Why You Should Play D&D 3.5 (Instead of 5E)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2023
- In this video I talk about why you should Play Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 instead of playing Dungeons and Dragons 5E.
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3e/3.5 and their "level adjustments" for me will always be one of THE BEST REASONS to play the system. It literally made practically everything in the monster manuals playable.
That is true. Even more so with the book Savage Species.
Level Adjustments sound very fine on paper, but as fellow players found out, in practice they nerfed characters way too much and powerwise they do not scale properly with other LA given by templates.
In case you are interrested, I have a variant which doesn't affect ECL itself, but rather take up XP. XP in this system is used to determine your ECL, which is way more lenient, which includes RHD.
In essence class levels, RHD and LA have their own level tables. And those levels are seperately translated into XP, which determines one's ECL.
In order to avoid total powercreep ECL is the limit of how high one's own spellcasting can be, BAB, skillranks and which HD you will use.
And if this system is intriguing, I will post you the link, where it is explained further in detail.
@@ThanatosZero I just use the LA Adjustments from the GITP forums which helps a lot with making monster pcs suck less
@@zakronthesheep For some reason my comments were not accepted, but in any case, I recommend you to look into the system I and TEO Ultimus made. The thread is called "How to make Level Adjustments and Racial Hit Die playable in a believeable way".
The reason why I recommend this, is due how easy it can be used on all creatures on the Monster Manual. Also paragon classes become more playable and no longer take up too much space within level progression.
I love my Ogre Mage Warrior
Yay!! we still play 3.5, started with AD&D. Tried 4th and 5th too, but always came back to 3.5. strongly agree, its the best
You have some pretty good taste. 3.5 is the best. Glad you stuck with it.
Same with our group. We started with 2ed (Me and one other player started with AD&D) but never had an interest in 4th and didn't even know 5e came out until a couple years ago.
I play both but 3.5 is by far more detailed
It is indeed, and in my opinion more fun.
While 3.5 is not supported by the current regime at WotC, the sheer volume of splat books and 3rd party material is likely more than any one person would need.
That is very true. I've got a bookshelf full of 3.5 books, and I'm not even close to owning all of them.
backing up troves is the way.
The thing about 3.5 is that is you are mature enough and your style of game is about immersion, you wont try to break the game and you have plenty of tools for hour low level rp and thats REALLY fun
I agree. It's not that hard to keep things fun in 3.5. You don't have to break the game, and a good DM can keep that in check. Now if you want to break the game, that can be fun too, under the right conditions.
3.5e was my first edition. I do play 5e, but ultimately, nothing has beaten 3.5e in terms of just the sheer amount of actions you have the options to use.
You can trip, disarm, grapple, feint, bull rush, switch weapons as a move action, ready an action for the next round, go on total defense, control a frightened mount, pick up an item as a move action or drop an item as a free action, you can loose a shield as a move action and draw a light weapon in your offhand in that same move action, you can use a full round action to attack multiple times if your base attack bonus is above 5, you can run at four times your normal movement or three if you're using heavy armor, you can take a five foot step without sacrificing your move action, so you're able to take a 5 foot step, draw/switch weapons, then attack, or be able to take a five foot step and use your full attack.
Overall it's just a better system, rather than it being a game about who has more people on the field. The action economy is just a boring way to play the game. Give players a challenge by putting a few extra enemies on the map. Whereas, a few enemies who use their actions to their fullest extent can destroy a party if they play poorly.
You make some really good points there. Also, a decent number of move actions can be done while actually moving, to save even more time.
You can do all of those things in 5E if your DM allows it.
@@RyanMartinRAM, writes _"You can do all of those things in 5E if your DM allows it."_
Translation: You can do all those things in 5e if your DM instigates house rules to make it more like 3.5e.
I’ve just convinced my Roll20 group to give 3.5 a try. With all the fuss regarding 5E at the moment, I really didn’t feel like starting a new campaign using it, and getting players off D&D is tricky, so 3.5 was a compromise. Hopefully they may even find they prefer it.
Does Roll20 have 3.5 rules?
That's awesome! I hope they prefer it as well. I know I do. And yes @blktom it does, well at least as much as it does 5E. Just change your grid rules, since that's really the only thing it keeps track of that's different.
@@blktom It doesn't have a compendium the way it has for 5E, but i can upload pdfs to it, and there is a character sheet available. it is going to require a lot more work setting up spells and monsters, but for me that is all part of running a game
I run 3.5/Pathfinder 1E myself but I use Fantasy Grounds instead of Roll20. Fantasy Grounds has the SRD of the 3.5 rules and I added to it by creating the PHB and M&M as modules. Its a lot of work doing these conversions but once you have them, it makes it easier to run adventures and such.
DrivethruRPG has reprinted copies of some of the 3.5 books. I bought the magic item compendium two months ago from them. Lucky I grabbed up a lot of 3.5 books when 4th edition was released. I’ve even played 4th edition and 5th but I love 3.5 customization.
That's where i've been getting my 3.5 book pdfs. I prefer it over buying used physical copies because they give WotC a percent of the sales of the pdfs, which, whether one likes WotC or not, is a fair way of handling things.
That's good to know. I've heard a few people mention them. I've mostly just bought all my books used on Amazon.
3.5 or die
Racial substitution classes, prestige classes, multiclassing, class substitution levels can all be combined
One of my faves is an Elven Paladin/Paladin/Knight of Corellon Larethian/Duelist
Even just with Races, its so diverse, especially when factoring in Bloodlines etc, and other feats
Basically if you can think it up, you should be able to do it
There are only a few strict rules that even then broken in specific circumstances, like Paladins usually can't multiclass
Designing your own magical weapons and armor is super fun as well for a DM and the player
Wizards and Clerics can litterally create their own custom spells, it is just not very common, but rules in the DM'S guides can really help develop new totally unique spells and magic items.
You basically can do everything
This is very true. Pretty much everything in the game is craftable too, other than like artifacts and stuff, but those are designed to be special, so that makes sense.
@@MitchBurns i would be making a staff of the magi like every level, i would carry like 3 of them
3.5 feels like advanced 5e. I usually start new players on 5e before moving them to 3.5
That's the way to do it if you ask me.
WOOT found another 3.5 channel. +1 subscriber. love you guys who are still making content for my favorite game style
I'm glad to have you hear. I'm curious what you mean by another 3.5 channel. I wasn't aware there were others that were actually active, and I've been looking.
@@MitchBurns only other one i found is www.youtube.com/@threefivearchive/
what other 3.5 channels are there?? i must know
Yeah, 3.5e channels are hard to find, I'd like to know as well.
The best part of D&D 3.5 is that it is the parent of Pathfinder 1e and Pathfinder 1e is compatible with its source. Pathfinder's contribution is that it makes the skill rank distribution part easier (on character creation and leveling), makes it easier to multiclass your character, offers another awesome campaign setting, and balances some classes a bit better. Either way the options expand immensely, if you can't find D&D 3.5 books you can still find Pathfinder 1e books and you'd still be playing on the 3.5 system.
You have a point. I really should try and find a Pathfinder 1E game at some point.
You know what you should absolutely take from Pathfinder for 3.5? Grab the new rules for Wildshapes and Polymorphs. No longer can you just disregard physical stats and have an absurdly wide toolbox because no matter what you pick, you won't have too many crazy abilities and splitting it up in several spells adds some much needed scaling. I also vastly prefer the new Alter Self, giving all kinds of monsters a "take on a human appearance" option.
I have almost every Pathfinder book on PDF and have thought of playing it but I have one problem. Why are there no prestige classes outside the core rule book and advanced players guide? I personally like how they tweaked the Assassin and the Arcane Archer. Is there a book I am missing?
Seems to me that a lot of folks under 30 or 35 are put off by the amount of arithmetic required by the d20 system. Me, I was born in 1973. We had to show our homework & couldn’t rely on the ‘puter for everything. At least not until we were in our 20s. And I was always kind of a whiz at tricky figures.
Given my druthers I’d use the Hero system for most campaigns outside of high fantasy-Such an underrated an versatile system, btw. For a high-fantasy one-shot I might choose choose 2e (to keep it simple). For a longer campaign it’s gotta be 3.5/3.75e (AKA Pathfinder) for me. Also, speaking as an old Star Wars fan (Make mine EU/Legends, baby!) I’m also rather fond of both the old WEG & WotC’s old SWRPG.
If I was going for something more purely atmospheric & RP heavy maybe I’d dig my my old copy of Vampire: The Masquerade or the Amber RPG. And if I wanted to get wasted with some friends & just do something fun & stupid I’m rolling with Paranoia.
I really have no interest in 4e, 5e or Pathfinder 2e. I’m also kind broke and don’t have as so much disposable income these days & I’m not really up for investing in a whole new system or three. (I do have a ton of respect for Paizo as a company, though. I cannot say the same for WotC in its current incarnation.)
Psionics, playable monsters, spell like abilities, NOT TO MENTION BEING ABLE TO PROGRESS PAst LVL 20! Not having to deal with newer nerfed versions of monsters, templates, 3.5 seriously trumps 5 in almost every way. Although I would use advantage and disadvantage as a house rule in 3.5 since that simplifies so much.
I agree. 3.5 is much better than 5E. I also agree that advantage is a pretty nice thing, although it does exist in 3.5, just not by that name, and only as a benefit of a handful of feats. 3.5 really is the best though, that's kind of why my channel is largely dedicated to it.
The problem with advantage and disadvantage is it's a big difference and there is no granularity to it. It's like playing 3.5e but every adjustment is either +10, +0, or -10.
@@fred_derf Yes, exactly. And it's unstackable. It's very annoying that having two or three things that give advantage isn't any better than one. Why not let you roll 3 dice? And one disadvantage cancels out all instances of advantage...WHY? My DM refuses to play with house rules, so I'm constantly having to deal with the distraction of "this is stupid for no reason," which breaks the immersion for me.
Never stopped m8
Same. 3.5 is the best.
Mitch I have a question. IN regards to ADnD 2e, have you checked out the three Player's Options books? Those offer additional customisation for classes.
I have not. I honestly don't really know much about ADnD 2E at all except for stuff I've heard about in my comments and stuff. It's something I would like to check out at some point though.
I had recently just made a gnome time mage called Nir Eldamo which apparently is gnome for ‘no time’
Can’t wait to use him
3.5 all the way
That sounds awesome! I hope you have fun.
Prestige classes are so cool
They really are.
Great video!
Thank you.
I personally prefer playing Pathfinder 1st Edition with a score of material imported from 3.5, since they are mostly compatible. Many of the most problematic rules have been adjusted or reworked and new other great rules have been added.
I really love archetypes, since they remind me of the kits from AD&D 2nd Edition and are far better than prestige classes to add variety to a class, since you do not have to multiclass. Also, building encounters is really, really easy in PF1, unlike what happens in 3.5.
That sounds cool. I might have to play Pathfinder again, but with a group that will actually teach me the differences, and not make me learn the hard way.
@@MitchBurns Well, most of the biggest differences are in classes, in maneuvers, in the Polymorph subschool of spells, and level bonuses. There are also a ton of small changes, though, such as single feats or spells or how negative levels or poisons work. The latters may be the most problematic and they require some deeper reading. The bonus progression of prestige classes is also different and is the main change you have to check to convert the 3.5 ones.
Also, many 3.5 things in PF1 are different things. For example, the Hexblade class is an archetype of the magus, while the samurai class is a variant of the cavalier. In my opinion they are both far, far better than the originals.
I also love using the Pathfinder 1st Ed Core Rulebook with many of the 3.5 expansion books like Magic of Incarnum, Book of Nine Swords and Expanded Psionics Handbook.
@@mrcatchingup There is a better version of the 3.5 psionics rules, published for Pathfinder 1e by Dreamscarred Press and titled Ultimate Psionics. If you like to use those rules in your PF games, you should definitely give that book a look.
I've literally played every edition of D&D from OD&D, Basic to Ad&D and everything else. 3. and 3.5. I spent more time with 3.5 than any other edition. That being said, I was relieved when 5e came out. It was so much quicker/easier to roll up a new character and jump into the game. 3.5 took at a minimum an hour or more to design a 1st level character and that was just using the material in the core rule books. I do miss it kinda but I am really loving 5e currently.
I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that. I could roll up a 3.5 character in about 5 minutes if I wanted. I usually spend far longer however because I really want to make him just right. That's actually kind of the issue I have with 5E. When I make a character I feel so limited that I can't make the character I want, and am just forced into this little box.
5e sucks so bad. Hardly any uniqueness, little to no customization, multi classing is almost worthless. Yeah 5e is so basic.
as a 5e player this really didn't give me much info on what's actually different other than "5e is easier"
I get that it's less customizable but I still don't really know how exactly
I don't have any friends who play 3.5, hell I barely have friends who play 5e. sad
I know the feeling of having a hard time finding a group. As for the differences, there are hundreds of prestige classes to choose from once you hit around level 6. You can also multiclass a lot and get a lot of benefits from taking a dip in a class or prestige class here, and another one there. Plus you have way more magic items to choose from, and don't have any hard limits in how many you can pick, really just soft ones limited by your wallet and logistics of swapping weapons and armor. It's really night and day.
@@MitchBurns the hundreds of prestige classes sounds mega interesting. I'm not unhappy with the level of customization in 5e but I never say no to more.
the magic item limit is already something we lifted in our session as it really didn't add anything to player enjoyment being limited on the variety of magic items, and it really made the game a ton more fun with having a bunch of a bit more silly magic items along in the mix
in addition to what's been said in the video and this reply, 3.5 also massively encourages the acquisition of feats (really 5e discourages it). In 5e, you get ASIs every 4 levels *on a per-class basis* (which discourages multiclassing) and you can trade ASIs for feats. Almost everyone just takes ASIs unless they're doing a specific build that needs feats, because ASIs are usually better and always easieer to manage, plus D&D beyond only has two feats. In 3.5, you get ASIs every 4 total levels, and feats every 3 levels; they're completely separate. Every single character has feats. The SRD has like 40 different feats for free, and there's countless others in sourcebooks. Plus, feats are much stronger and more impactful to the character in 3.5.
Hey from France, Mitch ! Love your chanel a lot ! Love the fact that 3.5 is not dead ! Could you please make a video about why D&D3.5 is more lethal than 5e and how to make 3.5 even more lethal?
Thank you. That's a good idea. I will try and keep that in mind. I'm doing my best to keep 3.5 alive.
I used to play some 3.0 and 3.5 a long time ago. I got myself the 3.5 core rulebooks today in pretty much mint condition.
Sadly I missed out on a different auction for 9 of the books 😐
Nice. I'm a little jealous on that. I'm still working on building my collection.
Hi there! I've been a 5e DM for quite a few years now. I brought Pathfinder 2e about a year ago and didn't really like it. I thought me and one of my play groups could give 3.5 a try so I brought the three core rulebooks and am currently about half way through reading the PHB. I have a question. When it says at 20th level a fighter gains +20 to their first attack, +15 to the second, etc., they add their Strength mod to that right? If so, a Fighter could attack with +25 (or more) to their attack (and that's without a dice roll), but most characters AC would be 20 or lower (unless they have a shield). Is there a rule I'm missing that scales a character's AC higher as their level increases?
That's the only thing I've disliked so far! For the most part I think 3.5 is a more complex system which makes it better for experienced players, but not for new players. 5e did alot to make D&D more accessible to people who don't play RPGs I think.
You are correct about a fighter's attack rolls yes. AC can scale in quite a few ways though. This is done with various types of armor. It is actually quite easy to get an AC over 20 even at first level. AC is 10 + DEX + Shield + Armor + Nat Armor + Deflection + Dodge. Lots of ways to increase it. It is very possible to get an AC of like 40 or even 60 by 20th level. Oh, also, magic items can get the fighter's attack up even more, so it would be +20 + STR + 5 from a magic weapon + any feats or anything + Roll. So there are a lot of things that scale. It's actually pretty rare to see an AC under 20 at even mid levels, unless they are maybe a caster, or a very reckless attacker. I mean a fighter wearing a +5 full plate would have a 23 or 24 AC depending on if they have a +1 DEX or not, and that's without any of the other bonuses they are likely to have from a shield, and a +5 Natural armor item, and a +5 ring of protection, and who knows what else. So yes, AC does scale. It is a very complex and robust game.
@@MitchBurns Thank you for clearing that up!
I agree. The intense customization is super fun
It really is.
First one-shot was 5e. Right after that I started playing a 3.5e campaign with a great DM. There's definitely more thought going into building the character, so if you have the time to do so, it's great. I feel like 5e will be better for those with less time on their hands, but it probably varies per person. I'm a little Kobold rogue/swashbuckler. The DM has implemented choice of martial maneuvers and stances from one discipline from the Tome of Battle, to improve the martial classes. My rogue gets to choose from the Shadow Hand discipline. We're only level 3 right now, but it's been fun so far!
That's awesome! I'm glad you are having fun! That's the most important part.
My players and I have sat down and come up with a great workaround. We play 3.5 by 5e rules. All the character stuff of 3.5, but the rules we run is 5e.
Yes 3.5 has a lot more customization than 5e. I play in a 3.5 campaign and still run one. I also am in a 5e campaign, we like to mix it up.
Yeah. 5E isn't bad, but 3.5 is better. Mixing it up can be fun.
I recently started 3.5e! I've been finding the rules of 5e either a bit vague when playing.
They kind of are yeah. 3.5 is much more specific, which is something I really like.
The thumbnail is awesome 😂😂😂
Thank you. I'm glad you like it. I was really proud of it.
started on 5e. and now im working my way into learning 3.5
sadly its so hard to find an online group that is playing 3.5. so i am having issues getting a game going so i can learn how to play it. and eventually. how to dm it. already starting my cataloguing and sorting so come me being ready to start dming it i can start changing all my 5e monsters and npcs into 3.5 ones. and my 5e subclasses into prestige classes.
That's awesome that you are trying to learn 3.5. I've been hearing it's hard to find a game a lot lately. I do have a second in my discord where you can look. I can see what I can do about trying to organize something. My channel is full of resources to help you learn the game.
@@MitchBurns yah it is hard to find a game. its why i plan to start running 3.5 games myself. once i learn the system. thankfully ive found a one shot and campaign i can play in to learn so i should be fine though I for sure am watching your channel
You oughta make videos on the spells and fun builds and adventure paths you want to. :)
That's not a terrible idea. Spells is a tricky one with length though. I'll have to think about it. I appreciate the idea though. They really do help.
@@MitchBurns Glad you think so! By all means.
I'm glad it helps :) Some stand out examples would be teleportation circle, teleport, fireball, charm person, hold person, and length wouldn't necessarily be an issue because people love long discussions of that sort of thing :)
My favorite part of 3.5 was all the different subsystems. Actual psionics, invocations got started in 3.5, incarnum, and of course my personal favorite, Tome of Battle. Which if I had to describe it to 5e players, I’d describe it as battlemaster fighters if they were fully fleshed out.
They did add a lot with all the splat books. It really makes for a dynamic game.
Psionics and invocations existed in 1st edition....
@@DRourk, writes _"Psionics and invocations existed in 1st edition...."_
No they didn't, that didn't come out until AD&D.
@@fred_derf 1st edition is AD&D kid.
Learn yourself the history of what you're talking about, please.
@@DRourk The first edition is just titled _Dungeons & Dragons,_ and was released in 1974.
The second edition is the _Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set,_ and was released in July 1977.
AD&D is the third edition and was released in three separate pieces, the _Monster Manual_ in Dec. 1977, the _Players Handbook_ in June 1978, and the _Dungeon Masters Guide_ in1979 (I couldn't find the month).
And that doesn't count _Chain Mail_ which could arguably be called the first edition, but is more commonly considered a precursor and not part of the Dungeons & Dragons family.
I agree with you, but I want to say you could also point out that DMs should think about running 3.5.
Making magic items is not just coming up with an idea but a full system that shows the cost.
Tweaking monsters in the MM or making new ones has really good explanations and helps you understand the challenge rating.
Managing XP is easy. Full descriptions of conditions and how to implement everything are so much better.
I am currently running a 3.5 game and a 5e game and 3.5 makes it so much easier for me to make everything the way I want.
That's a very good point. I forgot about that. Thank you.
I am a fan of all dnd, but 3.5 is my favorite. Thanks for all the reviews. Keep it up.
You have good taste. 3.5 really is the best. Thank you for the support too!
I'm a long time 5e player going to start 3.5 soon. I feel like I've played out 5e. I haven't played all the classes but I could roll characters up in my sleep. I know what combos are good as far as feats and spells and class abilities. Someone described 3.5 as "crunchier". I'm looking forward to it
I suspect you will enjoy it a lot. It's a lot harder to learn that 5E, but there is just so much you can do. If you need any help figuring it out, this community is always ready to help new players learn the game. Best of luck in your 3.5 gaming.
played every edition from the basic box onward and many other ttrpgs as well and truly 3.5 is the best ttrpg ever made so far
I couldn't agree more. I'm a huge fan. I'm doing all I can to try and get more people into it.
I may be biased cause was my first experience with dnd, but 3.5 will always be my favourite role playing game, even outside the d20 system. Its just... the right amount of rules for the nerdiest hobby there could ever be.
I couldn't agree more.
I just bought a print on demand copy of the 3.5 player's handbook on the DM's Guild website.
yep, 3.5 is soooo much better. 5e is basically a dumbed down version of D&D. It's easier to play but less ability to customize your characters. Also, many of the best spells are gone in 5e.
I agree. 3.5 is so much better than 5E.
I understand your point but to me, games like 3.5 or Pathfinder are what I dislike about RPGs. It feel like you cannot do anything unless there is a rule saying so in one of the dozens of rulebooks. I used to play BECMI and 1st edition AD&D in the 1980s and it was all about what we'd imagine. the DM would rule if something was or wasn't ok. We only played theater of the mind style. when 2nd edition came in and TSR started to get out all the supplements for classes and races, at first, we enjoyed the possibilities it opened up but then, we found out we would.spend.more time looking out for rules than actually playing the game. I stillplay Pathfinder 1st ed. With a group of friends who are still hooked on it but to me, 5e is more of a story telling game. Its rules are.less constrictive and more constructive. It opens.doors and allows you to play anything without trying to be a wannabe tactical simulator or a faux videogame (I'm looking at you 4.0!) And in the end, D&D, to me is more about telling stories than moving tokens on a grid to find an angle to throw that damn lightning bolt on the gnoll chieftain hidden behind a table..
I hear what you are saying, but I'll have to agree to disagree. 5E is just so limiting to me, and 3.5 has so many more possibilities. There are also plenty of options to create your own homebrew stuff as well. I also really can't stand combat using theater of the mind. If I make a plan to do something and he tells me no because the field looks different in his mind than it does mine, then I'll be a bit upset. To me combat is a tactics game. So I'll have to agree to disagree with you.
@@MitchBurns And that is why it is so great that our hobby keeps on giving to all kinds of players be it through the official WOTC way or through the numerous homebrews, the OSR clones or the availability of previously released material online. We are living in a golden age of role playing games.
You forgot to mention that it is largely compatible with Pathfinder 1e which gives you a crazy amount of content. Either way... still my favorite version.
That is very true, and yeah, 3.5 is the best. It's why this channel is all about 3.5.
Oh! Subscribed!@@MitchBurns
You can get all the core books in print through dms guild.
I was not aware of that. That's really cool though.
5e caps at 20th level. No more character progression. 3.5 has no cap. I've created my own EX chart up to level 60. Plus, has anybody else heard about gestalt characters? It's almost like dual classing but you don't level one class and then the other. You take the best features of each class and they level up at the same time. So much fun
That is very true. I've made charts up to level 40, and I even included all the fringe cases of fighting something way higher or lower level than you as well. I have very much heard of gestalt. I haven't played it, but I have heard of it, and it does seem pretty fun, and very overpowered.
I was just looking up on TH-cam about D&D3.5 and this was one of the first posts I saw. I like the rules of D&D3.5 as the peak of Dungeons and Dragons. Also I dont like 5e because it lack these details..
Its because of the character options and growth. In D&D3.5 characters improve every time they gain a character level. Base Attack Bonus improves, Saving Throws rise, you gain Skill Points to raise your Skill Ranks, there are more spell slots, actual spells improve as your character does, you unlock new tiers of spells, you can pick different classes.
There are huge lists of customizable traits for magical equipment. Items arent that rare and you can even Craft them yourself.
You can have yoru own mini-party of Cohorts and Followers.
That is very true. 5E has a lot of that, just to a much lesser extent. I do like 5E, but I like 3.5 a lot more.
3.5 best edition ever. thanks. ++ :D
It really is. Thank you for watching. I have hundreds of videos on 3.5 if you want to check them out.
My favorite barb was goliath fighter barb frenzy
Nice! Those are fun! They are a bit of a pain, what with the attacking their friends after combat a lot of the time, but they are still super fun. The one in our game nearly went on a rampage in the middle of town because he decided to punch some ice. He also ended up dying to calm emotions. It was quite the fun time.
Our group has been playing D20 almost since it came out and we love Pathfinder 1e. We played 2ed before that, but none of us had any interest in 4th and we didn't even know when 5e was a thing until a couple years ago.
Dang. That's impressive to have been playing so long. It's a little impressive to have not known about 5E for so long too since it's kind of everywhere these days. I always love to hear from fellow TTRPG fans though.
@@MitchBurns I do love the 'renaissance', heh, that 5E has brought to D&D but we're old and out of the loop 😄
OMG yes!!!! love 3.5 char creation.
Same. 3.5 really is the best. It's why I cover it.
Finally I've found some good 3.5 content
Welcome to the channel. I've been making videos for a quite a few years now, and have really been trying hard to expand my audience the last couple years now. I hope you enjoy your time here.
Your content is good, but the frequency and amount of zoom on your jump cuts is very distracting.
I appreciate that. I'm still learning to edit. I'll try and keep that in mind.
in addition to what's been said in the video, 3.5 also massively encourages the acquisition of feats (really 5e discourages it). In 5e, you get ASIs every 4 levels on a per-class basis (which discourages multiclassing) and you can trade ASIs for feats. Almost everyone just takes ASIs unless they're doing a specific build that needs feats, because ASIs are usually better and always easieer to manage, plus D&D beyond only has two feats. In 3.5, you get ASIs every 4 total levels, and feats every 3 levels; they're completely separate. Every single character has feats. The SRD has like 40 different feats for free, and there's countless others in sourcebooks. Plus, feats are much stronger and more impactful to the character in 3.5.
This is very true. Feats are a major part of a build in 3.5. For fighters it's really the only thing they get. I do really like how ASIs and feats are separate in 3.5, and not just smashed into one thing like in 5E. 5E does also have some weaker feats that give 1 ASI instead of 2, but still. I agree 3.5 is just much better.
Making players choose between an ASI and a feat every 4 levels is a great example of the many obvious bad decisions in 5e. I used to look forward to feats, but now every time there's the unpleasant feeling of having to choose between two entirely-not-equivalent things every 4 levels. Whichever I choose, it always feels like a missed opportunity. It makes the game objectively worse, and it's completely unnecessary. Things worked fine before.
In a nutshell...
3.5e is from a time where computer games were trying to be more like TTRPGs.
5e is from a time where D&D is trying to be more like a computer game.
I wouldn't be surprised in 6e / One / 5.5e (what ever it's called) includes Spawn Points.
That wouldn't surprise me too much either. Hasbro is trying to merge the two into one. I see the appeal of it, but I also see a lot of issues with it. One of my biggest issues is that it doesn't include any support for 3.5. 3.5 is largely stuck in the late 2000's sadly. There are some fan made stuff for 3.5 that I know of though. Like the detailed character sheet that I use. The creators are actually well into the development of a newer and much better version for it too. Sadly tools like roll20 and others only cover the basics of 3.5, and don't integrate character sheets at all.
@@MitchBurns, writes _" There are some fan made stuff for 3.5 that I know of though. Like the detailed character sheet that I use."_
Do you have a link to it? I'm using the SSA-X2 sheet (and it's great) but it hasn't been updated in over 20 years.
_"Sadly tools like roll20 and others only cover the basics of 3.5, and don't integrate character sheets at all."_
From what I understand (haven't tried it) Foundry has 3.5e support as a plugin.
Staying with homebrew 3.5 edition (with a mix of stuff from the other editions). 😉
Nice. That's the way to do it. You have good taste.
Exactly, what's the point of imagination if you have rules, where's the open world in that.
Personally I find rules give the world structure, and keep everyone on the same page about things.
My party started with 2nd edition and by the time we got to 3.5 we were smiten
In 5e you beginn as a nobody and dying as a nobody.
In 3.5 you beginn as a nobody but you finish by killing God's, devil's, legendary monster's or you begame a god.
Sounds about right. It's a big part of why I love it so much.
I grew up with 3.5 and have like 70-80% of the books for it. I appreciate 5e too but 3.5 has huge nostalgia value for me and I love the vast array of options and the aesthetic of the actual books.
Same. You have good taste. 5E is fine, but it's just not enough for me after having played 3.5. That's why this channel is all about 3.5.
@@MitchBurns Thanks, always cool to see 3.5 content
I started with 5e, but by the gods is 3.5e a joy to play as a player.
I love Prestige Classes so god damn much.
5e is fine and fun, but the level of player facing options in 3.5e is just unparalleled. Then there's pathfinder.
I can't imagine what GMing 3.5e is like, however. I do imagine that monsters being built like PCs helps at least a little.
Yeah, DMing 3.5 can be a real challenge, but it really depends to be honest. DMs can limit player choices in lots of ways to make things easier for themselves, or they can let them go crazy. The game is super customizable like that.
I bought the 5e books for my children, I wanted something simpler for them to begin with, it is awesome for that. I'll switch to my good old 3.5 books once they've more experience with 5e and will be able to enjoy 3.5 at its fullest.
That sounds like the way to do it. 5E is great for beginners, but it's nice to have something more advanced for more advanced players.
@MitchBurns yes, that's what I thought, but I'll probably check for Pathfinder books instead of 3.5 as I've only the master and player book for 3.0 and the draconimicon left. Finding back all the bestiaries as books is very hard and expensive, I prefer having a book than a pdf, even if I've all the 3.5 as pdf. I know that the first version of Pathfinder, you could use their books with a 3.5 campaign, I hope it is still compatible.
As someone who loves playing spellcasters, 5e kind of ruined them for me. 3.5 was amazing, and I still play that in so far as I can, but I have some friends who have recently become interested in D&D and they like 5e, so I play with them too in 5e.
Yeah, I get that. 5E isn't terrible, but I really prefer 3.5 as well. Finding games came be hard. I'm not sure I would be able to find an in person game if I tried. Personally I could find online games fairly easy, but I also run this channel, which helps me a lot with that one. I do have a room for finding online 3.5 games in my discord though.
You have to try Pathfinder 1E. I love the artwork for 3.5 books better, but everything else is better in Pathfinder, and it is very similar.
I would love to some day if I ever find a game.
Pathfinder (or 3.75 if you prefer) - is the system you switch to after you get tired of every character having to pull a bunch of jank-ass bull-crap in order to get early entry into the seven different prestige classes they're building their glass cannon from. :D
But Pathfinder suffers from a generational problems. I.e. splatbooks from later generations tend to make broad swathes of material from earlier splatbooks bad or trap-options.
E.g. if your fantasy is to play 'horse-guy' (read as: some kind of mounted combatant), then generation 1 horse-guy is going to be worse than gen 2 horse-guy, and gen 3 is going to have a whole new base class which has one archetype which is better at horse-guy than gen 1 & 2 combined and on top of all that that's not even the main thing they do, it's just a sideline.
It's ... brutal.
(But TBF 3.5 has a similar problem - i.e. if you're playing with Tome of Battle then other martial classes are straight up trap options)
Which saddens me is that bg3 is 5e instead of 3.5
Yeah, sadly Wizards has pretty much abandoned 3.5 for 5E, which kind of sucks.
3.5 is still my favorite version of D&D. A close second is Pathfinder 1E. Haven't played the 2nd edition yet.
I agree with you about 3.5. I haven't played too much pathfinder. For me I'd say my second favorite TTRPG would be GURPS 4E. If you want more D&D 3.5 content I got you covered on that one.
They sell PODs at drivethrurpg
I've heard about this yeah. Do they sell actual hardcover books though? I've bought most of my books secondhand, with the exception of a handful I managed to buy firsthand back when they were still being printed.
@@MitchBurns they sell hardcover PODs but not regular reprints, they're the same quality as most other hardcover things you'd buy at drivethrurpg
The depth of 3.5 books and options is an untapped well that 5th edition abandoned. They’ve attempted to drip feed it back into the content, but the amount of options in 3.5 still dwarfs 5th. You can apply all the little niceties of 5th edition with anything from Unearthed Arcana. Unearthed Arcana from 3.5 was the book that made me hate 4th edition and prove further the frustrations with the money grab that 5th edition is. People talk about the ease and accessibility of 5e vs 3.5. That means nothing with Unearthed Arcana and other minor house rules. 5e books remove monster lore, add arbitrary world/god lore. 5e books over all are genuinely lacking a serious amount of information around their own lore. I think a huge reason of 5e’s popularity and uprise was almost entirely because of Covid lockdowns. That if we were running a 3.5 world of text releases, 3.5 would have had a surge in popularity.
I agree 3.5 gives much more options than 5E. I'm not sure I really agree the lockdowns had much to do with the growth of 5E. 5E was massive long before the lockdowns, and from what I saw, the lockdowns really hurt TTRPGs as a whole. It's become much harder to find in person groups, and pushed everyone online, which really isn't the same. I would say that the lockdowns may very well be a reason for the direction they are trying to take the new One DND in though. It's not a direction I really like either.
I cut my teeth on 3.5 (but was too late for OG 3rd edition). Gotta say, I do prefer Pathfinder 1e and 2e over D&D. Just my personal preference, and obvious PF2e is a very different game in some of the same ways that 5e is different. At the end of the day, literally all of them are fun to play. I've even heard good things about 4th Edition, though I haven't played it since launch day.
I did as well. This was my first ever TTRPG. I haven't much cared for pathfinder in my experience, but 5E was just to dull for me. It was still fun, just felt like it was missing something.
I still have my collection of 3.5 books
That's awesome! Me too. I'm actually still working on building my collection. They are super expensive now though.
3.5 is the modern Advanced D&D and 5e is the modern Basic D&D
I haven't played those unfortunately, but it sounds like you are saying they took a step backwards with 5E, which I would have to agree with.
Began playing 3e but it was 3.5e that made me fall in love with D&D.
4e is a boring mess of tactical choices and starved character customization.
5e is fun and easy, perfect as an introduction to D&D and eventually to glorious 3.5e.
It was in 3.5e one of my old friends made a rogue that could hide from everything but see nothing. One rolled a druid that was obsessed with polymorph and shapeshifting, who tried to trip strong foes. One rolled a wizard obsessed with knowledge, exploration and experimentation, pretty typical for a wizard but his imagination was unparalleled. Everyone made memorable characters in the group and together they created a perpetual mess for the world.
Best group I've ever had, and it was all realized on the endless canvas of 3.5.
I love that. I still play 3.5. I'll join a 5E game if it comes up, but 3.5 is where my heart is. GURPS 4E is also pretty solid and I wouldn't miss a chance to play that. I'm also looking to check out other systems as well.
@@MitchBurns Mutant, World of Darkness (Demon, Werewolf, Vampire: The Masquerade, Mage the Awakening), and Eon (A Swedish TTRPG with deep combat simulation) are all awesome ttrpgs. The ttrpg we played the most next to D&D was Mage the Awakening, which to me felt a lot like inhabiting the world of the X-files. In which the very same 3.5e group created another set of thought out characters
All of the build crafting and optimization and options and numbers are actually why I *don't* enjoy 3.5.
The older I get, the less I enjoy flipping through hundreds or thousands of options to figure out what I want or need. And more often than not I feel like I've made bad choices that I'm being punished for.
I prefer making fewer choices that matter more.
Some of the 3.5 books (the player's handbook, monster manual, and dungeon master's guide, for sure) are available print on demand from Drive Thru Rpg/DM's guild, and a lot of the books are available as PDFs, so they're not completely out of reach!
To each their own. To me it's what I don't like about 5E. It just doesn't get my creative juices flowing. I'm aware of the PDFs. I'm not sure how legal those are, but they don't seem to be enforced at all since they are super easy to find.
I feel like every d20 since 3.5 has been watered down in some form or fashion, especially with like save or die spells, magic items, classes (especially the cleric, which is just better than its 5E or PF2E counterparts by A LOT). I just wish 3.5 had modern support. I also find that some recent d20 games really limit powerful options, in the name of making the game balanced, but in fact just altogether fail to fulfill the high fantasy instead, because they didn't balance powerful options, they either moved them to so late in the game that they aren't relevant, nerfed them into the ground, or got rid of them altogether.
I agree. I think 5E is a fine system, and I'm sure PF2 is as well, but they just aren't as good as 3.5 as far as I'm concerned.
Why I play 2E instead of 3/3 5.....
I haven't played 2E so I can't say for sure, but 3.5 is pretty awesome.
Well actually, you should give 1e AD&D or one of the OSR games a try instead!
I have wanted to try them.
5e relies more heavily on roleplay where 3.5 relies more on gameplay in my experience. 5e lays out a skill system that allows you to interact with your environment very easily and succinctly as long as the dm allows it.
Playing 5e as a fighter or Rogue become boring due to the fact that you have very little options as to what you can do outside of using particular feats to add to attacks, but with a flexible DM they would allow you to possibly do things like throwing dirt in the enemy's eyes or pushing an object down on them from the environment with very easy choice of skill that you would need to roll
3.5 allows extra customisation of skills and written abilities to increase specialization in combat, which can be a lot of fun, what does lend itself to slowing the game down quite a bit
I agree, but 3.5 will always be my favorite. 5E just feels to lacking to me.
Also martials are WAY cooler and stronger in 3.5 with Tome of Battle
God no. I played 3.5 and it was SOOO overcomplicated and we spent more time looking at the book for rules then playing. I quit D&D because of 3.5 and only came back during 5e. I hate 5e and now I have moved to the OSR and Old School Essentials. Much better.
If you say so. 3.5 is way better than 5E if you ask me. It takes some learning sure, but it's well worth it. I'm sorry you had a bad experience.
3 words
TOME
OF
BATTLE
That is a pretty good book.
I can't get over how much less powerful some of the monsters have become, Liches and vampires just arnt as terrifying.
That's true, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that the game as a whole is a lot more flat in 5E. A level 20 character wouldn't own a level 1 half as hard in 5E as he would in 3.5.
3.5 monk can run at mach1
They can go even faster than that if you push into epic.
I would say that 3.5e is the best 'players' game (IMO), but not the best to DM a story in. Pretty much for all the reasons you gave.
I kind of agree, but you can use the 3.5 system to your advantage to really help immerse your players in your story.
D&D 3.5 is turning 20 this month. It's a shame WotC is in its current state, we could've gotten some great re-releases around this time if things were different.
That's true. Sadly they went in a different direction.
Wow. Now I feel old.
After looking at a lot of classes and prc, i would say that 3.5 triggers the same thing Pathfinder 2E does (even if 3.5 is better than PF2E imo) : the illusion of choice. Basically, sure, you have a tremendous amount of classes and prc in 3.5. And i'm not even counting third party content! Having said that... More than half of these classes and prc just suck unless they are played in a low fantasy setting (which is not bad per say but just so you know: a lot classes and prc in a pretty vanilla middle to high fantasy setting such as Faerun are gonna suck really badly! compared to vanilla classes). And i'm not even speaking about the issue opposing casters and purely martial classes...
There is some truth to that, but there are a lot that don't suck as well, or some that happen to be just what you need for a certain build. Having limits is part of the fun for me. The challenge of having to work around limits is enjoyable, and 3.5 provides just the right amount in my opinion.
@@MitchBurns I do agree with you, but when your PRC really really reaaaaaaally sucks, well : it really sucks! Plus, you have a tons which sadly really really suck. And again, having limits is fun, it's challenging indeed! Yet the disparity between those "limits" and classes and or PRC which do not have such is a huge gap, sometimes too huge. My point is: D&D 3.5 is a great system yet i would love to have a complete and definitive video on which classes and PRC really really suck.
I agree 100%. Allot of the classes across all of the extensions have low longevity in most of the modules. And allot of the races are handcapped when having to deal with horrendous level adjustment. I crave playing Ogre Mages or Janni but that level adjustment penalty is deadly if i taked them to Red Hand of Doom or Sunless Citadel.
Often do I see players go to the same race of choice. Either Warforged, Kobold, Goliath or just Human. Because of reliability. You give new players over a dozen hours of attention and they build crooked characters like Kensai/Sorcerer or Paladin/Ninja. And die in a few sessions for the joy of rerolling a Cavalier/Scout or an Order the Bow Initiate/Monk in something as difficult as Castle Ravenloft.
I dont know one person who has taken a Ninja or a Scout from level 1 to level 20 using most of the modules. But yet again, allot of these players dont really want combat or difficult combat. Allot of them are just there for the acting and socializing. So sure, a Samurai or Rogue isnt a bad choice if the goal isnt to reach level 20 but just have a fun conversation over some storytelling and acting.
Because you can use everything pathfinder have published, simple
It sort of works in reverse like that.
5e is for people that don't want there to be consequences to their actions. They want to play a game where they're guaranteed to win and guaranteed not to die regardless of how foolishly they play their character.
There is some truth to that. 3.5 does tend to be a lot more serious. At higher levels it becomes easier to revive the dead, but even then it's still not a trivial thing. The casters are at least going to be heavily annoyed at having to revive you for something dumb.
No play the red box
What do you mean the red box?
3.75=3.5+pathfinder 1e
Agreed.
Maybe im wrong but to me dnd 5e always seemed like "dnd for dummies". Sometimes its nice when you want to work with all the modern tools it has but ill always run 3.5 or pathfinder 1e
I couldn't agree more. I do like 5E fine, but 3.5 is just so much better.
3.5 is the advanced version of the modern era, and 5e is the basic.
I would agree.
Not really selling it mate...
To each their own.
I spent many years playing 3.x DnD, basically as soon as it was released our group switched from 2nd edition. I immediately loved the system and got heavily involved in writing content for 3.5 Forgotten Realms. The main issues I see with it are that it’s a power gamers paradise if the DM uses all the books. Also the investment of time makes character creation for new players a slog. People lose interest.
I have since started playing old school Essentials and AD&D 1st edition and they present different challenges for players. Survival.
Don’t get me wrong though, I still love 3.5 in many ways and incorporate some of the system into my OSE games. If I ran a 3.5 game today I would definitely limit the options for Prestige classes and classes in general. I once had a player roll up some kind of kobold artificer/magic user combo strictly for the invincibility factor and at that point I realized, that’s not the kind of game I want to run.
That's awesome. It being a power gamer's paradise isn't necessarily a problem either. It's one of the things I love about it to be honest, although you do have to be carefully with it. Always be wary of kobolds *cough* Pun Pun *cough.* It is certainly a game system that can be difficult for new players to get into as well.
Retro is best
I agree.
Customization at the expense of reasonable balance. 3.5e is an intrinsically broken system, has been pretty much is 3.0e. PF1e didn't inprove on this. I am sorry, but broken powerful characters makes this DM very unhappy and when I mimic broken powerful NPC's for balance, my players get unhappy and battles just come down to who wins initiative. It also suffers from a confusing action economy. There are better options out there.
We all have our own opinions. Personally I enjoy it a lot, and power gaming is also something that I find incredibly fun. My only real issue is that as a DM having to make powerful NPC just to have them die in one session is an awful lot of work for not enough reward.
Personally I feel that "Balance" is a fairy tale. Many years playing many systems and 'Balance' has forever been a elusive beast within any of them. The thing that seems to create 'Happy games' is being "Fair". What the GM can do, the players can as well and vice-versa. Whe the GM can simply "Do magic" and the players roll dice leads to boredom and discontent.
Agreed. Balance doesn't really exist. These aren't laws of physics, they're board games designed by usually more than one human. There's always gonna be flaws. @@peebothulhu8768
I prefer OSR games, but after some investigation I did several years ago, I have to say that the claims that 3.5e is "broken" or "imbalanced" are false. It's just, honestly, a game for a very specific slice of the population. But "D&D" is equal to "RPG" much like how "Super Mario" is equal to "videogames," so it's expected to be an appeals-to-everyone product. That assumption is behind the moves in design since 5e was being planned.
3.5e is balanced, but only if you play it (and the DM runs it) as-written. 3.5e is built like a delicate swiss watch - intricate, smooth, with great attention to detail... and incredibly easy to damage if you monkey around with the internals even slightly. The worst thing 3.5e does is inform the person reading the books that they don't need to read everything, and don't need to read it in order. The second worst thing, which admittedly isn't Wizards' fault, is that the d20 SRD has been used as a learning tool when it express purpose is actually as a reference for third party publishers. That's why it omits heaps of context, examples, and DM rules that are required to run and play the game coherently - WotC intended for you to still need the books to play.
I'll outline one example here. I apologize for this being long but 3.5e's rules interweave to where it takes a bit.
Magic items, RAW in the DMG, must primarily be found or crafted. No "magic item shops" exist, and the DMG clearly states that the only NPCs that craft magic items for sale are wizards. Not clerics, not druids. MAYBE you could make a case for sorcerers as they fulfill a similar role.
So, just find a wizard NPC right? Well... Magic items cost XP to craft, so you aren't likely to get an NPC wizard to burn his hard-earned XP crafting you items without a sufficient trade either, and that relies on him even having the required spells AND feats to craft what you want (or being open to even talk) in the first place!
That means either relying on found items - and if we consult the DMG again, these are _primarily_ supposed to be randomly-determined - Or having a party spellcaster craft them.
For a wizard, that means burning those precious free-from-leveling-up spells on those needed to craft items, taking item creation feats instead of bonus metamagic, hunting wizards for their spellbooks to gain more spells, and burning XP.
For a cleric or druid you don't have the problem of spell access, but you DO have limitations based on alignment and/or deity, very few feats to waste on item creation, and once more, the problem of XP-burning. Sorcerers have it the hardest of all.
A caster will be levels behind if outfitting the party sufficiently, forced into taking spells that make what the party needs rather than optimizing their list, and so on.
This is simply a single rule that massively impacts game balance in favor of non-casters. That's not even touching things like the role of alignment being physical energy just as fire and electricity are, encumbrance and various other rules making dumpstatting strength a poor idea, the spellbook rules being (ha) both bookkeeping and an achilles heel for wizards thanks to environmental hazards and item damage...
PS: PF1e didn't "fix 3.5e", it really just codified a lot of the ways people broke it and broke more things due to the sloppy find-replace job. If you try to run PF1e RAW, it doesn't actually work properly.
@@Aubreykun This falls under the meme. "Tell me you haven't DM'd 3.5e without actually telling me you haven't DM's 3.5e." There are way too many cheesy builds even when sticking with RAW. Yes, you could make things worse by removing the otherwise arbitrary XP restrictions for magic item creation, but I wouldn't do that and I still note it as a largely broken system.
5E has absolutely no DM support. 3.5 gave you item pricing, a functional economy, the rules used to create and price magic items. Spell creation? 3.5 has it. 5E does not. My biggest gripe with 5e is how they flatly refuse to help DMs actually create or manage games. 3.5 gives you the tools 5e hides from you.
That is very true. It's something I had overlooked when making the video since I never actually DMed 5E. Looking at all the comments I've gotten about it, it's a big reason why I'm not sure I would want to DM 5E.
It was all downhill after 2nd edition....
I haven't played 2E, but I would like to someday. THACO does scare me a bit though.
@@MitchBurns Far too much was ever made about the roll To Hit Armor Class Zero. I and a great many others were able to grasp it at age 10. For over 20 years many people were able to grasp this simple concept. It's simple math. The whole THACO being hard to grasp thing was 100% made up as a marketing tool for 3rd edition. Just about no one ever complained about it, because it made sense.
D&D begat AD&D, which was an improvement. AD&D begat 2nd edition, which was 99% still first edition, just without boobies and demons (TSR effectively just repackaged it in response to negative publicity and concerns raised about nudity in the books and satanism.)
From 1977-2000 AD&D (1st and 2nd edition really are 99% the same rules) ruled, and there was no cry for a 3rd edition (there hadn't been for a 2nd, and again 2nd was fully compatible with 1st). But TSR had been bought out by Wizards of the Coast. A company that made it's money repackaging and making older stuff obsolete. So, we got 3rd edition, and then more. (3.5 was a step up from 3.0 as it added back in a lot that had been removed, but it was still a step down from 1st/2nd). If the first two editions never went out of print I'd wager 3.5 and beyond would never have caught on (3.0 did not catch on, but by the time 3.5 came out the older editions were near impossible to find). Why? Because they aren't any better.
It's just that most don't even know 1st/2nd anymore, as like you, they hadn't ever been introduced to it, and the stupid THAC0 smear on 1st/2nd stuck. When really, any kid without a major mental issue with math can grasp the math of it in less than a minute, and the concept in not much longer than that.
Wizards wont do anything about the lack of 3.5 printed books because then people might find them, read them, and then realize they don't have to settle for a half baked rule set and start playing good games instead of braindead 5e
There is some truth to that. They do very much want to move on. I think with enough pressure they might make more, but probably not.
I don't disagree, but I think you're taking the wrong approach. Instead of telling people what's good about 3.5, frontload all of the stupid, annoying shit that makes up the lion's share of 5e, and say that 3.5 doesn't have any of that stuff. 5e is basically "What if 3.5 but stupid?"
There's even a history behind it. 3.5 was designed to be the perfect iteration of Dungeons & Dragons (mostly Advanced D&D), that fixed every problem with the game and optimized it in the best possible way. The problem is that...this is something that you can do. Personal tastes vary, but given a common set of assumptions, you CAN create the best possible version of a game. Once you've done this, you don't NEED to make any more editions. It's not like Magic, which is driven by novelty. Hasbro realized that if they wanted to sell more copies of the game, they needed to tap a new audience, which was--obviously--MMORPG players. Fourth edition was D&D for World of Warcraft players...and I don't have the time to explain all the things wrong with THAT idea. Since 4e was universally hated, Hasbro had to backpedal. They knew they couldn't just re-release 3.5, so they came up with a compromise between 3.5 and 4e...which is in effect 3.5 but stupid.
I've never understood why people who had been playing 3.5 for years would ever switch to a new and obvious system. Just doing the work of learning it ought to be enough of a disincentive. But seriously, to anyone familiar with 3.5, 5e is indisputably a downgrade. But my friends did it, and what makes playing an RPG enjoyable is the people that you play it with, not the rules. So I went along with it, and while the fun has been regularly marred by stupid shit that wasn't in 3.5, my friends make it fun anyway. They are the best playgroup I've had in 40 years of on and off playing this game.
By far the most annoying part is how the developers seem to have made no effort at all to balance the monsters and the encounters in their published adventures. Do they playtest at all? It certainly doesn't look like it. Most of it stems from the fact that monsters and NPCs use a whole different rule set from PCs, and I'd be interested to learn why they made such an obviously terrible decision.
When monsters have stuff like "legendary actions" that bypass the rules of the game, it ruins the encounter because it feels like cheating. If you want to have special monsters or encounters that stand out from the rest, this is not the way to do it. Instead of making your opponents seem badass, it DIMINISHES their impact, because it gives the impression that they have to cheat in order to be challenging. Plus it takes you out of the game. It calls attention to the rules in a way that breaks immersion. Half of them can't even be described in in-game terms. What does "take an extra turn" mean within the imagined rules of the game? Time travel? But they throw it on random NPCs without even attempting to rationalize it. I don't complain, but I always smile when one of the other players expresses the same thoughts that I'm having.
That's a good point. I'll likely be making a follow up video to this one soon taking into consideration all the feedback I've gotten. I do agree that legendary actions are kind of dumb. What would have been better would be like 1 per month abilities. These give an advantage to the bad guys, but in a way that at least feels somewhat fair.
3.5e = why you play an RPG. Infinite imagination and customization including combat. 4+ just go play your video game kids bc that's what they are. And then just homebrew anything cool from 5e like perception vs. spot\listen etc. Can't believe skills in 4+ are so nerfed. 80's - 90's games like Palladium used to be all about the skills.
I haven't played Palladium, but games did used to be harder back in the day, that's for sure.
@@MitchBurns They had some great licenses like Robotech\Macross, TMNT, and their Heroes Unlimited game was pure awesome. Problem was their skill system was percentage based - which at 98% means absurdity. And WAY too many attacks per turn. It does recreate anime well but wildly long turns - and an NPC boss could 1 shot a PC. Great times though.
You mentioned magic items being important but not the biggest thing about them which ruins 5E for me. MAGIC ITEMS HAVE PRICES! Not somewhere between $5,000 to $50,000! You are motivated to go out and be heroic so you can earn gold to get cooler stuff!
Also feats in 5E are a joke! 3.5 has so many awesome feats that you actually want to take. And getting feats every 3 levels instead of every 4 just makes such a big difference in how much you get to customize!
This is very true. The way magic items are done in 5E is even worse than I made it sound in the video. 3.5 really is just the best. It's why my channel is all about D&D 3.5, and not 5E like all the other D&D TH-camrs.
Pathfinder 1e all the way!.
I haven't played too much pathfinder 1E myself, but I have played a ton of D&D 3.5, and they are super similar.
Because it has more content customization..
Them locking in crummy sub classes and nerfing spells like wish and miracle.. which is why 4th failed heavy.. so they tried to copy the unearthed arcana one of the best books of 3.5 and it was still a nerfed version..
Plus the DM could use spells from 2nd edition like those sick crazy spells from the elven race which can be considered discoverable.
I hate boxed in systems that kill off character customization.
D&D worked into perfection and then ruined it all instead of moving into and beyond it.
You cant just show players all the great avenues then take them away and say, buy my prodect" ..i wont endorse trash. You better make things better or i wony participate..
They tricked me with the fake unearrhed arcana that was just complete trash..in 3rd E i could make anythimg with a bloodline of anything. I mean c'mon..
Sub grade new sysyems.. pfft..
I agree. I do think that 5E has it's place, as it's much easier for people to learn, but 3.5 is where it's at. It's the reason I still play it, and the reason this channel is all about 3.5 and I haven't moved to 5E like all the other D&D TH-camrs.
@@MitchBurns in all honesty mitch..Yhe D20 system only really consisted of die representing weapons and +1's that stacked per level and or die to represent class hp. There wasnt really anything challenge the mind other than the spells section and that pretty much been carried over through every D&D.
Too many classes were lost that were really fun and thats terrible. But i had the idea they were going this rout when they started messing with the Creation spell in in 3.0. Small changes to limit the player. Though I admit it got kinda loose woth the shaper mental compliment it was still pretty decent.
If player want little boxed sections for classes that have little requirement perhaps they should stuck to the card came munchkin?
Its not like its the mechwarrior system.. and that was just plum crazy for creation. Calculating all those billions in parts.
In fact when I think about ot the Sailor moon rpg was more difficult to manage then D20. XD