EARLY TRAIL BRAKING
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2022
- Wait, what? 3 tenths in one chicane?
Well, yeah. In low speed corners the differences in braking performance and cornering speed cause a much bigger gain or loss of time.
The lesson from this reel is: Try to notice when you release the brakes way before you start turning (Example above). That means you're braking too early and being under the limit of grip in the transition between braking and turning.
We generally give ourselves a little bit of headroom to prevent locking the tires on turn-in, but if you get too much in your comfort zone, you end up overdoing it and losing too much time.
On the second example (Below), I brake some meters later, gaining time since the initial braking all the way until turn in. Plus, because of the trail braking, I end up having more weight on the fronts and getting better rotation (hence why I used so much inside kerb on the first apex compared to the slower example).
If you wanna go faster, get out of your comfort zone and start looking for little changes in your driving.
Wanna know more about motorsports technique? Subscribe and watch the other shorts in my page 😉
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from the description:
Wait, what? 3 tenths in one chicane?
Well, yeah. In low speed corners the differences in braking performance and cornering speed cause a much bigger gain or loss of time.
The lesson from this reel is: Try to notice when you release the brakes way before you start turning (Example above). That means you're braking too early and being under the limit of grip in the transition between braking and turning.
We generally give ourselves a little bit of headroom to prevent locking the tires on turn-in, but if you get too much in your comfort zone, you end up overdoing it and losing too much time.
On the second example (Below), I brake some meters later, gaining time since the initial braking all the way until turn in. Plus, because of the trail braking, I end up having more weight on the fronts and getting better rotation (hence why I used so much inside kerb on the first apex compared to the slower example).
If you wanna go faster, get out of your comfort zone and start looking for little changes in your driving.
Wanna know more about motorsports technique? Subscribe and watch the other shorts in my page 😉
Mannnn you really only have bullshit content was hoping for something intelligent
Something I’d have never seen on mobile, thanks.
@@commodorejones8044just press three dots and description, its there mate
@@commodorejones8044 you can click the 3 dots on the top right > description
@@commodorejones8044hold the screen tap description
Bro cut an entire corner
Abusing track limits
You have to take as much as you can get away with, especially in GT cars. You should see V8 Supercars at Surfer's Paradise...😅
This is allowed in some gt3 and gt4 races. It is your risk of wrecking the car.
Is samir still alive guys?
Lap time not counting anymore or at least penalty
F1 drivers won't have their career if they go by your rules
It was a well balanced addition of things like, trail breaking, corner exiting speed and pushing the cornering to the legal limits by keeping only the 2 outter tires in the chicane while the inner tires where cutting the corner. This technique of cutting corners within the legal limits is what I am learning to do, even if I start breaking abit earlier to be able to star trail breaking a bit before entering the corner to be able to cut the corner and maximize my speed in my way out of the apex.
Balanced addition of 3 things mentioned would mean all 3 things have been done decently but if you do the trail braking part perfectly, the other 2 are consequently perfect as well. Its all in the braking.
@@Zv1k0 I have noticed that is not even about how fast the corners are enter, as a matter of fact is better to enter the corners slow for maximum tire grip to be able to set up a better corner apex and better exiting speed. I just reached menu 38 but Ive been testing myself in the 3 and 4 peppers GT races with propper engine upgrades but no tuning (because I dont understande it very well yet) and Ive been getting first place consistently just by entering the corners slower forcing me to trail breaking a bit before entering the corner. But Ive been trying the suzuka gr3 race event with the gr3 porsche and I seem not to able to ace it, it feels like the car is not the best for that race, after the first corner there is a series corners that look like an M or a W and I dont know how to better take those, for some reason those corners are sitting in a corners twight light zone for me that I have no been able to figure out how to better break, shift and manage the acceleration to better take those corners.
No the reason is because the car on the bottom starts closer, and that everything on the clip above is done better, better braking point so better entering speed so faster cornering and on top of that the car on the top also missed the first apex. Also exiting speed is not a technique its a result so it's out of topic
I disagree with you guys because at all points during a race there have to be an optimal measure of observation, breaking, accelerating and shifting. So, a good breaking can lead to a great cornering but cornering don't stop until you are out, while you are taking the corner you are still measuring, stearing and applying the correct ratio of breaking and acceleration while shifting at the right moment. Even exciting a corner requires practice to better understand the optimal acceleration, racing line while exiting according to the speed, acceleration to be used and the correct shifting timing. If we divide a corner by entering, apex and existing then we can understand that each one of those stages require the practice of three methods to be applied according to the stage in the curve we are in.
And what I am saying I find it to be so true because sometimes the apex of a corner is not the optimal race line or how I've seen the best racers posting the best times by favoring the exit of specific corners by purposely loosing a bit of traction on the rear tires. There are always changes to be applied during the different stages of a corner to keep improving lap times. Also, not all the same exiting method should be applied to every corner because no two corners are the same, there is a basic skill to be used but that has to tweaked according to the corner, tire wear, weather, speed, other racers, etc. So yes, there are different techniques to be explored when exiting a corner.
Auto shift blip. Love it. Trail breaking is a thing of art.. monza T1 is one of the toughest to get right. Great work.
i yeeted thruw the turn one time with my bmw z4 max tune in fm8 or forza motorsport
I don't really understand because I don't play it, but I always appreciate shorts (since by its nature, we cannot give detailed explanations) that gives detail in the description or comment
He’s completely off the brakes at apex in the bottom clip as opposed to the top clip.
It’s the same
Also the cars in the clips aren't lined up the same before breaking! The bottom car is already AHEAD from the top car
So this comparison isn't fully fair
@@DaBrown101 they're just lined up in a different place. In this case, the activation of the brake pedal is the zero.
@@biscoitom yea I get it and it's easier to see that the bottom car does come out faster. Even when lined up by the braking markers. I already edited this video and lined up the cars by the braking markers and the bottom car does come out about a car length ahead which is very hard to see this way.
Duh, won't you able to see how car at the bottom just effortlessly rotated? It just floated around while rotating where as the car at the top had a hard time to turn.
Will you ignore this little detail and make this complete irrelevant@@DaBrown101
It's about braking gently and letting go as you approach the curve, entering from behind, in the middle of the curve giving more angle, turning the steering wheel more and thus generating grip at the front,
Thanks Suellio you have helped me so much
that had nothing to do with trail braking lol
True. The timeloss is because of the late downshifting, basically making your braking distance longer. You can see it at the telemetry. Downshifting while braking is like playing a piano...it's all about timing.
Yea I had to watch a few times to compare the brake traces.
A little bit more pressure at the very end. Well into the corner, but the bigger things, to me, seemed the extra throttle + more gradual corner exit throttle … and ofc cutting the corner
Yall didn't even notice the most important thing, the car below starts closer to the corner so the car above has worse braking point hence worse entering speed/more time lost and on top of that it MISSED the first apex. If that doesn't lose you 0.3 seconds then idk what does
You guys are looking at the wrong things, look how early the top one started braking...
The biggest difference isn’t the trail braking but how much more the bottom cars cutting the corners though the trail braking is definitely making a difference aswell
y’all commenting acting like you know more than a literal career racing driver and coach is hilarious 😭😭😭
Damn I know I need to load up a map with a bunch of these low speed chicanes and work on my cornering
full use of track 💯
Looks like high level curb jumping
The really impressive thing to me is that you can stop yourself from trail braking.
I can't consciously control it like you can.
You need to release the brake trigger gently, rather than simply letting go, The initial brake also has a soft press to trigger brakes, get to your max and then release gently against as your throttle starts up again
I play gt7 a lot and this corner at Monza is my time killer until last night. That first section was almost 3 seconds faster than my many other attempts.
Lol that's not trail breaking, that's corner cutting
That’s called an apex, the inside curb is green on here. it kinda looks like grass, but it’s there
doesnt matter, he completely out off track tho, a lot of games 100% invaildate that lap, if you are 4 wheels off the white line
@@attilalendvai7167 he never went off track, and if you're thinking that bc of the white line to his right, that's the lane for people coming out of pits
@@asterwiz. No not according to iRacing he didn't but IRL that's off-track. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise.
@@asterwiz. eh, technically he did when he mount that right curb as 4 wheels went beyond the white lines.
You have a natural charisma that draws people in.
Bro.. 💀☠️ that was uncalled for
For those who are new, trail braking will maximize the grip the car have, below clip is trail braking, above clip is releasing and pressingg again, you will understeer more that way, the use of the track is completely different in both in the one below he is using the whole track, above is leaving space, the position in both for the exit is completely different thats where he gain .20s or more, during the entry only gain only around .8s, this chicane is the last one in spa where exit speed is more important than entry speed, if the clip above would maximize the position in the exit would be close to the same time probably .10s of a second or less depending on how good he is during the exit
Is this Monza’s turn 1?
turn right at bottom was done closer to inside, giving the better exit speed and the turn left. thats why its faster. on top its slower, because its braking later and miss, getting right turn later and not so close .
first clip braked too early and let go of it too much and too early, and left a bit of it on for too long through both the apexes - car lingering too much on deccel and could be tighter
personally how I do monza T1 is brake as late as I could and try to hug the first kink as tight as I can, coast into the next kink and try to be on the gas as early as possible. don't matter how slow I go, as long as I gas early
=
Slow in, fast out with smooth torque, good tangency,
Actually is somewhat true , because , the braking only works in seams when you hit them hard , if you do perfectly , least twice you should be able to turn in but your reaction time has to be a good one :D
Other racing drivers in game: brake later, more throttle
Me in racing games: *using a little brake before the corners, so i can gain more speed without losing too much speed*
It was a better entry and better breaking technique. Allows the nose for the car to lead and body rotate. The choppy breaking caused the car to push. body rolls when it should rotate.
Keep inside tight...if occupied balance speed and grip on the outer lane
What captions? I don’t get what’s happening here
Check the description
@@mikeg8447 then disconnect your mouse and turn on your kitchen light
I find it so hard to trail brake with a controller
Got 2 triggers, got 2 fingers. Bam your trail braking
Most accurate description ever.@@ibefast
It is hard for a while but you get used to it. Every car does it differently. Trial and error build up that muscle memory 💪
@@ibefast why two fingers?..
@@Andybarney555one for break... One for throttle...
You’re just normal trail braking here brother. You bleed off the remainder of the brakes right as you hit the apex. Early would be rotating the car earlier via trail braking and working to get to neutral coast by apex 🤙
Is that really okay to went over the white line on the first turn of the chicane?
In F1 it would be a track limit.
@@DarkLordAzagthothikr
It's your throttle level because you pull less gravitational forces at that angle your tyres handell it
At the "trail braking" one, you completely cut the first corner. Very different lines.
Because I braked at the same time and the trail braking allowed the car to rotate a lot more to the inside. In iRacing that's not cutting the corner
It should be all 4 tires left the track lol
It's called a chicane, and it's there for you to interact with. The corner only counts as cut when all 4 of your wheels go off track, if you have 2 wheels on track you're clear.
Not only all 4 wheels left the track, there was also almost half width a car of room left between the track and the car😂
@@1MantisPhoenixall 4 wheels went off track though lol
I feels like this was how I came from 49.1 to 47.8
Thats the thing im trying to learn but i am losing rear end a lot of times but when i do it correctly Thats literally a second gained
maybe your brake bias has too much rear bias? it unsettles the rear on trail braking. try moving it forward a couple percent.
@@satriabagaskara4198 Its happening even on 57 or 58 bb. Also ive tried brake migrationa little more forward but nothing happens
@@KluchaDJL its very car dependent. some cars have balance in 68% your car might be one.
@@KluchaDJL in assetto corsa my bb for the M3 GT2 sits at 60%. and depending on the corner i either move it to 59 if i need more rotation or more stopping power, or 63% if i need more balance.
@@satriabagaskara4198 i will try to move it further, cause in LMU Cadillac is very nervous under braking
If I only knew what I was looking at.
Tbh that corner is a bad example because it’s such a slow speed corner, something like the corner at the end of the kemmel straight at spa is a good example of gaining a load of time via trail braking, lots of corners on Nurb GP too
See how am i ment trailbrake at thag chicane if i get sent flying off that kerb in acc and it invalids it
Ugh the worst corner in all of motorsport 😅 always gets me no matter how early i start braking!
Laguna Seca for me.... I don't even have to say which corner 😂 hate that one
@@Kowalskithegreatthe first corner on Daytona gets me.
next video trail brake from the pit exit to turn 1 -2.0s
So, whos better? up or down ?
how did you get the graphs below`
I would also like to know this
👌
"READ THE CAPTIONS"
"No Captions Available for this video"
are we seriously not gonna talk about this??
video was published in 2022
Those full throttle pumps while trail braking is killing me… how??
Еngine kicker while downshifting
Auto blip or heal and toe on down shifts. Using the heel toe method allows the driver to downshift at the very last moment before entering the turn, meaning the car can be in the optimal rev range as the lower gear is engaged. This, in turn, allows for a far smoother and quicker acceleration out of the corner. copied from an internet page 👍
@@RickV6 No heel-toe for DCTs.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad "dcts" 😭
Dude clipped A LOT more of that first curb. I can save time too if all wheels can go over the white line
lemme guess, u only watch F1?
It appears to me the brake point and possibly entry speed was a bit higher for the bottom clip, as well as a better management of the trail brake on the bottom. On the top, there was brake added upon turn-in. On the bottom, looks like a track limits violation on the first turn.
No violation, he was still inside
sausage kerbs used on modern Monza config. So, cut like this is impossible now.
And here 2nd car also throttle from 1st apex. What 1st didn't. It's also important point
Plus you cut half the corner on the faster lap so thats a no brainer
Well, iracing is basically 'trail braking simulator'.
Just put a small throttle gaz middle of the chicane
0.62s? difference?
Acceleration out of the exit while trailbraking isn't easy😅
what game is this??
I be trail braking my moms Acadia ngl
Either the telemetry is delayed or the technic showed is wrong because the way trail breaking works is you reduce the brake pressure just slight milliseconds before you start turning in the wheel towards the apex
Main reason for that is because car has 100% grip which can be used by “braking” and “turning of wheels” which means more brake you press lesser the turning angle and to make sure this balance stays consistent throughout a corner we perform trail braking where you let off brake at similar rate you turn your wheel so more you turn less brake you apply.
Thank You for reading this far of my very limited knowledge of racing
(I take my comment back for super educated people who watches this channel, my comment is only applicable for people that are very new to trail braking method)
You got it wrong...I raced professionally for years. What you describe is just good ole braking. That's not trail braking.. Trail braking is when your still on the brakes as the car is turning into the apex. Your transferring the weight of the car to the front tires to get the front end through the corner. This keeps the tires hot like glue... If you let off the brake like you describe the car will understeer and not make the corner. Its harder to do then most realize. The car cannot make the corner due to the speed. By rotating the weight forward you drive the tires into the asphalt forcing it to turn...
@@Dking863 When did I say you DON’T brake on apex, I said you let off the brakes as you turn on the apex
0.3 per turn per 10 turns is three seconds per lap
Every single tenths matter
you will never make up 3 secons a lap by just better trail braking lmao
Dont think trailbreaking matters when you cut that drastically.
the braking is basically the same except you went faster when braking harder, didn't have much to do with trailing off the brakes
*captions unavailable for this video*
throttle blips tho
Top one looks all kinds of wrong, Early braking, turns in too early, not 100% brake to begin with, more like 85% ish and drags it out over a longer distance, it just looks badly synchronised between the 4 components, brakes, throttle, gears and steering....
Bottom one has the braking and gear changes dialled in for optimum speed reduction / traction, so the turn in is naturally timed correctly too (although to me it still looks slightly early hence hitting the sausage on entry). The weird thing is how letting off the brakes like that can aid you around that last 5-8% of the turn (pre apex), what is feeling like understeer suddenly throws the car too much but perfectly - it makes no sense, but it just works and is an awesome feeling when you get it right and you feel the car "loosen up" just begging you to get back on the throttle like it's saying "We're ready - go go go".
The chicane at Zandvoort (T11-T12) is a great one to practise this on as it's high visibility throughout and slightly downhill so can be pretty darned fast out when you get it right - almost dizzying.
Zanvoort?
Bruh you know what would still be faster not limiting yourself to traction
Throttle and break inputs look almost identical. Not sure where the difference is.
这个是什么插件，看起来很有用
track limits are broken at the bottom
Seems more like you are trail braking MORE on the below exemple( harder brake pressure in turn in), making a sharper turn and getting a better entry for the left turn.
I don't get the ''early''.
Early trail braking means early release which makes it unload the fronts too fast and understeer. But yeah this video didn't work well, im going to record a voice over on top with a better explanation!
What’s this game?
Assetto Fortnite GTHorizon
he cut more and gain more time by positioning his car for better exit.....
Captions and the Description are two different functions on TH-cam.
yall judging my video from 2022 fr
Racing noob here. I dont understand the difference here. I understand how to hit corners and all that but my eyes cant see the difference lol😂
Why u pressing gas while braking
Did my guy just cut the entire corner
Nah he’s under the line
Whats the diference ?
I do alot of touge and i can say im absolutely horrible at track racing I believe its because of my go all in nature
Is that iRacing
Personally, I do not consider Gran Turismo a driving simulator.
5 second penalty to Ocon
A lot more going on here. Trail braking is a bare minimum if you want to be any form of competitive so lets just call it braking. The top one brakes too little and way too long. The bottom one brakes too much, to the point of having to go back on throttle hard between the corner. It just ends up being the faster of the two because the top one is an inferior way of driving
The car on top is way further than the one in the bottom wtf
Be good if u put the telementary so I can see it instead of the subscribe button
i did 1:09 at monza in monoposto
You turned in mush earlier on the bottom and much later on the top.
Ive been comparing my breaking on Trophy AI vs their Expert. Problem is my braking is smoother.. They need a better expert lol
Track limits !
This ain't no f1 hommie
@@yadak1868 ACCompetizione would have negated the lap as well
You cut the corner on the bottom one
the cars in the clips aren't lined up the same before breaking! The bottom car is already AHEAD from the top car
So this comparison isn't fully fair.
I could take this clip and split the them, realign the top and bottom for them to be the same before breaking and then I will see if there is that much of a difference
OK so I just cut and edited the video to match the braking markers on the left before both cars brake. The bottom car actually brakes a bit later than the top car, carries a bit more speed through the chicane and exits faster which does give it the - 0.31s
I just don't like how this clip shows the bottom car way ahead of the top car BEFORE braking, so I had to line them up before they brake and then played it back in slow motion and yes, the bottom car brakes later and exits faster. It's almost a whole car length when it straightens out of the chicane.
dude just cut whole corner lol
3 tenths??
First car's braking point is way off, it also missed the first apex and car below starts ahead of car above. Nothing to do with any trailbraking
Not trail braking? 2nd. Clip enters corner sooner and jumps the curb more
The slower one had more trail braking this is confusion
Track Limits😂
Then right after this you get hit with the cut corner offroad penalty
Legal vs illegal corner. Lol
Is this acc?
Theyre practicing to do it on a real one
This asseto corsa❤right??
No it's iracing
Why are you BLIPPING THE GAS….😂😂😂
Probably rev matching. If this car doesn't have an electronic kicker then you blip the throttle when you downshift so you can drop gears faster by matching the engine speed and the transmission speed manually. Otherwise, the engine is going to get slowed down as the clutch grabs onto it and you're going to lose a ton of time braking way earlier and shifting way slower.
@@laflemme7247 thats my point, its a GT3 class Porsche…it has one
@@magfeed 1/ it's his student. 2/ the blipping is auto. no human can blip that fast and consistently
More like track usage 😂