The Difference Between Narcissism and Emotional Abuse Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- If you’ve watched our videos, you've heard us use the term narcissism and emotional abuse, and you might be wondering why we almost always use those two terms simultaneously. They are not the same thing, but there are many overlapping characteristics, and many of the people we work with here at the Marriage Recovery Center have both narcissistic traits and emotionally abusive traits. In this video Dr. Hawkins explains the differences and similarities between a narcissist and an emotional abuser.
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Dr. Hawkins and his team of experts offer education and professional training as well as treatment for narcissistic and emotional abuse.
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About
The internet is inundated with hyperbole and misinformation about narcissism, leaving many people confused and hopeless. Get the facts about narcissism and emotional abuse from someone who has been researching, writing about and treating narcissism and emotional abuse for over a decade.
Dr. Hawkins is a best-selling author and clinical psychologist with over three decades of experience helping people break unhealthy patterns and build healthier relationships. He is the founder and director of the Marriage Recovery Center and the Emotional Abuse Institute which offers education, training and counseling for people who want to break free of, and heal from, emotional abuse.
Whether the perpetrator of the abuse is your spouse, partner, parent, boss, friend or family member, we offer practical advice for anyone trapped in a toxic, destructive relationship. In addition to narcissism & emotional abuse, topics include covert, reactive, spiritual, secondary, relationship trauma and more.
#narcissist #narcissism #emotionalabuse
I think it’s very sad that we have so many people living with so much pain and not understanding where it’s coming from or how to fix it. Including me.
🙏
If they are not adding to the goodness (meaning they come with joy, peace, love, happiness, too) then best to exit stage left because when it comes to a spouse in particular that’s paramount and home shouldn’t be a burden that someone willfully and gladly hands you and even gets a kick out of it.
I was married to an emotionally abusive man for over 20 years. Everyone always said what a nice guy he was, including my children. None of them knew what I had to deal with for years. I was happy to get out of that marriage and find someone that loved me unconditionally.
Me too ❤
Hearing stories like yours gives me hope.
Yes my husband was helpful and considerate to other and he appeared to be my nice guy. But he was emotionally abusive to me and controlling with the kids. We all walked on egg shells. I was nervous to speak up. Our marriage ended many years ago, after we were married 23 years.
I had to leave cause I felt like I was seriously going nuts.
I think my partner is emotionally abusive. You cleared it up for me, because he doesnt check all the narcissist boxes. It hurts the most that he gives everyone else kindness and consideration, but is cold and critical and impatient with me.
I can totally identify with you. My husband was the same
It was very hurtful to see him be jokey and kind to others but gruff with me. I damaged something in me.
Yes I agree . Very cruel to me in the most unbearable words I hear him say to me but very cruel to my . But in my behalf to my Dr . No he yelled at them mistreating them on how wrong they r caring for me . I lost a lot of doctors , I have MS so I need someone to I’m not bedridden but . So hard to deal with . I didn’t c this side of him till after marriage .
There are narcissistic people that do not take center attention. There are ones that act like a sweet, charming, shy, person. But they in fact like to see you be tortured if you cross them. Sex is something that is a given if your sick they don't care. They will destroy you and you will have no idea what happened. Be careful.
@@lucydowney9834Do you ever think his treatment of you caused your MS? Walking on eggshells every single day, isn’t healthy for the immune system. You may be interested in Dr. Terry Wahls book, “The Wahls Protocol” on how she cured her MS with diet and nutrients. She was in a recumbent wheelchair. Now she rides her bike for miles. Best wishes to you.
Currently here.. so tired and just.. done 😢
This is the first time that I've hit on a video that absolutely NAILS my situation! It's the first one that confronts the issue of emotional abuse WITHOUT conflating it with narcissism.
I am trying to end my marriage with an emotionally abusive husband. And I agree with everything you said. My husband is nice and generous to others, help others, but try to dominate me by putting me down.
I really thought my husband was a narcissist or at least had some traits. Listening to this video now I think he might be an emotional abuser. I see where they easily get confused. Either way my sons & myself paid the price for many years. I thought he also had Border line personality disorder. I am constantly searching for answers on why my relationship has been such a train wreck. We live as married singles.😢
Oh my goodness !! That’s me ! We also have 2 sons, 1 is a young adult and another still in high school - and they suffer silently watching us incompetent parents …….
and my health suffered greatly ‼️
The nightly large glass of red wine is my companion now ……. We also live as married singles 😲🫢😳🥺
The narc will act however they want when ever they want.
Emotional abuser only does it when no one’s around .
Could also be a COVERT narcissist.
My husband is a covert narc and does not suck the energy out of a room verbally or overtly brag except within our own family to our grown kids. But he does love to make a show out of how he engages with others whereas he utterly neglects me. He is also very emotionally abusive to me while treating others like gold
Please leave him if you can...God did not create you to be abused..you deserve to be with someone who cherishes you, as you do him.
You just described a covert emotional abuser. We hope you are getting the help you need to help.
I agree. Not all narcissistic subtypes are grandiose extroverts sucking the air out of the room. My dad was the neglectful, covert/vulnerable subtype. It's all according to their source of validation and admiration.
Shortly after exchanging “I do’s” at the alter mine stared treating me terrible, the lies, the manipulation, the provocative arguments (just to win), the days upon days of silence….
I finally told him, “ I can’t do this anymore, you have to leave.”
Sure it ruined a whole summer, but I fully well saved my life too.
my well-being matters.
My physical health was beginning to be affected.
I learned about covert narcissism at the suggestion of an attorney.
I don’t know what he was for sure but he fit 8 of the 10 on the list I read.
Being with someone like that hurts us in ways, you’ve heard the saying, “death by a thousand cuts”???
Go heal.
Get the help sooner rather than later.
Best wishes to you.
✨💖✨
It’s not easy
Yes same. I loved someone who gave everyone kindness and attention, and all he did was take from me, and intentionally ruin my heart, and stole my money. Crazy thing is he was/is respected at work, and he knows no one would believe me if I said anything. Crazy.
Dr. Hawkins, my 'x' was emotional abusive, I attributed that mostly due to him being narcissistic, everything he did was for his own benefit, he had no empathy, I didn't matter to him, except when he wanted to be seen as a happily married man. He reminded me frequently that he didn't do anything wrong and he did not hurt my feelings. He told me he was a great husband because he allowed me to live in his home. He wasn't grandiose in a crowd as you describe, but would sit silently. In a small group, he could be loud and he frequently embellished his background and accomplishments, to the point I hated being with him when he talked like that, I felt like an accomplice to his lies, if anyone knew the truth or if they would ever find out the truth. He was always nice to folks out in public, at church, even my grown sons. When I decided I couldn't take it anymore and began the process of leaving him, everyone said 'he's so nice'. I could go on and on. So, with my 'x', comparing to your list in the video, there is not a clearly defined distinction from narcissism and emotional abuse, but more like mostly both, or at a minimum some of both. I could write a book on all he did and said, I have worked with people all my life, career in healthcare and many years before that in retail, never have I experienced a person like that. It's a lot like getting hit by a train and drug down the track for a couple hundred miles, still alive.
Thank God you overcame the extreme gaslighting and went against popular opinion and acted on the truth of the situation. I’m just guessing but I imagine that sex with a person like that would feel a bit like rape 😢
I encourage you to write that book...it could help so many others.
So sorry for your experience...May God give you 'beauty for ashes'...Amen.
Sounds like you experienced the full extent of living with a narcissist. We hope you have found healing for your soul. Thanks for sharing
I can relate to just about everything you wrote....i am currently divorcing my husband. The life of hell was too much to bear.
@@christineploeg1992’Sex’ with these people is rape. They have no regards for your safety or pleasure, will make you act like you like it too to avoid their anger.
I left after 28 years of marriage. Thank you for distinguishing between the two terms. The father of my children exhibited traits of both. I'm alone for 3 years now. I still feel tired, but so empowered after starting over. I thought I was going to be lonely, but after the silent treatment and being called a parasite, I'm happy alone. I'm a teacher, so my life is busy and my friends and mom have been so supportive since Jan 2020✨✨✨🌈🌈🌈
I have often described my husband as the nicest guy you ever met unless you were me. This matches my experience. The clarity of this presentation is most helpful. The confusion of living with abuse from a person who is kind to everyone else is so very real and deeply painful. Thank you. My question is how does this differ from the covert narcissist? Is this descriptor ‘covert narcissist’ simply incorrect terminology?
OMG I was going to ask the same question as your question. Is an emotional abuser the same as a covert narcissist or not? That's a little confusing to me. Also, your story sounds exactly like mine. I've always said my husband is "the nicest guy in the room"....unless you're me. 😞
My experience is the same to a degree, in my case tho also very tough and abusive on our young children.
Interested in a poll as to how many women experience this versus men.
What is this strange behavior, this incongruity of identity and personhood? What is this when a person like this doesn't see his incongruity, dissociates from self, truly disorders his identity and absolutely clueless, no conscience about it.
Also I have learned how very deceptive is charm.
Typically narcissistic behaviors are on full display for everyone, although not always, while covert emotional abuse happens behind closed doors. There are cases where narcissists only show that side in certain situations but that is more rare.
Sounds like covert or vulnerable narc to me.
@@drdavidbhawkinsI think we are needing a clear picture between Covert narcissists vs Emotional abuser. They seem to be one in the same. What are, if any, what are clear distinctions between the two?
What about borderline men? Fear of abandonment = vengeance, extreme silent treatment, extreme victim complex, severe financial abuse and controlling/ isolating, very intimidating and threatening, I’m the blame of all my own abuse, he’s just an innocent victim of circumstance ‘what else was I supposed to do’. Rationalizing/ justifying all abuse TO ME.
I'm sorry you are suffering. There is hope whether you are both Christians or not. As a Christian myself, I try to address everything through a Biblical lens and many times the same principles apply. Counsel does change depending on whether one is a professing Christian or not.
To answer your question... There is no borderline sin....Sin is sin, so if (I'll use myself as the example).... if I'm being unkind, gossiping, withdrawing time or communication or affection, not forgiving, becoming bitter, remaining angry, etc.... these are all sins that can be manifesting from just a few root causes... usually some form of pride and idolatry which causes us not to trust God which leads us to do things our way to try to control the situation. Many times, our sinful reactions are attempts to regain control or coerce our spouse. Battles of control are commonplace usually involving disrespect from the wife and actions that are interpreted as un loving by the husband. These both, left un corrected, will usually provoke and escalate a negative response. Many times one spouse provokes the other (which is not a good excuse for a sinful reaction), but it's up to us to handle the "issue" or conflict the right way to get the relationship back on track. Each person is responsible to God for how they respond to any "provocation". The devil doesn't make us do anything. We choose practically everything, so there are rarely any good excuses (worthy). Every man or woman is a temptation and weak moment from doing something they will regret the rest of their lives, so it's very important to walk in God's Holy Spirit to have the power to respond in love. Typically, at some point, every marriage carries un resolved conflicts for years which fester and compound into bitterness and anger.
Again, there is hope, and it takes time and effort to learn how to resolve conflicts Biblically that will minimize the conflict and speed resolution and reconciliation. Living in un resolved conflict is painful suffering, and most of the time, it affects the wife more than the man since she is usually more relational and she usually has a stronger desire for agreement. Every person is going to be slightly different. Most men don't really know what it means to be a Godly man or how to act like one, so they don't really know how to cherish their wife and love them as Christ loves His church. Sure, every blind squirrel finds a nut, and every man can do a few things right, but we should strive for so much more. He has to want to please God more than himself or he will act selfishly.... bank on that one. Non Christians are mainly doing things largely for personal benefit which lends to manipulation tactics (Christians do the same... just not usually as much). Each spouse cannot make the other do anything, but we can change ourselves. God has to mold and make each person which takes time and usually trials that you both have to go through.
I hope this is somewhat helpful.... albeit limited. There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors.
@@sonnyh9774 thank you so much for your reply! Yes I spent many years in consideration of my actions being the problem, to the point that I was behaving ‘perfectly’ if that makes sense, so that he had nothing to accuse me of anytime I would need to ask him to please stop abusing me. It took years to realize that he had NPD, in fact, he actually went to marriage recovery Center and quit the program. He has behaved so unhinged and unstable, he’s an alcoholic, he’s refused rehab and quit AA. He was admitted to a mental hospital for threatening suicide, was diagnosed bipolar 1 and borderline personality disorder. He refuses to take his medication, doesn’t have any concept how his behaviour affects anyone else… and is in constant punish and revenge mode now that I’ve separated. I’m accused of cheating constantly, although I’m celibate and not dating at all. I could go on forever explaining the egregious things he’s done to my daughter and I…
Yet… I forgave… and kept trying to help him get help. I’ve been kind, regulated, and I’ve put all the trauma aside to try to reason with him that his actions are not at all as ‘normal’ as he seems to think they are. Because he has BPD, he’s so emotionally unstable and easily slighted, that just a simple truth, like ‘no the package arrived today not yesterday’ causes a HUGE tantrum and him verbally abusing me, calling me names, yelling at me, blaming me for his reaction, and his weeks of stonewalling/ silent treatment afterward. I am unable to have even a simple conversation about our daughters basic needs now without him either hanging up 30+ times, or if it’s in person, he will simply get up and walk out… or, I had him actually once run out the back door and jump the fence, to escape accountability for not taking care of our daughter like he promised he would.
I have let my conduct be the influence, and I’ve tried to have him understand Jesus, and Gods idea of a healthy relationship, but he has so egregiously mocked and denied Jesus to my face, and has harmed me so badly in those moments, that I question whether or not there might be a demonic spirit inside him that leads his life.
Unfortunately I wish our issues were simple communication issues, or mutual disrespect issues, however they are not. In fact, the more Godly and loving, stable, forgiving and kind I am and demonstrate, the WORSE the abuse becomes, because the goal is to get me to react poorly, so he can use my reaction to excuse how abusive he is. I used to snap and yell and be mean to him after 6-8 hours of him crazy making me anytime I needed to have a talk about something…. But after watching David Hawkins videos and reading his books, I know that the best reaction is grey rock… but it also just escalated his acting out to a degree I never thought I’d ever have to deal with. Dare I call him a monster… but he is a monster now, and his reality is not the same one we live in sadly. His psychiatrist even sat me down to tell me ‘your reality is real… hold on to that ok? His version, is not.’ The only time I saw a glimpse of empathy or remorse on him ever in 11 years, was the first 2 days of taking antipsychotics… but it went away on day 3.
I’ve since separated and I will be divorcing him, and allowing him to find God and have full control of his life without me to blame for how he is. I refuse to stay with a man that just my existence alone causes him to sin against me, our family and God in some way. I’m cutting me off… so at least his sin pile can be less. This has helped my daughter and I to not live in fear, worry, sadness, oppression and sickness constantly, and when I left, it was like the heaviness and black cloud is gone. I leaned in to God very hard for the last 1.5 years praying that he show me what I’m dealing with, and what to do… well, he has is an enormous undeniable way. God will NOT allow our relationship to continue or improve no matter how many times I go back to try. He completely parted the Red Sea, now I’m free from pharroh. He has given me back the years the locust ate, and made a table for me in front of my enemies. He has taken care of the justice needed with my ex in many shocking ways… that lead me to fear God more than ever. I would never want to be on the wrong side of God like my ex is after seeing his power. God has shown himself to me in so many ways through this. I used to say I had a strong faith prior to trying to leave my ex, but after seeing how God worked and came through for me, held me in his right hand and favoured and protected me… It’s God #1 all the way… it’s like I really do have a physical partner with me, but it’s just God making ways and provisions for us, so my daughter and I are never ashamed. He has proven that he only has plans to prosper us, not to harm us and to give us hope and a future… he’s healed our hearts and sicknesses, and is renewing everything. It’s so incredibly humbling to experience the power of Gods love, and what having God as your father really means. His words have comforted and validated every move I’ve made, and he peeled the scales from my eyes to see what I was really dealing with. He allowed lies to surface that I needed to know, infidelity you surface that I didn’t know about, slander that I didn’t know about, and severe financial abuse… it HURT so badly I can’t even explain how traumatic it was… but he knew how confused and disillusioned I was with my ex, and that it was going to take a lot for me to realize the truth about him. He dripped out these realizations over about 9 months…. and each time was another severe betrayal worse than the previous. It still took me a long time to realize that forgiveness didn’t mean reconciliation. Each time I forgave and tried to reconcile, the abuse and betrayal worsened beyond the point of safety, so I took my daughter and left him.
@@sonnyh9774 by ‘borderline’ it’s borderline personality disorder, which is on the cluster B spectrum, and namely psychopathy spectrum. He also has many callous, calculated, vengeful and machievellian traits comorbid with psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder. He has no regard for the feelings or needs of others, not our children, dogs, strangers… etc, unless it’s to prop up his public image. He is desperately trying to feign a ‘victimhood’ status to all who will listen, by trying to manipulate people. He seems to have no concept that lawyers, police, and court orders have had to be utilized to control him from harming me, and to force him to financially support his daughter. He has committed tax fraud, and committed felony crimes here in Mexico that may be revealed during the divorce. He seems to believe he’s invincible. Our home country has begun to come after him, freezing his accounts and seizing all his assets due to tax evasion. It’s only a matter of time before they find him here.
So… again, I wish I was married to a man who was just reacting to my disrespect by being disrespectful…. But I am dealing with a whole other entity. Please pray that God has mercy on his soul. Tomorrow is not promised, and unfortunately, God opposes the proud. Sooner or later, God will cut him down, but he doesn’t seem to have a rock bottom. My fear is this ends in completed suicide, the moment I meet a loving Christian man to marry and lead my life. Please pray for us!! 🙏🏻
I’m so sorry that you have had to go through this long and terrible ordeal with your ex. My heart goes out to you and I will pray for you and your daughter. Glad to hear that God has been faithful and placed you upon a solid rock-Jesus!!! Blessings to you as you move forward in life upon this earth!! Yes, He has a wonderful plan for you both!!!
Sounds a lot like narcissism and DARVO. Here is a video that talks about DARVO: th-cam.com/video/PY4CqaHH3vY/w-d-xo.html
This was helpful. My narc also is a spy and snoops on me. He went so far to put a bug in my car to hear my phone conversations. Very creepy.
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your comment
The snooping and spying are all forms of control. The bug in your car, control AND paranoia.
This video was very helpful because for several years I have been thinking my wife has NPD but also constantly finding that the many of the NPD boxes could not be checked, leaving me shaking my head. Your explanation of an Emotional Abuser was spot on to what i have been dealing with for decades! The 3 D's, the primary partner and the quite one are all there. Thank you very much!
This video is so helpful to me!My husband and I recently discovered a few years ago his mom is a covert narcissist. The way my husband treated me throughout 15 years of marriage was emotionally abusive as a result. I did not think he was a narcissist because he is compassionate and empathic and wanted to change his behaviors so now I see the differences.
Dr. Hawkins, I believe you’re doing Gods work by taking the time to post the videos you have been doing. Thank you for that. I want to share based on my own personal experience and that of many different women I have worked with, it’s so important to remind people that narcissism is a spectrum. Although, there are character traits that are similar in the majority of narcissists, how those traits manifest themselves in the behaviors of a narcissist can be very different. I am hesitant to use absolutes when describing the behaviors of a narcissist. For instance, most narcissists believe they are superior however not all narcissists will display that behavior in a way those outside their home could easily identify. I know from personal experience that a narcissist can absolutely feel superior but the majority of the people they come in contact with would have no idea. These type of narcissists are masters at being passive-aggressive /manipulative in a very covert way. And because the narcissist is not self aware a lot of the time they can not see how they are acting superior.
My concern is always to make sure what I am sharing brings light to someone’s life and I know that speaking in absolutes when it comes to a narcissist’s behaviors can be confusing to someone who’s trying to understand what is happening to them.
I appreciate you pointing out that narcissists are emotionally abusive, the fact that they are not self aware adds to the crazy making that is gaslighting. Pointing out the emotionally abusive behavior to a narcissist does not bring about change. If we are going to point out the emotional abuse, it has to be because it’s us standing in our truth and we are safe to do so and not because we think it’s going to initiate any healthy dialogue with the narcissist. To me there is hope, narcissist are not doomed to be a certain way for their whole lives, they can become self aware, it’s very hard work but it is possible.
Thank you for your balanced perspective. We appreciate your comments
Thank you for pointing this out. Not every emotional abuser is a narcissist but every narcissist is an emotional abuser.
But I think exaggerating is definitely a part of emotional abuse, just the reason is another. For example a covert narcissist plays the victim to highlight that they are special. An emotional abuser plays the victim to shift blame and guilt-trip in order to better control you.
I agree with this. My husband is an emotional abuser.
Perhaps the difference between a covert narcissist and an emotional abuser is more a matter of degree versus clear distinction. They are both subtle. I suspect the underlying drivers of the behaviour may also differ. I also suspect the responsiveness to good therapy may be better for an emotional abuser than for a covert N. It is not surprising that this is difficult to tease out. There is a fair bit of overlap. Again my real thanks to Dr. Hawkins who has so generously shared his time and very helpful insights.
This can happen in 'best friend'' & parent/child relationships (both ways) too.
Also occurs towards people with disabilities...or any other 'power imbalance' scenario...not just intimate relationships
Absolutely, thanks for your comment
You are so correct. And great in sticking to the point without rambling. Very enlightening thank you
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your feedback
Thank you. The light bulb went on for me with this one! Appreciate the discussion.
I started watching your channel. Very informative.
My ex-wife was very emotionally abusive to me. She was a mostly good person and highly functional, but would be very mean to me. She refused any effort to get help. She divorced me after I stopped allowing her to abuse me. But she testified under oath that I was "violent and abusive". We could have had a wonderful life together but she burned it all down. I have been in therapy for about 4 years. I am so sad.
I am so sorry for you that the marriage did not work out...but if you are still sad after 4 years of therapy, perhaps look for a different time of therapy. You have much water under the bridge...don't be sad. Be happy that you made the right decision for standing up to her. Learn and find a better way to move on. Be well!
@@misottovoce Sometimes people seek out a Therapist mainly for a 'safe' person to talk to. They're willing to pay the therapy fee just to have that, a safe person to confide in and share their issues with. And it takes time to develop relationship and rapport with a Therapist, so, it may not be a good move to change therapists if you are content with what benefit you're getting from the therapist you've been seeing for so long, IMHO.
@@randy_cbc8811 Very true.
We could of had a good life together but he burned that dream to the ground.
Thank you for this video. It is very informative.
Spot on. My dad emotional abuser, my first husband also, my second husband Narcissist
I’m so sorry
Same
OMG! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your comment
Thank you for the distinctions. That's helpful for the discussions.
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your feedback
Not all narcissists are grandiose and obvious to the outside world, what about covert narcissist versus emotional abuser?
I have been emotionally abused all my life. By my mom and now my husband. I also just found out I have an ulcer.
Very insightful
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your feedback
Agree, the finer points between the two are not always clear? And for sure hard to discern. Thank you
Wow thank you…..would love to hear more comparisons
Glad you found it helpful. We will have a video soon on the difference between NPD and narcissistic traits. Stay tuned.
I was well loved by myself and others for decades. But when tragedy struck, my husband's true colors came out in spades. He seemed to love our daughter more than me & our son. Same pattern for him & his family of birth. Our son is too much like me, and up until now he has held all the power. So I believe EA is more accurate. Thank you.
Glad you found it helpful and you may also find our videos on healing helpful. Hope for Victims of Emotional Abuse
th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Break Free of Emotional Abuse and Heal: th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Thank you! I still find it a little confusing. Mostly because there is so much overlap and there are somethings you have said yes to both and no to EA and Yes to NPD and my ex was not aligned in all places. He has other mental health issues that complicate things as well. It makes me query is change possible, is there hope or just completely walk away.
I still love him and don't know what to do.
How does "emotional abuse" come about, where does it come from? Is it innate, learned, or just develops over time with a partner?
Thank youuuu i could not understand what my ex did to me there was constant confusion he didnt match with narcissism i felt i was in wrong but it isnt true i can term what i went thru as emotional abuse he was emotionally abusive the 3ds of dominance defensiveness and dismissiveness along with misogyny all are in him, i finally feel tht confusion has lifted i can now research more abt this and validate what i felt and understand how his behavior was not normal lift my guilt and eventually heal. You genuinely saved me thanks a lot dr
So glad you found us and hope we can help empower you to heal. Please check out our videos on healing from emotional abuse:
Hope for Victims of Emotional Abuse
th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Break Free of Emotional Abuse and Heal: th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Finding Healing
th-cam.com/video/I5N5t_mQiTA/w-d-xo.html
Only thing I would say here is that you might also have a category of covert narcissist I’m not sure that this would fit in here, but I kind of think maybe where you have an emotional abuser who is a covert narcissist my be somewhere in the middle of these two different descriptions that you give, what are you say to that?
Yep, been there.
My X is a bit of both personalities. Covered hostile on his own way behaviour.
Awesome but I understood there are different types of Narcissism can be overt, covert, antagonistic, communal, malignant...not just the Classic type you are describing?
At the end of the day, does it matter which is which? They’re terrible partners and parents and life with either will never, ever be joyful. Choose one’s own JOY, ask ‘does this actually _feel good_ and am I truly _happy_ or am I living a lie?’- move on from that point. Marriage can occasionally really work but more frequently really, really does not. Choose happiness ❤
My partner fits the emotional abuser better but with narcissistic qualities as well. He exagerrates both his wins and his losses.
Very good video.
When you discover your spouse is NPD, get out of the relationship without delay, and do not have kids.
The older they get the worse they get.
Your health is at risk
I agree on Narc behaviors! Which is harder to live with or are both same?
Both are devastating to a person's identity and well-being. Abusive behaviors are just that - behaviors. Narcissism is a way of thinking and being which is much harder to change.
I agree with Dr. Hawkins' comment. After years of researching narcissistic behaviors, personality, and counseling I continued to question, "is he or not" a narcissist. I finally stopped obsessing over it because addressing the behaviors, regardless of the cause, was most important to me. The difference, as Dr. Hawkins' says, is the outcome. In my case, hubby fits the narcissistic profile, even in counseling (9 in 7 yrs.). He is still in denial, plays the victim, and exhibits what Hawkins terms character pathology, more than than just character traits. After 8 yrs., thousands of dollars, and hundreds of hours of counseling, I quit. My health and sanity became a more important focus.
Thank you! Can someone have both narcissism and also be an emotional abuser? Assuming so! What can you do about any of it? Thank you again!
Yes, we often use the term narcissistic and emotional abuse because one is often also the other, although not always. Here's a playlist of some videos on healing from narcissistic abuse: Healing From Emotional Abuse playlist:
th-cam.com/play/PLzb_gedZa6y5VGEhh3V4Qt_Ksb0CNFdIz.html
This only partially cleared it up for me. I have been dealing with someone that exhibits both. The NPD traits are still only behind closed doors, but he exhibited those in times that the emotional abusive person would not. So, I am still not sure. He has a mix of both of these based on these, but the NPD stuff was still not visible to outsiders. Does that mean covert narcissist and not emotional abuser?
It sounds like the differences between narcissists and untreated victims of trauma. I wonder whether the second category is what they call a covert narcissist who lacks all those traits narcissists own like dominating, grandiosity, theatricality, controlling, entitlement, using people as chess pawns etc. but is still categorized as a narcissist. I always wondered how it's possible. It's just defensiveness, irritability, lack of trust, vigilance, aloofness, being stuck emotionally, longing for validation etc. Untreated ptsd sounds a lot more like that.
Let's hear something about BPD.
It was asked in the comments what is a clear distinction between covert narc or emotional abuser
Just like narcissism can be overt or covert (although in most cases overt), emotional abuse can also be covert or overt. Covert narcissist is likely to be a covert emotional abuser.
My fiance told me that I was a narcissist. I was like???? How's that? She proceeds to tell me several things that have never happened. The things she said practically described herself on a daily basis. (She's an LCSW btw) I have horrible degenerative osteoarthritis, which causes a lot of horrible chronic pain. If I have a bad flare,5 minutes later she's having one that's worse. It's gotten to that extreme 😢
This video was more than excellent 👌 Thank you so much! God Bless You and Yours 🙏
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for your feedback
Yes 💪🏼 9:00
Agree!
What you call an emotional abuser sounds like the "covert narcissist". They don't suck the energy out of a room, they come across as the nicest guy you'd ever meet, so they can be praised and admired. They are very good at hiding their narcissism and use woe is me to manipulate others to comfort and connect with them. The emotional abuse is subtle and usually only for select people like their spouse. I believe my husband is a covert narcissist. I hadn't seen it for so long as I'd only known of the overt type. The control, manipulation, victim hood, only caring about his own wants and needs, emotional affairs, silent treatment, blaming me for his unhappiness, while projecting what he doesn't like about himself onto me, shows me my husband is a narcissist. He just hid it very well.
My husband has both if that make since 😮 and he’s old too. It depends on the situation. 😳
My partner confuses me hes narcissistic with everyone and makes a show of himself when he is around others but he thinks they are all wrong but him, so he now isolates himself and only thinks or talks about wars etc anything i say is wrong and he believes he can fix me lol😊 he can sense when i have had enough of his ranting and turns the conversation into how much he has done for me and that he is the best thing thats ever happened to me and i dont love him as much as he loves me... confusingly he does house work heats up my night clothes before im home from work even thiugh he has been working all day.... so i dont know if its a mental illness he has such as bipolar etc any ideas !
I thought emotional abusers also became abusive from untreated/unhealed trauma(s). I know quite a few. They are numb from neglect themselves so they neglect others.
such a rare observation
I don't think I'm the only one to point this out, but there are some who can be covertly narcissistic. There are many people who don't qualify for NPD, but do have narcissistic tendencies. And I would also add that misandry is on the rise, it's not just male hatred of women. There are many women who are emotional abusers also, that's not just men. I would argue that narcissism in women is harder to identify because it is more often covert.
I’d like to also know the difference between a COVERT narcissist and emotional abuser. Or is that label not important? It seems like their might be hope for an emotional abuser to change - especially if they are a Christian. ??
My narcissist is a very quiet person, which I believe stems from his dad never letting him talk.
Obviously, each narcissist is variable because of their upbringing.
But he isn't loud at all especially when others are around.
He hates being around other people.
So, he saves it all for me.
When he is mad, instead of yelling, he behaves like a toddler who isn't getting his way, throwing fits, flailing his arms around and even stomping his feet.
It's ridiculous.
Sounds like it could be ASD or AuDHD.
Just because he's emotionally stuck doesn't mean he's a narcissist. I think he should definitely try some trauma treatment and build a bridge between his inner child and adult.
Association.
how would we know if its not a covert narcissist if the abuser only abuses the partner?
If they are not covert, it can be seen by everyone, or at least more people than just the one person they are abusing.
My husband doesn’t care for us as a family. He’s a hard worker yes. But he spends all his time on his phone, or he just recently spent thousands at a massage parlor. Or he can help his buddies or visit his friends - which is fine but he doesn’t care about our kids needs their whole childhood . He let us live in poor conditions and didn’t partake in their childhood. Even not allowing our daughters beds because they had bladder problems up til 11. Any time he did spend time with us all he did was scream at everyone and name call and degrade them I remember one time all the kids were making funny sounds and my son was doing it too and he was like 8 and my husband was like “stfu “. Our son couldn’t breath without my husband calling him tetarded or stupid since he was literally one. He even had our yungef daughters attack him and everytime he spent time with the kids he used it as a time to harp abd nag the whole time. I get having three kids is overwhelming and they acted up sometimes but I took them by myself everywhere and we got through the hard times . I was not the greatest mom by any means. I was trying to break cycles of abuse and easily overwhelmed . Sometimes it turned into rage and I’d spank to hard or even one time slapped my daughter practically for no reason 😢. It was hard being isolated my whole marriage and honestly my husband being home as much as I wanted help
And love, and a partner - all he did was yell holler and scream . All I wanted was a family and I am mad because our grown now. I still cannot rely on my husband. My house is in poor conditions. I spent all money to hopefully get house fixed but he won’t let me do the work or hire anyone . After 6 years though we finally don’t have huge holes in the floor . He finally fixed them but the whole time all he did was complain that now he was working two jobs- yet he wouldn’t do anything except on Sunday nights after laying in bed Monday- Saturday besides he went to work but he can visit his buddies and help them make sure their wives cars are fixed or help his uncle move-. Which wouldn’t bother me if I didn’t spend 20 years being completely neglected and alone! Our fights were always him not being home or how he treated our son. He gets drunk a lot. He recently told my kids he resents me and he never wanted a family and kids. I’m not sure if he’s narcissistic or just selfish. He recently said he doesn’t like his job because he doesn’t get recognition. I’m like well most people don’t. But he is a big show off - for other people, just does not care about how me and the kids lived. Oh and I wax a SAHM. I tried working because he was mad I didn’t but the whole time he complained because I was slacking on chores. I was working two jobs day and evening shifts. So since I got injured I’ve been at home babysitting our granddaughter. Which he said to do, which I love doing but he’s mad I’m not making a large income . He decided I need to work to pay his prostitution from massage parlors. Which he admitted but doesn’t know he admitted to cheating . Ughhhhh
Are you willing to live in this emotionally abusive situation endlessly? If so, emotionally disengage from him. Expect nothing from him, relationally. Find your joy in your relationships with other people, especially your children and grandchildren. The only way to survive is not to internalize all the abuse, which is difficult to do. Otherwise, find a way to get out of the situation, especially now that your children are grown. YOU CANNOT FIX OR CHANGE HIM. P.S. If you are not getting counseling, you need to. You need someone to talk to!
So I believe my husband lied more towards an emotional abuser than a narcissist
What if it's a mixture??
Yes, narcissists are often emotionally abusive and emotional abusers are often narcissistic.
Agree
Thanks for your comment, hope you found it helpful
Eh. I’ve had a lot of experience with both. I disagree with some of the things said here. And really what do labels matter, they are both toxic and soul killing.
People need to research the differ by type of narcissists. They are not all grandiose.
Not sure your point. How does this help the one being abused.
Since we often use these 2 terms synonymously, we wanted to clarify the difference and similarities. We have many other videos that address healing, here are just a few: Healing From Emotional Abuse playlist:
th-cam.com/play/PLzb_gedZa6y5VGEhh3V4Qt_Ksb0CNFdIz.html
Where is the video on the 3 D's?
Your definition does not deal with covert NPD who will do exactly what you term as an emotional abuser
It is a sub set of npd and the worst kind
I don’t disagree but wouldn’t you say that the narcissist is inherently emotionally abusive ? It seems like emotional abuse plus* a bunch of the other self centred baggage.
Dr. Hawkins starts the video saying narcissists are almost always emotionally abusive, but not necessarily the other way around, so yes.
Totally agree and clarified he is a narcissist.
Knowledge is power. Now that you know, there are many videos on healing and taking back your power from the narcissist. We wish you the best in your healing journey
Ok, then what would you consider someone that is passive aggressive, plays the victim to get their way, is super sensitive to anything they might consider criticism, even if it's an innocent question about something? Then, after starting a fight on the slimmest of reasons will drag unrelated issues into it and by the time the fight is winding down, the person defending themselves against the unwarranted attack is apologizing (Also known as DARVO), what is this behavior - narcissistic or simply emotional abuse? Just wonder if what I am coming to know as a vulnerable narcissist is simply an emotional abuser, according to your definition?
Most narcissists are emotionally abusive. Not all emotionally abusive people are narcissists.
@@drdavidbhawkins, uh - that didn't answer the question. I am sensing textbook knowledge and no real first-hand knowledge.
Covert narcissism seems to fall under the title of emotionally abusve
My estranged husband almost never drops his mask to others. Love bombed. turned Hyde day after married. ENJOYS harming me emotionally and financially. Plays evil deceptive tricks. Gaslighting galore, lies, cheating, etc. feel he is trying to literally cause my death by stressful conduct considering my age, and anxiety. Then he would walk away scot free having to never accept responsibility as he has been doing all the time. Viscous web. While he has a million$, I have ZERO and fear this divorce I borrowed money to initiate will leave me in horrid shape for his cleverness. Proving to a court in a tort claim of the emotional torture impacting me is my main concern should I also go that route. Haven't had the money to see a therapist or be able to travel to one because of high anxiety. There is a mother complex i think in this where he was dominated/controlled by his Mama all his life. I have been the only one by marriage to be made under his control. Feels he has and is working me over for the "kill" in revenge. Thank you for your video,
Glad you found it helpful, and keep seeking education, information and guidance so you can heal. Here are some videos that we hope will help you take some first steps towards healing:
Hope for Victims of Emotional Abuse
th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Break Free of Emotional Abuse and Heal: th-cam.com/video/u9XkQuHLEJY/w-d-xo.html
Finding Healing
th-cam.com/video/I5N5t_mQiTA/w-d-xo.html
There are many good TH-cam videos on divorcing a narcissist or someone presenting a high conflict relationship. These include counselors as well as divorce attorneys. I also researched a lot of state law on what to expect. It takes some digging and comparing to find common themes. I read many different authors, listened to many different videos, and had a consultation with an attorney who specializes in high conflict divorce. Best wishes and God's blessings for discernment and peace.
Oh my gosh I agree I don't think this is said enough. They take pleasure in harming us. They daydream about it when they are stonewalling us. Mine told me he hopes I die a horrible death. Then said all kinds of hurtful things. Then begins the silent treatment for days. These people are like the devil. And what I was confused about back then is every time this would happen then the next day or few days when he was back to talking to me again. He wouldn't even acknowledge how mean he was. He would say something like he's just poking the bear. That it didn't mean anything.
As far as the divorce. I got a divorce with him in agreement that we truly go our separate ways financially exactly how the cards are. I would say that I really lost thousands when I think about it but everyone loses in divorce! It's better to not lose any more of your sanity!
It was the fastest and best way to get out of this horrific situation. FYI the horrific situation is being in contact with these people even after you separate. I had an ongoing case of not feeling well so long as I was connected to him.
Money is overrated. Just get the hell out and don't talk to him again after divorce. Mine is permanently blocked and he even knows it and has let me be. We both together check the box that says no alimony etc. Give them the peace they need so they will leave you the hell alone.
You're going to lose money in the divorce regardless.
Covert narcs are not usually sucking up all the air in the room.
Yes you are right
You left out the other charming character-the covert narcissist, which doesn’t fit the typical narcissist stereotype. He’s much more stealth in his traits.
Grandiose narcissists take up all the air in the room. Covert narcissists are much quieter.
Yeah, I don’t know if there is a real differential here….abuse is abuse….it doesn’t matter how far down the narcissism spectrum that abuse comes from….it’s still abuse! And there are overt narcissists who “suck up the oxygen in the room “ publicly and there covert narcissists who are way more secretive about the abuse! I think that’s the real difference is where abuse comes from! I fail to see the differential here, if you emotionally abuse someone you fall on the spectrum for narcissism someplace, whether it’s overt or covert doesn’t matter!
😢
Please help me if you can
My neighbors trying to kill me over me saying no to dating them and I've been confined to my unit went to jail once over that no they have been manipulating my disorder of autism as bullying I do not feel safe
I might not make it to see age 38 and I've never lived above a narcissist until noe
Till now I mean and I have no where else to move to
Covert narcissists aren't the same as overt narcissists. Coverts seem more similar to standard emotional abusers than overts do
Re:
th-cam.com/video/eXJJLQcCh_k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GdHALcnBhDs9qQpT
I WONDER if the spouse is the singular target of abuse BECAUSE of the facet of Biblical marriage described in Gen.2:25/AMPC:
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not embarrassed or ashamed in each other's presence.
---
Spouses, by God's design, can SEE each other's uncomely parts (faults, needs, shortcomings, fears, strongholds, disordered desires, etc.)...to help each other grow in God...
However, narcs and abusers PUNISH their spouses for KNOWING their "shameful truths"!
?????
They are the same thing.
Is it not covert nascist, my abuse me and my kids secretly, he drnks heavily, he pretend to the world nice guy .that is what i saw when i met him, he don't suck energy as well, but he is angry person, he use control, he feels good after putting his anger on others ,, he enjoy making people down, gossiping about people on their down in life realy makes hom happy, when im not taking part in the gossip because i dont feel good about gossiping others, he gets angry,, he has a lot of anger and he transfers his anger to me and the kids covertly if you confront him ,he pretends nothing happened. And never say sorry when he still your peace. He is a nice guy who goes to church 3-4 times in every week. He neglect all my concerns. He tired all times, he sits in the sitting room if his friend is around or his relatives, when only me and our kids at home he sleep in his blanket telling us how he needs to rest, he is pushed me away from receiving his full attention, if he sits with family he dont know how to talk to us ,all he does is making everyone angry .he covertly pushed me from home through his behavior . I left even when i have nothing to support myself with, i was sick, left my job , did research,, and find out how he is contributing to my sickness. Now pushed me away , thank God I'm out.
Covert narc......street angel....house devil.....secret life.
Sorry but I think approaching . Narcissists who are emotionally abusive as not being emotionally abuse but being “narcissistic abuse” is not right There’s not a difference between a narcissistic abuse and emotional abuse. Narcissists don’t have some special sort of abuse. It’s just emotional abuse.
This is a huge problem when it comes to legal stances. If the person is said to have narcisstic abuse but not emotional abuse or even domestic violence then it makes the reality of the crimes they’ve done be diminished in severity. It’s just abuse. And not every narcissist is an abuser. Cause someone who’s a narcissist could be a physical abuser while another is not and if it’s all labeled as narcissistic abuse then the act of their behaviors is lost.
I also want to add that have a narcissistic disorder does not make that person automatically a bad person who will abuse you. They are still people. Not some different species entirely. So not everyone with this disorder is the same.
You are talking about covert narcissists... emotional abusers ARE narcissists...they are covert narcissists. I dont agree at all
I also see lots of covert narcissism in it. My current partner is covert or emotionally abusive. It became unbearable whatever is called
So what happens when you the husband are the emotional abuser and your wife is a narcissist who always plays the victim.
Perhaps you are different types of narcissists... overt and covert?
People could get really confused by this comparison. The covert narcissist is deadly and never takes over the room and are seen as a good person. Whether it be overt or covert, they both have the same objective and they never have the capability to change. Abuse is abuse…get help and get out.
They are both toxic, that’s all you need to know
Bingo hes using my disorder and getting my money every month