Finding an old Pheonix Hawk LAM in an abandoned cache at the end of the Crecent Hawk Inception is my shining moment in gaming. Been chasing that dragon ever since.
Hah! Laughs aside, I do adore the LAMs. They're just such cool, intricate designs. Really hope they get something of a renaissance in Battletech, now that Harmony Gold has been properly told off to stop their legal shenanigans. I mean, sure, they have some solid flaws, but they offer such interesting tactics in turn, and I'd just *adore* the idea of a video game down the line that actually incorporates them as a valid mech sub-class. Thanks for covering them! Really hope those individual LAM type videos garner enough interest, because I'd love to see them!
The issue with the original, and all subsequent lawsuits involving the "Unseen," was that HG didn't actually have the rights to the images of these designs. They only had the *distribution* *rights* to the shows Robotech. Crusher Joe was owned by another company. That doesn't encompass the artwork in said shows. Weisman and Co. should *never* have been made to pay. Big West and Tatsunoko didn't, and still don't, have the rights to the Veritech fighters as they were designed by Tanoko Toys, who went out of business in early 1984. Neither Big West, or Tatsunoko acquired it And when the suit was brought up in the late 80s, early 90s, the patents were still in their owner's possession. HG, never had these rights, or patents, as their agreement with Big West and Tatsunoko, only says Distribution Rights to the shows.
Sad that it took about 20-30 years of nonsense for anyone to finally put them down after they were playing copyright troll on something they didn’t even have.
This actually speaks toward the reason HG was so carnivorous legally (aside from straight up greed). Litigating these properties ferociously was part of a strategy to demonstrate that they functionally DID own Robotech's source properties (which they were soundly crushed on), by setting an indirect precedent of "defending" the copyright (when they were actually trying to steal it). On that note, had anyone else noticed tha Macross Frontier is using the original Valkyrie/Veritech style again?
Ah, the LAM! A true favorite of mine. I still have the minis in that box over there. I'm still waiting for those finalized rules for them to come out. From the previews we got, LAMs are hardly useless in the modern game, but have to be used with a good grasp of their special tactics and weaknesses.
What basically happened gameplay-wise was under the original rules a LAM could be a 50 ton mech that could jump 20 hexes a turn with just the +3 jump modifier to fire and no heat penalties, which made them way overpowered so they were taken out of the master rules and written out of the lore in this way. I mean you could have a mech that could move way faster than a Spider with three times the firepower and was almost impossible to hit.
I played a couple of aerotech battles with LAMs last weekend, They have a rather limited fuel reserve that limits them to use overthrust once or twice per game but they are quite resisstant to damage
@@barrybend7189 I use the old rules. Under those rules, all LAMs have 30 fuel points. but a good thing about those rules is the allowance of XL engines and ferro-fibrous (ferro-alluminium?) on LAMs (wich i didnt use because i was playing with vanilla Inner Sphere equipment)
Actually they hired the same artists and since harmony gold is a patent troll they wanted a monololy on the land air mechs. Also harmony golddidnt even aquire the macross liscence thrpughtechnically legal channels yetit was upheld in court.
The real story i much more convoluted. A company that made Heavy Gear used some of the designed used in Battletech. Turned out that it was a subsidiary of Harmony Gold who then used FASA. Turned out despite FASA going directly to the originators of Macross ond other series and getting their poermission, Harmony Gold obtained the international rights and won the case against FASA, leading to these LAMs being left to history and the Unseen. Harmony Gold has been pretty much IP trolling ever since even pinging companies such as Hasbro claiming Starscream was copying their unique design despite both being based on the F-15 fighter. The part of Harmony Gold having the actual IP to the mech designs, defined as "characters" was never proven or disproven as the new lawsuits against them were either settled or drawn out so long that it threatened to hamper the game development and release. Plus, from what I understand, LAMs weren't that popular to being with. I hear stories of when the 3 modal versions were out, most players out stick to the in-between mode and take advantage of the extreme mobility it was granted. It was like having extremely powerful jump jets. The new designs, without the inbetween mode and most tech being restricted from it really hurt it from being used very often.
It wasn't a copyright jungle, it was simply HG lying their asses off in court while withholding Japanese court decisions. Even when the Japanese courts found in favor of their opponents, HG said "screw that, it's ours now," and nothing was done.
Love these guys ever since Robotech and Macross. All that aside, these guys were the Harlequins of the battle field. They could appear do some dmg and were gone. In battlemech mode they similar to and operated much like a light mech would, in the (guardian, idr the actual name) configuration the jump capabilities were drastically increased however they were a bit more susceptible to damage and if the took too much of a critical you may not be able to transform back to mech or aerospace mode if the equipment is damaged. It's Achilles heel is its LAM equipment. it was fragile and very very very hard to replace, but of course now we know there is probably an original supply somewhere in the ComStar garage. These mechs were difficult to produce so not many ever existed and those that did, when the LAM was damaged it was simply taken out and never replaced so it continued through the centuries as just a Stinger, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk. I believe there was an attempt to convert a Crusader to a heavy version of a LAM, I don't recall how that turned out though. Sweet mechs but a dead branch of mech design im afraid, for now anyway.
I always wished they'd gone a different direction, and given the lore 'eliminating' the transforming units, established designs based around the AirMech mode, without the conversions to the other two..some being LAMs that were just 'locked' the AM mode due to damage, and other being designed that way from the start.
When I started playing in 1989 my first miniature was a Phoenix Hawk LAM. I have always loved LAMs and have continued to have them as part of my forces through all the various rules changes and NERFING that happened.
The LAM as a concept was always kinda interesting, even if it was really, really niche. But then again, I love the 'Mechbuster and want a 3060 upgrade with a RAC 5 installed, so maybe it's just me.
You could make a 55 ton LAM with two AC 20's that moved 15 hexes a turn and had zero heat created. All this lore to get rid of them was because a lot of the early content was stolen from Macross, and they were a bit too on the nose, and they were too strong, because the two-hit was based on your movement type, not distance, but to hit you was based on how far you moved, so moving 15 hexes made you almost impossible to hit, but you could get right behind them and shoot them in the back with weapons strong enough to kill assault mechs in a single strike.
Love LAMs ,spanning from Robotech , I love the Phoenix Hawk LAM. Yes it is silly for battle , but I do love them none the less. As always I look forward to your videos, they are entertaining and informative.
Macross, Army of the Southern Cross, and Mospeada were the three individual series in Japan that were combined into one story line under the name Robotech to meet US syndication requirements for weekday cartoon programming. Many BattleTech designs came from Macross, the most popular and most recognizable series of the group. Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Archer, Warhammer, Rifleman, and Marauder were all Macross designs. I too was a big LAM player due to my love of Robotech...not Macross but Robotech as that is how I was introduced to the series here in the US. Gen1/Macross was always my favorite and I would design entire lances of LAM units...usually 55 ton units as that was the maximum size allowed under the second version of the rules (first version allowed any size and 100 ton LAMs are pretty funny to imagine though I did create a few before the rules were clarified). In battle, it's all about how they are used. They aren't brawlers and they will quickly die if used as such. Hit and run is where they live. I used mine to harass and soften up approaching opponents staying in Air-Mech mode and jumping 10+ hexes every turn to maximize the targeting difficulty for return fire. They usually carried enough firepower that once the other units engaged my regular mechs, the target would have to decide to expose his rear to my LAM or to another mech. When the C3 computer was available, they made great spotter units allowing my heavier units to target an opponent from very long ranges without the range penalty. In a proper team, they were a powerful component.
The AirMechs could be very useful depending on the rules. The older rules basically let them jump continually without heat penalty, making them very fast units that were hard to hit. I had designed a LAM that carried an AC20 once. It was terrifying if you could get it to jump behind someone and unload at point-blank range Since then, I have heard there have been two new LAM rulesets, with the latest set making them basically useless.
Battletech , and Robotech had the same artist make their drawings of their units. The artist sold them both the same pictures. Oddly he never got sued .
I consider the Land-Air-Mechs to be a silly design but at the same time I like how they went through painstaking details to show that the transformation feature of the LAM was the greatest weakness.
One thing about the dispute, from what I've read and was stated about HG contracts, they had the animation rights, but what FASA licensed was the image and the company they got that from had the world wide rights to the static images. I'm not a lawyer and I've never seen the contracts but HG sucks
From my understanding it's pretty complicated and due to the way that the Japanese property's copyrights (images, animation, songs, story, publication, etc...) are divided up and handled by different companies. At the time of the original lawsuits the rights for Macross belonged to some five or so different companies, thus causing the confusion and legal drama. As I remember it the results of the suit were that Big West owns the designs for the various mecha but HG can produce new print publications containing the designs in the west, release more copies of the Robotech series but not produce any new animation containing the Macross designs.
Not entirely correct. FASA licensed toys which was supposed to include use of the images. At the time Tatsunoko had all rights to Macross and HG licensed Macross and 2 other anime to create Robotech. Hence HG sued and FASA decided to settle.
@@darkstorminc According to the legal summary I saw it got pretty complicated. Not just FASA but the Exo Squad wave 2 toys that were Macross designs. Necessarily the Japanese IP holder for the designs, by that time Big West, got involved. After much legal wrangling the judge ruled that Big West owned the images but that certain licenses, mostly HG would continue, though now more limited in use, hence the lack of new Macross based animation on HGs part. I believe the use of the Southern Cross images also got limited as well.
@@pouncerlion4022 Southern Cross and the Invid arc are pure Tatsunoko iirc. Within Robotech though there is no real reason to continue with that story while the Invid arc had more room for growth hence Shadow Chronicles(?) and the failed Sentinels. Imo Southern Cross was just crap anyway, even as a kid it made no sense compared to Macross and Invid Invasion. As far as exo squad didnt FASA sue over one or more designs being a little too close to the clan battlemechs?
@@darkstorminc with Sentinels going forward was the right choice, though I remember an article where they were talking about the necessity of redesigning the characters and dropping the Valkyries due to some copyright issues. They didn't have quite the same trouble with the comics (Valkyries and Zent stuff do show up there) due to the different copyright for them. I do not know about FASA in the Exo Squad suit.
Limited to 55 tons, you say? No wonder there weren’t any in the Lyran Commonwealth. Fifty-five tone is what you call a chassis with no armor or weapons outfitted.
Been watching these videos for a little while and I think that the coolest part of this universe is how grounded it is. They have a combo ground/air mech, and instead of being a super dangerous monster it ends up being an “awesome on paper, but impractical in practice” sort of thing for entire realistic and believable reason
LAMS are my favorite mech. They have triple jump jets in gerwalk mode. You get back shots anytime you want basically. Plus in jet mode they can straif and attack every target in that line with 6 times the heat dissipation. Thats epic!
How about this? You build a CAS gunship with extra engine power to carry a mech, that way you still got a mech and a CAS plane while keeping production and logistics relatively easy and cheap.
I always loved LAMs, there were one of the things that caught my eye when I first got into BattleTech and got my first TRO. I know they're flawed and fairly heavily so, but the coolness factor outweighs a lot of that. I also got lead to Macross from LAMs in BattleTech, and huge Macross fan that I am, I have to thank them for that. It's a shame they keep getting written out of canon, it seems like internal disagreements keep putting them in and out of the setting. Also yes, would love to see more videos about LAMs as well. The only mention of one I remember in significance is the merc pilot Brian Seagrove in the novel Far Country who pilots a Phoenix Hawk LAM
But if you give it fins, it would look like a bomb, which would perfectly justify dropping a company of them out of an Overlord and watching the ensuing chaos from orbit.
LAM's were basically really awesome helicopters before they changed the rules....because they were too good I guess In the original rules (and most rules until the lawsuit) you could do an 18 hex charge at head level with your legs Direwolves/Dashi's really didn't like that
Thank you. Starting a Mechwarrior game with a huge robotech fan based on planet Gibson. Last holdout of Blake’s forces. They may just find a redoubt with some of these new three designs. They are going to have some really wet dreams if they can ever figure out how to pilot them and eventually get off a dead planet with no HPG
Jade Falcon had a facility on huntress the capitol for smoke jaguar that was working on LAMs. Aiden Pryde best friend and Freeborn Mechwarrior horse went to it and got into a romantic relationship with a true born bloodnamed Mechwarrior. Two of the pilots for the program were trueborn aero fighter pilots who were injured and so worked as these qusi fighter/mech pilots for the program. It was a cool book and it saw the start of operation bulldog. I felt smoke jaguar and the clans got a rotten deal with that plot. After the Loss to comstar the stories got worse to atrocious.
I can't help but wonder why nobody ever thought of building a pure Airmech, as they seem to be the biggest advantage a LAM has. (the Airmech movement of a Phoenix Hawk LAM for example gives it a faster movement speed than a Fire Moth using it's MASC.) Just get rid of the alternate mech and fighter modes; Without the conversion gear, the engineers might even have simplified the design enough that advanced tech could be used in it's construction.
The parts manufactured by Lexatech industries werent just good for the Stinger and Wasp LAMs, the Spotlight: Crescent Hawks book points out that the 'Hawks raided Irece specifically to get parts for their Phoenix Hawk LAM.
Wished that the company that makes all the mech warrior games would make an updated game complete with protomechs, battlesuits and LAM's thrown in there for one hell of a variety
Hey Grimdark. PWWKA. It’s a welsh word and spelled in English it’s pooka. Ie: a dark faerie shape shifter known for leading men to their deaths. The two W’s are pronounced as a long O sound 🙂
Well look up Pooka or the other spellings of it. It could take the shape of a black horse. Or a duck or many things. It’s an interesting British folklore faerie. Also. I’ve been watching/ listening to your videos since you posted hp love craft stuff a few years back then the battletech novels. Hoping you read a few more. Also. I loved the Warhammer empire soldier novels you read. Just glad people like you are out there.
They weren't in trouble because they ripped off somebody, they were in trouble because they paid the bribe to the wrong person. The LAM models were paid to the company that designed the toys the models were based on, but the company that created the designs got upset and wanted a peice. Battletech, the company got upset since they were already were paying for the license to use the design and LAMs were regulated to the "Unseen" designs.
FAS licensed the designs straight from the japanese studio, and harmony gold, the US distributor of macross sued them because they held US distribution rights for the show. Not IP rights for the designs in it, but sistribution rights for the show. It was always spurious, but FASA chickened out.
Thank you for making this video. My favorite mechs are the LAMs. I hope for the next kickstarter that cgl does also includes plastic LAMs. Just don't mention them on their current KS because you will get attacked by a couple of grognards.lol I'd love to see separate videos on each of the LAM units.
I'm rather partial to the "fake" Clan LAM. The Cougar XR. I even put together a custom variant that jumps 10 hexes and can fire its two ER medium pulse lasers and four er small lasers while remaining heat neutral.
LAM's as useful as they are on the battlefield are not a true replacement for actual aerial atmospheric, space, atom-space fighters or mechs in general, they are effective in hit and runt tactics or scouting operations behind enemy lines, and can be a real pain in the ass for assault and heavy meach, however, the pilots themselves will be outmatched when facing rocket & flack batteries, this sort of tactic was proven by the operation carried out by Star League who had learned after losing a good deal of their main forces in the wars for the Periphery when facing guerilla rebel forces, who used this sort of tactic in retaliation they started to employ rocket and flack batteries, guarded by power armor, light and medium mech with tanks and infatry forces, however this was the last part of the Leagues great efforts to keep things in check. This tactics would be well remembered however, by many other forces who would want want controll over those sectors,
The "Other Sources" was the Macross Valkaries, they also got the designs for the unseen from Macross, the unseen are the Archer, Rifleman, Warhammer, Marauder, Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, Longbow, and Phoenix Hawk. While Studio Nue/Big West had no problem with Fasa using the designs and even gave their permission to use them the legal battle to place with Harmony Gold who adamantly insisted that they owned the images despite only gaining distribution rights from Tatsunoko who themselves only have distribution rights for only the very first Macross series, not ownership rights like Harmony Gold claimed. This along with how they treated Big West, the creators and owners of Macross as well as the fans of Macross earned Harmony Gold allot of hate, I really mean ALLOT of hate. It got so bad that at one point Big West openly encouraged pirating of the show in Western countries because they couldn't make any money from it in those areas, wanted the fans to enjoy the show and spread it which would lead to purchasing of merchandise (the only way to make money from it in those regions) while giving a huge middle finger to Harmony Gold, which Big West for decades rightly and openly said they stole their property and that they couldn't believe they were allowed to get away with it. I never had an LAM in game, always fascinated by them, but sadly never had nor needed one. Thanks for covering them!
to be honest LAM should just have either battlemech mode or airmech mode and have the fighter mode as default, remove the third transformation, so production can be simplified. though that's just my point of view
I forgot to ask if you might read some of the short stories from the old battletechnology magazine? In issue #15 there's a short story about a combine MechWarrior who uses his LAM against the clans during the beginning of the invasion.
Never played battletech but i liked the LAM with it's asshole pilot in that BT novel where Kuritia troopers misjump into another reality and conquer an primitive alien civilisation and where the savage ones end up killing eachother for power and ego.
Bull shit. They didn't rip anyone off. They had a license from Japan. It's not their fault Harmony Gold flaked out on a promised Robotech RPG. #FuckHarmonyGold.
The original "Unseen" were straight copied from Robotechs source IPs. Robotech is an American smashup of multiple animes. FASA won because they were operating in good faith while HG was being a bunch of scammers
I can see the uses, however, I'm sure, conventionally, the complexity and sensitivity of such a machine's systems must be a BITCH to repair and manage upkeep. I just wonder if somewhere, in the distant past, someone sat at a drawing board and thought "Now, if I just stick this helicopter prop on an Urbanmech...?" And then, someone shot him...
I picked up a Screamer in the RogueTech PC game. It was an automatic addition to any drop that required a fast scout or harassment. Sometimes the ability to jump behind units from across the map, unload into a vulnerable back, and then bug out again is priceless. However, all the designs pictured are god-awful. None of them fit the aesthetic look of BattleTech. They all look more like Gundams, which are horrible abominations deserving to be ridiculed and mocked. Stupid Gundams.
These new designs are terrible. That being said, the true strength if LAMs is with deep recce, espionage and sabotage. I have always thought (for what it is worth) that they should carry detachable pods. Pods that can carry equipment, people, or even men in battle armor. LAM could drop down from space, land a team and retrieve them. A LAM could give fire support to that team (a mech suddenly tearing through a quiet sector would spread panic) IF there was little risk of that valuable machine being lost.
Finding an old Pheonix Hawk LAM in an abandoned cache at the end of the Crecent Hawk Inception is my shining moment in gaming. Been chasing that dragon ever since.
Yea, I got a random ebay mech box a while back and shat myself when I pulled a crescent hawk out.
OMG I loved that game. Jason Youngblood's Phoenix hawk. Waited forever for the sequel to pilot that thing.
Hah!
Laughs aside, I do adore the LAMs. They're just such cool, intricate designs. Really hope they get something of a renaissance in Battletech, now that Harmony Gold has been properly told off to stop their legal shenanigans. I mean, sure, they have some solid flaws, but they offer such interesting tactics in turn, and I'd just *adore* the idea of a video game down the line that actually incorporates them as a valid mech sub-class.
Thanks for covering them! Really hope those individual LAM type videos garner enough interest, because I'd love to see them!
On the tactical battlefield of the hex map they had limited use, but strategically they could be effective in a war campaign.
-Why my direwolfs doesn’t have ammo?!
-I’ve destroyed your untouchable supply lines with few LAMs
The issue with the original, and all subsequent lawsuits involving the "Unseen," was that HG didn't actually have the rights to the images of these designs. They only had the *distribution* *rights* to the shows Robotech. Crusher Joe was owned by another company. That doesn't encompass the artwork in said shows. Weisman and Co. should *never* have been made to pay. Big West and Tatsunoko didn't, and still don't, have the rights to the Veritech fighters as they were designed by Tanoko Toys, who went out of business in early 1984. Neither Big West, or Tatsunoko acquired it And when the suit was brought up in the late 80s, early 90s, the patents were still in their owner's possession. HG, never had these rights, or patents, as their agreement with Big West and Tatsunoko, only says Distribution Rights to the shows.
Sad that it took about 20-30 years of nonsense for anyone to finally put them down after they were playing copyright troll on something they didn’t even have.
This actually speaks toward the reason HG was so carnivorous legally (aside from straight up greed). Litigating these properties ferociously was part of a strategy to demonstrate that they functionally DID own Robotech's source properties (which they were soundly crushed on), by setting an indirect precedent of "defending" the copyright (when they were actually trying to steal it).
On that note, had anyone else noticed tha Macross Frontier is using the original Valkyrie/Veritech style again?
And the Horus Lupercal shook me for a second. Very funny. 😂
Ah, the LAM! A true favorite of mine. I still have the minis in that box over there. I'm still waiting for those finalized rules for them to come out.
From the previews we got, LAMs are hardly useless in the modern game, but have to be used with a good grasp of their special tactics and weaknesses.
Exactly this! If they aren't an auto win the ignorant masses call them useless.
The final rules have been out for awhile now.
@@darkstorminc The final rules aren't supposed to be out until Interstellar Operations. I still haven't seen that book released.
@@pouncerlion4022 Well it has been out for awhile, at least a year or two. I have it in pdf and someone ordered it from the local store.
What basically happened gameplay-wise was under the original rules a LAM could be a 50 ton mech that could jump 20 hexes a turn with just the +3 jump modifier to fire and no heat penalties, which made them way overpowered so they were taken out of the master rules and written out of the lore in this way. I mean you could have a mech that could move way faster than a Spider with three times the firepower and was almost impossible to hit.
Sounds kinda OP.
I played a couple of aerotech battles with LAMs last weekend, They have a rather limited fuel reserve that limits them to use overthrust once or twice per game but they are quite resisstant to damage
Replace standard engines with Fusion and you have better fuel efficiency.
@@barrybend7189 I use the old rules. Under those rules, all LAMs have 30 fuel points. but a good thing about those rules is the allowance of XL engines and ferro-fibrous (ferro-alluminium?) on LAMs (wich i didnt use because i was playing with vanilla Inner Sphere equipment)
Actually they hired the same artists and since harmony gold is a patent troll they wanted a monololy on the land air mechs. Also harmony golddidnt even aquire the macross liscence thrpughtechnically legal channels yetit was upheld in court.
The real story i much more convoluted. A company that made Heavy Gear used some of the designed used in Battletech. Turned out that it was a subsidiary of Harmony Gold who then used FASA. Turned out despite FASA going directly to the originators of Macross ond other series and getting their poermission, Harmony Gold obtained the international rights and won the case against FASA, leading to these LAMs being left to history and the Unseen. Harmony Gold has been pretty much IP trolling ever since even pinging companies such as Hasbro claiming Starscream was copying their unique design despite both being based on the F-15 fighter.
The part of Harmony Gold having the actual IP to the mech designs, defined as "characters" was never proven or disproven as the new lawsuits against them were either settled or drawn out so long that it threatened to hamper the game development and release.
Plus, from what I understand, LAMs weren't that popular to being with. I hear stories of when the 3 modal versions were out, most players out stick to the in-between mode and take advantage of the extreme mobility it was granted. It was like having extremely powerful jump jets. The new designs, without the inbetween mode and most tech being restricted from it really hurt it from being used very often.
It wasn't a copyright jungle, it was simply HG lying their asses off in court while withholding Japanese court decisions. Even when the Japanese courts found in favor of their opponents, HG said "screw that, it's ours now," and nothing was done.
Love these guys ever since Robotech and Macross. All that aside, these guys were the Harlequins of the battle field. They could appear do some dmg and were gone. In battlemech mode they similar to and operated much like a light mech would, in the (guardian, idr the actual name) configuration the jump capabilities were drastically increased however they were a bit more susceptible to damage and if the took too much of a critical you may not be able to transform back to mech or aerospace mode if the equipment is damaged. It's Achilles heel is its LAM equipment. it was fragile and very very very hard to replace, but of course now we know there is probably an original supply somewhere in the ComStar garage. These mechs were difficult to produce so not many ever existed and those that did, when the LAM was damaged it was simply taken out and never replaced so it continued through the centuries as just a Stinger, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk. I believe there was an attempt to convert a Crusader to a heavy version of a LAM, I don't recall how that turned out though. Sweet mechs but a dead branch of mech design im afraid, for now anyway.
thanks for the share.
I always wished they'd gone a different direction, and given the lore 'eliminating' the transforming units, established designs based around the AirMech mode, without the conversions to the other two..some being LAMs that were just 'locked' the AM mode due to damage, and other being designed that way from the start.
When I started playing in 1989 my first miniature was a Phoenix Hawk LAM.
I have always loved LAMs and have continued to have them as part of my forces through all the various rules changes and NERFING that happened.
Actually Grim, Fasa purchased the rights to those designs. But thank you for playing.
The LAM as a concept was always kinda interesting, even if it was really, really niche. But then again, I love the 'Mechbuster and want a 3060 upgrade with a RAC 5 installed, so maybe it's just me.
The devastating effect of a strafing run from a LAM in air mode can not be understated.
You could make a 55 ton LAM with two AC 20's that moved 15 hexes a turn and had zero heat created. All this lore to get rid of them was because a lot of the early content was stolen from Macross, and they were a bit too on the nose, and they were too strong, because the two-hit was based on your movement type, not distance, but to hit you was based on how far you moved, so moving 15 hexes made you almost impossible to hit, but you could get right behind them and shoot them in the back with weapons strong enough to kill assault mechs in a single strike.
Thanks for the share.
Aren't there any quad or tripod lams?
Love LAMs ,spanning from Robotech , I love the Phoenix Hawk LAM. Yes it is silly for battle , but I do love them none the less. As always I look forward to your videos, they are entertaining and informative.
Thank you!
It came from Macross, Mospeada and a few others. Robotech just stole the glory in the US.
Macross, Army of the Southern Cross, and Mospeada were the three individual series in Japan that were combined into one story line under the name Robotech to meet US syndication requirements for weekday cartoon programming.
Many BattleTech designs came from Macross, the most popular and most recognizable series of the group. Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Archer, Warhammer, Rifleman, and Marauder were all Macross designs.
I too was a big LAM player due to my love of Robotech...not Macross but Robotech as that is how I was introduced to the series here in the US. Gen1/Macross was always my favorite and I would design entire lances of LAM units...usually 55 ton units as that was the maximum size allowed under the second version of the rules (first version allowed any size and 100 ton LAMs are pretty funny to imagine though I did create a few before the rules were clarified).
In battle, it's all about how they are used. They aren't brawlers and they will quickly die if used as such. Hit and run is where they live. I used mine to harass and soften up approaching opponents staying in Air-Mech mode and jumping 10+ hexes every turn to maximize the targeting difficulty for return fire. They usually carried enough firepower that once the other units engaged my regular mechs, the target would have to decide to expose his rear to my LAM or to another mech. When the C3 computer was available, they made great spotter units allowing my heavier units to target an opponent from very long ranges without the range penalty. In a proper team, they were a powerful component.
The AirMechs could be very useful depending on the rules. The older rules basically let them jump continually without heat penalty, making them very fast units that were hard to hit. I had designed a LAM that carried an AC20 once. It was terrifying if you could get it to jump behind someone and unload at point-blank range
Since then, I have heard there have been two new LAM rulesets, with the latest set making them basically useless.
Battletech , and Robotech had the same artist make their drawings of their units. The artist sold them both the same pictures. Oddly he never got sued .
Hopefully he got rich :D
I consider the Land-Air-Mechs to be a silly design but at the same time I like how they went through painstaking details to show that the transformation feature of the LAM was the greatest weakness.
One thing about the dispute, from what I've read and was stated about HG contracts, they had the animation rights, but what FASA licensed was the image and the company they got that from had the world wide rights to the static images. I'm not a lawyer and I've never seen the contracts but HG sucks
From my understanding it's pretty complicated and due to the way that the Japanese property's copyrights (images, animation, songs, story, publication, etc...) are divided up and handled by different companies. At the time of the original lawsuits the rights for Macross belonged to some five or so different companies, thus causing the confusion and legal drama. As I remember it the results of the suit were that Big West owns the designs for the various mecha but HG can produce new print publications containing the designs in the west, release more copies of the Robotech series but not produce any new animation containing the Macross designs.
Not entirely correct. FASA licensed toys which was supposed to include use of the images. At the time Tatsunoko had all rights to Macross and HG licensed Macross and 2 other anime to create Robotech. Hence HG sued and FASA decided to settle.
@@darkstorminc According to the legal summary I saw it got pretty complicated. Not just FASA but the Exo Squad wave 2 toys that were Macross designs. Necessarily the Japanese IP holder for the designs, by that time Big West, got involved. After much legal wrangling the judge ruled that Big West owned the images but that certain licenses, mostly HG would continue, though now more limited in use, hence the lack of new Macross based animation on HGs part. I believe the use of the Southern Cross images also got limited as well.
@@pouncerlion4022 Southern Cross and the Invid arc are pure Tatsunoko iirc. Within Robotech though there is no real reason to continue with that story while the Invid arc had more room for growth hence Shadow Chronicles(?) and the failed Sentinels. Imo Southern Cross was just crap anyway, even as a kid it made no sense compared to Macross and Invid Invasion.
As far as exo squad didnt FASA sue over one or more designs being a little too close to the clan battlemechs?
@@darkstorminc with Sentinels going forward was the right choice, though I remember an article where they were talking about the necessity of redesigning the characters and dropping the Valkyries due to some copyright issues. They didn't have quite the same trouble with the comics (Valkyries and Zent stuff do show up there) due to the different copyright for them.
I do not know about FASA in the Exo Squad suit.
Limited to 55 tons, you say?
No wonder there weren’t any in the Lyran Commonwealth. Fifty-five tone is what you call a chassis with no armor or weapons outfitted.
lol
Imagine an Atlas LAM.
Would be like an AC-130 that could also stomp you into the ground.
I find the technical limitations to be a little too strict by even Battletech standards. As the Transformation can be simplified.
Thank you so much for a LAM video. They are either very specialized death hoses when used right or masters of none that get killed easy.
Glad you liked it.
Been watching these videos for a little while and I think that the coolest part of this universe is how grounded it is. They have a combo ground/air mech, and instead of being a super dangerous monster it ends up being an “awesome on paper, but impractical in practice” sort of thing for entire realistic and believable reason
Frankly I wish that they managed to make it work.
LAMS are my favorite mech. They have triple jump jets in gerwalk mode. You get back shots anytime you want basically. Plus in jet mode they can straif and attack every target in that line with 6 times the heat dissipation. Thats epic!
How about this? You build a CAS gunship with extra engine power to carry a mech, that way you still got a mech and a CAS plane while keeping production and logistics relatively easy and cheap.
too much common sense, begone!
I always loved LAMs, there were one of the things that caught my eye when I first got into BattleTech and got my first TRO.
I know they're flawed and fairly heavily so, but the coolness factor outweighs a lot of that. I also got lead to Macross from LAMs in BattleTech, and huge Macross fan that I am, I have to thank them for that.
It's a shame they keep getting written out of canon, it seems like internal disagreements keep putting them in and out of the setting.
Also yes, would love to see more videos about LAMs as well.
The only mention of one I remember in significance is the merc pilot Brian Seagrove in the novel Far Country who pilots a Phoenix Hawk LAM
Also, there is the parody UrbanMech LAM that got a visual design by an official illustrator xD
Thanks for your input :)
LAM Urbanmech.
All the Improved JJ's and a Partial Wing. An Urbie with 2/3/6 rating I think. Lol
Nowhere in the city is safe when BatUrbie is on patrol.
Its hardly aerodynamic though.
But if you give it fins, it would look like a bomb, which would perfectly justify dropping a company of them out of an Overlord and watching the ensuing chaos from orbit.
Damn! Quite a prediction come true!!!😮😊
More LAM videos please! Great job! You made a vid that is informative and entertaining. I am looking forward to seeing more LAM videos.
Glad you enjoyed it!
LAM's were basically really awesome helicopters before they changed the rules....because they were too good I guess
In the original rules (and most rules until the lawsuit) you could do an 18 hex charge at head level with your legs
Direwolves/Dashi's really didn't like that
Just replace rocket/jet engines with Fusion rocket engines and reap the long range capability.
That was the first and one of only 3 metal minis mechs I've owned
Land-Air Mechs, transforming before the transformers!
😍
Thank you. Starting a Mechwarrior game with a huge robotech fan based on planet Gibson. Last holdout of Blake’s forces. They may just find a redoubt with some of these new three designs. They are going to have some really wet dreams if they can ever figure out how to pilot them and eventually get off a dead planet with no HPG
Jade Falcon had a facility on huntress the capitol for smoke jaguar that was working on LAMs. Aiden Pryde best friend and Freeborn Mechwarrior horse went to it and got into a romantic relationship with a true born bloodnamed Mechwarrior. Two of the pilots for the program were trueborn aero fighter pilots who were injured and so worked as these qusi fighter/mech pilots for the program. It was a cool book and it saw the start of operation bulldog. I felt smoke jaguar and the clans got a rotten deal with that plot. After the Loss to comstar the stories got worse to atrocious.
like how the lam manual had EXPLOSIONS on the cover
Everything is better with explosions.
I can't help but wonder why nobody ever thought of building a pure Airmech, as they seem to be the biggest advantage a LAM has. (the Airmech movement of a Phoenix Hawk LAM for example gives it a faster movement speed than a Fire Moth using it's MASC.) Just get rid of the alternate mech and fighter modes; Without the conversion gear, the engineers might even have simplified the design enough that advanced tech could be used in it's construction.
The parts manufactured by Lexatech industries werent just good for the Stinger and Wasp LAMs, the Spotlight: Crescent Hawks book points out that the 'Hawks raided Irece specifically to get parts for their Phoenix Hawk LAM.
The NOT allowing the LAMs to use newer, better technology is just b/s & hate from the usurper running the franchise into the ground.
Wished that the company that makes all the mech warrior games would make an updated game complete with protomechs, battlesuits and LAM's thrown in there for one hell of a variety
Might be hard to balance.
That's what mods are for. I know for a fact that there is a LAM mod for HBS BattleTech, but not sure about MW5.
Hey Grimdark. PWWKA. It’s a welsh word and spelled in English it’s pooka. Ie: a dark faerie shape shifter known for leading men to their deaths. The two W’s are pronounced as a long O sound 🙂
Bless you for explaining that. I can actually talk about it more now.
Well look up Pooka or the other spellings of it. It could take the shape of a black horse. Or a duck or many things. It’s an interesting British folklore faerie.
Also. I’ve been watching/ listening to your videos since you posted hp love craft stuff a few years back then the battletech novels. Hoping you read a few more. Also. I loved the Warhammer empire soldier novels you read. Just glad people like you are out there.
Thank you for explaining that!
First saw this in the PC Game, BattleTech on Pacifica...Jason YoungBlood?...and the book novel, Freebirth, Twilight of the Clans 3?
They weren't in trouble because they ripped off somebody, they were in trouble because they paid the bribe to the wrong person. The LAM models were paid to the company that designed the toys the models were based on, but the company that created the designs got upset and wanted a peice. Battletech, the company got upset since they were already were paying for the license to use the design and LAMs were regulated to the "Unseen" designs.
FAS licensed the designs straight from the japanese studio, and harmony gold, the US distributor of macross sued them because they held US distribution rights for the show. Not IP rights for the designs in it, but sistribution rights for the show. It was always spurious, but FASA chickened out.
Thank you for making this video. My favorite mechs are the LAMs. I hope for the next kickstarter that cgl does also includes plastic LAMs. Just don't mention them on their current KS because you will get attacked by a couple of grognards.lol
I'd love to see separate videos on each of the LAM units.
I'll probably do those videos :)
I dont see CGL ever making plastic LAMs
I'd love to see a two mode LAM that is an omni mech. Make it a support specialist that can supplement VTOL craft and other Aero assets.
@@barrybend7189 do the rules even support an omni LAM?
@@darkstorminc my idea is for a new post Jihad LAM that can be both tabletop and MWO compatible.
I did not realise you like mechwarrior nice
I'm rather partial to the "fake" Clan LAM. The Cougar XR. I even put together a custom variant that jumps 10 hexes and can fire its two ER medium pulse lasers and four er small lasers while remaining heat neutral.
These remind me of some grunt units from Armored Core V/Verdict Day. Quite cool looking, just not too viable sounding.
LAM's as useful as they are on the battlefield are not a true replacement for actual aerial atmospheric, space, atom-space fighters or mechs in general, they are effective in hit and runt tactics or scouting operations behind enemy lines, and can be a real pain in the ass for assault and heavy meach, however, the pilots themselves will be outmatched when facing rocket & flack batteries, this sort of tactic was proven by the operation carried out by Star League who had learned after losing a good deal of their main forces in the wars for the Periphery when facing guerilla rebel forces, who used this sort of tactic in retaliation they started to employ rocket and flack batteries, guarded by power armor, light and medium mech with tanks and infatry forces, however this was the last part of the Leagues great efforts to keep things in check. This tactics would be well remembered however, by many other forces who would want want controll over those sectors,
Nice work hate that thay sold out Lam's love them have so much potential in the game all abandoned due to cost :(
The lam urbie is best urbie.
The "Other Sources" was the Macross Valkaries, they also got the designs for the unseen from Macross, the unseen are the Archer, Rifleman, Warhammer, Marauder, Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, Longbow, and Phoenix Hawk. While Studio Nue/Big West had no problem with Fasa using the designs and even gave their permission to use them the legal battle to place with Harmony Gold who adamantly insisted that they owned the images despite only gaining distribution rights from Tatsunoko who themselves only have distribution rights for only the very first Macross series, not ownership rights like Harmony Gold claimed. This along with how they treated Big West, the creators and owners of Macross as well as the fans of Macross earned Harmony Gold allot of hate, I really mean ALLOT of hate. It got so bad that at one point Big West openly encouraged pirating of the show in Western countries because they couldn't make any money from it in those areas, wanted the fans to enjoy the show and spread it which would lead to purchasing of merchandise (the only way to make money from it in those regions) while giving a huge middle finger to Harmony Gold, which Big West for decades rightly and openly said they stole their property and that they couldn't believe they were allowed to get away with it.
I never had an LAM in game, always fascinated by them, but sadly never had nor needed one. Thanks for covering them!
TLDR: they saw macross/robotech and they was like, HA free real estate because japan would never find out.
to be honest LAM should just have either battlemech mode or airmech mode and have the fighter mode as default, remove the third transformation, so production can be simplified.
though that's just my point of view
Would definitely make things simpler.
The viper should be an dedicated air mech
I forgot to ask if you might read some of the short stories from the old battletechnology magazine? In issue #15 there's a short story about a combine MechWarrior who uses his LAM against the clans during the beginning of the invasion.
Where might one find these magazines ? I have no idea if I can make the time to narrate anything atm, unfortunately, though.
They are old magazines from the 80's and 90's. They're no longer available ☹️ unfortunately.
I only know of it because I found a PDF of one years ago.
@@GrimDarkNarrator a buddy of mine might have it on PDF. I'll have to contact him later. Do you have an email I can contact you on?
There is a contact email in all my video descriptions :)
What about a quad or tripod land air mech? Like a dropship sized tripod swirling with mortars and ac20s
This isn't Warhammer :D
11:45 ha nice 40k reference
Never played battletech but i liked the LAM with it's asshole pilot in that BT novel where Kuritia troopers misjump into another reality and conquer an primitive alien civilisation and where the savage ones end up killing eachother for power and ego.
....Always liked LAMs, though most tended to scoff at it. Such an unorthodox machine needs an unorthodox mind to employ properly.
i seem to remember battletech fighting with robotech and transformers over this
I still have 4 unseen LAMs
That's quite a few.
@@GrimDarkNarrator Phoenix Hawk, 1 Wasp/Stinger, and 2 Stinger/Wasp. Not sure on the lights, but they total 3.
Bull shit. They didn't rip anyone off. They had a license from Japan. It's not their fault Harmony Gold flaked out on a promised Robotech RPG. #FuckHarmonyGold.
alright i been wondering that also "LAM"
Robotech ripped off Battletech. Thats why an arbitrator FINALLY ruled in Battletech's favor.
The original "Unseen" were straight copied from Robotechs source IPs. Robotech is an American smashup of multiple animes. FASA won because they were operating in good faith while HG was being a bunch of scammers
BattleTech is just Fang of the Sun Dougram: The Board Game with some filler mechs from Macross. FASA didn't create anything new before TRO3050
I can see the uses, however, I'm sure, conventionally, the complexity and sensitivity of such a machine's systems must be a BITCH to repair and manage upkeep. I just wonder if somewhere, in the distant past, someone sat at a drawing board and thought "Now, if I just stick this helicopter prop on an Urbanmech...?" And then, someone shot him...
Aka Gundam
A massive be pile of lawsuit. That's what LAM'S are. Harmony Gold can knit socks in Helvatia.
Haha
Clan Wolf
Macross!!
All of the a my favorite even it's stupid idea gives could designed
They should learn more from Macross / Robotech designers >:D
P.S. Watch Macross Plus ...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
"Oh, sweet, GDN's new video." *What are Land-Air Mechs?* 🤢
lol
I picked up a Screamer in the RogueTech PC game. It was an automatic addition to any drop that required a fast scout or harassment.
Sometimes the ability to jump behind units from across the map, unload into a vulnerable back, and then bug out again is priceless.
However, all the designs pictured are god-awful. None of them fit the aesthetic look of BattleTech. They all look more like Gundams, which are horrible abominations deserving to be ridiculed and mocked. Stupid Gundams.
Yeah. I wish Shoji Kowamori and Studio Nue can redesign the LAMs for tabletop and for games.
These new designs are terrible. That being said, the true strength if LAMs is with deep recce, espionage and sabotage. I have always thought (for what it is worth) that they should carry detachable pods. Pods that can carry equipment, people, or even men in battle armor. LAM could drop down from space, land a team and retrieve them. A LAM could give fire support to that team (a mech suddenly tearing through a quiet sector would spread panic) IF there was little risk of that valuable machine being lost.
Sounds like some great design ideas :)