Failure to Edit: The Big Issue with Legendary Writers!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 90

  • @OnlyTheBestFantasyNovels
    @OnlyTheBestFantasyNovels 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    You're right about them being products, and 3rd party editing is extremely crucial to that process. The quality of a book before and after editing can be night and day, and I don't think I need to tell you which is typically the better one. I didn't know Stephen King doesn't even remember writing Cujo, that's wild, lol.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@OnlyTheBestFantasyNovels oh yeah he went on a drug/ alcohol fueled binge and supposedly has no recollection of writing it

  • @Talking_Story
    @Talking_Story 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    well thought out my friend! Probably happens in many mediums where super success can have an effect on the work.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Talking_Story Thanks John! I’m sure it definitely is an issue in other mediums as well

  • @TheBeardedBookBeast
    @TheBeardedBookBeast 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Great video, my friend! I love your passion, honesty, and humor as always😁 You make great points and I think you are spot on and its very fair!

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@TheBeardedBookBeast thanks Man! I really appreciate you watching!

  • @cassieplatt1480
    @cassieplatt1480 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Agree! I know not your scene, but I would definitely add SJ Maas to the list of an author being so big that it seems like there's no editing anymore. "Bloated" for sure.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@cassieplatt1480 ohhh I haven’t read Maas but I do know those books get beefy

  • @KyloRenRadio
    @KyloRenRadio 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I read the original version of The Stand in paperback, and remember it as a long, but propulsive read. If you find a copy floating out there in the interwebs, check it out!

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  8 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@KyloRenRadio I have a mmpb edition of the original stand!

  • @JonTanOsb
    @JonTanOsb 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I used to love, and collect, the Spenser: For Hire books, but when Robert B. Parker bragged he never edited anymore, it really started to show. My breaking point was when a character had blood type T. The error kept repeating and I cringed each time. Even before the internet, it wasn't difficult to research blood types. I was done with him.
    Jon in rural BC, Canada

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Thanks Jon! I can def see how that could be upsetting. I havent here of that author but everyone should embrace their work getting edited for the same reasons you listed.

  • @chucklitka2503
    @chucklitka2503 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Books are products, but writing is an art, and writers artist. The artist has the right to create their art just as they want it, and the viewer/reader has the right to like it or not. Moreover, most artists need to change and grow to keep their art fresh, often leaving people who want the same thing over and over again behind. If that is the price they are willing to pay, good for them.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      @@chucklitka2503 I agree and yet I also want to add that popular authors leaving the fans who made their series behind is a bit of a problem. If they want to pivot mid series then that feels like a bait and switch. It rarely works out in the authors favor. If they want to pivot while starting new series/sub series. I’m more ok with that

    • @evastrange
      @evastrange 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Stormlight Archive isn't art, it's entertainment. We're talking about badly done entertainment, not some disruptive piece of daring vision that forces the reader out of the shell of their limiting belief about What Great Art Is Allowed To Do. 🙄

    • @AlanisOcasio123
      @AlanisOcasio123 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@evastrangewho are you to judge whether these books should be viewed as only entertainment and not an expression of artistic expression. Same with movies and music. It may not be up to your philosophical or artistic nature but that extremely subjective. I’m not a fan of Sanderson but some people are way out of line and stuck up when it comes to these topics.

    • @evastrange
      @evastrange 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AlanisOcasio123 Well, then why don't you go and practice what you preach: take it seriously as a piece of art and critique it as such? Go ahead. I'll be waiting, because that'll take us right back here.

  • @Iza56
    @Iza56 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I there's a poll I can vote to cut out that infamous scene from IT so it can never be seen or read again, let me know. It's time to take an action and remove it.

  • @esmayrosalyne
    @esmayrosalyne 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Very well said, Andrew! I personally didn't feel the same as you about how RotE progressed, but I think you raise some fair critiques. Also very nervous to see how Sanderson is going to (d)evolve over time...
    And love to see the shoutout to Zammar's video. You should read his duology, EXCEPTIONAL storytelling hehehehe

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@esmayrosalyne I have signed copies I personally bought off Zammar!!! I’m so excited to read his books

    • @esmayrosalyne
      @esmayrosalyne 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AndrewsWizardlyReads OH YESSSS love that for you!!

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ it’s gonna be awesome!

  • @kavan30013
    @kavan30013 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Stephen Kings 11/22/63 is a great example of a need for editing. The middle section where the narrator is tracking Oswald is absolutely harrowing. King follows that up with some truly fringe worthy lets put on a play hijinks, and lest we not does it again, only to wrap things up with a luxurious ending.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  8 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kavan30013 the middle of 11/22/63 definitely could have trimmed so fat to keep the pacing more engaging

  • @The_Reformed_Reader
    @The_Reformed_Reader 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Love the videos and your honesty, my friend! Your candor and sincerity are what sets your channel apart! Keep 'em coming!

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@The_Reformed_Reader Thank you so much! I appreciate it

  • @stigsmcqueen3178
    @stigsmcqueen3178 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is a tough question because different authors have different philosophies regarding what they think the role of their editor should be, and their philosophies change and evolve over the course of their careers. Same thing with musical artists and the role of the producer while they're recording an album. I could easily see some authors with 20+ years of experience in writing and publishing novels thinking that over time, they should be needing less and less intervention from their editors - and if they can't "police themselves" successfully at that point, maybe they should retire.
    The other thing that may be worth bringing up here is book prices, and I'd like to make another analogy to musicians. I do know that over the years, concert prices keep going up and up with the musicians having no control over this. As a result, some headlining acts that used to do a 60 minute set now want to do an 80-90 minute set to help the fans feel that they got their money's worth. If book authors feel the same way about rising book prices, then I wouldn't be surprised.
    But the bottom line is that with different authors having different relative strengths and weaknesses, and also differing perceptions on how much progress they've made in addressing their weaknesses, I can see where it would be tough to get through to an author who's a veteran and thinks they know what they're doing. The best the fans can do is to be honest about what they think about every book they read. If the author gets the message and improves the next time out, that's good. If instead they retire, then that's fine, too. If they continue to spin their wheels in the mud, then as a reader it's time to find another author. I think it's as simple as that.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  8 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@stigsmcqueen3178 beautifully said! It’s as simple as that

  • @heatherauton655
    @heatherauton655 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    What to read a tiny tiny exercise in tight editing, try the minuscule Galatea by Madeline Miller.
    A fabulous exercise of just how tight a story can be yet embed itself in your brain.
    Highly recommend ❤

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@heatherauton655 ohhhhh you have me intrigued
      Edit: It sounds amazing added to my Amazon wishlist. Thanks for the recommendation

  • @nancywolf1467
    @nancywolf1467 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great video.
    RotE … I’ve only read 6 & have loved them!! I look forward to seeing if I agree.
    King, probably. I’m loathe to admit that because I love his writing.
    Bloat & experimentation.
    Funny, I love King’s writing so sometimes his bloat doesn’t bug me in fact sometimes I want more. Other times .. the cringe.
    Sanderson 🤷🏼‍♀️

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@nancywolf1467 lmao 🤣 all fair! Like I said I love the first 9 RoTE. I hear you on king I really do

    • @nancywolf1467
      @nancywolf1467 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ you made me think about it. Writing is a talent similar to painting, you can take constructive criticism/editing and/or create from the heart … it’s prolly a sliding scale.
      When it’s not your meal ticket I bet it’s easier to ignore criticism? Self publishing really gave authors their full voice also.
      I was wondering if you’ve seen a book you felt was … over edited? Basically the reverse? I feel this is seen more in TV where the studio can ruin a book to screen ….
      You’ve instigated many questions…. Like books that are negatively or positively impacted by narration… another talent.
      I’m SLOWLY coming out of my reading slump … sooo slowly.

  • @EstoNoEsUnSpoiler
    @EstoNoEsUnSpoiler 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Ah, I thought you would say Rowling. The last two Cormoran Strike novels are over 1,000 pages each. They are lively and readable, but yes, 1,000 pages for a mystery is a bit too much.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@EstoNoEsUnSpoiler jk Rowling? I haven’t read anything from her since HP concluded if I’m honest I didn’t know she was still publishing after casual vacancy

  • @christhewritingjester3164
    @christhewritingjester3164 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I've only read the Farseere Trilogy so far for Hobb, I haven't read any King (but the fact that he has so many hits and misses among ardent fans says a lot), and I'll be getting to Wind and Truth in a few days.
    I am dreading it a bit based on feedback I've seen. I'll finish it, but I hope I have a better time than others have.
    I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head that needs to be told no.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  8 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@christhewritingjester3164 let’s hope
      You enjoy WaT!

  • @kittyshiv
    @kittyshiv 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I got to 45% of wind and truth and had to DNF :/ I kept zoning out, really did not feel like the others at all and really next to nothing was happening? oh well lol. thanks for vid

  • @momo_genX
    @momo_genX 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Using cringe in fiction is a useful tool and one that I love. I have a "that scene" moment in a short story that's big time cringe, and stuff like that is why I need an editor. As a frustrated and impatient reader, I can't stand bloat. I am still trying to figure out what makes readers slog through bloat, I suspect now that they are being led along by prose beauty. I respect readers. I'd rather give them a very short and potent and enjoyable book that leads them to want to reread before I would sell them a book every year or two with bloat. We will see what people think, as my career is in its infancy, but I doubt I'll ever write a book that's more than 150,000 words.

  • @CD287-
    @CD287- 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The 3 authors i've tapped out of 😂 I guess there was a pattern.
    Does WaT and WoK feel like the same author? I feel like Sanderson has really changed his style over the years.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@CD287- I don’t think they feel like the same author at all

  • @kennymocivnik6408
    @kennymocivnik6408 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I enjoyed reading Holly.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kennymocivnik6408 I’m still planning to read it! I’m encouraged to hear that you enjoyed it

  • @Shellesspace
    @Shellesspace 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    👏🏻 Well said. I was SO disappointed by WaT.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Shellesspace a lot of people are…personally and sadly I don’t see Sanderson course correcting

  • @alynam82
    @alynam82 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Im not a table-flipper! And I respectfully see your point (and agree in many ways) but I'll just say that Realm/Elderlings, The Stand and even IT were books that I regard so highly because of their length and time spent in their worlds and settings. (Yes, IT could definitely lose "the scene" and be better for it... ) Robin Hobb books I'd give grace to, because I think that's what their purpose was, to sit in the world and sort of live it yourself.
    BUT, I definitely read books where I agree that some cutting could apply. I just finished a 740 page (with tiny, condensed print) that took me weeks to complete. This book definitely could have omitted some of descriptions of food and decor and scenery that take up pages

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@alynam82 IT is an awesome book but there are certain flashback that while really well written and also entertaining aren’t particularly necessary to the story. One comes to mind is a flashback of one of the boys Dads. Telling his story. It was great but also 40ish pages and ultimately not needed. It was good but could have been cut and the quality and pacing of the book would have been improved. That’s more of what I mean by the inclusion of the stand and IT. I love those books but they do get a bit indulgent

    • @alynam82
      @alynam82 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @AndrewsWizardlyReads I just thought now; IT probably could have benefitted from a "The Stand" treatment, had it been released as a 700-800 page novel with a re-release of a full-length author's-cut.
      But I totally get your point. That content could have been cut from IT and absolutely not affect the novel in the slightest.

  • @a.r.witham9215
    @a.r.witham9215 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Preach, brother!!!

  • @Drivenby
    @Drivenby 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Is this a criticism of stormlight archive 5? If so I agree . That book DID NOT NEED to be so long . It feels like a vanity project.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Drivenby partially yes 😂

    • @Drivenby
      @Drivenby 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ yeah just reached the point of the video where you comment on it lol . Sorry I comment before I watch … but yeah someone should have told him Brandon WTF??? Does this book really need to be 25% longer than the Bible that is known as The Way of Kings????!

  • @EricMcLuen
    @EricMcLuen 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Only King I have read was the unabridged Stand and a friend who is a fan said it was a mistake. It just kept going....
    I would add Tad Williams to the list. The side quests just get repetitive especially in Otherlands that I don't think Jimmy even finished. And an editor after reading the endings of MST and Otherlands should have said 'really?'

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@EricMcLuen yeah I LOVE THE first Otherland book but it’s sequels…are messy

  • @brandon5080
    @brandon5080 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I used to love bigger books when I was younger, but I'm suspicious of them now. I've read so many books that were four hundred pages recently that should have been two hundred. And your friend is right about Holly. It didn't need to be written.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@brandon5080 Sigh I like Holly as a character but from what I hear she has overstayed her welcome and King won’t let go.

    • @brandon5080
      @brandon5080 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AndrewsWizardlyReads I think she was a good addition to The Outsider, but I think she works best as a throughline character rather than a lead similar to how Clive Barker uses Harry D'Amour.

  • @thatsci-firogue
    @thatsci-firogue 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I'm largely fine with it in the case of Hobb because I'm invested in those characters and the overarching plotlines which I can't say is the cast (for the most part) for me with Sanderson.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@thatsci-firogue if the story speaks to you that’s ultimately all that matters :)

  • @PreacherReads
    @PreacherReads 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That scene lol

  • @technologistrevolution
    @technologistrevolution 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I came here to be annoyed thinking this would be yet another plot-oriented reader calling Hobb's character work "bloat" but it turns out it was an actually insightful criticism! I don't know if these are the exact cracks I'd identify but I strongly agree that RWC and the final trilogy were serious weakpoints.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@technologistrevolution when Hobb is writing character work I’ll read 700 pages of fitz cutting the grass and how it made him feel and LOVE IT

    • @iggydaking9117
      @iggydaking9117 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      My post isn't about Hobb, but there's a big difference between character development and scenes of characters just talking.

  • @annmoore321
    @annmoore321 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Yeah… Wind and Truth is a hot mess. Best of luck when you do start reading it again. Hopefully you like it better than I did.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@annmoore321 I’m honestly unsure when I will resume. Eventually yes but not soon I don’t think

  • @dougsundseth6904
    @dougsundseth6904 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I can't really speak to the authors you mention. None of those authors' writing ever really hit for me, so I don't have your experience and I can't separate my general opinion
    I will mention late-period Heinlein for a similar problem. I think I've read every book Heinlein ever wrote, and his mid-period stuff is among the best writing I've ever read. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress might be my favorite book of all time. But his last few books (Friday, Job: A Comedy of Justice, To Sail Beyond the Sunset, and The Number of the Beast, particularly), were bloated and incoherent. They had bits that were still very good, but as novels, they were mostly failures.
    "Too big to edit" is a known problem, and it's significant.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@dougsundseth6904 adding the moon is a harsh mistress to the TBR!

  • @ZOMGfantasy
    @ZOMGfantasy 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    lmaooo I'm so conflicted with all this Hobb hate. But thank you kindly for shouting out my silly WaT critique! 😁

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@ZOMGfantasy I wouldn’t call it Hobb hate it’s criticism at best 😂

  • @wbbartlett
    @wbbartlett 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    If you can't tell a complete story in under 250 pages then you aren't a very good at your craft (or are just choosing to milk your fan base). These 9 book, 1000 page each 'sagas' are the equivalent of literary soap operas - low brow fare for the masses.

    • @civoreb
      @civoreb 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I dont know about this being true always. I read 11/22/63 and IT which are 1000 pages each and I read them each in a week. I have struggled with some books that are 300-400 pages that took me a month plus to finish. I think it depends on the person.

  • @Jonpat
    @Jonpat 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Once again I am convinced that Robin Hobb is NOT for me. I'm completely done with Sanderson and once I finish the Dark Tower I'm probably done with King too.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Jonpat That’s super fair! Read what makes you happy

  • @Luckathefranglais
    @Luckathefranglais 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Andrew, do you know Patricia highsmith I like her on one special book.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Luckathefranglais I do not!

    • @Luckathefranglais
      @Luckathefranglais 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @AndrewsWizardlyReads she wrote mr ripley an amazing thriller book I recommend for you mate.

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ ohhh I do like a good thriller

  • @Luckathefranglais
    @Luckathefranglais 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You should read dr sleep by mr stephen king

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Luckathefranglais I need to give it a second go. I bounced off of it the first time

    • @Luckathefranglais
      @Luckathefranglais 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @AndrewsWizardlyReads why a second go?

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Luckathefranglais I want to read it. I never finished it the first time

  • @robertbellisario396
    @robertbellisario396 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Andrew while I admit that some editing need to always be done,I don’t think that you should call it bloat. I take exception to the Stephen King The Stand uncut edition and It. The additional 400 pages did fill in gaps and fleshed out some story points. I have read them both. Unfortunately I am a King fan so this is just my own opinion. Of course your video was just your opinion as well.
    It is my absolute favorite King book. I have read it conservatively 7 times. I don’t find it bloated and having needing more editing. Thanks for the video and to listening to me!

    • @ilanahalupovich
      @ilanahalupovich 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Laurell Hamilton!

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@robertbellisario396 I’m also a king fan having read 40 of his books so far. If you like them then that’s great. I enjoy both the stand and IT I consider them amazing books. But I feel they could have been even better. That’s just my Opinion

    • @robertbellisario396
      @robertbellisario396 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Absolutely we can all share opinions! Much like myself I cannot stand The Tommyknockers which I had read he wrote at the height of his cocaine addiction I have never gotten passed Page 80 in the 5-6 times I started it. This I know is a very unpopular opinion as people love this book, I’d toss it but as a completist I have to have it lol

    • @AndrewsWizardlyReads
      @AndrewsWizardlyReads  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@robertbellisario396 lmao 🤣 I remember reading some of Tommyknockers YEARS ago. I got halfway and thought it was WEIRD and put it down. I do plan to read it again but it’s really low on my list of King to get to.