Leveling the Precision Matthews TL-1660 Lathe
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.พ. 2022
- In this video I'll be getting the new Precision Matthews TL-1660 lathe leveled using my precision level. I machined my own leveling feet for this machine and share the techniques I used to get the machine properly leveled to remove any twist from the bed ways.
Check out the www.precisionmatthews.com website to see what all machines and accessories they have available including pricing information.
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I got anti-seize on me just watching this lol
🤣👍
Yup
I’m not even in the house and it’s already on the couch
Just don't get any "never seize" on you.🤣
Was going to say that also
As a young process engineer in a corn syrup manufacturing facility in the 1970s, we were expanding our plants at warp speed and often did temporary piping as new processes were installed. I gained the nickname Mr Goodwrench because I was always taking stuff apart and putting it back together. The old guy pipefitters taught me to always use thread lubricant because our areas were wet and carbon steel bolts would rust quickly. Also we had to use it so stainless bolts wouldn't gall. If I had the value of all the clothes I ruined with nickel based anti-seize and CopperGraph we used on gaskets, I could have retired a couple of years earlier.
That feeling when you have always only had used stuff and finally get a new one is really something. You may have bigger and maybe better machines, even new ones, but this will always have a special spot for the rest of your life. Even if you end up hating it, you will still love it.
I have never run a lathe that wasn't already WELL broken in before I used it. You are a lucky man!
Mark the ground around the feet pads to keep a eye on any movement .
Great point. That machine is light. I was thinking the same thing.
I've leveled robotic machines for decades like this, its a skill set and very critical for several reasons such as having a tool operate properly consistently reliably, and a finished product that depends on leveling accuracy!
Few ppl really realize how important this really is.
I'm watching this instead of the state of the union address, this is definitely better.
.002" may as well be level as far as coolant is concerned. Our machines were lined up with the rest of the world and they drained just fine.
I honestly can't believe the amount of people that are so concerned about pitching the lathe downhill towards the tailstock for coolant drainage, when what is required are the ways running on the same plane. The lathe could probably run in an almost vertical position and machine accurate parts, as long as the bed is in on the same plane from side to side, and no I'm not talking about being parallel, the structure takes care of that (just wanted to confirm, some of you probably don't understand what the webs in the casting are for either). If the chip tray slope bothers you that much, look the machine up and see if it specs the chip tray slope maybe that will keep you occupied for a while.
They make a expoy you can run around your leveling pads to hold them in place. You just pout it around them and let it dry. We used it to set Cincinnati machines years ago
So amped I'm ordering a PM-1440-2SM tomorrow. Thanks for the info and the wonderful tutorials on all machining aspects.
Wouldn't the drainage of the chip tray be built in at the design level?
What I mean is, if they suggest using the top of the cross slide to level the machine then maybe the chip tray is already built with the desired drainage angle if the machine is levelled correctly at the cross slide.
I'd have thought that if they are making a precision machine to create precision parts then they wouldn't expect an end user to apply guesswork to add drainage angles for coolant.
Just a thought 😉
Just what I thought too 😏
I was hoping so
Galerak agreed it would be like a bathtub you set the bathtub into the wall and have both the length and the width level and the tub would be manufactured to drain to the plug and this lathe would be the same.
They did a great job making sure the floor was absolutely level. I'm absolutely astounded that the floor is that level.
I bought a Precision Matthews about 10 years ago. Have had great results 👍
Something changed in the last few videos, the picture quality has dramatically improved. Seems the audio has improved as well.
Happy to see Adam doing so well for himself. It’s not easy going out on your own in any business. Always happy to see others growing their business!
would have liked to see the level rotated 180 degrees to check that it is true.
I remember my summer as a machine builder (college kid, first 'responsible' job in an industrial setting (building drive shafts for DANA doesn't count here)). We had huge bases for a big machining line that was being built. 16'~20' long, 4' ~ 6' wide. Each base had 8 to 12 leveling screws (2-1/2" screws). It came time to finally level those things (30 or 40 of them), and they brought out the laser instead of the levels. I chased that damn beep an entire day trying to get that think level. It ended up taking a solid week to get all of them done and I only did one of them, the "experienced" guys took over and it STILL took them 1/2 day per base working in teams. Still one of the best "college" jobs I ever had. I got introduced to the Bridgeport, surface grinder, lathe, drill sharpening, indicating, surface plate work (basic), and a few other things. I loved it, and looking back at my life 30+ years later? Probably should have stuck with it...it was enjoyable.
Sounds like major deal even with lasers…. Can you imagine if all you had were bubble levels
@@francisschweitzer8431 I can't...just can't. It was brutal with the lasers because they were so sensitive and beeped like crazy. You'd move ONE screw just a fraction of a degree and BEEEP....move to the next corner...BEEP...move back "nothing". Also due to the size of the bases you had flex in the middle of the base, so you were adjusting constantly. What really should have been done is use a couple of sensors, find the low spot, high spot, and move from there. I think they finally did that near the end, kind of how you would do grade stakes for building and such.
Love it! Everything coming together so nicely. It's exciting watching you get this shop up and running right from the start.
Years ago a work acquaintance gave me a piece of gymnastics foam to save my knees at work and it lasted me for years. It was durable and washable, and didn't break down like foam rubber pads do. It only needed replaced because I got roofing tar on it, and it took me a while to track down what type it was. As it turns out, toolbox makers sell it with a fancy name -- "Kaizen foam".
I have a cheap rolled up yoga mat that has saved my knees over the years. Took me about 2 years of regularly using it to wear it out and it only cost me $5 to replace. Even saved my back a few times rolling it out to work underneath my friend's car in gravel.
100% worth it!
Useful info. Thanks.
nothing more fun than setting up a new shop. hope youre enjoying every minute of it too.
Six years ago I wanted to drill a hole in hardened steel and no friend had time to do it immediately , normal I let them do my metal work cause I thought I'm not good at it. So I tried, but it didn't work 😭 I picked up my phone and looked at TH-cam for an explanation....this must have been the moment the metal virus got me...what I always thought that it's a boring thing was a whole new world for me ( at age 44 ) it was very interesting and mind blowing...two weeks later my first brand new lathe came 😂 and another week later my first mill 😂 which were replaced after a year to bigger ones ( lathe 350kg mill about the same) and despite being a hobbyist ( studied law ) I have a hobby workshop for about 60K all bought the last years🤪🤪🤪 and divided into two rooms to keep the grinding dust away from the other machines and tools 😇 and its the responsibility of guys like Adam why the metal work theme was so fascinating that i spend every free minute in the workshop . Also I was becoming the star for my friends and neighbors because if they need a repair I'm glad to do it immediately for them never taking a cent even not for the material.😁😁 I know but I do it with such pleasure I don't want to take money for it and the number of people who come to me is increasing ever since 🤣🤣🤣
When I don't repair things I have two houses which there's always metal work to do or just copy nice projects from TH-cam.Since I converted my mill with four Nema34 12.5Nm Motors to CNC the fourth axis a turning axis i made myself out if steele and in near future I make the 5th also the possibilities have increased cause I can't mill the complex forms the computer can do but by using the wireless Handwheel I can use it like normal only with more precision...🤪
So thank you Adam you cost me a bunch of bucks but gave me the best hobby I can think of 😁😂😂
I discovered machinery of this sort around 15 years ago, and since then studied it from manuals and books and online from joe, stefan, adam, robin and so on... Last year i got a Schaublin 22, Schaerer UN450, Emco FB2, a yugoslavian baby lathe, a Deckel S1 t&cg and a few other tidbits... An extensive list of tooling and measurement devices aswell... Now i am setting up my shop, and like you, plan on two rooms for grinders and the dust crew as none of that grime is ever gonna see my machines, but the feeling of running a 3 ton lathe, or a factory new Schau22 is just amazing... The baby machines are there for parts that would be an insult to the large machines, as you dont turn a 1 inch bushing on a 3 ton lathe... Nor do you drill a few tiny holes on a 1 ton mill when the emco will bust their ass with joy... Heck, the only reason i got the machines are guys like adam, tony and the rest... Seeing them work was such a pleasure i knew it could only be even better not just lustfully watching the work being done, and so it is... But fucking hell do you need a load of cash to get all the tools and precision devices after the initial cost of the machines... I think i have seen your ass on robrenzes channel wolfie, or was it suburban tools? likely the latter, and i am glad to see this comment from you, its a great joy seeing someone else discover the loveliness of machinery as such... They truly are a darlings to be loved, and as you said, they do make you much more liked, as peasants who scrounge for a screw and overpay junk run to you in heaps with pleading eyes as soon as the word gets out that there be a machine enthusiast with proper machines and if not official, good learned knowledge, gotten through much more interest in the subject than many who finished proper schooling have, as most in schools are there out of necessity, whereas we fell in love and spend every moment either watching or reading about the art of it, or now even engage in it :)
All the best and warmest regards!
@@camillosteuss thanx for the nice answer..yes unbelievable how much you can spend on tooling and measurement equipment on the other hand I bought a few good cars ( jaguar,BMW,mercedes etc ) and today even often after a few year's there's nothing left from that much more money but the tooling and workshop I have for the rest of my life if I look propperly after it .,.and if I stand at a lathe I forget everything around me it's one of the best feelings I know ...and if you don't forget the problems around you your friends have fun and can call you nine finger Camillo 😂😂...that's a win-win 😇👍
Thanks Adam! I’m about to tackle this process on an 1950s Bradford Metalmaster that I’m in the process of reviving. Good, straight forward procedure to follow. Thanks again!
I have a PM lathe and mill , you WON'T be disappointed! On top of quality machines, Matt's customer service is as good as it gets.
Great job Adam, will be glad when you show using it and breaking it in. Thanks for sharing. Fred.
Whoever did that floor , deserves favour ! That machine is beautiful ! Happy lathing Adam .
Neverseize - the gift that keeps on givin
Everything you machine looks amazing. Works of art!!
I really enjoyed the first few minutes of the video, watching the pads get faced and chamfered. Just hearing the machine running was neat, like ASMR (Abom Swift Metal Removal).
Excellent work Adam really nice to see the different ways of leveling u can do nicely explained.
Wow so cool to see you bringing your new shoo online and your first brand new lathe is im sure a real moment in time for your career.
This machine... I think i'm in love... I just can't get over it. This thing is SO DANG LOVELY.
Love the channel , I miss engineering and Toolmaking CNC , sheet metal work and welding . My apprenticeship was 5 years and we learned to everything
I agree with your decision on the new lathe and on your assessment of Taiwan machines. I'm a 50 year machinist and toolmaker.
Great stuff, never knew levelling is that important. Congrats on your new machine, happy turning!
Very cool methods...might want to check level again in 30 or 90 days since the concrete is fresh. Those leveling blocks you made Adam are perfect because tall operators will benefit from them.
Got a 2' by 6" by 2" thick rubber from work that was left over from insulating a couple of 1750 HP Chillers. Great to lay on agent working in washing machine dryer or furnance. Can remember kneeling on steel diamond plate while an apprentice. Would never do that now a days. Good luck with the new shop.
Amazing looking machine! Thanks for the detailed instruction.
Thanks for sharing. I learn so much from. You have a lot knowledge to share with us. I am loving your new shop and have shop envy. lol
love the sensitivity of the masters level
It’s exciting to see a new machine
Perfect timing Adam! I just got a 12 x 36 PM lathe. This tutorial ids just what the doctor ordered. Thanks!
Oh dear ! Please follow the instructions in the manual !
Me thinks leveling is not important. Lathes are used on boats of all kinds.
What is important is to take out the tweak, the twist, the lack of symmetry. A simple way to achieve this is via leveling.
Yes, there are jobs where one want to use a level for initial holding of the part.
But this is just an opinion, and those I have plenty of.
I like this new wave of episodes. You seem to having recovered your aim. Great!
Good evening from central Florida! Hope everyone has a great night!
A salute to your concrete guys, they gave you a true and level shop floor, about the best you could ask for.
Hi Adam, Amazing job on the levelling and nice to see one go so smoothly. Best of luck with the grease removal an oil change etc; I'm looking forward to seeing the first accuracy tests!.
Exciting stuff, looks like a great edition to the new shop
I was using those type of knee foams. now I just put on some knee pads that are gel filled love them!
thanks for sharing! sweet! new lathe so far. i can almost smell it.
I find it so satisfying to watch chips fly. I am not a machinist but I do have some high school experience playing around with the lathe. I have an ME degree and enjoy what I do but there is nothing like watching chips fly.
Exelente video de nivelación de máquina maestro gracias por compartir tus conocimientos.
We are enjoying this with you; you have earned it!
What a beautiful machine, Ive had the PM 1640TL on my wish list for a couple of years. One day.
Hi Abomb, congrats on your new lathe pretty exiting i can imagine.love the content you have. wish you continued progress, old school machining is were its at. im a cnc guy but i never forget the roots of the trade. it always translates nicely to modern tech thanks for your vids.
Slick machine, you’ll be happy with it for sure
That is one beautiful piece of machinery. I bet you will find it to function exactly as good (or better) than it looks.
Thanks for making the text huge on the screen. I watch on my phone most of the time and the text easy to read on a computer screen really is hard for the aging eyes to see on a phone! Love the new metal to money converter!
Can't wait to see it running and making some chips as well as the pacemaker. Good interesting video as always.
First congratulations and good luck with it. Second I believe that a smart manufacturer will set the chip tray so that it will be at the correct angle to drain the coolant away from the head stock without the user needing to tilt it at 5he time of leveling. Not sure if that is the case with this lathe, just my thought on the matter.
Wants the ways to drain. Not just the chip pan
Always love seein' that photo at the end of your videos. Gives me inspiration, something to strive for with my son. Your videos always edify. Looking forward to the next one. Be well.
The next step to level an engine lathe is to confirm taper. A standard in the chuck can be indicated against from the saddle travel. Indicate along the top side of the standard to see the indicator easily. Adjust the rear headstock leveling bolts to correct error. You are adjusting for "up/down error" only at this point. Now reconfirm bedway twist, sagging and crowning employing the demonstrated methods. You will likely do some tail chasing closing in on machine level. Twist correction is vastly more important than level as Adam demonstrated by intentionally adding slope for coolant drainage. .002" slope is arguably insignificant for coolant drainage, but certainly causes no machining harm.
The final step I would employ us to validate headstock taper. This is done by turning a sizable piece of stock with as much stickout that won't allow part deflection, No Tailstock Engagement. Test part finish is critical for best taper measurements. Mic the turned diameter. Adjust to correct taper by loosening the headstock hardware and adjusting via the adjustment screws at the rear of the headstock. The front of the headstock pivots on a pin centered under the chuck end of the headstock. Make certain you track headstock movement before loosening the headstock hardware and while making adjustments. Monitor adjustment with at least .0005" test indicator. A .0001" may max your indicator travel when you loosen the hardware or make adjustments. Tighten headstock, recut test piece and confirm taper correction improvement. This procedure can take several test cuts to eliminate spindle taper. Your first compensation correction success gives guidance on how much to move to obtain the desired and needed taper correction.
I had various pilots that varied in their opinion on how much taper was acceptable and if the tailstock end or the chuck end should be larger if no taper was unachievable. The type of work performed on the machine will help dictate this decision. This is a toolroom lathe and I would expect that Adam wants precision work and he will machine with light tool load for finish management and tool deflection minimization. I would shoot for .0000" taper over 12".
Even brand new machines need the taper confirmation. You could see from the video how much an engine lathe twists, crowns and sags. Shipping and rigging is not kind to maintaining factory adjustments.
Ideal leveling methods would have included anchor bolts. Anchor bolts allow down pressure that machine weight cannot provide. Machine design mandates that anchor placement must be done before the machine is set in place. Aligning over anchors set in concrete is a challenge. Adam placed this machine by himself with a jib crane. He would have really frustrated himself lowering over preset anchor bolts. An alternative is to core drill the floor, remove the core and set J bolts loosely in the hold down holes. Place the machine with the J bolts dangling in the holes. Set grout to secure the J bolts. I only bothered with this step a few times, and I have set up hundreds of machines. The haters will point out that Adam straddled a floor control joint. This is unwise, but I managed machine tool set up for 34 years and found that we suffered virtually no machine tolerance issues in our parts coming off machines that straddled control joints. Adam already explained that he straddled the control joint to allow room for a knee mill under his jib hoist. Sometimes we have to make compromises. His machine is too close to the wall for OSHA and NEC required workspace, but he squeezed this dimension for the same space constraints.
I demand best practices. But life forces compromises. I have some tricks that I would have pulled out if I did this job, but high precision is never perfect in reality. Adam admitted using 1-2-3 blocks is less than perfect for parallels to straddle the V way. I agree, but Adam reduced his error by confirming 2" dimensional accuracy. He had no provision to inspect squareness and flatness, but I agree that his technique with the blocks was pretty good. If you employ parallels to bridge the V way, consider using 2 precision levels, one on each end. Then you don't introduce error by moving parallels and levels.
Old lathes didn't have reliable flat ground surfaces to set the level like Adam's new machine. This factory ground flat and parallel surface is very handy for lathe setup. The cross slide rides on the carriage on the flat and V ways. Since twist, crowning and sagging are your machining accuracy enemies, all can be inspected simultaneously.
Hunt on chuck runout compensation... Old chuck OD's we're not trustworthy for indicating surfaces. OD was not always true to chuck centerline. This was regarded as a non critical surface and machining complexity allowed for machining tolerance. The chuck face was more reliable, but indicating here meant interrupted surface for the chuck jaw slots. Modern machining allows for the non critical chuck OD to be machined true to the spindle mounting surface and enables the chuck OD to be a reference surface. This manufacturing improvement enormously improved my life.
THE MAN!!!!! your most definitely an inspiration.
I´m so jelous of you right now. It´s always awesome to have a brand new machine and be the first one using it. Great content as always Adam :)
Loving the new lathe can't wait to see it cut.
Almost forgot. You're quality of this video is the best I have ever seen. The sound was also very good. I don't know if you changed your equipment or not but the quality was very noticeable. Good show.
Awesome video. I’ll be putting this advice into action soon.
From Newzealand 🇳🇿🇳🇿🇮🇳🇮🇳What a Beautiful Explanation Bro We Love It✌
As you say. For the money of a new 2.5 " bore lathe. That is probably the best out there. I wish I had extra money. I would get one. As people saying it will not last. For what you and I are doing with it. Plus being smart and not abusing the machine. It will last our lifetime. So happy you two are going to have a very NICE shop together. Funny how happy she was to see it. Adam you must have done your Happy dance off air. lol.
That was fun! Thanks for showing it! Glad it went well. Seems like your measurements are even more precise than all the little gotcha's that will creep in over time!
Always enjoyable to watch a master at work!
You might want to wipe your nose after saying all that.....and afterwards pass me a tissue because I agree with you it is pretty cool 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
Oh, where were you looking ? ;)
Thanks for sharing that. That was a very good video to be watching. Learned a lot from it.
Adam, fantastic job leveling in the Precision Matthews, I just finished un packing and leveling in a new LeBlond RKL-1340G and it it looks exactly the same as the PM just different paint job.! Any way, I found the easiest way to get that rust inhibitor wax off is copious amounts of mineral spirits, brass o-ring picks and a brass scraper, I made one out of a piece of 1x1/4 flat bar.
Ah wonderful! Another great video from an awesome chip maker!
Congrats on the new lathe. May your ground be stable.
YES! An Abom production again.
Great information about how to level the lathe.
That machine looks well made. I hope it is a good powerful and accurate machine because I like seeing you make some big cuts sometimes lol.
Enjoyed the episode and the information. Keep em coming.
He's got other lathes to hammer with big cuts - he should use this lathe as little as possible to preserve its accuracy. As someone said in a previous episode - he should fit an hour meter to the motor wiring to record how much the machine is used - to plan a maintenance schedule. Had the bed not been somewhat prelubed, he'll have put a year's worth of wear on the bed already. He's talking of cleaning all the protective gunge off it. I'd have squirted oil all over it first.
Looking good 👍 excited to see how it performs power vise and accuracy 👍😊
Best regards
Nice going, look forward to seeing it in action.
If you go to an art suply store you can find brushes in a variety of sizes including very small, these make it easy to put a small dab of anti-seize acuratly in a small area.
I love this channel , you're living the life I can only dream of.
The foam knee pads are at Harbor Freight now, great for the garden as well!
Well done! Have fun with your new toy! Greetings from Dresden (Germany)!
Looks like an awesome lathe can’t wait to se it cut also
"I know that would be the proper way to use this but..." hahahahahahaha!!! I could not have related to you on that more! I work on cars and use that stuff often and I'm here to say it's a love hate relationship. I swear I've noticed a spot of that on my face in the morning 3 days after I've used it but it has also saved me so much time when maintaining things I've already worked on. Good show sir, I really enjoy your attention to detail, thanks for sharing.
If I ever would want a sponsor for anything, it would be CRC 👌
Thanks Adam, my PM-1440GT just arrived today! I made my leveling pads out of aluminum.
hmm i dont a bout that you really want steel for them and not aluminum im like adam i use steel and i been moving and setting up machines for years
Aluminum has been just fine on my 4000 pound Monarch, they should be okay on this 1500 pound lathe. I shouldn’t have to worry about corrosion either.
More great content Adam.
I am well familiar, as I am sure you are, and many viewers are, with backlash in older machines.
Could you show us just how much backlash there is in your wonderful new machine in its "as new" condition in a video some time?
I think it would be fascinating to see/compare , especially with your older machines, just how much backlash there is. We are all spoiled with DRO units. The old guys had to deal with backlash and dials to hit the numbers. Hats off to them.
It would also be great to see you align head and tail stocks, do some test cuts on the new machine, your professional and methodical approach would make it fascinating.
I was going mad yesterday with the four levelling feet on the headstock. Thanks for the video, I'll do the "middle" two levelling and just barely touch the outer ones.
Man, that's exciting! I bet it feels like forever waiting on the electrician. Hope to get a mill and lathe from PM someday...
I understand your excitement for the new machine, i wanted to see you finish up the other lathe first and makes some chips off that first. Keep up the video's.
Beautiful machine my friend.
That must be a very well built machine for the leveling process to have gone so smoothly.
03:04 --getting it all over your hands IS the correct way to use anti-sieze. I've never been able to not have that happen. 😆
Hands, shirt, face...the dog. Everything is fair game for anti-sieze.
The ceiling is never spared with me
I think that's what he said. :)
So satisfying watching this 👍
Adam you need to TRAM your toolbox mat, it's not flat enough. LUL great video man, appreciate all the info you provide to the community with every video, always something to learn mate.
Adam, you are talking about the runoff of the coolant and that is why you don't set the machine exactly level. But isn't runoff of the coolant not taken into account in the machine? I know absolutely nothing about lathes, but this made me wonder?
I love your attention to detail, in everything that you do. Paul
I’m not a machinist so help me understand why you go thru all the trouble of a precision level process and not make it level? So the flood coolant flows toward the tail stock. Also makes you wonder why the casting or maybe the flood coolant pan doesn’t have a tilt toward the tail stock built in. I welcome opinions from the machinists reading this. Thanks.
Agree w u. Manufacturer should take care of drainage.
More than likely there is already proper drainage and tilting should not be necessary especially considering the price. However maybe he's done some research and thats the prevailing wisdom. Also, the most important part was the second half where he is taking the twist out of the ways which will result in tapers and bad cuts. Quite possibly the first half was not really needed.
That's not why he's leveling it at a tilt. It's so fluid doesn't travel along the part being machined and going through the chuck and running on the floor.
Sweet! Awesome machine!
Nice video Adam. Next step... put a piece of precision ground material in a collet at the head stock and adjust out the flex/nod with the 4 jack bolts under that end. Picture the axis of the spindle being level in the same plane as the ways. TOT has some good details on that.
Yes, I too would like to see a video on headstock alignment.
awesome, I go by you 4 times a day thats me beeping the horn