ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- Here's Windii's Twitter. This video's existence is totally thanks to her.
/ girlbossuran
Sorry if I did not cover absolutely every detail of every single spinoff manual and obscure commercial and such. I wanted to focus primarily on things I believe can possibly be considered canon, as well as some of my own theories of how these things could be explained, if Sonic Team had any interest in creating a proper universe and canon. I'm only 1 man. This took forever to put together as is. I've got everything linked below. Go look it up yourself if you're curious. In retrospect, I suppose I could have touched on the beam Eggman uses in Sonic the Fighters to make monochrome clones of characters. Obviously it's just a thing for mirror matches. But it would kinda be a cool thing to see return as a boss in a Mania 2 or something wouldn't it?
I know I said I would keep it to Classic stuff, but then put a little Adventure in there. That's because Adventure was meant to build off the story set up already in the previous games. As the games go on, things change a lot. But that game is early enough that I think we can look at a number of things in that, and assume it lines up with the original intentions of the Classic games.
I know this may have come off a bit weaby with how much I was discrediting the localized material. But that's only because I do genuinely really like the original intended stories and concepts of these games, and so many people are unaware of them. Most people think of the far inferior, in my opinion, localized stories or cartoons and comics as how Sonic "used to be", when according to the creators, it never used to be like that at all.
I was originally thinking of just making 1 video of me just turning on the mic for an hour and rambling about whatever came to mind across all Sonic stories and lore. But I quickly realized that I had far, far, FAAAAR too much to talk about. So instead I went insane and decided to try making a ridiculously big video to see how it goes.
The other videos talking about Sonic stories will be different. I only went in so much detail here because of how unknown this stuff is. In future, since the games can tell actual stories on their own, I will take a more analytical approach, looking at the writing and storytelling techniques. And it'll probably 1 or 2 games per video because of that. And nowhere near as long... I hope.
The Original Story document is something. It has some of the original, scrapped concepts for Sonic in it, as well as more finalized material. It's not 100% clear what can and cannot be considered canon, but a lot of it is corroborated by other material. But those original concepts are pretty out there. Glad they didn't go with any of that. The Sonic the Hedgehog Story Comic manga is also cool. You get to see what some of those later scrapped concepts might have looked like. You'll have to look that one up for yourself. Both are very interesting.
If I got anything wrong, left out details or anyone has their own interesting theories, please do leave a comment. I'd love to hear it. And if you want to read up on this stuff yourself, here is every resource I referenced for making this video.
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretr...
• SegaSonic the Hedgehog...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretr...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
forums.sonicre...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
info.sonicretro...
You can support me here if you want. ko-fi.com/pari...
The classic Sonic games feel like an omage to many Hayao Miyazaki films in their themes of man vs nature and of human progress and the environment. Some are very obvious such as Angel Island being like Laputa the Island in the Sky in "Castle in the Sky". Also anthro animals fighting against humans wanting to develop land and destroy the environment reminds me alot of "Pom Poko". Sonic also feels alot like a classic Hayao Miyazaki protagonist; cool, a little cocky and pure of heart.
For sure. People often point to Star Wars and Dragon Ball as major influences for Sonic. But for the early games, Miyazaki was probably the biggest inspiration. I actually watched some old Miyazaki films for reference while working on this, and saw there are tons of things that are almost 1 for 1.
Flying battery is a Castle in the sky reference
@@Pariah6950 yo dude christmas island is a real place
Kind of. The aspects of the importance of nature comes from the cultural influences of Shinto, which obviously affected Miyazaki.
One of the things Japanese people had significant issue with was the sudden and massive increase in modernization after the events of world war 2. There was a hard push of industrial technology that spread outside of Tokyo. Many artists that were children during that time seem to share that sentiment of nature versus industrialization.
I never thought of that but you're right. It's sort of like how Crash was inspired by the Looney Toons cartoons that the creators watched growing up.
Y'know, in the Japanese manga, Sonic's dad is a pilot.
I bet if Sonic was born on Christmas Island, he inherited that biplane and used it to leave.
Oh, that pilot story... A weird alternate take is that Sonic is the ghost (or Yokai if you know what that is) of an airforce pilot... There was a graphic novel about it I think.
@@surgeeo1406 tails is immortal though
Well, he is 16. Maybe he got his pilot's license
If sonic got rebooted that origin story would be perfect.
@@aPonderousChain Well SEGA isn’t accurate at all in terms of age and what Characters can and Can’t do.
Tails is only 8 Years old but can Fly a plane no problem. Classic Sonic was made out to be the Past Version of Modern Sonic but was revealed to be a year older then Modern Sonic.
Not to mention there are specific rules for which characters can go Super and Hyper, and which can’t.
So yeah, SEGA can’t make up their mind, and that’s evident with how they can’t make up their mind on how fast they want Sonic to be
Sonic is an example of almost true freedom. He has no house, no stuff, no family, no friends (at the time of sonic 1). The only thing that tethers him to this world is his care of the environment. Over the games he sacrifices his freedom for companionship. Deep stuff.
He never sacrifices his freedom - he checks in from time to time with friends and help out then he’s back on his free adventure and he has friends in Sonic 1 stated all the animals on Christmas Island
Chaos Emeralds are crystallized life energy. They can be used to bring creatures and foliage back to life, as we saw in Sonic 1.
Eggman's substitute for Chaos Emeralds are baby animals, using them as batteries for his mechs.
Sonic is the perfect host for the Chaos Emeralds because he's naturally energetic, more full of life than any other creature on Earth. That's what gives him his Super form.
That's why Shadow died in the Final Hazard. He couldn't handle the energy as well as Sonic, being an artificial clone instead of a naturally-born animal.
Chaos emeralds give energy to all living things, manipulate dreams etc
They are also super substances.
Shadow didn’t die, apparently, in the true canon path of Shadow The Hedgehog, Eggman explains that he rescued shadow
@@razorionxvii638 No, it was confirmed in Heroes.
@@undeadbatman9762 And Shadow The Hedgehog is after Heroes. Eggman says it during the ending events of the true pathway
@@razorionxvii638 shadow dies until he doesn’t
Sonic’s favorite color being red makes Amy randomly switching to a red dress and boots absolutely hilarious
Ok so I wanna clear something up. South Island, Westside Island and Angel Island all used to be a single continent that at one point was guarded by Chaos. When the clans on that continent started waging war on each other trying to obtain the Emeralds power for themselves Perfect Chaos shattered the entire continent into pieces and the Emeralds scatter to each of the three islands - 6 on South, the 7th one on Westside and the Master Emerald on Angel Island. This is also why stages like Labrynth Zone and Hydrocity are flooded and the only thing left are the murals of the Owl Clan (Labrynth) and the Echidnas (Hydrocity). Chaos is the "dragon" Knuckles was afraid of.
The original theme of the games was Chaos vs Order. Sonic represents Chaos because of his free nature and Eggman is Order because he wants control over eveything. Knuckles represent Order as well, but Positive Order because of his role of protecting the Master Emerald and the island. Then finally comes Chaos who also... obviously represents Negative Chaos meaning destruction. They also represent the 4 elements - Sonic is air, Eggman is fire, Knuckles is earth and Chaos is water. Notice how the characters that represent Chaos are blue and Order are Red. And the logos for on the title screens are kind of Red vs Blue.
I'm well aware. But I was looking at this the way it was before Chaos and Sonic Adventure was created, back when these were just open-ended ideas that they could have done many different things with.
This ties things together even more so without contradictions too! Exploring themes in Sonic lore like this is so interesting to me.
I thought that for a while too, but there being only one set of Emeralds presents a plot hole.
South Island NEEDS its six Emeralds to stay afloat. Without them, they sink into the ocean. And when Sonic used them in the end of the first game to restore the wildlife, they vanished, probably back into the confines of the island itself.
My theory is that there were multiple sets of Emeralds that travel between Earth and the Special zone, found by other tribes. Or, if you wanna go by what goes in in SA2, they CREATED their own sets in an attempt to replicate the power of the first discovered set.
More likely, the first one. There were probably more than seven. Seven is just the magic number.
@@theholygamer969 Your right in that case, 3 and knuckles pretty much confirmed it.
@CripticLocker You mean super emeralds? Their power comes from those columns near the master emerald, and as seen in Knuckles' Chaotic, the columns basically contain master emerald chaos energy.
I feel like the "Dragon Egg" thing Knuckles was initially worried about may have been an idea that eventually lead to Chaos in SA1.
It was sealed in the Master Emerald after the fall of the Echidna Tribe (Sonic 2 and 3 refer to some fallen civilization). Perfect Chaos in particular has a reptilian design which are usually associated with Dragons and Chaos is a mutated Chao which hatch from eggs. Idk I could be stretching but it seems like this idea was refined over time.
I think the Dragon Egg may be the Master Emerald (the egg) that contained Chaos (the dragon)
It was actually from scrapped Sonic 3 boss of a dragon in space, there's only 1 image of it online and it's kinda bad (it was classic multiple spheres and head sprites)
@@TechBlade9000 could you give a link that shows it? I really wanna see that
@@TechBlade9000 I would like to see it
You're correct, yo.
One thing I always loved about Sonic's original personality is that he's neutral-good more than anything
Like you said, he wasn't a "hero", he doesn't care about authority or rules, he does things his way, that's something the modern games can't understand
I wish they let Sonic remain a blue nomadic anarchist, that was the best. Now he′s been so sanitized and made into a basic hero who tells the worst quips imaginable.
Sonic and the black knight is the perfect example of this
Pretty much.
@@KStone22 he’s still a generic hero in that game, he’s been like that since SA2.
@@RealAGuy I wouldn't say that, he said himself he doesn't care if everyone hates him for slaying the "King". And he explains that he just does what he has to do, in other words, do what he believes is right.
He was also quite rude in that game.
0:00 Introduction
3:53 Sonic’s Characterization
10:17 Eggman’s Characterization
13:42 The Story of Sonic 1
18:27 The Story of Sonic 2
20:58 Tails Characterization
26:05 The Story of Sonic 3 & Knuckles
30:53 Knuckles Characterization
36:32 The Story of Sonic CD
38:47 Amy’s Characterization
46:07 Metal Sonic Characterization
46:36 The Spinoff Games
50:43 Fang Characterization
55:16 Sonic The Fighters Characters
"Sonic loves the ocean"
Pretty ironic cuz he can't swim
He can run on water though.
Pretty sure it said "Sonic loves beaches" not the ocean
I’ve always seen Knuckles as an expert in specific things yet clearly an idiot when it comes to social interaction. He knows how to make and use traps on Sonic yet he’s dumb enough to use them on Sonic.
Knuckles be like:☝️ 🤓
I didn't know the classic Sonic games had so many inaccessible info and lore due to the localization changing the story, It was great to learn about those.
My interpretation of the Emeralds appearing on both South Island and West Side Island was that the after they are used, they disperse themselves somewhere else. Sonic used them in the first game so they teleported to a different island. I think thats why the Chaos Emeralds always have to be found again.
Should have watched the whole video before commenting, you literally mentioned this towards the end lol
@@summerruby8436 its also shown thats how it works in the anime
@@MartianFruit was just gonna mention that thats how they work in Sonic X
Wouldn't that mean that everytime Sonic exits his Super Sayain state the Emeralds would teleport away
@@thesmilingman7576 After thier power is used up. There's some recent media that Implies this.
While it's all head canon, I actually really like the idea of Knuckles going around Angle Island in search for treasure. I could see him having a stash of shiny and cool looking rocks and showing them to all the little flickies. I imagine he'd be very bored sitting around the Master Emerald alter all day, so when he allows himself some downtime that's what he does.
Sonic calling knuckles a treasure hunter in adventure 2 was him joking around in the original Japanese with knuckles, calling him a treasure hunter because he found all the pieces of the master emerald In adventure 1
@@SonicSega0964the english dub fucked that up
@@SonicSega0964 My headcanon of why Sonic called Knuckles a treasure hunter is that Knuckles sceretly wanted to become a treasure hunter and explore the world, but because of his duty, he was never able to fulfill that desire, so Sonic decided to humor Knuckles a little bit by assigning him to the mission. Like Sonic wanted Knuckles to have a taste of what treasure hunting actually is.
The whole bit about Sonic's true personality at the beginning of the video makes me think about my favorite of his portrayals, Sonic and the Black Knight. That game gets him EXACTLY right.
Great video, nice to see an understanding in the plot, as a kid I just though sonic 1 and 2 took place in the same area.
People not knowing what was going on in those games is exactly why I made this video. Happy to spread the knowledge. Thanks.
Well originally in the beta of Sonic 2
Green Hill was going to be the First level
Implying that It was the same island
Then why the fuck do tails use the tornado
@@ssg-eggunner *Sonic 2 is based on The code of Sonic 1*
@@xx_birhayranxx1113 Bro look at the concept art map
It clearly says "Green Hill" and not "emerald hill"
5:55-6:05 I think that same thing can be seen in Generations' mirror cutscene. After the two Sonics check each other out and Robotnik taunts them off screen, Sonic gives a smug look while Classic Sonic IMMEDIATELY springs into action.
Same abilities. Different personalities.
And Sonic found Eggman annoying at that time cause of how many times he defeated him.
@@playerback7722 Modern Sonic: “WAIT!!!” Isn’t he against waiting?
41:20 Sonic disliking races because he think it is unfair to his rivals would be a good explanation why Sonic would rather compete on hover boards in Sonic Riders.
I’d love to see a series(perhaps a cartoon or fangame) using these lore details, theories and headcanons. This ties everything together so well, part of me even wishes it wasn’t all scrapped and rebooted for Sonic Adventure now.
You and me both.
@@Pariah6950 well sonic origins plans to have added new cutscenes so maybe they will officially set the record strait on the lore
@@soulbound2well you were right to an extent
Was it really scrapped in Adventure.
I think when it comes to the Chaos Emerald and island lore, its possible that South Island is where the Emeralds were sealed, West Side Island was the main remnants of the ancient civilization, and Angel Island is the resting place of the Master Emerald, but ALSO all 3 could of been from the same civilization. South Island broke off from West Side horizontally into the ocean to keep the 7 emeralds adrift and Angel Island broke off vertically into the sky to make sure they never come back into contact with the Master Emerald.
Just my theory anyways.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles confirms that chaos emeralds come in different sets. Most sets have their own responsibilities but one or two have no other purpose other than to give energy to all living things.
@@arkhamknight620 Wait so there's more than one set of Chaos Emeralds?!
@@TheRealKazberry Yes, that explains why multiple sets of emeralds appear in different mystical islands and sub spaces.
@@TheRealKazberry from waht i've seen yea it seems like in teh classics there were multiple sets of emeralds, but in adventure that was retconned to just be 1 set of 7 emeralds
I would believe that all the islands have a special connection within each other, the Gods, and the Emeralds themselves as they were hidden away in subspace... Especially since considering that a new island resurfaced after the floaty island began floating again...
4:50 Funny thing is, this is why I believe that shiro maekawa’s (main writer of the series from 1998-2009) characterization of Sonic was the best one. It’s the only one that stayed true to the original characterization from the beginning. Take black knight for example. Sonic in this game is by definition the bad guy for going against the king, but he doesn’t care about that at all, as he believes he’s doing what’s right. The only characterization to come close to this is Ian Flynn’s in the IDW comics, so I’m glad that he was chosen as the writer for frontiers.
Seeing how different the original games stories were than we thought really gave me a different perspective in things. It was also frustrating seeing the contradictions going on seeing how they aren't really making complex stories here. (unlike the later stuff) But if there is one thing I love about these videos is not just discovering the true canon in things, but also creating these head canons to enhance the lore.
The whole head canon of these islands originally being one huge mass of land blew my mind, and is filling me with so much inspiration for potential stories with it. (I'm a bit of a fanfic writer) Sonic leads to a lot of inspiration for me cause there is so many stuff to look at, like the games, the shows, the comics, etc. And none of them really touch on the original Japanese storylines. Might be a long shot nowadays, but it would be nice to see these elements in some way in future Sonic stuff. Nice video!
Fun Fact - The game gear games are canon? Sonic 1 & 2 8-bit, and Sonic Chaos, all take place on South Island! Sonic 2’s prologue is supposed to be the adventures that Sonic and Tails have before the game. They go back to South Island when tails gets kidnapped.
@@razorionxvii638 Sonic 1 (8-bits) can happen right after (or before) the 16-bits counterpart.
Its sequel are complicated... First, Sonic 2 (8-bits), then Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble and Blast:
-The Sonic 2 manuals (American and Japanese) say *almost* the same informations, however there's a difference:
In the American manual, it's said that after sonic's *first time defeating eggman on South Island* (of course, Sonic 1), he received a letter from tails (he didn't even get out of the island after the adventure, so he never visited Western Island, or maybe Sonic 2 and 3K happened... before Sonic 1? That's confusing!) saying he was kidnapped and that stuff, after that, Sonic chased Eggman and the game starts.
In the Japanese manual, it's said that after *some adventure in South Island* (not necessarily Sonic 1, but it could be), Sonic got in *some whimsical adventures* (it's said in plural, adventure*s* , so maybe, it could be both Sonic 2 and 3K), and when he finally returned to South Island, he received a letter from Tails, saying he was kidnapped and that stuff, after that, Sonic chased Eggman and the game starts.
Source: Sonic Retro / Sonic 2 (8-Bit) Manuals
Did you spot the difference? In the American canon, this is a prologue of sonic 2 (16-bits), however in the Japanese canon, it could even be after Sonic 3 & Knuckles! (Even though it doesn't explain why sonic needs 6 emeralds instead of 7... maybe that's because robotnik has captured the seventh, as said in sonic chaos Japanese manual, but I'll get there).
After Sonic Adventure, the Japanese canon is most considered so... yes, the timeline's saved now!
*-Sonic Chaos/Sonic & Tails*
Did you know Sonic Chaos has 3 different stories? Yep! The Game Gear US Manual, the Game Gear JP Manual and the Master System EU manual!
Even though they're basically the same, there are some differences:
In the US manual, all what's said is that Robotnik got the red emerald, *making the others fly to a parallel universe...* (what?) causing the island to start sinking, so Sonic and Tails run after Robotnik.
In the EU manual, it's said that... *South Island is peaceful for a whole year!* (Yep!) Sonic & Tails are making Speedruns (literally) until one of the 6 emeralds (there aren't 7... ok?) is missing from the North Cave. The island starts sinking, so everybody start looking for that (d4mn fourth) chaos emerald, until a blue flicky finds out that it's Robotnik! *Sonic and Tails start running after him and the game starts*.
In the JP manual, *a rumor about eggman stealing one of the emeralds* is spread (no "6 emeralds-only" things are said, so it should be 7, basically confirming that's the probably canon story), so Sonic and Tails (who weren't at south island from the start) travel to South Island in Chaos! (that's not a title joke because the game's officially called Sonic & Tails in japan) They find Eggman with one of the emeralds while the other ones are scattering around (no parallel universe this time) , *they start chasing Eggman and the game starts.*
After reading the 3 manuals, it's obvious that the Japanese one is canon (so maybe, canonically, the name of the game should be Sonic & Tails instead of Sonic Chaos) because there is no "parallel dimension" or "only 6 emeralds" and also the game starts right after the manual.
Also, it's a direct sequel to Sonic 2 (8-bits)! That's true btw, if you wanna confirm that, just know that the 6 first bosses (according the tails' letter) were built just with one purpose: *destroy Sonic* and that's it. They're actually called "Master Robots". The "Master Robots" line is also present in Sonic Chaos (Yep, all the Sonic Chaos bosses are also Master Robots), like Robotnik immediately continued this line after Sonic 2 (8-bits), proving this is a direct sequel
*-Sonic Triple Trouble/ Sonic & Tails 2*
Both manuals (American and Japanese) say almost the same thing.
The major differences are that the after the "accidental explosion that scattered five of the emerald across the island", the Japanese manual describes a prologue of the intro of the game, while the American one just skips the character profiles. In that, it's detailed about *Metal Sonic* (this will be a problem to us) in the Japanese manual, while the American one just lets it to be a surprise for the end of the game.
Just a fun fact: in the Brazilian manual, it's *supposed to be* said that Knuckles was actually on vacation of guarding the Master Emerald and the his brother, Crucules, was keeping it, but he was tricked by Eggman. However, as a Brazilian myself, I can affirmate this is a fake, because in fact, the manual is just a translation of the American one.
Ok, so this one is supposed to be a direct sequel to Sonic & Tails/ Sonic Chaos (it's even called Sonic & Tails 2 in Japan!), to prove it, just know that it's said that after the failure of the Master Robots, Robotnik makes a follow-up line of robots, called "Boss Robots" (which are basically the bosses of this game).
Knowing that, we have... *a problem*! It's about Metal Sonic. This game actually follows the canon of Knuckles' Chaotix, in which the Japanese manual states that after Sonic CD, Robotnik was capable of recovering Metal Sonic's Main and Sub CPUs before Little Planet disappears, then he rebuilt Metal Sonic using it, so Metal Sonic Kai is made.
Ok, but why is it important? Simple (actually not simple), Sonic 4. The game states that Metal Sonic, who is defeated in Stardust Speedway Act 3, stays *EXACTLY* there, did not move, did not get out, until *modern/ adventure era* eggman rescues it.
What's so confusing about it? Because if Metal Sonic was only rescued when Sonic and Eggman were modern, that means Metal has passed * 4 years* alone in Little Planet !(yep, classic sonic was 11 years old and adventure/modern era sonic is 15 years old) So, it basically de-confirms all the classic sonic games that have Metal Sonic! (I mean, Knuckles' Chaotix, Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic Triple Trouble... However, Sonic the Fighters doesn't actually have metal sonic. In the intro of the game, you can see written in Rocket Metal Sonic "Mecha Sonic Model no. 29", so it isn't in fact Metal Sonic! Should it be canon? No, it has 8 emeralds and Death Egg mk. 2 contradicts Sonic 4; and even Sonic R, that has Metal Sonic, is confirmed to be canon for some odd reason)
So, basically, Sonic Triple Trouble, Sonic Drift 2 and Knuckles' Chaotix were all retconned from continuity because of Sonic 4... but they're confirmed to be canon on Sonic Mania timeline!
(If Sonic Mania was canon in the main timeline, it would fix Sonic 4 because Metal Sonic ends up stuck on little planet, what would make all the other classic metal sonic games canon before sonic mania... But Forces retconned it to "another dimension"... I mean, American Sonic Forces, the Japanese version just says it's "a Sonic from another world" so it isn't necessarily from another dimension, but the interpretation is really vague)
*-Sonic Blast/ G Sonic*
The American Story is simple: Sonic and Knuckles discover Robotnik's Silver Castle and do some property damages to infuriate Robotnik and his (awful) plan. That's it.
The Japanese Story is... like: Sonic was taking a nap when Robotnik tries to sh00t him, but he misses the shot and hits a Chaos Emerald (I heard somewhere there's a rumor that says it was actually Knuckles, who was nearby, that threw an emerald right in front of sonic, so the shot would actually hit the emerald, saving his life), Eggman gets surprised, but satisfied with the result, so he promises... he *will* build a fortress, called Silver Castle Zone. Knuckles, who was nearby, joined Sonic to stop Eggman. (Wait! That means Eggman was building Silver Castle Zone throughout the whole game? So, Sonic and Knuckles should actually be really slow)
It should be canon anywhere after Sonic 3 & Knuckles
@@kawafernandes7025 Classic Sonic was 18 in Sonic 1 and retconned to be 16 for the rest of the series up until Heroes solidified him as 15.
@@cristianrojas9684 no classic was 11
9:50 I think I disagree, I always liked the idea of sonic being broken or having his true speed be a mystery.
I think it adds to his character because it shows that sonic cares about the environment and isn't willing to blast through it and rip the place apart to get the job done and when he does it's shown in a cool way.
And what I found really fascinating to me growing up, in interviews with programmers of the first game they even state that they always envisioned Sonic being faster than light, it was apart of the process of giving the character a name, but they couldn't find anything cool enough so they settled on Sonic.
I personally love that idea, and made sense to me that Sonic is trying to just make sure he doesn't ruin everything but still trying to be a decent guy.
@@thatgamerguy9680 exactly
Exactly! Though currently Sonic has enough speed to restore universes… and chaos emeralds… time and space… and-
@@arkhamknight620 Exactly and it's so crazy I love it!
@@arkhamknight620 At this point he's as fast as the Archie one: incalculable
Btw, the Official TailsTube just dropped some interesting lore on the islands, where the humans actually live, and the Chaos Emeralds.
And he was right!!!
ian flynn is final hope franchise
The themes of classic Sonic’s story come out clearest in Sonic CD. You’ve got the past with little-no technology, which is mostly peaceful but not perfect. You’ve got a good future and a bad future: the bad future where tyrants rule and scientific/industrial advancement harms nature, and a good future where nature and scientific/industrial work together in perfect harmony. Sonic is fighting for the good future where man and nature can exist together in peace, and Doctor Eggman is in his way
That’s all present in Sonic 1 but isn’t always clear. It comes through pretty well in Sonic 2, but it’s clearest in Sonic CD
Thank god there's someone else who digged into actual Classic Sonic lore!
Also you mentioned how Sonic wasn't flash fast, but funnily enough Lizuka and Sonic's creator both stated Sonic was beyond light speed and on par with Flash's speed.
I think that's really just to make the character sound cool. Nothing's ever reflected in the games.
@@Pariah6950 Oh? Have you already forgotten Sonic CD, the manual of Sonic 2, Generations, both versions of Sonic Colors, Sonic Lost world, Sonic Adventure scan, Sonic Shuffle, I can go on…
It's kind of ironic to use that excuse as no one can accurately represent actual light speed in any video game, yet many games have characters faster than light.
Again, I just think they want to make him seem cool. It's like the DBZ thing with power levels. The faster your super speed character is, the "better" they are. Obviously you can't do that in gameplay. But if that was the case in canon, then most Sonic stories couldn't exist. If he could move at light speed, he could get from anywhere to anywhere instantly. But many times we've seen time constraints in the games that come down to the wire, showing that Sonic does take time to get from place to place. Meaning he can only go so fast. You can say anything you want about your character. But what you actually show is what determines the facts.
@@Pariah6950 And that's why plot induced stupidity and outliers are a thing.
Example of him taking time?
You do realize that Sonic himself holds back his speed so he doesn't end up damaging the environment or killing someone? He once did a Sonic boom in the CD opening, *when he was far above the land he was running on.*
Actually, Sonic's speed has been stated multiple times to be increasing with no defined limit, as early as freaking Sonic 2. Multiple JAPANESE manuals state that he surpassed time by sheer speed. Add that to the fact that he holds back because a): He doesn't seem to care about "going all out" and b): He cares about the things around him.
Making him cool isn't a good argument, you can make this for other characters too. I get why you are not very fond of OP Sonic, but even the classics have made Sonic stupidly op. I mean for god's sake they said in his JAPANESE profile that he has "unbeatable strength" (And in Tails' profile it's stated that Tails admires Sonic's strength), the only people at the time able to match him at that time was Knuckles or Metal Sonic.
Don't want to get into an argument. So I'm gonna leave this with this.
For examples of time constraints, the race with Metal Sonic, escaping the exploding Death Egg in 2, catching Eggman with the Master Emerald at the end of 3K, and if you want to count some later things, needing to escape Prison Island before it blows up, needing to reach the Eclipse Cannon barrel before it fires, and Heroes with the 3 day time limit, as well as many other things.
I'm sure you can come up with explanations for all these things. But the fact of the matter is, these things are put into the stories to add tension. They create dire situations that are meant to push characters to their limits. But there is no added drama to these scenarios if Sonic could just irrelevantize these threats if he wanted to. These things are written under the assumption they create complications for Sonic, meaning he has to be slow enough for them to actually matter.
As I said in the video, I don't take everything said in the Japanese sources as 100% true. They were clearly not thinking that hard about this stuff. If they do state that he can go that fast, then it contradicts with how the games themselves are written. There are many contradictions like this all over the series. The way I see it, that essentially means it's up to us to choose what we want to believe. What we see, or what we're told. I go with what I see in the games themselves.
Man, as a diehard of Sonic lore, this video was amazing. You covered so much about the Classic lore that people usually don't talk about or don't even know, and that makes me so happy! You even convinced me to consider CD taking place after 3&K, when I previously considered it to be right after 1. Well done! Also, you got a great sense of humor; definitely got me laughing throughout the video, so props to that hahaha.
Overall, you're incredibly educated on this stuff, and I'm mad impressed. Lookin' forward to more work from you!
Fun Fact - The game gear games are canon? Sonic 1 & 2 8-bit, and Sonic Chaos, all take place on South Island! Sonic 2’s prologue is supposed to be the adventures that Sonic and Tails have before the game. They go back to South Island when tails gets kidnapped.
@@razorionxvii638 Sonic 1 (8-bits) can happen right after (or before) the 16-bits counterpart.
Its sequel are complicated... First, Sonic 2 (8-bits), then Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble and Blast:
-The Sonic 2 manuals (American and Japanese) say *almost* the same informations, however there's a difference:
In the American manual, it's said that after sonic's *first time defeating eggman on South Island* (of course, Sonic 1), he received a letter from tails (he didn't even get out of the island after the adventure, so he never visited Western Island, or maybe Sonic 2 and 3K happened... before Sonic 1? That's confusing!) saying he was kidnapped and that stuff, after that, Sonic chased Eggman and the game starts.
In the Japanese manual, it's said that after *some adventure in South Island* (not necessarily Sonic 1, but it could be), Sonic got in *some whimsical adventures* (it's said in plural, adventure*s* , so maybe, it could be both Sonic 2 and 3K), and when he finally returned to South Island, he received a letter from Tails, saying he was kidnapped and that stuff, after that, Sonic chased Eggman and the game starts.
Source: Sonic Retro / Sonic 2 (8-Bit) Manuals
Did you spot the difference? In the American canon, this is a prologue of sonic 2 (16-bits), however in the Japanese canon, it could even be after Sonic 3 & Knuckles! (Even though it doesn't explain why sonic needs 6 emeralds instead of 7... maybe that's because robotnik has captured the seventh, as said in sonic chaos Japanese manual, but I'll get there).
After Sonic Adventure, the Japanese canon is most considered so... yes, the timeline's saved now!
*-Sonic Chaos/Sonic & Tails*
Did you know Sonic Chaos has 3 different stories? Yep! The Game Gear US Manual, the Game Gear JP Manual and the Master System EU manual!
Even though they're basically the same, there are some differences:
In the US manual, all what's said is that Robotnik got the red emerald, *making the others fly to a parallel universe...* (what?) causing the island to start sinking, so Sonic and Tails run after Robotnik.
In the EU manual, it's said that... *South Island is peaceful for a whole year!* (Yep!) Sonic & Tails are making Speedruns (literally) until one of the 6 emeralds (there aren't 7... ok?) is missing from the North Cave. The island starts sinking, so everybody start looking for that (d4mn fourth) chaos emerald, until a blue flicky finds out that it's Robotnik! *Sonic and Tails start running after him and the game starts*.
In the JP manual, *a rumor about eggman stealing one of the emeralds* is spread (no "6 emeralds-only" things are said, so it should be 7, basically confirming that's the probably canon story), so Sonic and Tails (who weren't at south island from the start) travel to South Island in Chaos! (that's not a title joke because the game's officially called Sonic & Tails in japan) They find Eggman with one of the emeralds while the other ones are scattering around (no parallel universe this time) , *they start chasing Eggman and the game starts.*
After reading the 3 manuals, it's obvious that the Japanese one is canon (so maybe, canonically, the name of the game should be Sonic & Tails instead of Sonic Chaos) because there is no "parallel dimension" or "only 6 emeralds" and also the game starts right after the manual.
Also, it's a direct sequel to Sonic 2 (8-bits)! That's true btw, if you wanna confirm that, just know that the 6 first bosses (according the tails' letter) were built just with one purpose: *destroy Sonic* and that's it. They're actually called "Master Robots". The "Master Robots" line is also present in Sonic Chaos (Yep, all the Sonic Chaos bosses are also Master Robots), like Robotnik immediately continued this line after Sonic 2 (8-bits), proving this is a direct sequel
*-Sonic Triple Trouble/ Sonic & Tails 2*
Both manuals (American and Japanese) say almost the same thing.
The major differences are that the after the "accidental explosion that scattered five of the emerald across the island", the Japanese manual describes a prologue of the intro of the game, while the American one just skips the character profiles. In that, it's detailed about *Metal Sonic* (this will be a problem to us) in the Japanese manual, while the American one just lets it to be a surprise for the end of the game.
Just a fun fact: in the Brazilian manual, it's *supposed to be* said that Knuckles was actually on vacation of guarding the Master Emerald and the his brother, Crucules, was keeping it, but he was tricked by Eggman. However, as a Brazilian myself, I can affirmate this is a fake, because in fact, the manual is just a translation of the American one.
Ok, so this one is supposed to be a direct sequel to Sonic & Tails/ Sonic Chaos (it's even called Sonic & Tails 2 in Japan!), to prove it, just know that it's said that after the failure of the Master Robots, Robotnik makes a follow-up line of robots, called "Boss Robots" (which are basically the bosses of this game).
Knowing that, we have... *a problem*! It's about Metal Sonic. This game actually follows the canon of Knuckles' Chaotix, in which the Japanese manual states that after Sonic CD, Robotnik was capable of recovering Metal Sonic's Main and Sub CPUs before Little Planet disappears, then he rebuilt Metal Sonic using it, so Metal Sonic Kai is made.
Ok, but why is it important? Simple (actually not simple), Sonic 4. The game states that Metal Sonic, who is defeated in Stardust Speedway Act 3, stays *EXACTLY* there, did not move, did not get out, until *modern/ adventure era* eggman rescues it.
What's so confusing about it? Because if Metal Sonic was only rescued when Sonic and Eggman were modern, that means Metal has passed * 4 years* alone in Little Planet !(yep, classic sonic was 11 years old and adventure/modern era sonic is 15 years old) So, it basically de-confirms all the classic sonic games that have Metal Sonic! (I mean, Knuckles' Chaotix, Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic Triple Trouble... However, Sonic the Fighters doesn't actually have metal sonic. In the intro of the game, you can see written in Rocket Metal Sonic "Mecha Sonic Model no. 29", so it isn't in fact Metal Sonic! Should it be canon? No, it has 8 emeralds and Death Egg mk. 2 contradicts Sonic 4; and even Sonic R, that has Metal Sonic, is confirmed to be canon for some odd reason)
So, basically, Sonic Triple Trouble, Sonic Drift 2 and Knuckles' Chaotix were all retconned from continuity because of Sonic 4... but they're confirmed to be canon on Sonic Mania timeline!
(If Sonic Mania was canon in the main timeline, it would fix Sonic 4 because Metal Sonic ends up stuck on little planet, what would make all the other classic metal sonic games canon before sonic mania... But Forces retconned it to "another dimension"... I mean, American Sonic Forces, the Japanese version just says it's "a Sonic from another world" so it isn't necessarily from another dimension, but the interpretation is really vague)
*-Sonic Blast/ G Sonic*
The American Story is simple: Sonic and Knuckles discover Robotnik's Silver Castle and do some property damages to infuriate Robotnik and his (awful) plan. That's it.
The Japanese Story is... like: Sonic was taking a nap when Robotnik tries to sh00t him, but he misses the shot and hits a Chaos Emerald (I heard somewhere there's a rumor that says it was actually Knuckles, who was nearby, that threw an emerald right in front of sonic, so the shot would actually hit the emerald, saving his life), Eggman gets surprised, but satisfied with the result, so he promises... he *will* build a fortress, called Silver Castle Zone. Knuckles, who was nearby, joined Sonic to stop Eggman. (Wait! That means Eggman was building Silver Castle Zone throughout the whole game? So, Sonic and Knuckles should actually be really slow)
It should be canon anywhere after Sonic 3 & Knuckles
@@kawafernandes7025 So, to summarize, Sonic 1, 2(8-bit), & Chaos are prequels to Sonic 2 (16-bit), and TT, Sonic Blast, etc are after S3&K, Since they feature Knuckles, and TT has Metal Sonic
@@razorionxvii638 Yeah, that's mostly it.
why is sonic cd after sonic 1 in origins then
You're spot on with sonic looking serious in the first game.
"What does the Death Egg do, exactly" is kind of a funny question because it's been used, like... four or five times in the games at minimum, and a boatload in the comics, and they so very rarely bother to give it a purpose. Normally it gets destroyed before it even makes it out of atmo, because they generally work off the assumption that Eggman getting it fully-online is basically Game Over, but never really explain _why._
Nack, Bean and Bark being a trio mostly originates from the Archie comics, where they were put into a group before most of the fandom really knew about them being planned as a team for Heroes. _Maybe_ Archie knew about that plan, but it's unlikely, considering that Archie had to fight SEGA to even get access to the stories of games _after release_ (Ever wondered why Archie stopped doing full-adaptations of new games after SA1, and just made prequel/interquel advert-stories that often weren't even canon to the comics' main plot? Because SEGA refused to give them a copy of SA1, and they had to import a Japanese copy of the game and _guess what the cutscenes were saying_ in order to adapt it), them having insider-knowledge on SEGA's scrapped plans is highly improbable.
But yeah, in the comics, Ian Flynn introduced Bean and Bark in his first issue. They were evil, because he needed to make Fiona Fox look shady so her spending the rest of her existence drooling over Canon Coldsteel didn't look completely out-of-left-field, and basically nothing like the thin scraps of character they got in Fighters. Bean was basically "How not to write Deadpool" and Bark's quietness was upgraded to being fully mute and his caring nature was heavily downplayed- He was always the nicest of the three, but he never seemed to care much about the actions of his perpetually, gleefully murderous compatriots, nor that Nack's primary target was another of his and Bean's friends.
It's kinda funny comparing the treatment Bean and Bark got versus the effort Ian would later put into adapting Honey's Fighting Vipers portrayal. Growth, for certain.
I always imagined the death egg would kinda work like the death star
The only time we've ever seen the Death Egg actually activate (as far as I know) was in Lava Reef act 2, where one flash from it's eyes was enough to turn everything back from cooled to full heat lava
In Lego Dimensions it's shown the Death Egg can fire Death Star-styled lasers from it's eyes (although not to the same extent as the ARK)
Could just be a massive robot factory.
“Canon Coldsteel” 💀💀💀💀
I imagine that Eggman followed Sonic to Westside Island to look for the Chaos Emeralds because he knew Sonic had a track record for successfully finding them.
Someone has probably already mentioned it, but from what I've heard the "Christmas island" Sonic comes from is based on the real island of Kiritimati which goes by that name sometimes. America conducted nuclear experiments there, so that's why they had mutant animals living there.
This man made a 1 hour+ video about sonic lore that most people dont know, with more effort and better motives than other channels.
And doesn't have 200 subs, this guy need at least a couple thousand,.
Let's not forget that Sonic's creator officially declared that sonic is able to go faster than the speed of light and can go head to head with the flash.
One of his names for his conception was supposed to be a play on the word for the speed of light but they chose Sonic because it was a better (more marketable) name
@@Eman02kG "The more you know..."
Oh and his many ftl-immeasurable speed feats.
@@undeadbatman9762 the only feat I can think of for strictly classic Sonic is Sonic CD running up the chain in the cutscene and also him time traveling. Time space seems to be so warped that despite the small size of the planet it seems much bigger when you’re on it. There is definitely a spacial discrepancy whether they intended it or not
Sauce?
This is actually an interesting story. Sure, there are some confusing pieces, but it's still awesome. I wish it could've been this way, but oh well.
I really love the classic simple story. It's really wholesome and easy to love.
Sonic's speed has been officially stated to be limitless, meaning he doesn't have an actual top speed, he's only as fast as he needs to be, while we may not had seen gameplay of Sonic reaching light speed, there has been several cutscenes and implications that Sonic can in fact reach the speed of light, and it ain't even that broken. Mach 1 was his casual speed at the time, but he can definitely go much faster if needed.
If Sonic's top speed really was mach 1, that wouldn't make him the "fastest thing alive" now would it?
I dunno about “limitless” but at this point, his feats alone confirm so. His speed has been stated multiple times to be increasing, with no defined limit. He has escaped infinite voids of nothingness, restored time and space on a conceptual level and cleared an infinite astral plane.
Hey where did you get this information from?
That would still make him the fastest thing alive in-universe, though...
the title of the fastest thing alive is just to make him sound cool
@@frost_spriteyes,we shouldn't always use stuff from IRL to determine the speed of a character through feats of speed from real life,just because he escapes a void of nothingness and stuff doesn't make him be able to go at light speed,the sonic series already breaks the laws of physics all the time so trying to use real life physics and feats to determine sonic's speed is kinda stupid and unnecessary
God this video owns, exactly the type of thing I was looking for when binging many articles on the SonicRetro wiki on jp manual info. It's just a good, cohesive thing to have out there when it feels like the original lorax vibe of Sonic has been twisted twice over from early localization and years of essentially soft reboots with most the 3D games.
Fun fact: Amy's superstition is actually something the IDW Comics talk about, with Amy actually using her Tarot Cards that made her find Sonic in Sonic CD
I like that Sonic isn't completely against technology and progress, he uses it and Tails himself is a bit of a scientist/mechanic. So that's nice.
I'd imagine Sonic would get tired, after all that speed you'd wear down eventually. Athletes are fast and fit, they get tired. So Sonic needing to fly places a little bit adds a bit of realism without making it hinder the gameplay.
I think there are humans too, in the classic games there are very human like cities in the backgrounds, all lit up being lived in. Also Robotnik seems a bit human to me.
I think that chaos emeralds have many "homes" which is why they disappear to new islands that the echidnas(or other tribes who stumbled upon the emeralds) used to worship the emeralds but Angel island is home to the master emerald so each time sonic loses he goes to search for them for its power and to keep them safe.
It is confirmed that multiple sets of emeralds existed. This isn’t a new concept as the comics already had a similar event where many sets of emeralds combined to form a single 7 chaos emerald set.
This video is amazing. I love the idea of the islands being connected in the past. I really wish they would have continued to make each game take place on a different island with different landscapes/characters. I honestly don't think that would ever get boring to me. Makes me feel inspired to make my own story for a new 2d style game. Also, I really liked your theory about the chaos realm. Everything about it made sense and would fit perfectly into the greater canon. Super good video, hope to hear more in the future!
This video is much appreciated. I rarely see anyone talk about the Japanese lore, so this was great.
Thanks. I wanted to make it precisely because people rarely talk about this stuff. Most people won't bother to hunt down manual translations, so I hope people can learn a bit more about the original Japanese lore through this.
@@Pariah6950 And it worked out. Sucks that everything isn't as unified as I thought it would be. I kind of figured that given how little Sonic Team seems to care about the spin-offs outside of collections, but still. Something like Chaotic has really interesting lore.
Sadly, the series has always been extremely messy and inconsistent. But there's totally something there if they did some cleaning up. I'd love to see more Classic stuff that goes back to this original version of Sonic and fleshes it out.
@@Pariah6950 That would be cool. They've already made Classic Sonic it's own entity, something I'm not a fan of at all, but that does open the door to fleshing this old lore out. I know they won't, but it doesn't hurt to dream.
@@captainhenson41 I don't mind the split exactly because it gives us a chance to go back to the original version of the series. A lot of this stuff is retconned as things goes on, so it never would get the chance to be explored otherwise. Now we can. And we still get to keep the newer version too. It's win/win if you ask me.
I think it's a pretty cool detail(lore wise) that whenever tails or someone else acknowledges his tails, he's either unomfortable or shrugs the mention off. Also I've seen some official art of him and he holds only one tail. I know it's probably hard to hold both in one hand but I did think it was odd enough to write here
Things mentioned in this video:
Sonic doesn't consider himself a hero, he's a free spirit who travels from area to area doing whatever he wants looking for his next adventure. It just happens that the things he want are also things that come off as heroic.
Sonic Earth doesn't have any large land masses, just a series of islands.
So, basically...
Sonic is One Piece.
Well Sonic CD’s first special stage’s background has the Sun Moon & the Earth in the background and you Can see many giant lands. Yes it takes place in a diffrent dimension I guess, but the idea that the planet has giant landmasses in the background makes me Think that’s the same case with Sonic’s World. And in the background in Sonic the Fighters when you fight Metal Sonic, landmasses exists on the planet in Sonic’s World.
chili dogs. Are not refereed to, but are used in the casino levels. U bounce on them from green, yellow to red to make the pop/vanish
In the comics, the rings and the emeralds are intrinsically linked, and utilize the same power, it's how Sir Charles/uncle Chuck harnesses their power with his little devices, and why the roboticizer is wrecked by too many rings. I know this is exclusively about In game lore, but it would also fit in nicely with the comics too!
38:57 About that whole tangent. I'll like to think that Sonic was an orphan back in Christmas Island and he gave himself his own name, wich then transformed into a habit of naming other people after their characteristics, he named all of the South Island little critters and gave Miles and Amy nicknames even tho they do have proper names. but Knuckles, beign the last of his kind and having no one to talk to, so he doesn't really have a name up until when he meets sonic and he starts calling him knuckles. I dunno just a little headcannon
I found this channel and one thing I like beyond the research are..the thumbnails. So many Sonic videos have thse flashy thumbnails that are nice, but the simple black and white and stark black stands out, are simple, and give an air of mystery. They'd make great desktop wallpapers.
1: You ignored how Sonic CD's manual states Sonic has to at least maintain the speed of light to travel through time, so Sonic is _at least_ light speed by CD (which would make more sense coming before 2).
2: ...oh my god I just realized why Sonic was put off by Amy. Not only is she younger than him, she believes in fortunetelling and other astrology stuff!
that clearly was stated in the CD manual to make sonic sound cool,but not literally
@@lauraikoko But was confirmed to be literal thanks to Sonic 4 episode Metal showing a heavily damaged, barely functional Metal Sonic fly from Little Planet to Earth in a matter of seconds. Keep in mind that very same Metal Sonic was slower than Sonic in CD to the point that he needs to use an overdrive move just to get past the speed Sonic can reach by simply running.
uhh,you do realize that that's basically just how the viewer sees it? it doesn't really follow the laws of physics,so it can still be speed of sound but just exaggerated
@@lauraikoko it's clearly NOT the speed of sound though, and that's stupid reasoning anyway.
I don't think Amy believing in Astrology stuff is as far-fetched as in our world. There are literally 7 magic stones that can turn someone into Super Saiyan, and not to mention that GOD casually appeared and caused havoc and killed thousands of people. If Sonic didn't like Amy at first, it definitely wasn't because of the fortune-telling.
I always liked the detail of sonic being able to literally turn into lightning when he’s super sonic in SA1. Never gets brought up sadly
me too!
All in all, this is an excellent watch. I've always been more of a fan of the Japanese classic Sonic canon than what Sega Of America came up with, and it certainly isn't every day where I come across any comprehensive videos detailing the lore that's just hiding in the Japanese manuals of these classic games. Great work!
27:21 Pointing out these constant retcons actually gave me an idea for a pretty cool theory. What if South Island, West Island, and Angel Island were all once apart of the same land mass but split apart after the echidna tribes tried to mis-use the emeralds power.
If this is true, then the island’s strange behavior seems to make sense. During the chaos rapture, the majority of the emeralds were scattered across south island allowing it to freely float in the ocean.
West Island was left with only one emerald and thus stayed precisely where it was during the chaos rapture.
Angel Island kept hold of the master emerald, and since it’s power is just as, if not greater, than the 7 emeralds made the island rise out of the ocean and into the open air.
Good theory. Sounds familiar. Great minds think alike.
@@Pariah6950 I watched up until that timestamp…
Now I feel dumb…
Only just found this - Great video! Love hearing all of this gone through and explained, I like a lot of your interpretations here.
Oh, okay, about Knack the Weasel, him living in the Special Zone, that ties in with the UK comics, where he's one of the Chaotix for a bit, and they all live and work there. It always surprises me how weird details in those comics still turn out to have been inspired by original game lore...
Apparently that "special zone" is subspace.
well clearly this dude loves dismissing the western interpretations of the characters
@@scr0ngle108 Sonic the Comic is an exception for me... In a podcast dedicated to it, I've heard them speak about how zealous the authors were in being faithful to the games. I don't think they had translations of the Japanese manuals, but they were in direct contact with Sega of Japan.
@@scr0ngle108 yeah that's what made me feel iffy
@@scr0ngle108 Well, duh, he's looking at the ORIGINAL interpretation, not the localization
Fantastic info. Love to know that Amy is an Astro girl. I agree with her being more of a city dweller than the others. Although not mentioned, I also see Shadow as the type to prefer human/city settings as well.
Very good and in-depth video, but I have to disagree about a few things. Ray is the only one of the trio that actually cries when he gets captured and the only one in the character select screen that doesn't have a determined expression but an earnest smile. This gives him an easygoing but sensitive vibe, so you can't say that he has no personality. As for Bean, there was a Japanese synopsis of Fighters in a magazine called Gamest where its stated that Sonic and friends are guarding the Chaos Emeralds, with only Fang being mentioned as having stole one, so I think Bean's definitely a good guy as opposed to a neutral one.
Also, the planet is never called "Earth" as in the actual real-world planet, but just ambiguously "the earth" or "the planet". Speaking of Sonic's world, there have been few occasions where Sonic was implied to live in a world separate from humans, such as the internal files that contain things like the Christmas Island info and Sonic X. Though, humans did live on the same planet as Sonic in the OVA, so maybe there was some confusion about it in Sega prior to the official explanation on TailsTube.
You mentioned the planet being mainly composed of water and islands. That kind of reminds me of One Piece haha.
I was thinking about saying more about Ray. But with so little to work with, I just wanted to move on past characters. That's why I showed him crying as he gets captured, to let people come to their own conclusions about his character.
That Fighters story I find questionable. Why would Sonic have Amy, a harmless little girl, protect a Chaos Emerald? And the fact that there's 8 of them? Another case of them not really caring that much about story for spinoffs, I think.
The Earth thing is weird. Like in SA2, originally in the script Maria does explicitly call the planet Earth. But they changed it to her just saying, "That planet". So at some point there must have been a misunderstanding even internally about what the planet is called. I suppose it doesn't matter much since the actual geography of the planet is totally different, (Depending on the game. Why does this have to be so frustrating!). So whether it was an alternate Earth or a planet with a different name, it makes little difference. Though if it isn't Earth, why are they so stubborn about just not giving it a name?
No. Sonic has been established as living on an Earth with talking animals and floating rings since the Genesis Era. Not only did Naka already refer to Sonic living on Earth but Ohshima noted on social media that there indeed supposed to be humans besides Eggman in the Genesis Era. Tails' bio in Sonic 2 mentions Christmas and a British sports car. The JP lore bible names Sonic as living on a made up Earth. And if you're going to list non-game sources the old manga which introduced Amy had Michael Jackson cameo and named Earth as where it happens.
@Pariah6950 No the JP script has the name Earth used. The Eng dub isn't relevant for figuring out lore.
You've just earned a subscriber. You make some awesome content, and it's interesting and caught my attention.
The inconsistency between the Chaos Emeralds being home to South Island or Westside Island is the result of development staff splits. Naoto Ohshima originally made it so each of the Classic games would take place on South island. There was no such thing as Westside Island, or even Angel Island.
The original finale was supposedly going to end with South Island being restored to full power and rising up into the sky like the lost city of Laputa, never to be seen again.
But after Sonic 1, some changes in staff occurred, likely due to SEGA's own stupidity in management. Naoto Ohshima stayed in Japan while Yuji Naka and Hirokazu Yasuhara went to SEGA of America to work on the sequel.
Apparently there are multiple sets of chaos emeralds with identical power, but different places and legends. This actually is similar to an event in the Archie comics, where MANY sets of chaos emeralds were combined into one set.
Source?
NO. Sonic CD comes after Sonic 1.
Why does Sonic have a plane?
To fly over environments he can't run across, like ocean. And Sonic cannot run fast underwater, or even swim.
(Might be even how he got to South Island idk)
To get to flying objects. There are quite a few flying islands in classic games, not a stretch to assume more of those exist.
Now knowing the full original Classic Sonic lore, I have a much greater appreciation of those games than I did before. And that is sayin a LOT considering I find them to be some of the absolute best examples of what a Sonic game can be already. Sonic’s original characterization and the way his abilities are just sorta part of who he is rather than being some special super power especially are things that I love a lot, and sorely miss in the more recent entries.
Believe it or not, the Death Egg DOESN'T have a giant laser. Eggman doesn't want to destroy the world, he wants to preserve it and change it to his liking.
The Death Egg is more like the Star Forge from Knights of the Old Republic. It's a mobile base of operations, as well as a robot factory, designed to manufacture an infinite fleet of Eggman's mechs, which he can use to either intimidate the world into submission, or construct a mechanized city that covers the entire planet.
In order to power such a thing, he needs Chaos Energy, so he searches for the Emeralds throughout the Classic series, in the hopes of converting them into infinitely-running batteries.
Didn't Eggman say that it was the ultimate planet destroying machine in Sonic Battle? The machine was also stated to be a machine capable of apocalyptic destruction.
@@arkhamknight620 I'm not sure if I'd include a modern game within the original canon.
Where you getting that from? Never heard that before.
@@Pariah6950 It's something people talk about in South Island Central, particularly the Great Lange. You wouldn't believe the stuff they've uncovered about Sonic's lore and inspirations.
Eggman, in his childish mindset, basically thinks he can fix the world by turning it into a glorified mechanical theme park that spans the entire planet. In order to establish it, though, he needs everyone's cooperation.
@@theholygamer969 Not familiar with South Island Central, but Lange knows what he's talking about. If you know anything else like that, leave a comment and I'll heart it so people can see. I want to spread any info I can.
Absolutely flabbergasted that the team themselves pretty much tied the continuity together in that first TailsTube vid exactly the same way you did here
In hindsight, it's actually kinda cool how some of your speculation turned out to basically be right, that being the Tails TH-cam thing where it was revealed that humans live on the bigger continents, generally separated from the animal creatures. Nice hypothesizing!
This really put classic sonic in a new light for me and further explains why i prefer it so much to the modern one, the localisation changes made to characters personalities and such I never knew about and it really is a shame, the original personality and stories of the characters were perfectly simplistic and its a shame they were changed so many times
This video was incredibly interesting
I totally agree with you on the eco-message embedded in the original games! When I turned 10, I received a Sega Master System II as a birthday gift, with an inbuilt 8-bit Sonic the Hedgehog game. After playing it a bit, I actually thought the same. That it's not just a fight between Sonic and Dr. Robotnik, but a fight for saving the natural environment from a techno-maniac. I also loved the South Island view, and I was imagining what would it be like to live on such an island :D Then I got to play an 8-bit "2", which was a bit confusing (and the view or map of the island was no more...), but I liked that Sonic was on a mission to save Tails, his closest friend. Back then I didn't hear about 16-bit (canon) versions BTW, so this is all I had. Only later I found out about Sonic 3D Blast, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and then other games or series... (though I didn't play any of the Sonic Adventure and later era games). So the world of Sonic in my mind kinda developed overtime. But it still feels nostalgic about the original lore :)
So in short: Funny blue rat gets funny gems and beats fat egg guy
The end
this video is amazing and made me very emotional at times like when u explained sonic 2 is abt tails going from a timid little kid to sonics best friend. this video made me so unbelievably happy because i love all these cute little characters and seeing them grow and evolve and live their own lives. this makes me really want to adapt this into an animation or comic. anyways pls keep up the amazing work :3
You an artist?
@@Pariah6950 yes i love drawing i draw sonic characters a decent amount too :>
@@ellievilla7048 You got a link to your stuff? It's possible someone might already be working on something like you described, and is looking for people to join the project.
About Sonic’s speed, the Japanese manual for Sonic CD says that he’s able to time travel by running at the speed of light and some of Eggman’s robots use laser beams which they can dodge
But if you don’t believe that is valid then it takes up until Adventure 1
The one thing that I do like about the USA story is that Robotnik and Sonic were friends once.
This head canon of yours is now my head canon, fits perfeclty and it makes 100% sense!
Good job!
Got goosebumps when you went on about your own explanation of everything at the end becasue it jsut makes so much sense
Seriously, this alalisys is amazing, i cant believe this high quality video is so obscure
(Also the way you speak and your voice is really nice
I like long videos like this during work so I treat it like a podcast. Learning about a childhood fave is a bonus (I agree the story isn't that consistent)
This was great. Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic have lore as well, but people have covered it.
8:54 nice, that ending card of sonic's story in SA1 make a lot ton of sence
I had to come back and rewatch this after Frontiers was like "aliens"
I do wonder though how 6 of the Chaos Emeralds wound up on South Island while the 7th was on West Side Island. Maybe it's just plate shifting, like maybe the South and West Side islands were once part of the Starfall Islands, but over time with the changes of the tectonic plates, the islands changed positions? Though it's also stated that after failing to really stop The End, the surviving Ancients took the Chaos Emeralds to the Master Emerald, which is where they evolved into Chao. So really, since all the Emeralds and the Master Emeralds were together when the echidnas lived on Angel Island, that means the Ancients built the shrine to the Emeralds as a very primitive version of the Chaos Engines they used to power their ships and Titans, and this all goes fine for thousands of years, and during this time the Ancients evolve into Chao and the echidnas come to rule very close by. Also during this time, the radiation created by the Master Emerald causes one of the Chao to mutate into a form resembling his ancestors, Chaos. Once shit goes down and Perfect Chaos forms, he scatters the Chaos Emeralds, which we know he does when he becomes Perfect because he does the same thing in Station Square. So he must have scattered them to islands nearby the still-grounded Angel Island, and hey what do you know Sonic 1, 2, and 3 all seem to take place within like a month of each other so geographically, their islands have to be pretty close.
I also wanted to say something regarding how classic Sonic is characterized following Generations. For some reason SEGA has decided to make him a cute dopey plush toy, and they'll still let him act cool sometimes like in Forces and the IDW comics that tackle the classic stuff, but IMO a perfect classic Sonic only looks cute, but acts cool. I feel like recently they've just looked at like the ledge animations and were like "more of that please!" and it just feels so generic when they do that, like it was at it's worst in Sonic Mania Adventures, where everything else was ON POINT, but Sonic was out of like one of those modern Mickey Mouse shorts
Why do I see that the 3 islands across 3 Classic Sonic Games that were once the same island before they broke apart due to the tribe’s greed that lead to the larger land mass’ separation and their own near extinction? I wonder myself if the developers actually intended to REITERATE about the Chaos Emeralds being a part of the former 1 whole island?
I think the constantly saying that blank island is home to the chaos emeralds could be explained with there just being alot of chaos emeralds as the colors between games constantly change and also amount sometimes so there might just be a lot of them around
39:35
,,Than the real question becomes: What's Sonics real name?"
Considering how much Sonic was inspired by Super Mario, his full name is probably Sonic Sonic.
But in my headcanon it's Sonic Jefferson The Third from now on.👍
I love your ending theory about how the Chaos dimension is warping the reality of the human realm, thus explaining the surreal architecture, humanoid animals, the emeralds' history with the prehistoric super-continent, etc.
Works well with what I originally thought the classic games story was, where an evil scientist has found a planet with humanoid animals and uses his technology to industrialize it.
Listened to the whole video while going to sleep over the past few weeks. Kudos.
Also 10:09: OMG I thought those bumpers in Sonic 2's Casino Night Zone were chili dogs until I googled it just now. My inner child's mind is blown.
I’m an hour and 11 minutes into the video and I can’t believe we agree on every single idea. These are all the ideas I’ve thought of before having watched this video, because it just makes sense that this was the type of world that Sonic was originally supposed to be
This video is awesome
I’ve been dying to find a translation of Sonic 3 & CD’s manual storyline and really always loved the extra lore and attention to detail the Sonic 1 & 2 manuals had
Something else I love is the approach you take when addressing concepts within the Sonic world, that being the continuity and consistency
That’s something a lot of people look over, not just for sonic but plenty of other series as well
Can’t wait to check out the rest of these
Fuckin amazing dude
"His canonical name is not Robotnik, but rather Eggman."
Ah yes, and my favorite relatives of his: Dr. Gerald Eggman and Maria Eggman
Honestly though, great video! I will be binging all of these story videos
Wow, what an excellent video! Every Sonic fan should watch this to know the real story behind the classic games and the characters’ original personalities. Thank you for this masterpiece! My interest in Sonic the Hedgehog is mostly with the classic games, so I very much enjoyed this.
So, from what I'm understanding is Classic Sonic's true personality is less Bart Simpson and more Finn from Adventure Time.
No. Think of Kid Goku, Jotaro Kujo, Yusuke Urameshi.
I think it’s nice that sonic origins gives more context with these games through the new cutscenes
More like just ignores and retcons the things Sega doesn't like.
Here's hoping some of these bigger lore things show up in the cutscenes of Sonic Origins!
Here's a theory. South island was the only civilization who didn't exploit the emeralds for evil. Both the civilization on Westside Island and Angel Island got wiped out by Chaos. Think about it. The only ruinistic zone in Sonic 2 is AQUATIC Ruins. And since it halfway filled with water AND there's grass down there and there usually isn't much grass underwater, that's a possible explanation. Also we already know that the echidna tribe got killed by chaos too.
I know I brought up Sonic being faster than sound before, but there is literal on screen evidence of Super Sonic moving faster than light. As in the Advance games, you can see Super Sonic rocket off to places like Star Nebulas and Moons in seconds to minutes of cinematic timing. Those would require light speed or higher movement. And if you want to get even more into it, than in Sonic and the Secret Rings, Aylaya wa-Layla’s attacks are straight up called “beams of light”, which Darkspine Sonic has to evade
I think Sonic Team has no concept of Sonic's speed beyond "He's fast"
There numerous instances where Sonic is shown to travel super duper fast, and then that speed is not utilized in situations where it'd really come in handy
At this point I feel like Sonic Speed is only measured by convenience in a given scene
@@cletonaltenor6626 that’s just writing as a whole. Especially when it comes to interactive medium like video games. However, when we’re talking the narrative of the stories, we must take what has been shown as consistent to said stories
This guy deserves more subs this is an amazing look at the lore of the classic sonic games. Hope to see you more mainstream
Theory of mine is that all the islands used to be connected, by the power of Chaos these ancients lived in peace and Harmony as the Main Area where the Emeralds lay dormant is the Emerald Shrine(or Hidden Palace) on Angel Island. But some wanted the Emeralds for Power, Control, Chaos...
The Gods take noticed of this and Banished the people from below, creating the once huge peaceful island and breaking it into pieces, and causing the emeralds to scatter in the Special stage, a whole different dimension. But some of that Chaos Energy has been left behind causing them to be shaped into Rings, the Chaos(Holy) Rings being created from the Energy of the Master Emerald. The last Ancient Civilizations were the chao and the Edchinas( and the nocturnal clan i guess, but they were banished into the twilight cage sooo)
The Emeralds have been collected and restored back into their Dimension and kept safe, until the Edchina tribe became power hungry and was going to take the Master Emerald by Force, going into War with the Chao, angering The Ultimate God of Destruction Chaos, a mutated Neutral immortal Chao that used the Master Emerald to transform into a dragon-water creature, nearly wiping out the tribe and going on a rampage against the entire world which in turn causes Tikal to do the chant on the Master Emerald inside Chaos along with her...
The Emeralds have shown to mysteriously disappear from time to time, either to a different part of the Planet or travel into the Special Stage.
But That's honestly my theory... For now at least
I always wanted to know about little planet from Sonic CD. It made me curious every time about the lore of little planet because it’s so over looked and not many people talk about little planet. Like who lives there and what was the purpose of the zones like Metallic Madness before Eggman showed up.
Wasn't metallic madness created by Eggman?
Animals live up there to feed.
@@arkhamknight620 well I had read somewhere that metallic madness was originally supposed to be a factory but eggman turned into his base after discovering little planet. As for that I’d say it’s likely but some zones look like they’d be populated by people like Metallic Madness’s good future or stardust speedway’s good future to be specific.
I get confused because little planet is a giant enslaved grey metal ball but when you play the levels it's all colorful. Aslo how did amy get uo there.
I think the player sees the world through Sonic's eyes as he goes through multiple stages trying to set his friends free or so he sees it liberating them from eggman's grip😢
This was a bit strange for me at first because of how I was so used to the American localizations lol. Some stuff makes a ton more sense with the Japanese story. This is a very in depth analysis on the original lore. Great content!
What if the "Dragon Egg" was the egg that would hatch the "Dragon" (Death Egg Robot) we see in the phrophetic mural that depicts Super Sonic fighting against?
Regarding Fang, Bean, and Bark and their alliance in the comics, it's more of a lucky coincidence. Ian Flynn paired them up because he wanted to use Bean and Bark in the comics. It was around the 2010's when Shiro Maekawa revealed the trio were meant to be a team in Heroes, but were cut early in production.
A similar thing happened in Archie where Mighty and Ray were paired up together, and build a "Big bro, little bro" dynamic. I'm unaware how accurate that is to whatever information Ray has.
Honey is a cameo character, sort of, but the fact she has come around maybe it has to do with Fighting Vipers not having much life not at days.
i think the whole ''dragon egg'' thing was forshadowing chaos since perfect chaos is dragon like, its a mutated chao also and chao hatch from eggs, and we know the echidna tribe was wiped out by chaos
You are so underrated! This is actually quality content! Thank you for making this video.