellent teacher!
I am messed up. I learned tradional grip in marching band then later played a kit - except I'm left handed and play a left hand set up. But that traditional grip only feels good in my left ( high hat ) hand. Sometimes I play traditional. Should I be trying to learn to hold traditional with my right hand?
I want to get into drums but have no skill in drums at all and wouldn't know where to start. Kind of upset I didn't take it up as a kid
I’m going to be the contrarian here. As always with these convos, all is said with total respect. :)
But I truly believe Switching to traditional is completely unnecessary and hinders full kit work/fills/ power especially across the toms on bigger kits. As mentioned in this video, Even some of the greats will change to matched grip when doing heavier work around the toms.
The only reason that traditional grip exists was to accommodate old tilted marching snares Eons ago. And that was brought over to the kit. And I understand many phenomenal drummers “learned that way back in the day.” Obviously they are incredible drummers!!
But is it truly the best way to learn? Is it really necessary? Are there any true technical benefits? I’d argue no. If I can play it with my right hand matched, I should be able to play it with my left hand matched. Where is the benefit to bring unsymmetrical? Having said that, I can see where it could spark some new creativity by challenging how we think about parts. I do see some possible benefit there I suppose.
as said in this video, if it feels good for whatever reason, and that’s how someone learned, have at it.
But It just seems like a hindrance that could no longer be taught, could probably go away at this point, and no one would notice the difference.
Sometimes, I can't get my hands to do what my brain hears no matter which grip I'm using 😅
Hey Todd, did you ever march snare in Drum Corps?
No, but we had a competitive line in high school that was serious.
@@toddsucherman Thank you for your reply and your drum cam vids. You are a very tasty drummer with killer flams and incredible dynamics. Keep layin' that melodic groove.
👊🏼😎👍🏼
Hi Todd!!!
My dad was a true "switch" traditional grip drummer!! I thought... (🙄... how old fashioned he was!!🤣🤭🤫) He was a giant of a man and to see this big guy playing "switch" grip and with great finesse, not too mention a left-hand dominant human, he always said it felt more comfortable, until time and tempo changes made it sooooo conducive to success and "staying on the beat!"
I still, (though I tried, traditional, wanted to make my dad proud of me!!!!!) couldn't find that "comfort level" that he seemed so "locked" into!!
My dad was my beginning teacher, he too was an awesome dad, and allowed me to be "young and foolish," saying, "one day you'll come around and better understand the benefits of both grips!!" Sadly he passed away before that could ever happen!! I continued to work really hard at playing both traditional, matched and of course, "switched grip!!" My music, that was highly influenced by my parents musical tastes, from "Alois hirt" and his contributions to all those Big Bands of the thirties, forties and fifties The "Mod sounds of the sixties... The "Green Hornet" woulda' just been another T.V. show w/o Al's contributions and his drummers (drmrs: Frank Hudec, Paul Ferrara!!) And on to Herb Albert who himself followed a similar path to Al, however... Herb had who I thought was the coolest drummer in the world in the late sixties and early-mid seventies... (Hal Blaine...) theee VERY same drummer from the "super group" that really never was... "The Wrecking Crew!!!!" For those who know not of that band... I am veryyyyy sure Todd does... but for all those who don't... just watch almost ANY T.V. show from 1960 through 1980 and you'll be hearing...(🤔... NO WAIT...) Attending a "WRECKING CREW" concert!!! Even Johnny Carson.... 😳.... huhh, ya say.... yeah get was a damn good drummer before late-night T.V.!! And of course as my musical tastes grew and became more "eclectic" and "main stream" into "Standard R-n-R," into well... jazz, acid rock, punk, broadway musicals, heavy metal, easy listening, college rock, new wave, post and British invasion, motown and all things "Hitsville," country, old and new country, folk, progressive ....(😁,) showtunes....and all those great drummers that created and or played in those genre's, OK, OK...I was all over the place!! But that truly helps! But in my freshman year of H.S. is when it all came together, and the hours of "traditional," "matched," "switched" grip paid off... I joined marching band and my knowledge, plus the "flashyness" of "The Moeller Method" was going to make me a sure fit and "first chair," "front-line," "Big-man-on- campus...!!" Well until about my junior year... then, it just wasn't cool anymore, "My kit," and the "wool jacket," "gauntlets,"
"Bibs," three or four "Sashes," the damn heavy "Shako" making the sweat run into my eyes, all while keeping tempo in this "Greco-Roman" formation.... Oiiiiyyyy!!!
Rock bands just were where it was at for me!!
Thennnnnnnnnn, "GIRLS!!" Oh, "thank heaven for....!" And that is where it all came crashing down as a drummer!! Oh, I played in a lot of really good local bands, recorded a "shit-ton" of cover and original music in which I wrote hundreds, maybe thousands of songs. Just not good enough to get recognized for a recording deal!! I did continue my education in the industry, Audio and electronic engineering in NYC, worked there too, working with Jordan, Ward, Purdy, Frondelli, Redding, Peart, Snow... But all as an engineer!! Though the first two, I was able to spend a bit of time with them, relearn stuff I had kinda forgotten and those two were "switched grip maniacs!!" Gave me a new sense of appreciation for a technique I had lost!! Life changed drastically, now I am trying to start all over again!! This time though, right out of the gate... "SWITCHED GRIP" ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!
ANYWAY, KEEP ON KEEPING ON BROTHER DRUMMER!!!!!!!!!!
PEACE !!!!!!!!!!🤘🏼
It bears commenting on why traditional grip even exists. There’s no logical reason that it should exist if you consider that we are basically symmetrical beings. Why would you hold one stick one way in one hand and completely differently in the other. Our hands are (barring some injury) identical. Of course, we are all right handed or left handed except for the very rare ambidextrous and that could be an argument though I don’t believe it really affects the argument. The short answer for those that have played as a marching drummer is that at one time, drums were slung to one side and a matched grip was extremely awkward, thus a grip was developed that allowed the drummer to angle the sticks in a way that was parallel to the drumhead. This carried over as a matter of tradition. There really isn’t an anatomical reason for traditional grip to even exist in the modern era as even marching drums now are perpendicular to the drummer’s body and thus, traditional grip serves no useful purpose practically speaking. That being said, many of us were taught the traditional grip and it often feels more natural to us under certain circumstances. I find that any time I’m playing a song with a jazz feel I automatically switch to traditional grip as it puts me in a frame of mind that is more conducive to the spirit of the style. One obvious advantage is that it gives me more physical clearance as the pivot point on my left hand changes and I’m less likely to have one hand or stick interfere with the other. However, I also find that I find that on songs requiring more power from my left hand, a matched grip is far more comfortable. I am almost 52 and the wear and tear gets to you after all those years. It’s just difficult for me to produce sustained power from a traditional grip for very long. Traditional grip has declined in popularity over the years and I predict that at some point, it will disappear entirely. Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing is debatable. As my primary drums are almost 50 year old Rogers, I guess I fall on the side of there being something to be said for history and tradition.
But Daru Jones.....Yeah and he will have back problems later in life 100%.
"There's always a guy" that will do their thing, and that's totally fine! 👍🏻
@@toddsucherman I'm just gonna have to live _without_ lower back problems ! 😔 I'll try !
If Traditional Grip is sooo great why does nobody ever ever not even once play with BOTH sticks in the left-hand or pencil-type grip. Or make the gimpy hand the right hand.
Great idea. You first.
I could never do traditional.
It's absolutely not a natural grip at all and I don't think it makes sense in a modern rock or contemporary era.
I would love to play ever snare in that room!