Refused to Show Receipt: Arrested! LL Update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- A man was arrested in OH after an incident which began when he refused to show his receipt at the door of Walmart.
My previous video: • Can a Store Force You ...
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I purchased large electronics at Walmart last year and had no problem when they wanted the receipt at the door, I had no problem with the second check of purchase, but when I had to wait around for the 3rd confirmation, I politely said to them.. you know what, I changed my mind and want a refund. When the manager approached me and asked, I simply told him that their security procedures are beyond ridiculous.
The fool wasn't arrested for not showing the Receipt...he was arrested for his mistakes when dealing with the police.
How can you be arrested for resisting arrest? Shouldn’t you be arrested for something else first and the resisting part be just an added bonus?
Sami Anttila No. Resisting is its own crime in most states. It usually entails obstructing an investigation all the way up to resisting with violence. Some DAs and jurisdictions have policies that automatically drop resisting charges if not accompanied by another crime or without violence.
Assault first, resisting second... then the theft needs to be determined third. He's probably guilty of multiple thefts... so at least they'll get him on the two charges.
If they detain you with cuffs & you fight them.
Some folks are so stupid. It takes maybe 30 seconds or less to show a receipt and be on their way. I make a point of asking the greeter if he needs to see my receipt...sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't but it makes life more pleasant for both of us and that's a good thing.
This is the only actual comment i have about the video, and its completely unrelated. Resisting arrest shouldnt be a crime in and of itself.
I hope you are not recommending people actually sure their receipt. I am 54 years old and I have never showed my receipt after making a purchase. This includesv Walmart, Best Buy, and too many others to list. The only places I will show my receipt is at stores like Costco, Sam's, and others where you sign an agreement to show the receipt upon leaving. Other than that, HELL NO!
As I told my children. This is a free country, you are free to be as stupid as you want to be, but then you have to deal with society. Sometimes society can be a bitch.
Steve. How can someone be arrested for resisting arrest? Shouldn't there be an original charge and resisting arrest as a secondary charge?
Once the police show up & you refuse to cooperate, that can be taken as interfering with a officer in the course of his or her duty, & making threats is not going to help your cause, duh.
Yeah, I didn't really get that point, either. I'm getting the idea that the guy WAS NOT arrested for "failure to show receipt when asked." Rather, it may be that he was creating a "public disturbance" or somesuch, as he was belligerent with the greeter, and then didn't cooperate with the police. If the guy refused a lawful order from the police, then he could (obviously) be arrested. The greeter could possibly make a "citizen's arrest," but that is a real bucket of worms, and could open up the greeter, and the store, to significant liability.
@@sphinxrising1129 the abuse resisting arrest. If you tense up when handcuffed they will say you are resisting.
Ever hear of the 4th amendment?
See? A guy did something dumb and it wasn't in Florida!
Are you a Bob & Sheri listener?
Google People of Walmart - they may as well have an Oklahoma section in there.
WHY doesn't Walmart just use the PAID stickers for larger items like every other chain store does? It would make all of the receipt checking bs unnessicary.
I've been asked before and gladly show cause I'm not a jerk or get offended by everything..
If he threatens the greeter or a police officer that should be more serious charge than not showing a receipt. So he made a mountain out of a mole hill. Correct?
When I am asked to show a receipt I always ask for a manager, and when the manager shows I ask that person if they want to see my receipt. If the manager says yes then I politely say follow me and I walk to the customer service deck. I then at that time start unloading the cart onto the counter and say here is my receipt I would like a complete refund😁 it has happened twice they now know me and dont ask to see a receipt anymore.
Like Steve said in an earlier video you are a sheep who still shops at stores that have accused you of being a thief. I haven't shopped in a walmart for years because I hate the way they treat their employees and customers. Maybe if more people stopped shopping their wally world would change its habits
I'm not showing them anything
Rather then have people checking you receipt maybe they should use those people to open more registers!
Haven't bothered shopping at Walmart for years. Amazon isn't rude.
I've always wondered about the "Being arrested for resisting arrest."
I think you can be arrested/detained for investigation and if you resist arrest during that, they will just arrest you on that and continue what they were doing later. Even if the earlier arrest didn't end in a chargeable crime, if the arrest was reasonable, than charging someone with resisting can be reasonable too.
They have the burden of proof. You don't have to prove anything.
Exactly
When I'm requested to show my receipt, I politely say"Thanks, but no." and continue on my way without breaking stride. Sometimes there's a line of people, and I just step around them and go on my way. I don't confront or argue, or stop to make a point. I just go on about my business. No problems in the 15-20 years that the local walmart has had the 'greeters' facing inside.
I like to wear headphones when I shop, I always have and I always will. Back when Walmart first started checking everyone’s receipts I was unaware of this new policy. I walked past the person in the yellow and I noticed that they move their arm and I assumed that they were waving goodbye. Apparently they were asking for my receipt, but I couldn’t hear them. The next thing I knew that person had grabbed my shoulder and try to spin me around. I am immediately went into self-defense mode and used my hand to hand combat training to break their gold on me and in the process and nearly broke this persons arm. The store manager called the police whom showed up very promptly. When the police looked at the video and took all of our statements they proceeded to inform the store that if they wanted to press assault and battery charges against me, their greeter would also be going to jail for battery. The whole thing went away very quickly after that.
if you do not want to show receipt just say " No Thank you" and keep walking. . Maybe Wal-Mart should provide large item stickers like a good vendor.
Like they do with Milk and things like that. OH the good ol' days.
I don't have a problem showing my receipt at a membership only store like costco, it's part of the agreement you make to shop in their store.
but it seems like harassment if you didn't sign any such agreement... at least if you don't look suspicious.
Sounds like he was arrested because of his threats rather than the receipt.
I think it would be a useful learning experience for some people to take a job where they have to deal with the public all day long. I think it would be an eye opening experience to have to deal with people who act like they do. There used to be what was called simple common decency, and something called manners. Respect all people and you will have a better life in the long run.
I don't think accusing people that have clearly just made a purchase of stealing is common decency. The charged man definitely made a purchase, and is accused of having stolen something without any actual evidence that a theft occurred.
Now, had he walked around the registers or been seen to hide something under the bags, that would be completely different.
Love your channel and your advice Steve. But, I absolutely refuse to let any Walmart greeter see my receipt. I don’t shoplift, or threaten anyone. I just keep moving.
I get asked no matter whether I have loose items or not. Don’t care, not stopping to let someone check my receipt.
Once purchased, those items are no longer the store's merchandise. They are now the personal items of the buyer. Are you not now supposed to be safe from search, seizure, or detainment in respect to your person and possessions? Without the Glock and threats, doesn't any detainment require some level of probable cause? For membership stores such as Costco and Sam's, you signed an agreement to be verified when leaving with any goods by receipt and inspection. Not so at a regular retail store.
And i can see him having a BIG payday when hes found not guilty of theft and takes walmart to court.
I strongly disagree that just because the greeter doesn't know if you paid they have probable cause. Stay polite and cooperate with police and you will not be arrested and the store will look bad for wasting the polices' time. Not at Costco of course, but at Best Buy I say "no thank you" and keep walking, haven't had a problem yet.
The store has a desire to make sure, but that doesn't create an obligation for me to subject myself to a search or "prove" my property is my property. They could tell me to never come back and that would be their right. But whatever they are not sure of is their problem and I am not going to make it mine.
Or they can watch suspicious people and hold people they catch actually shoplifting. When I worked at a grocery store someone would just follow around customers who did stuff like grab a carton or 2 of cigarettes and then walk around looking for a place in the aisles they could slip them inside their coats. The store has to do the work to get probable cause. They don't have a right to search everyone.
@@contentioushackery you do realize it's a private business and doesn't fall under the 4th amendment
I don't understand why someone wouldn't show the receipt, other than just wanting to be a jerk.
They are calling you a thief. That is why!
@@MrWhiteprobea No, they are protecting their stores from thieves.........
I'll tell you why I find it annoying... because I've done nothing wrong, and I am being detained in a store that I have just given my money to, and what in the cart or in my hand no longer belongs to them. It's mine, and I should not have to prove it. They have cameras, they should be watching them.
Something similar happened once when I was driving home from the supermarket on a very hot day with ice cream in my vehicle. The police were having a road block on a very busy road on a Friday afternoon. Traffic was backed up for a good distance. I spent nearly 15 minutes (no exaggeration) before I got to the road block, but the police were not checking for DUI's... there were checking for seat belt use, IDs, registration, and proof and insurance. 5:30, on a Friday afternoon, when folks are all headed home from work. To top it off, the local news station is there with cameras and a microphone going from car to car asking people what they think of the traffic stop. (Also holding up traffic, btw.) When they got to me, and asked what I thought, I showed them my ice cream that was melting.
Bottom line... I had on my seat belt, and all of my paperwork was current. Melted ice cream. Held up and detained when I've done nothing wrong.
Actually, checking things that are atypical keeps cost down. It can also show a consistent approach to Loss Prevention that deters theft and demonstrates non-prejudicial treatment. Being a jerk about it is a public nuisance for everyone in the vacinity and people who don't like it should exercise their ability to shop elsewhere, IMHO.
i do walmart pickup. i order groceries online and then walmart puts them in my car. i never have to enter the store. avoids receipt checking. no extra charge and tipping not allowed
I'm going to do that this summer, Foxie Dog likes to be with me all the time.
I won't shop at businesses that treat me like a criminal for shopping at their business.
Good idea to go somewhere else, and write a letter of complaint to the store management, if you want to . Picking on some minimum wage clerk, as some people are so proud to do, is just ridiculous.
They treat you like criminal because the law prohibits them from profiling people whom they believe to be stealing so to get around that, they check everyone. Do you get offended when a cashier checks your $20 or $100 bill to make sure it's real? Because if you've ever received a fake bill you'd understand. It's really not a big deal.
This brings up a question I've had.
Can resisting arrest be the primary and ONLY charge? It seems to me that you need to be under arrest for something before you can resist that arrest, but I see it time and time again.
Burden of proof is on the merchant, NOT the patron!!
I just totally ignore them like they don't exist
This isn't a very good example of showing or not your receipt at Wal-Mart since the guy was arrested for being belligerent not for refusing to show the receipt to the Wal-Mart employee. If he had simply stood his ground firmly but politely, it would probably have ended differently. Now, I don't know whether the police would (or should) take Wal-Mart's side, but when the police ask you to hand the receipt over, you should hand it over whether you agree or not. You can take it up with the courts later if you wish.
I have done two videos before this one on receipts. I didn't pick this case because it was a "very good example" of anything. I talked about it because it was in the news.
"but when the police ask you to hand the receipt over, you should hand it over whether you agree or not."
No, you should not. If the police want to search your property they must have a warrant. If I am required to obey the law, the cops are required as well. No warrant, no search.
I have refused receipt checks before. I find that if you just say “no thank you” in a polite manner, then immediately walk out, it usually works fine
So what was the primary charge for arrest? Resisting arrest is a secondary charge!
To me it sounds like a contemplative cop charge.
If the greeter feels like items haven’t been paid for they may request that the individual stand by while they pull up the register receipt log or may ask you to provide your receipt to expedite the process. By no means are you required to help them.
However loss prevention may detain an individual for theft because he has knowledge or witnessed items being taken.
just say no thanks and keep walking. do not try to cause an issue
Outside of Sams Culb/Costco, I have never been asked for a receipt while leaving the store. If I ever should be asked for one I would show it, I have better things to do than get into a confrontation.
kc8bdr
Good for you... i wont.
Bull its not the customers fault that walmart doesn't have big enough bags or stickers. Maybe people need to start demanding item's be bagged regardless how big or demand a sticker.
Some people believe in exercising their rights, others are lazy, and don’t, exercise. People are different and as you say “live yr life” I prefer not to comply sheep-like. I like my privacy, and appreciate the efforts of my forefathers in securing the rights that I now have left, uneroded by people that will not exercise theirs.
The consumer messed up when he threatened the receipt checker. If he would have left it at "no thanks" when asked for the receipt, I don't think he would have been arrested.
IF anyone else does this type of protest, at least be civil about it please.
Why would refusing to show your receipt be probable cause that you stole something but refusing to talk to police isn't probable cause that you committed some other crime?
well I would think it's because, it's way more unlikely that you would not to get a receipt for something you did legit pay for, then that you don't want to stop and talk to the cops all day about things you could very well have nothing to do with. A chat with the police takes a lot of time when compared to the amount of time it takes to glace over a receipt for the few items that are in question to make sure they are on there. so you might not have time to get into a conversation, but it's not seen as unreasonable to to spend a minute or two for them to look over the receipt.
@@CrossRoadsOfTime It's absolutely unreasonable to take "a minute or two" to get past the gatekeeper and walk out of the store where I just bought something. Seems like the same justification as for DUI stops, "oh it doesn't take thaaaaat long, and we may even catch a few baddies by inconveniencing everyone!"
@@basketbal44champ well I was explaining the logic the store, and likely the cops, (and the courts) are most likely using to say checking receipts are acceptable. besides half the reason those checks take long is all the times people try to get out of showing it.
plus think about this we are talking about the same store that thinks 20+ minutes waiting in line to checkout is acceptable because hiring more cashiers is to expensive and wouldn't bring in enough money to offset the extra cost. Why on earth would they pay for someone to just stand at the door if they didn't have proof that he's catching a lot of actual shoplifters? and not just a few mind you but enough to justify all the costs involved in having hiring enough people so that there is always at least one of them on duty at both doors? to them the short wait is totally acceptable. And as much as you want it to be other wise, their view of the situation isn't going to change.
If I have MY OWN PROPERTY (having purchased it and there existing proof of such in receipt or other form) then I have no obligation to show another citizen proof that I own that property. “Glock in your face” threat not withstanding, if a Walmart citizen employee can demand I prove that I own the things in my basket, then they can demand I prove I own EVERYTHING on my person, including my wallet, my sunglasses, my eyeglasses, my necktie, my underwear, or anything else that I have on me. Either my property is mine, and no one has the right to challenge my ownership of said property, or it is not. If a Walmart employee can demand proof that I own that which is in my possession due to a “feeling” that I have stolen the item or items, then I have the same right to demand that Walmart employee prove to me that he or she owns the shirt they are wearing. After all, perhaps I have a feeling she has stolen the skirt she’s wearing.
Unless store employees are granted ‘special rights’ above and beyond those of waitresses, plumbers, electricians, medical practitioners, or any other non-government officers serving in the course of his or her duty, then I possess those very same rights. If one citizen has the right to detain another for reasons of property confirmation should they question that persons legitimate ownership of a particular item, then ALL have the right to detain those same persons for those same suspicions and reasons for the same property confirmation.
If a store or person thinks that their property or their employer’s property has been stolen, then have the same remedy as I do. They can call the police, have the offending party arrested for theft, and let the court battle ensue. Only fundamental and qualitative difference I see is that one is a mere citizen and the other is a multi-billion dollar corporation.
If the legal system giving ‘intrusive check and detainment rights and powers’ to one and denying those same rights and powers to another, that would be unfairly favoring the one over the other, would it not?
We were told by Walmart staff that they always ask for the receipt if there is an unbagged item. Well, they never bagged our milk, or flats of cat food... Now we insist on a bag. The thing is, Walmart is checking on the integrity of their cashiers when they do this. I've been told that the concern is that clerks may not ring up all the items when a friend goes through their line. Okay... fine... But wouldn't a thieving cashier put their friend's items in a bag? I'm not buying that explanation. I don't object to the practice at Costco, because I agreed to that when I signed up. But Walmart? I would just walk back to "customer service" and refund everything. I rarely shop there because of this practice. Ironically... I go to Costco... and show my receipt. LOL
Steve they could have stoped him look at the video to see if paid for it . The arrest is about resisting arrest and not so much as not showing the receipt .
So he interfered with a police investigation and then threatened the officer. So he wasn't arrested for refusing to show his receipt. That was just what instigated the process to him actually breaking the law.
blue ferral well, anytime the police get their little feelings hurt, they charge you with disorderly, or assault on them. Then they immediately start yelling quit resisting so they can tack that on too. That's their go to just to try and show superiority over you. Then you spend thousands to prove your innocence. That's the game they play. Fuck the mafia.
@@baddrivercam I'm sure there are bad apples that do that. Not all cops are bad.
I threatened to return 300$ in groceries and the manager backed down
i have been asked for a receipt when leaving walmart and I just say no thanks and keep walking. nothing has ever happened.
Yep, show the receipt. Sure it's annoying, but less annoying than being arrested. If you really feel that you are being singled out or picked on and wish to protest being treated like a thief, then, AFTER showing your receipt, march back over to customer service with your receipt and return the whole order. Then never shop there again.
Easy fix..dont shop at walmart...Go to a mom and pop store..Support local shops...Dont give money to someone that dont care if you shop there or not.
> REFUSE TO GIVE UP MY CONSTITIONAL RIGHTS!!! ESP IN A BS STORE LIKE WALMART!
Do you see being asked for a receipt before leaving a business's walls as an attack upon your person? Do you define yourself as being above the human race (based on the rudeness expressed in many of the posts) and supporting covering for shoplifters (effect of refusing this simple business check)? Your reaction to the receipt checker is not invisible to others.
Even if not required by law, I am fine with showing my receipt within the merchant's walls especially if I have un-bagged items. It is part of the transaction, so is walking into the business in the first place.
Theres a huge difference between refusing to show a receipt and being suspected of shoplifting. If they suspected you of shoplifting then they should say that, and tell you the police are on the way. If they ask for a reciept, and say to you how do we know you didnt sreal that stuff..well thats not my problem. If you know i stole it, then use the shopkeepers rightz law to detain me for police..you cant just say oh you might hsve stolen. Everyone in the store might have stolen, are you gknna search everyone.
I'm convinced. Tell the judge when you're arrested, you likely won't be charged with anything. Victory!
If one is arrested for merely not showing a receipt (there is no probable cause for arrest) then it is a winning lawsuit. Period!
Did you even watch the video? So many idiots in the comments, I copied this (from these comments) to another reply I wrote to another lolbert who must shop at Walmart and is too stupid to understand the transaction.
California Penal Code section 490.5(f)(1):
(f) (1) A merchant may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the merchant has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to unlawfully take or has unlawfully taken merchandise from the merchant’s premises.
You aren't arrested for not showing the receipt, they detain and determine whether or not you've shoplifted then they let you go, if you resist they call the police and they will sort it out which will waste more of your time. No the stores don't do this but they easily could and if they think you've stolen something or are trying to walk out with a TV in your cart (paid for or otherwise) and you tell them to fuck off when they ask you for your receipt you better believe they will call security.
You would almost certainly not be charged with anything, but you even more certainly would not be entitled to any damages of any kind.
Arrested for resisting arrest...NOT failure to show receipt!
Yes, and the story form was 1) incident began with a man refusing to show receipt . . . . . 2) ended with arrest.
Steve Lehto God Bless American journalists!
This is what Loss Prevention gets paid to do, not turned around f'ing Walmart Greeters. They have no business trying to stop anyone for receipts... They can ask, but you're not required to comply.
My response has been the same: "If you have a problem with me, call Loss Prevention." and I walk out the door. I've shown them (voluntarily) a receipt only once and it was because my entire cart was unbagged (3 large items). The guy just nodded to me and I kept going.
Screw Walmart, or any other store that wants me to show a receipt for something I now own! If I am in a store that requires to show a receipt because you're in a club then that's reasonable if it is rule for being in that club store like Costco, or Sams Club.
If they want me to have all my items bagged so they don’t suspect me not paying for something then they better start providing us with bags that the large items of merchandise can fit into. Not our fault they don’t provide bags to fit those items.
Here in the UK they tape the bag around the item, it does not cover much of the item but it works as shoplifters would not do that.
I just walk right by the Walmart greeter and ignore them
Oh shit we got a badass
I've never had a receipt check take more than ten seconds. In my experience, they barely even look at it.
they dont read it at all. it is security theater
I would do them one better. Tell the officer lets go to the return counter and i will present my receipt to the return clerk as they process my return and after that i want the merchant charged.
Use your rights or lose them
Yeah, fighting with a minimum wage clerk who is only doing what they were told to do, is just like being Rosa Parks and refusing to sit at the back of the bus.
The only purpose of the greeter is a deterrent. If they weren't there people would steal alot more.
Refusing to show the “greeter” a receipt is fine. His mistake was threatening to assault the police officer and resisting arrest
Which we both know those are code for the police not having any other reason to book you!.. so they fabricate the resisting part because you tell them you have rights and then they say are you threatening me.?? Then goes another charge to chalk up for themselves to justify the arrest... this will be a settlement for both the city and Walmart false arrest, Infliction of emotional Distress, false imprisonment, assault and battery as I’m assuming the took him to the ground while he was “resisting” guarantee they weren’t wearing Body cameras such To show the interaction
I have a question. Arrested for resisting arrest. But no other chargers. ? What was the arrest for?
I suspect the charges will drop. And he will sue and win
He assaulted the cop. When being arrested for that he resisted. They don't have to charge you with every possible thing. Sometimes they charge you with the easiest charge to prove. The resisting charge in this instance might be easier to prove than the shoplifting. And probably carries a more severe penalty.
Steve, if he was arrested for assaulting a police officer, that would be sooo easy for cop to prove, his word or cop's word? No contest the cops word.
Now if he assaulted cop and resisted arrest along with shoplifting I can see why they would drop the shoplifting, because he didn't steal anything?
But they would never drop a charge of assault on an officer. Never.
So why did he get jammed up with a resisting charge?
Maybe because it was a bogus charge.
So you're defending a single charge of resisting arrest? I sure hope I get called to a jury for one of those cases.
While all of that is going on, I’m walking out the door with my stuff.
*free stuff!!!
First I would like to say that I love the videos that you put out Steve. I watch almost everyone.
Let me just say this, that the police officer was working an extra job at Walmart, so the police officer was already on site. So it is not like the Walmart greeter detained this individual and waited for the police to arrive. So like someone already stated he was arrested for a threatening remark he made to the police officer and not for just plainly not showing a receipt.
Also isn't it funny that the man was not charged with any type of theft, even after being arrested.
I hope the man in question does not take some sort of deal from the prosecutor. I hope that this does go to court and that the man does have good representation to see how the courts rule on this behavior. But again the issue is not the showing of the receipt but the threatening remarks that was said. We will see.
No one would have to argue with you, having un bagged items in a cart and not showing your receipt in no way legally amounts to "probable cause". Maybe the man threatening a police officer and resisting arrest had something to do with it.
Nothing to do with the actual case, but, honestly, arrested for resisting arrest has ALWAYS seem stupid to me. Seriously, you should do a video on how that is legal.
He assaulted the police officer. That is also illegal.
@@stevelehto Absolutely it is illegal. I may have misheard you, but I thought you said he was just arrested on the charge of resisting arrest. My apologies if you said there were other charges.
Side note: thanks 4 your videos, you certainly make legal issues entertaining to watch, which allows us "laymen" to grasp needed concepts.
@@charlesgmcd You don't have to be charged with the same thing you were arrested for. They could have arrested him for any number of things but later only charged him for resisting said arrest.
My defense against store receipt searches:
After paying at the cashier lane (so far none of the stores offer a discount for me to perform their associates' work at the self-checkout) and while walking towards the receipt-checker, I shove my receipt down inside the front of my pants (it is MY receipt, isn't it?).
Deep down.
So deep that I am getting nut sweat on it.
I make sure that the checker sees me doing this.
I never get asked to show my receipt.
I Had that happen to me. The greater grabbed me I knot the shit out of him. The cops arrested him for grabbing me. they changed him with assault.
Threatening to return it. Depending on the amount will almost always cause them to back down
Interesting point, how can the police only charge you with resisting arrest if they don't have another charge to arrest you on? Can you resist arrest if you aren't being arrested?
If the guy gave attitude to both the store staff, and later the police, you can bet that he was arrested.
You're arrested whenever you are required by the police officer to stay put. This happens a lot because officers often need to figure out the facts of what's going on before knowing if there's any basis for continued action. You'll see it at a traffic stop where you're not allowed to leave until the officer has done things like verified that there are no outstanding warrants and that the license and registration are up to date.
You're under arrest as in you can't leave, but in most cases they release you within a few minutes after having verified things and possibly issued a ticket. Not all arrests result in being taken into the station and booked. In fact, most of the time when people are under arrest nothing more comes of it than a report being filed.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade "You're arrested whenever you are required by the police officer to stay put." WRONG. That's called being detained.
If this is they way the want to run there store that is fine. My issue is there do not have large enough bags for some items, Say a Bike or large bag of dog food. If they do not provide them, they are setting them self up to have these issues.
Resisting is a secondary offense... He should beat that case easily
So he wasn't arrested for stealing anything. Then it must have been determined he paid for the items. Why was he arrested? If he had not resisted arrest what would the charge have been? Failure to produce a receipt? Contempt of cop? The law says that the man can be detained for a short time in the store but then what happens? If, as it appears, he stole nothing then no laws were broken and the arrest appears unjustified.
He assaulted the cop. Turns out that's illegal in Ohio.
@@stevelehto Is there a state that allows it? Asking for a friend...
We have trouble getting the cops to show when we catch a shoplifter. Often they just give us a crime number, tell us to take the person's name and address and let them go. I suspect that when the store called the cops, there was probably a unit car in the parking lot getting some donuts at that time. The phone operator probably showed a unit on site, so they put the call through to them. I also have a feeling that the incident was more about the guy being abusive and possibly violent toward staff than just simply not showing a receipt.
If they suspect you of committing a crime, it's on them to check the security cameras and determine if there even was a crime..Walmart had also stated in their policy that if they ask for a receipt and is denied, to NOT push the issue and if they suspect a theft, to pull footage and call the authorities..not harass a patron without evidence first
Thats walmarts problem of not bagging, not mine.
Steve
So he was charged with resisting arrest. Had he been civil, what would they have charged him with? He was charged as a result of the police encounter, and not his shopping cart.
I know a lot of stores put a sticker on large items that are not bag-able. Plus they have the rfid tags that set off alarms. They have store dicks that look for shoplifters. The greeter is essentially saying prove you didn’t steal that item (guilty until proven innocent). I don’t think a shopper should have to prove they didn’t shoplift, or is probable cause not applicable in Walmart?
So do you also believe Walmart or any other store is required to let you come on to their property and make your own rules and procedures?....And Do You believe that there is no such thing as property rights? ....Like maybe there is no place to park so I just drive up on your lawn and park my car?
Steve Bell
Walmart does have rules, which I obey. I shop, I pay, then I leave. They have store security, cameras, and those little rfid detectors at the exit. Just because I have a box with a 60” tv in the cart that isn’t in a plastic bag doesn’t mean it was stolen. If they’re going to ask for a receipt, they should have a sign at each exit stating such (a rule).
Shopping at Walmart is not the same as someone parking on your lawn. Private property vs commercial.
So if a Walmart employee wanted to search your pockets, do a strip search, or maybe a body cavity search, you’d be ok with their new unpublished rule? Tell me what your rules are up front, enforce them for everyone, and I’ll let you know if I’ll shop there.
@@michael.w.salter I think that you are missing several points...1. I don't think that the bag or no bag issue is actually relevant...And it is not part of my argument..
2. I'm not a lawyer so go ahead and as a real on if you wish...But Walmart is private property and they can and do inforce policies and procedures...and A private security officer on private property can and frequently does exercise powers in excess of The Police...but only on the property of his client the owner of that property...
3. You may of may not like or agree with what Walmart does....BUT...None of the employees or the agents of that company is doing ANYTHING that they are not instructed to do by Upper Management and in total compliance with company policy and procedure...Walmart and all of those large corporate entities...Micro Manage to the extreme...And if they were required to post policy signs those signs would be there....Walmart has all of the lawyers that they could ever need...
4. Of course there are limits and you can bet that they know what those limits are...But I ask you...In Your Personal Life Experience...How often have you seen the courts come down on the side of someone like you and how often have you seen then come down on the side of the giant enity with all of the money and power and plenty of lawyers?
5. And finally Walmart is a monopoly they don't care in the least if you shop there or not...If you chose to read Sam's book...(Yes I did)...He stated plainly how he intentionally makes his managers shp the Mom & Pop competitors when Walmart comes to a new town and come back to their store and do what ever it takes to bust them...Regardless of profit or loss...Only after they have busted them do they adjust the prices back to normal...
Not me saying it It's a quote from the book....No not nice ....Ruthless!
One of my growing favorite pastimes is to enter our Walmart, send my wife off to shop, and spend some quality time after taking up a covert position of cover to observe what the greeter does to check sales receipts...The guy we have takes possession of the receipt, looks at it for 10 nano seconds, hands it back to the customer...ZERO item by item audit of product in cart vs receipt/item print out....so you could have that shopping cart loaded to the gills, but as long as its a receipt,,and the greeter takes time to see the day and the date..you're out the door.
4catsnow I like to show them a receipt from a different store, they haven’t noticed in the dozen times I’ve done it.
If you are going to detain someone then you have to articulate a reasonable suspicion crime they have committed just like with a police officer. This also makes it the burden of Walmart to show this and not have a huge item bagged is not even out of the ordinary. Legal or not they are getting so much bad press over this it will fix itself.
If they are smart, they will say they saw something suspicious on camera or one of the loss prevention staff saw something suspicious and now you do not want to show the receipt which adds to their suspicion. They are entitled to hold you for a reasonable time to investigate. When I show the receipt, the reasonable time is 1.5 seconds, when I do not want to show the receipt it might be 15 minutes or more. Your choice.
I would think you would want to prove you paid for the item in question as it seems there is reasonable and probable cause to suspect you may have forgotten to have it checked and paid for. DOH!
It happens. But to say no and try to leave with it, seems just a wee bit suspicious! Which is also reasonable.
The key word there is...reasonable!
What is truly concerning is cops who show up without a real accusation, and do a fishing trip. The cops at that time become receipt-checkers, without an actual accusation that a person has stolen anything. Only if there is an actual accusation of theft does detainment kick in, and if it turns out that a receipt shows that all is well, then a lawsuit can be brought against the store for defamation of character.
Sounds like the person was arrested for; Threat to a Police Officer and resisting arrest. Not for failing to show a Walmart Greeter a receipt for the stuff in the cart. My other question would be for the probable cause, was the item to big to be bagged and do they still have plastic bags in Ohio?
I do know that in California and Hawaii that you are not required to show a receipt to store employees, but should a cop show up you will be required to show the cop the receipt since the cop is investigating the call.
Walmart refused to provide me with bag I specifically asked for items I paid for. Then they claim that they don’t know whether I paid for it or not
If stores posted the "shrink", items stolen/broken by customers. The business would get more sympathy. But by the comments here those who want to be offended and are looking for an argument are beyond reach.
Boy, I don't know what Wal-Mart you shop at...you'd be lucky if THREE checkouts are open...I QUIT shopping there...as I do NOT like their policy. Once they ACCEPT OUR MONEY...the property is OURS.
They also check your receipts at some of the large electronics box stores because they don't trust some of their cashiers. Some cashiers will allow an associate of theirs to come through the checkout line, only ringing up a few small inexpensive items, and then let them leave with a big ticket item/s unpaid for.
I worked night shift private security checking receipts at Walmart.. Getting flashed made it worth while.
Thanks Ken, that's a funny story.
Life can be stranger than fiction
Happy spring,
Ken
They trust us enough to scan our items. But don't trust us that we paid for items
I call click bait! The title of the video gives the impression that he was arrested for not showing the receipt. He was arrested for causing a brouhaha!
Many items in Walmart do not fit in bags, so that argument is crap.
However, when an item won't fit in a bag the Walmart cashier will put a sticker on it which is the equivalent of bagging it. So, your argument is crap!
Depending on the state if your illegally detained under color of law you can meet force with force. Ga has a law in place that allows for this if done correctly. The greeter forcibly detaining you would qualify for this.
You do realize that the phrase under the color of law only applies to a Law Enforcement Officer, or some other government agent. The only way it could apply to a private citizen is if they are acting at the behest of Law Enforcement.
Well, he sure found a way to make his life a bit more complicated.
reasonable cause does not mean that the "suspect" refuses to give evidence to their guilt or innocence. for by using that standard just merely existing would prove that someone is guilty of anything they are accused of regardless of the truth. reasonable would be Loss prevention followed the individual and seen them grab an item then upon review of the shelf seen it was empty and while watching the person at checkout witnessed that the item was not scanned then there is reasonable belief this person just stole the item and there for the law states they can be detained. reasonable does not mean an individual refuses to prove their guilt or innocence, as to stop the individual you must be able to articulate why you or any reasonable person would feel something was stolen. stating an item to big to be bagged or to big to be placed in the basket of a cart was not bagged or in the basket of a cart would not meet the standard as the item itself (that the retailer choose to sell) was designed to cause suspension. this is just another trick these retailers are using to cut back on loss prevention and thus making it so they have to pay less people lets hold these companies responsible and see some false imprisonment charges brought on them. as for the local police yes i agree just show them the recipet and go on your way however afterwords i would still press charges at both the company and the local pd as both had violated my rights. just to avoid jail time would i appease the police but i would let them know i was doing so under duress.
It's pretty clear that they wouldn't have had the right to do anything about his lack of willingness to share his receipt had other things not happened. Greeters should not be involved in the process of theft deterrence in that respect. It's up to security to catch these people.
Having an unbagged item in a cart is not really sufficient. I go to the grocery store all the time and I'll regularly get things that aren't put in bags because I didn't have enough bags. Not being in a bag is hardly a reasonable basis for probable cause here, even if it is under things as the clerk should have seen them there when taking bags and putting them into an empty cart.
Now, if security had him on camera taking the items and smuggling them past the register, that would have been a different matter. But, just having unbagged items shouldn't be sufficient to justify any sort of searches. Certainly not by the store.
What makes anyone think they don't have to prove they paid, just crazy. If it fits in a bag, ALWAYS put it in one.
I returned the stuff. have not been back to Walmart in 3 years.