The Mass-Produced Metros of China | Rapid Transit Standardization
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2023
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Ever wondered why China was able to build so many metro systems in such a short period of time over the past couple of decades, but your country can't? Well, China has a secret weapon: standardization.
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.
I like this standardisation. I feel like we too often “hmm…” and “haaa” over what we should do. We get caught up in the decision making and never actually end up taking action. You can see it in transit, housing, bike lanes, etc. Have a set of standards for all of those things really makes a difference.
Mass production gets a bad rap for being low quality, but it really doesn’t have to be. If we know something works… Why spend so much time doing nothing?
I grew up in Shenzhen as a metro train lover, and I can assure you there will always be some downsides to a decision-making system.
For a most recent example, due to policy changes, Shenzhen's next phase of metro project has been trimmed greatly trying to get through review, even though some lines being cut off is, in fact, quite needed. And even then, the approved version of blueprint released this month has been cut down again.
That's probably the old debate of centralisation vs decentralisation all over again, but still, think you might want to know.
I'd also like to mention that the more humane part (e.g. the line maps, the visual guides, etc.) isn't what the Chinese are doing well with standardisation. Guangzhou and Shenzhen started by trying to copy Hong Kong MTR, then themselves getting copied by many other cities, eventually resulting in messy systems that are somewhat lousy. (Big kudos to Chongqing Metro, who developed their own visual symbology.)
Mass production has actually lead to much greater reliability generally!
Also in italy
@@accuratebalance5097 Well the standardization referred to in this video is more about train set themselves, so there aren't really many downsides here. Though I do agree that the standard for whether or how high-standard new metro lines are allowed is still a bit limited in China. As someone who grows up in Shanghai, Line 6/8 were way too crowded due to their Type-C trains, but budget was tight when they were built. Now Shanghai Metro learnt the lesson and always build new line with Type-A trains😂. They also had to build new lines designed to take some load off line 6/8. Luckily situation has been improving all these years, and new lines are usually more flexible.
@@RMTransit I’d love to see similar standards here in Canada. As you mentioned, we’ve got quite the mix - even within cities!
As a Chinese, I would like to say that not only the metro but also the train stations and airports in China are very similar. Although each government has made a "soft package" based on the local culture, a closer look at the structure shows that most of them are similar. But as a way of commuting, it is efficient and convenient.
What vpn did you use to get here haha
This is the best way to do it, wish we’d copy this for infrastructure in the US
@@whose-hu lol I live aborad.
有意思
Nonsense, I am Chinese. He's talking about panic. Every train station and airport is different. Combine it with the local culture.
I had the pleasure of working with Chinese suppliers on a recent light metro project and one thing thaqt's really worth emphasising is that they take their standardisation all the way through actual tunnelling itself. They have a national TBM company which has over 100 TBMs in the field at any one time in China, and they are all monitored centrally from their own HQ!! They are good tunnellers. As you say Reece, work pipeline is everything.
Meanwhile, Metrolinx is running around bleating with excitement over every minor movement of the two TBMs they have currently operating under Eglinton Ave in Toronto. And what do we suppose will happen to those TBMs when they're done digging? Instead of moving directly to the next project site, they're going to be disassembled, aren't they?
@@warren_r they will need to be refurbished so that would happen anyway. They might be used on Eglinton West I suppose.
I believe they also do more TBM reuse than other places too
@@_seola_ man, that must be a boring machine if the workers aren't interested of it!
China bought its tunnel boring machine (TBM) from abroad, it was expensive, when it was down it had to wait for service from abroad.
China then put a team of engineers and designers together to design its own TBM. China not only selling its own TBM it also manufacture for some of its competitors.
it's the economy of scale that set China apart from its competitors
PR China is actually the second country that built standardized metro. There was an another country (that doesn't exist anymore) who standardized so much of their subway construction. I'm talking here about the Soviet Union, that built metro systems in so many Soviet cities using actually only one type of train (Metrovagonmash 81-717), the broad Russian gauge and the 825V DC third rail electrification. If you will search videos from the metro systems in the former Soviet countries you will see metro systems that looks pretty much the same.
It's not a coincidence - both countries committed to rapid industrialization and the natural consequence of that is standardizing stuff so you can build an assembly line out of it. People get too caught up in the economic or political arguments, but it's true that if you build for greater efficiency, you'll get more stuff done, always.
The main difference between metros of China and Soviet Union is that Soviet Union has created an unique standard meanwhile China has created a modular standard, where there'are many different standardized solution to combine to obtain the best solution for every situation.
@@d1234as This reminds of the DUEWAG Type B LRV deployed on NRW cities, though each still came with small differences like type of motor (AC or DC), top speed (80 or 100 km/h) or amount axles (most had six with one articulation per car but some had eight and thus two articulations) but general dimensions and floor height are all standarised and allow for interoperability between each system (though as of today, only Cologne and Bonn take advantage of this).
@MarioFanGamer It is really interesting that Germany tried to do what the USSR and PRC has done! And this effort is pretty straightforward. But Germany doesn't have a national standard on how to build train systems. For example S-Bahn trains like in Berlin will never operate here in Frankfurt because of another electrification system (750V DC third rail vs 15kV AC overhead wires). At least Munich, Frankfurt and Stuttgart standardized their S-Bahn systems but there are still differences with other systems. Berlin (Großprofil-lines), Munich, Vienna and even Nürnberg (through the U-Bahn there is more light-rail than heavy rail, despite third rail electrification) uses the same standardized metro cars. But German systems are still different from city to city, there's no national building standards of transit system in Germany just like in the former Soviet Union or the People's Republic of (Mainland) China.
@@sobu_hasy Too much history, and less pressure to standardize than with standard rail - notice that one has a lot of standardization in spite of the history! (Incidentally, the reason Germany's trains drive on the right, whereas many of our neighbors have trains driving on the left, is that when trains were new, Germans thought English engineers were too expensive, and the engineer who came up with the first larger systems here decided to do it that way. The others paid for English engineers, who had the trains drive left like at home. History.)
Also, another thing China is known for regarding metro construction is that they build metro stations before the surrounding areas are built out with roads, apartments, and commercial space, taking a "build it and they will come" attitude to their planning and construction.
like NYC did in the Queens 100 years ago
Makes sense in a way because it's alot easier to build a station when the area is empty vs. having to fit a station onto existing buildings/infrastructure.
Hawaii seems to be doing that, since they're building from mostly empty East Kapolei to the Airport and on to Ala Moana.
Because China is urbanizing fast. People are moving from villages to cities.
@@arbs3ry the US is now 83% urban and 17% rural. Does that count?
Great video!
Unfortunately, standardization requires regulation. Regulation requires politics to not be influenced by the same private sector we are trying to regulate. There is a lot of incentive for the private sector to keep public transit non-standard and expensive.
yeah its just capitalism working as intended everywhere else, and especially in part with corruption in the states. gotta get those 'donations' 👀
So the elder bosses on transportation have been taken by the new generation as Floridaors welcome offices from SanJose due to the HS rail issue and reach an amazing end on the scheme effeciently which will be expanded for its prospecting convenience to meet the state's future with the revolution in its design enbeneficted a lot by the techleaders.I suppose more and more such inspiring examples will realize in the future as it could goes normal just like connecting the Internet every day now
Thats why China can also do it so easily, since anything gov say can be build ( in theory ofc, there are also a lot of failed projects).
@@JackieWelles So they could threat alot when it comes to a war
Exactly, as a Chinese living in Australia I can see why it takes years to build anything here, company politics and different gourds have their own schema, governments cannot say nan to anyone, so all wants to have a word in the system.
Some Chinese metro station even have enormous and crazy architecture no matter above ground or underground which is quite impressive
Yep some have more unique designs for sure!
Saw some videos before, can't remember what city, the station looks like an fancy big airport.
@@cinpeace353 Shenzhen new metro station? Walk East channel has videos of metro stations in other cities that r very impressive, Guangzhou, Wuhan, Chengdu
Standardization is beneficial.
As a citizen of Chengdu, I once heard that there are 55 lines planned in Chengdu (Actually, in 2019, there were 5 lines started at the same time), but unfortunately, 36 planned lines were cut off later. The good news is that now it is still the fastest city in China's subway construction.
At the beginning of the metro construction, the noise generated by the construction and the inconvenience of travel due to the occupation of the road, but until the construction is completed, you will feel the convenience of the metro, and everything is worth it.
Do a shot every time Reece says "standard" and "standardize" 😂. China's like "You get a metro! You get a metro! You get a metro! EVERYBODY GETS A METRO!" like Oprah did with giving everyone in her audience a car and I love it. Although I like when metro stations are unique like those on the Tashkent or Pyongyang Metro, transit infrastructure shouldn't be required to be that way. And for a place like China with huge cities, standardizing to meet demands of an enormous population is the effective solution. After all, the main purpose of a metro is to keep big amounts of people moving. Convenience is key.
People in Europe and North America just don't want to admit when China does something good, but I'm glad more people like you are giving China a chance. Their economic growth has been amazing and the way they were able to build the most extensive HSR network in the world with 26,000 miles/42,000 km (and it'll get bigger with 43K miles/70K km in 2035) in a matter of about two decades, is an incredible engineering feat.
I teach in train technology in Oslo (subway trains) I have been in China 45 times, and going back in June. The difference in just 17 years is amazing. I am especially impressed by the high speed rail system. Standardisation is the key to everything, also lower maintenance costs
Every time I go back to Beijing, there's a new line on the map. I used to memorise how I would get to places, but later on, I realised it was futile. Basically every other trip back, there's a new line built and a new route would save me some time. It's crazy how much it changed since I left.
chinese knew the importance of standardization when china was first unified from 7 seperated chinese kingdoms since 2200 yrs ago.
the first thing emperor qin did was to standardize currencies, all sorts weights & measurements, writing systems, political structure of all levels of govts, legal codes, population census, tax records, road width, carriage width, weapon systems.....
I lived in Shenzhen in 2017-2018 and I really love the metro there. I visited a few other cities like Shanghai, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, and Beijing, and those all have good and very similar metros in terms of basic design, but the Shenzhen metro had some extra details I really liked.
They were early adopters of allowing tap payments with your phone, and it even (sort of) connected with the HK metro (with certain limitations of course). The stations are clean and accessible, and mode transfers to bus or bike-share were also really easy upon exiting the station.
I’ve lived in Europe and various parts of the US, but using the Shenzhen metro system was by far the best transit experience I’ve had living anywhere.
Loved the Shenzhen metro too
Correct, I know Guangzhou well and been to Shenzhen too
Back here in Vietnam with motorbike and taxi.... Metro in Shenzhen feel more like a dream for me
Need more Chinese metro content. The standardisation is epic and definitely a huge positive.
This is a really great video. People often talk about how China is building so much so much faster than other countries, but rarely have I heard an effective explanation of why they can.
When infrastructure projects are privatized, companies who won the bid will purposely try to create a dependency to their services, so as to maximize their profits for the long term. There will also be many problems when planning between public and private zones/lands. China's one party system and centralize government eliminates many of these issues, since decisions are done quickly and effectively. Not to mention the enormous amount of man power China has, who are all very proud to be building/improving their country.
As a college student majoring in civil engineering, I would say that the reason why China's infrastructure is building so fast is because there is a large number of cheap labor. I'm going to be one of them: doing the hardest work for the lowest pay. Anywhere in China is very modern, rich and convenient. But the only thing that pains me is that the population is so competitive that we may take 1/5 of Americans' salaries and do 3 times the workload of Americans. In China, standard working hours and overtime systems have been difficult to implement. We are too tired, and the treatment of foreigners coming to China is much better than that of Chinese citizens.
@@user-gh5pv2cp8c except that is false and young people start rejecting to participate in civil engineering, but the construction still continues because the so called "cheap labours" are actually robots and AIs.
America used to do this. The PCC Streetcars were meant to be a standard to be used all around the country and licensed around the world. They still hold up today on modern streetcar lines.
The problem with Canada is that there are 38 million Canadians with 50 million different opinions.
We just want something that works. Ttc makes fumes come out of my ears each and every day
@@paniniman6524 That's a product of endless squabbling more than anything.
Because politicians don't use it
Canada and USA are destroyed by a few dirty lying politicians talking BS and ripping off tax payers.
@@AmelieZh speaking of which, the transit planners in china, yes from senior to junior civil servants, takes transit to work. I think not many civil servants in other countries does the same.
Standards are becoming much more common as they reduce costs, Alstom Metropolis driverless trains are becoming a standard in numerous countries due to expertise exporting, e.g. France gov is currently funding and building the Belgrade 40km metro, naturally RATP and Alstom (who are leading the project) are using their standard. Those Chinese standards are also being exported, M11 in Istanbul uses high speed CRRC trains seen in China. Paris metro is also a great example, all lines (even the rubber-tyred ones) use the same standard (750V DC third rail, 2.55m wide trains, same signaling GOA-2 system…), it allows Paris to replace almost all of its trains in one order by 2030. though this is gonna change with GPE.
Some forms of standardization are increasing, but I’d argue it’s not industry wide
I find standardisation sensible but boring. I live in London and miss the variety of old sub surface tube trains compared to the new more standardised ones.
İstanbul, even with the m11, has got to be one of the most unstandardized cities in terms of rolling stock. They have high speed Chinese metros, overhead wire and 3rd rail Rotem metros, Alstom automated light metros, Hyundai automated medium metros, long commuter rail trains by Hyundai, 3rd rail trams, high floor trams and low floor trams. The only standardized thing might be their funiculars
Please note that France will work on the trains, power, and signaling in Belgrade. Tunnels and stations will be done by China.
@Transit space - It’s worth specifying that in your hypothesis - or: “standards are becoming much more common as they reduce costs” - what’s specifically meant by this (in most industries) is
“standards reduce costs *for the manufacturer* of the product, without forcing a reduction in the product’s price-point, usually resulting in greater profits for the production plant’s owner,”
and what this translates to most accurately is
“once having established market dominance, manufacturers then remove choice, both to increase profit by shifting all the costs of customization onto the purchaser, and to prevent any smaller would-be competitors from gaining an industry foothold, by forcing competitors to adhere to standards where the market-dominant player has the benefit of manufacturing scale.”
I simply point this out because, at least in the U.S.A., in the ‘80s there arose this anti-antitrust philosophy (championed by Robert Bork, among others) which held that massive mergers, market dominance by two or three players, even outright monopolies, weren’t really problems so long as there resulted “a reduction in cost” for consumers.
And of course the results of this 40-year project - of merging and consolidating and “standardizing” and replacing choice with the illusion of choice across all industries - has been disastrous in all but a few instances for everyone save for the very wealthiest of capital-holders.
The phrase “standards reduce costs” seems blithely rosy, and that’s because it skirts around whose costs are reduced - the top capital-holders’ production costs - and glosses over where those costs are shifted: onto the rest of us, to be extracted as countless physical, financial, social, and emotional tolls.
So I fleshed out some of the details.
From a software developer perspective, standardization makes a lot of sense. Imagine Microsoft operating systems being drastically different between versions.
In software development, you don't do and build up each function from scratch. You can either buy software codes that do certain functions, or you build it yourself. Once you have each functional code block fully tested to your satisfaction, you can then use and re-use it in future development. What this means your software will be very similar in functionalities, as well, as very predictable in behaviours.
The modular design means you get get things done quicker, cheaper, and most importantly, less problematic because each module had been tested to death for accuracy and reliability.
Modular design concepts is being used in many parts of society. Modular houses, modular machines, etc. That is why robotic is so critical to modern days because each robot does the same job, without fail.
But why the western world doesn't adopt the same design philosophy? I think it has to do with the overall philosophy of the two systems namely China and the west. China is not big on individuality, collectivism is acceptable way of life. The west is the opposite. Individualistic, and everyone vies to be different. That translates into even the public transport systems. Company A doesn't want to be the same as Company B and believes that it is so much better and cleverer than B. So off they went. They designed and built different systems just to prove to each other that they are indeed better. China won;t allow that wasteful competition.
This definitely reminds me a lot of what I’ve learned from your videos on India’s metro systems too, we should definitely have a bit more standardization in North America
Seems like India is also mass building metros too. I'd like to watch an explanation video to see what's going on for India's metros.
@@GMDThread8 he already has one. Covering all cities and one dedicated to delhi
@@kartik_sinha Ah yes. I'll check it out!
I couldn’t agree more!
@@RMTransit I hope its in works but Mumbai Metro development is worth looking into. 3 lines opened, 1 monorail , infamous suburban rail and already 10 metro lines either under construction or development phase.
I've been to Chengdu back when line 1 and 2 were the only lines and the metro trains there are some of the quietest and the smoothest I've ever experienced!
now there are eighteen lines in Chengdu! U can go there and have a try, that's huge changes!
I’m jealous!
@@ChengHe-zv6so Not yet! The line numbers go up to 18 tho
I first visited Shanghai in 2005 when there were only 4 lines in operation (1, 2, 3, and 5). I have lived here since 2007 when there were only 5 lines (Line 4 was partially open when I first moved here). Now there are 18 in operation (19 if you count the Pujiang Line APM), with 4 more under construction (including one out to Chongming Island in the Yangtze River Delta) and 3 higher speed regional rail lines under construction as well. The speed of Metro construction here is crazy.
I visited Chengdu in 2017 and there were only two (three?) lines then. Crazy how much they've expanded past few years
As an Indian we may have alot of differences but truly Chinese hospitality and Chinese people are kind hearted. Their development is something motivates us too.
Love from 🇮🇳
There are 46 cities in China has metro systems, including the world's largest metro systems Shanghai, and best systems in Shenzhen and chengdou. Chinese metro systems are by far the best, quietest, safest, smoothest, most convenient, modern, cleanest metro systems I ever experienced.
Not all the rolling stock are made by CRRC! Some were manufactured by ADtranz and Siemens like those of Shanghai's Line 1, Bombardier like those on Beijing's Capital Airport Express, and Alstom (cooperating with CRRC Nanjing) like those of Shanghai's Line 3. The way China is doing all this really is beautiful. I say beautiful because that's the feeling of progress when everyone is on the same page! Unity is key to get things done! In the past when PCCs were around, the streetcar companies were able to standardize PCCs successfully and they were everywhere in the US from Newark to Los Angeles! And then overtime...it's like the US has forgotten what works.
They were made to forget. Good streetcar networks = fewer opportunities to sell cars, so ... Same goes for zoning.
China has a big market which can let the company apply the local standard with huge amount of orders. Customise is very expensive when order amount is low. Small countries can only follow the companies' standards or other countries' standards.
The only Chinese rolling stock manufacturer not affiliated to CRRC is Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment or BSR.
You are very knowlegible supreme leader
How many times did the word "standard" or "standardize" appear in this video? Standards are really, really important. Here in Toronto, far too much time and money is wasted on "reinventing the wheel." In my opinion, we should adopt standards from whoever has the best ones, and then get on with building the stuff we need. Yes, use the Dutch CROW standards for bicycle infrastructure and the Chinese standards for rail transit, etc.
Haha, many times!
As far as I know, Toronto’s system was initially designed to be slightly different from standard trains to prevent big trains from wandering around Toronto’s streets. Then, the most recent liberal government was pushing one standard LRT train and standard payment system for all of southern Ontario. But then the latest Metrolinx head has gone crazy and started to push for crazy trains again built using Iraqi war contractors, so Toronto will not get the benefits of standard trains or standard stations or standard construction methods or anything.
Central coordinated planning is clearly the way to go when it comes to metros
Probably infrastructure in general.
The economy in general, comrade!
@@mato8225 no. For the economy you need a double system where large scale infrastructure and industry work is centrally planned and standardized while smaller scale and consumer targeted industry is locally done, preferably with coops or owner operator businesses. The local is better at meeting the rapidly changing needs and desires of a diverse population while large scale industry benefits from standardization and central planning to ensure smooth and uninterrupted work flow.
@@adorabell4253 damn right 👍
You don't need a centrally planned economy to standardize. Just look at the US road network. Not even the interstates, just regular roads. Every state has its own highway department and every city has its own roadworks division and yet all the roads use more or less the same markings and same signage. There's one standard manual they all base their processes on published by the federal government and there's nothing forcing them all to follow it (and they all diverge in various ways) but you can drive any vehicle from one state to the next without relearning how the roads work or changing your vehicle.
i'm from nanjing and the speciality of the metro here is the suburban lines which cover all the districts and even some other cities
老乡！
老乡，我南京板桥的
马鞍山对吧
Hell freezes over: RMTransit did a segment on Metro in China and it is focused on what others can learn from China. Next you should cover China CRH (High Speed Rail) which has even more clever standardization. Then you can cover the Tibet Railway which solved some very difficult environmental challenges with clever engineering. That said, there are some non-standard rail systems in China that were mainly "experiments" that lead to standardizing. You should seriously study HSR in China where standardizing the approach to building viaducts has been a major cost reduction verses the grade approach in most other countries, EDIT: As a native Shanghainese and train lover who lives near Shanghai North Station, I can confirm that from our Line 1 and 2 (by Siemens) to our mid 00's rail explosion, the systems have gotten progressively better, and as you state, the collective experience & knowledge to iterate good ideas and leave behind (or fix) bad ideas really is a advantage that not only in speed and cost reduction, but in the quality of service.
Another perk of this standardization is that it allows for design automation. City planners can simply feed city topology, desired locations for stations and capacities into a computer program and it can spit out basically a complete design based on the standards. This also reduces cost as less human work would be involved.
Glad to see some coverage of Chinese trains. Many other channels focus on Japanese trains, which are good by itself but no longer as modern. Most train innovation is now happening in China considering their investments on trains
I’d say they are still modern! Many are at least!
I wouldn't say Japanese trains are not modern. They roll out new types of trains every few years. And Tokyo metro trains are very new and clean.
The screen doors are really good safety feature. We should have that in North America, so no one get pushed down to the track.
Now compare this to New York constructing the most expensive subway line in existence. Honestly I HATE how shitty infrastructure projects are in the US
I guess another bonus from standardised rolling stock and perhaps even other components like rails and doors, might be that if down the line a city suffers depopulation or advances to some newer form of transport making the current setup obsolete, it can simply be shipped off to where it is needed, and slotted directly into that system with minimal adjustments.
Another cool feature of the five door carriages is that the gap between doors in the same carriage is the same size as the gap between the end doors of adjacent carriages. This means that if for capacity reasons the trains are shorter, or even slightly longer, than the platform, that it's easy to line up the doors without needing to think about where the carriage breaks are.
We haven't seen many depopulation issues in major cities yet, but I can recall a few cases of temporarily "borrowing" subway trains from other lines. Such as Beijing line 8, which borrowed the entire fleet from line 10 during operation phase 1, to meet the deadline of the 2008 Summer Olympics.
I visited Kunming 5 times over a 6ish year period. In that time span, they went from having no subway at all, to having three fully functioning lines. It was incredible. Meanwhile NYC has spent years and years just arguing about how to get a train a measly ~3 miles to LGA airport and not a single track has been laid. There are many things about China that are problematic, but I sure wish we could learn from things like this.
Standardisation is also good and convenient from travellers and commuters' perspective because when they move across various cities the experience is same instead of getting habituated to new type of travel in different city.
But sometimes it's kind of boring. What is the point of travelling if there is no new experience?
I expect at least different decors inside the car.
@@cachem11 the point of traveling is getting from point A to point B. The destinations are more important I guess.
I lived in Guangzhou from mid 2005 to late 2007. When I arrived, there were only 2 subway lines, but by Dec. of 2005, they'd opened the first bit of Line 3. When I left, I'm pretty sure Line 4 existed, and I knew there were expansion plans for the 2010 Asia Games. But at the time, there was no train to the airport. The intercity train from Guangzhou to Shenzhen also got a speed boost. Now I look at that map and see how much it's expanded, and how it connects to Foshan and Dongguan and it's like A Whole New World.
I'd LOVE to see a Transit Explained on Guangzhou, especially how their system has grown and interconnected with the cities around it in the Pearl River Delta region.
Actually, standardisation has been applied since Qin Dynasty in China from measurement to the width of horse carriage. We know its advantage and employ it as some basic rules.
Your knowledge about different cities' transit is amazing. I have lived in a few of the cities you mentioned, lived not visited, so i know their systems. And I have to say your analysis of those systems is spot on.
Standardization is old! In the 1960s many cities in western Germany wanted to upgrade their trams to metro, so the state of Northrhine-Westphalia set out to design the "Stadtbahnwagen Typ A", a standardized vehicle which all systems were supposed to use, but it came apparent that some cities couldn't follow this design, so the "Stadtbahnwagen Typ B" was designed, which lead to many cities having systems built with mostly the same specifications. This now enables services running in between cities, like Cologne-Bonn, systems which were originally separated
Und dann kam Stuttgart und sagte: schön und gut aber wir machen doch was eigenes.😂
I love how you've completely avoided any political comments or unnecessary foreshadowing. Just a fan of transit systems and it shows.
It would have been very interesting to listen about Moscow subway and their version of S-Bahn system, cause it’s large and VERY efficient.
Great video)
New Moscow subway lines were built by CRRC even in winters with temperature - 35 C .TBMs had hard time working because of hydraulic oil freeze but they had solved the problem with additives...
@@jimmylam9846 indeed, CRRC built tunnel constructions in parts of the recently-opened BKL (big circle line) in Moscow. They built two-track 10-meter-diameter tunnels for 4,5 km in the west of the BKL and for 3 km in the east.
Coming from a family working in BUCG (leading rail transit design agency in Beijing) and now graduated from UofT Engineering, gotta say kudos to your video!
And then we have Australia. Where each major city not only has separate train designs, but also different voltages and even gauge sizes. Fun!
Plus you have the Brisbane "Metro" that really isn't a metro, but one giant gadgetbahn.
Thank you for the video about China, from an interesting perspective which we as Chinese sometimes take for granted. Technological standardisation is efficient in terms of transport engineering. But it also comes with institutional "standardization"(or maybe barrier) that serves it, which harms flexibility in many ways, such as integrating services between the railway system (for regional services) and local transit system (for local servces). or differentiating fast and slow service on the same line (like RE and RB services in Germany or express and stopping services in many Japanese cities). They are technologically viable, but institutionally difficult.
How many cities in china have metro system?
@@Santanibalak1 more than 40? you may search Wikipedia for that like "Urban Rail Transit in China"
@@MrCindyhill i don't see Wikipedia as a authentic source specially when we comes on asia for example india have 20 metro cities and 17 are under development but Wikipedia say that India have only 13 Matro cities
@@Santanibalak1 Well, if that is the case, the central government also reports the number of cities that have metro systems. By the end of 2022, there are 53 cities in China have 290 rail transit lines in total. That is 9584 km and 5609 stations. Very few of them are trams so most of them are metro
@@MrCindyhill Nice, china is 1st in all types trains like high speed train, mono rail or metros or rapid metro
And also all western countries metro system aren't so good I see few of them in Germany
At abstract level, this goes to show how standardization is good. China does this in other ways like experimenting something in one area. If it becomes successful, using that as template in other places.
great video! its always interesting to see a deeper look into china’s public transport system
Plus, the same standard also makes it easier for metro lines from different cities to connect, so in Gunagzhou you can take hours of metro to Donggong
Guangzhou to Donguang is less than an hour.
china's mass transit is the best. more countries should build trains. I hate driving and flights should be only for overseas
👍
You are the David Attenborough of Transit! Your knowledge of transit systems around the world is incredible!
standardization is like first lesson taught 2000 years ago by Qin dynasty.
我想说其实全中国的公交系统基本都是标准化的，全国各地的公交车现在也逐渐统一了。而且现在也有交通联合公交卡，地铁、公交车什么的都可以刷，而且全国通用。如果你有Apple钱包的话你可以打开看一下，想象一下那里面所有中国的公交卡都可以在全国范围使用
Very interesting, we used to think of states/federal (US) or province/federal (Canada) political division (and even EU) works best for local affairs such as intra-city transport. But the centralized dogma of China, Japan, France etc can be even better when it works. Can you ever imagine, all the city/municipal/provincial/federal stakeholders get together and agree on one thing? BTW, in my childhood I watched the first ever Hong Kong MTR stations built walking distance from my home.
You're channel is getting good lately.
Best video, keep up the good work!
When I took my Chinese girlfriend to see London, the first underground line we went on was the Picadilly Line and she was amazed by it! The loudness of the trains, how cramped they are, the oldness of the stations, the dirtiness of it even, she thought it was fascinating and wondered how London could still use such an old-looking system. I've travelled around China a lot and yeh, most of the lines and stations look the same. On the one hand, that standardisation works really well and I can imagine it also makes planning future infrastructure a lot easier knowing everything can just fit together nicely. On the other hand, functionality entirely replaces distinctiveness and I think, especially in Europe, the distinctiveness of different stations and lines gives the network some fun or taste? I guess it doesn't really matter all that much, these lines are intended just to move people after all.
Nonetheless, China does have a few unique lines I think. I'm not really a rail enthusiast so I can't give details, but the older lines in Beijing seem more distinct from the newer ones.
As well as some lines in Chongqing.
Cities can decorate stations if they have extra money (i.e. for Europe).
But probably not possible for Europe, because small cities without metro don't have money for it and big cities have existing systems.
Though, trams are kinda standard (at least they look like).
i think that's mostly a result of the current zeitgeist of architectural and design philosophy. the systems in the western world go back over a century of history, so there is a lot of variation in how stations or train cars look. but almost all of these chinese systems are brand new and are thus designed in a neomodern way. i think they'll look back at it the way we do with our old ceramic tiled stations: timeless yet a thing of the past and outdated
Ah yes the screen doors. Lived in China for 18 years and when I came to NYC I was like how tf can they call this subway
I visited China in 2010 and noticed the Shenzhen and Guangzhou metro pretty much looked like the Hong Kong MTR which is a great design. Smart.
I much as I love weird nonstandard systems, I fully agree that, for new construction of lines, we really ought to be doing this. I wonder if other cities around the world could just "borrow" China's standards and buy Chinese trains. They've already done the legwork, maybe the rest of the world can share in the benefits?
The exported HSR in Indonesia uses Chinese trains and standards if I'm not wrong, as does the railway in Laos, too bad corrupt politicians in Malaysia blocked our HSR project
Sometimes, weird, non-standard systems are necessary... the problem is how often they're used when they're not.
90% of the lines were built in the last decade. Very remarkable.
This is very informative. Thanks 👏👏
ah I've been living in Chengdu for more than two decades but never thought about the subway system in that perspective😂
Love your work
When I lived in Shanghai in 2006, they had just opened their 5th line. Within 3 years they had 10 lines, now they are on line 19 and they are still expanding. Honestly there isn't anything even close to how quickly the Chinese build metro systems.
Excellent video.
Makes you think.
This bug of standard approach has now come to india too, the two voltage types re now just 25kv AC or 750vdc, same with trains , 4 car expandable to 8 car or 3 car expandable to 6 car, and then trains get certified by the RDSO, so after the first set gets approved, there is a standard set of documents to look up, unless site conditions need some else, same goes to Station spacing, and curves, gradients and all too, it’s wonderful, because as someone who works with metro systems in india m it’s just like how you have mentioned, there is pretty much 2 types of systems I need to be familiar with and then I am already in sync for more than 90% of the project scope, and the difference is pretty much that is site specific only
standardization is so logically obvious, and its also obvious why its not everywhere else: good old capitalism
Very interesting as per usual. Thank you.
My pleasure!
BTW, our very first standardization of writing and weighing/measuring as well as the highway systems was commissioned by the greatest unifier and the greatest Chinese emperor ever Qin Shihuangdi more than 2000 years ago. Also, China has 43 subway systems taking the first place in the world now followed by the US and India with 14 subway systems each taking the second place in the world.
The rapid transit system of Chongqing is quite impressive with two monorail lines and thousands of tunnels and bridges, why not make a video on that
more China metro videos please!!
And rail. The inter-city railways in china are really impressive with a huge high-speed network
@@o_s-24 but not impressive when talking about fares... 广铁 is the worst offender of having expensive-as-hell ticket fares.
@@GMDThread8 笑死，抢铁是吧哈哈哈
We shall see
@@GMDThread8 lol. Check out the prices in Australia if you want to see what overpriced train travel looks like.
Look at the new standard siemens trains winning orders everywhere in the US. Same design, engine, carriage etc bar some external paint job and interior colour scheme. Planes are the same. Even train stations seem bespoke design when a good prebuild would cut cost and boost completion speed
It is always better take over designs that works then invite a new one 😎
I remember living in Beijing back when the Beijing Subway started growing. Then I remember seeing metro systems popping up in Xi'An, Guizhou, Hangzhou, and more places. And I thought to myself.... hold on they all look the same. They took the same expertise they learned from Beijing and just applied it everywhere else. The only thing even close to this in North America was when the US built their post-war metro systems, something I wish we could go back to, but maybe with automated light/heavy metros with platform screen doors.
Thank you so much.
Logic:Walking and lots of public transit with dirt cheap fares = less sick ppl. Thus maintain affordable health care system. Progressive leadership.
Great video as always, Reece. Are these standards available online somewhere? ideally in English?
India needs a similar system but what lacks is standardization. You have 22,000+ trains running daily but none of them can be replaced as they are unique. This leaves the Indian Railways with no option other this building new train models and continue with the existing ones for different passenger segments at different price points.
I’d love a video on China’s high-speed rail to Tibet, which seems like tech straddling a line between sci-fi and beautifully bonkers!
The current line to Lhasa via Golmud is not high speed rail, it's conventional rail (120-160km/h max). They are building a new line from Chengdu to Lhasa to open around 2030 which will significantly reduce travel time to about 10-12 hours from Chengdu, but it still will only have an operational speed of 160km/h so is not considered HSR.
@@LukeRichardson1981 Thanks for the info. This is surprisingly hard to find. I suppose HSR is hard to do on mountains.
Lol I'm literally on the chengdu line 7 loop line now watching you name drop it
As an Indian i really admire the Chinese for the amount development they have done for their country, i hope my country is also goes on the same path.
Don't. Then you have no freedom what so ever.
@@cachem11 in terms of development only I mean
@@mohitshrivastava5412 India is already standardizing its metro systems as well. 15 new metro systems in the past decade, all based on the Delhi Metro, and more are in the planning and construction pipeline.
@@ianhomerpura8937 yess even my tier 2 city is also getting a metro network. During Congress era it was always getting delayed and now it's construction is rapidly happening.
Go India! We are also rooting for you - from a Chinese.
I've heard people try to say that the only way china has been able to build so much infrastructure in such a short time is by skimping on safety (both for workers and end users), quality and durability of these systems. I doubt that's true but even if it is we can still learn a ton from how they do things to improve projects in other parts of the world
Don't doubt the work of top engineers, they won't allow such a shoddy design to ruin their careers.
Thanks for this video. The germans did this on a smaller scale for the S-Bahn Systems in Munich, Stuttgart, Rhine-Main and Rhine-Ruhr
Couldn't agree more. We need far more standardisation for trains and tracks in the west, churn 'em out and build 'em.
I can't help but think of how many variants of each platform BR ended up creating, fine tuned to each region they'd run in, supposedly to be cheaper for reliability for keeping all the extra parts and expertise counteracted any efficiency gains...
Man it’s like i’ll see what Russia China and Japan does with building massive amounts of insanely nice metro lines and then look back to Toronto to see news of service cuts to the TTC because “it’s too expensive” to operate… The austerity politics over building any public transit is so insane in North America, they make it seem as if building 1km of metro line will turn Canada into Haiti or some other impoverished nation
It is absolutely baffling that one of the wealthiest nation in the world practices austerity in their infrastructure building.
As of early 2023, 45 cities in China have implemented rail transit systems. The operating mileage in Shanghai and Beijing exceeds 800 kilometers. There are 11 cities in China with subway systems of more than 500 kilometers. The total operating mileage in China has exceeded 10,000 kilometers. More subway systems than the rest of the world's operating subway systems combined. The scale of Chinese cities is huge, and the development of public transportation is a top priority.
when China bought its tunnel boring machine (TBM) from abroad, it was expensive, when it was down it had to wait for service from abroad.
China then put a team of engineers and designers together to design its own TBM. China not only selling its own and it also manufacture for some of its competitors.
it's the economy of scale that set China apart from its competitors.
Berkeley Ca had an amazing trolly car system so good you did not need a car. For example, Berkeley hills had 5 trolly lines. Then a company created by Standard oil, GM and Goodyear Tire bought trolly lines, sold the metal as scrap and eliminated many public transportation systems including the East Bay trolly network. This forced many people to buy cars. The trolly network was much better than BART that came decades later.
Good example of that transit doesn't need fancy "character" it just need to be cheap and move a lot of people.
Still it is a lot fancier than US systems
great video.
Your knowledge is most impressive.
That's the difference between a country functioning as one country and countries resembling the tower of Babel.
When you talked about Canada’s weird transport system it reminded me of how Lagos Nigeria’s, mass transit might develop. I know a Biue Line which is almost completed with its first phase and it’s a typical emu metro with modern Walk through carriages but I’ve seen a poster for a future green line and that looks like a tram.
Standardized systems reduce costs in manufacturing and repair and maintenance efficiency. 😊
Standardization is a good thing. It saves money, especially in the maintenance department, without needing to store vast variety of components for different metro trains
Depends. USSR house blocks are also standard but ugly AF. And hard to maintain still.
Though, if they design standard blocks for pretty classical buildings - it would get great approval.
@@michaeluvarov2373 It's a different thing. You can standardize bricks, electric wires, safety features etc. You can then vary designs.
@@PeterXiao1classical buildings are built from the standard bricks already. But many exterior parts are not standard (and it is 90% of looks).
But I think some 3d printing tech for concrete/ceramics would do a lot of wonders in making custom stuff cheap.
One issue that arises a lot is planners underestimating projected ridership. Wikipedia is the biggest English source I read, and I've lost count of how many lines across the 45+ subway systems end up underestimating crowds. Lines with smaller and narrower Type B trains end up with overcrowding, whereas Type A trains would have been useful. Then they have to start retrofitting the existing lines for future Type A service.
Some of the 6B lines are so badly crowded, that the best amendment seems to be to build a new high capacity, express services line along them.
This is also somewhat a consequence of centralized planning. When a submits its construction planning to the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC, 发改委), it might get rejected because the NDRC underestimates the city's growth. One example is Shenzhen's Line 11, it only made it to 8A trains by designating the two end cars as "Business cars" for airport travellers, if you looked all the lines approved & constructed around that time, they were mostly 6B or at best 6A.
Or even Type C trains where at least type B or even type A would be warranted - looking at you, Shanghai Metro Lines 6 and 8!
@@LukeRichardson1981 Here in Germany, there are currently a number of projects to reopen old rail lines for new regional public transit. There's typically a study done as to how much ridership is expected, to see if doing the project is worth it. It seems that in pretty much every case, the actual numbers turn out to be significantly higher than estimated.
Basically by financial reason. by that time cities in China are still poor, and CRRC nearly can't build Type A train, so the imported expensive Type A train is not an option for many cities. They can only choose Type B. Another reason is that Type A in Shanghai did appear to be empty for some time, so the later lines in other cities designed in that time tend to choose smaller capacity,
Cities in China are changing very rapidly, for instance, just 30 years ago Shenzhen was just mostly farming area, today it's the world's most advanced and populated city, with people still pouring in from all over China and foreigners from other countries, moving there to live and work. Two main metro lines 2 decades ago now expanded into many multi-lines to areas where were just farms 20 years ago.
7:05 'Line 18 anyone' needs to be a meme that only RM Transit fans will know... :D
There is a great deal of effort put in place by you in your presentation.
This is not a topic that will ever have millions of views. Nor will you ever have millions of subscribers.
Keep up the good work. Best wishes.
This reminds me of Ryanair’s extreme cost-reduction, which is also largely enabled by extreme standardisation.
Underrated video.
Just saw a video on Guangzhou's metro train that can run 160km/h. Its shocking.
The real Chinese secret is their willingness to work together, in spite of individual sacrifice, for the greater common good/cause.
Re: no other country has ever achieved this standardization...
USSR has entered the chat.
They had literally one single type of subway train
Thinking of the standardized train bit, it's interesting to compare this with airplanes used by airlines. There are relatively few models available (not counting regional aircraft or obscure things never seen outside Russia I can think of 8 passenger airliners in current production: B737, B777, B787, A220, A320, A330, A350, E-175/E-195), with some variations of each. Basically all the major airlines around the world use these. They are standardized in other ways as well, able to use the same airport facilities (with different gate sizes), ground servicing equipment, navigation systems, and so on. While some airlines need custom variants, I don't believe any airline has had a custom-designed just-for-them airplane since the early days of aviation. I suppose part of that is that, while belonging to different airlines, they all operate on the same "system" of airspace and airports rather than metro trains that operate on isolated networks. Meanwhile in many cases metro system trains seem to be sort of custom designed for each network. In Denver the light rail system uses pretty standard Siemens SD-100 and SD-160 trains, while the incompatible commuter rail system uses Hyundai-Rotem Silverliner V cars - these are derived from the ones used by SEPTA (the only other user of the type), but with some differences in equipment, interior outfitting, motors, and so on - at least they didn't design their cars from scratch, but I get the sense many cities do. Though I recall that historically some rolling stock, like the PCC Streetcar, was pretty standardized.
Airlines have little margins, run by commercial companies, could change routes easily.
So, if maintenance would take longer, it would take a lot of losses.
While metro lines are run by government or state companies in a lot of places and changing routes is impossible.
Oh, and at least for tram lines city policies are kinda "we are fine to replace tracks for half a year or more".