I think the main problem is that the build stat caps out at 12 for royal knight, and 14 for griffin knight, so even if you reclass pandreo for instance to royal knight its still gonna be -4 speed if he gains 2 build by level up.
the elemental weapons feel like they were going to do something else with them and scrapped it at the last second, but kept the stats the same. Imagine if: Levin Sword was 1-3 range like thoron, high base damage, but could not follow-up Flame Lance burned the tile the enemy is sitting on Hurricane Axe knocked back enemies 2 or 3 tiles instead of only 1 tile
It’s viable in the sense that it gives Lances a way to deal with Armors, but considering that most classes that can use it could just use Swords instead, I’d say it’s often not worth it
I think the best use for it really is if you already plan on using lances for their physical traits on a hybrid unit. Chloe, Framme and Mauvier can get away with using it and then are able to choose which enemy stat to target. The advantage would be that you can use lances like tbe beast slayer, silver greatlance or the spear while also reserving a magic option. It's a decent second choice, but if you plan on using flame lance/levinsword as your primary weapon for everything, it obviously won't be as useful.
If I could rebalance the main 3 magical weapons, I would drop Levin Sword to 10 Mt, change Flame Lance to 15 Mt and 13 wt, while keeping Hurricane Axe as is. This puts them all at +5 damage for +2 weight, which seems fair. As is, no class that would be stuck running Lances can equip Flame Lance without being weighed down.
I know this isn't totally related but I see people giving Celine a Levin Sword pretty often and I don't totally get why aside from using abilities like Sword Power and occasionally breaking enemies
@That Crystar Guy she's the only Mystic in the game with access to martial weapons. Override gets a sizeable damage boosted from the class-type, and would need a Levin Sword or Flame Lance equipped to utilize the boost. She also comes early enough to get some benefit from Sword Power before someone like Pandreo comes around and steals her thunder.
I would assume they balanced not weapons, but weapon lines: sword doesn't have a ranged physical weapon? Give it more Mt so the sword units with low magic can still use it as an option. Lance already has ranged options? Then dual damage comes at a cost. Just like there's anti-cav + anti-armour with axes, but just one or the other with swords/lances, in exchange for which they get the worst magic weapon.
Flame lance has been very good for me in during my current maddening run without dlc, only up to chapter 17 right now, but it is the weapon I have attacked most with with Chloe and she is one of my most used units. It's like a better killer lance that can attack from range with the blazing engrave. I gave Chloe both magic dust and a magic tonic each map and build +4 and she has been melting anything with armor, though I do carry a steel lance for units with higher res. This allows me to have her with staves instead of swords, which I find to be much better overall.
I've been running Magical Devastator Chole. Griffon then eventually wyvern knight + leif with +5 magic. Hurricane Axe + Light Brand + Flame lance. Leif giving build and light brand is great plus arms shield underrated.
I think the way people use him as MC is firstly by using him normally so he can get some growths in then once you get Byleth, he inherits divine pulse(+) and reprisal and give him Roy for hold out/ inherit hold out and give him Veronica. Switch him to MC then let him get low and all of a sudden he's killing from across the map. Idk if there's a specific build that people are using for him but I feel like this set up can work for anyone tbh
I feel like for it to be better other than weight reduction, or engravings. It would need to have some type of after effect component. Like it lights the title on file for extra chip damage even when it misses. And you'd probably need stuff like Anima Focus, but at that point... you are investing too much into making one weapon viable, when you have so many other choices that don't have to deal with any of it's weaknesses, better pay off, and at lower investment. At that point, might as well throw Draconic Hex on it. You are not making use of Lunar Bracer because it is a magic weapon as well lmao. Like, making it good, feels like it would be super niche... I get Mauvier makes alright use of it... because he is in this weird split of STR and MAG. But... there are better use cases for him still.
so what i usually do when with low build units is give them +3 build with leifs skill for 500 so that 3 less speed bringing you down and i actually like giving it to mauvier with dragonic hex and yes i agree its weight is absolutly awful being 16 but with plus 3 build and mauvier having 12 he will only be losing 1 speed from it
One thing that did bug me about Engage was the absence of the Great Lance. In previous games, this was the Lance version of Armour Slayer.. and Flame Lance being weaker and almost impossible to double with makes it way yo unwieldy.
I don't think it's that it's bad so much as that the Levin Sword is just an amazing weapon comparatively. Sword Power and Levin Sword on a Mage Knight or Griffon Knight is single-handedly the best way to cheese through enemies on Maddening with Bonded Shield, and the Flame Lance just doesn't have that kind of firepower.
I can't see why the devs making flame lance so bad, it's unfortunate cause it's a nice looking weapon. It also has bad availability, you only get it by buying it in chapter 18 or trying to refine it yourself while levin sword you get it in chapter 12. It's the same with spear I guess, very heavy but the might it gives just not worth it.
It's basically built to be a Sigurd Mauvier weapon, Sigurd gives Mauiver, who is at Royal Knight's build cap of 12, 3 build for 15, throw something like a Sigurd Engrave on it and he isn't weighed down at all, while being able to use override to hit either magical with his Flame Lance or physical with his Silver Greatlance, grab him Lance Power and he'll actually do all this quite well. 14 attack momentum plus 10 from lance power hitting either physical or magical can be deadly. Outside of that use the Flame Lance is a pretty nothing weapon.
It's good on a lance flying unit if you can spare the slot. I use it on a debuff Chloe and it helps hit the debuff on armor units that are too high def to hit usually.
This is the wrong argument to make. In a vacuum, yes it is worse than Levin in every way except the most important one. Spears are just way better than every sword, except maybe Byleth's personal 1-2 weapon. In reality, spears are just generally better than swords because of 1-2 range and more damage. The flame spear is just a niche weapon to kill generals. Generally people are just using their strongest 1-2 weapon most of the time. People don't generally main their magic weapons on physical units unless it is a specialized magic build. Yes you lose speed, but your 30 or 40 speed chloe will still double generals and probably even armored knights with any speed loss on that weapon. Just treat it as a niche slayer weapon and you wont be sad. Yes I said, spears not lances, being stuck on 1 range and having to RELY on levin swords to hit back at 2 range is awful. You do less damage than javelins, spears, handaxes, tomahawks, and you do no damage vs caster units.
Normally I would agree but this game is very very sword friendly. Sword’s light weight is sculpt useful here since enemies get so fast. This isn’t gba where enemies constantly have 1-2 range and have bad stats so they get mowed down. Physically enemies don’t really have 1-2 range weapons that often making it less valuable in that regard. And attacking mages with that is tough solely because they hit so hard that even 2 mages can nuke someone. Sword axe is the best weapon combo in this game due to how the low weight of swords helps out for faster enemies while axes get power shots, effective damage. Really really strong 1-2 range while still doubling the slower- mid speed stuff. Lances just aren’t that useful there because single weapon type classes (that aren’t griffin which use swords way more as well since they are mixed attacks) just aren’t very good in this game. Paladin and halb aren’t bad classes but paladin is so mid that it doesn’t really see much use and halb is very niche and requires so much setup that it really isn’t worth practically speaking. and lance griffin is pretty worthless compared to sword griffin. Magic is better in every situation except when fighting mages due to how high enemy def is in this game. You really only use phys weapons for the mages so you just go with sword power to make your Levin sword stronger for fighting most things and your phys swords will also beat up stuff like mages. Same applies to mage knight. Swords are an option in almost every engage attack. Meanwhile lances only have override. But even then you can just invest in stuff like the silver blade and trade that around for people to use on many of your engage attacks. Axes get away with it since great aether is just great and can do funny stuff like silver great axe and Hurricane axe great aether yes override can do silver great lance but the game between that and the silver blade isn’t as high as great axe along with a lot of effective options. lances have ridersbane of course but it’s really rough to use. Poleaxe can get away with it since great aether is great and has warrior for unga bunga atk and build and wyvern being very likely to use axes. The only time wyvern doesn’t use axes is if it has Lance boon and doesn’t have a spd stat (aka louis/Jade type people). Override also has the fact that mage knight with Sigurd is really strong and they do Levin sword overrides. Sword power is a very practically skill since it lowers up your phys weapons and magic weapons for general combat and engage attacks. This is like the first time where lances are the worst of the weapon triangle. It’s not that they are bad it’s that they just aren’t very practically due to class types and weapon combos. Along with Levin sword being so good for mixed attacks and mages and phys speedsters liking the lower weight since enemies are fast and so many engage attacks being sword based Someone like Chloe shouldn’t even bother with lance griffin. It’s slower due to the higher weight of lances. A magic option is better almost all of the time and Levin sword is an objectively better weapon and her phys sword should get all the mage killing done that she needs. Sword power makes it strong enough to get good thresholds. Sword griffin’s are just better then the other 2 (because if your not a mixed attacker/mage griffin then what are you doing?)
Mage Knight caps Bld at 12, so it’s much less useful there. I think Lance Power does make it more usable, but even then I think if you want to use a magical weapon Sword Power is the way to go, and instead let your lancers deal with other enemies
Finally! Japanese VA. It’s so much better man, makes the game dialogue so much more bearable. I found flame Lance just fall victim to javelin +5 with Lance power.
If it wasn't for the huge weight it might be viable, not good, just viable
I think the main problem is that the build stat caps out at 12 for royal knight, and 14 for griffin knight, so even if you reclass pandreo for instance to royal knight its still gonna be -4 speed if he gains 2 build by level up.
the elemental weapons feel like they were going to do something else with them and scrapped it at the last second, but kept the stats the same.
Imagine if:
Levin Sword was 1-3 range like thoron, high base damage, but could not follow-up
Flame Lance burned the tile the enemy is sitting on
Hurricane Axe knocked back enemies 2 or 3 tiles instead of only 1 tile
It’s viable in the sense that it gives Lances a way to deal with Armors, but considering that most classes that can use it could just use Swords instead, I’d say it’s often not worth it
Looking at weights, it looks like flame lance should be the smash weapon and hurricane axe should be a normal range 1-2
I think the flame lance is a lot worse than the levin sword just to mess with Mauvier
Smh my head 🤦
Halberdier pincer bonus to negate that flame lance weight to double any enemies 🤣
I think the best use for it really is if you already plan on using lances for their physical traits on a hybrid unit. Chloe, Framme and Mauvier can get away with using it and then are able to choose which enemy stat to target. The advantage would be that you can use lances like tbe beast slayer, silver greatlance or the spear while also reserving a magic option. It's a decent second choice, but if you plan on using flame lance/levinsword as your primary weapon for everything, it obviously won't be as useful.
If I could rebalance the main 3 magical weapons, I would drop Levin Sword to 10 Mt, change Flame Lance to 15 Mt and 13 wt, while keeping Hurricane Axe as is. This puts them all at +5 damage for +2 weight, which seems fair. As is, no class that would be stuck running Lances can equip Flame Lance without being weighed down.
I dislike the Levin sword nerf, plz don't touch my levin sword builds
I know this isn't totally related but I see people giving Celine a Levin Sword pretty often and I don't totally get why aside from using abilities like Sword Power and occasionally breaking enemies
@That Crystar Guy she's the only Mystic in the game with access to martial weapons. Override gets a sizeable damage boosted from the class-type, and would need a Levin Sword or Flame Lance equipped to utilize the boost. She also comes early enough to get some benefit from Sword Power before someone like Pandreo comes around and steals her thunder.
@@cryguy0000 it hits really hard magically and celine can double her speed isn’t bad at all.
I would assume they balanced not weapons, but weapon lines: sword doesn't have a ranged physical weapon? Give it more Mt so the sword units with low magic can still use it as an option. Lance already has ranged options? Then dual damage comes at a cost. Just like there's anti-cav + anti-armour with axes, but just one or the other with swords/lances, in exchange for which they get the worst magic weapon.
Yeah when i saw that I just made cholé a sword griffin Lmfao
Flame lance has been very good for me in during my current maddening run without dlc, only up to chapter 17 right now, but it is the weapon I have attacked most with with Chloe and she is one of my most used units. It's like a better killer lance that can attack from range with the blazing engrave. I gave Chloe both magic dust and a magic tonic each map and build +4 and she has been melting anything with armor, though I do carry a steel lance for units with higher res. This allows me to have her with staves instead of swords, which I find to be much better overall.
I've been running Magical Devastator Chole. Griffon then eventually wyvern knight + leif with +5 magic. Hurricane Axe + Light Brand + Flame lance. Leif giving build and light brand is great plus arms shield underrated.
Could you do a video on mage cannoneer Bourcheon? Everyone says that he’s good as one but I don’t see it.
I think the way people use him as MC is firstly by using him normally so he can get some growths in then once you get Byleth, he inherits divine pulse(+) and reprisal and give him Roy for hold out/ inherit hold out and give him Veronica. Switch him to MC then let him get low and all of a sudden he's killing from across the map.
Idk if there's a specific build that people are using for him but I feel like this set up can work for anyone tbh
I feel like for it to be better other than weight reduction, or engravings. It would need to have some type of after effect component. Like it lights the title on file for extra chip damage even when it misses. And you'd probably need stuff like Anima Focus, but at that point... you are investing too much into making one weapon viable, when you have so many other choices that don't have to deal with any of it's weaknesses, better pay off, and at lower investment.
At that point, might as well throw Draconic Hex on it. You are not making use of Lunar Bracer because it is a magic weapon as well lmao. Like, making it good, feels like it would be super niche... I get Mauvier makes alright use of it... because he is in this weird split of STR and MAG. But... there are better use cases for him still.
Used it with royal knight pandreo and it was pretty solid
so what i usually do when with low build units is give them +3 build with leifs skill for 500 so that 3 less speed bringing you down and i actually like giving it to mauvier with dragonic hex and yes i agree its weight is absolutly awful being 16 but with plus 3 build and mauvier having 12 he will only be losing 1 speed from it
commenting for the algorithm
can you do a hurricane axe?
ye
anna can make flame lance work for max luck cap build with Erika, along with lance agility
It’s heavier than a dang Silver Greatlance lmao
16wt vs 15wt
One thing that did bug me about Engage was the absence of the Great Lance. In previous games, this was the Lance version of Armour Slayer.. and Flame Lance being weaker and almost impossible to double with makes it way yo unwieldy.
what? lol
great lance is only in thracia and isn't armor-effective. The Heavy Spear is what you're thinking of.
@@Bajax Yeah Heavy Spear is whatni mean, my bad lol xD
16 weight though
I don't think it's that it's bad so much as that the Levin Sword is just an amazing weapon comparatively. Sword Power and Levin Sword on a Mage Knight or Griffon Knight is single-handedly the best way to cheese through enemies on Maddening with Bonded Shield, and the Flame Lance just doesn't have that kind of firepower.
I can't see why the devs making flame lance so bad, it's unfortunate cause it's a nice looking weapon. It also has bad availability, you only get it by buying it in chapter 18 or trying to refine it yourself while levin sword you get it in chapter 12. It's the same with spear I guess, very heavy but the might it gives just not worth it.
And Spear can use heavy attack from Hector Emblem
It's cuz they had to nerf enemy Mauv smh my head
@@vicentesanchezjr.3877 They nerf Mauvier so bad until he becomes the least menacing to face out of 4 hounds
@@yohanes2034 exarkly
are you not playing tears of the kingdom instead ?
I've been live streaming a chat sabotage engage run so far, haven't had time lately but will resume eventually :)
I’m doing magic only run and flame lance halbredier is nice (but also kind of really bad)
Mauvier runs it best
It's basically built to be a Sigurd Mauvier weapon, Sigurd gives Mauiver, who is at Royal Knight's build cap of 12, 3 build for 15, throw something like a Sigurd Engrave on it and he isn't weighed down at all, while being able to use override to hit either magical with his Flame Lance or physical with his Silver Greatlance, grab him Lance Power and he'll actually do all this quite well. 14 attack momentum plus 10 from lance power hitting either physical or magical can be deadly.
Outside of that use the Flame Lance is a pretty nothing weapon.
I only run random growths and got lucky with mk Chloe and she had like 14 build so flame Lance Lance power chrom engage melted everything in her way
Lance power 5 would mean you get to do +1 more damage than a sword power 3 unit. . . Sadly.
Vander squad Lmao
It's good on a lance flying unit if you can spare the slot. I use it on a debuff Chloe and it helps hit the debuff on armor units that are too high def to hit usually.
This is the wrong argument to make. In a vacuum, yes it is worse than Levin in every way except the most important one. Spears are just way better than every sword, except maybe Byleth's personal 1-2 weapon. In reality, spears are just generally better than swords because of 1-2 range and more damage. The flame spear is just a niche weapon to kill generals. Generally people are just using their strongest 1-2 weapon most of the time. People don't generally main their magic weapons on physical units unless it is a specialized magic build. Yes you lose speed, but your 30 or 40 speed chloe will still double generals and probably even armored knights with any speed loss on that weapon. Just treat it as a niche slayer weapon and you wont be sad. Yes I said, spears not lances, being stuck on 1 range and having to RELY on levin swords to hit back at 2 range is awful. You do less damage than javelins, spears, handaxes, tomahawks, and you do no damage vs caster units.
Normally I would agree but this game is very very sword friendly. Sword’s light weight is sculpt useful here since enemies get so fast. This isn’t gba where enemies constantly have 1-2 range and have bad stats so they get mowed down. Physically enemies don’t really have 1-2 range weapons that often making it less valuable in that regard. And attacking mages with that is tough solely because they hit so hard that even 2 mages can nuke someone. Sword axe is the best weapon combo in this game due to how the low weight of swords helps out for faster enemies while axes get power shots, effective damage. Really really strong 1-2 range while still doubling the slower- mid speed stuff.
Lances just aren’t that useful there because single weapon type classes (that aren’t griffin which use swords way more as well since they are mixed attacks) just aren’t very good in this game. Paladin and halb aren’t bad classes but paladin is so mid that it doesn’t really see much use and halb is very niche and requires so much setup that it really isn’t worth practically speaking. and lance griffin is pretty worthless compared to sword griffin. Magic is better in every situation except when fighting mages due to how high enemy def is in this game. You really only use phys weapons for the mages so you just go with sword power to make your Levin sword stronger for fighting most things and your phys swords will also beat up stuff like mages. Same applies to mage knight.
Swords are an option in almost every engage attack. Meanwhile lances only have override. But even then you can just invest in stuff like the silver blade and trade that around for people to use on many of your engage attacks. Axes get away with it since great aether is just great and can do funny stuff like silver great axe and Hurricane axe great aether yes override can do silver great lance but the game between that and the silver blade isn’t as high as great axe along with a lot of effective options. lances have ridersbane of course but it’s really rough to use. Poleaxe can get away with it since great aether is great and has warrior for unga bunga atk and build and wyvern being very likely to use axes. The only time wyvern doesn’t use axes is if it has Lance boon and doesn’t have a spd stat (aka louis/Jade type people). Override also has the fact that mage knight with Sigurd is really strong and they do Levin sword overrides. Sword power is a very practically skill since it lowers up your phys weapons and magic weapons for general combat and engage attacks.
This is like the first time where lances are the worst of the weapon triangle. It’s not that they are bad it’s that they just aren’t very practically due to class types and weapon combos. Along with Levin sword being so good for mixed attacks and mages and phys speedsters liking the lower weight since enemies are fast and so many engage attacks being sword based
Someone like Chloe shouldn’t even bother with lance griffin. It’s slower due to the higher weight of lances. A magic option is better almost all of the time and Levin sword is an objectively better weapon and her phys sword should get all the mage killing done that she needs. Sword power makes it strong enough to get good thresholds. Sword griffin’s are just better then the other 2 (because if your not a mixed attacker/mage griffin then what are you doing?)
flame lance is cool
Mage Knight caps Bld at 12, so it’s much less useful there. I think Lance Power does make it more usable, but even then I think if you want to use a magical weapon Sword Power is the way to go, and instead let your lancers deal with other enemies
Would Build +4 be able to fix that?
It's also good for breaking a sword user with low resistance, it anyone cares.
Finally! Japanese VA. It’s so much better man, makes the game dialogue so much more bearable. I found flame Lance just fall victim to javelin +5 with Lance power.