The chip load per individual 'flue piece' is quite a bit lower for the corncob style end mill, so because the material is being removed in small bites instead of one big swoop the chip load is a lot more balanced which automatically results in less deflection which leads to a better and more consistent surface finish. At least that is my theory :D
With the removed areas of cutting edge the surface area contact and corresponding force, deflection and vibration is basically halved for each flute so that is the main likely cause of the better finish. However the rigidity of a 2 flute cutter and the pattern of movement means it will have 2 points of maximum deflection during one revolution as opposed to one point with a single flute, which is also a likely factor involved in the improved finish since the distance between each point of maximum deviation on the cut surface will be halved as well, and this is obviously helped by the halved force with the halved cutting edge length for each flute.
Hmm yeah that makes sense. I was contemplating the reduced tool force but wasn't confident enough to say it out loud... and didn't think about the 2-flute nature of the tool at all. Despite cutting like a single flute, it's basically a two flute so stiffer/meatier. Makes sense it would also deflect a lot less (and have different resonances too, maybe even balanced better). Interesting! I probably haven't ever used a nice serrated tool either... now that I think about it, pretty sure I've only tried cheap roughers. That might have prejudiced me a bit too heh
I see you are using inches per minute for your feed. So if you run a single flute at 100ipm, you need to run a two flute at 200ipm to make it equal. Feed that two flute at 200ipm and I bet you will see a similar surface finish on the cut. The feed per tooth needs to be equal to properly compare surface finish (also, don't conventional cut on CNC, there are very few situations where you would want to do that since surface finish and tool life are always reduced).
@@jbwalker841 But the rougher isnt actually a 2 flute tool. Its 2 flute with half of each flute cut away, so at any point of the tool there is only a single cutting edge. It is a 1 flute tool with a 2 flute body, so the chipload must be the same as a normal 1 flute. Except that it produces shorter chips, but that isnt part of the normal feeds and speeds formulas afaik.
watching the chips fly off it appears that both the small chips and the long chips travel across the screen at about the same velocity. excellent footage! thanks for this!
Yunno, I think you're right... just rewatched that section myself and looks like most are indeed traveling the same speed. Weird, would not have guessed that!
I love the high tech approach to an age old problem to solve chatter. In the old Bridgeport days of slow spindles just slow it more to stop chatter. I program cnc for a living and I use ZrN coated 3FL chip breakers and ZrN coated 3FL finish end mills for aluminum and they work amazing. Great channel and I look forward to seeing more 😀
@@BreakingTaps ironically we all know Kennemetal, Sandvik, iscar are top names, we machine a lot of armor, stainless, tool steel and aluminum. I have great success with Accupro end mills 3FL ZrN for aluminum, chip breaker for rough, finish for finish 5FL TiCN rougher for hard steel 6FL ALTiN finish for steel
Love your videos. Often your feeds and speeds make it to my DIY cast iron cnc. The feedrates work really well! Keep up the great work, look forward to some more content.
Oh rad, that's great to hear! Happy they translate over to your machine. Just had a quick skim of your channel and already queued up a bunch of videos to watch, great stuff!
Nicely done. If the camera supports an external trigger for capturing a frame, it'd be neat to use that to synchronize with the rotation of the spindle. Mounting the camera to the axis the spindle is moving along relative to the work, would make it possible to get a bit more optical zoom and get more out of the limited sensor resolution.
Thanks! I just had a look, and it seems my camera supports external triggering via genlock, and will keep frame capture to +/-1uS with the signal. I'll have to do some playing to see if I can sync it, thanks for the idea! I'm also looking into mounting a low magnification microscope objective (4x or something) to help get closer... should give more light than macro lenses and still wide enough to be useful... I think :)
The more number of the flutes give a better surface quality than less number of flutes, That's why the two fluted tool had a good surface quality than the one fluted tool.
Good stuff! Really enjoying the high quality productions-- BTW, TH-cam defaulted to (auto) 4k for me for this video, whereas most videos (even channels with 1M+ subs and good production quality) it defaults to 1080p. You must be doing something right for the algorithm!
Thanks! And cheers for the headsup on the 4k... I'm never quite sure if it's worth going through the hassle of recording and editing 4k or not. Will keep doing it! :)
Someday™️ :) I've been putting off doing anything to the machine until I get around to doing a complete overhaul (new controller, servos, etc) then it'll be a lot easier. Also... just procrastinating 😇
@@BreakingTaps I've just started using a datron single flute on the BTP (with flood coolant), it's unbelievable! Did you find it was surprisingly quiet? I'm really impressed. I tried an industry standard 2 flute and it was ok but left burs and had a bit of vibration.
@@MakeTechPtyLtd Hmmm... I think so but hard to remember. I was trying to time the high speed camera trigger and not really paying attention to the machine. But I don't remember any awful/loud/chattery sounds so it probably was quet! But I was very impressed with the finish in general, I think it did a better job than my Amana Tool single flutes. Feels like they are probably better balanced (the geometry looks a little different too, the Datron has an extra bit at the bottom which looks like it's there for balance, or some kind of "wiper")
@@BreakingTaps I mean, we all know in theory how these things work, but slowing it down to a really understandable speed reinforces that knowledge, and yeah it looks too cool to miss out on
The finish with the corn cob is really good! It would be interesting to see how much you can increase the WOC before it starts to stall or give poor finish.
Yeah I was really surprised! I might dial it up and see how much I can get away with... I admit to being a bit nervous because I wanted to make sure I got some good footage before accidentally destroying it 😅
I make PVC windows and doors and when I cut holes for handle and latch with single flute, from left to right the cut is more smooth that when I cut from right to left, machine is manually operated following a selected pattern on top (I don't know english technical terms).
Just stumbled across your content and smashed that subscribe button faster than I expected! Love the polished content and the effort you put in it! Maybe the roughing finish is better because of less tool pressure and therefore less deflection? Or it's because the single flute induced some harmonics into the Maschine that the roughing endmill would cancel out? Anyway - love the content - greetings from germany - keep it up!
Thanks! ❤ Hmm that's interesting... those both sound like very plausible explanation to me. Smaller chips, less tool pressure and thus less chatter. Maybe even acting a little bit like a variable-flute, breaking up resonances? And the single flute _does_ have a very "long" cut, so maybe it was starting to chatter just a little bit? I wonder if there is some way I could quantify that... I didn't see any movement in the high speed, but I also didn't look very closely.
Cool video! What kind of camera would one need to make these kind of slow motions? Have you tried slot cutting with the cutter as well? Would be curious to see how chip evacuation is from a relatively deep narrow slot. From what I gathered one of the differences between climb and conventional cutting is, besides less recutting of chips, the deflection of the end mill with climb milling is more in line with the cut direction, whereas conventional puts transverse forces on the end mill, hence climb will give better dimensional accuracy (and surface finish) Also the cut/chip starts thin with conventional and increases during the cut, this gives more rubbing and tool wear/heat where climb starts 'thick' and thins out, so no rubbing.
Thanks! I have an Edgertronic SC2+ high speed camera... cost a pretty penny (even used), but it's considered "affordable" compared to the nice high-end cameras like what Smarter Every Day uses. If you ever see really high-speed footage at 720p or 1020p, it probably came off a Phantom and cost upwards $150,000 USD. 😬 Mine can do ~5000 FPS @ 720p, with a max speed of ~30,000 @ 1280 x 96
I would be interested in seeing climb vs conventional cutting on steel and aluminum with a four and two flute endmill respectively. At higher magnification.
I think that style serrated endmill have the potential to give better finishes that trad finishing endmills depending on the grind and if I remember correctly main sales point is less tool pressure peaks during machining as the cutting load is distrubuted over smaller teeth more evenly distributed around the OD of the tool.
Hmm interesting. Seems counterintuitive at first but makes sense more I think about it. Perhaps I've just used really crappy roughers in the past which is why I was expecting really bad finish and lines across the work :)
@@BreakingTaps its completely on the grid of the tool... I think the ones called serrated roughers can give great finishes but the ones called corn cob roughers won't as the profile of corn cob tool literally looks like a corn cob while spinning and not a cylinder. They have the same advantage but can usually rough harder as they have more teeth to flatten the tooth load curve
@@HuskyMachining Ah interesting, didn't realize there was a difference in serrated vs corn cob. Guess I never looked at them closely, or their descriptions. Good to know!
Good eye! It is indeed a vacuum chamber, think it was originally an old 60's vintage e-beam deposition chamber (seems to have some "DIY" ion pumps, air-cooled jacket, HV feedthrough, all ports are conflat). It's not currently operational, I need to machine a top-plate and an adapter for my diffusion pump... but it's so cold in the shop I'll probably procrastinate on that until the Spring. Have some vague plans to try out laser pulse deposition, and maybe dabble with some micro-thruster designs (ion thrusters, micro-cavity discharge). The original original plan was for sputtering but I ended up finding a killer deal on a SEM coater not long ago :) Until then, it's gets to be a pretty blue prop in the videos 😀
@@BreakingTaps Hah, awesome! I’d be envious, except I don’t remotely have time even for my current projects. High vacuum would be a whooole other thing, and I don’t even have a particular application. It’s just cool, though :-) I spent a LOT of time with vacuum systems early in my career. At one point, I got so tired of rebuilding diffusion pumps that had seen atmosphere that when I transitioned to a new job, I didn’t let on that I knew anything at all about high vacuum 😆. In my retirement though, I kinda miss it a little; it’s been many, many years; decades TBH, but part of me would enjoy seeing conflats, ion pumps and an ion gauge again :-) Ultra-high vacuum always appealed to the extremophile in me; 1x10^-8 torr was an achievable but challenging goal :-) Best wishes and good luck with your system, I hope we’ll get to see a vid someday on what you do with it 👍😁
(Forgot to acknowledge the SEM coater - cool! I also spent a lot of time with a "mini-SEM" back in the day. I loved it! Our specimens were already conductive, so no need for sputtering, but cool that you have a system to do that. - Although I confess that I always had a bit of a bias about sputtering: All those nasty gas molecules around... )
Would there be an angle where you can place a camera that would let us see the metal being cut by the bit, or would there be stuff obstructing the view? Would placing a small mirror strip at a 45 angle, behind the bit using the angle in this vid, show the interaction between the bit and the metal , at least on the surface?
Hmm, could be tough to get a good angle on that. A mirror at 45 might help show the backside, or maybe something looking down for a top-down view so you could see the bit bite into the metal. Hard to work around the gantry and spindle though. I might try this setup again at some point though, I have a new macro lens for my high speed camera that would look _much_ better than these older videos! Also tempted to run it in clear acrylic just to see the whole thing :)
by following the curved edge of the actual bit, it definitely appears to be slowing down on ocntact at the bottom, but not at the top. i woner if it's twisting?
My guess is that the finish is better because it’s more like a 2-flute cutter in some ways, for example it’s a more rigid design and will experience less tool deflection. Curious how the finish looks vs a true 2 flute cutter.
Ooh, that's a great point. I hadn't thought about the extra stiffness from it basically being a 2 flute masquerading as a single flute. Would be interested to see it compared to a real 2 flute as well.
If you cut with the same speeds, feeds and depth of cut then the finish will definitely different. You would have to double the feed rate for the two flute endmill to make things equal because the feed per tooth is what matters. The chip splitter may affect the finish too on less rigid setups because it reduces the chip size which effectively reduces the torque required for the cut and should reduce deflection. But the feedrate will have a bigger impact. One flute and say .01" linear advance per revolution of the tool equals .005" advance per tooth per revolution of the tool with two flutes. So therefore the frequency of tooth engagement is double which reduces scallop size . Smaller scallop size equals smoother finish (unless you end up causing chatter, but that's a different discussion). Make sense?
Analyzing for difference in rotational speed when single flute engages: counting the machine spindle to determine an answer assumes there is no flex in the tool. i wonder i wonder
That's not a bad idea! I'll start taking notes about the different analysis software I use and see if I can put something together in the future. Cheers for the idea!
the surface finish with the single flute is very interesting; why are the visible lines so diagonal? is it maybe chattering; perhaps inaudibly? maybe even runout related?
Could be, not sure. I didnt see any major deflections in the high speed, but didnt really analyze it either. I've definitely seen similar in the past with single flutes (while working on projects)... I always assumed it was due to the geometry: single long flute, starts cutting at the bottom and by time it finishes the half revolution, it's advanced forward a few millimeters causing a diagonal line. But not sure tbh. :)
@@BreakingTaps the chip per tooth is how much it advances per revolution which in this video seems to be a couple 100ths of a mm at a time; the lines would be almost vertical, so that's not it i think
@@ikbendusan Hmm that's a good point. Just ran it through a calculator, chip load is 0.10583mm, agree that doesn't seem like the cause. Not sure where those lines are coming from in that case, I guess chatter/resonance seems most likely? I might be able to measure runout from the video, comparing the angle of the tool over time. Hmm...
Wonderfully made high-speed video 😃👏👏 You have earned billions of subscriptions (unfortunately, I can only give you one from this account, though youve got more from me from two other accounts). Less is given by a rock (spanish saying). AWESOME CHANNEL CHAMP!!!!! 😃😃👏👏👏
Afraid I only have a DC welder :( Could do aluminum MIG + spoolgun, probably looks very different though. (I lol'd at "lighting shouldn't be an issue" 😂)
FIJI / ImageJ: imagej.net/software/fiji/ It's free image analysis software that's widely used in academia. Very powerful due to the plugin architecture, but also a bit clunky :)
Carhartt "Arctic Quilt Lined Duck Bib Overalls". Looks a bit goofy but damn they are warm. :) Can work in my below-freezing shop for hours with those + a few upper layers.
@@BreakingTaps ooohh quilt lined sounds real good right now. Thanks. Oh also, great video 😆 I was also curious about the dynamic balance on those single flute endmills.
Haha, I was curious if anyone would notice 😅 Been trying to force myself and use Python more lately, there are just so many scientific packages that are only available in python land. My breaking point was when I wanted to use a python library and was trying to figure out how to import Python bindings into Rust... decided I should probably just learn Python instead. I'm _really_ bad at Python though, like still at the stage of googling for "what is Python iterator syntax" level :)
@@BreakingTaps That's funny. I'm going kind of the opposite direction. I don't like Python specifically, but I'm very good at Swift, and I'm trying to learn Rust. They're very similar, but by the time I'm done with work I struggle to read more than one chapter in the Rust book.
@@hpux735 Yeah I hear ya, Rust's learning curve is closer to a cliff. I picked it up a few years ago, and while not very good or expert at all, it's enough of a base to let me hop back in with minimal "downtime" for hobby projects... just have to refresh myself and fight the compiler for a few minutes :) I have to say, the recent improvements in IDE integration really helps. When in doubt you can just add dummy types to method signatures and let the IDE/compiler tell you what it was expecting :)
@@BreakingTaps Totally. The book is definitely well done, but the hardest part I have is reading other's code. A lot of what's in crates.io isn't fully documented, so when I go reading the source to understand the API I get lost in some of the weird idioms. :)
Honestly, I think stuff like this will be a big draw for your channel. TH-cam recommended you and I was intrigued by the high speed because you don't see a lot of that around. I see phantoms with macro lenses in your future. 👋🔮😲
Really glad youtube recommended this channel to me
Same. Quality content is in high demand
The chip load per individual 'flue piece' is quite a bit lower for the corncob style end mill, so because the material is being removed in small bites instead of one big swoop the chip load is a lot more balanced which automatically results in less deflection which leads to a better and more consistent surface finish. At least that is my theory :D
Really interesting to observe the machining in slo-mo, with the different cutters. Great content!
This is by far my new favorite channel. Love your content man, clean videography and you’re always doing something new.
With the removed areas of cutting edge the surface area contact and corresponding force, deflection and vibration is basically halved for each flute so that is the main likely cause of the better finish.
However the rigidity of a 2 flute cutter and the pattern of movement means it will have 2 points of maximum deflection during one revolution as opposed to one point with a single flute, which is also a likely factor involved in the improved finish since the distance between each point of maximum deviation on the cut surface will be halved as well, and this is obviously helped by the halved force with the halved cutting edge length for each flute.
Hmm yeah that makes sense. I was contemplating the reduced tool force but wasn't confident enough to say it out loud... and didn't think about the 2-flute nature of the tool at all. Despite cutting like a single flute, it's basically a two flute so stiffer/meatier. Makes sense it would also deflect a lot less (and have different resonances too, maybe even balanced better). Interesting! I probably haven't ever used a nice serrated tool either... now that I think about it, pretty sure I've only tried cheap roughers. That might have prejudiced me a bit too heh
I see you are using inches per minute for your feed. So if you run a single flute at 100ipm, you need to run a two flute at 200ipm to make it equal. Feed that two flute at 200ipm and I bet you will see a similar surface finish on the cut. The feed per tooth needs to be equal to properly compare surface finish (also, don't conventional cut on CNC, there are very few situations where you would want to do that since surface finish and tool life are always reduced).
@@jbwalker841 But the rougher isnt actually a 2 flute tool. Its 2 flute with half of each flute cut away, so at any point of the tool there is only a single cutting edge. It is a 1 flute tool with a 2 flute body, so the chipload must be the same as a normal 1 flute. Except that it produces shorter chips, but that isnt part of the normal feeds and speeds formulas afaik.
watching the chips fly off it appears that both the small chips and the long chips travel across the screen at about the same velocity. excellent footage! thanks for this!
Yunno, I think you're right... just rewatched that section myself and looks like most are indeed traveling the same speed. Weird, would not have guessed that!
3:00 i like the transparency of a totally not sponsorship-style relationship with the vendor :D
The finish left by the traditional cut with the crosscut tool looked a lot nicer.
I love the high tech approach to an age old problem to solve chatter.
In the old Bridgeport days of slow spindles just slow it more to stop chatter.
I program cnc for a living and I use ZrN coated 3FL chip breakers and ZrN coated 3FL finish end mills for aluminum and they work amazing.
Great channel and I look forward to seeing more 😀
Thanks! Any recommendations on brand? I have some 3FL tools kicking around, but mostly just an assortment of import's and random ebay finds :)
@@BreakingTaps ironically we all know Kennemetal, Sandvik, iscar are top names, we machine a lot of armor, stainless, tool steel and aluminum.
I have great success with Accupro end mills
3FL ZrN for aluminum, chip breaker for rough, finish for finish
5FL TiCN rougher for hard steel
6FL ALTiN finish for steel
@@HandyDan Perfect, thanks! Will pick up a few next time I make an order!
This channel needs more views
Love your videos. Often your feeds and speeds make it to my DIY cast iron cnc. The feedrates work really well!
Keep up the great work, look forward to some more content.
Oh rad, that's great to hear! Happy they translate over to your machine. Just had a quick skim of your channel and already queued up a bunch of videos to watch, great stuff!
this deserves more views
I've always wanted to see solid shank rivet get shot with a rivet gun and a bucking bar is slow motion. I think it would look pretty cool
Love those flying chips
I like your analysis of the slowdown question.
what a great hairstyle, man. carefully formed by a high-precision pillow, i reckon? :D
I'm convinced its nearly a prerequisite for machinists of this generation.
The intro is so cool.... This Old Tony's got some catching up to do. ..... and..... is that Ferris on your sweatshirt?
Very interesting footage! Really surprising that you don’t have more subscribers
The TH-cam Algorithm moves in mysterious ways :) Thanks for stopping by!
@@BreakingTaps You're about to get bumped up several k 👋🔮😲
Is that Ferris the Rust Mascot? Good taste in programming languages if so.
It is indeed! 🦀
Love your videos man! My brother sent me yoyr video on chatter, and been following ever since.
Thanks!
Nicely done.
If the camera supports an external trigger for capturing a frame, it'd be neat to use that to synchronize with the rotation of the spindle. Mounting the camera to the axis the spindle is moving along relative to the work, would make it possible to get a bit more optical zoom and get more out of the limited sensor resolution.
Thanks! I just had a look, and it seems my camera supports external triggering via genlock, and will keep frame capture to +/-1uS with the signal. I'll have to do some playing to see if I can sync it, thanks for the idea! I'm also looking into mounting a low magnification microscope objective (4x or something) to help get closer... should give more light than macro lenses and still wide enough to be useful... I think :)
The more number of the flutes give a better surface quality than less number of flutes,
That's why the two fluted tool had a good surface quality than the one fluted tool.
Wow, great high FPS shots. I do CNC stuff and wish I had such a nice camera tool :) Greetings from Germany, Stefan.
Love your fun start of the clip LOL
Fantastic content.... worthy of the sub .... I think it's just a nice end mill and you got lucky on feeds and speeds, as far as any oscillations go
The surface finish Is Better on the cross cut because is more stiff and the small contact area on the flute induces less vibration
Good stuff! Really enjoying the high quality productions-- BTW, TH-cam defaulted to (auto) 4k for me for this video, whereas most videos (even channels with 1M+ subs and good production quality) it defaults to 1080p. You must be doing something right for the algorithm!
Thanks! And cheers for the headsup on the 4k... I'm never quite sure if it's worth going through the hassle of recording and editing 4k or not. Will keep doing it! :)
Awesome video and analysis! Still hoping for spindle current measurements someday!
Someday™️ :) I've been putting off doing anything to the machine until I get around to doing a complete overhaul (new controller, servos, etc) then it'll be a lot easier. Also... just procrastinating 😇
Like others, love your vids. Found this really insightful
Well done. Shared on diy cnc Facebook group.
Cheers!
@@BreakingTaps I've just started using a datron single flute on the BTP (with flood coolant), it's unbelievable! Did you find it was surprisingly quiet? I'm really impressed. I tried an industry standard 2 flute and it was ok but left burs and had a bit of vibration.
@@MakeTechPtyLtd Hmmm... I think so but hard to remember. I was trying to time the high speed camera trigger and not really paying attention to the machine. But I don't remember any awful/loud/chattery sounds so it probably was quet! But I was very impressed with the finish in general, I think it did a better job than my Amana Tool single flutes. Feels like they are probably better balanced (the geometry looks a little different too, the Datron has an extra bit at the bottom which looks like it's there for balance, or some kind of "wiper")
@@BreakingTaps interesting. I'm definitely going to stock up on some datron endmills. I'd like to try that "rougher" one.
Your channel is awesome ! :)
❤
Love it! Show us more tool failures though!!
I really love the slow mo
I have to say, it's pretty addictive :) Everything just looks so much cooler when slowed down
@@BreakingTaps I mean, we all know in theory how these things work, but slowing it down to a really understandable speed reinforces that knowledge, and yeah it looks too cool to miss out on
The finish with the corn cob is really good! It would be interesting to see how much you can increase the WOC before it starts to stall or give poor finish.
Yeah I was really surprised! I might dial it up and see how much I can get away with... I admit to being a bit nervous because I wanted to make sure I got some good footage before accidentally destroying it 😅
I make PVC windows and doors and when I cut holes for handle and latch with single flute, from left to right the cut is more smooth that when I cut from right to left, machine is manually operated following a selected pattern on top (I don't know english technical terms).
Anyone out there that doesn’t like slomo? I doubt it. Cool video.
Great video
Just stumbled across your content and smashed that subscribe button faster than I expected! Love the polished content and the effort you put in it!
Maybe the roughing finish is better because of less tool pressure and therefore less deflection? Or it's because the single flute induced some harmonics into the Maschine that the roughing endmill would cancel out?
Anyway - love the content - greetings from germany - keep it up!
Thanks! ❤ Hmm that's interesting... those both sound like very plausible explanation to me. Smaller chips, less tool pressure and thus less chatter. Maybe even acting a little bit like a variable-flute, breaking up resonances? And the single flute _does_ have a very "long" cut, so maybe it was starting to chatter just a little bit? I wonder if there is some way I could quantify that... I didn't see any movement in the high speed, but I also didn't look very closely.
I DID sub :D All the best, this slow mo, Datron and cross cutter in one video is perfect! What if you drop the fps and increase resolution a bit?
Cool video! What kind of camera would one need to make these kind of slow motions?
Have you tried slot cutting with the cutter as well? Would be curious to see how chip evacuation is from a relatively deep narrow slot.
From what I gathered one of the differences between climb and conventional cutting is, besides less recutting of chips, the deflection of the end mill with climb milling is more in line with the cut direction, whereas conventional puts transverse forces on the end mill, hence climb will give better dimensional accuracy (and surface finish)
Also the cut/chip starts thin with conventional and increases during the cut, this gives more rubbing and tool wear/heat where climb starts 'thick' and thins out, so no rubbing.
Thanks! I have an Edgertronic SC2+ high speed camera... cost a pretty penny (even used), but it's considered "affordable" compared to the nice high-end cameras like what Smarter Every Day uses. If you ever see really high-speed footage at 720p or 1020p, it probably came off a Phantom and cost upwards $150,000 USD. 😬 Mine can do ~5000 FPS @ 720p, with a max speed of ~30,000 @ 1280 x 96
@@BreakingTaps very cool, hi- speed looks amazing.
Unfortunately not quite in the realm for a nice to have ;-)
I would be interested in seeing climb vs conventional cutting on steel and aluminum with a four and two flute endmill respectively. At higher magnification.
I think that style serrated endmill have the potential to give better finishes that trad finishing endmills depending on the grind and if I remember correctly main sales point is less tool pressure peaks during machining as the cutting load is distrubuted over smaller teeth more evenly distributed around the OD of the tool.
Hmm interesting. Seems counterintuitive at first but makes sense more I think about it. Perhaps I've just used really crappy roughers in the past which is why I was expecting really bad finish and lines across the work :)
@@BreakingTaps its completely on the grid of the tool... I think the ones called serrated roughers can give great finishes but the ones called corn cob roughers won't as the profile of corn cob tool literally looks like a corn cob while spinning and not a cylinder. They have the same advantage but can usually rough harder as they have more teeth to flatten the tooth load curve
@@HuskyMachining Ah interesting, didn't realize there was a difference in serrated vs corn cob. Guess I never looked at them closely, or their descriptions. Good to know!
Could you mount a camera to the spindle? I want a closer look.
Super interesting to see the cutting dynamics, thanks! (BTW, is that a high-vacuum system in the background? If so, what are you doing with it?)
Good eye! It is indeed a vacuum chamber, think it was originally an old 60's vintage e-beam deposition chamber (seems to have some "DIY" ion pumps, air-cooled jacket, HV feedthrough, all ports are conflat). It's not currently operational, I need to machine a top-plate and an adapter for my diffusion pump... but it's so cold in the shop I'll probably procrastinate on that until the Spring. Have some vague plans to try out laser pulse deposition, and maybe dabble with some micro-thruster designs (ion thrusters, micro-cavity discharge). The original original plan was for sputtering but I ended up finding a killer deal on a SEM coater not long ago :)
Until then, it's gets to be a pretty blue prop in the videos 😀
@@BreakingTaps Hah, awesome! I’d be envious, except I don’t remotely have time even for my current projects. High vacuum would be a whooole other thing, and I don’t even have a particular application. It’s just cool, though :-) I spent a LOT of time with vacuum systems early in my career. At one point, I got so tired of rebuilding diffusion pumps that had seen atmosphere that when I transitioned to a new job, I didn’t let on that I knew anything at all about high vacuum 😆. In my retirement though, I kinda miss it a little; it’s been many, many years; decades TBH, but part of me would enjoy seeing conflats, ion pumps and an ion gauge again :-) Ultra-high vacuum always appealed to the extremophile in me; 1x10^-8 torr was an achievable but challenging goal :-) Best wishes and good luck with your system, I hope we’ll get to see a vid someday on what you do with it 👍😁
(Forgot to acknowledge the SEM coater - cool! I also spent a lot of time with a "mini-SEM" back in the day. I loved it! Our specimens were already conductive, so no need for sputtering, but cool that you have a system to do that. - Although I confess that I always had a bit of a bias about sputtering: All those nasty gas molecules around... )
Would there be an angle where you can place a camera that would let us see the metal being cut by the bit, or would there be stuff obstructing the view? Would placing a small mirror strip at a 45 angle, behind the bit using the angle in this vid, show the interaction between the bit and the metal , at least on the surface?
Hmm, could be tough to get a good angle on that. A mirror at 45 might help show the backside, or maybe something looking down for a top-down view so you could see the bit bite into the metal. Hard to work around the gantry and spindle though. I might try this setup again at some point though, I have a new macro lens for my high speed camera that would look _much_ better than these older videos! Also tempted to run it in clear acrylic just to see the whole thing :)
by following the curved edge of the actual bit, it definitely appears to be slowing down on ocntact at the bottom, but not at the top. i woner if it's twisting?
My guess is that the finish is better because it’s more like a 2-flute cutter in some ways, for example it’s a more rigid design and will experience less tool deflection. Curious how the finish looks vs a true 2 flute cutter.
Ooh, that's a great point. I hadn't thought about the extra stiffness from it basically being a 2 flute masquerading as a single flute. Would be interested to see it compared to a real 2 flute as well.
If you cut with the same speeds, feeds and depth of cut then the finish will definitely different. You would have to double the feed rate for the two flute endmill to make things equal because the feed per tooth is what matters. The chip splitter may affect the finish too on less rigid setups because it reduces the chip size which effectively reduces the torque required for the cut and should reduce deflection. But the feedrate will have a bigger impact. One flute and say .01" linear advance per revolution of the tool equals .005" advance per tooth per revolution of the tool with two flutes. So therefore the frequency of tooth engagement is double which reduces scallop size . Smaller scallop size equals smoother finish (unless you end up causing chatter, but that's a different discussion). Make sense?
Analyzing for difference in rotational speed when single flute engages: counting the machine spindle to determine an answer assumes there is no flex in the tool. i wonder i wonder
That video ideas bit was awesome. How long do you think it'll be until PA finishes their lathe rebuild?
Some Day ™ Haha :) But I can't talk much, I have several forever-unfinished projects, unfortunately one of those includes a lathe as well 😅
How u don't have 5M plus subs is. algorithm to me 👀 Forces@Work Top 3 Favorite Channels.
Please could you make a video detailing all of the cool and wierd software you use?
That's not a bad idea! I'll start taking notes about the different analysis software I use and see if I can put something together in the future. Cheers for the idea!
the surface finish with the single flute is very interesting; why are the visible lines so diagonal? is it maybe chattering; perhaps inaudibly? maybe even runout related?
Could be, not sure. I didnt see any major deflections in the high speed, but didnt really analyze it either. I've definitely seen similar in the past with single flutes (while working on projects)... I always assumed it was due to the geometry: single long flute, starts cutting at the bottom and by time it finishes the half revolution, it's advanced forward a few millimeters causing a diagonal line. But not sure tbh. :)
@@BreakingTaps the chip per tooth is how much it advances per revolution which in this video seems to be a couple 100ths of a mm at a time; the lines would be almost vertical, so that's not it i think
@@ikbendusan Hmm that's a good point. Just ran it through a calculator, chip load is 0.10583mm, agree that doesn't seem like the cause. Not sure where those lines are coming from in that case, I guess chatter/resonance seems most likely? I might be able to measure runout from the video, comparing the angle of the tool over time. Hmm...
THX
Amazing!
would be nice to see ceramic tools on inconel slowmotion
I mean that router is pretty nice, but i for some reason doubt it would play nice with inconel lol
Wonderfully made high-speed video 😃👏👏 You have earned billions of subscriptions (unfortunately, I can only give you one from this account, though youve got more from me from two other accounts). Less is given by a rock (spanish saying). AWESOME CHANNEL CHAMP!!!!! 😃😃👏👏👏
Same cutting feed and speed.. Double the flutes, half the chip load per tooth
You could say that cutter has a chip on its shoulder....
Do you have an AC welder to show slowmo of an Aluminium weld bead being formed?
Lighting shouldn't be an issue ;)
Afraid I only have a DC welder :( Could do aluminum MIG + spoolgun, probably looks very different though.
(I lol'd at "lighting shouldn't be an issue" 😂)
What is that software that you used for video analytics?
FIJI / ImageJ: imagej.net/software/fiji/ It's free image analysis software that's widely used in academia. Very powerful due to the plugin architecture, but also a bit clunky :)
Tell me about that shop apron...
Carhartt "Arctic Quilt Lined Duck Bib Overalls". Looks a bit goofy but damn they are warm. :) Can work in my below-freezing shop for hours with those + a few upper layers.
@@BreakingTaps ooohh quilt lined sounds real good right now. Thanks. Oh also, great video 😆 I was also curious about the dynamic balance on those single flute endmills.
My only question is why you're using python while wearing a Rust ferris shirt??? Hmmmm.... Highly suspect. Great video, by the way.
Haha, I was curious if anyone would notice 😅 Been trying to force myself and use Python more lately, there are just so many scientific packages that are only available in python land. My breaking point was when I wanted to use a python library and was trying to figure out how to import Python bindings into Rust... decided I should probably just learn Python instead. I'm _really_ bad at Python though, like still at the stage of googling for "what is Python iterator syntax" level :)
@@BreakingTaps That's funny. I'm going kind of the opposite direction. I don't like Python specifically, but I'm very good at Swift, and I'm trying to learn Rust. They're very similar, but by the time I'm done with work I struggle to read more than one chapter in the Rust book.
@@hpux735 Yeah I hear ya, Rust's learning curve is closer to a cliff. I picked it up a few years ago, and while not very good or expert at all, it's enough of a base to let me hop back in with minimal "downtime" for hobby projects... just have to refresh myself and fight the compiler for a few minutes :) I have to say, the recent improvements in IDE integration really helps. When in doubt you can just add dummy types to method signatures and let the IDE/compiler tell you what it was expecting :)
@@BreakingTaps Totally. The book is definitely well done, but the hardest part I have is reading other's code. A lot of what's in crates.io isn't fully documented, so when I go reading the source to understand the API I get lost in some of the weird idioms. :)
What material was it cutting
6061 Aluminum
Hah, we watch all the same youtubers. MAKE SCIENCE NOW!
Haha doh! I missed a great opportunity to name my channel MAKE SCIENCE NOW! 😆
Honestly, I think stuff like this will be a big draw for your channel.
TH-cam recommended you and I was intrigued by the high speed because you don't see a lot of that around.
I see phantoms with macro lenses in your future. 👋🔮😲
Thanks! Think I'll have to mortgage the house to afford a Phantom though 😂
not a cool hat.. cool video tho
Heh, that's my "it's really cold in my garage" hat :) Function over style!