EP#98 | Can You Separate Art from the Artist? (Michael Jackson, Blade Tax Evasion, and more)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
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Fun fact: all of Andy’s friends in Toy Story 1 were just models of Andy with different clothes
When Niko says the audience are nice and thoughtful, he's actually using the Pygmalion effect.
Up!
Nahh Leaving Neverland literally had so much information coming out showing that nun of that ever happened
A better question first is can you discern facts from tabloid junks? Because whatever you read about the artists, you read it from media.. media aren’t guaranteed to be factual. so before one wonders if they can separate the two, one must know first if what they know of the artist are facts. This is where the real challenge lies.
Especially not the boulevard press. They couldn‘t care less about truth. Clicks and ratings is all they‘re interested in and the bigger the star and scandal, the better for them. You will never ever see them for example publishing articles about Michael Jackson‘s defense. You‘ll never see that in the mainstream entertainment press because it goes against the more profitable narrative.
Exactly, it matters where you get the information from. You don't just go believing everything that has good editing and catchy taglines.
In Micheal Jackson case the accusers had a history of making allegations towards a lot of people. Hell one of the family members got caught trying to steal jewelry at the West Covina mall
At what time they talk about him???
@@mrturi419 They talk about Micheal Jackson towards the very end of the video. Niko quickly brushes off any doubt that Micheal Jackson is innocent. He double down that Micheal Jackson did all those things because of the documentary he watched…
Take Taj Jackson up on his offer to discuss his uncle. He said on or off camera.
He offered?
@@3reasons844 yes. In the comments.
Nice to hear there will be more episodes with Alex. His episode was amazing.
I'm surprised his work wasn't mentioned more often in Corridor, considering the source of information he was for a new VFX company like you guys.
And Nick, I completely disagree about the whole "I will never live to the expectations". No you won't be your father, you'll be yourself with your own life and achievements and that's what I like about you. You are one of the coolest dudes in Corridor and are helping the channel grow a lot while being yourself - and you were cool even before people knew who your dad was, which is great, just shows how cool you are.
"Wren's gonna be trying to jangle from stuff" LMAO I believe it
In Michael Jacksons case there is no need to separate the art from the artist. It's one and the same. But if you did try people would see he was just a human being. Even though the evidence clearly points to him being the opposite it will be the same people that will condemn him and make insulting comments without doing their research yet whilst having a bekind hashtag in their bios. Hypocrisy at its best. Study the cases and make informed opinions.
Faaaacts
Amen!
Truest of crewtons here within 20 min
The idea of seperating the art from the artist is an interesting one, but specifically in Michael Jackson's case, there is no need to discuss. Basing an opinion on an HBO film starring two people who previously defended him when they had nothing to gain, only to change their stories when they have millions of dollars to potentially gain, not to mention the dozens of factual errors in the film... Sorry, but I'm not willing to accept an accusation just because it is detailed, especially if those details contradict documented facts. The courts have sided with Michael Jackson since all this BS started in the '90s. There is absolutely no reason to doubt them. You can enjoy Michael's music and dancing with peace of mind. Otherwise, you really are missing out.
I don't get how people would put themselves out there, to be so vulnerable. It seems strange that they'd willingly go out of their way to get death threats and the like. Even if it isn't true there was clearly something wrong with Jackson, and I don't find it hard to believe that he might have done something inappropriate.
@@crappymcdick Nobody should base their opinions on pure speculation, only facts. I'm not here to speculate as to why they may have lied. I'm here to tell you that they did lie. James Safechuck said he was abused in a train station that didn't exist until 2 years after his alleged molestation. He also claimed that Michael took him on a "honeymoon" to Eurodisney in 1988, even though it wasn't opened until 1992. He also said MJ called him and tried to force him to testify in the 2005 trial, even though he was declared a non-entity MONTHS before the trial even began. Anither flat-out lie. And that's all just James Safechuck. I won't even get into Wade Robson, Jordan Chandler, or Gavin Arvizo right now. For the sake of the argument, I don't care if MJ had anything wrong with him. I don't care about your personal opinions about him. The fact still remains that there is no evidence to suggest he molested ANY child, and I dare anybody to come forward with so-called evidence.
m.th-cam.com/video/d0ID5biz56s/w-d-xo.html
"No reason to doubt courts" God you must think k we live in a society were corruption doesn't exist especially when a very high profile celebrity is involved
@@TheLowleyGuardsman You are taking what I said out of context. Of course there is corruption, and the justice system definitely needs some work, but this does not mean that the American court system is absolutely bad, totally untrustworthy, or completely broken.
What I said in context is that the court rulings in the cases of the Michael Jackson allegations are completely trustworthy, considering that the 2005 trial was abnormally long with all the evidence allowed that you can think of, the 1993 evidence went through two separate grand juries who ultimately refused to indict MJ, and the Wade Robson and James Safechuck civil cases were both thrown out of court several times now after 9 years of litigation.
Not to mention, the public consensus around MJ, especially right before and during the 2005 trial, was that he was a wackjob who probably shouldn't be trusted around children. If anything, the jury would have been biased AGAINST MJ in that trial, and they still vindicated him.
tl;dr: The court rulings in regards to the MJ allegations should be trusted considering the endless hoops and hurdles that MJ and his lawyers had to get through for almost 30 years at this point. The cards were stacked against MJ, and things were not in his favor. Yet he won and continues to win regardless.
I designed Jordan's shirt. Woo! It was meant to be put on a black shirt or navy though, but Woo!
When did you design it? Where can i buy?
Can you separate the art from the artist?
Does it still fuel the artist, if so then no. If I'm part of the reason they're allowed to continue being a dumpster fire that harms ppl in some way gotta say fuck em and find something else to enjoy
Michael didn’t even do anything
Christian, thanks for moving Niko's camera down.
You got it
Damn.. nick with the voice to fall asleep to!
nick is the chillest dude
You've finally found a way to get Adam Savage on the show soon then, woop woop!
On the artist doing a bad thing topic. I think you can 100% separate them. You could enjoy an artist's work for years not knowing who the artist is but then when you find out they they did something bad that logically doesn't change anything other than you being aware. Now if that art is supporting that artist in some way then you might not want to "enjoy"/"support" it. Because at the end of the day you enjoying something to yourself does not change anything.
Overall it's a hard question to answer because it really really depends on what artist you're talking about and what they did.
Yeah I agree 100%
I’ve heard advice that goes: if you go through the day and you meet an a-hole, that persons an a-hole. If you go through the day and everyone’s an a-hole, you’re the a-hole.
Take it with a grain of salt but yeah.
VFX artists react to Michael Jackson! HBO documentary is fictional twisted truth, but you’ll say it’s “Super fans”. If you know the facts you can’t deny the conspiracies!
Fortunately the video isn't about that.
@@maxjones503 Bro, it’s in the title and the thumbnail 🤷🏽♂️
@@JustJoshTV Whether or not Michael Jackson did anything wrong? I thought it was about the morality of judging art in relation to the artists themselves.
@@maxjones503 correct. However putting an artist in that category based on hear say and not fact, makes it open for debate. Clearly the crew think he is guilty hence the thumbnail and comments made in the podcast as well as Niko’s replies in the comments section.
Hell if you don’t wanna talk about it you don’t have to reply to me, or even acknowledge me. I’m not forcing you.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if I knew nothing on the matter and only watched the HBO documentary and what was posted in the media I would maybe think the same thing. However, as a film maker and someone that looks at things with logical reasoning, there’s sides of the story, one side, the other side and the truth. Actually, that’s not even true as the “victims” stories have changed several times. Not to mention the attempted edits of contradictions in the international release. Being abused in a train station that wasn’t built until years after alleged abuse had happened, saying it’s not about money and then suing for a billion dollars. And just making a poor one sided documentary that has no take from Jackson’s side, even down to stating as fact other boys, now men, have been abused when they say that they haven’t. To me, all those things point to ulterior motives and also poor documentary making, but I guess you could say good film making as it fooled it’s audience.
BTW that last bit wasn’t necessarily for you but anyone that may be interest in the subject matter. 👍🏽
@@maxjones503 oh trust MJ didn’t do anything wrong to children or anyone that’s a fact the only thing he was guilty of is being a kind,joyful,beautiful & gentle soul✊🏽👑✨💯
The intros never disappoint, I love them!
I believe you can separate the art from the artist, no matter how heinous they may be. Just as long as the art doesn't reflect their actions and accept that whatever happened happened.
But if you look into the case of Michael you’ll literally see that this man did nothing at all. Even leaving Neverland was bs bro
Exactly, or else literally everything made before the 1900s is bad and should be erased because the people who made those things back then were "bad".
Cancel culture is just bad for so many reasons.
The Walgreens shoplifting video was apparently a "mischaracterization of events" to claim the crime was allowed to occur because of purported leniency resulting from Proposition 47. Other states have higher thresholds than $900, like Texas, felony threshold is $2,500. Snopes seems to have looked into it more in-depth.
I want to see Daniels improved Smash skills in this years tourney.
100% Fire and Ice is amazing as a child and when you go back you're like "actually I don't want my veggies, steak and shrimp cooked at same temp for the same time"
I'm from germany and I could not think (or find) a word that would encompass the "Mandela Effect" like misremembering of a situation or place that you thought was great but isn't. BUT I completely agree, I would have thought that we might have a word for it. Maybe someone else finds something fitting :D
I don't think it's the Mandella effect. As far as I know this effect is better to describe false memories. For example, I read an article and discovered that it's not looney toons it's freaking looney tunes 😂
love the pod, i feel like as niko's bear gets longer he gets more chill and wise
Life is so weird how small little decisions end up having giant impacts. I was just thinking if Sams parents didn’t have as much motivation to move, corridor most likely wouldn’t exist.
Niko, I can't believe you grew up in Rice, MN! I'm an animator from MN and my wife is from Rice...her parents still live there! Pretty wild!! LOVE what you guys do btw!!!
Michael Jackson is innocent
17:30 For part of the effect you are talking about, I usually use the phrase "you can never go home again".
It's not just items, films, books or places being bad, the subject can still be good but it's different because you have changed or its changed or the world has changed.
Man, I would love to see Adam Savage on the show!
my back is still fucked up from a thoughtless driver that tried to exit from the center lane while I was in the outer lane so the part about shitty drivers really spoke to me
There’s no need to separate with MJ cause he’s 1000% was/is an Innocent Man he never did such things he was falsely accused of PERIOD! Do your research and please take Taj up on his offer to come on your podcast✊🏽👑✨🎯💯
I thought this was an old episode and was looking for that episode of vfx artists react. Looking forward to when it comes out!
Leaving never happened… they’re liars & it’s not even close 😂😂
Hindsight - reflection on past event's / experiences and re-evaluating your decision or thoughts.
does anyone know if corridor is still collaborate with BRCC folks?
Hopefully not
@oeufdufromage why what happened?
Nick's dad is the man.
I cant wait for the episodes
That's fire and sticks, not fire and ice lmaoooo we had those where I lived
Nico's statement on the Pygmalion effect around the 30:00 mark was so poignant. I have to say I agree.
16:31 Rosy retrospection
I don't think you should punish the art based on the artist, but it definitely makes it harder going to bat for a piece of art.
At least look into the information on the MJ shirt there’s more to the story fr
Link to the episode with nicks dad please, can't find it? Thanks.
Rosy retrospection is the term. Sorry that it's not exactly German. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection
However there is 'Cognitive bias' which is far more in line with what you guys were probably thinking of. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
It's so weird that all the social media posts I tend to see about San Francisco now are about someone's gear getting stolen from a car. Usually cameras or music gear.
I literally had no bad experiences or anything bad to say about SF when I was there in 2010 and drove around for two weeks. Was weirdly quiet in March though, might have been some out-of-town festival time or something, there was barely any traffic anywhere in the Bay area or Tracy, where I was staying.
With LA it seems to be something utterly stupid about traffic, cops or the treatment of homeless people by the city.
Michael Jackson's FBI files 👇
vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson
FBI files 👇
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_files_on_Michael_Jackson
The fact that nobody brought up "Undisputed" when talking about Wesley Snipes in prison saddens me lol.
The German word for seeing things with different eyes 20 years later is : schmerkengeschmüßelschönradttüngflugeln
The word "like" was used 522 times in this episode 😳
Wesley Snipes is a legend for his tax evasion
commentary tracks on netflix or any streaming service is my dream!
This is more like you guys talk in a room and somebody record accidentally.
Early enough that there's no thumbnail
16:44 pretty sure it’s just known as seeing things through “Rose-Tinted Glasses.”
the effect is either the mandela effect or rosy retrospection
Surprised the separation conversation didn't crop up because of Cosby.
Exactly
@oeufdufromage a) there's a small window where it may have worked out depending on their schedule, definitely follow podcasts that are recorded evening/go up the next morning or morning/go up afternoon (not saying it's better, it has its pros and cons, namely the work load of the people involved) and b) it's still surprising because just how on top of the timing the release was
@oeufdufromage right, because Corridor never does anything last minute
@oeufdufromage yes because I was surprised and kind of asking a question.
It would be really cool to do a React to the Warcraft movie they had design an entire program to create hair and pores.
When it comes to Michael Jackson, I recommend looking into the allegations before deciding to sperate the art from the artist.
👉 themichaeljacksonallegations.com
👉 th-cam.com/play/PLeltLPR4SjLr67tBqTzWC9Hdnh_UURKMx.html
Abso-bloody-lutely. The fact this video is over 2 years past the airing of Leaving Neverland, you'd THINK they might have become aware of the fact it contains over 60 proven lies in it. You'd THINK they might have noticed that it was a hugely manipulative piece of trash. You'd THINK they might have noticed that some of the archive footage stolen off youtube was deliberately edited to remove the true context (such as the Mark Geragos part and the birthday messages). But nah, the Corridor cretins aren't actually as smart as they think they are. Hell, maybe they have the LN poster up on their wall in support. Maybe they bought the creepy score that the makers of LN sell with such as tracks as "touch of his hand" so they can play those tracks and remember their fave parts of child abuse allegations. Maybe they also agree with director Dan Reed that a 7 yr old boy can have a 'fulfilling sexual relationship' and 'pleasant sex' with a man in his 30s, as Reed stated in an interview for the LA Times. Or that Reed got caught using a troll account on Twitter to harass ACTUAL abuse survivors like myself who bothered to research the facts (he responded, to a question aimed at him, as himself on his troll account and accidentally changed his main account's profile pic to that of his troll account before switching it back again quickly). I no longer use Twitter after I was chased and hounded by Reed's weirdo pedo cult. They called me a pedo myself. They used my photo. And even though I gave Twitter pics of my passport to verify it was my photo being used in the defamation (which was reported by over 100 other people including many of my friends who KNOW what I've been through), Twitter did NOTHING. A couple of that same group that follow Reed also tried to trigger me into commiting suicide knowing that I was struggling that day. And again Twitter did nothing, no matter how bad the tweets got. I'm sick of people believing proven frauds and enabling these sick freaks who so badly WANT child abuse to have occured they overlook the masses of evidence that destroyed the allegations. Reed stole much of his movie's narrative from the sicko book of Victor Gutierrez (that Jackson had successfully sued over in the 90s), he just switched out the names but many of the identical phrases and pedo-normalising language use is in there. Particularly Reed's insistance than child abuse can be a 'relationship' with a 'honeymoon' period and 'pleasant sex'. That same book thanks NAMBLA. A godawful organisation in the US that wants to legalise pedophilia. No wonder they wanted the most popular man in the world to be one as if it would then make it seem 'normal'. And all the white media were quite happy to go along with that as they'd been trying to dehumanise the hugely successful black man for at least eight years prior to the 1993 extortion.
But hey apparently people think a black man can get away molesting kids (some of them white) in America of all places. Just cos he sings and dances well? He wasn't even found guilty on the four misdemeanours, never mind the ten harsher charges. Things that should have been an EASY guilty verdict on. The Arvizos were absolutely unbelievable and had tried similar scams before. Janet Arvizo (actually Jackson, yes she married a man with that name in 2004 during all this crap... bit odd to purposely end up with name of the sister of the man you say touched your kids) later got charged with fraud, perjury and had made her kids accuse their own dad too. She'd been exploiting Gavin's cancer (which by that point he didn't even have) to try get money, often from celebs. Chris Tucker and Jay Leno confirmed. Michael was the one who fell for it because he wanted to help, even though he knew how bad it would look. And yeah. Thing is Arvizos never went to police either, they just wanted money. It was all Martin Bashir's manipulative 2003 film that led to police investigation. Bashir hid behind shield law in the 2005 trial rather than tell truth. Wasn't until Jackson died that Bashir FINALLY admitted that despite 'living' with Jackson for 8 months for his film, he had seen no wrongdoing and did not believe Jackson was a molester at all. Bit late, Bashir. Bashir's rep is currently in ruins due to his deception with his Princess Diana interview in the 90s finally being confirmed (and that interview had led to Jackson thinking Bashir was credible enough to interview him). Thing is, even back in 2003 it was proven to be deceptive. There was an entire programme called "Michael Jackson Take Two - The Footage You Were Never Meant To See" on TV that exposed Bashir's two faced lies and manipulation. It can be found on TH-cam these days too. Oh and let's not forget racist DA Tom Sneddon who actually moved the timeline of his client's abuse to a couple of weeks later after (illegally) finding out Jackson had an alibi for that earlier time. He also tried to get one of the kid's fingerprints on a porn magazine to use as evidence but the magazine was dated at least a year or so AFTER the kid had last been at Neverland. Oops.
Anyways sorry for all the words. This.. ugh... just pissed me off. I used to really like Corridor Crew but knowing now how they clearly don't give a crap about facts and evidence that exonerated a defamed black man. I'm shaking cos well, I'm autistic but also.. yeah being a survivor myself this stuff really pisses me off. Supposedly 'smart' people who believe proven frauds cos they can't be bothered to check facts that exposed the liars as opportunists exploiting the real trauma many of us people struggle with every day.
There is a Steven Seagal movie supposed to be in Uruguay, you can make a little research and find out everything is wrong, or call me, I'd be the episode's guest and tell you hahaha
The beeping my lord
What's with the bleeping around 1:05:00 ?
Street Fighter reminded me of how surprised I was of the quality of the VFX on the new Mortal Kombat movie. I was expecting a slightly janky train wreck.
much better with these peeps
'Madeleine moment' maybe answers Sam's question, kinda
maybe there was a vampire outbreak in the prison..
Time stamps please...
Best intro
Seriously, believe what you will but I will always stand by Michael being innocent. Leaving Neverland was an absolute joke. A cash grab, just like all the other times he was accused and the case was thrown out or he was found innocent. He never shared a bed with the children. They even say that he slept on the floor and let them have the bed, IF he even stayed in the same room. I find it disgusting that his children, even after his death, which was heartbreaking in itself, have to continue to endure these unfounded accusations against their father and bear the burden of defending him still, to this day. I know this was a year ago, but I have watched this episode numerous times I every time I feel compelled to comment and I dont think I ever have cause I try not to leave much of a presence in internet comment threads. So, ....there's that.....
Aside from that, I can't R Kelley. But I never did like, or trust, him anyway. Long before he married an underage Aaliyah and took her to bed...
Idk an actual term for it, but I heard it be called nostalgia goggles.
Isn't that just the concept of a shifting baseline? Your brain gets used to seeing something as standard and anything that deviates from that starts looking weird because your brain has an expectation that doesn't get met. As technology improves and we see more films with new technology our brain adjusts to the new standard and when we then look back it then looks weird
16:20 Are they just talking about nostalgia?
i had a very hard time to enjoy anything Rurouni Kenshin related for a long time; i did love the last movie and can't wait for the next and final one; maybe because i feel the OG mangaka has little to do with it
Missing Jake already. 😅
Wesley Snipes went to jail right by where I live. We also have the same birthday. Wow
(Insert algorithm boosting comment here.)
Separating Art and Artist
Cancel Culture is stupid.
If, in the Future, someone from Corridor Crew ends up doing something stupid, should all work from Corridor Crew be "Cancelled"?
I think depending on the act, if person X commits such atrocious acts (beyond retribution) then I think he/she/they deserves to be canceled. That being said said, what irritating about cancel culture is that it is being weaponized by irrational people without weighing things off first.
@@inkero1796 Even in a perfect world, where nothing was done without proof, if Sam (random eg) gets cancelled, then that wipes out all of CCs work, despite the rest of them having nothing to do with it.
Unless the only "Cancelling" done would be to "presssure" them to fire Sam, at which point CC is good, even including stuff that Sam worked on. Which isn't the way it goes. If the "act" is so bad that he is cancelled, he should probably be in jail, if it's not illegal than it shouldn't be an issue.
Even past that, once its sorted, can Sam work anywhere again? Or is "Justice" the idea that he ends up going on Welfare, and "we" have to support him because he's unhirable?
@@lokithecat7225 That's actually a legit good question, I don't have a concrete stance on this and also interested to know others' thoughts, maybe we could wait for other listeners to share their opinions here as well.
His stories are interested but not how he tells them. Pity It wasnt Nikos relative. Niko makes things worth listening to
I don't know for how long san francisco will continue to have those super well payed jobs. Both Tik tok and zoom, the biggest apps last year were developed in China.
Daniel is the studio psychiatrist... Without the confidentiality
Please, you really need to know who the person was behind all these allegations, You can click the links below. His name is Victor Gutierrez. He is a freelance reporter who was the one really behind the Mj allegations and is believed to be a part of Dan Reeds “Leaving Neverland” doc. And Martin Bashir’s “Living with Michael Jackson” doc.
In 1993, Diane Diamond who is another journalist (known for the ‘Hard Copy’) who was heavily involved in Mj’s allegations to report and used Victor Gutierrez as her “source”. Today, she still continues to lie about Jackson. Back in the 90s, she was told that there was a tape of Jackson molesting a little boy. You need to know that Victor G has been making up stories in 1992, before MJ’s first accuser. The first accusers family actually spent time with Jackson for the very first time sometime at the end of February of 1993.
A little background:
Victor G. Joined a group called NAMBLA which stands for North American Man Boy Love Association back in 1986. It’s a pro-pedophile group who obviously abuses little boys. Bob Hammer, a former FBI agent went undercover and spoke about this NAMBLA team on the news, and explained what the rules were in order for him to be in it. He also explained what the pedos did. At the meeting, Gutierrez overheard ppl talking about how “great it would be if Michael Jackson was a pedophile, bc if Michael Jackson was a pedophile it would be easier for societies to accept pedophilia as a whole.” Michael Jackson was an easy target bc he hung out with kids. MJ was the smokescreen for all the real pedos in Hollywood if you think about it. Every ten years a new allegation pops up. They are still after him even after death. The FBI, Santa Barbra and many other police force were onto him & found NOTHING. I mean look at Jeffrey Epstein & Harvey Weinstein! When the police intervened Corey Feldman being asked if Mj had molested him, he said no. And gave them the names of his real abusers. He said that they told him, “well maybe u don’t know your friend” Feldman said, “yes, I do, I’ve been molested but not by Michael Jackson.” Feldman went on saying that the police were just focused on Mj, who did nothing to Feldman. So much for the police caring for CSA Victims right?
After the 1986 conference, Gutierrez has a mission. His mission is to prove that Michael Jackson is a pedophile.
For the next five years (1986-1992) Gutierrez tries to track down as many of Jackson’s current and former associate as he could. In 1992, Jackson ex-employees had always defended Jackson up until Victor Gutierrez got in contact with them. He starts befriending the maids and employees and starts coaching them to lie about Michael Jackson. And that’s when those maids & former employees, (known as the Neverland 5) come in. The ones who said that they saw Jackson with a boy in the shower and found the boys underwear in Jackson’s bedroom. Back in the 90’s they told there infamous stories which ppl still use today as “evidence”. Blanca Francia was paid $20,000. The Neverland 5 were being paid between $100k $150k just by Hard Copy (Journalism. Diane Diamond!) & sold there stories. The Quindoys & LeMarques got paid too. Ron Newt was offered $200k but told them to shove it (His story is online. Claiming ppl were willing to pay him to say Michael Jackson touched his kids). At 2005 trial, the maids and other employees admitted that they met Victor Gutierrez and even contradicted there own testimonies from 1993. Some even sued Mj and lost. They were just mad that Mj fired them from stealing from him. In the year if 1993, they said this and that happened and at the 2005 trail they ended up saying that they’ve never said that or admitted to lying. (Read court transcripts). During this time (1992), Gutierrez also manages to track down 10 year old Wade Robson’s (one of Leaving Neverland accusers) mom Joy Robson, and told her that Jackson was molesting her son. Joy Robson told Gutierrez to “get lost” and told Michael Jackson what had happened. Mind you, this is all before the 1993 allegations arose. Gutierrez also called Jermaine Jackson’s wife and told her that he had a video tape of Michael Jackson molesting her son. (Jermaine made this comment in his book). Diane Diamond was telling others that this tape existed and yet no one went to the authorities. The video obviously never existed. Remember her best source was Victor Gutierrez!
In 1995 Diane Diamond was got a tip from her source that a boy had been molested by Jackson. Long story short, the boy told Diane Diamond about his alleged abuse by Michael Jackson. The boy showed photos of Neverland ranch and he was able to name all of Jackson’s employees and describe every detail of Michael Jackson’s Neverland ranch, like where everything was. He then describe the alleged abuse in detail and how Michael Jackson looked. Diane Diamond said, “They’re gonna think you’re making this up.” Which she always said about Jackson’s accusers and still does today. Which all end up lying. He told the authorities the same story he had told Diane Diamond. Detective Darryle Campbell said, “I found him very believable too.” During the police interview, the child broke down and confirmed that he had been coached. Turns out he was coached by Rodney Allen, who was connected to Victor Gutierrez and Evan Chandler. That’s a whole other story, but links are down below. Diane Diamond then confronts Rodney Allen, “about Neverland, about Hayvenhurst, about Disneyland and about Michael Jackson’s body. Where did he get all that information?” Diamond asked. Rodney Allen said, “he got it from me.” Diamond said, “This kid is a A1, number one lair.” Allen says, “professional” Rodney Allen is currently serving life in prison for pedophilia.
Jumping to 1997, a (NAMBLA) book was released by Victor Gutierrez entailed “Michael Jackson was my lover”. (Not Michael Jackson was my Abuser). The book wrote a book that glorified pedophilia through the relationship between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler, who was the 1st accuser in 1993. One quote that was said in Gutierrez’s book was “In a hundred years maybe such relationship will be accepted by society.” The book also goes into graphic details of the alleged abuse and there’s private pictures from Jordan Chandlers house and Jordan himself who could only been given by Jordan’s father Evan Chandler. Remember, Evan Chandler was the one who actually MADE the accusations against Jackson FIRST. At the end of Victor Gutierrez book, at the acknowledgement section, he thanks all five (Neverland Five) employees, Blanca Francia, Adrian MacManus, Kassim Abdul, Melanie Bagnall, and Ralph Chacon. He also thanks “NAMBLA” and Larry Feldman who was Jordan Chandler 1993 civil Lawyer (also the 2005 Arvizos civil Lawyer), Joy Robson (who told him to get lost and had always defended MJ all the way until her son Wade Robson made accusations against Jackson in 2013), Wade Robson, June Schwartz who is the first accuser Jordan Chandler’s mother, and Dave Schwartz who was Jordan’s stepfather.
Gutierrez claims on a tabloid TV show saying that he saw the video of Jackson and a boy having sex. Michael Jackson had sued Gutierrez for defamation and won. Gutierrez was ordered to pay $2.7 million in damages. Gutierrez never paid Jackson, instead filed for bankruptcy and left to Chile. Jackson’s attorney Zia Modabber said, “This guy made it up out of thin air. Maliciously to hurt Michael and he told anybody and everybody who would listen. When it came time to prove it in his court, he couldn’t prove it.” In the 2000’s, Gutierrez again staring making up rumors about sexual abuse from politicians in Chile, involving a little boy. Long story short, the boy told his story in court that he had been sexually molested and later proven in court, that he had never met this politician. Sound familiar?
It was later discovered that Gutierrez paid the child 10 to 20 thousand pesos. And there were no other witnesses or proof. Just words from Victor Gutierrez himself. This is the same man who was CONNECTED TO EVAN CHANDLER!
Part 2)
The Chandler family has since dismissed Victor Gutierrez’s book as pure fiction (court transcripts). In 2004, Evan Chandler’s brother released a book entitled “All that Glitters”. In 1994, GQ, Mary Fischer says, “With end days of Jordan Chandler and his family settling his 1993 lawsuit against Michael Jackson, I received a call from Jordan’s uncle, he wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail the allegations of the molestation against Michael Jackson, and he said that Jordan’s father had given him all the information he needed for the book and he believed it was outside the bounds of the confidentiality agreement because he would be the author.” Turns out Raymond Chandlers book “All the Glitters” and Victor Gutierrez book “Michael Jackson was my Lover” had MANY instances of consistency storytelling between both books. Especially from Evans point of view, at times the stories are word-per-word the same. Remember, the Chandlers had dismissed Victor Gutierrez’s book! The only difference between the two books are the sexual acts supposedly between Jackson and Jordan Chandler. Now how would Victor Gutierrez know what happened? Again, because Evan WAS involved with Gutierrez. Gutierrez’s book sources some stories directly from Evan “According to Evan…”. Victor Gutierrez’s book also hold documents of the Chandler family that could only have come from Evan Chandler himself.
There’s information out there that Victor Gutierrez was involved in Martin Bashir’s doc. To be honest, I haven’t really looked into that, but the links are below to read more!
It is to be believed that Victor Gutierrez is involved in Dan Reeds “Leaving Neverland” doc. Dan Reed uses Victor Gutierrez’s words that he used in his 1997 book, supposedly from Jordan Chandler words himself.
🚨REMINDER 🚨Jordan Chandler NEVER spoke to Victor Gutierrez or met him. Gutierrez is using his own sexual sick fantasies about what supposedly happened between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler!
The caps represent the same usage of words both from Dan Reed and Victor Gutierrez.
For example,
*Dan Reed interview with Hit.com
“…That was if you like to begin to use it the dreadful word the ‘HONEYMOON’ period, the period when they were really seeing each other a lot”
*Gutierrez’s book: “It was fun. I felt very special waiting for that moment of the ‘HONEYMOON,’ as we called it, when we could be alone.”
*Dan Reeds interview with RollingStone: “Michael was Wade’s ‘LOVER’ and his close friend, to whom he owed a great deal in term of his career and life.” “And that’s why Wade says ‘I didn’t consider it to be abused. I loved Michael and he loved me,’ […] So, for them, this was a NORMAL, HEALTHY thing.”
*Gutierrez’s book: Michael Jackson is a pedophile, which in the eyes in society makes him a “criminal”. Not so for the young sexual companions of the singer, for whom sex with Jackson was, in their own words, “HEALTHY” and “NORMAL.” For me it was confusing, not knowing whether to refer to the boys as victims or ex-LOVERS”
James aka Jimmy Safechucks lawsuit is very similar to Victor Gutierrez 1997 book. Safechuck just changed the names. Mind you, in the 90s Wade & James defended Jackson! So how did Gutierrez know all this? Where did he get this info from? He darn well didn’t get it from the Robsons or Safechucks. All the other kids Gutierrez names in his book all defend Jackson. Again, Gutierrez is using his own sick fantasies! And now Safechuck and Dan Reed are using them in 2013 & 2019.
For example,
*In Gutierrez book on page 78-79: While being with Jordan MJ was careful when others were around.
*In Safechucks lawsuit paragraph 45 and 48: While being with Safechuck MJ was careful when others were around.
*In Gutierrez book on page 21-22: Chandler was jealous of Brett Barnes
*Safechucks lawsuit paragraph 60: Safechuck was jealous of Brett Barnes
*In Gutierrez book on page 57-58: historic and foreign themes movies where kids are masturbating
*Safechucks lawsuit paragraph 60: foreign books and movies with kids masturbating
*In Gutierrez book on page 135: Mj gave medallion to Wade Robson
*Safechucks lawsuit paragraph 33: Mj gave medallion to Safechuck
There’s more examples, but some are very graphic and I will not share.
Victor Gutierrez wrote all types of fictional stories pedophilic stories about his perverted fantasies of Mj and kids and included kids who’ve always defended MJ.
I promise you, the more you look into his cases, you will ask yourself… “Why isn’t the media picking this up?”, “Why is nobody talking about this!” Bc they don’t want u to know! Bc they don’t want this iconic black man to be erased!” The white media is PRESSED! It does have to do with racism too! Watch “Loving Neverland”. It’s super sad!
GUTIERREZ FILES: THE PUPPETEERING THE LIES:
- mjjforum.com/site/gutierrez-files-puppeteering-the-lies/
Rodney Allen-:
- mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/tag/rodney-allen/
Square one on Amazon Prime (extra special clips) goes over the whole 1993 case & talks about Victor Gutierrez involvement (the master and his puppets):
- www.amazon.com/Square-One-Taj-Jackson/dp/B0887TPJ6Q
Square One on TH-cam:
- th-cam.com/video/ZxNDb2PVcoM/w-d-xo.html
Leaving Neverland: Echos of a Pedophilia Apologists:
- th-cam.com/video/qb5UVMwTC5g/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: Loving Neverland (1/4) - Media’s obsession with Michael Jackson and the 1993 Debacle:
- th-cam.com/video/SJyM5SUaMpk/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: Loving Neverland (2/4) - Michael Jackson’s unapologetic discography & Sony conflict:
- th-cam.com/video/WWk78iJxp1k/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: Loving Neverland (3/4) - The unfair trial of Michael in the court of public opinion:
- th-cam.com/video/maTvdmw4Psg/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: Loving Neverland (4/4) - Michael Jackson’s humanitarianism & the final curtain call:
- th-cam.com/video/aODzhHaufpw/w-d-xo.html
The Michael Jackson Rebuttal (Part 1):
- th-cam.com/video/6pnoQqlygQs/w-d-xo.html
Leaving Neverland: The Aftermath TCL Theater ver. | THEATRICAL CUT:
- th-cam.com/video/2hkNPmpudpc/w-d-xo.html
The link below and the link after is the same video, but the second one provides videos and pictures. The first one is just a podcast to listen to.
REASON BOUND Podcast #10: Pirates in Neverland: The Michael Jackson Allegations:
- th-cam.com/video/9J1JQaIrxRU/w-d-xo.html
Take 2 of Leaving Neverland:
- th-cam.com/video/0WGnBgWHwdY/w-d-xo.html
Defaming the Dead: Michael Jackson Rebuttal (Part 2):
- th-cam.com/video/9yTTEwBLfUQ/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson Rebuttal (Part 3) Skeeving Slumberland:
- th-cam.com/video/zYx0vLfpRYY/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson “A case for Innocence” by Larry Nimmer. He was the video man for the 2005 trial:
- th-cam.com/video/1ZMpmWhQRhk/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: A Case for Innocence:
- th-cam.com/video/llLQEi4NMxI/w-d-xo.html
The Michael Jackson Trial: One of the Most Shameful Episodes In Journalistic History:
- th-cam.com/video/xpzAtdQN56c/w-d-xo.html
Debunking Leaving Neverland: The Gutierrez Factor:
- th-cam.com/video/Gf7eVryHPm4/w-d-xo.html
Leaving Neverland - the inception: fake news and the involvement of actual predators in the media:
- th-cam.com/video/4VfzYlVWZfg/w-d-xo.html
Leaving Neverland Circus: Adrian MacManus:
- th-cam.com/video/bYB5QxbFdqI/w-d-xo.html
Lies of Leaving Neverland - Full Movie:
- th-cam.com/video/CXOfz1YkWeA/w-d-xo.html
Debunking Leaving Neverland ‘Lie by Lie’ ~ Lie #1 “It’s not about Money”:
- th-cam.com/video/Koc1dcRBIUc/w-d-xo.html
Debunking Leaving Neverland ‘Lie by Lie’ ~ Lie #2 “It’s not about Money”:
- th-cam.com/video/8qvnzlvDuSY/w-d-xo.html
Proving MJ’s innocence ‘Fact by Fact’ ~ Fact #1: “The Settlement Did Not Buy Michael Jackson’s Freedom”:
- th-cam.com/video/ELybOHbfiH8/w-d-xo.html
Proving MJ’s innocence ‘Fact by Fact’ ~ Fact #2 “No Accurate Description”:
- th-cam.com/video/PsM6kFcQ9tc/w-d-xo.html
The Neverland Raids - Nothin’ Nothin’ Nothin’:
- th-cam.com/video/EO2Ez0xeDlk/w-d-xo.html
The Hunt Part One - Jason Francia:
- th-cam.com/video/lc-8IQrSY30/w-d-xo.html
The Hunt Part Two - The Neverland Five:
- th-cam.com/video/oycwl7I-oOs/w-d-xo.html
The Hunt Part Three - The Media:
- th-cam.com/video/jqZJrQBN0G4/w-d-xo.html
The Hunt Part Four - The Sleepovers:
- th-cam.com/video/B_l2WgJDy8o/w-d-xo.html
Three Reasons Michael Jackson Had Sleepovers (With Girls, Boys, and Adults):
- th-cam.com/video/CW7XAQc6i_E/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson And Wade Robson: The Real Story:
- th-cam.com/video/rgSbSotJgUY/w-d-xo.html
Cognitive Flaws, Leaving Neverland &Michael Jackson | An Appeal to Reason:
- th-cam.com/video/VpR-QboDfyg/w-d-xo.html
Jordan CHANDLER v Michael JACKSON - The 1993 Allegations (Part 1):
- th-cam.com/video/_nZYLeFo5U0/w-d-xo.html
Jordan CHANDLER v Michael JACKSON - The 1993 Allegations (Part 2):
- th-cam.com/video/qkzjz85b85c/w-d-xo.html
The Plutonium Show: People V Michael Jackson (2005) Case Analysis (Podcast #17):
- th-cam.com/video/bWePgAJ6ny4/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: The Most Innocent Man In The World (Leaving Neverland Truth):
- th-cam.com/video/7JkvGJYbfvI/w-d-xo.html
EXCLUSIVE - Michael Jackson Extortion Scheme Exposed On Reckless Raw Radio - Vegas Live with Ninon:
- th-cam.com/video/MQjBb1t824I/w-d-xo.html
Response to “Leaving Neverland” with Defense Attorney Brian Oxman for Michael Jackson:
- th-cam.com/video/FJmUdkfHOVM/w-d-xo.html
New Evidence in Michael Jackson Case (Geraldine Hughes and Dr. Cherilyn Lee):
- th-cam.com/video/hGwqBAyO1zc/w-d-xo.html
Brandy Jackson speaks out on Wade Robson and Leaving Neverland, interviewed by John Ziegler:
- th-cam.com/video/hT64RdTQ8jI/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: Chase The Truth:
- th-cam.com/video/JlYnPnIOCR8/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson: The Life of an Icon:
- th-cam.com/video/2_HY74YEnhA/w-d-xo.html
Brandy Jackson Speaks Out Against Leaving Neverland & Oprah on Hollywood Unlocked [UNCENSORED]:
- th-cam.com/video/sBIRrIZ4n2k/w-d-xo.html
IZM RADIO:Michael Jackson’s Niece Talks About the Leaving Neverland Documentary:
- th-cam.com/video/XFrypTZiusE/w-d-xo.html
Debunking Leaving Neverland: with Taj and Brandi Jackson:
- th-cam.com/video/tsuxaa3qIzE/w-d-xo.html
Part 3)
Truth About Leaving Neverland & Michael Jackson - Taj Jackson interview | Hugging the Cactus:
- th-cam.com/video/G0Bc3WPcxwM/w-d-xo.html
Disputing “Facts” About Michael Jackson - Taj Jackson Interview part 2 | Hugging the cactus:
- th-cam.com/video/kmAc8n_-nos/w-d-xo.html
Who was Michael Jackson: Interview with Taj Jackson (2020):
- th-cam.com/video/BRg5VUgP5Y0/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson’s Innocence: Leaving Lies - Documentary Around The Latest Accusations:
- th-cam.com/video/E0uaJSYX68g/w-d-xo.html
Siggy Jackson on Conspiracy Theories with Michael Jackson’s Death + Blasts Wade Robson For HBO Doc:
- th-cam.com/video/0l91t3vkg-U/w-d-xo.html
Everything you need to know! The court transcripts are available here. This website goes in depth about the allegations and the two settlements. It also has a section of ‘Frequently Asked Questions, (FAQ), which talks about the myth of child pornography, Did he pay off families? Why did he have sleepovers? Did he get off due to celebrity justice? Did they find a naked photo of Jonathan Spence? Etc. :
- themichaeljacksonallegations.com/
FBI FILES on Michael Jackson: vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson
Get to know the real Michael Jackson:
Humanitarian- The Real Michael Jackson (Full Documentary):
- th-cam.com/video/xW2YG8HjZxE/w-d-xo.html
MICHAEL JACKSON - THE WOMANIZER (MUST SEE):
- th-cam.com/video/asjYFxcD6GU/w-d-xo.html
Michael Jackson - Private Home Movies (Full Version):
- th-cam.com/video/-L1R3qTolKA/w-d-xo.html
Tldr?
@@GabrielsLogic Gutierrez wrote a sladerous book based on 'evidence' he had access to concerning MJ and the 1993 accuser Jordan 'Jordy' Chandler. When asked to produce said evidence in court, he couldn't. He was then ordered by a court to pay MJ a shit tonne of money for lible and damages. Gutierrez fled the country. This book was also denounced by members of the Chandler family, James Safechuck's story, is almost word for word, a retelling of the lies in that piece of trash. The medallion, the rings, the vows. Added onto his other lies, either he read the book and used it as a basis for his claims, or Gutierrez is somehow connected to the situation.
@@DeGBitch thanks!
Hi :)
those bleep sounds are so damn loud.. please just mute the audio for that word or something next time :p
Some of the greatest art ever comes from flawed people. I hate this culture of cancelling people.
Hahah Christian like fuck no all that is staying in
except half of Jordan‘s parking story
@@NomTom Hhaha true, she got all the censor haha
@oeufdufromage probably names
@oeufdufromage if you go to their website you can check it out but I believe she’s talking about a car of one of the neighbors on Hunter street.
Nobody cares about the Michael Jackson thing. He’s dead, get over it
Oh everyone cares about MJ best believe we care for his innocence and we’ll scream it to the heavens if we have to as one cause that’s the absolute TRUTH MJ Was & Always Will Be A Innocent Man🙏🏽✊🏽👑❤️✨💯
The whole world cares about MJ. The whole world struggles every day to clear her name, prove her absolute innocence by showing the thousands of evidence and facts that support her, uphold her legacy, spread her message of unconditional love and continue her mission that is ours, to heal the world of the darkness that dominates him. The whole world loves, protects and defends Michael Jackson and no one can erase that !!!!
The Jackson 5 is the worst.
In your dreams maybe lol.